What a great scene. I was always under the impression that Charlie originally took an interest in Claire because he was a "Rock God" junkie hitting on the hot blond. It was really nice to see that he seemed to genuinely care for her since the moment he first saw her.

Also, when do you think this scene was filmed? Much of the original crash seemed to be set up again on the beach (I absolutely LOVE flashbacks from the Pilot, btw). That seems like a lot of work just to set up a 30 second scene.

Could this scene have been shot during Expose? Then again we saw a number of survivors (such as Rose and Bernard) ripping through pieces of the plane in real time in "Greatest Hits" as well.

1) Sounds like Emilie was a little sick when she shot that scene. Same with Sawyer back during "One of Us".

2) Charlie was still on heroin by that point.

3) Charlie was still checking his options by that point. The day after that night, Shannon would convince him to accompany them on their hike (in order to upset Boone); in "Tabula Rasa", he would help Claire carry some bags; and in "Walkabout", Shannon would convince him to catch a fish for her. I guess after he realized that Shannon had merely used him, he stopped caring for her and directed his attention towards CLaire instead.

4) Since Claire doesn't have anything to eat yet, it would seem that Charlie will leave her again after this scene, and then Hurley will give her a few lunchbags. And then the monster will make his big entrance.

5) They did a really good job matching Claire's look back in the pilot, down to the little injury on her chin. They even found a way to hide her bangs.

All in all, a very well-done "missing" scene.

Maybe that particular flashback was how Charlie remembered it?
Because Charlie should be all strung out, right?

I'm so happy that someone else was impressed with how well they hid Claire's bangs when they revisited that scene! My husband just rolls his eyes at me when I mention things like that!

And yes, I agree that this may be the way Charlie remembered it happening.

They certainly are getting better with things of that nature.

i thought the scene with charlie and claire was cute. but didnt charlie meet claire before then? he did help her out on the beach, remember? or was that the next day?

I made a similar post earlier today, but it got lost in the rush of new topics.

I really enjoyed this scene. I had always assumed Charlie the "Rock God" took an interest in Claire simply because she was the hot blond chick on the Island, but it seemed like he truly cared for her since the very beginning.

Also, it seemed like a lot of work to set up all that wreckage for such a short scene. Could that scene have been shot during the filming of "Expose"? Then again, in "Greatest Hits" we saw several survivors carrying around chunks of the plane.

Claire's voice freaked me out during that scene - she must have had a cold or something.

I loved the way Charlie took his hood down before going to talk to Claire. Dom has stated that Charlie likes to hide beneath his hood, so it was quite significant how he emerged from it to speak with Claire. Great to see the lil black hoodie again!

Charlie flirted with quite a few girls in the early days (Kate, Shannon...) but this scene suggest it was "love at first sight" for him with Claire. I feel Charlie is more protective and precious than flirty. He doesn't see Claire as a hot blonde, but as something pure and beautiful.

2) Charlie was still on heroin by that point.
Not really.

6) Charlie's question as to whether it was Claire's first plane crash might've been a serious one. Maybe he'd been through this before.

7) He mentioned the helicopters.

Robert

Not really.

6) Charlie's question as to whether it was Claire's first plane crash might've been a serious one. Maybe he'd been through this before.

7) He mentioned the helicopters.

Robert

That's all your own little theory. Not fact.

Um, I think the first plane crash comment was a joke, to set her at ease.

Yeah, a joke. And Charlie was definitely on smack, although by the morning he'll be jonesing to get back to the cockpit. Later that next day we see the second meeting with Charlie and Claire moving luggage in Tabula Rasa.

Claire was the only one Charlie was genuine with. He never bragged about his band or tried to puff himself up. His only concern was for her.

That's all your own little theory. Not fact.

If I am not mistaken, isn't that what Maybe means?

But it was a joke to make her feel better.
Though it is odd he mentions helicopters and not, say, a ship.

I loved the way Charlie took his hood down before going to talk to Claire. Dom has stated that Charlie likes to hide beneath his hood, so it was quite significant how he emerged from it to speak with Claire. Great to see the lil black hoodie again!

Charlie flirted with quite a few girls in the early days (Kate, Shannon...) but this scene suggest it was "love at first sight" for him with Claire. I feel Charlie is more protective and precious than flirty. He doesn't see Claire as a hot blonde, but as something pure and beautiful.


