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View Full Version : Jacob is held Prisoner/Hostage by Ben


imid
05-10-2007, 12:39 AM
I got the feeling that jacob is being held in that place against his wishes. Plus there was that suspicious looking barrier around the house that looked like some kind of dust. Ben picked some of it up i think this is keeping him confined to that house.
Releasing him is probably bad news for everyone on the island.

mama
05-10-2007, 12:57 AM
Ashes to ashes - dust to dust - maybe those are bodies of dead people?

Selene1212
05-10-2007, 01:01 AM
I agree completely about Jacob being kept prisoner. I think he is an entity of some sort.

Irishcoda
05-10-2007, 01:13 AM
He does seem to be under Ben's control--Ben seemed to be shaking him and saying something like okay so now you've had your fun, stop it.

scottnews
05-10-2007, 01:22 AM
The dust has to be some kind of barrier. There is no other reason why they would key in on it.

wentwj
05-10-2007, 01:28 AM
At first I thought the dust was a barrier but then I had a way out there theory which... is almost certainly wrong... anyway here goes:

What if the dust is connected to another entity we know that happens to be made up of what seems to be predominately black powder. It could have possibly been some kind of dormant smokie... though again, i doubt it.

jedimaster
05-10-2007, 01:33 AM
I think it is more the fact that before only Ben could see or hear Jacob. That is why Jacob reached out to Locke and in turn is why Ben shot Locke.

pisceschick
05-10-2007, 01:53 AM
I've seen in movies and read in books about a ring of protection made from salt by practitioners of witchcraft. This ring of ashes reminded me of that.

dwolk311
05-10-2007, 05:17 AM
yeah, def being held hostage. i thought the line was gunpowder though.

CorpseFX
05-10-2007, 05:28 AM
ill repost what i think it is here because i think its pretty legit:

anyone who reads Warren Ellis' comic "FELL" would have seen a "ritual" that could very well be what the show is using (i think it appears in issue #2 if i remember right). it stems from Cambodia and consists of a perimeter of ash (human ash) around a place for protection (or from the quote below could be many things.. invisibility as protect or in this case imprisonment). also, premature fetus' are used in the issue... as we've seen, the 'island' (or some force) usually kills the mother prematurely (second trimester?) thus killing the fetus.

but the theory could be... the failed birth ash around jacob's house as protection... keeping jacob invisible (see quote below) and inside the perimeter .

and

Many Cambodians believe that mummified foetuses taken from young women and girls have powerful magic properties, giving the holder powers ranging making them immune to prosecution to invisibility.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1289757.php

Deadshot
05-10-2007, 05:29 AM
I've seen in movies and read in books about a ring of protection made from salt by practitioners of witchcraft. This ring of ashes reminded me of that.


Yup.The wikipedia entry on Magic Circles is pretty interesting regarding this. It eve goes into stuff like being a kind of nexus between dimensions etc.

dvg
05-10-2007, 05:59 AM
ill repost what i think it is here because i think its pretty legit:



and



http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1289757.php


Maybe it's Ben who kills the pregnant women. He's capable. He needs the ashes of
dead babies to keep Jacob in check. The whole thing about fertility is a red herring
devised by him and when Juliet is brought to the island he desperately wants to
get rid of her before she knows too much? But if that is the case, he would have let
her go when she asked to be let go - perhaps that really *is* impossible.

dwolk311
05-10-2007, 06:06 AM
Maybe it's Ben who kills the pregnant women. He's capable. He needs the ashes of
dead babies to keep Jacob in check. The whole thing about fertility is a red herring
devised by him and when Juliet is brought to the island he desperately wants to
get rid of her before she knows too much? But if that is the case, he would have let
her go when she asked to be let go - perhaps that really *is* impossible.

i also think ben's responsible for all the women dyings after childbirth...not deliberatley. but somehow, in the same way he's responsible for his mother's death, and that's why he's so freakin obsessed with the fertility thing, because before he came to the island, it was allll good and no one died after having a baby. or before the baby.

Damian254
05-10-2007, 07:02 AM
I wouldn't say that Ben is keeping Jacob hostage, but I think he's keeping him in his dilapidated condition. Jacob is not getting better and needs John to help him b/c Ben won't. That's why (I think) Ben shot him b/c he has to keep Jacob like that to achieve his agenda.

