Volcanic ash? Is this volcano actually active?

The insides of the TNT that rousseau grabbed? Maybe she's gonna blow jacob up? Or maybe its dead people ash? That would go with the whole creepy vibe of the scene.

maybe it's to keep jacob in one place sho he doesn't get out.

I agree with caforrest. It seemed to have been placed around the perimeter of something. Creepy...

maybe it's to keep jacob in one place sho he doesn't get out.

Oh, that is a creepy thought, but then again, this is Lost. You could be right.

Maybe it's the marker for the (i don't recall the exact name) Dark Region of the island. Definitely seemed like some sort of marker, much like the salt ? at the Pearl Station

Anyone ever saw The Skeleton Key?? That powder could be something similar

That was an interesting scene in which Ben and Locke pass over a line of dirt, ash or something. Ben went out of his way to step over it and was annoyed with Locke spending much time with it.

I'd assume that it forms a ring around Jacob's cabin, and is some kind of protective ring, either to keep something from coming in, or perhaps for keeping Jacob from coming out.

I think the gray powder is smokie in its unactivated form.

I think the gray powder is smokie in its unactivated form.

Exactly what I was thinking (and said in the "Jacob" forum). Though now I wonder if it's there to keep Jacob in or if Jacob is the will that controls the grey powder.

I posted this in another thread, but I think that "ash" line or whatever is smokie in its unactivated form. Danielle did say that smokie was a security system for the island, so maybe it's Jacob's security system or it's a security system designed to keep Jacob within a certain perimeter.

There were so many things going on in this episode that this seems to have been overlooked. It sure was interesting. It did seem like some voodoo stuff going on. This episode sure did make it seem that Lost is going towards a supernatural theme. I'm not sure if that's a good thing but this was an amazing episode

I think it's how Ben keeps Jacob in the cabin.

It reminded me of the dust in The Skeleton Key. Kate Hudson used it to keep ghosts at bay.

if it is ash, then it was a product or bi-product of something that burnt. (?)

but, as earlier posted, the location of the material appeared to be specific to jacobs house.

IMO, there is a large and complicated connection between jacob, the smoke, the magnetic power (island), and that grey ashy stuff.

I saw it as a nod to the bit about the island's volcano in the school room. I figured the ash meant maybe Jacob lives up near the volcano.

Soooo many possibilities.

But for now...I'm sticking with the easiest answer and calling it volcanic ash.

I think it's how Ben keeps Jacob in the cabin.

I do too. It reminds me of that CW show, Supernatural, where they're always hunting ghosts and demons. :biggrin:

I think it's how Ben keeps Jacob in the cabin.

i also am down for this theory, but can we discuss the how and why?

i immediately thought of voodoo. like in that one kate hudson movie where she puts some kind of powder on the floor as a barrier

It seems to me it was volcanic ash. Earlier in the Episode we learned in the flashback there is a volcanoe on the island. Ben and John Seemed to be walking up hill on rocky terrain.

The ash could have magnetic properties that trap Jacob. Jacob clearly doesn't like electricity, which produces magnetic fields. It may also be protecting him (from smokie?).

It's also possible that Locke - because he was at the epicenter of the hatch's magnetic disturbance - is special to Jacob. It may explain why Locke can't see Jacob but other people can. Desmond's experience with altering time (he was also at the epicenter) suggests that the hatch implosion caused a time disturbance rooted in magnetic energy .

It looked like a deliberately laid circle of ash... If it is volcanic ash, it looks like someone laid it down precisely in a line..

I'm leaning towards a protective circle... some ancient or druid ritual to keep Jacob in the cabin...

The ash could have magnetic properties that trap Jacob. Jacob clearly doesn't like electricity, which produces magnetic fields. It may also be protecting him (from smokie?).

I like this idea.

It seems to me it was volcanic ash. Earlier in the Episode we learned in the flashback there is a volcanoe on the island. Ben and John Seemed to be walking up hill on rocky terrain.


this is what i think also. the classroom scene FB has us and the kids learning more about the volcano that is on the island. (i say more because we knew bout the volcano back when we saw danielles maps)

so, if we apply the rule of < FB's being used to give specific info > ,then IMO a subject that reocurrs is enough for theory fodder


The ash could have magnetic properties that trap Jacob. Jacob clearly doesn't like electricity, which produces magnetic fields. It may also be protecting him (from smokie?). It's also possible that Locke - because he was at the epicenter of the hatch's magnetic disturbance - is special to Jacob. It may explain why Locke can't see Jacob but other people can. Desmond's experience with altering time (he was also at the epicenter) suggests that the hatch implosion caused a time disturbance rooted in magnetic energy .


on tha other hand, i have a foot in this lake too. my gut tells me that there is something about the ask that is important to understanding jacob's situation. the "locke/ash" scenes wouldn't of been so long if it was something ordinary.


