...Ben is using Jacob as an excuse to do whatever the hell he wants.
Ben makes up everything that Jacob says, and now I'm almost convinced that Ben cannot hear Jacob talk.

I'm pretty sure Richard and the rest of the gang are catching onto this now. They seemed pretty skeptical when Ben, flustered as all hell, just goes "uhhhhhh yeah! Jacob said to do it now! uhm yeah that's it!"
man he sure pulled that one out of his arse.
lol

Ben is completely losing it, he's goin down, and how!

Ben is completely losing it, he's goin' down, and how!
"That could happen. But you're going to have to be very, very patient." (Richard to boy Ben, in MBTC.)

Richard's been very, very patient. Is the time it could happen about NOW? Stay tuned!

I think Ben never heard Jacob speak. Makes me wonder how he became the leader of the Others in the first place. I think Alpert took him to see Jacob back in the day to test if Ben was 'the one' and Ben was like 'yup i hear him, he says you all have to listen to me from now on', meanwhile he's been faking it the whole time

I think Ben never heard Jacob speak. Makes me wonder how he became the leader of the Others in the first place. I think Alpert took him to see Jacob back in the day to test if Ben was 'the one' and Ben was like 'yup i hear him, he says you all have to listen to me from now on', meanwhile he's been faking it the whole time

I kind of doubt Richard got duped THAT easily. Ben was probably the first one who could actually SEE Jacob, and that was the proof.

I'm just waiting for an epic Ben vs. Locke hero battle to the death with a circle of people around them chanting. lol

But yeah, it is for certain now that Ben has just been "killing in the name of" so to speak. Passing off all his own plans as Jacob's so that the Others will obey him.

I think the look in Richard's eyes tonight is going to lead to some interesting things next season, and possibly next week. I think that quote of Ben's from the preview of "Everything I did, I did for the island" may be him addressing a very ticked off group of Others.

I think there's someone else besides Ben who can hear Jacob. I think Jacob tests people..meaning he lets them hear one thing and see how they run with it. They either do good or bad.

I was just surprised Ben didn't blame Locke on Jacob. "He had an accident" sounds a little suspicious. The Others were putting their hope in Locke, I don't think they're just going to let that go.

think that quote of Ben's from the preview of "Everything I did, I did for the island" may be him addressing a very ticked off group of Others.

That sounds like a very good possibility.

I was just surprised Ben didn't blame Locke on Jacob. "He had an accident" sounds a little suspicious. The Others were putting their hope in Locke, I don't think they're just going to let that go.

They are definitley not going to let it go. Did you see how distraught Alex was when she didn't see Locke come back with him?

I think the look in Richard's eyes tonight is going to lead to some interesting things next season, and possibly next week. I think that quote of Ben's from the preview of "Everything I did, I did for the island" may be him addressing a very ticked off group of Others.

Yes, I was thinking his Other pals might put him on trial like they did Juliet. But I secretly hope Locke comes out of nowhere and kills him. :biggrin: He's a phoney and I'm beginning to think the whole Jacob thing is, too, regardless of the "apparition" we saw last week. It's all one big con on Ben's part, imho.

I hope some tiny shred of this gets resolved next week.
Nine months is too long!

I kind of feel that Locke wont reappear until next season tho... :-(

PLEASE you must use spoiler font when discussing the previews outside the preview section..thank you.

Hey guys for all that its worth I think Jacob is real and the number one reason for that is if he wasnt real then why wouldnt Jack be on the list to begin with. Pickett was really mad when he said that and most people thought that wasnt important but for say that Ben made the List and passed it as Jacobs why wouldnt he have put Jack on since he needs him so JACOB IS REAL:

Hmmmm...what we need is a mutiny.

I'm thinking Richard would be a good one to lead it.

Hmmmm...what we need is a mutiny.

I'm thinking Richard would be a good one to lead it.

I don't think Richard is there to play that kind of role. I hate to use the comparison, but he is like Gandalf: he can help, but he cannot be the actual one to do the deeds.

I think Locke will come back next season and if there is any sort of mutiny, he will lead it, or rather, just displace Ben as leader or kill him.

Locke really made some suprising moves in the Other Camp last week when he forced Ben into taking him to see Jacob. Saying out loud Ben couldn't go get the pregnant women because he's taking Locke to see Jacob, beating up Mikhail, Richard and Alpert not helping Mikhail, Alex giving Locke a gun, etc. This all really undermined Ben's authority and fueled the dissention in the Others. So I interpreted the shooting of Locke and Ben's behaviour back at camp as Ben's way of saying "I'm still in control of everything, don't try anything cause I'll win every time"

Locke really made some suprising moves in the Other Camp last week when he forced Ben into taking him to see Jacob. Saying out loud Ben couldn't go get the pregnant women because he's taking Locke to see Jacob, beating up Mikhail, Richard and Alpert not helping Mikhail, Alex giving Locke a gun, etc. This all really undermined Ben's authority and fueled the dissention in the Others. So I interpreted the shooting of Locke and Ben's behaviour back at camp as Ben's way of saying "I'm still in control of everything, don't try anything cause I'll win every time"
Locke beating the crap out of Mikhail is what suprised me. That came out of nowhere. But you're right - the Others just letting it happen proves that Ben is grasping at sand now, trying to keep everything contained. But the tighter he grips, the more people and plots will slip through his fingers.

I hope some tiny shred of this gets resolved next week.
Nine months is too long!

