The Brig seemed to allude to the ability for people on the island to (somehow) imagine or wish people to the island, a la John's dad. The others seemed to think he was "brought" to the island by John, but it turns out Sawyer also had a reason to come face to face with Cooper.

This reminds me of a theory tossed around in the first season, that Walt somehow "created" the polar bear after reading the Spanish comic book featuring a polar bear. Some related this theme to an episode of the original Star Trek series, called "Shore Leave," in which the crew lands on a planet where their thoughts/wishes/imaginings become reality.

If somehow the "magic box" metaphor Ben spoke of allows a similar phenomenon to occur on the island, it may explain a lot (the black horse, the shark, Jack's dad, Dave, even the Beechcraft). If any of the survivors wants/wishes/imagines something enough, maybe it somehow appears on the island.

Maybe this is what Jack and Juliet secretly know. They didn't seem as surprised by the arrival of parachute girl as they were worried or concerned. Desmond clearly obsessed over the idea of Penny either coming for him or sending people to look for him. Maybe he "brought" parachute girl to the island the same way someone brought Cooper.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Yeah, I don't think the idea of Walt conjuring the polar bears ever really died. I do think they came from the Hydra cages, but I think they were there in the first place because the Island exists outside of liear time and knew that Walt would one day reach the Island and need a way to bond with his father, thus creating the scenario in which Michael saved Walt from the polar bear in "Special."

very interesting and plausible theories everybody, and I was having the same problem with walt and the polar bears but Rodimus' explanation will work. however, the only shot we've seen of the island that was not a flashback was penelope getting a phone call from the chess playing arctic guys who were looking for something. so as much as i want to believe that the parachuter was brought there by Des since it folds in so well with everything we are just learning (or thinking we just learned) I cannot resolve it with that off-island shot.

I don't agree with the theory that Locke's father was somehow "wished" to the island.
Especially because "Cooper" said somebody slammed into the back of his car and later one of the paramedics smiled as he popped the IV in his arm...
Sounds to me like he was brought to the island in a purely non-supernatural way ;)

I don't agree with the theory that Locke's father was somehow "wished" to the island.
Especially because "Cooper" said somebody slammed into the back of his car and later one of the paramedics smiled as he popped the IV in his arm...
Sounds to me like he was brought to the island in a purely non-supernatural way ;)If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?" I don't think he would have denied bringing him to the Island himself if that's what happened.

If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?" I don't think he would have denied bringing him to the Island himself if that's what happened.

Why would Cooper lie about it?

Cooper did not know how he got there. But there is something going on that I cannot explain. I do think it will be along the lines of a Duex Ex Machina, sorry for the spelling. Its not going to be a "dream season" ala Dallas, but we will have to suspend alot of our disbelief. I mean so far most everything can be reasoned. The hardest thing is the healing of Locke and so forth. But all the conspiracy stuff, phantom plane, Dharma, etc can be reasoned into existance with huge infuxes of cash and power. I cannot wait to see. But remember, as Stephen King said in the Dark Tower Saga...Its not the destination, but the journey. Many fans were disapointed when Roland finally opened the door at the Dark Tower. Maybe we will never get the final answers we want, but we will see our losties grow into the people they are suposed to be and then they will go home. Just my 2 cents.

If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?" I don't think he would have denied bringing him to the Island himself if that's what happened.

Ben would say that because the Others didn't bring him to the island.
I believe some DHARMA-Scientists survived the purge and are the 3. group on the island (which Cuse & Lindelof already confirmed).
And maybe this third group (wether they are the rest of the DHARMA-Scientists as I believe or not) brought Cooper on the island.
But don't ask me why.^^

Ben would say that because the Others didn't bring him to the island.
I believe some DHARMA-Scientists survived the purge and are the 3. group on the island (which Cuse & Lindelof already confirmed).
And maybe this third group (wether they are the rest of the DHARMA-Scientists as I believe or not) brought Cooper on the island.
But don't ask me why.^^

when did they confirm this? if it's in a podcast, i want to know which one. if it's in an article, i'd like the URL. if you can provide neither, then you probably just read that here and it's not true at all. that happens a lot, like how they "confirmed" that there was a major hint in the pilot episode that hasn't been brought up since. they pretty much laughed that one off.

