Sayid says Naomi's phone was far advanced than anything he'd seen before. It sort of looked like a next generation IPhone... of course IPhones haven't even come out yet and it's 2007.

For the sake of argument, if time in the outside world is moving differently than on the Island, then could this be the writers way of saying that if one were to get off the Island now, instead of 90 days passing in actuality something like nine years have passed?

I definitely think that was hinted at tonight.

It occurs to me that the plane they found in the water, the one that is supposed to fl. 815, might not even be planted. Maybe another plane did crash, but they thought it was fl. 815, found after all this time (or somthing).

Plus if they ever decide to bring Walt back that could explain how he aged so fast.

I'm not so sure though. Desmond has been on the island for over 3 years, and when they showed Penny off-island in LTDA she didn't seem to age that much.

Interesting stuff though, you could be right!

As far as sat phones go, it's not that advanced. They're actually about that size, and any advancements for such a device would be to make it smaller. And the reason for that size is the amount of components necessary to make the device work. It would be more DSP and microprocessor controlled than anything most of us have seen, and certainly what Sayid had seen in his days in Iraq. We heard someone say a spoiler that she'd have something that she shouldn't have, and while that may or may not have been the phone (it could also have been the copy of the Des/Pen pic), it's just not that advanced to be something that would be a stretch. Remember, Sayid's job in the Republican Guard was as a communications officer, and he may have had to repair some radio equipment, but the gear used by Iraq was nothing special when it came to technology. I have a friend who did signal interception during the first Gulf War, and he's talked about how easy it was to listen to and disrupt their communications.

As far as sat phones go, it's not that advanced. ... what Sayid had seen in his days in Iraq. ... Remember, he [ Sayid] may have had to repair some radio equipment, but the gear used by Iraq was nothing special when it came to technology.

The above is my edit to save some space.

If I had to vote on whether the phone is advanced or whether a hint of lost time... I'd vote an advanced phone. In fact, I would always vote for something if it was running against "lost time." We have never ever had even a hint or foreshadowing of "lost time." Furthermore, the "lost time theory" always gets blown out of the water by the next epsiode.

Sayid says Naomi's phone was far advanced than anything he'd seen before. It sort of looked like a next generation IPhone... of course IPhones haven't even come out yet and it's 2007.

For the sake of argument, if time in the outside world is moving differently than on the Island, then could this be the writers way of saying that if one were to get off the Island now, instead of 90 days passing in actuality something like nine years have passed?

Exactly what I've been saying... read this thread: Healing, Time & What the hell did I stumble on to??!! (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77577)

I just took the phone comment to mean that Penny has hired some super expensive cutting edge high tech mercenaries to find Desmond. All their equipment is top notch and state of the art. She has the dough to do it, as we all know.

With enough time and money you can find anybody.

If you've been following my theory (under the post "Healing, Time & What the Hell did I stumble on to??!! (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77577)), I have been really delving into the possibilities of a difference in the passage of time on and off-island, and have given many tidbits of information to support the theory. It's worth checking out (if he doesn't say so himself).

Tonight's episode provided more support. Much attention was paid to GPS (Global Positioning System) and a satellite phone. Some folks are thinking because of Sayid's comments about the phone being more advanced than anything he'd seen, that it may be evidence of off-island being years ahead of on-island time. Maybe - maybe not - but here are some other interesting points that support my theory gleaned from this ep:

THE SATELLITE PHONE
Sayid talks about something interfering with the signal - so much so that not a single channel could be found.

Signals at terrestrial receivers tend to be relatively weak, so it is easy for other sources of electromagnetic radiation to overpower the receiver, making acquiring and tracking the satellite signals difficult or impossible.

This backs up the idea that the island may be or maybe surrounded by a large electromagnetic field, causing increased localized gravity, causing gravitational time dilation.

THE GPS
Naomi says that she was given coordinates by Penny which she followed with a GPS. But that when she arrived at the coordinates, there was nothing there. Three days later, the clouds opened up and there was the island -- at which point, the helicopter began to break apart and come down.

A Global Positioning Systems' functionality/accuracy is 100% based on making adjustments to it's computer program clock to make corrections for the effects of both special relativity (The Twin Paradox/General Time Dilation) and general relativity (Gravitational Time Dilation).

