Did Ben say that they were leaving now because Jacob decided to move it up? Does Jacob care about the women that much? Or is it just Ben making this call. And why now, again? What was the rush? Why does Jacob/Ben need to act all of a sudden? Was it because he knew that the Losties would be prepared the next day?

I think Ben lied about Jacob telling him to go now. I don't know what his motives are, but I don't believe him at all. After last weeks episode and Jacob saying 'help me' I'm not so sure that he's directing Bens actions. It seemed to me that he was more of a captive, but that's just my own personal vibe.

i honestly beleive Ben cannot hear or see jacob because he is not the chosen one ...locke is ...Ben is just grabbing at straws right now to keep his power.

I really think Ben was making the call. I have a feeling that Ben thinks Locke will be after him, even though he just shot him. Ben knows how well Locke heals on this island. You could be right though- I really like your idea that Jacob somehow knows the Losties would be prepared the next day.

i honestly beleive Ben cannot hear or see jacob because he is not the chosen one ...locke is ...Ben is just grabbing at straws right now to keep his power.

Quoted for truth.

Ben was completely psychotic in this episode. I think the encounter with Jacob just set him off the deep end, now he's in a fit of jealousy (I should know) and literally pretending to be in any kind of position of power at this point.

I think Ben lied about Jacob telling him to go now. I don't know what his motives are, but I don't believe him at all. After last weeks episode and Jacob saying 'help me' I'm not so sure that he's directing Bens actions. It seemed to me that he was more of a captive, but that's just my own personal vibe.
I totally agree....this was a total Ben call. Jacob seems in a way to be Ben's prisoner right now....

i honestly beleive Ben cannot hear or see jacob because he is not the chosen one ...locke is ...Ben is just grabbing at straws right now to keep his power.

I think he can see and hear him, but I think last weeks discussion with him was completely bogus and Ben was just saying what John wanted to hear.

Did Ben say that they were leaving now because Jacob decided to move it up? Does Jacob care about the women that much? Or is it just Ben making this call. And why now, again? What was the rush? Why does Jacob/Ben need to act all of a sudden? Was it because he knew that the Losties would be prepared the next day?


Lillie Taylor needs to rework her song from the movie " Say Anything" and call it Ben Lies instead of Joe Lies.
Of course Ben was lying totally and did you see how nervous he was when he got back.

I loved how Richard kinda questioned it. You could see it on his face. I was ready for him to say...why is Jacob in a rush?

Ben was just invoking the name of Jacob. . .as usual.

Richard sees right thru him. But Richard knows how to be very, very patient. The time to strike Ben down is not yet. Though I'm sure he was in full sympathy with Alex' desperate look at him when Ben gave his "kill" order. Bet her running to get Karl to go warn the losties had Richard's tacit agreement!

Definitely Ben's call. And we knew last week why he was going to move it up - because of Naomi and her satellite phone. The situation with Locke is just making him all the more crazed about it. Desperation doesn't suit him well at all. It's a far cry from the confident (even post-torture) Ben we knew as Henry Gale in the season 2 finale.

Lillie Taylor needs to rework her song from the movie " Say Anything" and call it Ben Lies instead of Joe Lies.
Of course Ben was lying totally and did you see how nervous he was when he got back.


I LOVE that song!!!!!!!:biggrin: I just DVRed that movie AGAIN!!! Anyway, There was a theory on another board that I'm started to get on board with. Just wondering if anyone can back me up here. When Ben got back to camp and Richard started questioning him did anyone else talk to Richard or even look at him? I can only remember Richard speaking to Ben and locke, On the island. I know he spoke to Ethan and Juliet in flashbacks. I'm gonna have to rewatch the scenes with him. But if you watch the scenes with Richard in them it seems like noone ever speaks to or acknowledges him except Locke and Ben, like Bruce Willis in the six scense. Theres a lot of strange things about Richard I wondering if Ben and Locke are the only ones that can comunicate with him. I wonder if we will see a falshback were
He has already died? It's just a theory, I wonder if Jacob is the only one who can't be seen?

