Charlie could have come out to be with desmond!!!

R.I.P. Charlie.

We loved you.

Charlie could have come out to be with desmond!!!

I thought Charlie was going to run out and be with Desmond, until he ran and shut the door. Charlie probably didn't think he had enough time,plus Desmond had already brainwash him into thinking that he must die, in order for Claire and Aaron to be saved.

...Now that we know how Charlie died, could someone tell me how Mikhail Bakunin manage to live? He should have been dead a long time ago.

I thought Charlie should have just squeezed himself through the window.

He wanted to save Des. If he would've tried to make it out, they both would have died with the rush of the ocean water flooding the Looking Glass. He contained the water to save Desmond. What he did was so truly, beautifully heroic, I still have tears. Then he had the wherewithall to send that message to Des via his hand. Although it wasn't true?

RIP Charlie. Your life made a big difference.

I thought Charlie should have just squeezed himself through the window.

That's what I thought too. But Desmond had Charlie so brainwashed about having to die in order for them to be rescued, he figured it was his destiny.

Charlie closed the door to save Desmond. He knew that once Desmond heard Penny that nothing would stop him, and he could've drowned. I too thought he could've squeezed out the window, but maybe it was too small.

Charlie took his own life to help everyone else get rescued, and even saved Desmond in the process. I loved how he managed to get one final message across: "Not Penny's Boat." How ironic that he wanted to kill Mikhail earlier (in "D.O.C."), but Desmond let him go. Either way you slice it, Charlie was very heroic and went out on top.

I bawled like a little girl. I still feel sick. I am mortified.

yeah i didn't get why he would drown himself but i agree with Diesels... Desmond wouldn't have left that monitor... he was hellbent on seeing Penny and wouldn't have been in his right mind... Charlie died a Hero... the irony of Charlie writing FATE on his finger bandages in Season 1, eh?

I'm pretty sure they just wanted a clever way to write Charlie out of the show.

Charlie most definitley did not HAVE to die.
They could've shut the door from the outside and barred it with something. Even if that weren't possible, the water was coming in through a small hole, and the room was huge; they would've had enough time to slip on the scuba and get out. EVEN if that failed, they could've both dived in and held their breath and swum back to the surface. Swimming up is a lot easier and quicker than swimming down, so if they could hold their breath on the way down and make it, they could make it up.

I'm pretty sure they just wanted a clever way to write Charlie out of the show.

Charlie most definitley did not HAVE to die.
They could've shut the door from the outside and barred it with something. Even if that weren't possible, the water was coming in through a small hole, and the room was huge; they would've had enough time to slip on the scuba and get out. EVEN if that failed, they could've both dived in and held their breath and swum back to the surface. Swimming up is a lot easier and quicker than swimming down, so if they could hold their breath on the way down and make it, they could make it up.

Even though I was thinking along the lines of Charlie swimming out of the hole, I did think he could have swum back up to the surface and saved himself. From the music they played, I'm assuming that Charlie is now off the show, but being this is Lost I can't help thinking that he could still swim out the window and up to the surface and not die. I guess I can hope.

I don't know why Charlie would want Des vision to come true now? He found out Naomi is a lier so why would he want Claire and Aaron on the helicopter in Des's vision. You'd think he'd save himself so the Vision wouldn't happen? He even told Des about the boat not being Pennys.:confused:

I'm still hoping he swims out that little hole, ya he looked dead, but I'm still holding out hope till next season.

If he knew that he had to die eventually since the universe is out to get him, and he could save Desmond in the process, then it makes sense that he would sacrifice himself for the man that saved him so many times in the past.

Plus, if he hadn't died, something might have gone wrong in sending the transmission, like when Naomi landed.

Sad sad sad, but beautiful. Bye bye, Charlie.:rip:

He had enough time to get out of the room and shut the hatch, even though the water was coming in. It wasn't coming in enough to flood the entire place. I think that Charlie wanted to sacrifice himself so that Desmond's vision would come true and Claire and Aaron would get off the island. Interesting how Aaron started to cry at the moment of Charlie's death.

yeah i didn't get why he would drown himself but i agree with Diesels... Desmond wouldn't have left that monitor... he was hellbent on seeing Penny and wouldn't have been in his right mind... Charlie died a Hero... the irony of Charlie writing FATE on his finger bandages in Season 1, eh?:nod: I totally agree.

Well Jack said "get my father down here and if I am drunker than he is, you can fire me" or something like that. Maybe he does not die, things do not stay buried.

He thought the only way Claire would be saved is if he stopped the light and then DIED.

Charlie was all man tonight, I agree with those that have said that he made his choice because he truly believed that he needed to die for Claire and Aaron to be rescued. I'll definitely miss him.

In Pace Requiescat

Please, please, please don't make Charlie's death pointless. I want Claire and Aaron to be rescued and off the island so that they can live happily ever after. PLEASE!!!!!

And yes, I too believe that Desmond would have wanted to get in that room to see Penny. No way would he have been able to get out and keep Desmond out. He saved Desmond's life by scarifying himself.

Charlie's a less than stellar swimmer, and never would have had the strength to fight through the torrent of water pouring through the window.

Add to that the fact that Charlie believed he HAD to die, no matter what happened, in order for Claire and Aaron to live, and his actions are justified.

I bawled like a little girl. I still feel sick. I am mortified.
Me, too.

Might as well kill off Jack. I guess they won't cause of the flash...foward. But 3 of my favorite characters are dead now. How nice.

I also think he didn't have to die. The water wasn't flowing in quick enough. Yes, yes, Desmond and Penny...whatever. Charlie could have gotten out of the door and closed it behind him. They could have jumped back into the water and gotten out.

I can't believe this. I'm so upset.

I'm hoping that there's some freaky timewarp thing going on and that we'll get to see Charlie again. I'm probably just in denial, but that's ok.

Everytime I think of Charlie...my eyes well up.

He died how he should have though. I think that he has by far recieved the best death since the start of the show. He did it out of love to save Claire and Aaron..and he sacrificed himself to save everyone.

So everyone needs to stop calling Jack the hero. Charlie is the real hero here.

It really bothered me in the flash forward where they referred to jack as a hero two times over. If they were talking about getting them rescued?...Thank Charlie...not Jack.

Had it not been for the Rock God..Jack woulda been left up there tinkering with the phone, looking like an idiot.