Yes! I liked how he was "Dark Charlie" skulking around in his hoodie, until he saw Claire, when he took it off and became light Charlie!

If I am not mistaken, isn't that what Maybe means?

There's no "maybe" after his response to my comment about Charlie being on heroin.

Besides, Suds has a very elaborate theory about 90-95% of the events on Lost being part of a giant setup intended to fool a small number of characters, with everyone else participating in the con. While that theory itself may be debatable (personally, I find it ludicrous), Suds is so dead convinced of it that he often forgets to add disclaimers that it's just his theory and not established fact.

i thought the scene with charlie and claire was cute. but didnt charlie meet claire before then? he did help her out on the beach, remember? or was that the next day?

Yeah, I was wondering that too. I could have swore that there was a different scene during season one where they met and introduced themselves, but I'd have to go back to check.

There's no "maybe" after his response to my comment about Charlie being on heroin.

He said not really to your reply line about Charlie still being on drugs. Suds was wrong. Charlie was still using.
Then he added two of his own thoughts.


Besides, Suds has a very elaborate theory about 90-95% of the events on Lost being part of a giant setup intended to fool a small number of characters, with everyone else participating in the con. While that theory itself may be debatable (personally, I find it ludicrous), Suds is so dead convinced of it that he often forgets to add disclaimers that it's just his theory and not established fact.I thought that was the purpose.

Disclamers?
Have we become so anal on this site that we can only discuss or acept replys that are 100% fact. We would be in sorry shape.
Sorry don't meant to be confrontational.

There's no "maybe" after his response to my comment about Charlie being on heroin.... Suds is so dead convinced of it that he often forgets to add disclaimers that it's just his theory and not established fact.
But you didn't put "maybe" before your comment about his being on heroin either.

Either he was on heroin or he wasn't. We disagree as to the fact. One of us has to be wrong on that point. That being the case, how can you say that only my interpretation isn't established fact?

Robert

But you didn't put "maybe" before your comment about his being on heroin either.

Either he was on heroin or he wasn't. We disagree as to the fact. One of us has to be wrong on that point. That being the case, how can you say that only my interpretation isn't established fact?

Robert

We saw Charlie taking the heroin out of his show on the plane's toilet right before the crash. He accompanied Jack and Kate to the cockpit the next day to get back his stash so he could get his next fix. And in "Numbers", he told Hurley: "You know what I was doing when the plane went down? I was snorting heroin in the toilet. I was such a junkie I couldn't even take a plane ride with out having a fix." This is what we saw on the show. If you're going to question that, you can as well question everything on the show being real, and we can't accept ANYTHING as a fact.

Oooooor we can just use Okkham's Razor and assume that anything we see on the show is real unless we're given substantial evidence to the contrary, and everything else is just a theory.

Yes is was a very touching scene. :)

I think the two actors were put infront of a green screen and a few pieces of crash iteams around them for them to sit on.

What a great scene. I was always under the impression that Charlie originally took an interest in Claire because he was a "Rock God" junkie hitting on the hot blond. It was really nice to see that he seemed to genuinely care for her since the moment he first saw her.


I thought that, too. I also remember Charlie being very flirtatious with Kate and Shannon. But it's good to know in hindsight, that he really did have a special interest in Claire the moment he saw her.

We saw Charlie taking the heroin out of his show on the plane's toilet right before the crash. He accompanied Jack and Kate to the cockpit the next day to get back his stash so he could get his next fix. And in "Numbers", he told Hurley: "You know what I was doing when the plane went down? I was snorting heroin in the toilet. I was such a junkie I couldn't even take a plane ride with out having a fix." This is what we saw on the show. If you're going to question that, you can as well question everything on the show being real, and we can't accept ANYTHING as a fact.

Oooooor we can just use Okkham's Razor and assume that anything we see on the show is real unless we're given substantial evidence to the contrary, and everything else is just a theory.

I wholeheartedly agree Nevermore. Otherwise, what's the point? The alternative is playing make-believe and making up any reason under the sun for anything you see on the show, which would be ludicrous. I could say "oh, the sand on the beach is really vanilla extract, the jungle foliage is made out of green twizzlers, the plane broke apart and crashed because it was made out of painted chocolate that melted in midair, and they're now in CANDY LAND", and no one here could prove without a shadow of a doubt otherwise.