Exodus666
05-10-2007, 07:17 AM
Very good catch linking the soil to this, John tasted it remember, and this is not the FIRST time we have tasted Soil that has been salted.
In the episode the Questiomark Eko tastes the soil that makes up the questionmark on the ground, and explains that its been salted, apparently to prevent growth in that particular line.

Now again with the Salted earth.


-Exodus

lostlocke
05-10-2007, 07:21 AM
absolutely Ben has Jacob under some kind of power, I don't know whether it's exactly like holding him prisoner, It has to be more than that, but I definitely think that Locke has to live in order to help him. Why would they set up such a great storyline to kill Locke? Ain't gonna happen!

very-lost
05-10-2007, 08:41 AM
Ben began to panic when he realized that Locke heard him.

Jacob was reaching out to Locke to "rescue" him from Ben. :undecide:

khill3210
05-10-2007, 11:08 AM
I thought it was just beach sand. My first thought was that the sand on the island had some kind of property which prevented Jacob from crossing it. Since the island is surrounded by a beach, that would mean that the whole island is a prison for Jacob. Perhaps Ben managed to trap him in that shack by putting a ring of sand around it (thus limiting Jacob to a smaller portion of the original prison).

Brooke Elaine
05-11-2007, 01:06 AM
I thought it looked like sand a lot, too. Then I thought of the beach, how they seem to be safe there. Though, the entire island isn't surrounded by beach, there are rocks/cliffs.

Dash Riprock
05-11-2007, 05:54 PM
Prisoner, yes. Ben locked the door from the outside. I think Ben was picked to be a sort of medium for Jacob. He was young and naive, with a grudge against his dad. Locke is similar, except for not being young.
Jacob's plea to Locke showed he wanted Locke to be his medium; Ben acted out of jealosy in shooting Locke. You could tell by the looks on the faces of the Others, as John & Ben left, that they wanted to see if Locke would be "the one."

Pythagoras99
05-11-2007, 06:33 PM
I agree completely about Jacob being kept prisoner. I think he is an entity of some sort.

Aren't we all?
100%
Ben began to panic when he realized that Locke heard him.
Jacob was reaching out to Locke to "rescue" him from Ben. :undecide:

I think that's exactly right. Ben is holding Jacob and his powers prisoner, so that he can keep lying to the Others that he's reporting Jacob's will, when in fact he can't see him or hear him at all. That's the deception at the root of his power. Ben probably killed Jacob's original liason and told everyone that Jacob had lost patience with him and appointed Ben in his place. You can see how Ben keeps everyone in fear of Jacob, but in reality Ben didn't fear him at all, because he somehow has him tethered with that ash circle and who knows what else. I think all that Jacob can do right now is act through the smoke monster (see the thread I posted with "help me" audio from Smokey.)

I agree that Ben is probably causing the pregnancy deaths. We've seen that thought can influence what happens on the island. Ben's subconscious belief that he's responsible for killing his mother is causing the mothers' immune systems to treat the fetuses as hostile, which is what Juliet said she thought was happening. Maybe the first person it happened to was Annie.

coley144
05-12-2007, 09:05 AM
Salt is used as a barrier to prevent spirits crossing. Witches put it across windows and doors or around their houses to keep any spirits out. You can also use it when casting a ritual circle for the same reason.

Holy Water has salt in it for exactly the same reason.

I don't know what that circle was made of but some connection with salt would make sense and also tell us what Jacob is.

Anarion
05-30-2007, 02:43 PM
I've seen in movies and read in books about a ring of protection made from salt by practitioners of witchcraft. This ring of ashes reminded me of that.

you're right. it's a form of witchcraft, or voodoo. but it may be used as a barrier of sorts, and my guess is that Ben is using this ring to keep Jacob within it's bounds, and then Ben is carrying out his own desires under Jacob's name so that his people don't overthrow him. Which would be why he says to Locke "Help Me"

Mothling
06-01-2007, 02:16 PM
I think its pretty much obvious, as many before me have said that this circle around the shack acted as a barrier of sorts, or in Jacobs case, like a prison cell.

But the real question is, how and when did Ben become knowlegable in the Occult arts?

Dellamona
06-05-2007, 07:45 AM
I don't think Ben is holding Jacob prisoner. We have seen what Jacob can do (getting angry at the flashlight) I'm sure he could kill Ben if he really wanted too.