It looked like a deliberately laid circle of ash... If it is volcanic ash, it looks like someone laid it down precisely in a line.

i would have to see a wider shot of the surroundings of the cabin before i can surely say it was "laid in a line". besides, we didnt see the back yard. if the cabin IS on the volcano, then locke/ben were moving up the volcano to reach the front door. meaning that the back of the house would be farther up the volcano, and therefore having a larger spread of ash.

if it is a cirlce of ash around the place, im down. i just wanna see it.

not to hose ideas, i love seeing what people think, but theres no way thats ash...it was quite coarse, not near as fine as ash would be. with as detail oriented as TPTB are, they wouldnt slip up on that detail.
In my opinion, if you can figure out what that line was, you get a mega clue to either a)what Jacob is or b) what Smokey is because its either keeping one of them in, or the other out.
My investigation has already begun
Oh and hi, first post =D

Looking at screen shots the line is in fact curved so it could be presumed to be a ring around the cabin.

I posted this in the Jacob thread but it seems to have more relevance here

I dunno if anyone else has posted a link to this yet but the Wikipedia entry on a "Magic Circle" is pretty interesting including this:

The main reason for casting a circle is to contain any energy raised by the ritual that follows. As more and more energy is raised from chanting and dancing the energy becomes more concentrated. After the circle has been cast it is believed that if forms a "cone of power"; which starts on the ground as the circle shape and extends upwards to make a point, thus creating a cone shape. When magic is done being performed, the energy is then released through this point to enter the universe and serve its purpose.
The purpose of circle casting isn't always for protection. The caster often uses it to meditate or host rituals or even pray.
This circle is also believed to be an area which straddles two dimensions or realities. It becomes a sacred space between the mundane world and the otherside. Also known as the "veil between worlds

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_circle#Maintaining_the_circle

maybe Jacob said 'help me' because he's stuck inside his house and can't get out because theres a line of salt or sulfer around peremeter

Exactly what I was thinking (and said in the "Jacob" forum). Though now I wonder if it's there to keep Jacob in or if Jacob is the will that controls the grey powder.

Mayber it's both. We saw the power Jacob displayed inside his cabin just because he got angry about a flashlight. Now imagine what happens if he goes outside, but can't cross that powder line (at least not in his current form). And so maybe if he wants to leave the perimeter, he has to interact with that powder and become smokie. I still don't have a theory as to why there would be a perimeter in the first place, though.

anyone who reads Warren Ellis' comic "FELL" would have seen a "ritual" that could very well be what the show is using (i think it appears in issue #2 if i remember right). it stems from Cambodia and consists of a perimeter of ash (human ash) around a place for protection. also, premature fetus' are used in the issue... now, that doesnt step directly to the show (so far)... but its quite possible that the Comic Book Nerd Link could be similar.

Fell issue #2. see it for more info. or if someone can computer nerd more details on it. go ahead.

but the theory could be... the failed birth ash around jacob's house as protection... from.. who knows what. keeping something in or out.

maybe Jacob said 'help me' because he's stuck inside his house and can't get out because theres a line of salt or sulfer around peremeter


Maybe. I am wondering if it is gunpowder. For whatever reason, Ben didn't want to
step on it, but it didn't seem to be harmful.

to add to my "theory" above.

Many Cambodians believe that mummified foetuses taken from young women and girls have powerful magic properties, giving the holder powers ranging making them immune to prosecution to invisibility.

http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1289757.php

Maybe. I am wondering if it is gunpowder. For whatever reason, Ben didn't want to
step on it, but it didn't seem to be harmful.


my vote goes to gunpowder

For some reason it reminded me of the closing verse of Coleridge's Kubla Khan (even those self-avowedly ignorant of Ozymandias have surely read Kubla Khan ;) ).

And all who heard should see them there,
And all should cry, Beware ! Beware !
His flashing eyes, his floating hair !
Weave a circle round him thrice,
And close your eyes with holy dread,
For he on honey-dew hath fed,
And drunk the milk of Paradise.

I wonder if this "ash ring" was the end result product of what Kate & Sawyer were mining for earlier in the season?!

I think it's the TNT. We did see Danielle hauling a HUGE box of it out the other day. I think she put it all around and is going to light it up. Totally something Danielle would do, no?

I think it's the TNT. We did see Danielle hauling a HUGE box of it out the other day. I think she put it all around and is going to light it up. Totally something Danielle would do, no?

I totally agree. I also think it was put there recently. It rains nearly every day--wouldn't it have washed away if it was there earlier. My theory is that Danielle is somehow in cahoots with Ben. They blow up Jacob. Blame it on Locke since he's blown up everything he has had an opportunity to. Ben shot Locke and will simply tell the others in his group that Locke blew Jacob and himself up. Can't wait to see Ben's face when Locke comes striding out of the jungle yet again.

That was an interesting scene in which Ben and Locke pass over a line of dirt, ash or something. Ben went out of his way to step over it and was annoyed with Locke spending much time with it.

I'd assume that it forms a ring around Jacob's cabin, and is some kind of protective ring, either to keep something from coming in, or perhaps for keeping Jacob from coming out.

That reminds me of an X-Files episode where salt was used to keep zombies away. What exactly is being kept out of that cabin?

I don't think it's Danielle's TNT. Why would Ben not say "hey what's this?" when he saw it? No he knew what it was and why it was there. Wasn't there a Stephen King novel where some form of ash is laid to protect someone from a spirit? Was it the novel Thinner?