Substantial evidence is very important when trying to disprove something that we have seen.

We saw Charlie taking the heroin out of his show on the plane's toilet right before the crash.
No, we saw Charlie take out a bag of white powder. I'm not sure whether the heroin was real.

And in "Numbers", he told Hurley: "You know what I was doing when the plane went down? I was snorting heroin in the toilet. I was such a junkie I couldn't even take a plane ride with out having a fix."
Right. But I don't think he was telling the truth.

This is what we saw on the show. If you're going to question that, you can as well question everything on the show being real, and we can't accept ANYTHING as a fact.

Oooooor we can just use Okkham's Razor and assume that anything we see on the show is real unless we're given substantial evidence to the contrary, and everything else is just a theory.
Yes, what you see is real. You didn't see heroin, you saw white powder.

Robert

Claires voice was odd, Emilie must of been sick filming the day they shot that.

Charlie asking if Claires been in a crash before really has me thinking hes been through one before.

No, we saw Charlie take out a bag of white powder. I'm not sure whether the heroin was real.


Right. But I don't think he was telling the truth.


Yes, what you see is real. You didn't see heroin, you saw white powder.

Robert

We've been given all reason to assume that it WAS heroin. There was no substantial evidence on the show to assume that the heroin was not real. Therefore, we are to assume thet the heroin was real until proven otherwise, and everything else is just a theory.

No, we saw Charlie take out a bag of white powder. I'm not sure whether the heroin was real.

Right. But I don't think he was telling the truth.

Yes, what you see is real. You didn't see heroin, you saw white powder.

Robert

Ughhh, that hurts my mind... That's beyond ludicrous, I'm sorry but if Lost goes the way of 'HAHA! We fooled you! look at how you believed everything we showed you! gya-ha-ha-ha-ha!' then I'm gonna be very, very, very angry.
Also to be honest, Nevermore is right, because you yet again just stated your opinion as fact:
'You didnt see heroin, you saw white powder'

Also, why would Charlie pretend sniffing heroin on the plane toilet right before the crash if it wasn't real? Who was he supposed to fool by that?

Also, why would Charlie pretend sniffing heroin on the plane toilet right before the crash if it wasn't real? Who was he supposed to fool by that?
Well I would have to assume he wanted to fool Locke so that Locke would take an interest in him and their relationship could eventually become sexual.
This is what I believe. So it is now fact.

Well I would have to assume he wanted to fool Locke so that Locke would take an interest in him and their relationship could eventually become sexual.
This is what I believe. So it is now fact.

Careful. Irony is not permitted here. The mods consider it as baiting.

This thread is supposed to be about Charlie meeting Claire, not Sud's theory. There is another thread for that. If we don't get back on topic, this thread will be closed by the mods.

So did everyone think they did a good job recreating the "missing scene" from the Pilot? Last night, after watching the clip show, they showed a scene from that same night where Charlie is sitting with Sayid writing on his fingers and he looks exactly the same as he did in this new scene. I think this was an ever better job than when they tried to fit Boone and Shannon back in with their wigs.

That scene was truly excellent. It was well done and it so reminded me of the pilot. And then when Charlie wrote down "The day I met her" it was so sad. :frown:

No, we saw Charlie take out a bag of white powder. I'm not sure whether the heroin was real.

Uh, sir? He was alone in a bathroom. I don't think he was about to start snorting a "bag of white powder" and tell everybody else that it's heroin. :rolleyes: I mean, you're not serious with these theories of yours, right? I've been reading this thread and I've got the impression that you're just joking around. Right? Gosh, I hope so.

This thread is supposed to be about Charlie meeting Claire, not Sud's theory. There is another thread for that. If we don't get back on topic, this thread will be closed by the mods.

So did everyone think they did a good job recreating the "missing scene" from the Pilot? Last night, after watching the clip show, they showed a scene from that same night where Charlie is sitting with Sayid writing on his fingers and he looks exactly the same as he did in this new scene. I think this was an ever better job than when they tried to fit Boone and Shannon back in with their wigs.

I need to watch the clip show (or my season 1 dvd) but when I saw the scene with Claire, I did feel like I was back in season 1. Kudos to the crew for the recreation.