Another DARPA Connection
If you read my original post, you read the connections I made in relation to a government agency called 'DARPA' (which I am equating to DHARMA) Here is additional info regarding DARPA & GPS: DARPA has been involved in GPS since the 1980s, with the Handheld GPS Receiver program nicknamed "Virginia Slims." It was the first true handheld GPS Receiver, and is the basis for most of the receivers used by the military today.

Again, this all will make sense if you check out the full post.

This backs up the idea that the island may be or maybe surrounded by a large electromagnetic field, causing increased localized gravity, causing gravitational time dilation.

Except that the gravity required to do that would turn them all into extrodinarily tiny spots of grease.

Think Time Riff. A frequency. Time reached by being at the right location at the right time. The island is not on a map. Its located in a time riff.

Remember Juliet going on a rough ride.

Except that the gravity required to do that would turn them all into extrodinarily tiny spots of grease.

Strong electromagnetic fields that could ionize and deflect interstellar matter has been suggested as one way to avoid these potentially disastrous consequences.

Maybe the phone was some kind of crazy mockup not meant to work properly....re-enforcing the idea that there was no one out there looking for them or even possible to make contact if so.

my only issue with the "lost time" theories is, if it has been longer than 90 days and the "lost time" theories are true, when Hurley told her (or anyone at this point since she now knows they are from flight 815) they were on the flight, wouldn't she have said something like "but that flight crashed years (or many months, whatever/whenever) ago"- making some comment about it being a long time since 815 crashed, not just 90 days??

well, why would she say something about the Losties being there so long if Desmond has been there ten times as long as they have. regardless of how time is flowing, the person she was sent for has been there much longer than the 815ers, so why would she find it any more odd that they were there than Desmond being there?

and PapaThor, how can you possibly say there has been no evidence of timeshifting?! from the Mittelos anagram, to the SAT phone comment to DESMOND GOING BACK IN TIME!!!!!!! i think there have been plenty of clues about time shifting, whether or not one choopses to believe them is another story.

finally, theirisnospoon, while i believe in the timeshifting theory, and have done a lot of reading in the area of general and special relativity and their effects on time, i have never heard of electromagnatism being a solution to the crushing tidal forces one would experience in a strong enough gravitational field to cause time-dilation, etc. do you have any source for that statement?

Signals at terrestrial receivers tend to be relatively weak, so it is easy for other sources of electromagnetic radiation to overpower the receiver, making acquiring and tracking the satellite signals difficult or impossible.

This backs up the idea that the island may be or maybe surrounded by a large electromagnetic field, causing increased localized gravity, causing gravitational time dilation.

Or, in the spirit of KISS, there is a 'simple' jamming device somewhere in the vicinity causing Sayid not to be able to pick up a signal. This negates your need for the island to be all EMF surrounded and whatnot.

If the island is indeed inside of a field of "slow" time when compared to the outside world, Cooper/Sawyer would have aged far more than he appeared to have. Yet he looked pretty much like he was four to five years older than the last time time we saw him (throwing Locke out the window).

Time travel/warp has not been sufficiently "proven" by evidence from the show. It has been hinted at, winked at, and guessed at ... but not definitely proven.

I am a "time travel/warp" unbeliever. :undecide:

Without meaning to sound rude or anything, -- go read my extensive post on this theory (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77577) -- all of these questions are addressed and cited there. I'll just be repeating myself here. Not only that, but how I present my support for this theory is logically threaded following my discovery during researching and that provides alot of my basis for the theory.

theirisnospoon, while i believe in the timeshifting theory, and have done a lot of reading in the area of general and special relativity and their effects on time, i have never heard of electromagnatism being a solution to the crushing tidal forces one would experience in a strong enough gravitational field to cause time-dilation, etc. do you have any source for that statement?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_dilation (under heading "Time Dilation & Space Flight')
It states that 'Strong Electromagnetic Fields have been suggested...'as one way to deflect these consequences'.

Obviously - this is not proven. It is all theory. But as TPTB have stated -- the mysteries of the show will be either based on Science or 'psuedo-science'. The key words here are based on. This opens the door to using scientific theories to explain the mysteries of LOST.
100%
Or, in the spirit of KISS, there is a 'simple' jamming device somewhere in the vicinity causing Sayid not to be able to pick up a signal. This negates your need for the island to be all EMF surrounded and whatnot.

How is a 'simple' jamming device that causes satellite interference -- any more simple than a electromagnetic interference? Especially since any jamming device (natural or man-made) is going to use radio waves, microwaves, infrared, optical, ultraviolet, X-rays, or gamma-rays -- which are all Electromagnetic Waves?