Quoted for truth.

Ben was completely psychotic in this episode. I think the encounter with Jacob just set him off the deep end, now he's in a fit of jealousy (I should know) and literally pretending to be in any kind of position of power at this point.

Couldn't agree more. He's off the deep end.

But what I want to know is how/why/when did he get a position of authority with these people to begin with? Why would they follow him to start with when nobody even seems to like him? What are they afraid of?

That Ben sure is one skeaky bastage, though. As you could see from the preview for next week:

it seems he cuts our losties off at the pass before they can get to the radio tower.

Fargin ice-hole!



Coming up next week: Fargin War!!

I think the question we should be asking is why is raiding the Losties camp and abducting the pregnant women *the* priority for Ben at this exact moment? I get the mommy issues he has, and Richard alluded to the fertility side-projects that Ben is involved in, but there has to be another reason this is so pressing.

Ben I believe is making the desicion to go now and most likely it's because he knows about Naomi

Ben is just aserting his power calling for the raid to take place immediatly. The kill order is that Ben is fed up with the Losties. Ben needs the women and if the men have to be killed interferring with the raiding party so be it.

I am wondering were Ben wil go to next?

I think Ben moved the schedule forward because he figured out that Locke had stolen the tape recorder and tipped off the Losties to the upcoming abductions. That's possibly part of the reason he shot Locke. Telling Locke about the intended abductions was a test to see if Locke would be loyal to the Others, or the Losties.

Once Ben shot Locke and returned to camp, he immediately issued orders for the abductions to begin ASAP, before the Losties could have time to prepare. That's why he authorized the killing of any men who resisted, because he knows that Jack, Sayid, etc. will fight.

i honestly beleive Ben cannot hear or see jacob because he is not the chosen one ...locke is ...Ben is just grabbing at straws right now to keep his power.

Well said. I think so, too.

I definitely think that Ben is manipulating everyone, he is not taking orders from Jacob. He is giving the orders and I think everyone is starting to question him, if only in their own minds. It's going to take a really strong character to stand up to him and question him. I think that Ben was threatened by Locke because Locke heard Jacob and that's why he shot him. I hate even writing that. Locke being shot, I hope that Ben gets his in the finale. I don't want him dead, but I want him to be hurt and I want Locke to have his revenge on him.

Lillie Taylor needs to rework her song from the movie " Say Anything" and call it Ben Lies instead of Joe Lies.
Of course Ben was lying totally and did you see how nervous he was when he got back.

Best song ever! Well 2nd best....Phoebe singing "Smelly Cat" is my favorite, but I can't fit that in to the show. ;)

There is no doubt Ben moved things up because of what happened in the shack and what happened with Locke. He is beyond nervous. To me he seemed on the edge of panic. IMO he knows he needs to act now before the rest of the group begins to doubt him even more than they already do and refuse to do his bidding.

I think Ben moved the schedule forward because he figured out that Locke had stolen the tape recorder and tipped off the Losties to the upcoming abductions


This is what I thought when I first saw it, but now I think it is only part of it. Ben is mad/jealous/scared that Locke can hear Jacob. And locke, who may get healed, knows that Jacob is a prisoner, not a string puller. Like it was said, Ben is also affraid of losing his power.

In addition to being a sociopath, I think Ben is a first class, dont pass go, go straight to crazy town, whack-job.

I thought it was definitely Ben making that call, using Jacob's name to make them do it. I really think he is losing it. He didn't even think his own orders would have enough weight- he had to make them Jacob's orders.

I don't think Ben's sanity is quite there, he is just terrified of failing, and angry that things aren't going his way. "Take all the women"?? Ben can't take that his plan might have been compromised.