After re-watching the episode, and taking careful notice that Charlie locked Desmond out before the grenade went off ... I'm pretty sure that Charlie just didn't know what would happen when it went off. It could have made a much larger hole, and thus indeed would have been an immediate problem to the entire station (rather than the relatively small hole from the window that actually happened). And after making the decision to lock himself in to save Desmond/everyone else, the idea to make the sacrifice was probably so set in his mind that he wasn't thinking about all the different possibilities in a coherent manner. I think it was a good death for Charlie - I was never really a big fan of the character, but I definitely shed a tear for his death and found it quite noble.

i thought that was kind of stupid. takes just as much time to close the door from the outside no? And, could he have not swam out the window? he would have gone right up?

Ok, just throwing this out there. But I think the writers left us enough lee-way with the port-hole allowing Charlie to swim out that I think he may show up alive at some point in the future. The water had filled enough of the chamber to equalize the pressure so that if Charlie were as good a swimmer as he said he was (or even if he wasn't and just wanted to survive) he could have swum out of that blown window. He was still moving slightly the last we saw him. I think if they had wanted to show us that he was truly dead, they would have shown it much more blatantly. This is Lost after all.

Add to that the fact that Charlie believed he HAD to die, no matter what happened, in order for Claire and Aaron to live, and his actions are justified.

I agree with this. Plus, if he didn't die, maybe he felt like he would've "changed the picture on the box" and Claire and Aaron wouldn't have been rescued.

There was a reason Charlie escaped death all those times- this is the way he was supposed to die- to be a hero and help save the lives of everyone else.

I think if they had wanted to show us that he was truly dead, they would have shown it much more blatantly. This is Lost after all.

Really? I thought they showed a teensy bit too much for my tastes, but drowning is, like, the scariest way to die in my eyes. I actually thought they'd only show him alive in the water and then cut away, then I would believe that he could be back, but with what they did show, and maybe why they did show it, he seems pretty blatantly dead to me. :frown:

After rewatching this, I thought that Charlie didn't have time to shut it from the outside either and he didn't know that it would just blow the glass in the portal out. Add to that, like others here have said, he believes that if he doesn't die, Claire and Aaron won't be rescued and he thought he was doing what was necessary. The fact that he had presence of mind enough to write that message to Des speaks to his quick thinking too. What moving scenes and, on the rewatch, I noticed him doing the stations of the cross before he died. Wow... I just kept saying, "Oh no, Charlie! Oh no!" Hopefully, we will see him other ways. I sure hope so.

I agree that Charlie didn't have to die. Let's face it, there's no way Mikhael should have been able to swim out to set off a grenade after being speared in the chest. For whatever reason the writers wanted Charlie dead. I'm very upset about that.

I agree, Charlie didn't have to die, but then I think the rush of water might have killed them both. it would have hit Desmond and Charlie but they might have made it. i think it might have been better for them to have them try and swim up but have it too late, if they were going to kill Charlie at all.

Or have them survive. and then shot by Mikal. that would have been shocking.

Really? I thought they showed a teensy bit too much for my tastes, but drowning is, like, the scariest way to die in my eyes. I actually thought they'd only show him alive in the water and then cut away, then I would believe that he could be back, but with what they did show, and maybe why they did show it, he seems pretty blatantly dead to me. :frown:

Yes really. We'll agree to disagree. :)

Yeah I think there's a distinct possibility that Charlie is alive.

While ABC may not have been in the business of showing extremely graphic deaths, it does take longer than what we saw to actually die of drowning. About six minutes, I thought, and the body goes through a final moment of life and has what looks lie a seizure.

Charlie definitely could have made it to the surface in the time he had left. Buoyancy is strong enough, especially in salt water, to allow him to float up to the surface without expending any more effort than simply swimming out the window.

Indeed. All he had to do was close the door. Silly TV, really.

It's an American thing that when you think you're doing drama, you kill people. It never works.

Are we sure the door could be sealed from the outside? Or, maybe Charlie didn't know it could be sealed from outside. Regardless, it was quite a noble death.

Not only did Charlie not have to die, but he SHOULD'T have died. The room shouldn't have filled up above the level of the window (because we know the air pressure in the Looking Glass is already enough to keep the water out of the moon pool. So if you smash a window, water fills up to the height of the window, but no further.)

Sigh. TV physics.

He had to die to save Desmond, and so to send the message that it was not Penny's boat. If he hadn't shut the door from the inside, Desmond wouldn't have let him shut it at all, and they both would have drown. It's true there was suba gear, but that is only a factor if at least one of them knows how to operate scuba gear, and if there were tanks ready to go, at the right mixture, and they knew how to identify which tanks those were -- wouldn't be very probable. As for the window, I thought it was too small, but if it wasn't too small, the odds of surviving the trip to the surface without decompressing wouldn't be good. And his priority was in getting the message to Desmond instead of saving himself.

Ok, this bugged me from a technical standpoint (damn Engineering major always interferes with plot necessitated drama). Anyway, the only breach in the hull appeared to be the porthole window. After the initial torrent of water, the water level inside the room should not have risen above the window (ok, a little above the window, since air is compressible as opposed to water) as the air pressure in the room would eventually equalize with the outside water pressure. There should still have been a good amount of air left. This is the same theory behind the moon pool. The water doesn't rush up because the air inside has no place to be pushed out. The Looking Glass is basically a giant bathosphere. I know they didn't take this into account in writing this episode, and that good story telling trumps physics every time, but this just bugged me.

ETA: Damn you Admiralquality, beat me to the punch by a matter of minutes! Glad to know I'm not the only crazy nit picker though. :)

I'm pretty sure they just wanted a clever way to write Charlie out of the show.

Charlie most definitley did not HAVE to die.
They could've shut the door from the outside and barred it with something. Even if that weren't possible, the water was coming in through a small hole, and the room was huge; they would've had enough time to slip on the scuba and get out. EVEN if that failed, they could've both dived in and held their breath and swum back to the surface. Swimming up is a lot easier and quicker than swimming down, so if they could hold their breath on the way down and make it, they could make it up.We're all here discussing what he could have/should have done but in the reality of the situation Charlie had no time to rationalize things. He barely thought to give Des the message about Penny's boat. All he had time to think of was keeping Des out of the room and since Des had said his vision showed Charlie drowning, Charlie felt that it was how it was supposed to go down. He only had seconds to react. While I agree he had other options, considering how fast everything happened, I think he did the logical thing.

But I have a very heavy heart right now. I cried so hard! When I saw him cross himself and then his arm go limp and float up ... I just lost it. Man, I'm going to miss that cheeky bloke! :hug: for Charlie.

That was just pointless. POINTLESS. :angry: They were even close enough to swim down from the top - for heaven's sake, they could have taken a breath and gone for the surface.

Are we sure the door could be sealed from the outside? Or, maybe Charlie didn't know it could be sealed from outside. Regardless, it was quite a noble death.