Maybe the time anomaly only started when we had our purple sky.

Maybe the time anomaly only started when we had our purple sky.

It's possible, but I don't think so. There are many other seemingly related issues on the island that seem to pre-date the Losties arrival on the island. Including, just as an example -- Juliet's passed out travel to the island via a 'bumpy submarine ride' in the care of Mittelos (Lost Time).

Spoon, I just went through your other postings ... still not able to drink the kool-aid :undecide:

Spoon, I just went through your other postings ... still not able to drink the kool-aid :undecide:
Ok. Thanks for letting me know. I'll be sure to take your name off the list.

Sayid says Naomi's phone was far advanced than anything he'd seen before. It sort of looked like a next generation IPhone... of course IPhones haven't even come out yet and it's 2007.

For the sake of argument, if time in the outside world is moving differently than on the Island, then could this be the writers way of saying that if one were to get off the Island now, instead of 90 days passing in actuality something like nine years have passed?

Sounds like Avalon from Disney's Gargoyles.

I believe it.

I vote Advanced.

There is another thing that rubs me the wrong way concerning the "slow time on the island" theory.

When the show ends -I mean the very last season of LOST- and your assumption is that time goes faster in the "real world" where would the happy end fit into? If we assume that the big pay-off at the end will be the reunion of the Losties with their families and friends, which would make sense for this show and the way "Hollywood"/Disney works, then this "slow time" thing would make this kind of happy end impossible:
Hurley's mum and dad would most likely be dead, Penny would be an old woman and just everyone would be too old to make the LOST fan believe that they and our Losties could live happily ever after.
It just would make no sense.

I really like this theory though, but it complicates matters, especially happy ends.

There is another thing that rubs me the wrong way concerning the "slow time on the island" theory.

When the show ends -I mean the very last season of LOST- and your assumption is that time goes faster in the "real world" where would the happy end fit into? If we assume that the big pay-off at the end will be the reunion of the Losties with their families and friends, which would make sense for this show and the way "Hollywood"/Disney works, then this "slow time" thing would make this kind of happy end impossible:
Hurley's mum and dad would most likely be dead, Penny would be an old woman and just everyone would be too old to make the LOST fan believe that they and our Losties could live happily ever after. It just would make no sense.

I really like this theory though, but it complicates matters, especially happy ends.

Well, 1st of all, it is not actually "slow time", and don't really want to re-re-explain it again for the 100th time. If you'd like to understand the theory of time dilation, read this post (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=77577).

2nd, the time difference would most likely not be that large. My theory is that the on-island/off-island time difference is equivalent to on-island/real life. In other words: the plane crashed Sept 22, 2004. The series started on Sept 22, 2004. We, the viewers, have been watching the show for just about 2 years and 8 months. In that time, we have watched as approx. 90 days have passed on the island, which equates to about 1 year of real life time = 1 month on-island time. Assuming the series ends around May 7, 2009, then we will have been watching the show for approx. 4 years and 8 months, while only 5 months will have passed on the island. How much have you, your parents or your friends aged since LOST began? Your answer would be the same for the friends and family of the Losties. (P.S. This makes perfect sense in terms of the actor who plays Walt coming back and having aged exactly to this equation.) Could this be the big clue everyone supposedly missed from the pilot episode?

3rd, TPTB have stated that the end of the series will be bittersweet, not 'happy'. Besides which, a happily ever after ending would be unrealistic and out of sync with the show's mood and themes. This is not a "happy" show or a happy premise. All of these people have had very difficult times in their lives prior to getting on to the island -- and many don't really have much to go home to. They have survived (so far) a major air disaster, witnessed many gruesome (and not-so-gruesome) deaths during the crash and on the island of both strangers and friends, been held captive, tortured, who knows what else, etc, etc. etc... Those who survive at the end will have lived thru extraordinarily difficult situations and times (in addition to the things they had already lived thru prior to the island) -- and who knows what the outcomes will be, but if Kate survives - will she be re-arrested? Will Rose's cancer overcome her? Will Locke be re-paralyzed? Etc... So, i think that the kind of ending we can expect, that will fit with the shows mood and themes is one of hope.