I like that Charlie even had those weird cloth things wrapped around his fingers. Extreme attention to detail... the scene was excellent!

Chronologically, I would guess this scene takes place before everything we seen in the pilot following the establishing shot that was recycled for this episode. Since the scene in the pilot starts with Charlie and Sayid sitting next to each other, and they're still sitting together when the monster makes its entrance.

We've been given all reason to assume that it WAS heroin.
With this show, you gotta be a Sayid, as when he dug up the grave of "Mrs. Gale".

There was no substantial evidence on the show to assume that the heroin was not real. Therefore, we are to assume thet the heroin was real until proven otherwise, and everything else is just a theory.
At the time, various viewers remarked as to how easy Charlie's supposed withdrawal from heroin seemed.

I figure the diamonds were phony too, or Sawyer wouldn't've parted with them. Do you think that you are to assume they were real unless proven (By what standard?) otherwise?

How about the injections in the Swan station and elsewhere? You just assume they're real because you have no proof otherwise?

I'm going by the totality of the evidence given by the show, figuring what best fits into a coherent overall picture. If that means that certain individual elements must be different from the way they look in isolation, so be it.

Robert

I loved the way Charlie took his hood down before going to talk to Claire. Dom has stated that Charlie likes to hide beneath his hood, so it was quite significant how he emerged from it to speak with Claire. Great to see the lil black hoodie again!

Charlie flirted with quite a few girls in the early days (Kate, Shannon...) but this scene suggest it was "love at first sight" for him with Claire. I feel Charlie is more protective and precious than flirty. He doesn't see Claire as a hot blonde, but as something pure and beautiful.

As a woman with 2 kids, I doubt that at that point (their first meeting) Charlie was looking at Claire as a "hot blonde"...8 month-pregnant chicks tend to only be "hot" to whomever got them that way. And wierd dudes with mommy issues....But since this is an island for folks with DADDY issues, I doubt that was the case with Charlie!!

Also, why would Charlie pretend sniffing heroin on the plane toilet right before the crash if it wasn't real? Who was he supposed to fool by that?
It would've provided an excuse for his rushing into a bathroom at the front of the plane, which several persons would have witnessed. Plus, the bag he found in the unflushed toilet "proves" that the wreckage was from the same plane. It also gave him an excuse to be at the front section of the plane to witness the monster attack.

More importantly, the whole junkie scenario provided an alibi for his trip to Australia and a whole range of behaviors on the island whose significance is yet to be grasped.

100%

Has anybody considered the possibility that "the first time I met you" refers not to the scene in the flashback, but to an unshown meeting that occurred before even the assembly of flight 815? Just throwing that possibility out there.

Robert

1) Sounds like Emilie was a little sick when she shot that scene. Same with Sawyer back during "One of Us".

2) Charlie was still on heroin by that point.

3) Charlie was still checking his options by that point. The day after that night, Shannon would convince him to accompany them on their hike (in order to upset Boone); in "Tabula Rasa", he would help Claire carry some bags; and in "Walkabout", Shannon would convince him to catch a fish for her. I guess after he realized that Shannon had merely used him, he stopped caring for her and directed his attention towards CLaire instead.

4) Since Claire doesn't have anything to eat yet, it would seem that Charlie will leave her again after this scene, and then Hurley will give her a few lunchbags. And then the monster will make his big entrance.

5) They did a really good job matching Claire's look back in the pilot, down to the little injury on her chin. They even found a way to hide her bangs.

All in all, a very well-done "missing" scene.

Okay....this is the Original Post for this thread...let's stay on topic to this post and not go off on another topic that has nothing to do with this post.

If you want to discuss the fake crash theory..take it to that thread and stop interjecting it here or this thread will be locked and points awarded to those who continue to push this OT.

Thank you.

Er, my bad. Made my last post before seeing the mod's preceeding post.

On topic: I wonder whether they would bother to have Emilie dub over her lines for the DVD to get rid of the bad cold sound in her voice.

Same for Sawyer's lines in "One of Us".

If not, then here's one: How about that for a tropical location, albeit one with polar bears, it seems to get cold enough at night on the beach to require blankets?

Robert

He doesn't see Claire as a hot blonde, but as something pure and beautiful.

