Even Dharma doesnt know who they are except they are the original inhabitants of the island.....

I think they are what Eko and Jin saw in season 2.

I think they are what Eko and Jin saw in season 2.

Well...apparently EVERYONE they saw (except the kids with the teddy bear) were Hostiles...seeing as how it appears all the Dharma Initiative people (EXCEPT Ben) were killed. It would appear that it's the Hostiles who now roam the island, DISGUISED as Dharmites.

So...back to the OP's query...WHO(M) Are They?

Well...they are obviously are bad people...I mean...who would choose to live on the island...unless they didn't want to be found? Are they outlaws...on the lamb from the law? We now know Alpert was one of them...and yet he cleaned up nicely after the purge and was able to go back stateside without fear of being arrested. They are also educated...and obviously not some descendants from the long ago "4 toed statue building" island dwellers. So, what were the Hosties (love that term) DOING on the island?

Were they REALLY there BEFORE Dharma got started...or were they sent to sabotage the Dharma Initiative after they got started? And possibly overtake their research?..But found they had a problem conceiving on the island...thus the need for someone like Juliette?

Did Charles Widmore find out about Alvar Hanso's idealic reseach facility plans...and decided a hostile take over was in order?

So...Who are they??? Outlaws? Dharma Sabotuers? Random People Who Just Got Stuck On The Island? Or....Something Else?

I think as was indicated in the episode the Hostiles are the original island inhabitants. Maybe aging really slow because of the Islands healing properties (hence Alpert). I believe that after the "purge" and Ben grew into his leadership role and recruited other people Tom,etc and others began crashing on the island Rosseau etc he used the hostiles "old" appearance etc as a cover (hence the fake beards etc).

"Well...they are obviously are bad people...I mean...who would choose to live on the island...unless they didn't want to be found? Are they outlaws...on the lamb from the law? We now know Alpert was one of them...and yet he cleaned up nicely after the purge and was able to go back stateside without fear of being arrested. They are also educated...and obviously not some descendants from the long ago "4 toed statue building" island dwellers. So, what were the Hosties (love that term) DOING on the island?"

I dont think they are obviously bad. And who would want to live on the island? Maybe someone who is paralyzed or sick, or someone who enjoys immortality. Sign me up.

IMO they are the blackrock's people's grand grand grand grand sons.

I originally thought they were Black Rock survivors but that would put them over 100 years old. Either the fountain of youth is somewhere on the island or the lack of birthing children didn't happen until years later.

Hm... this is all very interesting.

I can't believe we replaced one mysterious group (Dharma/Others) with another one (Hostiles). So... if Season 3 is about the Others... will Season 4 be about the Hostiles?

I want to watch Alpert more closely now, since we discovered that he is not in fact a member of Dharma... none of them are... except for Ben, of course.

I think they are those who have been shipwrecked on the island....including original crew members of the Black Rock.

Fountain of Youth/Healing kind of stuff going on here....

The Hostile and the Others are the same group of people, with different people giving them different names. We were initially led to believe that they we're civilised people pretending to be savage natives, and after this episode I'm sure it's mostly the other way around.

Yeah I agree we can't assume they are bad either. Yeah they wiped out an entire village of people, but they were there first... that's like calling the Native Americans "bad" for defending their territory against settlers. It's a lot more complicated than that.

but what about Ethan...was he an O.G. "hostile"? I also wonder about Mikhail, Tom, Goodwin, etc...

i guess it narrows down to 4 possibilities for the different ways to end up part of "the others", and it seems to be a mix of all of them, which weirds me out because it's hard for me to believe that they could fall into the sort of cult family circle that Ben has created...anyways...

HOW TO BECOME AN OTHER:

1. crash on the island and sign up for duty.

(tailies that were kidnapped and joined the Others)

2. get scouted by Ben/Richard and a one way ticket to the island.

(Juliet & probably Ethan?)

3. quit your job at Dharma and help gas them all to death, then join by default.

(Ben & ???)