Ben lies. He admitted they thought Locke might be special right away, as soon as their file showed Locke's back was broken and Ethan presumably reported Locke was walking. My guess is that the Mittelos people hit Cooper's vehicle from behind, perhaps with the tan Bonneville that hit Michael and also hit Locke in the toy store parking lot. Of course they were first on the scene, masquerading as paramedics to kidnap Cooper and bring him to the island as kind of an offering, to help Locke get over his past and want to join the Others.

The Mittelos people got Juliet to the island in a similar way, by having that bus hit her ex-husband and boss.

That's my current theory.

If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?" I don't think he would have denied bringing him to the Island himself if that's what happened.

I do because that is how Ben works he wants John to do something and thus is willing to make John Believe he brought him there... I am not buying the whole you bring things to the island... Walt might be a different story because of the bird and what not... but normal cricumstances i don't buy it

when did they confirm this? if it's in a podcast, i want to know which one. if it's in an article, i'd like the URL. if you can provide neither, then you probably just read that here and it's not true at all. that happens a lot, like how they "confirmed" that there was a major hint in the pilot episode that hasn't been brought up since. they pretty much laughed that one off.


I'm not one of those guys who takes rumours as facts. I don't like to lie to myself.^^
In the podcast on april 30 2007 The following question was asked:

Question: Are the nine factions of the Others you've previously mentioned connected to nine stations?
Answer: We were joking. There are two factions, and they'll become apparent in the coming weeks.


Here's the URL for the podcast: http://ll.media.abc.com/podcast/audio/itunes/Lostpodcast_20070430_657.mp3
And here's the URL for a summary page on the podcast: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast/April_30%2C_2007

I hope this is what you've asked for.^^

Don't neglect Eko and Semi. Eko thought he had seen his brother. When finally coming face to face with him, Semi said something to the effect of "why do you call me Semi, it's not my name".

Semi isn't even a name ever use in Lost.^^
I think you mean Yemi. :D

Btw, what do you want to say?
Why shouldn't we neglect Mr. Eko?

I'm not one of those guys who takes rumours as facts. I don't like to lie to myself.^^
In the podcast on april 30 2007 The following question was asked:



Here's the URL for the podcast: http://ll.media.abc.com/podcast/audio/itunes/Lostpodcast_20070430_657.mp3
And here's the URL for a summary page on the podcast: http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast/April_30%2C_2007

I hope this is what you've asked for.^^

diMaggio, I heard that podcast and took them to mean that the current Others are in two factions, the "Ben Faithfuls" and those that want a change ala Mittelos guy and Juliet.

But I could be wrong.....that happens alot! :rolleyes:

Hi, first time poster...I dont think Locke "brought" Cooper to the island. I think it is another con by Ben. Ben made up all that metophorical "box" stuff. I think he is playing Locke like a fiddle. He also meant for Locke to take the tape recorder so Locke would tell the losties...just my two cents and my first post.

Megan

One of the island secrets may be that you can manifest your desires whether you are consciuos of the desire or not. That does not mean that you are conjuring things that don't already exist out of thin air.

For example, Walt - without even being on the island - because he is special- conjured the bird that killed itself on his apartment window in Australia when he was reading about the same bird for a school assignment.

A spinal surgeon fell out of the sky several days after Ben learned that he had a spinal tumor.

The black horse may actually be on the island, like the polar bears really were on the island, but Kate saw the horse when she needed to see it.

The plane with Yemi was on the island, but Eko did not have to find it. Eko crashed on the other side of the island, but eventually made his way to the plane.

Charlie found the heroin, which he needed to overcome. etc, etc.

My guess is that the Mittelos people hit Cooper's vehicle from behind, perhaps with the tan Bonneville that hit Michael and also hit Locke in the toy store parking lot.

Oh, I really hope that crack about the tan Bonneville was meant to be light-hearted and humorous, cause it made me chuckle! :biggrin:
100%
Don't neglect Eko and Semi. Eko thought he had seen his brother. When finally coming face to face with him, Semi said something to the effect of "why do you call me Semi, it's not my name".

Actually, he said, "You speak to me as if I were your brother," which is equally as eerie/confusing.

