The line when Alpert asked ben in the flashback if his mother died on the island was emphasized for a good reason. It seems that all the visions I can remember of people on the island were of those who had died there on the island(with the exception of Walt because Walt is special). Ben seeing his mother seemed to indicate to me that that made Ben special similar to Locke being special in the eyes of the hosties. What do you guys think?

I definitely noticed that question from alpert and I do think it is important. And yes it's very possible that Ben seeing his mom makes him special and would explain why the others would make him their leader.

Definitely agree with penyours. Although Yemi and Jack's dad have also appeared on the island, neither died there.

Yemi and Jack's Dad didn't die on the island but their bodies ended up there. Maybe Ben's Dad had his Mom cremated and brought the remains with him to the island.

Christian Shepard supposidly died in australia then was seen on island. But that whole question is debatable. His mother died outside of Portland, 32 miles away, right? Juliets job was "not quite in portland". So were Emily (bens moms) died seems to be important. That whole first scene when they came running out of the woods onto the highway reminded me of the movie "the Village".

Hmm...it occurs to me that Locke saw his mother on the island in DEM. Charlie saw his dead mother on the island in Fire + Water. Not sure what that means, if anything. The thing that I do find interesting is that Ben's mother died during premature labor...not in Portland, but just outside it.;) Makes me wonder if that is part of his fascination with the birth problems on the island. :confused:

What about Kate's horse? As far as I know it has never been anywhere near the island, but she saw it there.

Definitely agree with penyours. Although Yemi and Jack's dad have also appeared on the island, neither died there.

Both of their bodies were found on the island and I think that that's what is important as far as visions of dead people on the island :cool:

or perhaps the fact that she didn't die on the island confirmed to Alpert that Ben was seeing a manisfestation of smokey. Did Alpert ask Little Ben what she said? If so it would be a message from smokey and her comments that it wasn't time yet, would be an indication to Alpert that Ben would join them when he got older.

Hmm...it occurs to me that Locke saw his mother on the island in DEM. Charlie saw his dead mother on the island in Fire + Water. Not sure what that means, if anything. The thing that I do find interesting is that Ben's mother died during premature labor...not in Portland, but just outside it.;) Makes me wonder if that is part of his fascination with the birth problems on the island. :confused:

I don't recall seeing Locke's mother in DEM on the island. Was it part of the dream sequence? Dream visions are definitely very different on the island than actually seeing people there. There seems to be many different ways to interact with the spiritual aspects of the island. My main point is that Alpert knew that Ben was special by Ben seeing his mother there in person. Alpert specifically went out of his way to make this point clear and it was for a reason. He could have just said, wow your mom died and you saw her. But he actually said, "Did she die here on the island?".

Oh and as far as Kate's horse and everything else seen on the island like Sayid's cat, that is all a different story, I'm talking here about people's dead bodies on the island that have actually gotten up and walked around :biggrin: .
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or perhaps the fact that she didn't die on the island confirmed to Alpert that Ben was seeing a manisfestation of smokey. Did Alpert ask Little Ben what she said? If so it would be a message from smokey and her comments that it wasn't time yet, would be an indication to Alpert that Ben would join them when he got older.

Alpert did ask Little Ben what she said. He seemed very interested in her answer. I think your on to something.

or perhaps the fact that she didn't die on the island confirmed to Alpert that Ben was seeing a manisfestation of smokey. Did Alpert ask Little Ben what she said? If so it would be a message from smokey and her comments that it wasn't time yet, would be an indication to Alpert that Ben would join them when he got older.

I really like this theory. It would also tell Alpert that Ben could be trusted.

So it could be very likely that Alpert knows quite a bit about smokey or has had many interactions with him. Along with the whole ageless alpert idea, a richard FB looks like it would be really interesting!

Along with the whole ageless alpert idea, a richard FB looks like it would be really interesting!

Alpert is definitely the best candidate for a flashback from the natives.

or perhaps the fact that she didn't die on the island confirmed to Alpert that Ben was seeing a manisfestation of smokey. Did Alpert ask Little Ben what she said? If so it would be a message from smokey and her comments that it wasn't time yet, would be an indication to Alpert that Ben would join them when he got older.