4. O.G. ...original gangstas or the "hostiles" that are supposedly native to the island.

(Richard & ???)

very confusing...i think that the diversity in the "others" is only going to lead to more confusion, and i hope they tie some of this together soon.

Yeah I agree we can't assume they are bad either. Yeah they wiped out an entire village of people, but they were there first... that's like calling the Native Americans "bad" for defending their territory against settlers. It's a lot more complicated than that.

Uh, no.

Native Americans believed that no-one can "own" land. Therefore they were willing to peacefully coexist with European settlers until those decided that they COULD own land, and whoever was living on it had to go.

This is not really what happened in this episode.

Others = Hostiles. The real question is that how can they be natives when they can speak perfect English, have English names and have all kinds of cool equipment like gas grenades?

My vote would be for "original crew / passengers / pirates of the Black Rock."

For one thing, Alpert didn't seem aged at all from when he met young Ben to when he was in league with present-day Ben.

For another, when young Ben first met Alpert, Alpert's clothes had a distinctly old-fashioned look, like they could be from the 19th century.

Plus, Alpert just has this "pirate-y" look about him (must be the black eyeliner...)

There's no way they are actual natives of the island or some kind of descendants from a pirate shipwreck.
Assuming that were true, they would have never been exposed to the outside world, thereby making Alpert a complete impossibility.

When he first encountered Ben in the jungle, he spoke in perfect English with an American accent. His mannerisms, his candor, everything about him suggests that he certainly was NOT raised on a remote jungle island.
Furthermore, overthrowing an outpost with nerve gas is far from something they could conceive of (even though I believe they stole the gas from Dharma through Ben)

The clothes Alpert was wearing are completely meaningless. I dunno where you people are getting all this crap about his clothes being indicative of the 18th century. It just looked like ragged unremarkable clothing to me.

My best "out there" theory on who they are (at least some of them, like Alpert), is escaped Dharma test-subjects.

Uh, no.

Native Americans believed that no-one can "own" land. Therefore they were willing to peacefully coexist with European settlers until those decided that they COULD own land, and whoever was living on it had to go.

This is not really what happened in this episode.

While Native Americans did mostly believe no one could own land (because it was a living creature, for most tribes), they did still fight other tribes that came into their territory - not to protect their land, but to reinforce and protect their own way of life. I think it's a fairly apt comparison here.

There's no way they are actual natives of the island or some kind of descendants from a pirate shipwreck.
Assuming that were true, they would have never been exposed to the outside world, thereby making Alpert a complete impossibility.

When he first encountered Ben in the jungle, he spoke in perfect English with an American accent. His mannerisms, his candor, everything about him suggests that he certainly was NOT raised on a remote jungle island.
Furthermore, overthrowing an outpost with nerve gas is far from something they could conceive of (even though I believe they stole the gas from Dharma through Ben)

The clothes Alpert was wearing are completely meaningless. I dunno where you people are getting all this crap about his clothes being indicative of the 18th century. It just looked like ragged unremarkable clothing to me.

My best "out there" theory on who they are (at least some of them, like Alpert), is escaped Dharma test-subjects.

EXACTLY. Perfect English and familiarity with technology eliminates the possibility that the Hostiles were truly native to the island (plus, most of them are Caucasian, and no one appears to be Polynesian). I suspect that the Hostiles formed slowly, over time, perhaps with those shipwrecked from the Black Rock, plus a few others that crash-landed on the island, and maybe even others who defected from Dharma (we don't know that Ben was the only one who joined up).

It was confirmed on the 3/20 Podcast (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Official_Lost_Podcast/March_20%2C_2007) that the Others are the same group as the Hostiles.

Maybe this indicates why there seems to be some disdain or unhappiness towards ben from people in the group.(especially Alpert) They are almost becoming what they "purged" in the first place. Domesticated if you will. They use Dharmas facilities and equipment. They have recruited people from far and wide (like Dharma).

Somewhere along the way I think Ben hijacked the groups motives and swapped them for his own (the mother/baby/fertility issue) personal motivations to do with his mothers death etc.

