Ever since "The Man Behind The Curtain", fans have speculated that
Richard may be an "ageless pirate" because he looks exactly the same
in 2004 as he did when he first met young Ben.

I'm not one of those fans. I did not think Richard looked exactly the
same when he met Ben. I thought they tried to make him look like a
young hippie by giving him long hair and Don Johnson stubble.

When Richard first appeared in "Not in Portland" there were fans
speculating that his character was actually older than he may wish
others to believe. If you check the Discussion page on this episode
at Lostpedia you'll see fans commenting that he has specks of gray in
hair and that he looks like he wears a lot of makeup. I did not notice
either of these things but it's another indication of how some fans
see one thing while others may not.

On "The Answers" the producers of LOST said that the Dharma Initiative
started in the "late 70's/early 80's". Okay so let's say Ben first met
Richard in 1980. That would be about 24 years before the current
happenings on the island.

In light of this I still say it is not unreasonable to put Richard in
his 20s when he met Ben and his 40s now.
And now let's hear from the "ageless pirate" crowd...

It is mathematically plausible, I'll give you that. It just seems that Ben is the older, or older looking, of the two. Richard could easily be in his mid-40's, but then how old is Ben? Maybe it's just that Richard has a more classically handsome face, fuller hair, and fitter body that makes him look younger???

It just doesn't look right, and I think that's what has everyone in a tizzy.

Ever since "The Man Behind The Curtain", fans have speculated that
Richard may be an "ageless pirate" because he looks exactly the same
in 2004 as he did when he first met young Ben.

I'm not one of those fans. I did not think Richard looked exactly the
same when he met Ben. I thought they tried to make him look like a
young hippie by giving him long hair and Don Johnson stubble.

When Richard first appeared in "Not in Portland" there were fans
speculating that his character was actually older than he may wish
others to believe. If you check the Discussion page on this episode
at Lostpedia you'll see fans commenting that he has specks of gray in
hair and that he looks like he wears a lot of makeup. I did not notice
either of these things but it's another indication of how some fans
see one thing while others may not.

On "The Answers" the producers of LOST said that the Dharma Initiative
started in the "late 70's/early 80's". Okay so let's say Ben first met
Richard in 1980. That would be about 24 years before the current
happenings on the island.

In light of this I still say it is not unreasonable to put Richard in
his 20s when he met Ben and his 40s now.
And now let's hear from the "ageless pirate" crowd...

So Ben is only 11 + 24 = 35? and Richard is 20~30 + 24 = 44~54

All I can say is that Ben looks older than 35 (I am 30, and he is considerably older looking than I am) and Richard looks younger than 44~54, He looks more like 35.

I am not in the "Richard is a Pirate" club, but I do agree that Richard is very old, and that the Long haired guy is the same Richard and not Richard's father or any nonsense like that. I think that Richard was a Sailor on the Black Rock, the Black Rock was a trade ship of a very wealthy man (Magnus Hanso, owner of a large trading Co. [info from Lost Experience, and not a spoiler])

My six main points for Richard being old, and I have posted them many times and I will share agian:
1. No apparent aging in the 3 times we saw him (just a haircut)
2. His odd clothing when he met young Ben
3. His very old gun when he met young Ben (Luger P-08, designed in the 1800's)
4. "It's a birthday present. You do remember birthdays don't you?" - Ben's comment to Richard
5. "no matter how much time you spend on the island, you never get tired of this view" - Richard to Locke on the hill.
6. "you're gonna be amazed at how time flies once you're there" - Richard to Julie

The quotes seem awfully weird if he is a normal guy aging at a normal rate, and with an Orangutan that is 106 years old which was a "Hanso Foundation" experiment, think about it. Alavar Hanso founded the foundation, is he more than 100 years old? how did they get a Orangutan that is older than the business that started the experiments?

I think that the island does do something with aging.

However, why does Ben seem to age (boy to now) and others (no pun intended) do not?

We have only seen how the island effects the Losties over an almost 3 month time period. We can see Aaron grow, but it is kind of hard to judge growth in the adults.

Ever since "The Man Behind The Curtain", fans have speculated that Richard may be an "ageless pirate" because he looks exactly the same in 2004 as he did when he first met young Ben.

Don't forget Ben's question to Richard in the same episode where he asks Richard if he remembers having birthdays. I think that hint with the fact it looks like Richard doesn't look like he has aged indicates he is aging is not normal.

I think the reason Walt was written out of sight is because his growth is out of sync with the timeline on the series. I think "fountain of youth" could be the secret of the island and a good reason to protect the island from outsiders. It will be interesting if Walt shows up again - I think the producers have stated he will. Unless a different actor is used it will take some expaining.

I'll just throw this out there and then duck the flames...

As far as I've heard there's only been two options presented: 1. Richard is just a well-preserved guy in his mid forties (and Ben is just old looking, all that plotting and worrying!:) ) or 2. Richard is ageless/slow-aging because of the fountain-of-youth properties of the island, or his special nature.

There's a third option: He ages like the rest of us, but "stayed young" in spurts, not slowly over time. In other words, he time traveled.

Think about it. He is the ONLY character we have seen who was about the age he is now 24 years ago, THEN LEFT THE ISLAND, then came back. What if he had to travel in the spacetime continuum to leave the island, and when he returned it was years later. What if he had to make that trip several times, exaggerating the effect? For reference, refer to the "Twins Paradox" and "Special Relativity."

(Putting my Flame-Retardant suit on!)

There's a third option: He ages like the rest of us, but "stayed young" in spurts, not slowly over time. In other words, he time traveled.

I like this theory, but I have a 4th option: Richard is from the future, where humans live naturally longer lives!

I think the reason Walt was written out of sight is because his growth is out of sync with the timeline on the series. I think "fountain of youth" could be the secret of the island and a good reason to protect the island from outsiders. It will be interesting if Walt shows up again - I think the producers have stated he will. Unless a different actor is used it will take some expaining.


If Walt is not on the island which as far as we know he isn't, then the Island cannot be keeping him young.

I have a question, is there a discussion anywhere about Richard Alpert being a partner of Timothy Leary and becoming Baba Ram Dass?

I imagine that Richard will look quite different if Nestor Carbonell indeed is leaving to do his own series next year. Either way, this is somewhat maddening. When you look at how Ben's dad aged via makeup, it's hard to chalk this up to just bad makeup. What is interesting is how different our main Losties look from the early clips, Josh Holloway mainly.

So Ben is only 11 + 24 = 35? and Richard is 20~30 + 24 = 44~54

All I can say is that Ben looks older than 35 (I am 30, and he is considerably older looking than I am) and Richard looks younger than 44~54, He looks more like 35.