Please forgive the geeky reference, (wait... what am I saying?... this is a board for obsessive fans of a TV show...nevermind) -- but for Star Wars fans (like the creators & writers of LOST), think - the end of Episode III. Yes, it's sad that Anakin went completely to the dark side, became Vader, Padme died, the Jedi have been almost completely wiped out... but... there are the twin Skywalkers... who represent the title of Episode IV - 'A New Hope'. It is a bittersweet ending, because we have just seen all of the bad things that have happened to all of the good guys, and we know what the dark side has in store for the galaxy in the years ahead... but we also know that the children just born will eventually defeat the dark side.

(Ok. My Star Wars comparisons are done now. I'm gonna go get back to my Dungeons & Dragons game, already in progress.)

Time cannot be different on the island vs. off the island. The first proof is when Juliet sees the monitors with her sister's kid. This occurrs on the day the plane crashes, the same day that Juliet says marks the third year of being on the island. She sees the date on the monitors and does not remark that it is not normal. If time flowed differently on the island, she would have been like, "Hey, why the hell is it ______ year, I've only been here three years!" This did not happen. We know that this date is the real date in the outside world, since that is when the plane crashed, on-island and off-island.
The second example is that Naomi said nothing about a time difference when she came to the island.

There you have it, time does not flow differently on the island. Case closed. Time lost or lost time refers to something else.

Time cannot be different on the island vs. off the island. The first proof is when Juliet sees the monitors with her sister's kid. This occurrs on the day the plane crashes, the same day that Juliet says marks the third year of being on the island. She sees the date on the monitors and does not remark that it is not normal. If time flowed differently on the island, she would have been like, "Hey, why the hell is it ______ year, I've only been here three years!" This did not happen. We know that this date is the real date in the outside world, since that is when the plane crashed, on-island and off-island.
The second example is that Naomi said nothing about a time difference when she came to the island.

There you have it, time does not flow differently on the island. Case closed. Time lost or lost time refers to something else.

Wow. Case closed, eh? Thanks, JJ Darleton! That's saying alot of absolutes about alot of things that have not absolutely been said.

1) If something hasn't been said, that is more reason to suspect it. I thought the fact that Naomi didn't mention how long it had been since the crash made it all the more curious. She also (as far as we know) has no reason at this point to suspect that time is any different on the island... she's only been there for one day and it hasn't been brought up (as far as we know).

2) We have no way of knowing at this point (especially knowing how Ben manipulates everything) that the video Juliet was shown was live or set-up with a fake newspaper or what. We just don't know.

3) Damn it is SOOOOO frustrating when people think in absolutes with stuff on this show (or in real life). If you have been paying attention, you will see that nothing has yet been explained. And things that we think have been explained have not even been close to being explained. There are 2 seasons left of this show. Do you really believe they are going to give us the conclusive answers now? So.... try to let go of your absolutes... and don't believe everything Ben tells you - it might allow you to come up with some really cool theories, which you'll just have to wait till the end to see if they're true, like the rest of us who aren't TPTB.

I had a long logical explanation typed up, then for some reason my browser logged me out and I lost it all.

Anyway, if Juliet's timeline is bookended by her arrival at a date three years prior to the crash and the crash which is known to happen at the date given on the newspaper and we know this date to be the real date of the crash, how could the video have been faked?

Like I suggested earlier:

Maybe the time anomaly only started when the sky turned purple.

Not saying that I believe the time-warp theory, but if it is part of the story, then it would make sense that it started when the hatch blew-up, not when Juliet or the Losties got to the island.

I didn't disagree with you, Spoon. I don't believe in a time discrepancy either. Just telling you guys another reason why this time theory people have is unlikely.

I just don't theorise much anymore. The authors are always able to rewrite the storyline as soon as they see that the fans got wind of an answer to a mystery or are annoyed of something (Nikki/Paulo...). And in the end I believe it all will be the absolute opposite of what we suspect anyway.

Anyway, if Juliet's timeline is bookended by her arrival at a date three years prior to the crash and the crash which is known to happen at the date given on the newspaper and we know this date to be the real date of the crash, how could the video have been faked?

Sorry. I just don't understand your question. You're asking how could a video be faked? How could a newspaper have a fake date printed on it? How could the video or the newspaper be faked given that it happened on the day of the plane crash? What?! Why wouldn't it be possible? How does that make sense? Are you assuming then, that there was no fore-planning on Ben's (or someone else unseen's) part in conning, er... um, showing Juliet the video of her sister?