No, just a badly written one.
100%
That was just pointless. POINTLESS. :angry: They were even close enough to swim down from the top - for heaven's sake, they could have taken a breath and gone for the surface.

Yep. I agree with your anger. Bad, bad writing.

That was just pointless. POINTLESS. :angry: They were even close enough to swim down from the top - for heaven's sake, they could have taken a breath and gone for the surface.

Writers just wanted to write off Charlie, that's all.:mad:

I still think Charlie has a chance (Locke looked pretty dead after getting shot to us too right?) Here's my theory:
Mikhail got to the hatch using an air tank. Desmond uses the air tank to go around and pull Charlie through the porthole (why Charlie didn't do this himself after the water finished going through and just swim up, I'll never know. It was just put in his mind HE MUST DO THIS because of Desmond's vision). But c'mon Des, everyone is 'manning' up. Go save Charlie boy!!!

I still think Charlie has a chance (Locke looked pretty dead after getting shot to us too right?) Here's my theory:
Mikhail got to the hatch using an air tank. Desmond uses the air tank to go around and pull Charlie through the porthole (why Charlie didn't do this himself after the water finished going through and just swim up, I'll never know. It was just put in his mind HE MUST DO THIS because of Desmond's vision). But c'mon Des, everyone is 'manning' up. Go save Charlie boy!!!


He is dead. Because Desmond, what, saw that he is going to. What a plot!!!!:mad:

Charlie's was comfortable sacrificing himself knowing that Claire and Aaron would get rescued. Even though he found out that that wasn't Penny's boat, I'm sure he still thought it was rescuse, and since Desmond said Claire and Aaron got on an helicopte rand flew off, all the more reason to do this. Plus, he had to think very fast so he did what he thought was best.

Charlie's dead. He won't get rescued. Live with it.

After a 2nd viewing, I still think Charlie had time to get out easily & would have were it not crucial to the drama of the show. I knew Charlie had to die based on an interview & the flow of the plot, and hoped for something great....although since it seemed a bit sketchy, i felt kind cheated. I guess I wanted to see Desmond clearly be in danger if Charlie did not make the sacrifice. That's what makes it noble.

I can haflway understand the people saying that he thought he had to die for help to come, but he'd already made contact with the outside world & had important info to pass along (passing it along as he did was an afterthought when he'd already locked himself in). Seems that since he just found out Naomi is not who she says, he'd no longer believe she was the way they'd be getting rescued.


In short, I wanted it to be cut & dry...and noble. Since it wasn't, I feel like they killed off a great character & didnt get the dramatic payout they should have.

Charlie wanted to die because he believed in Desmond's vision, and him dying was the way to save Claire and Aaron.

No, he didn't have to die, but he chose to.

I bawled like a little girl. I still feel sick. I am mortified.

me too....mortified by the fact that Charlie is actually gone. :sob:litterally....i'm still crying.

Me, too.
I also think he didn't have to die. The water wasn't flowing in quick enough. Yes, yes, Desmond and Penny...whatever. Charlie could have gotten out of the door and closed it behind him. They could have jumped back into the water and gotten out.

I can't believe this. I'm so upset.


Plot-What-Plot comes to mind. He had very much a chance to get out, and suddenly he seals himself from inside. I guess Dominic wanted a salary rise...


I'm hoping that there's some freaky timewarp thing going on and that we'll get to see Charlie again. I'm probably just in denial, but that's ok.

Join the club... Mine is; "I am in denial that LOST jumped the shark"


Ok, just throwing this out there. But I think the writers left us enough lee-way with the port-hole allowing Charlie to swim out that I think he may show up alive at some point in the future. The water had filled enough of the chamber to equalize the pressure so that if Charlie were as good a swimmer as he said he was (or even if he wasn't and just wanted to survive) he could have swum out of that blown window. He was still moving slightly the last we saw him. I think if they had wanted to show us that he was truly dead, they would have shown it much more blatantly. This is Lost after all.

Is anything left arguable as to Charlie's being dead or alive? Lostpedia says he is deceased, majority says he is dead and that's what is expected. I don't know, can you be in denial, because I am .

I agree that they could have made Charlie come out alive and it would have made a lot more sense. If they would have written in some failsafe where the door automatically locks itself when the code is put in, like the auto door slam in the Swan, the whole scene would have been a lot stronger.

Charlie would have been locked in, he still would have been the only one who recieved Penny's message, Mikail still would have blown up the window, and Charlie's message to Des would have seemed a lot more noble being that he got the message out despite being locked in against his will.

That one thing would have changed the whole feeling of his death. Oh well. Sorry if someone else mentioned this already, I didn't slog through the five pages.

Why do people keep mentioning the window? With the depth, the water would be coming in at a huge force, and Charlie would not be able to go through it.


Indeed. All he had to do was close the door. Silly TV, really.

It's an American thing that when you think you're doing drama, you kill people. It never works.

No, but it's a silly bandwagon anti-American thing to blame everything America does.

I thought Charlie's death was pointless too, and I don't know anything about physics. But there was no apparent reason why he couln't get out of the control room and close the hatch from the outside, instead of from the inside. And they had scuba gear, so they could have made it out.

I hated to see Charlie die, because he was one of my favorite characters (and really the reason I started watching Lost). But it he had to die, there should have been a more plausible reason for it.

Charlie's death was definitely the weak moment of the episode.

I was so steamed about the way Charlie died that I couldn't even feel sad about it. It was just plain stupid. All he had to do was leave the room and close the door behind him. And even if Desmond forced his way in, I think they would have had plenty of time to get on some tanks and get out of there long before the whole place flooded. So unfortunately, I didn't see Charlie's death as heroic at all, just pointless.
100%
I agree that they could have made Charlie come out alive and it would have made a lot more sense. If they would have written in some failsafe where the door automatically locks itself when the code is put in, like the auto door slam in the Swan, the whole scene would have been a lot stronger.

Charlie would have been locked in, he still would have been the only one who recieved Penny's message, Mikail still would have blown up the window, and Charlie's message to Des would have seemed a lot more noble being that he got the message out despite being locked in against his will.

That one thing would have changed the whole feeling of his death. Oh well. Sorry if someone else mentioned this already, I didn't slog through the five pages.

That's what I was expecting too -- that if he was going to die after deactivating the jamming signal, then it would be because of some automatic lockdown that occurred. But the way they killed him off... bleh.

I bawled like a little girl. I still feel sick. I am mortified.


Not gonna lie. Was kinda a tearjerker. And by kinda, I mean massive.
100%
yeah i didn't get why he would drown himself but i agree with Diesels... Desmond wouldn't have left that monitor... he was hellbent on seeing Penny and wouldn't have been in his right mind... Charlie died a Hero... the irony of Charlie writing FATE on his finger bandages in Season 1, eh?