I think it's the TNT. We did see Danielle hauling a HUGE box of it out the other day. I think she put it all around and is going to light it up. Totally something Danielle would do, no?

Yes, but why now? Also, if it was TNT, why wouldn't Locke say, Hey, why is there TNT here? He doesn't seem to be the type of person who would miss the smell of TNT.
And he did get up close and personal with it. We could have been shown that because his doing that is what helped him survive a gunshot to the abdomen. Maybe that's why Ben was so ticked that he stopped and touched it.

When Locke picks it up and has a smell, he quickly puts it away with a disgusted expression. Clue for sulphur?

I think it's how Ben keeps Jacob in the cabin.

I think so too.

In keeping with (pseudo) scientific explanations, it could be some sort of substance with magnetic properties? Seems like magnetism plays a big role on the island as does ground contact. Perhaps it's some sort of magnetic, ground-up rock? Weren't the others just recently breaking up rocks?

Or maybe it's gunpowder recently laid down.

Guess we'll find out sometime in 2010 :)

Could be Smokie in another form.... I believe that it can morph and I am starting to believe that Jacob does control Smokie... maybe Smokie is the way that he can still roam about his island....... while being held in that cabin.

Watch the scene again. The grey substance is placed in a TRENCH that was DUG out of the earth. A shallow one to be sure, but it is still a trench. Anyone here do any type of yard work that involves digging should agree with that.

Now as to what it is.... I have to say some form of crushed rock. Keep in mind that if it is for keeping something in / out, rocks and crystals are believed to hold some sort of power against or for things in nature. So, this stuff could be anything. The smell effect that Locke had doesn't really tell us anything.

I'm thinking it's a combination of salt, nitro-glycerine and rock. This way, the salt would form the "barrier" and the nitro would light up should it be needed. The rock is used to stabilize and weight the end result. I am by no means a geologist, but that is what it "looked" like to me...

Interesting, Finnster. Maybe Kate and Sawyer's rock-breaking exercise wasn't quite so pointless after all...

It looked like a deliberately laid circle of ash... If it is volcanic ash, it looks like someone laid it down precisely in a line..

I'm leaning towards a protective circle... some ancient or druid ritual to keep Jacob in the cabin...

Wait.. wasn't there something like this around the hatch that Eko found underneath the drug plane? I remember him saying something about a circle where nothing would grow.

Wait.. wasn't there something like this around the hatch that Eko found underneath the drug plane? I remember him saying something about a circle where nothing would grow.

Exactly, and then just as now we saw a character TASTE the ground.
Back then Eko tasted salt, claiming it was there to prevent growth.

My money goes on Salt again, in a circle around the cabin, a timeold traditional sue for keeping ghosts out.
I don't think its used to keep Jacob in, i think Jacob has it there to keep the ghosts of the Island out, we certainly know this Island can make u see dead ppl after all.

-Exodus

The ash could have magnetic properties that trap Jacob. Jacob clearly doesn't like electricity, which produces magnetic fields. It may also be protecting him (from smokie?).


I really like that thought and it would explain Jacob's hate for technology in his current state.

When I saw the stuff, I immediately thought of gunpowder... then salt or a powder used as a barrier against supernatural beings. No idea if that's where they are going with this, but being an avid viewer of the show Supernatural, it was definitely on my mind.

Who knows what it is... or when we will find out.

I thought it was the TNT that Rosseau took. It would be in her character.

The problem with that theory is that Ben seemed fully aware of and not alarmed by its presence.

So there was a bit of emphasis put toward Locke stopping to observe the ash then doing a sniff test on it. Followed by a weird look from Ben. So I'm wondering, could the ash be not ash, instead some kind of powder that makes you hallucinate? It seems to make sense. It took a while to take effect that's why Locke couldn't see him at first. But once he started to hallucinate everything that happened wasn't real, he was just imagining it. Possibly the sequence of events starting from the point he walked up to the chair to the time he got shot was all a hallucination. Might be why Jacob looked like Locke. He was beginning to see himself as the leader of the others and when his hallucination forced him to project a mental image of what jacob would look like, he saw himself.

Plus, it's not the first time Locke took some strange substance to induce a hallucination. A la sweatlodge.

A lot of people have mentioned The Skeleton Key and Kate Hudson using red powder in the movie in conjunction with this episode's black ring of ash around Jacob's cabin. Kate Hudson uses something called goofer dust, that includes graveyard dirt and brick dust among other mystical and ordinary ingredients, which she thinks will keep her enemies at bay but it actually brings hard luck to that which it surrounds.

I'm not expert on hoodoo by any means but it is a curiousity of mine. I may have gotten all of this wrong. I'm also sure someone else one this board can post more in-depth information about the movie and this episode and the possible connections. However, as soon as I saw that black trail of filament, I thought of goofer dust.

In this case, it may be a filled with a chemical that defuses or traps Jacob's powers of levitation and his violent temperament.