I am not in the "Richard is a Pirate" club, but I do agree that Richard is very old, and that the Long haired guy is the same Richard and not Richard's father or any nonsense like that. I think that Richard was a Sailor on the Black Rock, the Black Rock was a trade ship of a very wealthy man (Magnus Hanso, owner of a large trading Co. [info from Lost Experience, and not a spoiler])

My six main points for Richard being old, and I have posted them many times and I will share agian:
1. No apparent aging in the 3 times we saw him (just a haircut)
2. His odd clothing when he met young Ben
3. His very old gun when he met young Ben (Luger P-08, designed in the 1800's)
4. "It's a birthday present. You do remember birthdays don't you?" - Ben's comment to Richard
5. "no matter how much time you spend on the island, you never get tired of this view" - Richard to Locke on the hill.
6. "you're gonna be amazed at how time flies once you're there" - Richard to Julie

The quotes seem awfully weird if he is a normal guy aging at a normal rate, and with an Orangutan that is 106 years old which was a "Hanso Foundation" experiment, think about it. Alavar Hanso founded the foundation, is he more than 100 years old? how did they get a Orangutan that is older than the business that started the experiments?You said it all! But let me add thins. I'm sure that TPTB knew that at some point Richard would be meeting young Ben. So ... why not simply age the current Richard so the meeting with young Ben would look like Richard had aged normally? It's much easier to age someone than turn the clock back so the only reason I can see is that ... he's older, yes, but doesn't age as normal people do. Now whether it's because of something Hanso did or if DHARMA came to the island to study these people because they (some how) found out about their slow aging process, I don't know (though I like the second more than the first idea myself).

Don't forget Ben's question to Richard in the same episode where he asks Richard if he remembers having birthdays. I think that hint with the fact it looks like Richard doesn't look like he has aged indicates he is aging is not normal.

A person continues to have birthdays even if they stop physically aging. So using this line as evidence that Richard doesn't age doesn't really make sense. I intend never to die and I still want my cake every year!

The "You remember birthdays?" line is subject to interpretation. Ben said this on his own birthday which was the anniversary of the Purge. I think Ben was reminding Richard of that day. In other words, You do remember the time you killed all those people, don't you, Richard?"
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There's a third option: He ages like the rest of us, but "stayed young" in spurts, not slowly over time. In other words, he time traveled.


I like this theory better than the "ageless pirate" one!:)

Maybe a trip in the submarine is a journey of both space and time. This would probably be unsettling for novices and would explain why they sedated Juliet. It could also explain why the Looking Glass is actually referred to as a "hatch" (as opposed to a station). Perhaps it is a hatch or portal to another time.

A person continues to have birthdays even if they stop physically aging. So using this line as evidence that Richard doesn't age doesn't really make sense. I intend never to die and I still want my cake every year!

The "You remember birthdays?" line is subject to interpretation. Ben said this on his own birthday which was the anniversary of the Purge. I think Ben was reminding Richard of that day. In other words, You do remember the time you killed all those people, don't you, Richard?"
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I like this theory better than the "ageless pirate" one!:)

Maybe a trip in the submarine is a journey of both space and time. This would probably be unsettling for novices and would explain why they sedated Juliet. It could also explain why the Looking Glass is actually referred to as a "hatch" (as opposed to a station). Perhaps it is a hatch or portal to another time.Trust me when I say that I know what it's like to have a theory and not want to let it go. ;) But Gregg Nations himself said that Richard's age is something to focus on. You can read his post here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1545250&postcount=2

Of course that "might" include time travel but I don't think so. Why? Because the theory of TT has you your same age at the time of departure as the age going back and forth. Time changes but not the traveler. If they did, they'd never be able to go back farther than when they were adults for fear of becoming a child and not knowing what to do or how to get back (and technically, if we grew younger or older as we went back and forth in time our memories would be affected, too. Going back one minute before we knew what we had done would take away the memory of what we just did). So even if Richard has/does travel time, it wouldn't affect his actual age. There is much evidence in DHARMA experiments alone that point to Alpert being someone that either never grows old or ages so slowly that he's going to look like that for some time to come.

A person continues to have birthdays even if they stop physically aging. So using this line as evidence that Richard doesn't age doesn't really make sense. I intend never to die and I still want my cake every year!


Not that I am a believer in the ageless man theory, but I can see how if someone were 100+ years old, you might joke with them about "you remember birthdays, don't you?" I stopped thinking about birthdays a while back and I'm only in my 30s!!!
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I like this theory, but I have a 4th option: Richard is from the future, where humans live naturally longer lives!

Hmmm, you're right.

There's a 5th option too! He's an android and doesn't age at all. Cyberdyne Systems. Season Finale, he'll take Locke out of the pit and say, "come with me if you want to live!"

:)

Not that I am a believer in the ageless man theory, but I can see how if someone were 100+ years old, you might joke with them about "you remember birthdays, don't you?" I stopped thinking about birthdays a while back and I'm only in my 30s!!!
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:)

Yea seriously, if you were ~150 years old, youd stop counting, esp if you wernt counting to anything, we count the years till our death, if you never knew when you were gonna die and you lived over 150 yeas and you looked like you were thirty you would stop caring how old you were. One thing to note, many of the others are Paired off into couples, there are quite a few men that are not paired off with women, and Alpert is one of them, Tom is another. We might see more, one of the problems of being eteraly young is that your lovedones will always grow old and die unless they are the same as you, and if so I have pity on your soul.

Yea seriously, if you were ~150 years old, youd stop counting, esp if you wernt counting to anything, we count the years till our death, if you never knew when you were gonna die and you lived over 150 yeas and you looked like you were thirty you would stop caring how old you were. One thing to note, many of the others are Paired off into couples, there are quite a few men that are not paired off with women, and Alpert is one of them, Tom is another. We might see more, one of the problems of being eteraly young is that your lovedones will always grow old and die unless they are the same as you, and if so I have pity on your soul.Oooh, like the Portrait of Dorian Gray! (which, btw, Ian did the title role in England on stage. :biggrin:) That would suck, wouldn't it?

Trust me when I say that I know what it's like to have a theory and not want to let it go. ;)

But I'm not the one with the "ageless pirate" theory. I'm the one who thinks it's silly and who is trying to shoot it down. :biggrin:

But Gregg Nations himself said that Richard's age is something to focus on. You can read his post here: http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1545250&postcount=2[/quote

Not only did I read it. I'll reprint it here:
"I think the aging of Richard is not something that was forgotten about or a mistake. I think it may be an important thing to think about and see where that particular idea goes."


"I think..."

"I think it may be an important thing..."

Sounds to me he's speculating like the rest of us! Now if he had given a direct quote from the script that said "RICHARD APPEARS IN THE JUNGLE LOOKING EXACTLY THE SAME AS HE DOES NOW", then I'd be convinced.

So even if Richard has/does travel time, it wouldn't affect his actual age.
I believe that was the basis of Not A Good Person's theory so I don't understand your problem with it.
There is much evidence in DHARMA experiments alone that point to Alpert being someone that either never grows old or ages so slowly that he's going to look like that for some time to come.
What evidence? What experiments?
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I stopped thinking about birthdays a while back and I'm only in my 30s!!!
Can I have your cake?

There's a 5th option too! He's an android and doesn't age at all. :)
I like that theory better than the Ageless Pirate theory too!:biggrin:

I didn't think he looked the same at all. The first one was made to look very young and the second was was a much older adult than the first.

Yea seriously, if you were ~150 years old, youd stop counting, esp if you wernt counting to anything

Are you kidding? For my 150th birthday I'd expect a boatload of gifts! And don't even get me started on what I should get for my bicentennial!

we count the years till our death
We do? Not unless a doctor gives us a terminal prognosis!
I'm not inviting you to my 150th birthday if that's your attitude!
So there.
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I didn't think he looked the same at all. The first one was made to look very young and the second was was a much older adult than the first.