GOOD CALL WITH THE "FATE". DIDN'T THINK ABOUT THAT. KUDOS. MAKES TOTAL SENSE. (MIND BLOWN RIGHT NOW)

Charlie couldn't have left the station even if he wanted to. Had he not shut the door, the gaping hole in the station's wall would have depressurized the entire station. The depressurization would have caused the water in the sub area to rise as well, flooding the main area and would have likely killed Desmond. And even if they tried to leave despite the rising floodwater, the pressure would have sucked them back into the station.

Besides, he had to die in order for Desmond's vision of Claire getting into the helicopter (which he assumes is a rescue crew) to come true.

Charlie couldn't have left the station even if he wanted to. Had he not shut the door, the gaping hole in the station's wall would have depressurized the entire station. The depressurization would have caused the water in the sub area to rise as well, flooding the main area and would have likely killed Desmond. And even if they tried to leave despite the rising floodwater, the pressure would have sucked them back into the station.

Besides, he had to die in order for Desmond's vision of Claire getting into the helicopter (which he assumes is a rescue crew) to come true.

NAMASTE!

First time poster, long time reader!
As you can imagine by my Nickname, i was devastated by Charlies death in tonight's (nevertheless awesome) season wrap-up. I thought it was stupid to close the door, but you explanation finally convinced me, that it was impossible to escape alive.
Though he could have tried to escape via the hole that Mikhail blew, but then Desmonds vision wouldn't be fullfilled and Claire and Aaron wouldn't be rescued.

Summing it up, it stick with Nadya, who said:" You are a hero [Charlie], and don't listen to people who tell you otherwise."
So stop moaning over logical issues and remember Charlie for what he was... a hero!:cry:

NAMASTE!

First time poster, long time reader!
As you can imagine by my Nickname, i was devastated by Charlies death in tonight's (nevertheless awesome) season wrap-up. I thought it was stupid to close the door, but you explanation finally convinced me, that it was impossible to escape alive.
Though he could have tried to escape via the hole that Mikhail blew, but then Desmonds vision wouldn't be fullfilled and Claire and Aaron wouldn't be rescued.

Summing it up, it stick with Nadya, who said:" You are a hero [Charlie], and don't listen to people who tell you otherwise."
So stop moaning over logical issues and remember Charlie for what he was... a hero!:cry:


Stop moaning over LOGICAL issues? I know you didn't mean what you just said.

And I don't know about all that pressurization crap. Did charlie KNOW that? No. Did charlie even make an attempt to live? No. The man KILLED HIMSELF. What's noble about that? Why are we pretendnig like there was an angel of death residing over the situation, and in exchange for Claire and Aaron's safety, Charlie had to die. He had done the deed! He had finished his purpose! Let's say the station WAS flooded, and charlie was going on a suicide mission in which he would run out of breath before he could get back up from pushing the buttons. That's noble. Let's say turning off the light makes the station explode. That would have been noble. Why he couldn't get out, close the door, and make an attempt to get out is beyond me. Did they not have the scuba gear basically ready? Did they not have an open exit? Did they not have a rope in which to drag themselves up through the water?

Did they not see the man who had a SPEAR THROWN INTO HIS CHEST escape from them, swim out and around the station, SMILE, then blow up a grenade?

Charlie's was comfortable sacrificing himself knowing that Claire and Aaron would get rescued. Even though he found out that that wasn't Penny's boat, I'm sure he still thought it was rescuse, and since Desmond said Claire and Aaron got on an helicopte rand flew off, all the more reason to do this. Plus, he had to think very fast so he did what he thought was best.

Charlie's dead. He won't get rescued. Live with it.


Sorry, didn't realize this was Aren's opinion only board. I thought the board was open to other people's theories and opinions but I guess I was wrong. Would be a first for anyone posting a theory on Lost huh?

Why do people keep mentioning the window? With the depth, the water would be coming in at a huge force, and Charlie would not be able to go through it.

He would get out the same way you do if your car goes under water. You wait for the water to fill up and then swim through.

I feel like alot of people here about Charlie's death. It really made no sense. In "White Rabbit" from season 1, it was CHARLIE who ran to Jack saying someone was in the water. He didn't go in the water because he said 'I DON'T SWIM...I DON'T SWIM'. Charlie would have NEVER been in the Looking Glass if Desmond didn't say anything. In order for Jack to accept Charlie going, he lies saying he could hold his breath for 4 minutes. 'Is that true'? 'Does it matter'? I find it odd that the only Lostie to specifically mention he doesn't swim volunteers to go...because Desmond told him of the vision. Fast-Foward to Mikhail with the grenade. There were so many ways for Charlie to safely get out, yet he doesn't. Why? Because Desmond told him 'he has to drown'??!! Even Desmond was questioning himself on the boat before Charlie knocked him out. Now granted, Charlie's actions were heroic no matter what the circumstances were. He was prepared to give up his life for the 2 people he loved the most in the world, Aaron & Claire. But it seemed senseless. It seemed...too convenient. And THAT makes no sense to me. Nothing on this show so far has been done out of convenience. (See my previous post for my theory). If Charlie was to truely die for whatever reason, I could accept it (hate it, but accept it)...but it would have to make sense.

I love that all the Charlie supporters suddenly think they are physicists.

I will gladly admit that I have no idea what a roomful of water would do in terms of creating a current, or how much pressure the door could have taken, etc. I don't sit there and argue about the "he could have done" this or that. I loved Charlie but he died in the best way any character has ever died on the show. He died as nothing less than a hero, and he proved it not once, but three times by also resisting torture and getting that last messge to Desmond.

Can't that satisfy people? Would you really want to see another season of Charlie sitting around on the beach being useless? The character went out gracefully, nobly, memorably. He was given treatment no other character on the show has been afforded-- almost two entire episodes showcasing his heroism. It was beautiful and I for one think that every line of the script was clearly written with a misty eye and a profound respect for the character whom Dominic brought to life.

Clearly, more respect than he's getting from fans who would be happy to see him as a wallflower for the next three seasons just so he could "be there." I understand your sadness. But the writers bent over backwards to give Charlie a proper send-off, and I think that should be appreciated and respected.

I for one thought it was heroic. If Charlie had to die. Then that was the way to go. Sacrificing himself for others. Heroism pure and simple.

The way in which he crossed himself too had me welling up.

i think everyone accepts the fact that Charlie did what he thought he had to do for the people he loved. He was a noble man. He was a courageous man. He had finally found true purpose in life. It was a beautiful story arc for him.