I love that. That's how I've always viewed their relationship, too. He loves her for her kind heart and sweet attitude, not because she's a hot piece of ***.

I think their relationship is the most mature on the show.

I loved the way Charlie took his hood down before going to talk to Claire. Dom has stated that Charlie likes to hide beneath his hood, so it was quite significant how he emerged from it to speak with Claire. Great to see the lil black hoodie again!

Charlie flirted with quite a few girls in the early days (Kate, Shannon...) but this scene suggest it was "love at first sight" for him with Claire. I feel Charlie is more protective and precious than flirty. He doesn't see Claire as a hot blonde, but as something pure and beautiful.

I am not so sure we should call these scenes "flashbacks" as much as "memories." The flashbacks we the viewers see are more to give background info and to add to a character's depth and motivations.

What we saw were Charlie's memories. While they may be subjective, I believe Charlie versions are of a man who knows he is about to die and therefore he colors them in a positive light. We here at CasaThor enjoyed them as his memories and not as the usual flashbacks that PAW (producers and writers) gives us as background story.

I agree that Charlie saw Claire as someone different and very special. The removing of the hood was a nice touch that said a lot more than words could.

Good point about this being a memory and therefore slightly altered. For one thing, I don't think Charlie looked quite as doped up as he did in the actual Pilot. He may be choosing to disregard that part of the memory and he comes off pretty clearheaded.

But as people have said, Charlie didn't have his drugs then. He didn't get them back until he went with Kate and Jack to the front of the plane the next day. I would think by this time the drugs he used before the crash would be mostly out of his system (course I don't know exactly how much time passed between then and the crash, so that's just a guess)

As far as I understand it, flashbacks are memories. Their point is not only to give us background to the characters, but also to show us what they're thinking about from their past life as they go through the island stuff. I don't think there's ment to be any difference between normal flashbacks and those we saw in GH.

Anyway about the scene. I knew his number one was going to be something about Claire, but I figured it'd be something we knew already. This was a nice surprise and I thought it was very sweet. The big thing that bothered me was Claire's voice... I'll admit it kept me from enjoying the scene the first time, but I got over it the next times I watched. I also thought Claire saying "you really think they'll find us?" as if she didn't believe it was extremely out of character. Claire was always optimistic about getting rescued, that was even her reason for not wanting to leave the beach in CM. But other than those two things, it was a darling little scene which I enjoyed.

I also thought Claire saying "you really think they'll find us?" as if she didn't believe it was extremely out of character. Claire was always optimistic about getting rescued, that was even her reason for not wanting to leave the beach in CM.

But maybe she was optimistic because Charlie gave her hope in that little scene?

That could be true, but I still don't even see reason for her to think no one would come. This was before they knew they were off course when they crashed and on an island where some woman has been for 16 yrs without rescue; which I think is what killed most people's hope. I donno, it just didn't make sense to me.

But as people have said, Charlie didn't have his drugs then. He didn't get them back until he went with Kate and Jack to the front of the plane the next day. I would think by this time the drugs he used before the crash would be mostly out of his system (course I don't know exactly how much time passed between then and the crash, so that's just a guess)

He may have been temporarily seperated from his stash but he sure did have them in his system. Otherwise, he would have been shaking and sweating. That first encounter scene was only a few hours ater the crash and Charie had a fix right before the plane went down. He was still all right because of it. The next morning, he was compelled to enter the creepy jungle to get more. My understanding of heroin addiction is that you have to be pretty much on it all the time, as soon as a dose leaves your system you need another one. Charlie was still on his.

I also thought Claire saying "you really think they'll find us?" as if she didn't believe it was extremely out of character. Claire was always optimistic about getting rescued, that was even her reason for not wanting to leave the beach in CM. But other than those two things, it was a darling little scene which I enjoyed.

I've heard other people say this, but the truth is the flashbacks reveal that this wasn't true. It was not out of character at all. When you put the scenes together in order, we find that Claire got all of her hope and optimism from Charlie. Before this new missing scene was shown to us, we had the scene from White Rabbit where Claire is worried that Jack is missing and Locke may get killed getting water for her. Charlie is constantly reassuring, telling her not to worry. The she asks "when are they going to rescue us?" and Charlie says "soon." Then she thanks him for looking her in the eye and talking to her straight. Only several days after this, in Confidence Man, do we learn that Claire has chosen to stay on the beach in hope of getting rescued. That's the first time we see hope emanate from her. The interesting thing is by this point, Charlie is starting to lose hope, so he now leans on her for strength.

