TBTB have expressed that the big answers to this show will be "somewhat realistic".

The Others used a ruin landmark as their camp for the night, and of all places to put Cooper, they tied him to the ruin. Obviously the ruin was thrown in for continuity purposes, so when we find the Others are hanging out in an actual "ruin", as in a building or series of buildings (or more), it all fits.

With this whole "black box" metaphor, and how the Others don't seem to exactly know as many "what"s as "why"s in regards to the island, I'm fairly certain that what we're dealing with is an ancient technology. Like the Egyptians or Myans. Very old, yet incredibly advanced mechanics, to the point that modern science can't really understand it - but it can measure its affects and theorize upon its nature.

It would fit in with pretty much everything, including Smokey/Cerberus being the ancient, yet incredibly affective defense mechanism.

Nice thought. Maybe not Egyptian or Mayan but Atlantian?

Nice thought. Maybe not Egyptian or Mayan but Atlantian?

oooh...now THAT is interesting!! :biggrin:

I had the thought of Atlantis last night when seeing the column.....

Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu...

I don't think its Atlantis, but there is something mythical about this island. I've been saying for sometime that we are talking about a Phantom island. And no doubt there were a ancient civilization living there that predated Dharma. And I also believe some of the Others are descendants of those natives.

Wow. I never thought of that. So interesting! The four-toed people?

I was also thinking more along the lines of things that have not been unequivocally proven, like the existence of Atlantis. More mythological things, like the Ancient Astronaut theory or the origin of the Sumerian culture.

Makes me also think about places like Machu Picchu.

Oh, maybe! The scenes with Cooper tied up to the ruin reminded me of some kind of Mayan ritual offering

Is it possible that this may be the lost Garden of Eden? It kind of fits with all of the biblical references. Maybe this is why they can not have children; they are still being punished for the sins of the original inhabitants.

I kinda like the Atlantis idea. It would explain how the Black Rock ended up in the middle of the jungle if the island "rose up from the sea" underneath it! I love the idea of an ancient society with mysterious and advanced technology. It would really put another interesting spin on the show.

Atlantis is a good thought, but isn't the island (supposedly) in the middle of the Pacific? And wasn't Atlantis in the Mediterranean? Unless the producers have a good way of explaining how the island moved across the world, I'm not so sure Atlantis is the answer. Although at this point in the show, it seems like a very logical and plausible answer.

Is it possible that this may be the lost Garden of Eden? It kind of fits with all of the biblical references. Maybe this is why they can not have children; they are still being punished for the sins of the original inhabitants.

I wouldn't be surprised if it turn out that the island is something like that. We already have a Ben, John, Aaron, Jacob, Rachel ,Naomi, Rebecca, Desmond the priest, Eko the priest, a building of a church, the baptism of Claire and Aaron. It would not surprise me in the least if the island turned out to be Eden.

Is it possible that this may be the lost Garden of Eden? It kind of fits with all of the biblical references. Maybe this is why they can not have children; they are still being punished for the sins of the original inhabitants.

Good thought, and actually wasn't bearing children PART OF the punishment? Originally it was just supposed to be Adam and Eve (!) in the Garden forever.

That would fit the theory even better. You can't conceive here because no conceiving aloud. In fact fornicating is punishable by death! Maybe hell would be better after all! ;)

I went to Wikipedia to look up some stuff on Garden of Eden and thought a few lines of this were interesting.
"In the Garden of Eden story, God molds Adam from the dust of the Earth, then forms Eve from one of Adam's ribs and places them both in the garden, eastward in Eden. God charges both Adam and Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) to tend the garden in which they live, and specifically commands Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_Knowledge_of_Good_and_Evil). Eve is quizzed by the serpent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29) why she avoids eating of this tree. In the dialogue between the two, Eve elaborates on the commandment not to eat of its fruit. She says that even if she touches the tree she will die. The serpent responds that she will not die, rather she would become like God, knowing good and evil. Eve then eats from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and persuades Adam to eat from it too. They then become aware. God finds them, confronts them, and judges them for disobeying.
The next verse says that God was afraid that they might become immortal if they ate of the Tree of Life. It is at this point that God expels them from Eden, to keep Adam and Eve from partaking of the Tree of Life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life). The story says that God placed cherubim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubim) with an omnidirectional "flaming" sword to guard against any future entrance into the garden.
In the account, the garden is planted "eastward, in Eden," and accordingly "Eden" properly denotes the larger territory which contains the garden, rather than being the name of the garden itself: it is, thus, the garden located in Eden.