Alpert is wearing what looks to be a very modern and expensive-looking watch in the scene after "the purge". http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-97978.html

Yea I noticed that too. I think some time passed between Ben/Alperts initial conversation and the eventual purge. I imagine there was many years of planning etc (in which a lot of dharmas equipment found their way into the hands of the hostiles,hence the guns,canisters etc) hence Bens line about the patience he has in putting up with his father for so long when he's wanted to leave Dharma and go to the hostiles since he was a child.

I can't believe we replaced one mysterious group (Dharma/Others) with another one (Hostiles).
I don't see proof there ever were any Hostiles! All we got were some sound effects and a remark (paraphrasing), "Get down! The natives are attacking."

The group that came in and installed Benry? That might've been an inside job.

Robert

The only fact we have is that the hostials wee there first Ben said so.
Albert doesn't seen to age
Other then that I'm totally in the dark.

I did think Albert asking Ben if his mother died on the island was ather strange.

EXACTLY. Perfect English and familiarity with technology eliminates the possibility that the Hostiles were truly native to the island (plus, most of them are Caucasian, and no one appears to be Polynesian).

...and Alpert is clearly of middle-eastern descent. I know a Turkish guy who looks a lot like him.

The question in my mind is: where are they getting all their funding and supplies from? They clearly have ongoing operations and facilities back in the US. Who runs those? Obviously not Ben or Jacob. Was it some competitor to Hanso that wanted to steal the research being conducted by Dharma? It seems that the group currently on the island and being led by Ben still have ties to some sort of "parent company," but at the same time are pursuing their own agenda.
bah!

If I had to guess about who "the hostiles" are I would say that they are made up completely from a faction of the Dharma initiative that became hostile to the focus of the project, and "went native" so to speak. I've only started digging through the threads today, but I have yet to see it get mentioned, that when Ben came to the island the woman handing out leis was our favorite stewardess, Cindy. And if she was part of Dharma, then what's she still doing alive?
I got it! Jacob is Kurtz from The Heart of Darkness. The horror!:biggrin:

My best "out there" theory on who they are (at least some of them, like Alpert), is escaped Dharma test-subjects.

This has to be it, and the reason Richard hasn't aged. At first I thought he was "native" to the island, i.e., born there, and that was the reason he didn't age. But then I realized that he wasn't born the size he is now, duh. So he had to age "somewhere." I suppose it's possible that any "natives" would just age very, very, slowly, but then he'd have to be REALLY old, chronologically.

But, Aaron was born on the island, and he seems to be aging fairly appropriately, even faster than he should, (due to casting a several-months-old baby to play a newborn).

Alpert is wearing what looks to be a very modern and expensive-looking watch in the scene after "the purge". http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-97978.html

And is sporting the tidy haircut he has [5-20?] years later, while still wearing the bland clothes. Maybe they intentionally had a ragged appearance to make the Dharma gang think they were natives. Orrrr... if they were test subjects who ran off, maybe those were all the clothes they had when they escaped.

Using bits and parts of "The Lost Experience":

I'm thinking Mittelwerk here.
He was at some point obviously opposed to Hanso AND the Dharma Initiative. Perhaps the Others/Hostiles/natives are his team, used to bring down the initiative and going about the same research in a more aggressive way (Mittelwerk's way). There may have been fighting over a longer period, but it was Ben who provided them with the ultimate means to "purge" Dharma (noteably the code to deactivate the fence and perhaps the nerve gas itself).

They are the smoke monster you n00bs.

Going back to Season 2: these were the groups:

Losties, Dharma, Hostiles.

In Season 3: We found out that Goodwin and Ethan were from the same group and Ben was in charge. We also found out that the "hostile" look was a disguise. Noewe are back to admitting that there were hostiles there before Dharma.

Going back to Season 2: these were the groups:

Losties, Dharma, Hostiles.

In Season 3: We found out that Goodwin and Ethan were from the same group and Ben was in charge. We also found out that the "hostile" look was a disguise. Noewe are back to admitting that there were hostiles there before Dharma.