I kind of feel that Locke wont reappear until next season tho... :-(
Nine months? Is that how long the hiatus will be?

I wondered why Locke thought it was "necessary" to beat Mikhail senseless last week. I begin to see that he was actively undermining Ben's authority...not just being single-minded about his own personal agenda. Now, I'm more questioning why Ben let so much slide during that episode...allowing the beating without restraining Locke...allowing Alex to show up and give Lock a gun...if he's so much in charge, how does all that go down with barely more than his usual bug-eyed stare?

And now, this week, he's all full of orders again.

I've gotta say, though, his facial expression, body language, and verbal delivery on, "Here's your gun back," was a moment of sheer acting brilliance! Michael Emerson is an actor's actor. I adore him.

Abusing the name of Jacob? Absolutely. But, does this episode prove he's always done it or could this have been a moment of acting out in reaction to the extraordinary moment with Locke? I don't think it proves anything...merely suggests. It does beg the question, though...is Jacob a prisoner or a ruler?

Nine months? Is that how long the hiatus will be?

Eight, I thought.

I'm positive Jacob is a prisoner, but thats all I'll hazard a guess on at this time.

I wondered why Locke thought it was "necessary" to beat Mikhail senseless last week. I begin to see that he was actively undermining Ben's authority...not just being single-minded about his own personal agenda. Now, I'm more questioning why Ben let so much slide during that episode...allowing the beating without restraining Locke...allowing Alex to show up and give Lock a gun...if he's so much in charge, how does all that go down with barely more than his usual bug-eyed stare?

And now, this week, he's all full of orders again.

I've gotta say, though, his facial expression, body language, and verbal delivery on, "Here's your gun back," was a moment of sheer acting brilliance! Michael Emerson is an actor's actor. I adore him.

Abusing the name of Jacob? Absolutely. But, does this episode prove he's always done it or could this have been a moment of acting out in reaction to the extraordinary moment with Locke? I don't think it proves anything...merely suggests. It does beg the question, though...is Jacob a prisoner or a ruler?

I think Ben does have a special connection to Jacob, mainly because I don't think Richard and the Others are stupid. They obviously put young Ben's motives and desire to the test by making him meticulously plot out his own people's demise. And Richard seemed to "light up" with interest when young Ben mentioned seeing his "dead mother." More importantly I think Jacob is definitely real and very threatening to Ben. In Jacob's cabin Ben was having a conversation with someone who he clearly deferred to. I know Emerson is a great actor and Ben Linus is a master manipulator but he seemed genuinely submissive during that exchange. Also Ben was immediately fearful when Locke shined the flashlight back at him and consequently Jacob.

I think Ben's relationship with Jacob has a Darth Vader/Emperor dynamic. Ben is the enforcer of Jacob's will, which is probably some variation of the video that we saw Carl being brainwashed. However, just as Darth Vader had his own agenda with his son, Ben has his own special endeavor that he has been pursuing on company time. I think Ben's venture into the fertility business (motivated by the distorted memory of his dying mother) is the reason he became ill. Jacob has probably given Ben a long leash in the past but ultimately manifested his displeasure with Ben's straying from the righteous path.

Now that Ben has stepped even further away from Jacob's "love" by capturing Jack, Kate and Sawyer to help himself, Jacob has grown even more displeased and selected Locke as his new "go-to-guy." Everyone interprets Jacob's "help me," as a call for rescue. What if instead it was Jacob's signal to both Locke and Ben that there would be a changing of the guard? I think that's why Ben so desperately wanted to hear what Jacob told Locke. He has fallen out of his master's good graces and doesn't know if he can find his way back. This is why currently Ben is in uncharted territory and in this last episode seemed flustered momentarily. He has been so sure that for all this time he has been doing Jacob's (God's) bidding, but now he has a crisis of faith. It seems that Ben's solution to his problems is to "kill 'em all and let God (or Jacob?) sort them out."

I apologise if this has already been brought up somewhere, but figured this would fit as a first post! My take on the whole Ben and Jacob thing is that he can see him, or at least he used to, but in terms of whether Jacob gave the order to leave camp and kidnap the women I am doubtful. I think that in last weeks episode Ben realised that Locke had taken the dictaphone as Locke had previously seen him with it, so Ben saw that shooting him and leaving him for dead was a way of punishing him for betraying the Others. He decided to go to the Losties camp a day earlier as he knew they would not be expecting it so soon, not even Juliet, so used Jacob as his motive. (i also picked up on a post a while ago saying whenever his name is said, people tend not to question, rather go along with it, so telling everyone it was Jacob's orders stopped argument) There is also the fact that in rushing to leave a day earlier the focus is on the task for the Others, not on the wherabouts of John so Ben has used this to his advantage, it also means from Locke's point of view that he cannot get to the camp in time to warn them. I'm anxiously awaiting the finale, gonna be a long week!

Locke beating the crap out of Mikhail is what suprised me. That came out of nowhere. But you're right - the Others just letting it happen proves that Ben is grasping at sand now, trying to keep everything contained. But the tighter he grips, the more people and plots will slip through his fingers.

The beatdown was shocking, but it made sense. Locke was trying to establish himself as the alpha-dog to the rest of the camp. He put Ben in an awkward position with his talk of Jacob, and while he was confused and trying to figure out what to say, Locke savagely removed the only objection. It was more of a Discovery-channel-type solution, but Locke is all about getting back to nature.