If it is a circle around the cabin, it must be pretty far away from the cabin because when Locke saw it there was still plenty of daylight, and when they got to the cabin it was dark.

not to hose ideas, i love seeing what people think, but theres no way thats ash...it was quite coarse, not near as fine as ash would be. with as detail oriented as TPTB are, they wouldnt slip up on that detail.
In my opinion, if you can figure out what that line was, you get a mega clue to either a)what Jacob is or b) what Smokey is because its either keeping one of them in, or the other out.
My investigation has already begun
Oh and hi, first post =D

sorry if someone has already said this....but there are many different types of ash. Volcanic ash is actually much more coarse than you would think. Here is what wikipedia has to say about it:
"Unlike the ash that forms from burning wood or other combustible materials, volcanic ash is hard and abrasive, rather than soft and fluffy. It does not dissolve in water, and it conducts electricity, especially when it is wet."

OK, call this a crazy theory but...

Whatever it was, the powder/dust was a greyish-black color...so happens to be smokey. Also we know that smokey is in some way bound to the ground which is why he couldn't jump over the fence. We also know that smokey seems to avoid the beach as well, which is a sandy beach.

I'm thinking that invisible Jacob who could move things around is probably smokey. The 'hostiles' or early inhabitants might have had to deal with an invisible monster and maybe somehow discovered that he picks up some of what he passes over. So with a ring of dark powder at least you can see what you're dealing with. This theory at least accounts for Smokey's avoidance of the beach as well as his general black/grey color.

if the TNT is unstable, why would you waste time trying to extract the powder (especially with how much is laid out on the ground)? and what good is extracting the powder once its uncompressed in any sort of destructive sense? if you ever lit up open gun powder in a cannister (like youd get at farm and fleet) thats not compressed, it ignites and makes an explosive mushroom cloud and leaves little ground damage (that was with a firework mortar in it too haha). youd get some intense heat for a short time in that ring but its hardly going to do anything outside of igniting, creating some intense/short heat and making some after effect smoke. loud, yes. would you want to stand by it? of course not. i just dont see it as that practical of an idea.

doesnt seem like a well thought out "Trap" if you ask me.
has to be something else as a ring of protection.

it could be volcanic ash like people said.
for being in a jungle, it could have to be moderately resistant to condensation (or so we assume). its way too grey to be salt or sand.

Can't believe I'm the first to say it... nanobots :biggrin:

I was thinking mabey we are looking at this wrong ,and mabey Jacob is the bad force and that smokie is the good (purges the bad by scanning?) kinda like a ying and yang thing and one controls or cancels out the other and Ben is keeping Jacob in/trapped (mabey with the ash/powder line) to fill the island with only good people, which may also confirm the eutopian (perfect island) theorys on smokie.........just a thought NOOOO flames be gentle ;)

two things - 1) maybe the ash line (what ever it is) is keeping the other ghosts on the island away from jacob
2) which side of the line was the mass grave on?

So there was a bit of emphasis put toward Locke stopping to observe the ash then doing a sniff test on it. Followed by a weird look from Ben. So I'm wondering, could the ash be not ash, instead some kind of powder that makes you hallucinate? It seems to make sense. It took a while to take effect that's why Locke couldn't see him at first. But once he started to hallucinate everything that happened wasn't real, he was just imagining it. Possibly the sequence of events starting from the point he walked up to the chair to the time he got shot was all a hallucination. Might be why Jacob looked like Locke. He was beginning to see himself as the leader of the others and when his hallucination forced him to project a mental image of what jacob would look like, he saw himself.

Plus, it's not the first time Locke took some strange substance to induce a hallucination. A la sweatlodge.

That would make me so happy. Next ep Locke would wake up in the Jungle and Ben and the real Jacob would be standing over him. But somehow I don't actually see that happening.

And the dirt is definitely not the dynamite (which is a dinstinctly different thing than TNT) from the Black Rock. No way could you powderize that without it igniting.

Maybe. I am wondering if it is gunpowder. For whatever reason, Ben didn't want to
step on it, but it didn't seem to be harmful.


Gunpowder was my initial thought as well.

*hic*

I was thinking mabey we are looking at this wrong ,and mabey Jacob is the bad force and that smokie is the good (purges the bad by scanning?) kinda like a ying and yang thing and one controls or cancels out the other and Ben is keeping Jacob in/trapped (mabey with the ash/powder line) to fill the island with only good people, which may also confirm the eutopian (perfect island) theorys on smokie.........just a thought NOOOO flames be gentle ;)


i've been a HST fan for more than half of my life, but even so, it sounds like you've slipped into something gross and hungry, and might need to cool off on the lsd for a while.

Taking my clue from the classroom scene, I think the white powder is bicarbonate of soda.

Gunpowder was my initial thought as well.

*hic*

To the people who have asked why there might be gunpowder, perhaps it is a
sort of failsafe. If all hell breaks loose, then they ignite it as a barrier.

I think it is a protective circle, it traps Jacob so he cannot leave the cabin, thus only Ben goes and sees him. It is supernatural, even though I don't like that aspect of it. Jacob seems like a spirit that has been trapped maybe by Ben. He said "Help me" to John because someone needs to break that circle so he can escape/pass on/whatever. I bet if that circle of ash/sand is broken Jacob will be freed and Ben doesn't want this.