But back in season 2, when all we knew of the Hostiles is what Kelvin/Inman said about them, we thought they were another group. Now we know that the Hostiles and the Others are now the same. There is no Dharma, and hasn't been for a long time.

Does Rousseau get her own group (now that I suppose Desmond is an "honorary" Lostie)? ;)

...and Alpert is clearly of middle-eastern descent. I know a Turkish guy who looks a lot like him.

The actor that plays Richard is named Nestor Carbonell, which is about as Itallian as Tony Soprano mulitplied by bruscetta, shoehorned into a Maserati and then pained all red white and green. But, I guess Naveen is Indian and plays an Iraqi, so who knows, maybe the character Alpert is supposed to me from the Middle East.

My guess is they're the 4-toers, but it's also possible they're Black Rockers.

Either way the fact that they're almost entirely caucasian and all speak American English is a problem. Black Rockers would theoretically be either Danish or Mozambiqan (sp?) or both, ethnically speaking, and would presumably speak either Danish, Portuguese, or some African language. But, then again, I guess the ship was named the "Black Rock", in English.

It's possible that TPTB would just ingore the Americans-pretending-to-be-Polynesians thing, pretending that it makes sense, but I'd really be pretty disappointed.

I know it was said that the hostiles are the native population on the island, but what if they were simply there before Dharma and they just assumed they were original inhabitants instead of just another group of folks from somewhere. It's certainly very interesting that Ben assisted with the massacre of the Dharma folks and that the hostiles have been posing as Dharma folks by taking over most of the facilities and letting services continue, such as the food drops. We need more info, as always.

My best "out there" theory on who they are (at least some of them, like Alpert), is escaped Dharma test-subjects.

Excellent! Remindful of the movie "King of Hearts" - the inmates are running the asylum.

So, who's been funding the hostiles/others? they obviously had money back when the purge happened to get the masks, poison gas, etc.

Yeah. Seriously. Who are the hostiles? They're natives?!?! I mean, what was Richard wearing when he met lil' Ben, a cross between a polo shirt and a Jedi cloak? The Others were more believable in their dress-up clothes! Plus, how and why did he clean up so nicely 30 years later?!?! I don't know what to think... but I do like the idea of the hostiles being "criminals" on their way from England to Australia... it makes sense of the Black Rock and ties in nicely with the ol' "good people/bad people" theme. Next season will be interesting, but I hope we don't lose focus.
100%
Ben came to the island the woman handing out leis was our favorite stewardess, Cindy.


Yes! I saw that too... I watched it again and was less confident, and then nobody mentioned it here and I promptly assumed I was seeing things. Was it her, 'cuz that would make two people that existed in a time we would never expect to see them in...and the teasers said one.

If I had to guess about who "the hostiles" are I would say that they are made up completely from a faction of the Dharma initiative that became hostile to the focus of the project, and "went native" so to speak. I've only started digging through the threads today, but I have yet to see it get mentioned, that when Ben came to the island the woman handing out leis was our favorite stewardess, Cindy. And if she was part of Dharma, then what's she still doing alive?


I agree, I think they must be a faction of the Dharma initiative. In season 2, in The Hunting Party, Tom had quoted Hanso ("You know, somebody a whole lot smarter than anybody here once said 'Since the dawn of our species man's been blessed with curiosity'."), which I don't think he would have done if he, as a member of the hostiles, didn't have any connection to Dharma and Hanso.

I've only started digging through the threads today, but I have yet to see it get mentioned, that when Ben came to the island the woman handing out leis was our favorite stewardess, Cindy. And if she was part of Dharma, then what's she still doing alive?
I got it! Jacob is Kurtz from The Heart of Darkness. The horror!:biggrin:

I thought it was Cindy too, so I looked up the screen cap. Her name tag says Casey.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-81.html
I'm not sure if this means she ISN'T Cindy. Here are two pics to compare:
Cindy (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1256-444.html)
Casey (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-79.html)

Others = Hostiles. The real question is that how can they be natives when they can speak perfect English, have English names and have all kinds of cool equipment like gas grenades?

