Locke didn't choke the man but he set the whole scene up for the man to be killed.

I agree Locke is just as guilty. I wonder if the island will see it that way too. Locke has had chemistry with the island since he crashed on it because he was "special", but after this, will the island change its views about Locke?

Interesting ... what Locke orchestrated tonight reminded me of another character .... BEN!

What is it about Jacob or the Island that makes Ben (and tonight, Locke) have to keep their hands clean of "dirty" stuff. Ben is pathological about clearing his name when Juliet calls him a liar ... There's other examples of Ben keeping up appearances, when in reality his manipulations are pretty evil.

And now he has Locke doing it.

Where oh where is this show going?

Curiouser and curiouser....

Is Ben forging Locke in his own image?

I agree Locke is just as guilty. I wonder if the island will see it that way too. Locke has had chemistry with the island since he crashed on it because he was "special", but after this, will the island change its views about Locke?
Locke is FAR guiltier than Sawyer....he was planning it for what? A full day? I saw nothing to indicate that Sawyer killed him out of anything but momentary uncontrolled rage. If Cooper had finished reading the letter or shown even a little remorse instead of egging him on, I rather suspect that Locke would have left the Black Rock very disappointed;).


Oh well...water under the bridge...and 6 days, 20 hrs and 2 min until the next ep.

Yes, I am just that sick:biggrin:

I agree that Locke is just as responsible for what happened as Sawyer is, but guilty,I don't think either of them should feel guilt. Cooper deserved it and I am so glad he's gone.

Alaskanut, it's good to see someone as obsessed as I am.

Lock is just as guilty if not more, for having Cooper killed and turning Sawyer into a killer (although he's done it before).

Did anyone see at the end, how Locke was carrying Cooper by just his head? Am I the only one that found that completely unrealistic/weird?

I agree they are both culpable for the death, but I don't think the death was unjustified on their parts either.

Now that I think about it, maybe the sole reason Sawyer is on the Island is because the Island knew Locke wouldn't be able to kill his father-- so both of them were put on 815 in order for both of them to have their resolution.

Locke is an evil manipulator. Man, he was scary in this epi.

Locke is more guilty in my opinion.

Is Ben forging Locke in his own image?

Where Locke is concerned, I think this is the best theory—even if it's not developed yet— that I've heard.

The funny thing is, I think Richard, at least, probably sees this for what it is and in some sense endorses it... he wants Ben gone, for whatever reason, and sees Locke as "more special" and is ready for the new leadership.

Interesting, too, that Ben offered up Cooper for Locke to STAB... the biblical tale of Abraham and Jacob (!!!) flipped on its head! Locke as son must be Jacob, but put in the place of Abraham, and Cooper as Abraham, hoping against hope that his son will continue his "weak" ways.

Whether or not this plays into the character Ben calls "Jacob," I don't know... but the parallels are too much to ignore.

Interesting, too, that Ben offered up Cooper for Locke to STAB... the biblical tale of Abraham and Jacob (!!!) flipped on its head! Locke as son must be Jacob, but put in the place of Abraham, and Cooper as Abraham, hoping against hope that his son will continue his "weak" ways.

I think you're very confused. There is no story about Abraham and Jacob. Abraham was asked by God to sacrifice his son ISAAC. Isaac was Jacob's father, but I don't recall any interaction between Abraham and Jacob in the bible.

I also don't see how this could even be considered a flip side of the Abraham/Isaac story, because in that story, no one has a history of being "weak."

So, sorry, but I just don't any parallel here at all.

Regarding the actual topic though, I agree with those who say neither of them is particularly guilty. The best reasoning I've heard is, and you have to support to death penalty to buy into this, that Cooper really did have it coming, and after all the crimes he's committed against and pain he's caused Sawyer and Locke (and countless others) that he did, in fact, deserve to die, and he directly pushed Sawyer to the loss of self control that caused him to be killed.

Locke is more responsible for Cooper's death, but I don't know that guilty is the right word.

IThe best reasoning I've heard is, and you have to support to death penalty to buy into this, that Cooper really did have it coming...

Not necessarily. I'm an anti-dp activist, and I was still bummed that Locke didn't stick it to Cooper himself, and feel like Locke (my fave character by far, don't get me wrong), was a selfish prick to transfer moral responsibility for the killing to Sawyer. He didn't "clean up his own mess" last night, and he still isn't free, IMHO.

Lost is an alternate reality, not actual reality, thankfully. You don't have to look at a tv show the same way you do real life...at least, not if you operate with a full deck.

Where Locke is concerned, I think this is the best theory—even if it's not developed yet— that I've heard.

The funny thing is, I think Richard, at least, probably sees this for what it is and in some sense endorses it... he wants Ben gone, for whatever reason, and sees Locke as "more special" and is ready for the new leadership.

Interesting, too, that Ben offered up Cooper for Locke to STAB... the biblical tale of Abraham and Jacob (!!!) flipped on its head! Locke as son must be Jacob, but put in the place of Abraham, and Cooper as Abraham, hoping against hope that his son will continue his "weak" ways.

Whether or not this plays into the character Ben calls "Jacob," I don't know... but the parallels are too much to ignore.

YEP, YEP, YEP... Locke is just as guilty - and I agree with your point on Richard. Just like Juliette, I think they all feel hopeless and are looking for something NEW to believe in.

Lost is an alternate reality, not actual reality, thankfully. You don't have to look at a tv show the same way you do real life...at least, not if you operate with a full deck.Agreed, I also am against the death penalty, but because of entirely different reasons. I don't believe the government should have the right to kill its own citizens, and it's something that can't be taken back (we are finding more and more from DNA evidence that many death row inmates were actually innocent).

But within the context of Lost, I had no problem with Sawyer and Locke killing Cooper.

Locke is guiltier than Sawyer, but I would say that Ben bears ultimate responsibility, and next in line comes the dude that gave him the file folder.

Wasn't that the point? That Locke would take responsibility for killing Cooper? If guilty=finishing the job then Locke wanted to be just as guilty, or more guilty than Sawyer. I don't think Locke wanted to keep his hands clean, he just wanted Cooper to go, but couldn't have it in him to actually kill the guy.