I wonder if this "ash ring" was the end result product of what Kate & Sawyer were mining for earlier in the season?!

Exactly what I was thinking. It was obviously put there by someone intentionally. So why? Either to keep something in or out. Well it didn't keep Locke and Ben out so what is it keeping in or containing?

If the rocks that Kate and Sawyer were breaking up have some sort of magnetic properties, maybe that ash/dust is affecting Jacob's power(what ever that may be), allowing Ben to manipulate him. Ben did say that Jacob didn't like tecnology and when Locke turned on the flashlight it looked like something jump started Jacob. Flashlight having opposite affect as ash ring.?

Just don't ask me how cause I can only handle one thought at a time with this show. Especially the last epi. TMI! Brain on overload! Must go rest now. :drowsy:

I think it is a protective circle, it traps Jacob so he cannot leave the cabin, thus only Ben goes and sees him. It is supernatural, even though I don't like that aspect of it. Jacob seems like a spirit that has been trapped maybe by Ben. He said "Help me" to John because someone needs to break that circle so he can escape/pass on/whatever. I bet if that circle of ash/sand is broken Jacob will be freed and Ben doesn't want this.


I agree with this.

I wonder about the relationship between Jacob and Ben. Ben obviously doesn't much like dealing with him, but does speak to him with his "that's enough!' as if he (Ben) has some kind of authority over him. Yet Ben supposedly takes orders from him, and is pretty careful and respectful in general when speaking to him. Remember in the Swan when Ben is nervous about having to report that he has failed in his mission, to someone who is unforgiving? I had thought that was one of his lies, but now it seems to apply to Jacob. So is Jacob a malignant force? If Locke were to help him and he somehow escaped, would he unleash a lot of bad stuff?

I can't decide if the smoke monster has anything to do with Jacob or not. He could credibly just be the security system run amok, and Jacob could be a separate force. Also, I never thought I'd hear myself say this, but is there an animal connection? The portrait of the dog does not seem at all similar to Vincent, but if an animal happened to wander across the ash line, could Jacob inhabit it and wander the island?

There is still a lot to learn.

I've read most of the comments on this thread, but not all, so I hope I'm not repeating something already posted. Anyway here's what Wiki says about the dirt trail in their Lost write-up of this episode:

"As Locke and Ben climb to Jacobs quarters; Locke notices peculiarities in the mud and examines it. Later in the room Ben seems to control the situation with Jacob and Jacob asks for Locke's help. Circles of mud are used in magick to prevent someone from entering or exiting".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_Behind_the_Curtain (Trivia section)

After what we witnessed in the cabin, that explanation makes alot of sense. :eek2:

i've jumped in and out of this topic. i came to the conclusion that if actually ben stepped over the ash, then the ash is somehow dangerous. im going back now to watch again, but i'll ask this before.., did john step over the ash? i dont remember ben bringing it to lockes attention.

if we knew what the ash actually is, then we could better theorize its use.

also, i DO believe that the ash material goes around the cabin inclosing it in a ring of whatever.

i've jumped in and out of this topic. i came to the conclusion that if actually ben stepped over the ash, then the ash is somehow dangerous. im going back now to watch again, but i'll ask this before.., did john step over the ash? i dont remember ben bringing it to lockes attention.

if we knew what the ash actually is, then we could better theorize its use.

also, i DO believe that the ash material goes around the cabin inclosing it in a ring of whatever.


Ben stepped over it, then Locke bent down, smelled it, then also stepped over it. For some reason they brought it to our attention.

1. Ground cold iron (and this is WoD)

2. Ground silver (and this is WoD)

3. Ash (and it's still WoD)

All the theories really make sense and could fit. Perhaps it is a form of smokey. With all of the magentic occurences on the island i think maybe smokey is a huge cloud of magnetic filings being controlled by a large electromagnet under the ground. Perhaps this is the source.

Ben stepped over it, then Locke bent down, smelled it, then also stepped over it. For some reason they brought it to our attention.

after watching again,

http://s36.photobucket.com/albums/e13/napalmsoup/lost/?action=view&current=3.flv

it is obvious, so, i now agree.

however, ben never tells locke that he too should step over it. locke does anyway, just because ben did.

i wish john would of asked some questions!!



1. Ground cold iron (and this is WoD)

2. Ground silver (and this is WoD)

3. Ash (and it's still WoD)

imadork, but whats WoD



All the theories really make sense and could fit. Perhaps it is a form of smokey. With all of the magentic occurences on the island i think maybe smokey is a huge cloud of magnetic filings being controlled by a large electromagnet under the ground. Perhaps this is the source.

the Smoke would have to be "magnetic filings" that have tha ability to change color and produce speech, [ if we go w/the theory which claims that Yemi/Jacks' dad/Kate's horse/etc. were actually the Smoke. ]

Ben stepped over it, then Locke bent down, smelled it, then also stepped over it.

watching again, after locke smells it he kinda recoils. not sure what that would mean, but *maybe* could discount theories that the powder is something simple like ash or salt.

to add to my "theory" above.



http://news.monstersandcritics.com/asiapacific/news/article_1289757.php

That is horrific! Perhaps a little too gruesome for a mainstream tv series? perhaps not. I cant get over that article though! :(

Oh and what is WoD? episode title? cant be bothered to check

watching again, after locke smells it he kinda recoils. not sure what that would mean, but *maybe* could discount theories that the powder is something simple like ash or salt.

im sure there will be many opinions on reading locke's body language when he smells the "ash", so, here's mine..