We'd all be great eyewitnesses at a trial, wouldn't we? :biggrin:

I'm not in love with the ageless pirate theory myself, but have no doubt that Richard has either not aged or has aged extremely slowly since meeting young Ben. ----All the speculation about time travel, the Mittelos acronym, "you'd be surprised how time flies" and let's not forget Richard showing Juliet x-rays of what looks to her like the uterus of an 80-something yr. old but actually belongs to a 20-something year old. There gotta be something to it.---That x-ray sounds like it could be of one of Richard's peeps.--- --The Dharmas aged, the Lostee Baby born-on-the-island Aaron ages-must be something unique to Richard's group.----Maybe the Dharmas, "the incident", or something of the sort changed the island's fountain of youth qualities. Maybe it's one of the things that the Others were originally working on restoring before Ben became consumed with the pregnancy/baby issue?
Anyway or how, something's up with time/age.

Um hello, does the name Joop mean anything.

Dharma was experimenting in life extension as shown in a couple videos. Its most likely plausible that Richard being a hostile was experimented on and the experiment he got was the life extension program causing him to age but at a very slow rate.

Also just an FYI but Karl also is older than he appears because he to got the life extension program.

But I'm not the one with the "ageless pirate" theory. I'm the one who thinks it's silly and who is trying to shoot it down. :biggrin:


Not only did I read it. I'll reprint it here:
"I think the aging of Richard is not something that was forgotten about or a mistake. I think it may be an important thing to think about and see where that particular idea goes."


"I think..."

"I think it may be an important thing..."

Sounds to me he's speculating like the rest of us! Now if he had given a direct quote from the script that said "RICHARD APPEARS IN THE JUNGLE LOOKING EXACTLY THE SAME AS HE DOES NOW", then I'd be convinced.


I believe that was the basis of Not A Good Person's theory so I don't understand your problem with it.

What evidence? What experiments?
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Can I have your cake?

I like that theory better than the Ageless Pirate theory too!:biggrin:But that IS your theory ... that he ages like normal people do. And as for Gregg's "I think" ... you have to understand that he cannot give away spoilers anymore than any other member of this show. The fact that he tells us to pay attention to it says that it is important. He is telling us that the fact that they did not try to make Richard look younger or older in his current state is vital to the case that there IS something up with his looking the same then as he does now. And FWTW, I only thought "pirate" until I learned more about the Black Rock and found that it was not a pirate ship. So ageless, yes ... pirate, no. :biggrin:

Um hello, does the name Joop mean anything.

Um...Hi there!:biggrin:

It doesn't mean anything in English as far as I know.
I'll bite. What is "Joop?"
Someone mentioned this in another thread but I don't think he/she ever explained.

Dharma was experimenting in life extension as shown in a couple videos.
I don't remember life extension being mentioned in any of the videos. I remember the Swan video mentioning electomagnetism, meteorology, zoology, parapsychology and utopian societies. The Pearl video dealt only with psychology.

Also just an FYI but Karl also is older than he appears because he to got the life extension program.
He did? Which episode was this mentioned in? Are you sure we are watching the same show?
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But that IS your theory ... that he ages like normal people do.

LOL I wouldn't call that a theory (unless people aging at different rates is the norm!)! I think it's safe to assume everyone ages at the same rate until substantial evidence to the contrary is presented. I don't need to craft a "theory" to say Richard was in his 20s when he met Ben and is in his 40s now.

Now if someone wants to make the claim that he was in his 40s then and he is still in his 40s now, they're the ones who have to concoct a "theory" (and hopefully have some evidence to back it beyond "He looked the same to me."). Sayid looks the same to me now as he did in the Gulf War but I'm not about to propose the outrageous notion that he doesn't age! In real life Kevin Tighe and Terry O'Quinn, who play father and son on LOST, are close in age. Is anyone going to suggest Locke's father stopped aging at some point too? Let's be fair with all this non-aging supposition. Why is only Richard being placed under the microscope here? LOST has been chock full of flashbacks where we had to suspend our disbelief and accept the character as younger than our eyes tell us. Remember Jack and his bad wig in "Man of Science, Man of Faith"? How about Claire as a teenager? Does it bother anyone that they didn't get a teenage actress to play that part?


And as for Gregg's "I think" ... you have to understand that he cannot give away spoilers anymore than any other member of this show. The fact that he tells us to pay attention to it says that it is important. He is telling us that the fact that they did not try to make Richard look younger or older in his current state is vital to the case that there IS something up with his looking the same then as he does now. And FWTW, I only thought "pirate" until I learned more about the Black Rock and found that it was not a pirate ship. So ageless, yes ... pirate, no. :biggrin:

I don't know what this Gregg Nationss's track record is as far as giving reliable clues. I think we will just have to wait and see.

Joop is a 100 year old monkey or orangutan(SP) that the DI "made" with there Life Extension Project

The DI's LE was on there website check it out, actually it is the Hanso Foundation's website it is the first one listed at the bottom of the page LEP.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

In Every Man For Himself Jack estimates Ben's age at approximately 40 years old. When we first see Ben meet Richard he (Ben) couldn't really be any older then 13. So there is about 27 (or so) years in between then and now where Richard has shown no real signs of aging. We've seen Ben, Ben's dad and Horace Goodspeed all age normally during that time while Richard maintains his youthful good looks, that isn't normal. No one naturally ages that well, there is more story to be told there.
I've got no idea what it could be or why it only seems to be effecting him (as far as we have been shown), but that's why I love this show.

Joop is a 100 year old monkey or orangutan(SP) that the DI "made" with there Life Extension Project

The DI's LE was on there website check it out, actually it is the Hanso Foundation's website it is the first one listed at the bottom of the page LEP.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/

Oh, is this a "Lost Experience" thing?

I didn't trouble myself with that nonsense.

I don't think someone should be required to play computer games, read novels, put together jigsaw puzzles or fish a secret decoder ring out of a box of Dharma-Os to understand what's going on on a TV show.
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In Every Man For Himself Jack estimates Ben's age at approximately 40 years old. When we first see Ben meet Richard he (Ben) couldn't really be any older then 13. So there is about 27 (or so) years in between then and now where Richard has shown no real signs of aging.

Let's say Richard was about 20 years old when he met Ben. That means he would now be in his middle-to-late 40s. What signs of aging do you expect to see? Is Richard supposed to be walking around with a cane and an ear trumpet now?:biggrin:

All good points.
Could be that the Richard/Ben flashback was just like anyone elses. The only exception, and maybe the main reason so many are doubting Richard's aging, is that this flashback is the only one that shows two current adult characters-one being played by the same actor in past and present and the other being played by a child actor for the past/adult actor for the present.
Plus the fact that Richard is the only character that we know could be indigenious (sp) to the island.

Okay lets say Richard is an ageless pirate.

Maybe he ages very slowly or not at all because he is as Locke would say intune with the island.
Which is something Ben is not. Which is what peeked his interest in Locke in the first place.
Maybe Ben has never been able to figure out just what is so different between him and Richard, that he ages and doesn't heal quickly, yet Richard doesn't age.

Maybe Ben has out aged Richard, which caused him to look for someone else with the answer. Locke because he completely healed when he crashed on the island.

Maybe it just isn't Richard. Maybe some of the Others are aging normally while others are not.
Maybe that is what this whole baby thing is about. Maybe they need childern to see if they will all grow up, if so at what rate of speed, at what age does the aging prosses slow down or stop?
Why does it work for some people and not others?

Oh, is this a "Lost Experience" thing?

I didn't trouble myself with that nonsense.