Why would Cooper lie about it?I don't believe he did. However I believe that the detail of the smiling paramedic is a red herring. A lot of people are saying the paramedic was Richard, but if it was Richard, Cooper would have recognized him standing right there when Locke was in the basement with him and Ben.

I do because that is how Ben works he wants John to do something and thus is willing to make John Believe he brought him there... I am not buying the whole you bring things to the island... Walt might be a different story because of the bird and what not... but normal cricumstances i don't buy itBut if the purpose of the Others for HOLDING Cooper is to manipulate Locke, it wouldn't serve any purpose for Ben to deny bringing him there, especially if he's going to be all vague about the "you brought him here" angle.

If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?"

I think you take that too literal, Prime.
I take the sentence as: "Your influence on how our life changed on this island since you arrived made me bring your father here."
Ben feels John kind of forced him to make that step of kidnapping Cooper in order to influence John with that. So John would be directly responsible for Coopers appearence on the Island, in Ben's twisted view of things.

Provided that Cooper was the REAL Cooper and not a shapeshifted SMOKEY!

The "box" is not a ST-esque Transporter that brings things to the Island.
The most mystical and magical thing that I can imagine would be that indeed Smokey is a shapeshifting device that can be formed into anything a person wants.
But in Coopers case he debunked that by telling how he had his accident and all that...

Hi, first time poster...I dont think Locke "brought" Cooper to the island. I think it is another con by Ben. Ben made up all that metophorical "box" stuff. I think he is playing Locke like a fiddle. He also meant for Locke to take the tape recorder so Locke would tell the losties...just my two cents and my first post.

Megan

Hi Megan, how are you doing ? Nice to meet you..

Great first post also. You've already got the hang of it. But I also think Locke is getting the hang of Ben playing him like a fiddle and is playing along according to his own agenda.. He's doing a great job !

cu,
me

If that's true, why would Ben keep saying to John "you brought him here?"