.. IMO, i wouldnt describe his actions as a recoil [i know u said "kinda"]. his head didn't really jerk away, nor did his expression change in a way that showed dislike. i saw it more as cautious. like, a wafting tech. i.e. a head nod in conjuction with a inward/upwaward hand motion to safely sample scents of materials.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

so, if the material is the ash of something that has been burnt, what is it ash of?

and if its not ash, then what is it? ground up rock?

im sure there will be many opinions on reading locke's body language when he smells the "ash", so, here's mine..

.. IMO, i wouldnt describe his actions as a recoil [i know u said "kinda"]. his head didn't really jerk away, nor did his expression change in a way that showed dislike. i saw it more as cautious. like, a wafting tech. i.e. a head nod in conjuction with a inward/upwaward hand motion to safely sample scents of materials.


yeah 'recoil' was maybe too strong a word. maybe it would be clearer to say that i don't feel his reaction was consistent with smelling something that has little/no smell. he sniffed it, moved his hand away fairly quickly, and then stepped over the line.

imagine you see a pile of white powder (salt) and want to know what it is. you'd probably have a sniff.. realise you couldn't smell anything.. then have another, deeper sniff.

to me, his reaction seemed more like consistent with smelling something with a easily detectable odour.

I think the ash line is one of these things:
1. some way to keep something in
2. some way to keep something out
3. there to make someone think that there's something fearful inside to encourage them to stay out
4. What Smokey does when he/she/it is napping
5. What Smokey is doing when Jacob is not sending him/her/it out to do his bidding

After reading this whole post, it seems that the most common explanations are as follows:

1. Volcanic Ash
If it's volcanic ash, then someone definitely put it there. There's no way there would be a nice little trench of volcanic ash laid out naturally from an eruption. It also seems to me that the volcanic ash would get washed away by the rain indicating that whatever it it, it's been freshly laid down. However, I don't have a lot of physical expreience with volcanic ash and water, so I don't know.

2. Ashes of dead bodies
That seems crazy. There was a lot of material. Where would all the dead bodies come from? We already saw the mass grave from the purge.

3. Rousseau'sTNT
As previously stated, it was extrememly unstable (Ask Arnzt) and how would you lay down a line of it without blowing yourself up? Also, again, there was a lot of it. More than the amount of TNT that Rousseau took.

4. Gunpowder
That's what it looked like to me, but, again, it would be washed away by rain.

5. Smokie
I don't think so. Smokie is nothing but dark black. This material was gray.

6. Rocks from Sawyer and Kate
Unlikely, it would take much more processing to produce powder from the rocks that they were busting up.

7. Salt
If Jacob is really a ghost, I think this explaination makes sense.

8. Hallucinagen
I think this is a winner idea. Given that most materials would wash away by the rain and therefore this pile must be fresh, I think that Jacob had this laid down because he knew Locke would see it. And Locke would be curious about what it was and examine it. Also, we've already seen that hallucinations have been induced on the island before, so it could easily explain what followed. Remember also that the lantern busted in Jacob's house and started a fire, but then was magically extinguished and the lantern was fixed. I definitely think that the whole thing could have been a hallucination by Locke that was purposely done by Ben.

yeah 'recoil' was maybe too strong a word. maybe it would be clearer to say that i don't feel his reaction was consistent with smelling something that has little/no smell. he sniffed it, moved his hand away fairly quickly, and then stepped over the line. imagine you see a pile of white powder (salt) and want to know what it is. you'd probably have a sniff.. realise you couldn't smell anything.. then have another, deeper sniff. to me, his reaction seemed more like consistent with smelling something with a easily detectable odour.

can we agree that it DID have a smell?



After reading this whole post, it seems that the most common explanations are as follows:

1. Volcanic Ash


what does volcanic ash smell like?
how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?
2. Ashes of dead bodies


like you said, we saw the remains of the DI.
but if it is human ash, how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?

3. Rousseau'sTNT


ditto,
but if it is, how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?

4. Gunpowder


see above

5. Smokie


i like this.
the Smoke in a more solid state? ie. water/ice/fog
what would the Smoke smell like?

6. Rocks from Sawyer and Kate



would be a nice tie-in
but again,how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?

7. Salt


what would be the purpose of a salt ring?
locke would recognize salt smell?


8. Hallucinagen


the entire scene?
the "ash" in question?
or just in tha cabin?

I think the gray powder is smokie in its unactivated form.

Cool idea! :thumbsup:

In 'The Brig' Rousseau was looking for dynamite so I just assumed thats what she'd done with it. But this being Lost I guess you shouldnt just assume!

can we agree that it DID have a smell?




yep that's my feeling :)

anti-hero seems rather certain that this mystery substance is arranged in a circle. All we saw was a line. For all we know it could be arranged as a square, or box, a la Ben's "magic box". Perhaps it wasn't completely metaphorical.