I don't think someone should be required to play computer games, read novels, put together jigsaw puzzles or fish a secret decoder ring out of a box of Dharma-Os to understand what's going on on a TV show.
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Let's say Richard was about 20 years old when he met Ben. That means he would now be in his middle-to-late 40s. What signs of aging do you expect to see? Is Richard supposed to be walking around with a cane and an ear trumpet now?:biggrin:


Go take a look at Ben when he meets Richard. He is a little boy. Then look at Ben when he purges all of Dharma and you will see they removed all of his age marks like age lines, wrinkles and such. Now go look at present day and Ben is easily a man in his 40's.

Now go look at Richard. Out of the 3 time periods we saw him, the only difference was that he had long hair. Even just look at the purge and now. Ben has aged signifigantly getting wrinkles, age spots and such and Richard looks EXACTLY like he did during the purge. EXACTLY.


The question you need to ask yourself is why when Ben has aged in his apperence has Richard not.

Here is another thing, is there is absolutly nothing to this Richard is slowly aging theory then why on earth did TPTB not use a child actor when Richard 1st meet Ben or another Hostle we have yet to see? Why did they purposlyy choose Richard as an adult. When on this show have they every done ANYTHING that didn't mean something? NEVER.


Adult Richard meeting child Ben is used to show there is something up with Richards age.Plain and simple. Anyone who can't notice that may just not want to believe it this idea because they don't like said idea. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, 99.99999999999% of the time its a duck.
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Oh, is this a "Lost Experience" thing?

I didn't trouble myself with that nonsense.

I don't think someone should be required to play computer games, read novels, put together jigsaw puzzles or fish a secret decoder ring out of a box of Dharma-Os to understand what's going on on a TV show.
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Let's say Richard was about 20 years old when he met Ben. That means he would now be in his middle-to-late 40s. What signs of aging do you expect to see? Is Richard supposed to be walking around with a cane and an ear trumpet now?:biggrin:

The Lost experience is just as much part of a show as the podcasts, the extra's on the dvd's and the extra Lost answers shows are.

If you ignore then you are missing out on part of the show. Your cheating yourself out of the ENTIRE LOst experience.

Let's say Richard was about 20 years old when he met Ben. That means he would now be in his middle-to-late 40s. What signs of aging do you expect to see? Is Richard supposed to be walking around with a cane and an ear trumpet now?:biggrin:

No, but I would have expected them to slap on a load of make-up to make him look younger, as they did for Michael Emerson in his Purge flashback (which would have been only half the time). And as I said, we can clearly see what the time passing has done to Ben's dad and Horace Goodspeed, yet Richard remains unchanged.

I don't know what this Gregg Nationss's track record is as far as giving reliable clues. I think we will just have to wait and see.This Gregg Nations is the script coordinator and one of the VIPs so what he says is taken as fact. We don't dispute what the VIPs tell us.

The reason what you're believing is a theory is because this is Lost and anything goes. It's all theory until it's proven. :biggrin: So, I'm going to beg off of this thread because I'll just be repeating myself. When a VIP says it's something ... that's the end of it for me.

So ... why not simply age the current Richard so the meeting with young Ben would look like Richard had aged normally? It's much easier to age someone than turn the clock back...The "current" Richard is in way more scenes. It's much easier to age (or de-age) someone in a brief flashback, as opposed to every time they appear.

Sounds to me [Gregg Nations is] speculating like the rest of us! Now if he had given a direct quote from the script that said "RICHARD APPEARS IN THE JUNGLE LOOKING EXACTLY THE SAME AS HE DOES NOW", then I'd be convinced.When something is of no importance, Gregg will say so outright (he's also how we know about production errors like Rachel's cancer scan...). Anyway, the fact he said "ageless Richard" was something to think about means it's most likely intentional.

Personally, like you I never got the impression Richard was ageless from watching the show. I thought the long hair was an indication of aging, just as Ben's dad had long hair when he was younger. However, Gregg's response has made me suspect the Ageless Pirate Theory has credence. :undecide:

I don't think someone should be required to play computer games, read novels, put together jigsaw puzzles or fish a secret decoder ring out of a box of Dharma-Os to understand what's going on on a TV show.Yeah, I didn't do the Lost Experience thing either. If Richard truly is ageless, we'll find out about it for sure on the show directly. But that certainly doesn't mean there's no additional evidence elsewhere...

Maybe Bens stress level makes him age faster then other people. Kidnapping and controlling, manipulating, etc must add quite a bit to your stress level.

Now go look at Richard. Out of the 3 time periods we saw him, the only difference was that he had long hair. Even just look at the purge and now. Ben has aged signifigantly getting wrinkles, age spots and such and Richard looks EXACTLY like he did during the purge. EXACTLY.

Not "exactly". He had longer hair and Don Johnson stubble. I thought he looked younger and so did some other people.


Here is another thing, is there is absolutly nothing to this Richard is slowly aging theory then why on earth did TPTB not use a child actor when Richard 1st meet Ben or another Hostle we have yet to see? Why did they purposlyy choose Richard as an adult. When on this show have they every done ANYTHING that didn't mean something? NEVER.
"Never"? How about when they didn't use a real teenager to play a teenage Claire? Are you saying there is some meaning behind this? They did this because they thought the same actress who plays Claire could pass for her teenage self. They also thought the actor who plays Richard could pass for a 20-something-year-old version of himself.

After you explain why teenage Claire was not played by a teenager you can go on to explain why Jack is obviously wearing a bad wig in "Man of Science, Man of Faith." According to you, this must have been done for a reason, yeah?
Of course, I kid. :biggrin:

Adult Richard meeting child Ben is used to show there is something up with Richards age.Plain and simple. Anyone who can't notice that may just not want to believe it this idea because they don't like said idea.
All I noticed is that Richard is about 10 years older than Ben. Anyone who thinks it has something to do with life extension has spent too much time on the Lost Experience.

The Lost experience is just as much part of a show as the podcasts, the extra's on the dvd's and the extra Lost answers shows are.
You forgot the novels and jig-saw puzzles.

If you ignore then you are missing out on part of the show. Your cheating yourself out of the ENTIRE LOst experience.
Life goes on. Neither Jack, Kate, nor Sawyer played the Lost Experience and I don't think it would be fair for me to know more than they do. :)
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No, but I would have expected them to slap on a load of make-up to make him look younger

The actor who plays Richard doesn't have too many wrinkles now, does he?

What kind of makeup job would have made him look younger? They couldn't cover over wrinkles that don't exist. What would you have had them do?

They gave him long hair, Don Johnson stubble and hippie clothes. To some of us Richard did look younger in this flashback.

To others he looked "exactly" the same (This must be some new definition of the word "exactly" which I had previously been unaware of.). :)
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This Gregg Nations is the script coordinator and one of the VIPs so what he says is taken as fact.
Please. No sucking up. It's undignified. j/k
We don't dispute what the VIPs tell us.
The royal "we", yeah? :)

When a VIP says it's something ... that's the end of it for me.

I believe he said something like "I think it may...(be important)"
To me this doesn't sound like a sure thing. (shrug)
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Maybe Bens stress level makes him age faster then other people. Kidnapping and controlling, manipulating, etc must add quite a bit to your stress level.

Yes, I think having the kind of father he did would also take its toll.

