Why did Jack and Rousseau waste that dynamite? And why did they waste time by bringing some of the Losties all the way to the clearing just for the meaningless fireworks display? They could have used that time to strip wiring from the plane. Sure the explosion made a better visual for t.v. instead of Jack just telling them about the dynamite plan, but did they really need to see the explosion to be convinced or comprehend that dynamite goes boom?

Also, they wasted a lot of wiring that they desperately needed in that test explosion. Not to mention the fact that the explosion would be heard all over the island, perhaps even warning the Others that dynamite might be in play by the Losties.

Speaking of wasting time, I find it a little hard to swallow that Jack and Juliet knew the Others were coming in just a few days and sat on that info rather than telling everyone and giving them more time to form a plan. Instead of sitting around and acting distant and weird for a couple of days, they could have had that wiring stripped out of the plane and ready to go when Rousseau came back with the dynamite. Now, they ran out of time and have to take a riskier route next episode when the Others come. It seems like some incompetent leadership on Jack's part.

no disrepect homie but u lookin for waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much logic on a TV show.

in reality, i would have displayed the dynomite's force to ensure they understand its a war we're partaking in. sometimes u need just a bit more to convince people that slaughtering the other team is the best way to go. i seriously doubt if he said "we have dynomite, we can blow them up" that they would have so easily ran with the idea.

Jack also said that he didnt say anything all that time because he didnt know what to do yet. Which means that would include going through ideas, getting info from Juliet, locating Rousseau, convincing Rousseau to help, waiting on Rousseau to extract extremely delicate dynomite from the middle of the jungle, actually DECIDING to defend themselves after going thru pros and cons, etc. Its not like that plan was automatically the 1st one thought up so they could have been ultra prepared in any instance.

regardless, the camp wants him to be leader and he's finally accepted the role, but it doenst mean he's the best. and its TV

P.Stones

Why did Jack and Rousseau waste that dynamite? And why did they waste time by bringing some of the Losties all the way to the clearing just for the meaningless fireworks display? They could have used that time to strip wiring from the plane. Sure the explosion made a better visual for t.v. instead of Jack just telling them about the dynamite plan, but did they really need to see the explosion to be convinced or comprehend that dynamite goes boom?

Also, they wasted a lot of wiring that they desperately needed in that test explosion. Not to mention the fact that the explosion would be heard all over the island, perhaps even warning the Others that dynamite might be in play by the Losties.

Speaking of wasting time, I find it a little hard to swallow that Jack and Juliet knew the Others were coming in just a few days and sat on that info rather than telling everyone and giving them more time to form a plan. Instead of sitting around and acting distant and weird for a couple of days, they could have had that wiring stripped out of the plane and ready to go when Rousseau came back with the dynamite. Now, they ran out of time and have to take a riskier route next episode when the Others come. It seems like some incompetent leadership on Jack's part.

I completely agree. When they blew that dynamite, my first reaction was "Well that was pretty stupid! The Others might be able to see or hear that" (not to mention, as you pointed out, the complete waste of dynamite just for visual effect). The whole journey to the dynamite was absolutely pointless. And I was really hoping for Sayid to punch Jack tonight or something for sitting on the rather crucial info that the Others were coming.

Speaking of wasting time, I find it a little hard to swallow that Jack and Juliet knew the Others were coming in just a few days and sat on that info rather than telling everyone and giving them more time to form a plan. Instead of sitting around and acting distant and weird for a couple of days, they could have had that wiring stripped out of the plane and ready to go when Rousseau came back with the dynamite. Now, they ran out of time and have to take a riskier route next episode when the Others come. It seems like some incompetent leadership on Jack's part.

That's why i think they have something else in mind they're not sharing with us.

Folks. There is a simple answer to this question.

Because. It. Looked. Cool.

This is television. Not everything happens for a logical reason. That's not lazy writing, it's just television writing.

I'm okay with the decision to put something more in the episode than touching goodbye scenes. The explosion was cool.