Here is a Transcript from "One of Us":

[Juliet is in her house with the book club, then the ground shakes and everyone runs outside. They watch as the plane crashes.]
BEN: Goodwin. Ethan. There might actually be survivors. And you're one of them, a passenger, you're in shock. Listen, learn, don't get involved. I want lists in three days. Go! [to Juliet] So I guess I'm out of the book club.
[Juliet moves to go]
BEN: Juliet. Juliet! I was looking for you this morning. You and I need to talk.
JULIET: Now?
BEN: We' have some time. It's important. Take a walk with me.

[they walk to the flame station, where Ben shows the Juliet her sister]
--------------------

So, Ben was looking for Juliet in the morning - before the crash - to show her this 'video feed' of her sister. Which means that he already had known he was going to show it to her prior to the crash - which means that he had plenty of time to pre-meditate and plan his con.

I really enjoy your posts "thereisnospoon". I've read the links you provided, and I agree, largely, with your observations.

Thanks for all the hard work!

I really enjoy your posts "thereisnospoon". I've read the links you provided, and I agree, largely, with your observations.

Thanks for all the hard work!

Thanks, Dimple!

1DimpleOnly + 1FreckleOnly = 2Dreckles? 2Frimples?

1DimpleOnly + 1FreckleOnly = 2Dreckles? 2Frimples?

:74happy:

OT - That's funny, my husband only has one dimple and he's very self concious about it. I told him it was cute but ...

I just wanted to stop in and say that I like this time theory, I am not 100% down with it yet, but I have to admit it had occurred to me in the first season and I have never fully discarded it. I am not good with the scientific reasons why it could or could not be true but it's fascinating to read them. I am familiar with the twin paradox but I had forgotten it until it was brought up here.

I also think that the time dilation wouldn't be noticeable unless they had something to compare with. I am going with the theory of relativity on this one.

I have also been following your time healing thread spoon

I have also been following your time healing thread spoon

Thank you, kindly. Glad it is provoking some thought. That is what makes this show what it is -- One of the very few television series in the brief history of time that actually makes you think.

Yes spoon (mind if I call you spoon), that's what I love about this show. I haven't had a thought provoking show since the X-files.

Sayid says Naomi's phone was far advanced than anything he'd seen before. It sort of looked like a next generation IPhone... of course IPhones haven't even come out yet and it's 2007.

For the sake of argument, if time in the outside world is moving differently than on the Island, then could this be the writers way of saying that if one were to get off the Island now, instead of 90 days passing in actuality something like nine years have passed?

Then i think she would have intimated at that - " But that was years ago " etc.

However, we know from many previous experiences that when it comes to reason and logic, Lost is not the place to look.

Then i think she would have intimated at that - " But that was years ago " etc.I think that when something goes unsaid that you fully expect to be said in some way, that it is extremely suspicious. The fact that Naomi did not specifiy any time or date, nor did Cooper when he mentioned Locke dying in a plane crash -- I think it's weird. I'm not saying that it is proof of anything, but like you - yes, I would think that she would have said something about time, whether it was years, months or days ago...but she didn't... to me, that's a reason to be curious.

However, we know from many previous experiences that when it comes to reason and logic, Lost is not the place to look.I couldn't disagree more - one of the brilliant things about LOST is that it is presented in a way that gives the impression that things are occurring without reason or logic -- but in all actuality, I believe that everything has a reasonable and logical explanation. It's interesting, and maybe TMI for this board or conversation, but yesterday I met an artist who had shown me his paintings and they were fascinating. They were large colorful splotches on a white canvas. The splotches looked completely chaotic and undeliberate - like you would expect a splotch to look if paint were dripped from a brush onto the canvas. But when I looked closer, the splotches were all outlined with a solid, black line, and within the spoltches were other tiny solid lines and colors that broke up the splotch into something like fractals. So, in fact, this splotch that appeared so amazingly undeliberate and 'without reason' at first first glance, had actually been incredibly and painstakingly created, quite deliberately - line by line in excruciating detail.

I think we can expect the same from the artists behind LOST.

I was just rewatching the episode and noticed something. When sayid is fixing the phone and scans for channels the phone shows radar/beacon rings on the world map. It appears these rings are coming from the Portland, OR area where Mittelos Bioscience is located.