I think the reason Walt was written out of sight is because his growth is out of sync with the timeline on the series. I think "fountain of youth" could be the secret of the island and a good reason to protect the island from outsiders. It will be interesting if Walt shows up again - I think the producers have stated he will. Unless a different actor is used it will take some expaining.
Unless they have already shot those scenes.

Good grief. All I can say is that it's excruciatingly obvious to me that the show was trying to make it clear that Richard either doesn't age or ages very slowly, and that anyone who doesn't think that's excruciatingly clear is being willfully obstinate.

All I can say is that it's excruciatingly obvious to me that the show was trying to make it clear that Richard either doesn't age or ages very slowly, and that anyone who doesn't think that's excruciatingly clear is being willfully obstinate.Haha! It'll be "excrutatingly clear" ( :rolleyes: ) when Richard actually tells us how old he is. Frankly, not giving Richard the long hair would have been a much clearer indication he was exactly the same age...

When Richard's age becomes important, they'll spell it out for us. I remember when people said the wrong date in the "Expose" newspaper scene made it "excrutiatingly clear" a time-shift caused Nikki & Paulo to now be on the plane...

Haha! It'll be "excrutatingly clear" ( :rolleyes: ) when Richard actually tells us how old he is. Frankly, not giving Richard the long hair would have been a much clearer indication he was exactly the same age...

When Richard's age becomes important, they'll spell it out for us. I remember when people said the wrong date in the "Expose" newspaper scene made it "excrutiatingly clear" a time-shift caused Nikki & Paulo to now be on the plane...

The "excrutatingly" is a bit of a strech, but it is very clear. Your talking about one thing in the Nikki/Paulo case, it was a simple prop mistake, that was quickly corrected in the Podcast. There are SIX major clues that there is something going on, and a 7th is Gregg Nations saying that we should be paying attention to the ageing of Richard Alpert, so it is very nearly "excrutatingly clear".

If you wish not to be "spoiled" to non show material read on, but if you choose to remain willfully ignorant stop reading here, It is not in "spoiler" font because it is not considered a "spoiler" it was part of the Lost Experiance, which was the only way to know anything about the Hanso Foundation (the parent Company of the DHARMA Inititave).

This whole topic was started by someone who is willfully ignorant of parts of the show. He seems to not care that the The Hanso Foundation (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Hanso_Foundation) is involved with a Life Extension Project (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Life_Extension_Project) and that Joop the orangutan was found by British explorers in the early 1900's. Joop was 105 in 2005 according to the Hanso Foundation. Quite a coincidence isn't it that it postulated that Richard was a sailor frm the same era that may have a likewise age issue?

Since you need everything spelled out, its a pity th series didn't get cancelled for you, because the 'rushed' finish of the show was going to be: "a cut to a desk and a leather chair, which would turn to reveal Joop saying "Hello I'm Joop. I bet you're wondering who I am", with a pipe in his mouth. Joop would then proceed to explain all of the Island's mysteries in a crisp and satisfactory fashion."

But since we have a show to watch, infact a mystery show, I doubt you will ever get the level of explanation you need to be happy. I am sure they will settle this issue and it will be early in the 4th season, wen it happens I will happy come back to say "I told you so". This thread is usless for anyone that uses more than solely the show for information, which is how the show was intended I might add.

The "excrutatingly" is a bit of a strech, but it is very clear. Your talking about one thing in the Nikki/Paulo case, it was a simple prop mistake, that was quickly corrected in the Podcast.The "excrutiatingly clear" is specifically what I was responding to. It's embarassing hyperbole, and often used for things which are later spelled out to be incorrect.

(And if you were more familiar with the Nikki/Paulo timeshift threories, you would know the newspaper wasn't the only thing that was supposed to be irrefutable evidence. :rolleyes: )

Anyway, to my mind, the Gregg Nations quote is the most compelling reason giving credence to the "Ageless Richard" theory. In your rush to condescension, you apparently missed where I said as much earlier in this thread.

But really, it just doesn't matter. When it becomes a significant plot point, Richard's age will be told to us on the show; the doubt will be removed and threads like this will disappear. If you are unhappy people wish to discuss it in the meantime, why not do yourself a favor and just skip to the next thread?

The "excrutiatingly clear" is specifically what I was responding to. It's embarassing hyperbole, and often used for things which are later spelled out to be incorrect.

(And if you were more familiar with the Nikki/Paulo timeshift threories, you would know the newspaper wasn't the only thing that was supposed to be irrefutable evidence. :rolleyes: )

Anyway, to my mind, the Gregg Nations quote is the most compelling reason giving credence to the "Ageless Richard" theory. In your rush to condescension, you apparently missed where I said as much earlier in this thread.

But really, it just doesn't matter. When it becomes a significant plot point, Richard's age will be told to us on the show; the doubt will be removed and threads like this will disappear. If you are unhappy people wish to discuss it in the meantime, why not do yourself a favor and just skip to the next thread?

Ok forget the 1st time we saw Richard. Let's just talk about the purge and the present. Do you agree that from the time of the purge Richard looks EXACTLY the same excluding the cloths? Now do you agree that Ben has 100% aged from the purge to the present day?

So my question is why has Ben aged when Richard from the purge to now excluding the clothing looks EXACTLY the same?

Do you agree that from the time of the purge Richard looks EXACTLY the same excluding the cloths?I think Richard's hair has been a sticking point with people re: Richard's aging. If they really wanted to show Richard hasn't changed, why change him? (They lengthened Roger's hair for his "young" scenes, too.)

Based on Gregg's comment though, I too am assuming Richard is in fact not aging; but it's just not something I would have considered conclusive from watching the episode.

remembering the scene with the four toed statue.....maybe these not aging people are the real lords of the world.....so we now know that the plane wreckage was found and there were no survivors....this means there is a huge government cover up....

remembering the scene with the four toed statue.....maybe these not aging people are the real lords of the world.....so we now know that the plane wreckage was found and there were no survivors....this means there is a huge government cover up....

AND THERE YOU HAVE IT!:biggrin:

^^we have to take a closer look at richards feet:biggrin:

^^we have to take a closer look at richards feet:biggrin:
You first.:undecide:

Haha! It'll be "excrutatingly clear" ( :rolleyes: ) when Richard actually tells us how old he is. Frankly, not giving Richard the long hair would have been a much clearer indication he was exactly the same age...I totally disagree. They had to make it appear that time had passed, but that Richard didn't physically age (or age much). They used the differences in hair length and clothing to show that time had passed... that we weren't literally looking at "Richard from the present" when we saw him in Ben's flashback. If his hair and clothing had been the same then as they are now, then people would be saying that Richard-from-the-present had time-traveled back to recruit Ben or something, and that's not the idea.
When Richard's age becomes important, they'll spell it out for us.They did spell it out for us, IMO. Granted, they haven't shown us Richard's birth certificate or anything, but they have shown a span of apparently 25-30 years passing between a flashback and the present, with one character in the flashback looking obviously older, and the other virtually unchanged except for a shave, a haircut, and a new set of threads. That's as "spelled out" as it needs to be, IMO.

Granted, they haven't shown us Richard's birth certificate or anything, but they have shown a span of apparently 15-20 years passing between a flashback and the present, with one character in the flashback looking obviously older, and the other virtually unchanged except for a shave, a haircut, and a new set of threads. That's as "spelled out" as it needs to be, IMO.Right, and opinions differ. We've established that.