If we're looking for logic, how about having the lostaways prepare for an Others invasion months before they receive an engraved calling card with the date of onslaught? If that tape wasn't there, they'd be playing ping-pong.

I completey agree! Waste of Time and Dynamite. They alrady know the stuff works, think back to season 2 and how the hatch was BLOWN open, Artz was right there.. oh wait, no he wasn't. :cool: So ok, they've established the TNT works, but poor old mister tree needs to be taught a lesson because slack jawed gawkers don't understand what they are up against unless they are slapped in the face with a dose of reality. Besides, as far as we know, the dynamite is very much an endless source. Lost is full of logic holes. This may be a bit off topic, but when Charlie resurfaced in the looking glass i was practically yelling at my tv for him to shutup!! "they'll hear you charlie, NOOOO!!!" then again, he did think he was going to die. Then again, it IS a tv show, so i just let my brain coast and watch them do the work. More logic would be nice though.

Why did Jack and Rousseau waste that dynamite? And why did they waste time by bringing some of the Losties all the way to the clearing just for the meaningless fireworks display? They could have used that time to strip wiring from the plane. Sure the explosion made a better visual for t.v. instead of Jack just telling them about the dynamite plan, but did they really need to see the explosion to be convinced or comprehend that dynamite goes boom?


because TV is a visual medium. In the stage-adaptation, they just talk about it in Jack's tent. :biggrin:

because TV is a visual medium. In the stage-adaptation, they just talk about it in Jack's tent. :biggrin:

Exactly. Having the opening scene with a few folks sitting around a tent "talking" about dynamite and then hitting the Lost logo simply loses punch. This is a visual medium and sometimes its important to use the visual to its fullest effect.

Sure it might suggest the writers are lazy but honestly the writers have a lot (A LOT) of back story and sub plot to keep focused on, more so than any show ever. So when they opt to bring a point with minimal dialogue and maximum visual appeal, let it ride. Its a tv show!

When I saw this I thought Danielle was going to blow up the staff hatch. When I realized that they just only blew up the tree I thought to myself that was pretty lame. When Jack said we are going to blow them up I thought he is going to get everyone (losties) killed. Guess we will have to wait and see...

Maybe it took a little time to find Rousseau and to convince her? I agree with blowing up dynamite and the attention it would attract and how that is not so cool..... :undecide:

Why did Jack and Rousseau waste that dynamite? And why did they waste time by bringing some of the Losties all the way to the clearing just for the meaningless fireworks display? They could have used that time to strip wiring from the plane. Sure the explosion made a better visual for t.v. instead of Jack just telling them about the dynamite plan, but did they really need to see the explosion to be convinced or comprehend that dynamite goes boom?

It's actually a really, really good idea to verify that your plan works before you go forward with it. I'd prefer to have Rousseau show me that her detonation system will work through a live test when my life is at stake.

What if Rousseau isnt so hot at wiring things up? What if she thinks it will work, but she's reallly no demolitions expert? How do you know her plan is worth risking everyone's lives on until you see for yourself?

Forget all the TV talk, there's no way I'd want to take someone's word on this. You need to make sure that what you have. You dont put things into production without testing them live in staging. To me this wasnt much of a stretch. There's a million things that go wrong between a person's ability to deliver something 'in theory' and seeing someone physically do something.

I just assumed that they needed to do a 'test run' to make sure the wires/charge/amount of dynamite all worked.... and since they were doing a test run, may as well let everyone watch. plus, as others have said, it looked cool. :cool:

I had the same thoughts about why waste time but P. Stones you bring up a good point. Jack did say he didn't know what to do at first and they did have to find Rousseau - we did see her at the black rock collecting dynamite which would take some time considering how unstable it was.

Also good points about testing the wiring and the dynamite for that matter. It would be just awful to have everything ready and connect your wires and nothing...so I agree they did need a test and they did need to convince everyone not to run and hide...

When the movies for LOTR came out, people were complaining all over the place about changes in the storytelling - I was one of them but the director and writers pointed out in the dvd's that some things don't come across well on screen. I think this is one of those situations.