I was just rewatching the episode and noticed something. When sayid is fixing the phone and scans for channels the phone shows radar/beacon rings on the world map. It appears these rings are coming from the Portland, OR area where Mittelos Bioscience is located.
Yes, I can see that and I think it has been mentioned on other threads - but not sure what other people have said about it. My feeling on this is that assuming the island is not visible to satellites/GPS, then the phone would not 'know' where it, itself, is - and might then default to it's default 'home' location or last known location - which could be Portland, but I'm not sure why it would be. Although Richard had originally claimed that Mittelos was located just outside of Portland, he later admitted that was not "really" where it was at all, hence "Not in Portland".

I think that when something goes unsaid that you fully expect to be said in some way, that it is extremely suspicious. The fact that Naomi did not specifiy any time or date, nor did Cooper when he mentioned Locke dying in a plane crash -- I think it's weird. I'm not saying that it is proof of anything, but like you - yes, I would think that she would have said something about time, whether it was years, months or days ago...but she didn't... to me, that's a reason to be curious.


I agree, even if it was only three months ago but then the writers know we are debating the whole time thing so probably did it on purpose. Maybe they are trying to string this time theory along...

I think we can expect the same from the artists behind LOST.

I agree, Darlton and Abrams had originally said they planned out the show for about 5 seasons and no longer if they were granted that amount of time so I'm sure it will all make sense eventually. :biggrin:

I was just rewatching the episode and noticed something. When sayid is fixing the phone and scans for channels the phone shows radar/beacon rings on the world map. It appears these rings are coming from the Portland, OR area where Mittelos Bioscience is located.

I thought it looked like the origin of the circles was Los Angeles, but I'm sure I'll watch it again :)

But anyway, there's been a lot of Lost Time / Time Travel hate on this thread, which is funny, because without it, LOST becomes more and more comparable to Deperate Housewives, which it most definitely isn't. Damon's even said in the podcast that aired after FBYE that he thinks what happened to Desomond post-failsafe really did happen.

Alpert, at the airport where he and Ethan meet Juliet in One of Us, hints further at a time anomaly when he tells Juliet she'll be surprised at how time flies once you're [on the Island]. That's in addition to Mittelos being an anagram for Lost Time, which was also discussed by Damon and Carlton in the podcast after Not In Portland.

In a more recent podcast, TPTB seemed to favor a pseudoscientific explanation over a truly scientific explanation for what goes on on the Island.

When Sayid gets his hands on Naomi's phone, he says he's never seen anything "as sophisticated." But what comes first, advancement or sophistication? Don't forget the sonic fence, either. It seems fairly advanced for the time period. I haven't seen anything in Popular Science about practical applications of a sonic defense system, the modern equivalent being a submarine ping to repel swimmers. Not so sophisticated, and generally illegal.

There's also the mention of finding Flight 815 in an ocean trench 4 miles deep. Not only that, but they sent little robots with cameras down to the wreckage, to make sure everyone was dead? 4 miles underwater? That's pretty deep, and Naomi didn't say submersibles, she said robots... How long would it take to find a missing plane in a trench four miles beneath the ocean? Then how long would it take to organize a team to go check it out with little robots? Probably a little more than three months...

I thought it looked like the origin of the circles was Los Angeles, but I'm sure I'll watch it again :)It is generally over the western US, but there is a small dot right around Portland. But, again... I think it is irrelevant as to the location of the island -- as a Satellite would not be able to pinpoint the phone's location. It might be relevant to the location where Naomi has come from or whomever gave her the phone.

Damon's even said in the podcast that aired after FBYE that he thinks what happened to Desmond post-failsafe really did happen.That's weird that Damon would say that he "thinks" what happened really happened. Um, he knows. And in my mind, even before this statement, and even given my time-theories, I don't think Desmond really traveled backwards in time... and with Damon saying this, it makes me feel that way even more. If he had made an absolute statement, like "yes, what we saw happen to Desmond really did happen" - then I would believe it. But the way you are saying he said it... that sounds like misleading to me.

In a more recent podcast, TPTB seemed to favor a pseudoscientific explanation over a truly scientific explanation for what goes on on the Island.I've mentioned this many times -- and I think that pseudo-science is really going to mean taking known science and stretching it... taking unproven scientific theories and using them as if they are proven... or using new science on the fringe and making it useable/practical. For example: The sophisticated Sat. phone, the sonic defense system (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonic_weaponry) (which has been tested and used in various forms by the govt since the 1950's), deep sea submersible robots (http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4212397.html), nanotech, and who knows what else.