This quote by Ben is just weird. Why does Ben say it was John that brought Cooper to the island when Sawyer had just as much hatred to put behind him for Cooper as John did? If there is a "Box" wouldent mabye the combination of both John and Sawyers past haunting them because of Cooper bring him thru the Box? If there is a Box?
I think they even knew about Sawyers past and Cooper because of the file they had on him. Isnt that where John got the info from? From Richard? Unless John figured it out himself?

~~~
Im Puzzled

I can only repeat: Don't take the phrase literaly! It's as much a synonym as the "box" itself.

The Brig seemed to allude to the ability for people on the island to (somehow) imagine or wish people to the island, a la John's dad. The others seemed to think he was "brought" to the island by John, but it turns out Sawyer also had a reason to come face to face with Cooper.

This reminds me of a theory tossed around in the first season, that Walt somehow "created" the polar bear after reading the Spanish comic book featuring a polar bear. Some related this theme to an episode of the original Star Trek series, called "Shore Leave," in which the crew lands on a planet where their thoughts/wishes/imaginings become reality.

If somehow the "magic box" metaphor Ben spoke of allows a similar phenomenon to occur on the island, it may explain a lot (the black horse, the shark, Jack's dad, Dave, even the Beechcraft). If any of the survivors wants/wishes/imagines something enough, maybe it somehow appears on the island.

Maybe this is what Jack and Juliet secretly know. They didn't seem as surprised by the arrival of parachute girl as they were worried or concerned. Desmond clearly obsessed over the idea of Penny either coming for him or sending people to look for him. Maybe he "brought" parachute girl to the island the same way someone brought Cooper.

Curiouser and curiouser...

Dont let the small amount of time the comic book had fool ya, it is vital for the show...The major clue overlooked in the pilot episode imho.
The answer's to Lost's mysteries are inside it. ;)

I take the sentence as: "Your influence on how our life changed on this island since you arrived made me bring your father here."
Ben feels John kind of forced him to make that step of kidnapping Cooper in order to influence John with that. So John would be directly responsible for Coopers appearence on the Island, in Ben's twisted view of things.I still disagree with this. Since my theory is that the power of the Island is to affect small changes in causality that ultimately create major changes in the timeline, I believe that what Ben meant that Locke's subconscious inability to reconcile with his father (or, perhaps, Sawyer's desire to meet and kill the real Sawyer) empowered the Island to change causality so that a series of events would result in Cooper ending up on the Island.

The Brig seemed to allude to the ability for people on the island to (somehow) imagine or wish people to the island, a la John's dad. The others seemed to think he was "brought" to the island by John, but it turns out Sawyer also had a reason to come face to face with Cooper.

This reminds me of a theory tossed around in the first season, that Walt somehow "created" the polar bear after reading the Spanish comic book featuring a polar bear. Some related this theme to an episode of the original Star Trek series, called "Shore Leave," in which the crew lands on a planet where their thoughts/wishes/imaginings become reality.

If somehow the "magic box" metaphor Ben spoke of allows a similar phenomenon to occur on the island, it may explain a lot (the black horse, the shark, Jack's dad, Dave, even the Beechcraft). If any of the survivors wants/wishes/imagines something enough, maybe it somehow appears on the island.

Maybe this is what Jack and Juliet secretly know. They didn't seem as surprised by the arrival of parachute girl as they were worried or concerned. Desmond clearly obsessed over the idea of Penny either coming for him or sending people to look for him. Maybe he "brought" parachute girl to the island the same way someone brought Cooper.

Curiouser and curiouser...


maybe that explains how kates horse, jakcs dad, hurleys car and other unexplained objects come to be on the island

I said this a while ago

Surely the 'magic box' concept is a direct lift from Stalker rather than Star Trek? The general feel of the show is quite similar to Tarkovsky's films anyway, given its blend of mystery and nature, and the various odd supernatural happenings, of course.

Also, re: the paramedic's smile, I agree it initially felt like a slightly incongruous comment for Cooper to make, but I took it as evidence on his part that they were in Hell: he was already dead by this point and these people were helping him into the afterlife. After all, it's not likely they'd be so casual after such a serious accident (the explanation being that it was orchestrated by the Others, as has been said).

Like a lot of people, I'm pretty sure Ben was lying to Locke - it would hardly be the first time.

The problem with the wishing theory is why no rescue boats have appeared at any point.

Also a mountain of chocolate donuts for Hurley :p

Rodimus, Walt may not have even been born when the Polar Bear experiment started. Even for non-linear time, I think the connection would be so attenuated in that case as to count as fate or even just literary foreshadowing.

I do think that there's something to the wish-fullfillment theory. But it's much more likely that the polar bears craved role models and wished the comic book into existance.

Its said that every lie stems from a seed of truth, meaning that in my opinion there has to be some connection between wishful thinking and the appearances of objects, i think that certain characters have the ability to make things apear, hurley, locke, walt and so on

Is is possible that smokey can read their minds, find out their biggest emotional buttons to push and somehow convey that info back to the Others (or a device/computer that only Ben has access - Jacob possibly?) This would explain how Ben knows exactly how to best manipulate each of the Losties.