But regardless, right now it's just trivia. If Richard's agelessness is ever going to have some bearing on the plot, it will be spelled out specifically and deliberately. As distasteful to you as that apparently is... :rolleyes:

But regardless, right now it's just trivia. If Richard's agelessness is ever going to have some bearing on the plot, it will be spelled out specifically and deliberately. As distasteful to you as that apparently is... :rolleyes:How do you get from the idea that I think they've already made it clear that there's something odd about Richard's aging, to thinking that I will somehow find it "distasteful" if they go into more detail on that plot element? That doesn't even make any sense... :confused:

FWIW, I agree with you, at least partially. I agree that they will go into more detail about Richard's agelessness in order to explain how it's relevant to the plot. Where we differ is (A) I don't really think there's any question that his agelessness will come to bear on the plot; I can't imagine them introducing an element like that, then not using it, and (B) I think they've already made it clear that Richard is "ageless" in some way. I don't think it's a question of "Is Richard ageless or not?" I think it's a question of "What are the details of his agelessness, and how will it affect things?"

Right, and opinions differ. We've established that.

But regardless, right now it's just trivia. If Richard's agelessness is ever going to have some bearing on the plot, it will be spelled out specifically and deliberately. As distasteful to you as that apparently is... :rolleyes:
Using that as a basis, every theory is just trivia. Is Locke dead? It's trivia till we see him again. Is Jacob for real? It's trivial until we are shown more.

It seems to me that is not a very productive attitude to have on a speculative discussion board.

I think it's safe to say that it wasn't the hair/make-up department that neglected to age or "de-age" Richard, because they did a really good job on Roger Work Man and pretty good one on Ben too.

Using that as a basis, every theory is just trivia. Is Locke dead? It's trivia till we see him again. Is Jacob for real? It's trivial until we are shown more.Not exactly... Locke's living or dying (for example) would have a substantial impact on the plot either way, as his significance has been established throughout the entire series.

Richard's age, on the other hand, while giving us some interesting background information, would at this point have little direct relevance to the story of the Losties crashing on an island and searching for a way home.

It seems to me that is not a very productive attitude to have on a speculative discussion board.Hehe. I was actually responding to a post which implied the matter was unquestionably settled and therefore not worth discussing. I took the opposite side in that respect; I love talking about these things here.

Hehe. I was actually responding to a post which implied the matter was unquestionably settled and therefore not worth discussing.And just to beat a dead horse even more (;)), I still do think the question of whether or not there's something odd about Richard's (lack of) aging is settled. I think there clearly is something odd about it. And I think it's totally worth discussing what exactly that oddity is, and what it might mean for the storyline. The only part I don't personally think is worth discussing is whether or not there's something odd about Richard's aging. That, I think, has been clearly settled; there is. :)

To me, Ben looks older than Richard, currently. But I might be able to accept that Richard is a couple years older than Ben. I cannot accept that Richard is 10-20 years older than Ben. There's just NO way. No amount of Oil of Olay would produce such an occurrence. If anything, Richard would have been casted by a CHILD or teenaged actor (like Ben). I am not a big theorist, but this is one theory that just makes the most sense. It's not a matter of ignoring Occam's Razor, but rather the opposite. This IS the simplest explanation. Again, I'll say that I usually don't care about theories myself, but it's funny to me that some people seem to think that the idea of an ageless character is so unbelievable in a show with smoke monsters, four toed statues and a guy that can see the future.

The fact that they cast a child to play Ben means that they are aware that it wouldn't make sense to put Michael Emerson in overalls with Harry Potter glasses. Obviously, the same logic would have been used for Richard -- IF Richard was meant to age properly.

Long hair does not a young man make.

I still do think the question of whether or not there's something odd about Richard's (lack of) aging is settled. The only part I don't personally think is worth discussing is whether or not there's something odd about Richard's aging. It's just a matter of opinion. The fact you think it's settled means nothing to someone who isn't quite as sure. I mean, it's nothing personal or anything. If you don't think it's worth discussing, then don't! :)

it's funny to me that some people seem to think that the idea of an ageless character is so unbelievable in a show with smoke monsters, four toed statues and a guy that can see the future.I think the issue may not be so much the believability but whether it's been conclusively demonstrated. Gregg Nations' comment was enough to convince me. But even so, I did think Richard looked younger with long hair, whether it was intended or not. :D

Using that as a basis, every theory is just trivia. Is Locke dead? It's trivia till we see him again. Is Jacob for real? It's trivial until we are shown more.

It seems to me that is not a very productive attitude to have on a speculative discussion board.

And dissing someone else's attitude is?:biggrin:

I think we should all just agree on everything and never debate!:biggrin:

And remember, kiddies, anyone who doesn't share your opinion is stupid!:biggrin:
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And just to beat a dead horse even more (;)), I still do think the question of whether or not there's something odd about Richard's (lack of) aging is settled.:)

It is?

Did I miss a memo?:biggrin:
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To me, Ben looks older than Richard, currently. But I might be able to accept that Richard is a couple years older than Ben. I cannot accept that Richard is 10-20 years older than Ben. There's just NO way. No amount of Oil of Olay would produce such an occurrence.

You've never seen a 50 year old man look like someone like Richard?

If Richard were 50 what major changes in his appearance would you expect to see?

Not exactly... Locke's living or dying (for example) would have a substantial impact on the plot either way, as his significance has been established throughout the entire series.
It would only have an effect on the plot if they showed the effects of his disappearance, hence making it not trivial according to your guideline. If they never showed Locke again, his ultimate fate would be trivial to the plot.

Richard's age, on the other hand, while giving us some interesting background information, would at this point have little direct relevance to the story of the Losties crashing on an island and searching for a way home.That's a premature conclusion. It could have a huge impact depending on what the reason for his lack of aging is.

And dissing someone else's attitude is?
Why not, you seem to have no problem turning your sarcasm on me. There was no sarcasm in my statement, simply a statement of opinion. Now unless you actually believe there is no point in debate then you are not making a mere statement of opinion.

And remember, kiddies, anyone who doesn't share your opinion is stupid!Don't stick words in my mouth, especially not hyberbole.

The "excrutatingly" is a bit of a strech, but it is very clear. Your talking about one thing in the Nikki/Paulo case, it was a simple prop mistake, that was quickly corrected in the Podcast. There are SIX major clues that there is something going on, and a 7th is Gregg Nations saying that we should be paying attention to the ageing of Richard Alpert, so it is very nearly "excrutatingly clear".

If you wish not to be "spoiled" to non show material read on, but if you choose to remain willfully ignorant stop reading here, It is not in "spoiler" font because it is not considered a "spoiler" it was part of the Lost Experiance, which was the only way to know anything about the Hanso Foundation (the parent Company of the DHARMA Inititave).

This whole topic was started by someone who is willfully ignorant of parts of the show. He seems to not care that the The Hanso Foundation (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Hanso_Foundation) is involved with a Life Extension Project (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Life_Extension_Project) and that Joop the orangutan was found by British explorers in the early 1900's. Joop was 105 in 2005 according to the Hanso Foundation. Quite a coincidence isn't it that it postulated that Richard was a sailor frm the same era that may have a likewise age issue?

Since you need everything spelled out, its a pity th series didn't get cancelled for you, because the 'rushed' finish of the show was going to be: "a cut to a desk and a leather chair, which would turn to reveal Joop saying "Hello I'm Joop. I bet you're wondering who I am", with a pipe in his mouth. Joop would then proceed to explain all of the Island's mysteries in a crisp and satisfactory fashion."