This does not change the fact that his death was both ridiculous(does no one realize Eyepatch had a spear thrown into his chest?) and absolutely avoidable. The writers just wanted to play dramatic music over Charlie sitting in water cause it would look cool and it would be poetic since he once proclaimed that he does not swim.

It's ok to call Lost stupid sometimes....it won't send you to Hell....

Yep patch had a spear launched into his chest. But then a few weeks ago he had a sonic fence make blood come out of his ears too. Wounds can be healed by the islands energies. But drowning is completely different in nature.

I agree that patch survived a sonic fence...but one, he said the reason he didn't die was because the forcefield wasn't up all the way. And secondly, he did not immediately get up and do a strenous activity, as in quietly escaping from a room in which another man resided, swim out and around a station, SMILE at someone, then let off a grenade. I don't think the island makes you wolverine or immortal...but I get where you're coming from.

I can't believe no one has brought up the ridiculous nature of Mikhail murdering him yet.

So...he's shot and bleeding to death but he still manages to think it would be a great idea to swim outside the looking glass (without his scuba gear no less), find the outside of the room Charlie was in, give him the evil eye, and then use a grenade (Cause who know when you'll need a waterproof grenade when you're out adventuring).... absolutely terrible writing.

The rest of the looking glass scenes were done so well that I wish the writers could have thought of a more plausible series of events.

And why didn't Desmond or Charlie check to see if 'Nine Lives' Mikhail was actually dead?

the guy seams so resilient I wouldn't be surprised if the writers have only being propelled to safety at the shoreline from the grenade blast (j/k)

that said, unless the writers of the show were sick of Charlie as an actor, I still see him making appearances in the show. Death hasn't stopped many other charecters from making return appearances.

Stop moaning over LOGICAL issues? I know you didn't mean what you just said.

And I don't know about all that pressurization crap. Did charlie KNOW that? No. Did charlie even make an attempt to live? No. The man KILLED HIMSELF. What's noble about that? Why are we pretendnig like there was an angel of death residing over the situation, and in exchange for Claire and Aaron's safety, Charlie had to die. He had done the deed! He had finished his purpose! Let's say the station WAS flooded, and charlie was going on a suicide mission in which he would run out of breath before he could get back up from pushing the buttons. That's noble. Let's say turning off the light makes the station explode. That would have been noble. Why he couldn't get out, close the door, and make an attempt to get out is beyond me. Did they not have the scuba gear basically ready? Did they not have an open exit? Did they not have a rope in which to drag themselves up through the water?

Did they not see the man who had a SPEAR THROWN INTO HIS CHEST escape from them, swim out and around the station, SMILE, then blow up a grenade?

There isn't a dead which is noble. Dead is dead. There is no guarantee that Desmond's visions of Charlie dying to save Claire is the truth, Desmond can be lying and luring Charlie to his death just by making him believe that he will die and that's what it should be. He committed suicide and Desmond is responsible for that. I read that Claire's dark side will surface, and I think that's because she will get the drift about Desmond and his visions to lure Charlie to death.

There isn't a dead which is noble. Dead is dead. There is no guarantee that Desmond's visions of Charlie dying to save Claire is the truth, Desmond can be lying and luring Charlie to his death just by making him believe that he will die and that's what it should be. He committed suicide and Desmond is responsible for that. I read that Claire's dark side will surface, and I think that's because she will get the drift about Desmond and his visions to lure Charlie to death.


What are you saying? There's isn't a dead which is noble? Do you know what nobility means? A man sacrifices himself selflessly...that's noble. Men or women who give their lives for country, family, or anything else denotes nobility. I'm so confused by your statement...

What sense does it make to question the validity of Desmond's visions, when EVERY OTHER VISION has come to fruition only to be halted by Desmond? Suddenly we shouldn't trust Desmond? He saw the Looking Glass before they even knew what it was...I agree Charlie committed suicide but it is not Desmond's fault. I agree Claire may be pissed but that's not Desmond's fault. As some people have been trying to outline...if Charlie was trying to stay alive instead of crossing himself and floating poetically in water pretending he's locked in even tho there was an exit right behind him....he would probably be alive.

I for one thought it was heroic. If Charlie had to die. Then that was the way to go. Sacrificing himself for others. Heroism pure and simple.

The way in which he crossed himself too had me welling up.

Agreed....Charlie understood that if he sacrificed himself, then Claire & Aaron make it off the island alive.

The ultimate sacrifice...and props to Dom for some very powerful and moving scenes in the finale.

I dunno.

I've read a lot of angry replies, attacking the 'logic' behind Charlie's death... but to me, and a few other people here, it seems really simple:

Charlie believed he had to die.

A good portion of this season was spent cementing the validity of Desmond's visions. That he can see what is going to happen, and, if he follows them exactly, they are accurate. When the result of these visions are bad, Desmond can alter them and make them better. When the results of these visions are good, the slightest misstep or variation from the path can change the results. This is what we, the viewers, and Charlie have been lead to believe.

Charlie knocked Desmond out to prevent Desmond from going into the hatch, because in this vision, to save the woman and the child he loves, he has to die. And if anything is altered, maybe that won't happen.

He feels happy when he surfaces in the moonpool because maybe Desmond's flashes have been completely wrong this time. If the flashes aren't true, then he doesn't have die. But as soon as he sees the blinking yellow light, it's back down to business. Desmond's flash wasn't wrong. It just missed the middle part. Desmond said Charlie would dive in, deactivate the jammer, and then drown. Because Juliet said the station was flooded, they both just assumed that he would swim into a flooded station, hit a button, and drown before he got out. And Claire would be safe.

As soon as he saw the light, Charlie accepted that Desmond was correct, and that he would drown. When he tells Desmond that the chick is gonna give him the code because he's the one that shuts the equipment down, he has accepted he is going to drown. He doesn't know how yet, but he knows it will happen. He tells Desmond he will get the code because, in Desmond's vision, he deactivates the equipment. In fact, the entire REASON that Charlie is the one that has to go down there, is because the code is a damned Beach Boys song. He's probably the only one on the island who could have gotten that.

And everything falls into place. Just as Charlie knocked out Desmond to prevent him from diving into the station, he again locks Desmond out of the room. In Desmond's vision, Des didn't die. Therefore, Charlie needs to keep Desmond from harm. When Desmond surfaces, and Charlie tells him to hide; again, keeping Desmond from harm.

He believes he needs to drown. As much as he wants to live, he doesn't want his life to screw up Claire and everyone else getting rescued. He believes that altering the events Desmond has seen will do this.

In the end, it's not a question of logistics, it's a question of psychology: If you believed you had to die to save the person you love, would you die, even if you could save yourself? Charlie made the choice to die, to drown, to fulfill Desmond's vision. It isn't about closing the door from the outside, or swimming out of a bloody window. It's about what Desmond saw, and making that accurate.