Perhaps, during the Others' continuing ruse with Dharma - assuming that theory is correct - Ben can request special items/people from the mainland. He tells them they are required for ongoing scientific experiments or something. The well-funded Dharma connection on the mainland delivers items, animals or people - whatever - that Ben uses to exploit and manipulate the Losties. I guess that wouldn't explain Dave since he just disappered, if I remember right. Or Christian Shepherd, unless he wasn't really dead. Maybe smokey can plant delusions that seem very real into people minds through some type of advanced technological hypnosis.

you bring up a good point, Dharma is a very well funded and well organized organization, making this a very possible theory

perhaps ben just meant that the other's would not have bothered bring locke's father to the island if it weren't for locke's need to deal with his daddy issues.

but i also like the idea of some people being in a stronger relationship to the island, and therefore the island makes more provisions for them.

ie-walt and locke especially, that had the least desire to leave the island, and the island seems to respond to that wish(?)

(...) I believe that what Ben meant that Locke's subconscious inability to reconcile with his father (or, perhaps, Sawyer's desire to meet and kill the real Sawyer) empowered the Island to change causality so that a series of events would result in Cooper ending up on the Island.

Ben or whoever had Cooper KIDNAPPED in order to bring him to the island! That's not causality, that's calculation.
Cooper didn't just fall out of the sky like Jack, making his appearence an act of fate, he was brought there by command of a person who had a plan in mind to manipulate John.

you bring up a good point, Dharma is a very well funded and well organized organization, making this a very possible theory

i may be completely off here, but i thought the others were NOT a part of the dharma initiative, even antagonistic towards them; hence the "purge" and all that hulaballoo

I like this theory!

BUT... if Walt imagined the polar bears... why the cages? Why would Tom say: It only took the bears... what, 2 hours? Can't remember...

AND... remember the polar bear/Namaste painting in Widmore's office...
I think the bears were already there..

But still... there's something strange about that comic book!

And btw, the polar bears are also mentioned in the blast door map and could be seen in the orientation video as part of the dharma initiative project. ;)

The point about the polar bear cages brings up the question if the box exists, because if they had cages they had to have had something to put in them, so if walt wished bears on the island, the question is if they were already there or not, or if they were there already maybe he set them free in some way, just my opinon though

The Brig seemed to allude to the ability for people on the island to (somehow) imagine or wish people to the island, a la John's dad. The others seemed to think he was "brought" to the island by John, but it turns out Sawyer also had a reason to come face to face with Cooper.

This reminds me of a theory tossed around in the first season, that Walt somehow "created" the polar bear after reading the Spanish comic book featuring a polar bear. Some related this theme to an episode of the original Star Trek series, called "Shore Leave," in which the crew lands on a planet where their thoughts/wishes/imaginings become reality.

If somehow the "magic box" metaphor Ben spoke of allows a similar phenomenon to occur on the island, it may explain a lot (the black horse, the shark, Jack's dad, Dave, even the Beechcraft). If any of the survivors wants/wishes/imagines something enough, maybe it somehow appears on the island.

Maybe this is what Jack and Juliet secretly know. They didn't seem as surprised by the arrival of parachute girl as they were worried or concerned. Desmond clearly obsessed over the idea of Penny either coming for him or sending people to look for him. Maybe he "brought" parachute girl to the island the same way someone brought Cooper.

Curiouser and curiouser...

A little like the film " Sphere " you mean. On the surface of it, that would answer a few questions - like Kate's horse - but it wouldn't ( or shouldn't ) be plausible. Locke's father was brought to the island by The Others - he was in a car crash, sedated and then woke up on the island. Back in the real world he's probably been declared dead.

There will ne many fans who loved this epi because it confirmed the longheld theory about Locke's father and Sawyer. Howver, i thought it was a cheap shot to build up the end-of-season countdown and try to regain some viewers. What in God's name could Jack know about the island that he wasn't prepared to tell her then...but possibly later ? Is the island a giant microwave and Jack is cooking Kate a surprise dinner ?

Recently, Charlie trusted Jack and it was proven right when Claire recovered. Now he doesn't trust him because it suits the plot.

Conversely, this weeks epi of Heroes dealt intelligently with time travel, tied up some loose ends and left us awaiting the next episode. Reminds me of Lost in Season 1.

The problem with the wishing theory is why no rescue boats have appeared at any point.

Also a mountain of chocolate donuts for Hurley :pThe Island's ability only relates to those with a close affinity to it, and as a result, those who actively want to LEAVE it are not going to have their desires realized.
Rodimus, Walt may not have even been born when the Polar Bear experiment started. Even for non-linear time, I think the connection would be so attenuated in that case as to count as fate or even just literary foreshadowing.Try to think of time as one big plane with all the events spread out on it, each one with equal value and not labeled as "past," "present" or "future." When those labels are DE-valued, the perspective of the Island becomes clear.

My inspiration for this theory comes primarily from the wormhole aliens in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, if you're familiar with it. They had no concept of linear time and Sisko had to explain to them how, from a human's perspective, cause precedes effect and whatnot. Later, Sisko discovered (DS9 SPOILER)that he himself was the progeny of a wormhole alien, who had married his father in past, knowing that he would someday become the Prophet who would make contact with them.I think the Island works the same way. It knew Walt would one day be on the Island, just as it knew that Eko would be there. Heck, the Dharma Project itself may be the result of the fact that Hanso was on the Island at some point.