I have been anxiously awaiting tonight's episode for many weeks now - ever since I read that there would be a Dharma Initiative flashback of sorts. I really did think we'd see The De Groots, who have fascinated me since the first glimpse of the orientation video.

Good to see Dr. Candle, even if it was another video.

What happened to them?

this is what I hate about the writers - they think we've forgotten about the DeGroots. :mad: I adored this eppy but the Annie thing and no DeGroots really were huge disappointments for me. I guess they ended up dead like all the other Dharma people, but sheesh - why didn't we get at least a glimpse?

I kept thinking that if they were on the island and were killed as part of the purge, we would have had them as flashback characters. Since they weren't in the episode tonight, it has me wondering about the continued support of the Dharma Initiative well after The Purge, and who is funding it.

What about The De Groots?

For some reason, I got the impression that the couple in the car Roger flagged down were the De Groots. Didn't pan out that way, though.

What if the teacher in the classroom (the blonde) was, in fact, the 'Karen DeGroot' of the show?

I have been anxiously awaiting tonight's episode for many weeks now - ever since I read that there would be a Dharma Initiative flashback of sorts. I really did think we'd see The De Groots, who have fascinated me since the first glimpse of the orientation video...

Good to see Dr. Candle, even if it was another video.

What happened to them?

I kept looking for them too, South Shore! Even in the background, that would have been cool!

I think all we got to see were the low level Dharma employees. Like Roger "Work Man". The De Groots and Candle and possibly others have to be running or overseeing the hatches somehow.....

this is what I hate about the writers - they think we've forgotten about the DeGroots. :mad: I adored this eppy but the Annie thing and no DeGroots really were huge disappointments for me. I guess they ended up dead like all the other Dharma people, but sheesh - why didn't we get at least a glimpse?

There will be other glimpses.

I think when the hostiles took over they just pretended to still be workers to reap the benefits of those off the island. Remember they could still order food and supply drops from the chess game. But now the benefactors know the camps have been taken over since Locke entered '77' after he beat the game.

Ben showed Locke the open grave of the Dharma folks killed but ... remember when Locke went into the cave to save Eko, there were a bunch of skeletons with Dharma jumpsuits.

I believe that it is a hiding place for Dharma peole AFTER the initial purge. They hid in the caves but were found by the "Hostiles" and gassed. There are proably other similiar locations near each of the DI research stations.

Keep in mind too that there are still a bunch of Dharma folks working in all of the hatches. My wife and i talked about this last night. After the purge, Marvin Candle must have spoken to everyone left who were in the stations and told them that a terrible virus had occurred; - wouldn't have admitted that the hostiles actually killed them all. Thus the Quarantine painted on the inside of the hatch entrances.

Keep in mind too that there are still a bunch of Dharma folks working in all of the hatches. My wife and i talked about this last night. After the purge, Marvin Candle must have spoken to everyone left who were in the stations and told them that a terrible virus had occurred; - wouldn't have admitted that the hostiles actually killed them all. Thus the Quarantine painted on the inside of the hatch entrances.

Good call. It could have still been part of the control built in to the original experiment, but this is a good theory! Actually the more I think about it, the Hanso Foundation was working on a virus or sorts in the Lost Experience. Mittlewerk had said that it was tested on an island if I remember right.

I think we saw Karen and Gerald way back in S1. Adam and Eve. The bodies that were found in the jungle with the black and white stones. So I would have to say, either pre-purge or hostiles showing respect after the purge. Jack's attempt at visual carbon dating put the bodies at about 20 years ago if I remember right. Not sure how this fits into the time line, but my thinking is pre-purge for sure. Maybe they were natives in the first place, or more swashbuckling Black Rock people who didn't live forever.

Yup, I think Adam and Eve are the DeGroots ;)

Now that it's been mentioned, I think it makes sense- in a way - that the DeGroots could have been sailors on the Black Rock.

DeGroot is a Dutch name, and the Dutch were great sea-farers, so they could have crashed there on the Black Rock and made their way off the Island somehow, come back, been killed for bringing technology to the Island, etc.

Just throwing that out there.

I was wondering if we ever got confirmation that the DeGroots were actually on the island. In the Dharma video we saw them teaching, etc.
I thought maybe they were training the original crew to send to the island. Maybe they never went or stayed on the island. I would have to watch the original Dharma video again. Does anyone remember?

Well I doubt we really see all the head honchos in Ben's flashback... I wonder if anyone has screencaps of this, but at the end of the ep, when Ben sees the dead Horace we get to see his "dharma tag" and I am reasonably sure the first 4 letters are "Math...".

Can anyone confirm?

What if the teacher in the classroom (the blonde) was, in fact, the 'Karen DeGroot' of the show?
I'm pretty sure that blonde is the same woman who picked up Roger, Emily and baby Ben in the beginning. Not Karen.

Yup, I think Adam and Eve are the DeGroots ;)


Quoted for truth.
That was my thought exactly. It would make sense that we would see them first as a writers "hint" to what's coming. Also, they'd be laid to rest at a special spot.

I'm pretty sure that blonde is the same woman who picked up Roger, Emily and baby Ben in the beginning. Not Karen.
Yes, Looks like Horace Goodspeed and Olivia the teacher were the two from the opening scene, picking up the Linus family, then getting Roger a job.

I think Dharma was a sham, a cover for something way more sinister than we've been shown, and the DeGroots were just actors supporting the sham.

That's why they were not seen last nite.

Well I doubt we really see all the head honchos in Ben's flashback... I wonder if anyone has screencaps of this, but at the end of the ep, when Ben sees the dead Horace we get to see his "dharma tag" and I am reasonably sure the first 4 letters are "Math...".

Can anyone confirm?

Looking at it now, I can see..

Horace
Mathemat....

He also has an Arrow station patch on his jumpsuit.

I still think Horace and Olivia are Gerald and Karen Degroot. In the one scene with Roger and Horace, Roger tells him "If I'm going to be shot at, I want hazard pay. I want another 30 grand. I know you have it." That tells you Horace is high in DHARMA to be able to give or not give raises to employees.

I still think Horace and Olivia are Gerald and Karen Degroot. In the one scene with Roger and Horace, Roger tells him "If I'm going to be shot at, I want hazard pay. I want another 30 grand. I know you have it." That tells you Horace is high in DHARMA to be able to give or not give raises to employees.

Wouldn't Horace and Olivia be contemporaries of the DeGroots?

Wouldn't Horace and Olivia be contemporaries of the DeGroots?

Now that you mentioned it, you're probably right.

I would like for Karen and Gerald Degroot to still be alive somewhere. Also, could the little girl who befriended Ben, be Karen and Gerald's daughter?