God, I can't believe I wrote all that. I never really liked Charlie, but the last two episodes completely redeemed his character in my eyes. Enough that I wrote a goddamn essay defending him, apparently....

What are you saying? There's isn't a dead which is noble? Do you know what nobility means? A man sacrifices himself selflessly...that's noble. Men or women who give their lives for country, family, or anything else denotes nobility. I'm so confused by your statement...

What sense does it make to question the validity of Desmond's visions, when EVERY OTHER VISION has come to fruition only to be halted by Desmond? Suddenly we shouldn't trust Desmond? He saw the Looking Glass before they even knew what it was...I agree Charlie committed suicide but it is not Desmond's fault. I agree Claire may be pissed but that's not Desmond's fault. As some people have been trying to outline...if Charlie was trying to stay alive instead of crossing himself and floating poetically in water pretending he's locked in even tho there was an exit right behind him....he would probably be alive.

Please... Why should Charlie sacrifice himself, why didn't Desmond sacrifice anything? Penny, for example? The possibility of him seeing her again? What redemption are you talking about? You think an ex-drug addict should get killed because he has to redeem himself? What nobility had it in itself? He committed suicide. If he wanted to protect Claire and Aaron, he should have tried to stay alive, that's the nobility, staying alive, sticking together, staying with your family. That's nobility.

Everyone is so focused on how he died, rather than why. Yes, there are plot holes and maybe he could have swam out, but this is what his character needed to do.

What else was he going to do on the show - sit and cuddle with Claire and play daddy? That might be heaven for the shippers but for the rest of the viewers it means a one-dimensional character. Charlie overcame his drug problem and won Claire's heart. We've seen his dark side and his fun side. We've seen him fight, cry, laugh and be a hero. How would the writers create drama for him if he had lived - by making him break up with Claire, or saving her & Aaron every time they're in trouble, or have him discover drugs again? He has already been a hero, when he killed Ethan and when he saved Aaron. If he had survived and came back to a hero's welcome - well, it's been done before. Claire doesn't have much to contribute, and through Charlie's death her character will grow and change.

There was nowhere else his character could go. If he hadn't been killed off, Charlie would have done nothing and contributed nothing to the overall story. His story has been told - we know everything we need to know about him. There is nothing more we could learn about him. What would the writers do if he lived - come up with yet more backstory about his band and brother? We have seen every aspect of his character, and he was fully developed. I would rather he was sacrificed to the island than watch him become useless and repetitive.

Please... Why should Charlie sacrifice himself, why didn't Desmond sacrifice anything? Penny, for example? The possibility of him seeing her again? What redemption are you talking about? You think an ex-drug addict should get killed because he has to redeem himself? What nobility had it in itself? He committed suicide. If he wanted to protect Claire and Aaron, he should have tried to stay alive, that's the nobility, staying alive, sticking together, staying with your family. That's nobility.

What do you want me to do, defend the man with the visions? I'm following the logic and mythology created by the show itself. The man has visions that come true. In his vision, he DOESN'T DIE. Do you want Des to sacrifice something to show that he appreciates having that power? How many times did he save Charlie's life even tho he was convinced he was going to die? Did he not intend to let Charlie stay in the boat before Charlie wacked him with an oar?

I think you're confused about my stance. I agree Charlie essentially committed suicide, I disagree it was Desmonds fault, because Charlie coulda walked the hell out. The nobility is the fact that Charlie thought he had to sacrifice his life to save the woman and child he loved. He thought his death coincided with their rescue. He rather they'd be saved without him, then stuck on the island with him. That was his intention. He shouldn't have kept this intention when he realized he coulda waltzed out of the room, but that's besides the point.

How is a man willing to die for his family NOT noble?

I just kept thinking to myself, why doesn't he just open the door and get out fast with desmond. The whole place couldn't have flooded that quickly, they would have had time. It all just sucks. Charlie is dead and I'm mad.

I just kept thinking to myself, why doesn't he just open the door and get out fast with desmond. The whole place couldn't have flooded that quickly, they would have had time. It all just sucks. Charlie is dead and I'm mad.

I saw it as necessary in that situation. That door locked from the inside, and by locking himself in it, he was able to keep the water inside that one room. I mean, a huge torrent of water rushing inside that room is going to make it pretty hard to stay standing. It's wipe you off your feet, and take all the scuba gear with it. So, even if he didn't lock himself inside and tried to bar the door (which would not have worked, the force of water would be too much) the two of them probably wouldn't have gotten out.

And then, we'd have two deaths. Not one. :frown:

Everyone is so focused on how he died, rather than why. Yes, there are plot holes and maybe he could have swam out, but this is what his character needed to do.

What else was he going to do on the show - sit and cuddle with Claire and play daddy? That might be heaven for the shippers but for the rest of the viewers it means a one-dimensional character. Charlie overcame his drug problem and won Claire's heart. We've seen his dark side and his fun side. We've seen him fight, cry, laugh and be a hero. How would the writers create drama for him if he had lived - by making him break up with Claire, or saving her & Aaron every time they're in trouble, or have him discover drugs again? He has already been a hero, when he killed Ethan and when he saved Aaron. If he had survived and came back to a hero's welcome - well, it's been done before. Claire doesn't have much to contribute, and through Charlie's death her character will grow and change.

There was nowhere else his character could go. If he hadn't been killed off, Charlie would have done nothing and contributed nothing to the overall story. His story has been told - we know everything we need to know about him. There is nothing more we could learn about him. What would the writers do if he lived - come up with yet more backstory about his band and brother? We have seen every aspect of his character, and he was fully developed. I would rather he was sacrificed to the island than watch him become useless and repetitive.

Nobody is saying they wanted Charlie to sit around and do nothing just to stroke our egos, or satisfy or wants, or not force us to say goodbye to a character we have a soft spot for. No one said he SHOULDN'T have died. We're saying, with the situation presented in the episode, there was no overbearing reason for Charlie to die. It wasn't like he didn't ALREADY unblock the transmission. It wasnt like he was puttin the codes in as the room flooded with water. It wasn't like he was locked in the room. The man had an exit, closed the door with him inside for no reason(what would have changed had he closed it from the other side? Was it that essential for him to lock the door so the water didn't get through? He wouldn't have had enough time to get some scuba gear on or anything?) then after the window blew threw and the water filled the room, he had ANOTHER EXIT: The damned hole.

While he may have not made it swimming through the hole and trying to get to the surface, thats not enough reason to lay down and drown yourself.