Salt is used by witches (and others) to repel spirits because they won't cross it. They put it across doors and windows or in a circle.

It's also used in Holy Water for the same reason.

Spirits aren't just people who are now dead - they can be all sorts of things - elemental creatures, demons, gods and goddesses - all get called spirits. So this could be the spirit of the Island or a ghost.

Looking at the circle it seemed grey suggesting it wasn't salt, which tends to be white. However they might have been trying to suggest a similar thing. Circles keep things in and out. I'd suggests that this one keeps something in hence the 'Help me' comment.

It would only prevent physical crossing of the barrier not anything else.

I'd say it was pumice - just saying.

Ok, I have no idea what it is, but today I got to wondering; what happens when there is one of the frequent (and heavy) rainstorms on the island? Wouldn't the ash circle just wash away?

If this is a way to keep Jacob in, it hardly seems reliable...

Anyone ever saw The Skeleton Key?? That powder could be something similar

This was the first thing that I thought of, and I think it is relevant as the guy in this film who was bedridden wrote 'help me' in his own shit on the bedcovers and when the girl who was there to look after him did a spell to cast out the spell that made his tongue tied. When the spell started to work he managed to say 'help me' again (sorry can't remember any of their names or even the actors who played them). In the film they saw ghosts in the mirrors of those who had walked in the house before them, like on the island. Also in the film brick dust was used to keep out enemies, but equally it was used to keep people in - i.e keep him bedridden. Irrevantly i think the characters name was Ben, but anyway, any one who hasn't seen this film I strongly recommend it. My point is that because Jacob said 'help me' I believe he is being kept in that house by someone and that we will only see his true power when he leaves the circle. The line could be made up of volcanic ash which doesn't wash away by rain. There must be some relevance to the salt circle at the pearl station but I'm not sure what.

anti-hero seems rather certain that this mystery substance is arranged in a circle. All we saw was a line. For all we know it could be arranged as a square, or box, a la Ben's "magic box". Perhaps it wasn't completely metaphorical.

good point. your right, there is too little known.

1. Ground cold iron (and this is WoD)

2. Ground silver (and this is WoD)

3. Ash (and it's still WoD)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is WoD?

I like the idea about it being smokey in it's unactivated form. Jacob=Smokey would work for me.

Jacob can come and go as he pleases, earlier Jacob took care of Juliets sister among other things.

The line around his house is to keep smokey from entering the perimeter. We have already learned smokey can't go thru sonic fence, other thing he can't handle is heavy sand with iron.

i've been a HST fan for more than half of my life, but even so, it sounds like you've slipped into something gross and hungry, and might need to cool off on the lsd for a while.


<<Put's down the tabs and walks away **paranoid look over shoulder**:eek2:

Please, Please, Please don't let it be that this ring is there to 'keep Jacob in'. This powerful entity who can supposedly cure cancer can be imprisoned by a ring of ash or whatever it is? This is kind of like a vampire is afraid of crucifixes. It is just too hokie and will be stupid if this is the case. I think that this is a ruse by Ben to control the Others. He puts a ring of ash around the cabin and tells them not to cross it. This would go along with all the brainwashing stuff. The theory that it is Smokey in his inactive form is interesting but........eh I don't know.

After reading this whole post, it seems that the most common explanations are as follows:

1. Volcanic Ash
If it's volcanic ash, then someone definitely put it there. There's no way there would be a nice little trench of volcanic ash laid out naturally from an eruption. It also seems to me that the volcanic a sh would get washed away by the rain indicating that whatever it it, it's been freshly laid down. However, I don't have a lot of physical expreience with volcanic ash and water, so I don't know.

2. Ashes of dead bodies
That seems crazy. There was a lot of material. Where would all the dead bodies come from? We already saw the mass grave from the purge.

3. Rousseau'sTNT
As previously stated, it was extrememly unstable (Ask Arnzt) and how would you lay down a line of it without blowing yourself up? Also, again, there was a lot of it. More than the amount of TNT that Rousseau took.

4. Gunpowder
That's what it looked like to me, but, again, it would be washed away by rain.

5. Smokie
I don't think so. Smokie is nothing but dark black. This material was gray.

6. Rocks from Sawyer and Kate
Unlikely, it would take much more processing to produce powder from the rocks that they were busting up.

7. Salt
If Jacob is really a ghost, I think this explaination makes sense.


8. Hallucinagen
I think this is a winner idea. Given that most materials would wash away by the rain and therefore this pile must be fresh, I think that Jacob had this laid down because he knew Locke would see it. And Locke would be curious about what it was and examine it. Also, we've already seen that hallucinations have been induced on the island before, so it could easily explain what followed. Remember also that the lantern busted in Jacob's house and started a fire, but then was magically extinguished and the lantern was fixed. I definitely think that the whole thing could have been a hallucination by Locke that was purposely done by Ben.
Dude!! That would be a huge line! Can you imagine the size of straw it would take to... Oh never mind.

Probable ANSWER

Always Notice themes in OTHER places of the story to figure out the part your questioning

An explanation of the Sonic fence was in the Opening Dharma scene Video. It was part of the Theme

A community CLOSED off by a highly complex fence.