I so never thought of this! What a great interpretation! And I was wondering what Ben's mom meant by that, but it sorta got lost in the shuffle of the rest of the episode.

I also noticed the emphasis on the question, but interpretted it differently. Clearly there are some folks who can see (and interact with) images on the island - some alive and some dead (Walt, Jack's dead respectively).

I interpretted the question this way: that a death off the island is somehow "different" than a death on the island - otherwise, why would it matter?

Don't know what to do with it - but if Albert's been there for a long time without appearting to get older, then does that affect deaths on the island?

I interpretted the question this way: that a death off the island is somehow "different" than a death on the island - otherwise, why would it matter?

I was thinking the same thing. There has to be some substantial difference in death on the island and off the island. We all know that several characters have seen dead people (usually ones with some importance) walking around the island. Isn't it curious that nobody has seen the people who died on the island walking around? I'm not sure exactly what to make of this, but it does seem interesting.

Zulu- we see Ana Lucia walking around and talking to Eko immediately after her death.

Zulu- we see Ana Lucia walking around and talking to Eko immediately after her death.

Excellent point. Forgot about that one. Now I have no idea what to think! AAH! This is making my brain hurt.

It is possible that Walt has already died on the island but it has not been revealed to us.

If not on the island, perhaps in the ocean/water as Walt was seen by Shannon and Sayid dripping/drenched wet.

Hard to know since it is LOST...



"The simulation of something which never really existed." -Jean Baudrillard
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Baudrillard)
"The authentic fake." -Umberto Eco
:confused:

Both of their bodies were found on the island and I think that that's what is important as far as visions of dead people on the island :cool:



Actually the body of Christian Shepard has never been found. TPTB said in a Q&A that we should be wondering about that fact. (I found this info in an article on entertainmentweekly.com that Jeff Jensen wrote, cant remember which one of the many it was though).

Zulu- we see Ana Lucia walking around and talking to Eko immediately after her death.

This was in a dream.
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Actually the body of Christian Shepard has never been found. TPTB said in a Q&A that we should be wondering about that fact. (I found this info in an article on entertainmentweekly.com that Jeff Jensen wrote, cant remember which one of the many it was though).

Yes, while the body hasn't been found(good point), it makes the most sense that it is somewhere on the island. While re-watching season two I'm starting to see somewhat of a pattern. It seems that there is a distinct difference between dreamt visions and physical manifestations. I'm going to go back to season 1 and think about this further. I don't really know, but I do know that Ben seeing his mother there on the island was special and so was her message.

I agree that there must be significance to dying on the island (or in walt's case just being there) -- such that it makes it possible for some entity (such as spirits on the island -- I don't think Smokey) to manifest themselves using that physical form. I think the appearance of someone who didn't die there, like Ben's mom, is a completely different phenonenon. Whether or not this makes Ben special, I'm not sure.

With Ben's mom, unlike all other cases (three I can remember), all indications are that she was the manifestation of her actual spirit. And also, in all the other cases, the manifestation apparently tried to kill the person who saw it. Christian lead Jack to fall down a hill and over a cliff, from which Locke had to save him. Walt lead Shannon to surprise Ana Lucia (while the whispers were saying "shoot" IIRC). And Yemmi lead Eko into Smokey.

fyi - there is a town called St. Helens about 31 miles north of Portland... is that the volcano Mt St Helens? there's also a large lake - Vancover Lake... "The Village"/"The Island" theories don't seem far-fetched to me

It is possible that Walt has already died on the island but it has not been revealed to us.

If not on the island, perhaps in the ocean/water as Walt was seen by Shannon and Sayid dripping/drenched wet.




If you recall, after Shannon saw a vision of Walt wet, we all saw Walt alive. So, unless Shannon was seeing a vision of the future you are speculating about, that doesn't make a lot of sense. Nice font.

Definitely agree with penyours. Although Yemi and Jack's dad have also appeared on the island, neither died there.


That makes three people that we know of that have seen people on the island that have died off island...

Jack-Christian
Locke-Yemi (assuming he died of his gunshot wound prior to the plane crash)
Ben-His Mother

Three pretty important characters...I'm convinced that Locke's communion with the island is significant (I think that Locke was born there...but that's another story...) Jack has some connection too that is yet to be revealed.