I disagree sjb I think that they would have had ample time to get out safely. I guess we will never really know now will we? so sad:crying:

What do you want me to do, defend the man with the visions? I'm following the logic and mythology created by the show itself. The man has visions that come true. In his vision, he DOESN'T DIE. Do you want Des to sacrifice something to show that he appreciates having that power? How many times did he save Charlie's life even tho he was convinced he was going to die? Did he not intend to let Charlie stay in the boat before Charlie wacked him with an oar?

I think you're confused about my stance. I agree Charlie essentially committed suicide, I disagree it was Desmonds fault, because Charlie coulda walked the hell out. The nobility is the fact that Charlie thought he had to sacrifice his life to save the woman and child he loved. He thought his death coincided with their rescue. He rather they'd be saved without him, then stuck on the island with him. That was his intention. He shouldn't have kept this intention when he realized he coulda waltzed out of the room, but that's besides the point.

How is a man willing to die for his family NOT noble?

A man willing to die for his family dies and leaves his family alone and in dark. What next? Did he save them? No, he didn't take the responsibility to live with them and face the difficulties the life throws to your face every now and then. Claire and Aaron are left alone now, without the support of Charlie. What happened? Charlie died. Claire is alive and is to face everything by herself and for her child. Alone. How is that a sacrifice on behalf of Charlie to save Claire?

I don't get Desmond's visions taken for granted also. As far as I know, Locke thinks the island chose him and speaks to him. What? Should we believe him and take everything he says and everything he does for granted and as an excuse of his knowing everything and is a chosen one to do anything?

A man willing to die for his family dies and leaves his family alone and in dark. What next? Did he save them? No, he didn't take the responsibility to live with them and face the difficulties the life throws to your face every now and then. Claire and Aaron are left alone now, without the support of Charlie. What happened? Charlie died. Claire is alive and is to face everything by herself and for her child. Alone. How is that a sacrifice on behalf of Charlie to save Claire?

I don't get Desmond's visions taken for granted also. As far as I know, Locke thinks the island chose him and speaks to him. What? Should we believe him and take everything he says and everything he does for granted and as an excuse of his knowing everything and is a chosen one to do anything?

***mod edit for rudeness***

You are pretty much accusing Charlie of killing himself so as he would not have to deal with Claire and the kid anymore. Really.

To understand why Charlie made the choice he did, you have to view the available information as his character would. You do not get the benefit of outsider information, of your entire life wrapped up in little forty-minute segments.

Charlie believes Desmond's visions because Desmond has proven them to be correct. Desmond has also convinced Charlie that if these paths that he has seen are altered, that everything he has seen can change, no matter how far along in the chain the alteration occurred.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT.

What does matter is that Desmond and Charlie believe this to be true, and have acted in accordance with these beliefs. It does not matter that Charlie deactivated the equipment. They both believe that if they deviate from the vision, the end result will change, that Claire and the kid won't get rescued.

And that's it. That's all there is to it.

A man willing to die for his family dies and leaves his family alone and in dark. What next? Did he save them? No, he didn't take the responsibility to live with them and face the difficulties the life throws to your face every now and then. Claire and Aaron are left alone now, without the support of Charlie. What happened? Charlie died. Claire is alive and is to face everything by herself and for her child. Alone. How is that a sacrifice on behalf of Charlie to save Claire?

I don't get Desmond's visions taken for granted also. As far as I know, Locke thinks the island chose him and speaks to him. What? Should we believe him and take everything he says and everything he does for granted and as an excuse of his knowing everything and is a chosen one to do anything?

Did you forget the circumstances? Des says Charlie must die because it will save his family. His family will not be saved unless Charlie goes down and unjams the transmission. Des saw Charlie dying numerous times. Charlie felt he had no choice.

And the difficulties life throws to your face every now and then? They are AIRPLANE SURVIVORS. In the middle of NOWHERE. STRANDED. With a monster in the trees, a group of people acting cryptic and stealing other people, skys that turn purple, hatches in the middle of jungles, and a man who has accurately foreseen his death and saved him. Why would he want his family to be around that? You're acting like they were just chillin, minding their own business on the island, enjoying the scenery, and Charlie decided to risk his life just so they could go home. There was IMINENT DANGER to the woman and child he loved. They wouldn't have been safer off the island? Even if it meant there was no Charlie? It wouldn't have been better for Aaron to grow up in normal society without a father than in an essentially invisible Island with one?

I love that all the Charlie supporters suddenly think they are physicists.I don't remember anyone claiming to be a physicist. Merely stating possibilities, which is what we all tend to do on these boards.

I think that many people are understandably upset over Charlie's death, and -like me- are wondering out loud if there wasn't a different alternative. I myself was yelling "jump in the moonpool and swim!" while the epi aired... But I'm not claiming to be a physicist, nor am I deluding myself to be one.

***MOD EDIT***

You are pretty much accusing Charlie of killing himself so as he would not have to deal with Claire and the kid anymore. Really.

To understand why Charlie made the choice he did, you have to view the available information as his character would. You do not get the benefit of outsider information, of your entire life wrapped up in little forty-minute segments.

Charlie believes Desmond's visions because Desmond has proven them to be correct. Desmond has also convinced Charlie that if these paths that he has seen are altered, that everything he has seen can change, no matter how far along in the chain the alteration occurred.

IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT.

What does matter is that Desmond and Charlie believe this to be true, and have acted in accordance with these beliefs. It does not matter that Charlie deactivated the equipment. They both believe that if they deviate from the vision, the end result will change, that Claire and the kid won't get rescued.

And that's it. That's all there is to it.


***MOD EDIT RUDENESS***

He sacrificed himself and died. So? I tell you so, he will never know what next, will not have to wonder, because, let's say together that you will understand HE IS DEAD. He doesn't have to worry, his responsibilities are over and done. He is peaceful. What about Claire? Do you know anything about mourning, at all? And incriminate oneself? Self-mortification? How will Claire feel after she finds out that he died to save her? Joy? Homage? Try remorse. Try self-accusation. Try turning to dark side.

I don't remember anyone claiming to be a physicist. Merely stating possibilities, which is what we all tend to do on these boards.

I think that many people are understandably upset over Charlie's death, and -like me- are wondering out loud if there wasn't a different alternative. I myself was yelling "jump in the moonpool and swim!" while the epi aired... But I'm not claiming to be a physicist.
couldn't have said it better myself. we are merely stating other possibilities. That's what this whole website is for, discussions and debates.:clap:

No, but I think you are. He sacrificed himself and died. So? I tell you so, he will never know what next, will not have to wonder, because, let's say together that you will understand HE IS DEAD. He doesn't have to worry, his responsibilities are over and done. He is peaceful. What about Claire? Do you know anything about mourning, at all? And incriminate oneself? Self-mortification? How will Claire feel after she finds out that he died to save her? Joy? Homage? Try remorse. Try self-accusation. Try turning to dark side.