Parallel

The Shack was VOID of Technology

Its Fence was the polar opposite of the sonic fence. Not only was it not modern technology but it was meant to keep Jacob IN

Whatever it does..the theme shows its a fence

<<Put's down the tabs and walks away **paranoid look over shoulder**:eek2:

ha. its nice to find a like minded person. dr_gonzo_usa@hotmail.com was my first email when i first started going "online" i was like 16. (im 36 now)

anyway, if your down to talk further bout hunter, hit me w/a PM. unless the fear has already got you.



Please, Please, Please don't let it be that this ring is there to 'keep Jacob in'. This powerful entity who can supposedly cure cancer can be imprisoned by a ring of ash or whatever it is? This is kind of like a vampire is afraid of crucifixes. It is just too hokie and will be stupid if this is the case. I think that this is a ruse by Ben to control the Others. He puts a ring of ash around the cabin and tells them not to cross it. This would go along with all the brainwashing stuff. The theory that it is Smokey in his inactive form is interesting but........eh I don't know.

i understand your viewpoint, but what i dont understand, is how you arrived at it.

could you identify the pieces of information you got from watching the ep., and show me why you think things like: I think that this is a ruse by Ben to control the Others. He puts a ring of ash around the cabin and tells them not to cross it. and This powerful entity who can supposedly cure cancer can be imprisoned by a ring of ash or whatever it is?

im not trying to be a jerk, i honestly want to discuss this further. so please, read this, and keep in mind that i am not being conversationally agressive.




After reading this whole post, it seems that the most common explanations are as follows:

1. Volcanic Ash
If it's volcanic ash, then someone definitely put it there. There's no way there would be a nice little trench of volcanic ash laid out naturally from an eruption. It also seems to me that the volcanic a sh would get washed away by the rain indicating that whatever it it, it's been freshly laid down. However, I don't have a lot of physical expreience with volcanic ash and water, so I don't know.

2. Ashes of dead bodies
That seems crazy. There was a lot of material. Where would all the dead bodies come from? We already saw the mass grave from the purge.

3. Rousseau'sTNT
As previously stated, it was extrememly unstable (Ask Arnzt) and how would you lay down a line of it without blowing yourself up? Also, again, there was a lot of it. More than the amount of TNT that Rousseau took.

4. Gunpowder
That's what it looked like to me, but, again, it would be washed away by rain.

5. Smokie
I don't think so. Smokie is nothing but dark black. This material was gray.

6. Rocks from Sawyer and Kate
Unlikely, it would take much more processing to produce powder from the rocks that they were busting up.

7. Salt
If Jacob is really a ghost, I think this explaination makes sense

i like when a poster actually addresses each question of a fellow poster. so, now, how about we use multiple viewpoints of the same subject in order to start a conversation that could lead to possible answers.

two heads are better than one, but 50 are better than that.

here's my viewpoints, lets compare:

post #81After reading this whole post, it seems that the most common explanations are as follows:

1. Volcanic Ash

what does volcanic ash smell like?
how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do? 2. Ashes of dead bodies
like you said, we saw the remains of the DI.
but if it is human ash, how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?
3. Rousseau'sTNT
ditto,
but if it is, how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?
4. Gunpowder
see above
5. Smokie
i like this.
the Smoke in a more solid state? ie. water/ice/fog
what would the Smoke smell like?
6. Rocks from Sawyer and Kate
would be a nice tie-in
but again,how did it come to be arranged in a specific circle?
what good would that arrangement do?
7. Salt
what would be the purpose of a salt ring?
locke would recognize salt smell?

8. Hallucinagen
the entire scene?
the "ash" in question?
or just in tha cabin?

I realise that this thread hasn't been touched in a while but I feel that the debate is still relevant, and I have a thought which may support the 'protection' point of view.

During the French Renaissance (15th to 17th centuries) a form of clowning developed in France, the performers of which were known as the Bouffons (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouffon). I've linked to the Wikipedia article, but the following is not mentioned there (Wikipedia isn't the fountain of all knowledge that it is assumed to be :) )

As well as entertaining people within a crowd scene, the Bouffons would also run through towns mocking people in their doorways. Often, before they began their routine, a Bouffons would draw a circle on the ground around him. The thinking being that the circle would protect the performer from prosecution (they were, after all, mocking people in quite an explicit way). I've always felt that the line around the cabin was a means of protecting Jacob in some way, though it could of course be the complete opposite - to keep him restricted.

Anyway, there is some historical precedent for the idea of a circle around a person protecting them in some way

M

Interesting, Michaud, thanks.

I'm not going to even pretend that I have the slightest idea WTF is up with the circle of powder, but it feels to me that its presence indicates something metaphysical is going on. I didn't see the Skeleton Key, which other people in this thread were referencing, but I do know that circles are used all the time in traditional ceremonial magick to contain spirits. And salt is used as a boundary to protect oneself from ghosts, evil spirits, etc.

If the circle is being used to "contain" Jacob (and it seems to me that it is), that doesn't necessarily negate Jacob's "power," as some people wondered earlier. It could be a way of subjecting him to limits, though.