But since we have a show to watch, infact a mystery show, I doubt you will ever get the level of explanation you need to be happy. I am sure they will settle this issue and it will be early in the 4th season, wen it happens I will happy come back to say "I told you so". This thread is usless for anyone that uses more than solely the show for information, which is how the show was intended I might add.

I agree. When you come up with a theory, it's good to consider all of the evidence when forming it. If you choose to stay willfully ignorant of certain parts of Lost, how can you be sure that your theory holds weight, especially when it revolves around a certain subject that was brought up in that other part of the show? And totally disregarding what a VIP says we should pay attention to, just to cling to a theory is bad form. But I see it happen all the time around here... (purgatory theory).

1) IN THIS EPISODE (The Man Behind the Curtain), we see that extra care is taken to show that Ben, Roger, and Goodspeed show significant signs of aging, while in the time from young Ben's encounter with Richard to now, we don't see any difference aside from a shave and a haircut.

2) Gregg Nations said that we should pay attention to Richard's age.

3) Info from the Lost Experience.


At this point, I think there is more evidence supporting that something interesting is going on with Richard's age than not. But since we haven't been beaten over the head with it from a line of dialogue on the show or shown pop-up video bubbles that say "NOTICE! Richard has not aged" we will continue to have these circular debates...:undecide:

Think about it. He is the ONLY character we have seen who was about the age he is now 24 years ago, THEN LEFT THE ISLAND, then came back. What if he had to travel in the spacetime continuum to leave the island, and when he returned it was years later. What if he had to make that trip several times, exaggerating the effect? For reference, refer to the "Twins Paradox" and "Special Relativity."


Yea, didn't he leave the island on several occasions? Was he there when Juliet was first coming to the island? I know I remember him being the one filming Juliet's sister and nephew in the park in Miami. Hmmm...:rolleyes:

You've never seen a 50 year old man look like someone like Richard?

If Richard were 50 what major changes in his appearance would you expect to see?
I did not say that I've never seen a 50 year old man that looks like Richard. What I said was that I will not accept that Richard is 10-20 years OLDER THAN BEN. No matter what age Ben is, there is no way that Richard is that much older than him. It's just not even worth considering. It's like debating that the giant foot statue "actually had five toes." Richard could be a couple years older than Ben, but even that is stretching it.

If you think Richard is 50 years old, which I guess he could be, that means Ben would have to be 30-35, which is just unbelievable. Why not suggest that Sayid is a teenager? Shannon was 12. I'm trying not to be facetious. These examples are quite equivalent.

The fact that this is even in question should be a huge shiny arrow pointing to a neon sign that says in blinking letters, "Something is not right." They could have easily used a child actor to play Richard in the flashback. Why didn't they? They could have used makeup to make Nestor Carbonell's FACE look younger (like they did to Michael Emerson AND the actor who played his father). But they didn't. Instead, they used the same actor with no makeup. The long hair is itself a red herring. People are saying, "Why have him have long hair at all?" Well, why not? Time had passed. It's not unreasonable that this character would have a different hairstyle 20 years prior.

It would only have an effect on the plot if they showed the effects of his disappearance, hence making it not trivial according to your guideline. If they never showed Locke again, his ultimate fate would be trivial to the plot.The plot thus far has hinged on Locke. His fate is inextricably tied to the story. But at this point, Richard's age, whether 50 or 150, would make no difference.

If Richard's age becomes key to the story (season 4?), it will be stated directly and irrefutably, not merely implied. And you are right, if it does become key to the story, it will no longer simply be trivia!

Anyway, my only point was it was hardly a big enough deal to require name-calling if someone disagreed. Eventually, all will be revealed!
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Don't stick words in my mouth, especially not hyberbole.I wouldn't stick that in my mouth either. You don't know where that hyberbole's been!

I think Richard's hair has been a sticking point with people re: Richard's aging. If they really wanted to show Richard hasn't changed, why change him? (They lengthened Roger's hair for his "young" scenes, too.)


Because they were giving other hints....like maybe where he came from. I don't know why everyone is so down on the pirate theory. If he was a pirate early on, he'd have long hair. Then if he became more current with the times, maybe to give the illusion he was with the Dharma initiative (so that when people like Juliet showed up it wouldn't freak her out), he'd adjust his hair length.

I don't know. I'm a producer (not of this show), and to me Richard is clearly not aging. I had no idea such an explosive discussion would be happening here on the board. I watch Lost faithfully, but don't have much time to be involved in the other areas - like the Lost Experience... I just post on this board occasionally... but I think the producers know what they are doing and to the plain Jane audience (who they have to cater to a little bit) I think it came across as Richard is not aging. My opinion.

I did not say that I've never seen a 50 year old man that looks like Richard. What I said was that I will not accept that Richard is 10-20 years OLDER THAN BEN.
So you can accept Richard as 50 but you can't accept Ben as 40?
No matter what age Ben is, there is no way that Richard is that much older than him.
Why not?
It's just not even worth considering.
I wish you would have told us that earlier. It would have saved a lot of posts!:biggrin:
If you think Richard is 50 years old, which I guess he could be, that means Ben would have to be 30-35
As I said, Richard could be around 50 and Ben could be around 40 (which is what I think Jack approximated his age to be based on the x-ray).

They could have easily used a child actor to play Richard in the flashback. Why didn't they?
Why would they have a child play a 20 year old man?

They could have used makeup to make Nestor Carbonell's FACE look younger
What exactly could they have done? If the actor doesn't have wrinkles then the makeup department has nothing to cover up.

I'll take a wild stab and guess that Richard is staying young at Walt's expense. And possibly Emma's and Zack's. Some kind of drug or chemical regulating the aging process is exchanged between Richard, and maybe others, and the children.

I agree with the fact that the writers and editors of Lost would have done something more to show that Richard has aged. It is obvious that Richard doesn't age or ages very slowly. Why else would they even show Richard in this scene with Ben? Why not just use another Hostile? Because the writers want to show that Richard hasn't aged much if at all since that time. The writers seem to be going down the fact that nothing is quite what it seems on the island. Even the island itself, e.g. it's in the middle of the ocean and invisible!!!! And the fact that Richard was around LONG before Ben yet he listens to Ben. Perhaps Richard in the last survivor of the Hostiles and in fact the leader, yet for protection Ben is portrayed as the leader. I don’t know, it’s all a mystery to me.

So you can accept Richard as 50 but you can't accept Ben as 40?

Why not?

I wish you would have told us that earlier. It would have saved a lot of posts!:biggrin:

As I said, Richard could be around 50 and Ben could be around 40 (which is what I think Jack approximated his age to be based on the x-ray).


Why would they have a child play a 20 year old man?


What exactly could they have done? If the actor doesn't have wrinkles then the makeup department has nothing to cover up.
Everything you say is working off of the assumption that Richard IS older than Ben. We certainly don't know if it's true on the show, but in real life, Michael Emerson is about 13 years older than Nestor Carbonell -- and the point is that it's noticeable. Ben is noticeably older looking than Richard. It's as simple as that. I'd rather not continue to discuss hypotheticals because there will always be questions like, "Why not?" which no one can really answer with any certainty.

So yes, the fact that Emerson is 13 years older than Carbonell makes me believe that there is NO WAY that Ben is 10+ years older than Richard.