Point being, yes...I agree that this statement was significant...these three have more in common than seeing dead people.

Any ideas of what that could be?

That makes three people that we know of that have seen people on the island that have died off island...

Jack-Christian
Locke-Yemi (assuming he died of his gunshot wound prior to the plane crash)
Ben-His Mother


It would make a lot of sense if bodies being present on the island were significant. Christian's Coffin and Yemi's body were both found on the island. My main point is solidified in the fact that Alpert wouldn't have said, is her dead body here on the island or was she burried here on the island. It is much too awkward to say something that bizarre to a young child without going in depth. Hence the 'did she die here on the island'. That's why it would be so special for Ben to see his mother there on the island.

I'd also like to add to the discussion about why Christian Shephard's body was never found:

Yemi's body was also gone when Eko came back to search the plane again. Also, immediately after that is when we start seeing Yemi (or Smokey as Yemi, if that's what you believe) communicate with Eko. I was always pretty sure this wasn't a coincidence, as the 2 incidents were so close together.

Yeah, it was as if Richard was testing Ben to see if he has actually seen something, or was making it up in his head.

Ben's response was that his mother told him 'not yet' or that he wasn't ready,....that's almost the same thing that Richard told Ben when Ben wanted to join Richard's group. He told him it could happen,...but later,...to be patient.

Does this mean that Richard knows that Ben is special?

Also, do we know for sure that Vincent the dog is alive,...if so, why didn't Walt and Michael take him with them when they left? I think Vincent was on the jet, but died, and 'something' or 'somebody' manifested Vincent. He's not really the dog anymore, but he is alive. Just a guess.

Also, do we know for sure that Vincent the dog is alive,...if so, why didn't Walt and Michael take him with them when they left? I think Vincent was on the jet, but died, and 'something' or 'somebody' manifested Vincent. He's not really the dog anymore, but he is alive. Just a guess.

I tell ya, if nothing unusual is revealed about that dog by the end of the series, I'll be very disappointed :biggrin:. Animals as a whole on Lost seem to always have somewhat of mystifying aura surrounding their actions. Vincent, Kate's horse, Sayid's cat, the Hurley-bird, the Polarbear; They are all framed by the camera in such a way that adds a level of mystery that is so deeply embedded in lost. We are definitely lead to believe in many vincent scenes that he is special in some way. When he lead shannon to her eventual death, or when he pulled the blanket off of nikki and paulo, or when he mysteriously survived the crash with out even a scratch. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one of the final shot's of an episode to be of a decomposing vincent found somewhere in the jungle :biggrin:

Locke's mother appeared in a vision in Season 1 when Boone and Locke found the plane and the plane crushed Boone. Not sure if Locke's Mom is dead....

How do we explain Hurley's vision of Dave? Was this his imagination?

I tell ya, if nothing unusual is revealed about that dog by the end of the series, I'll be very disappointed :biggrin:. Animals as a whole on Lost seem to always have somewhat of mystifying aura surrounding their actions. Vincent, Kate's horse, Sayid's cat, the Hurley-bird, the Polarbear; They are all framed by the camera in such a way that adds a level of mystery that is so deeply embedded in lost. We are definitely lead to believe in many vincent scenes that he is special in some way. When he lead shannon to her eventual death, or when he pulled the blanket off of nikki and paulo, or when he mysteriously survived the crash with out even a scratch. Let's just say I wouldn't be surprised at all to see one of the final shot's of an episode to be of a decomposing vincent found somewhere in the jungle :biggrin:

I'm with you on this one. Vincent is a key to this dog gone thing. :)

Locke's mother appeared in a vision in Season 1 when Boone and Locke found the plane and the plane crushed Boone. Not sure if Locke's Mom is dead....

How do we explain Hurley's vision of Dave? Was this his imagination?

Like I said, Locke's mother was seen in a dream in season 1. Dream visions are different, as they are not actual physical manifestations. As far as Hurley's Dave goes, he imagined Dave as a real character before he was even on the island. The island may play a part in enhancing his mental illness but there never even was a dave in the first place, so he doesn't really play a part.