The mention of the "omnidirectional flaming sword" made me think of smokey.
The "garden within a larger territory" seems like the small section of the large island that smokey patrols.
The fact that they would become aware upon eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge reminds me of the way the others act; all-knowing and aware of what is really going on.
Any thoughts?

Atlantis is a good thought, but isn't the island (supposedly) in the middle of the Pacific? And wasn't Atlantis in the Mediterranean? Unless the producers have a good way of explaining how the island moved across the world, I'm not so sure Atlantis is the answer. Although at this point in the show, it seems like a very logical and plausible answer.

Rather than being Atlantis, I think it would be something like Atlantis, a lost ancient civilization that was technologically advanced.

I went to Wikipedia to look up some stuff on Garden of Eden and thought a few lines of this were interesting.
"In the Garden of Eden story, God molds Adam from the dust of the Earth, then forms Eve from one of Adam's ribs and places them both in the garden, eastward in Eden. God charges both Adam and Eve (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_and_Eve) to tend the garden in which they live, and specifically commands Adam not to eat from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_the_Knowledge_of_Good_and_Evil). Eve is quizzed by the serpent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29) why she avoids eating of this tree. In the dialogue between the two, Eve elaborates on the commandment not to eat of its fruit. She says that even if she touches the tree she will die. The serpent responds that she will not die, rather she would become like God, knowing good and evil. Eve then eats from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil and persuades Adam to eat from it too. They then become aware. God finds them, confronts them, and judges them for disobeying.
The next verse says that God was afraid that they might become immortal if they ate of the Tree of Life. It is at this point that God expels them from Eden, to keep Adam and Eve from partaking of the Tree of Life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_Life). The story says that God placed cherubim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cherubim) with an omnidirectional "flaming" sword to guard against any future entrance into the garden.
In the account, the garden is planted "eastward, in Eden," and accordingly "Eden" properly denotes the larger territory which contains the garden, rather than being the name of the garden itself: it is, thus, the garden located in Eden.

The mention of the "omnidirectional flaming sword" made me think of smokey.
The "garden within a larger territory" seems like the small section of the large island that smokey patrols.
The fact that they would become aware upon eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge reminds me of the way the others act; all-knowing and aware of what is really going on.
Any thoughts?


We've seen trees in Lost that look similar to how the Tree of Life is often depicted. The tree where Kate and Tom were digging for the time capsule looked very much like the Tree of Life. We also see a similar tree in the episode where Eko is killed. It seems like there may be a couple more times when we've seen a tree that is similar to the Tree of Life. I just can't think of specifics at the moment.

The Eden theory could also be supported by the 2 skeleton's that Jack discovers (by the caves in which some of the losties resided for a short period of time) in season 1. One of the skeleton's is male and the other is female. In addition, Locke names the skeletons Adam and Eve. Coincidence?

I actually don't think it is Eden, but it is a very interesting theory and I would not be completely shocked if it were proven true.

Regarding the fact that Eden was the larger land in which the garden was located: Sun made a pretty little garden on the island. :)

I don't think its Atlantis, but there is something mythical about this island. I've been saying for sometime that we are talking about a Phantom island. And no doubt there were a ancient civilization living there that predated Dharma. And I also believe some of the Others are descendants of those natives.


The Others are just too damn American to be from any kind of different culture. Muffins . . . cheeseburgers . . . book clubs . . . Stephen King. They talk like Americans, they look like Americans, they live like Americans.

Nice thought. Maybe not Egyptian or Mayan but Atlantian?

I know there are a ton of posts here, but I posted about Atlantis some time ago. I keep going back to that 4-toed foot statue that Sayid spotted on the boat.
The foot also appeared to be wearing a greek-like sandal. Also, they did obviously put that column ruin in last episode, so it has to be something.
It appears the only way predictably onto and off the island between the "real world" is a submarine. And how did Penny's people detect the magnetic resonance when they stopped pushing the button in the Artic? Perhaps because the island itself is Atlantis, hidden underneath a water pocket or iceberg somehow? The show's producers have said that there is a mythological aspect to the show as well.....

The Others are just too damn American to be from any kind of different culture. Muffins . . . cheeseburgers . . . book clubs . . . Stephen King. They talk like Americans, they look like Americans, they live like Americans.

Yet at funerals they wear their funky white tunics. Maybe they adopted Western culture when they killed the Darma people and took over their technology and started eating their food and watching their satellite feeds.