Exactly that is why I don't think they are natives of the Island. I think they dress to look like they crashed there to mislead people. I think they are the original team of scientists on the Island and got into a fight with Dharma over the Island.

Even Dharma doesnt know who they are except they are the original inhabitants of the island.....

WAIT a minute!!
Where is everybody getting that the hostiles are the original inhabitants of the island? That is NOT what Ben said!
Right when he was about to shoot Locke Ben said about the Dharma initiative - "They came here seeking harmony but they couldn't even coexist with the islands original inhabitant"

Inhabitant not Inhabitants. Ben was refering to only One inhabitant! Not a group of them. Really I replayed it 6 times to be sure. I thought he was referring to Jacob as the original inhabitant.

~~~
Im Puzzled

First of all..it seems that no One has ever been born on the Island. So they are not Natives in the true sense of the word. That storyline of Ben being the dude who was born on the Island has now collapsed.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1543515#post1543515

The point being that Ben is interested in fertility because no one has ever been born there. Ben used that lie to become the Leader of the Others(hostiles) and to seem special..when in fact he is a just a liar.

But back in season 2, when all we knew of the Hostiles is what Kelvin/Inman said about them, we thought they were another group. Now we know that the Hostiles and the Others are now the same. There is no Dharma, and hasn't been for a long time.

Does Rousseau get her own group (now that I suppose Desmond is an "honorary" Lostie)? ;)

I think Herk was referring to "Hostiles" as what we on t he fuselage called the "ferals"

Alpert is wearing what looks to be a very modern and expensive-looking watch in the scene after "the purge". http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-97978.html


Guess he wished himself up on.:undecide: Seriously, this raises so many questions...like why all these years later, is Dharma still getting food drops? Didn't anyone notice the purge? Why would they have kept on feeding them? How do they have $ to get things like fancy watches? So...confused...

First of all..it seems that no One has ever been born on the Island. So they are not Natives in the true sense of the word. That storyline of Ben being the dude who was born on the Island has now collapsed.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1543515#post1543515

The point being that Ben is interested in fertility because no one has ever been born there. Ben used that lie to become the Leader of the Others(hostiles) and to seem special..when in fact he is a just a liar.






Well, nobody's been conceived and then born on the island, we do know that Alex and Aaron have been born there (potentially more?) which really does explain Ben's/The Others' obsession over them.


Interesting point, with Jacob being the only "original inhabitant" ... maybe the hostiles and Dharma are one in the same; and Dharma's "higher-ups" made up the "hostiles story" that we're being led to believe now. After all, we've seen our Losties leadership doing the same...

It's crazier than 50 gallons of crisco oil at a velcro convention.

WAIT a minute!!
Where is everybody getting that the hostiles are the original inhabitants of the island? That is NOT what Ben said!
Right when he was about to shoot Locke Ben said about the Dharma initiative - "They came here seeking harmony but they couldn't even coexist with the islands original inhabitant"

Inhabitant not Inhabitants. Ben was refering to only One inhabitant! Not a group of them. Really I replayed it 6 times to be sure. I thought he was referring to Jacob as the original inhabitant.

~~~
Im Puzzled

I'm definitely hearing a plural "inhabitants" -- there's a clear "s" at the end of Ben's sentence. Closed captioning also confirms this.

I originally thought they were Black Rock survivors but that would put them over 100 years old. Either the fountain of youth is somewhere on the island or the lack of birthing children didn't happen until years later.

my thought is that the show is going to start incorporating aspects of the Lost Experience into it and help fill in that backstory. here's how...



Richard doesn't age because he and the other Hostiles-turned-Others are all immortal or near immortal. This is due in part to several reasons:

1) The Hostiles arrived on the island by way of the Black Rock ship.

2) The ship, captained by Magnus Hanso (Magnus = Latin for "large or great", so "Hanso the Great"), crashed on the island, killing Magnus. He is buried near the Black Rock according to the big wall map.