Ben is on thin ice as a leader. His role has already been completely turned upside with the discovery of Locke beign able to communicate with Jacob. Hving just shot the man who could overthrow him, Ben seems to be in a frantic state of rash behaviour. Yes Richard can see right through it, but considering his age, he knows how to play the waiting game. The name drop of Jacob was for motivation purposes only. Ben knows that Jacob commands respoect, and if he uses his name he is almost gaurenteed cooperation without question. Ben is a liar and a very angry man, he has much to learn and I feel the cost is to great and will claim his life.

i think that ben knows that locke took the tape. he doesn't want everyone else to know so he throws "jacob said" up in the air to get everyone to do it.

Ben is on thin ice as a leader. His role has already been completely turned upside with the discovery of Locke beign able to communicate with Jacob. Hving just shot the man who could overthrow him, Ben seems to be in a frantic state of rash behaviour. Yes Richard can see right through it, but considering his age, he knows how to play the waiting game. The name drop of Jacob was for motivation purposes only. Ben knows that Jacob commands respoect, and if he uses his name he is almost gaurenteed cooperation without question. Ben is a liar and a very angry man, he has much to learn and I feel the cost is to great and will claim his life.

A lot of people are missing the point that Ben is CORRECT in moving his plans up a day early. He's not crazy or jealous and making a mistake. He has correctly surmized that the losties know about their plans and could be ready for them when they arrive. Moving things up a day would probably save the lives of everyone that Ben is sending off on the raid.

As far as he knows, Locke is in no position to warn the Losties. So why the panic? Is it merely because he's nervous that his feritlity plan -- which seems to go against Jacob -- is about to blow up in his face?

Or was Ben warned of Jack's plan? And if he was, who warned him? Danielle? Juliet?

Perhaps... and I am just specualting here that ben knows locke isn't going to die (I am just specualting that he isn't dead, because i want him to be alive so badly, haha)

maybe he figured locke would have recovered in time or something? i dunno
can't wait till next week

Cause after the incident with Locke being able to hear Jacob, he is panicked and angry and in a frenzy to execute his own plans before everyone finds out he is a fraud.

As far as he knows, Locke is in no position to warn the Losties. So why the panic? Is it merely because he's nervous that his feritlity plan -- which seems to go against Jacob -- is about to blow up in his face?

Or was Ben warned of Jack's plan? And if he was, who warned him? Danielle? Juliet?

he's expediting the mission cause Mikhail told him about Naomi and how she can potentially get them rescued. they were going to do the raid last episode till Locke beat Mikhail up.

I'm pretty sure he moved up the date because he figured that Locke was probably the reason why his tape recorder was missing.

Or, alternately, we're about to be showing a (shocking!) revelation that Jack and Juliet were misleading everyone all along, and that in fact the lostaways are being led into a trap on their way to the radio tower, and that the sudden exodus was entirely a ploy by Ben.

Didn't Tom mention that the tape recorder was missing last week? Maybe Ben is hoping to catch the Losties off-guard before they listen to his message to Juliet. I think he realizes that Locke, who obviously has no love for Ben, tipped off the Losties.

ETA: Jason, you beat me to it!

he's expediting the mission cause Mikhail told him about Naomi and how she can potentially get them rescued. they were going to do the raid last episode till Locke beat Mikhail up.


yup, tahts the reason

Moving things up a day would probably save the lives of everyone that Ben is sending off on the raid.

So his total disregard for the lives of the Losties are of no consequence?
No, Ben is now acting as a threatened man. He may know of the Losties plan to defend, given the fact that he ain't no dummy, but he certainly does not want the others to think of him as a passive leader, his aggression is warrented by his desire to remain in power.

he's expediting the mission cause Mikhail told him about Naomi and how she can potentially get them rescued. they were going to do the raid last episode till Locke beat Mikhail up.

This didn't make Ben jump last week. And he doesn't even give this as a reason to Richard.

Ben seems awfully jumpy. And I'm willing to believe that it's well within reason due to what happened between Jacob and Locke. But, again, Ben probably assumes Locke isn't a problem anymore.