But where did Claire get this hope? From Charlie. In addition to the White Rabbit scene, we now have a scene of their first encounter where he assures her rescue is coming. This scene fits perfectly with the scene in White Rabbit. Claire is concerned and uncertain, Charlie reassures. Not out of character at all. I don't know where people are getting the idea that Claire was naturally optimistic about rescue all on her own from the very beginning. We already knew that wasn't true. Charlie was her strength literally from day one.

It may still be in his system, but he'd be sobered up...that what I was trying to say. Even when he got his drugs back, he was rarely seen noticeably high around other people, even in the second part of the pilot, when they take off he is defiantly high, but a few hours later you wouldn't be able to tell at all. He was using for about a week after the crash and that's really the only time I can think of where he appears high in front of the rest of the group. All I'm saying is, the fact that he doesn't appear high while talking to Claire doesn't really mean anything. I thought the way he was walking was sort of in a daze like, he probably just didn't want to appear high in front of her. If that makes sense

I'm not sure I buy that explaination of Clarie's hope either. I read the scene in White Rabbit very differently. I think Charlie had already given up on hope the second he heard Danielle's signal. Sayid even said they couldn't tell anyone what they heard, because it would cause people to loose hope. I think Charlie was just letting Claire keep her hope that they would someday be rescued even though he didn't believe it himself, same story in CM. He was protecting her from the reality. I read her line "When are they going to rescue us" as not a sign that she had given up, but rather a sign that she still had hope that rescue would still come. I always thought that was one of the things that drew Charlie to her, that she was hopeful and optimistic while he was not. Obviously we're reading the same scene very differently, but I don't see it the way you described.

And even if your interruption is right that doesn't explain why she wouldn't have hope that they wouldn't come the same night they crashed. Like you said, it had only been a few hours. Why would anyone not think they would come? If that was in character for her, that would make her a terrible pessimist, which I really don't see in her at all.

Well, regardless of what Charlie felt, he was putting on a brave face for Claire and had done so in White Rabbit as well as the first time they met. I don't think Claire was being a pessimist by doubting rescue the first night. She was eight months pregnant, alone and scared. Charlie was the only one who sat down and talked to her, offered her some hope and that's what the scene was about. I'm sure everyone was on a rollercoaster of hope and doubt at the time and I would find it less believable if Claire was all hearts and flowers from the beginning. She's a more three dimensional character than that.

Has anybody considered the possibility that "the first time I met you" refers not to the scene in the flashback, but to an unshown meeting that occurred before even the assembly of flight 815? Just throwing that possibility out there.

Robert

I don't think so. Then the flashback to them on the night of the crash wouldn't make any sense. Why show them talking on the beach and not meeting the real first time, if there was in fact another time where they met?

I don't think so. Then the flashback to them on the night of the crash wouldn't make any sense. Why show them talking on the beach and not meeting the real first time, if there was in fact another time where they met?

Could we PLEASE stay on topic? A mod has asked us not to discuss Suds' conspiracy theories in this topic anymore. Please?

I feel like I'm being cheated when we have flashbacks to the season 1 stuff - in this situation and especially like in Expose. I get a "we know this isnt as good as season 1 so we'll flashback to it to give you that warm fuzzy feeling again" vibe from it. Dont get me wrong I absolutely love this season, but I cant help but feel like they're playing off season 1 instances to add a solid foundation back to the show. I know I cant be alone here.

Anyway, I liked this flashback and thought it was a good way to give some emotional attachment to Charlie. Ever since he went off the deep end in season two I've never really come back around to him until this episode - at that scene. Bringing up season 1 feelings really worked!

Obviously flashing back to season 1 will be needed to help explain some things in later episodes, which will be GREAT, but these flashbacks that are used to purely spark emotion I think are a little cheap. Probably not the right word; hopefully someone understands me.

I feel like they're playing off season 1 instances to add a solid foundation back to the show. I know I cant be alone here.



I think it's a good idea that the writers are trying to make connections from season to season. It's good to go back to the premise of the show every once in a while so that we touch bases and see the continuities.