Finally, some theories I actually like. :D

Because of Desmond I think there has to be time-manipulation element to this island. One thought is this is part of the future being sustained in the past. There are protocols and time police to make sure nothing is changed that would upset the future. Why would the future want to do this? Because of a fertility problem they can't fix. Maybe the healing properties of the island is a future technology that everyone enjoys, a sort of universal health care system. Unfortunately they found out about the fertility problem that occurs after a few years exposure. To fix it they need to test people who have not been exposed to the healing properties all their lives which only exist in the past. But they need to use people who were about to die so they don't upset the future.

Yeah, it's a mix of a few previous movies but it's a fun idea to kick around.

Cambodia: Angkor Thom and Angkor Thwat
Was a local legend for thousands of years...a king who lived in a jungle who's kingdom had rivers laden with gold.
It is a real place, and was uncovered completely with the birth of satelite imagery.
Most of the larger, Buddha covered citadels have been excavated out of the banjon trees, but the vast majority of the city and its paved rivers is still in the jungle
Coolest travel link on the web: www.galenfrysinger.com (http://www.galenfrysinger.com)

Ooh, there are many things I like about the Garden of Eden idea. That's great. Just to add a few Eden type references to the theory . . . we of course saw the graves of Adam and Eve in Season 1. Perhaps it isn't a figurative Adam and Eve at all, but literally Adam and Eve. Could it be that simple? Probably not, but you know - it's Lost.

In Flashes Before Your Eyes, Charlie is busking on a London street, using the name Charlie Hieronymous Pace. Some took that as a Hieronymous Machine reference. I always liked the Hieronymous Bosch reference, as the Bosch tryptic 'Garden of Earthly Delights' has always been one of my favorite paintings. In it, we see Adam and Eve in the first panel, living peacefully in the Garden of Eden. Then we see sin in the middle panel, with full-on bacchanalia. The last panel is hell, and it doesn't look fun.

I'm loving the Garden of Eden theory. However, I doubt the "Adam and Eve" found in the caves are the literal Adam and Eve, as they were expelled from the Garden by God (Gen 3:23). I love the idea of Smokey being the flaming sword (Gen 3:24). Could it be that the island is a generally good place (with healing powers etc.) that has been corrupted by the will of men? This would fit right in with the theme of the Garden of Eden.

Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu...

Yeah, Lemuria or MU would be the Pacific version of Atlantis. When I first heard of this theory it gave me chills about how well it could explain Lost. Very Tantalizing...

Is it possible that this may be the lost Garden of Eden? It kind of fits with all of the biblical references. Maybe this is why they can not have children; they are still being punished for the sins of the original inhabitants.

No. I highly doubt this show has anything to do with the bible. And yes people, I know some of the characters have biblical names. Coincidences thats all.

I like the theories but i'd prefer if the island were like Atlantis or Mu, but actually wasn't one of the two. With a completely new mythological background, as i think Atlantis is a bit cliche, people were throwing that around in the middle of season 1.

If it were really Atlantis, or Mu or an island much like those two, then do you think the remaining 2 seasons would be enough to see all of it? Considering how much we know how about the origins of the island (barely anything) could they fit that all in for the remainder of the show?

Hmmm, nice thread by the way.

I love the Garden of Eden theory, it certainly fits. But I think it's more that the island is just similair to the Garden of Eden. I mean for one thing I don't think the writers are going to go all Bible stories on us. So even if they did draw some inspiration from the bible, I doubt they'll flat out tell us.

one word: lemuria. i know its been discussed before but that is probably the best theory out there:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent)

Wow, that's the first I've read of the Lemuria theory (I've got big gaps in my 'lage surfing). Certainly would give a fabulous double-meaning to the show title being "LOST".

Oo i like that! the idea of lemuria is interesting, and i have to say i enjoy theories that are acutally tangible like that. im sure there may be some incongruities to the idea of lost being an island like lemuira, but as of now im liking that ...

I think the entire island is an atom of the toenail of a four-toed giant.

Which is why the statue was a giant four-toed foot. There never was a "rest of the statue".

I'm going to bed. :)

We also need to keep in mind that there are going to be many red herrings in a show like this, to keep people from guessing the ending. A lot of the Biblical names could be in there to throw you off the trail. Another important thing to remember is that there are A LOT of names in the Bible, and many, many people in the real world have Biblical names. It would be unrealistic if many of the survivors didn't have Biblical names.

We also need to keep in mind that there are going to be many red herrings in a show like this, to keep people from guessing the ending. A lot of the Biblical names could be in there to throw you off the trail. Another important thing to remember is that there are A LOT of names in the Bible, and many, many people in the real world have Biblical names. It would be unrealistic if many of the survivors didn't have Biblical names.