Instead of working with the hypothetical assumption that Richard is older than Ben, why not simply work with what we see on the screen? Why is it so difficult to just say that Ben is most likely older than Richard, and something is up with Richard's aging? So, it makes sense that women who conceive on an island die before giving birth, but a person that doesn't age is off limits?

I stand by that Richard would have been played by a child or makeup would have been used to cover the 40 year old's age lines. Just because his face doesn't look like a raisin, doesn't mean it's anywhere close to what a "20" year old's face would look like.

I'll try once more to get an answer to this.

If Richard is aging as anybody else is, then why does he show little to no signs of aging between meeting Ben as a child and present day island time (approximately 30 years) when we have been shown other characters (Ben, Roger Linus and Horace Goodspeed) showing clear and visible signs of aging?

I have an old Italian uncle looks exactly the same (plus or minus a few wrinkles) for the last 30 years.

A good bottle of Just for Men, and the olive skin - bada bing!! You can look the same for 30 years....

:biggrin:

Everything you say is working off of the assumption that Richard IS older than Ben. We certainly don't know if it's true on the show, but in real life, Michael Emerson is about 13 years older than Nestor Carbonell -- and the point is that it's noticeable. Ben is noticeably older looking than Richard. It's as simple as that. I'd rather not continue to discuss hypotheticals because there will always be questions like, "Why not?" which no one can really answer with any certainty.

So yes, the fact that Emerson is 13 years older than Carbonell makes me believe that there is NO WAY that Ben is 10+ years older than Richard.

Instead of working with the hypothetical assumption that Richard is older than Ben, why not simply work with what we see on the screen? Why is it so difficult to just say that Ben is most likely older than Richard, and something is up with Richard's aging? So, it makes sense that women who conceive on an island die before giving birth, but a person that doesn't age is off limits?

I stand by that Richard would have been played by a child or makeup would have been used to cover the 40 year old's age lines. Just because his face doesn't look like a raisin, doesn't mean it's anywhere close to what a "20" year old's face would look like.

There are no assumptions, its 100% fact Richard is older than Ben. We were shown this in Ben's flashback.

There are no assumptions, its 100% fact Richard is older than Ben. We were shown this in Ben's flashback.

Psst! I think he ment comparative, not actual.

Apologies for only reading the first five pages of the thread but I have to go to work now! :)

I'm surprised that no-one has yet thought that the Richard the young Ben met could have been a Christian/Walt/AL type vision. I don't really believe in this theory but I'm just surprised that no-one else has brought it to the table yet :)

Shamu x

Apologies for only reading the first five pages of the thread but I have to go to work now! :)

I'm surprised that no-one has yet thought that the Richard the young Ben met could have been a Christian/Walt/AL type vision. I don't really believe in this theory but I'm just surprised that no-one else has brought it to the table yet :)

Shamu x

I think the reason for that is that those Visions all come from peoples pasts, not their futures, maybe that is the 'change' in the show the producers have been talking about, but I doubt it.

Eg. Walt appeared to people that knew him already, the Horse appeared to Kate who had memories of it, Christian appeared to his son who knew him, Dave appeared to Hurley who had previous memories of him... etc.

Unless Ben knew Richard previous to his coming to the island then I would doubt that it has anything to do with the visions.

Maybe I am wrong here. I'm going by memory only. Someone who has all the episodes can go back and check this. I don't believe that Richard is the first person to display the age discrepency. I remember when Locke and Eko found the video tape in the second hatch and played it. The instructor on the tape is the same guy that is on the 8mm film that was found in the first hatch. The aging of the film and the quality of the video tape indicated a considerable difference in time. Yet the doctor didn't look any older. I was always puzzled as to why one training aid was shot on film and the other on video tape. Maybe it is because they were made years apart.

Just something to think about.

I was always puzzled as to why one training aid was shot on film and the other on video tape. Maybe it is because they were made years apart.Interesting observation!

Also, I think he was missing an arm in one. Was that on the film or the video tape?

Maybe I am wrong here. I'm going by memory only. Someone who has all the episodes can go back and check this. I don't believe that Richard is the first person to display the age discrepency. I remember when Locke and Eko found the video tape in the second hatch and played it. The instructor on the tape is the same guy that is on the 8mm film that was found in the first hatch. The aging of the film and the quality of the video tape indicated a considerable difference in time. Yet the doctor didn't look any older. I was always puzzled as to why one training aid was shot on film and the other on video tape. Maybe it is because they were made years apart.

Just something to think about.

In the Pearl Video (© 1980) Mark Wickmund has 2 functioning arms
The Video player was a Sony u-matic originally made in 1969.

In the Swan Film (© 1980) Marvin Candle has a prosthetic arm.
Open reel film is nearly impossible for us to date without looking at the film its self. (Since he is missing an arm and strenuously warning agianst something I think it is safe to assume this was fimled after the video was made.)

My opinion is that the Video was made before the initiative moved in on the island or soon after when everything was hunky-dory, but then Mr. Flame was involved in an 'incident' in which he lost his arm, the 'incident' may have happened because a Swan personnel member did one of the things he wared against in the film. The reason the Swan has film is that it has a huge magnet that would possibly erase a Video cassette. The Copyright segment is prob just a standard video ending that they use on all the instructional videos they produced. I again am guessing that the film and video were produced within 10 years at least of one another possibly 1980 and 1985.

Much of the data and info from the Lostpedia (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Film)

Richard is not the only person to have left the island. When Juliette goes to visit her sister, she bumps into Ethan on the way to Rachel's apartment. Additionally, Ethan performs the pre-trip physical on Juliette, before he brings her to the island.

~ jade ~

I think the reason for that is that those Visions all come from peoples pasts, not their futures, maybe that is the 'change' in the show the producers have been talking about, but I doubt it.

Eg. Walt appeared to people that knew him already, the Horse appeared to Kate who had memories of it, Christian appeared to his son who knew him, Dave appeared to Hurley who had previous memories of him... etc.

Unless Ben knew Richard previous to his coming to the island then I would doubt that it has anything to do with the visions.

I guess I should have explained more clearly :)

My idea (whether or not I actually believe it yet!) was that when lil' Ben saw Richard- he was real and then something happened to him (killed/left whatever!).Now the Richard that we see in real time island action is a vision of Ben's. There are several threads that have noted that no-one actually talks directly to him except for Ben and Locke- maybe that's why he's special :)

Shamu x

Ethan's name can me made into anagram. ETHAN ROM-MORE THAN. I think he is a hostile because he can leave island just like Richard. Maybe the hostiles are more than humans, they dont age, get enchanded strenght (remember Ethan in Homecoming), and if Mikhail is a hostile, he may get a power of not dying.

Richard speaks to more than just Locke and Ben. He has spoken to Ethan and Juliet as well...

Ethan's name can me made into anagram. ETHAN ROM-MORE THAN. I think he is a hostile because he can leave island just like Richard. Maybe the hostiles are more than humans, they dont age, get enchanded strenght (remember Ethan in Homecoming), and if Mikhail is a hostile, he may get a power of not dying.

First, Ethan Rom can also be rearranged to Other Man :p

But that's an interesting theory about the hostiles. Remember Emma, Zach, the teddy bear? That reminds me alot of Peter Pan, with Wendy and her youngest brother and his teddy bear. Since we all know the island has some sort of power, I always thought of the island as sorta Neverland, or something. If the hostiles don't age, then that is just like Neverland.