Keep in mind, that the Dharma Initiative and the Hanso Foundation both are/were all about researching technology on the very cutting edge of science. From the Hanso Foundation website: "The Hanso Foundation stands at the vanguard of social and scientific research for the advancement of the human race." All of those projects that we've read about on the Hanso website or heard about on the show - are all based on actual fields of scientific research (mentioned on the Orientation film: meteorology, psychology, parapsychology, zoology, electromagnetism). So I do not think it would be too far fetched to make the leap from these, and other, real fields of study and research to exploring what that research may have yielded.

I've been slowly re-watching season 1 and in house of the rising sun, when mike is giving the watch back to jin he says I lost mine and thought why let a $20 000 watch go to waste, but (and this is the important part) Time doesn't matter on a damn Island. I'm really starting to believe TPTB having been planning it all from the begining, they already have the ending planned out.

That's weird that Damon would say that he "thinks" what happened really happened. Um, he knows. And in my mind, even before this statement, and even given my time-theories, I don't think Desmond really traveled backwards in time... and with Damon saying this, it makes me feel that way even more. If he had made an absolute statement, like "yes, what we saw happen to Desmond really did happen" - then I would believe it. But the way you are saying he said it... that sounds like misleading to me.



After listening to every podcast this season, I'm of the opinion that people who think TPTB make intentional misleading remarks, really aren't listening to the podcast.

I'm a supporter of the alternate timelines theories, so I don't believe Naomi is from the future. SHe is from a parallel timeline to the one the losties are stuck on. The reason why the phone is so advance might be because it was especifically designed (by Widmore) to allow communications between different timelines.

I'm a supporter of the alternate timelines theories, so I don't believe Naomi is from the future. SHe is from a parallel timeline to the one the losties are stuck on. The reason why the phone is so advance might be because it was especifically designed (by Widmore) to allow communications between different timelines.But if that were true, then it would make sense that it would have worked.

I'm a supporter of the alternate timelines theories, so I don't believe Naomi is from the future. SHe is from a parallel timeline to the one the losties are stuck on. The reason why the phone is so advance might be because it was especifically designed (by Widmore) to allow communications between different timelines.

I dig this idea, too Fierro. Not necessarily that the phone communicated between alternate timelines (dimensions), but maybe that the "freighter" that's 80 miles off shore is able to move between timelines, and it is not native to the one it is currently in, nor to the Island (if the Island resides within its own timeline/dimension. This is why the phone doesn't work on the Island - not because of conventional interference from a local source, but because it was designed in an alternate timeline, to link with satelites from an alternate timeline, using software written in an alternate timeline, etc...

If you wanted to study practical applications of dimensional research, or even transcend dimensions or travel thru time, the vast open waters of the Pacific would offer a ship all the privacy it needs to vanish, reappear in a parallel universe, and keep the agenda a secret.

After listening to every podcast this season, I'm of the opinion that people who think TPTB make intentional misleading remarks, really aren't listening to the podcast.I hear you... and agree 95%. In fact, I have constantly defended the things that TPTB have said as things we should take to heart -- because they are not going to outright lie about things over and over and over again -- like about them being dead/in purgatory. Most of those types of things I've heard them say have been fairly absolute statements. "They're not dead." "They're not in purgatory." There are no clones."

However, I do not think it is past them to mislead or to lead slightly here and there, with less absolute statements. Your comment was the 1st thing I've heard of that I could point to and say... yeah... I dunno, that sounds like a mislead. Damon saying "I think" that's what happened? It's very non-committal and doesn't hold him to the statement - the way that "They're not dead" does.

But if that were true, then it would make sense that it would have worked.
Well, perhaps it was a prototype. How many times have they used a interdimensional radio phone?;) Or, there could be some other factor interfering with the radiowaves that the designers didn't think about.
I would like to see Naomi using that phone...

Well, perhaps it was a prototype. How many times have they used a interdimensional radio phone?;) Or, there could be some other factor interfering with the radiowaves that the designers didn't think about. I would like to see Naomi using that phone...Sure. I guess. But... it's not that I'm not into complex answers to the mysteries on the show... but within the complex answers should be some bit of logical simplicity. I mean, if TPTB intended for this phone to be an interdimensional (which by the way, I'm not really into that theory... but I'll work with you here) phone, why have there be a design flaw in it?