True. It's a bit pervasive though. Lostpedia has the following list of Biblical names that have popped up in the show:

Adam and Eve
Aaron
James
John
Michael
Sarah
Ethan
Nathan
Jason
Benjamin
Tom
Adam
Daniel (Danny Pickett)
Isaac
Stephen (Steve)
Joanna
Eli
Elizabeth
Jacob
Joshua
Ruth
Rachel
Naomi

It's the Old Testament names that I find have had the biggest connections to the actual Biblical figures themselves. This coupled with Eko's scripture stick, and episodes with titles like Exodus and The 23rd Psalm make the Biblical influences compelling regardless.

True. It's a bit pervasive though. Lostpedia has the following list of Biblical names that have popped up in the show:

Adam and Eve
Aaron
James
John
Michael
Sarah
Ethan
Nathan
Jason
Benjamin
Tom
Adam
Daniel (Danny Pickett)
Isaac
Stephen (Steve)
Joanna
Eli
Elizabeth
Jacob
Joshua
Ruth
Rachel
Naomi

It's the Old Testament names that I find have had the biggest connections to the actual Biblical figures themselves. This coupled with Eko's scripture stick, and episodes with titles like Exodus and The 23rd Psalm make the Biblical influences compelling regardless.

What we don't know is how many of those names were chosen because they are Biblical. Elizabeth, Stephen, Sarah, John, Michael are exremely common names regardless of their source. If you pulled 50 American names out of a hat you might get 40 that are of Biblical origins.

There is no doubt that there are Biblical references in 'Lost' - but I think it is a leap to say that they are in the Garden of Eden because of that. It would be far more likely to be an allegory than to be the actual Garden of Eden.

What we don't know is how many of those names were chosen because they are Biblical. Elizabeth, Stephen, Sarah, John, Michael are exremely common names regardless of their source. If you pulled 50 American names out of a hat you might get 40 that are of Biblical origins.

There is no doubt that there are Biblical references in 'Lost' - but I think it is a leap to say that they are in the Garden of Eden because of that. It would be far more likely to be an allegory than to be the actual Garden of Eden.

Yes, I definitely agree that it doesn't point to The Garden of Eden per se. I stand by the thought though that visions of the Old Testament abound (along with about 15 great novels, scientific theories, etc.).

I think this thread has lost its way a bit - I now forgot what the actual 'Prediction' was that our thread author proposed! I think we're all anxiously awaiting Wednesday . . .

Eko's scripture stick means little since it came from someone who was faking being a priest. Probably the reason smokey took him out. He was a fraud.

Also, just keep in mind that the writers have said that no one theory is going to explain everything going on.

Yes, I definitely agree that it doesn't point to The Garden of Eden per se. I stand by the thought though that visions of the Old Testament abound (along with about 15 great novels, scientific theories, etc.).

No doubt - that's why I brought up Red Herrings - it can't be all of them, (but it may be more than one, as TK 421 points out)

[/quote]I think this thread has lost its way a bit - I now forgot what the actual 'Prediction' was that our thread author proposed! I think we're all anxiously awaiting Wednesday . . .[/quote]

I think everyone can agree on that! I think the prediction was about a lost civilization - which segued into Eden.

My thoughts on this matter lean towards something more... asian in feel. This could connect to the usage of Dharma and the I Ching symbols for the organizations imagery and concepts.

Consider the concepts of the Chinese gods...

The Ba-Xian or the Eight Immortals are the following:


CAO-GUOJIU (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=CAO-GUOJIU) — Royal Outcast
HAN-XIANGZI (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=HAN-XIANGZI) — The Flying Philosopher
HE-XIANGU (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=HE-XIANGU) — Self-raising Flower
LAN-CAIHE (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=LAN-CAIHE) — Drunk and Disorientated
LI-TIEGUAI (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=LI-TIEGUAI) — Body Snatcher
LU-DONGBIN (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=LU-DONGBIN) — Tactical Withdrawal
ZHANG-GUOLAO (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=ZHANG-GUOLAO) — Stubborn Old Mule
ZHONG-LIQUAN (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=ZHONG-LIQUAN) — Explosive Revelations

Now is it just me or do those names seem to suggest certain key members of Lost. Most notably the first one (The Royal Outcast.. hmm... one of us but not one of us?) then you got Bodysnatchers, Philosophers, disorented people, stubborn mules.... sounds like familiar terms.