Of course it wasn't practical, it was mostly just a plot device to make the show more intense.

Seems like John Locke knew about the plan since he pretty much just sat there and didn't even question at all Rousseau's collecting large amounts of dynomite. So It seems pretty certain that Jack told Locke. Possibly Locke is the one who looked up Rousseau for Jack since they had been kinda hanging out together recently.

I completely agree. When they blew that dynamite, my first reaction was "Well that was pretty stupid! The Others might be able to see or hear that" (not to mention, as you pointed out, the complete waste of dynamite just for visual effect). The whole journey to the dynamite was absolutely pointless. And I was really hoping for Sayid to punch Jack tonight or something for sitting on the rather crucial info that the Others were coming.


I agree 1,000,000% with everything you just wrote. Especially the part about Sayid punching Jack.:rolleyes:

There is also no way one of the others didn't see/hear that explosion. They have people everywhere, so one of them must have noticed it.

I agree that in terms of the Survivor's motives, this was a foolish move. But Danielle, coupled with the explosion and Jack's description of "blowing them to Hell" was one of the most hardcore LOST scenes ever.

It also did wonders for Jack's image, both with the Survivors and us fans. I think in one swift moment he won a lot of people back.

Seems like John Locke knew about the plan since he pretty much just sat there and didn't even question at all Rousseau's collecting large amounts of dynomite. So It seems pretty certain that Jack told Locke. Possibly Locke is the one who looked up Rousseau for Jack since they had been kinda hanging out together recently.


Locke didn't question Rousseau because he didn't want Rousseau to question him, get it? They both had business to do, and neither of them probably wanted to know or wanted the other to know what they were doing. Both practical people, just going about their dirty business.

because TV is a visual medium. In the stage-adaptation, they just talk about it in Jack's tent. :biggrin:

now that's funny. In the old time radio drama they'd be conspiring quietly behind a tree.

Testing the dynamite not only looked cool - it was smart. As said before, but apparently ignored, you are not just testing the sticks, you are testing the ignition system - which is cobbled together from scraps of wire that came out of a fiery plane crash. It would have been very stupid to try and set everything up without first verifying that it worked.

Locke didn't question Rousseau because he didn't want Rousseau to question him, get it? They both had business to do, and neither of them probably wanted to know or wanted the other to know what they were doing. Both practical people, just going about their dirty business.

Indeed I did get it quite nicely. I'm just thinking maybe there was some understanding we did not know about at that point.

Did any of us know that she was getting the dynamite for the reason of Jack blowing the other's to hell at the time she got it? I certainly didn't. My point is Locke probably did though.

Folks. There is a simple answer to this question.

Because. It. Looked. Cool.

This is television. Not everything happens for a logical reason. That's not lazy writing, it's just television writing.
No, that's cheating. Damon knows by now this is at least in large part a mystery game, and to play fair they have to have plot reasons, not just dramatic ones, character motivations, not just writer motiv'ns. Would you like him to confirm their slogan, "Everything happens for a reason"?

My friends and I discussed this on the phone last night. It was concluded that if Jack really needed to convince people of what he & Rousseau had been working on, he could've just shown them a wired & primed piece of dynamite. So we decided it had to be one or both of these possibilities:

To get those I think are suckers (i.e. not "in on it" with almost all the other characters) -- Sayid, Sawyer, Desmond, Juliet, and Jin (the last of whom I'm not sure is one of the suckers) -- away from the beach camp, so something could be done behind their backs on the beach in the meantime.
To give an audible signal, possibly for those "on the other side".Please understand that this is in the context of (and evidence for) my conspiracy-hoax theory, which means that the impending "war" is fake because they're all in it together.

Robert

Apparently everyone is ignoring the points made about testing the dynamite and the wires...

I agree with Suds (though we probably differ on the scale of the deception - I think it's just Jack and Ben who are really in on what is about to happen). There are a couple of other scenes where Jack makes it clear that he is picking up the mantle of leadership again because everyone needs him to, not because he necessarily wants to.