3) Magnus Hanso was probably named after Albertus Magnus, a German philosopher, rumored to have created an Android (with the powers of speech, thought, and according to some reports, a soul), as well as the Philosopher's Stone. The Philosopher's stone was believed to have created artificial and unnatural metals and materials, and also a potion of youth or long-lasting life. This just begs comparison to Magnus' grandson Alvar Hanso's Life Extension Project.

4) Others have mentioned on the board that the Hostiles seemed like evil people. If they really are descendents or remnants of the Black Rock, they were part of the crew on a slave ship. What's more evil than that? Helps explain the shallow pit of skeletons, right?

5) If you take a look at the photo on www.thehansofoundation.org (http://www.thehansofoundation.org/), you'll see (at least what I think) is a vast similarity to our pictures of Jacob. In my opinion Jacob is Magnus Hanso trapped in death on the island.

I think they are those who have been shipwrecked on the island....including original crew members of the Black Rock.

Fountain of Youth/Healing kind of stuff going on here....

Agreed - the Island seems to get regular castaways, maybe somehow it draws them, and they make up the 'native' population.

Certainly the Hostiles we saw were not native to the South Pacific area - However they spoke modern English with a US accent. Also, they seemed pretty comfortable with modern weapons and using poisonous gas. Since taking over the DHARMA facilities it seems they are quite comfortable living with modern luxuries too.

Judging by the non-ageing Alpert it seems quite possible that there are a lot of people from 'througout the ages' there.

Just a guess, but maybe the people drawn to the Island by 'fate' get the most benefit from the anti-ageing whereas those who were brought there by human hand (DHARMA, Mittelos) don't.

I'm definitely hearing a plural "inhabitants" -- there's a clear "s" at the end of Ben's sentence. Closed captioning also confirms this.

Thank you for checking on this. I didnt have closed captioning on mine. I went and replayed it a few more times. Honestly sometimes now I hear it as both ways. Sometimes sounds like with a faint S at then end and then others distinctly without. About 50-50. Im still not totally convinced. Has anyone else checked on it yet?

~~~
Im Puzzled,, ,,,can't ya tell?:biggrin:

I thought it was Cindy too, so I looked up the screen cap. Her name tag says Casey.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-81.html
I'm not sure if this means she ISN'T Cindy. Here are two pics to compare:
Cindy (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1256-444.html)
Casey (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-1287-79.html)


Definitely a strong resemblance - and my first thought when watching the episode was 'Cindy'. Still, look-a-likes have been a regular feature of the show, so who knows?

I'm on board with the hostiles being another part of DHARMA. It would explain why DHARMA had makeup kits with fake beards http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-980-630.html

So...Who are they??? Outlaws? Dharma Sabotuers? Random People Who Just Got Stuck On The Island? Or....Something Else?

I firmly believe they are something else.

I think as was indicated in the episode the Hostiles are the original island inhabitants. Maybe aging really slow because of the Islands healing properties (hence Alpert). I believe that after the "purge" and Ben grew into his leadership role and recruited other people Tom,etc and others began crashing on the island Rosseau etc he used the hostiles "old" appearance etc as a cover (hence the fake beards etc).

I think Ben was the link the Hostiles needed to get in contact with the outside world. Or in another word, the Hostiles conned Ben from childhood and molded him to their liking and what now looks like their dislike...Back to the con...

They manage to get Ben to re-infiltrate Dharma, (most likely by making him believe he's special by making him a "symbolic" leader) live his life until the time comes to kill everybody (including his father) and then take over Dharma and the funds that go with it I imagine.

It really looks like the Hostiles are having problems reproducing and are ready to go to great lenght to get someone pregnant to term on the Island. They skillfully used Ben to get information on the world, it's technology, it's psychology, etc etc etc...Richard is very old. I cant wait to see who else is a Hostile! I think they are direct descendants of the four toed statue people. TPTB kept talking about the show being a great archeological dig...We are starting to see ruins and old structures that still need explanation! Starting with the damm statue...;)

Hope we get to see what prompted Richard to leave the Island and go work for Mittlelos!!!