And I quote:

"Each of them represents a different aspect of DAO (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=DAO)ist perfection. Over the centuries, these characters formed a team of kindred souls. Not having the usual Godly pedigree, they couldn't just mix with the Gods in Heaven, who are notoriously snobbish about such things. So instead they set up home at PENGLAI-SHAN (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=PENGLAI-SHAN), a mountainous island located in the mysterious East."

Penglai-shan? Hmm....

Also, consider the myth of the Jade-Emperor and the Mandate of Heaven.

The Jade Emperor:
"In fact, the JADE-EMPEROR (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=JADE-EMPEROR) is a master of winning without really doing anything. He knows all aspects of The Way (DAO (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=DAO)) and its Principle of Least Action (Wu Wei), making Heaven's regime the ultimate example of a do-nothing policy. He can become almost flustered if anything actually happens."

Ben?

"Having achieved Illumination and Omnipotence, he became supreme Heavenly Ruler, and Emperor of the Universe. Even the human ruler of China was simply a manifestation of the JADE-EMPEROR (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=JADE-EMPEROR). Earthly Emperors were given leave to rule by the MANDATE-OF-HEAVEN (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=MANDATE-OF-HEAVEN), provided they checked in every so often via a Jade PI-DISC (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=PI-DISC). "

The button?

But that's just me.

The Others are just too damn American to be from any kind of different culture. Muffins . . . cheeseburgers . . . book clubs . . . Stephen King. They talk like Americans, they look like Americans, they live like Americans.

I think the people who use the island's power, whether or not it has always been the same continuous organization as who are now the "others", have probably for a very long time recuited people from the outside world, like we know mikhail was recruited. They must have done this for at least as long as they've had the fertility problem.

But I agree that the island must represent something older than Maya or Egypt, so something that is prehistoric and highly advanced, so somewhat like Atlantis in that regard. Maybe Jacob has some sort of bloodline back to the original inhabitants.
100%
I'm loving the Garden of Eden theory. However, I doubt the "Adam and Eve" found in the caves are the literal Adam and Eve, as they were expelled from the Garden by God (Gen 3:23). I love the idea of Smokey being the flaming sword (Gen 3:24). Could it be that the island is a generally good place (with healing powers etc.) that has been corrupted by the will of men? This would fit right in with the theme of the Garden of Eden.

I suppose that the island being some interpretation of the Garden of Eden is possible. If it is, it's bad news for Locke, because he's off to eat from the Tree of Knowledge!

My thoughts on this matter lean towards something more... asian in feel. This could connect to the usage of Dharma and the I Ching symbols for the organizations imagery and concepts.

This stuff is very cool and interesting, even if it turns out not to be related to Lost. Great ideas. I shall read more.

ZHONG-LIQUAN (http://www.godchecker.com/pantheon/chinese-mythology.php?deity=ZHONG-LIQUAN) — Explosive Revelations

Gotta be Arntz.
100%

I suppose that the island being some interpretation of the Garden of Eden is possible. If it is, it's bad news for Locke, because he's off to eat from the Tree of Knowledge!

Nice observation. Bad for Locke - good for us!

in an older version of MS Word I could type in:

Alt 4815162342

and get this symbol:


µ

This symbol is the Greek symbol for Mu. The same as Lemuria/Mu

I have always theorized that the writers needed some numbers for their storyline. Since all the writers pretty much use MS Word, and they used the Island of Mu as a setting, why not find out what was the equivalent to typing in " µ " on their computer? Wala, they had their numbers...in the end the numbers are pretty meaningless. But they needed numbers for their story line and that's how they got them.

in an older version of MS Word I could type in:

Alt 4815162342

and get this symbol:


µ

This symbol is the Greek symbol for Mu. The same as Lemuria/Mu


...which is also the international symbol for micro-, meaning a millionth, e.g., a micrometer, which is a millionth of a meter. I started this intending to be facicious, but when I think about it, it would explain a whole lot if the island and everything around it actually existed on the micro scale. It would explain the damage to aircraft entering the area as the metal is stressed as it shrinks, why the sub ride is "bumpy" and "intense" and why no one can see the island untill they are literally right on top of it. Naomi saw it at the exact same time as her helicopter started failing, which would be when it apparently "grew" beneath her because she and her helicoptor enter the "micro-field". Hmm...

I like the island of Mu idea. Also, I'll bet some explanation about the tsunami that will be coming up will be entwined to tell the story about how the island originally 'sunk'.

I really think the real life tsunami is going to be a significant part of the story line. It was caused by an underground earthquake. I can't help but think something about the earthquake and the island will be tied together.