It also did wonders for Jack's image, both with the Survivors and us fans. I think in one swift moment he won a lot of people back.

This would be part of the deception to get people to believe Jack is once again the trustworthy leader. There may or may not have been something going on back at camp, as Suds said, but the display of powerful leadership - and off-campsite planning - was the real purpose.

I wasn't really all that worried about blowing up the tree. I agree with the people who say that it was to test the wires, to get the Losties' attentions, and for fun tv, etc.
What I was wondering was, why did they use so much dynamite in the tents? Didn't they use like 5 sticks in just one tent? I don't know much about dynamite, so someone help me, but Arzt created a pretty big explosion with just one. Well, maybe he blew up a couple more when that one blew up, I don't know. :undecide: So why so much in the tents?

When Jack said we are going to blow them up I thought he is going to get everyone (losties) killed. Guess we will have to wait and see...

LOL, omg I so can't wait for this to be Jack's fault. Um, it was Sayid's plan when the wiring plan failed. Mark my words, though, it will all be on Jack. LOL

Isn't the reason the shooters are necessary because they didn't have enough wire? How much wire did they waste in that demo explosion? And would they have had enough if they didn't do the demo?

Even though I really like this episode, this part stood out as glaringly ridiculous. It would be one thing if they were rolling in dynamite, but they didn't even have enough stuff to execute their plan ONE DAY in advance.

I would have liked it much better if either they had so much that blowing up a tree would be small potatoes OR if they refrained from causing such a big display with their limited supplies.

No, that's cheating. Damon knows by now this is at least in large part a mystery game, and to play fair they have to have plot reasons, not just dramatic ones, character motivations, not just writer motiv'ns. Would you like him to confirm their slogan, "Everything happens for a reason"?

I used to believe their mantra "Everything happens for a reason" as well. Last week I was excited to see a painting of a hound in Jacob's shack. Might represent Cerberus, the Hound of Hell. Cool! :)

When I found out it was merely a painting of the producer's dog Lulu, I was bloody angry! How dare they! They might as well drop Damon's Mercedes in the jungle for Hurley to find. Why not have Walt park Damon's cigarette boat at the Pala Ferry? Heck, have one of the cameraman's kid's drawings pop up in a bottle on the beach. Why the heck not - it's all meaningless. :mad:

IMHO, the Jacob dog painting symbolizes (ironic, isn't it :biggrin: ) the Jump the Shark moment for "meaning" on the show. Everything is downhill from here as far as meaning something goes.:frown:

Even though I really like this episode, this part stood out as glaringly ridiculous. It would be one thing if they were rolling in dynamite, but they didn't even have enough stuff to execute their plan ONE DAY in advance.

They didn't say there wasn't enough dynamite, it was the wires they were short on but they had to use wiring from the plane to make longer wires which is what everyone was working on. The reason they couldn't do it right away was because they hadn't made enough wires yet.

They didn't say there wasn't enough dynamite, it was the wires they were short on...And Danielle took a whole crate of dynamite, which from what I remember had a LOT of dynamite in it.

Leaders need to instill confidence in their troops. It's a good plan. And it's hard to assume that someone weird like The Others coming earlier would have happened. We also don't know what else Jack has up his sleeve. With Juliet's knowledge, all bets are off.

I used to believe their mantra "Everything happens for a reason" as well. Last week I was excited to see a painting of a hound in Jacob's shack. Might represent Cerberus, the Hound of Hell. Cool! :)

When I found out it was merely a painting of the producer's dog Lulu, I was bloody angry! How dare they! They might as well drop Damon's Mercedes in the jungle for Hurley to find. Why not have Walt park Damon's cigarette boat at the Pala Ferry? Heck, have one of the cameraman's kid's drawings pop up in a bottle on the beach. Why the heck not - it's all meaningless.
The dog painting's OK to me, because if you have a shack you might as well have some decor, so why not a Lulu? But when something is out of place or unexpected there have better be a reason.

Robert