From a creative standpoint... you can ask an audience to suspend their disbelief of things, but the more complex layers and reasons/excuses you add to it, it becomes less and less believable - and you lose credibility with an audience expecting answers within a realm of reality (only because TPTB have stated that is what we should expect). So, while there may not be a one answer fits all solution to everything, it is far more believable than explaining away each anomaly with a different excuse.

So, for example: (these are only examples - please save your time - don't disect them here - do it in a different more appropriate thread)

#1) An intensely highly charged electromagnetic field increases localized geomagnetic gravity on and around the island. This affects: compass misreads, satelite/GPS errors - making it virtually invisible to the 'outside world', the failure and break up of vehicles traveling within it's reach, and enough radiation to both cure and cause cancerous tumors, birth mutations such as being born with 4 toes, and enough magnetism to make a paralyzed man walk; and causes gravitational time dilation which has the effect of the time off-island passing faster than on-island - which can explain the nature of the perceived fast healing.

or #2) There are multiple dimensions. Naomi is from the other dimension. She is traveling with a phone that is designed to be used between the dimensions... but it doesn't work because it's a prototype so it has issues the designers didn't consider? Whaaa? How and why would the writers get that information out? What about the multiple dimensions causes compass problems, healing, plane crashes, etc...?

I'm not asking you to answer that -- because these are just examples -- I'm more pointing out that it doesn't make sense from a creative standpoint for there to be a different far-reaching explanation for every single anomaly.

I think that when something goes unsaid that you fully expect to be said in some way, that it is extremely suspicious. The fact that Naomi did not specifiy any time or date, nor did Cooper when he mentioned Locke dying in a plane crash -- I think it's weird. I'm not saying that it is proof of anything, but like you - yes, I would think that she would have said something about time, whether it was years, months or days ago...but she didn't... to me, that's a reason to be curious.


I couldn't disagree more - one of the brilliant things about LOST is that it is presented in a way that gives the impression that things are occurring without reason or logic -- but in all actuality, I believe that everything has a reasonable and logical explanation. It's interesting, and maybe TMI for this board or conversation, but yesterday I met an artist who had shown me his paintings and they were fascinating. They were large colorful splotches on a white canvas. The splotches looked completely chaotic and undeliberate - like you would expect a splotch to look if paint were dripped from a brush onto the canvas. But when I looked closer, the splotches were all outlined with a solid, black line, and within the spoltches were other tiny solid lines and colors that broke up the splotch into something like fractals. So, in fact, this splotch that appeared so amazingly undeliberate and 'without reason' at first first glance, had actually been incredibly and painstakingly created, quite deliberately - line by line in excruciating detail.

I think we can expect the same from the artists behind LOST.

Lost has intimated at, promised, suggested and implied tens - almost hundreds - of wonderful and mysterious things and has come up short on almost every occasion. Many of us on the Lage will remember Vertical's brilliant fairground analogy.

Logic and reason - you've just been told that a woman with motives has acquired a gun and is alone with her intended victim. Logic and reason would say that you go hell for leather back to the Swan to try and prevent it or be in time to minimise any damage..but on Lost you stroll back with a man on a crutch.

Logic and reason - you think there's a group of people outside in the jungle vent on killing you and two of your group wish to venture out. Logic and reason would say you give them a gun or they ask for a gun. Not these two..an axe is all they need.

Logic and reason - You're a group with a list of people you are trying to kidnap. These people basically walk into your lap. Logic and reason would suggest you kidnap them there and then, taking them back to your hideout. But not on Lost - You devise some fiendish plan to infiltrate their group and finally catch them with tranquiliser darts.

Lost is being written with one huge memo on the door where TPTB mull over possible storylines - " Stretch It Out ". Fans having been screaming for the characters to ask the questions that people in their position would ask and you know what happens ? They finally begin to ask the logical questions and we're given " If i told you, you'd kill me ".

Come to think of it, maybe that's the memo on the door :rolleyes:

Holmes,

I agree with you that character choices and actions have often seemed to defy all logic.

Your examples are good ones.

However... they are all character choices... which are just like real human choices... sometimes they do defy all reason and logic -- sometimes they are absolutely stupid, bad, wrong choices... other times they are good, smart, well thought out choices.

When it comes to the answers to the mysteries on the show, no real answers have been revealed - so we do not know yet if they will be logical or reasonable.

Who knows? A logical and reasonable answer to the mysteries might even address the illogical actions of the characters... or maybe not.