So, the answer to my opening question on my previous post is a definitive 'yes', then?

I agree with ahurkonov and Crimsonking. Charlie and Des believed that Charlie had to die for endgame - Claire and Aaron's rescue. Yes I think he had plenty of time to get out but Charlie knew Desmond was trustworthy with his visions and if Charlie didn't die his family wouldn't get rescued. I think he did essentially kill himself but it was for the greater good.

Okay this thread is moving really fast and I haven't had time to scan every single post, so I hope this hasn't been said before, but lemme 'splain...

The way that a moon pool (that thing they swam up through) works is that the air pressure inside of the Looking Glass is greater than the pressure of the water to come up from underneath. If Charlie hadn't slammed that door shut when he did, then when the grenade had gone off the whole thing would have de-pressurized and *BLOOSH!* not only would water have shot in through the porthole, but all of that water just waiting to come up through the moon pool would have as well. Sort of like when you "shotgun" a can of beer or soda by poking a whole in the side to allow the liquid to flow freely. And it would have been FAST...Desmond would have had only a matter of seconds before there was no air left.

No, but I think you are. He sacrificed himself and died. So? I tell you so, he will never know what next, will not have to wonder, because, let's say together that you will understand HE IS DEAD. He doesn't have to worry, his responsibilities are over and done. He is peaceful. What about Claire? Do you know anything about mourning, at all? And incriminate oneself? Self-mortification? How will Claire feel after she finds out that he died to save her? Joy? Homage? Try remorse. Try self-accusation. Try turning to dark side.

I know a thing or two about losing someone dear and close. I know that people would lay down their lives for their loved ones. And that doing so is a noble act, an act of love and an act of great self-sacrifice. Charlie didn't do what he did out of a desire to not worry about responsibilities. To me it was because he had finally learnt the act of being responsible in his life.

For Charlie this was the one way he could finally protect and provide for his "family". By sacrificing himself he believed he had given Claire and Aaron a way off the island and a chance at a future together.

I loved Charlie as a character and I am sad to see his character go. But I think that the way he went out was awesome. Not in a gleeful way but because he went out like a hero doing something to save the ones he cared for.

And to the Charlie fans if its any consolation (which I imagine it isnt) at least your favourite character hasn't ended up as a washed up pill abusing alcoholic. :frown:

I don't remember anyone claiming to be a physicist. Merely stating possibilities, which is what we all tend to do on these boards.

I think that many people are understandably upset over Charlie's death, and -like me- are wondering out loud if there wasn't a different alternative. I myself was yelling "jump in the moonpool and swim!" while the epi aired... But I'm not claiming to be a physicist, nor am I deluding myself to be one.


I thought that stating the possibilities was the case also. Suddenly we are wanna be physicists. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: Everyone is cynical or in a mood to give consolation. :drowsy: :cool: :undecide:

He sacrificed himself and died. So? I tell you so, he will never know what next, will not have to wonder, because, let's say together that you will understand HE IS DEAD. He doesn't have to worry, his responsibilities are over and done. He is peaceful. What about Claire? Do you know anything about mourning, at all? And incriminate oneself? Self-mortification? How will Claire feel after she finds out that he died to save her? Joy? Homage? Try remorse. Try self-accusation. Try turning to dark side.

In my previous post, I stated that Charlie had come to the end of his story - there was nowhere for the character to go. If Charlie hadn't died, the same would be said of Claire. Yes, she will mourn and it will be painful, but it brings a new aspect to her personality and the character will grow and change because of it.

Yes, Charlie could have saved himself. But he chose not to, because he wanted to save the lives of the people he loved. That makes him a hero. He knew he could save himself, but he also knew that would change the future. He died for love.

How would everyone feel if Charlie had survived and in doing so changed the future and prevented Claire's rescue? What if in this alternate future, something horrible happened to Claire and Aaron? He sacrificed himself for the survival of someone else. Would you rather risk a horrible end for another character just to save Charlie?

Okay this thread is moving really fast and I haven't had time to scan every single post, so I hope this hasn't been said before, but lemme 'splain...

The way that a moon pool (that thing they swam up through) works is that the air pressure inside of the Looking Glass is greater than the pressure of the water to come up from underneath. If Charlie hadn't slammed that door shut when he did, then when the grenade had gone off the whole thing would have de-pressurized and *BLOOSH!* not only would water have shot in through the porthole, but all of that water just waiting to come up through the moon pool would have as well. Sort of like when you "shotgun" a can of beer or soda by poking a whole in the side to allow the liquid to flow freely. And it would have been FAST...Desmond would have had only a matter of seconds before there was no air left.

While this may be true, did Charlie KNOW THAT? Did he think to himself, let me close the door becaue the depressurized state will cause the station to flood? Do you not believe it would have been more rational for him to leave the room then close the door? You don't find it slightly convienient that the station featured a door that only locked from the inside?

The water was rushing in, but it wasn't coming in like a tidal wave. Charlie did have a few seconds in which he simply stood in the water. The door was quite heavy. Had he left the room and closed it from the outside, leaving it unlocked because it couldn't lock from the outside, the rushing water wouldn't have immediately burst through the door. Charlie and Des had time to simply dive into the moonpool, and swim up. Or pull themselves up with the rope....even tho it is easier to swim up than it is to swim down. They may have even had time to sprint to the scub gear, grab an oxygen mask to share and dove down. All more reasonable than Charlie committing suicide. It made sense to me that Charlie believed he would die in the act of saving his loved ones. Not kill himself after the fact...i don't get how him gettin back to her would change fate. He already unblocked the transmission.

While this may be true, did Charlie KNOW THAT? Did he think to himself, let me close the door becaue the depressurized state will cause the station to flood? Do you not believe it would have been more rational for him to leave the room then close the door? You don't find it slightly convienient that the station featured a door that only locked from the inside?

The water was rushing in, but it wasn't coming in like a tidal wave. Charlie did have a few seconds in which he simply stood in the water. The door was quite heavy. Had he left the room and closed it from the outside, leaving it unlocked because it couldn't lock from the outside, the rushing water wouldn't have immediately burst through the door. Charlie and Des had time to simply dive into the moonpool, and swim up. Or pull themselves up with the rope....even tho it is easier to swim up than it is to swim down. They may have even had time to sprint to the scub gear, grab an oxygen mask to share and dove down. All more reasonable than Charlie committing suicide. It made sense to me that Charlie believed he would die in the act of saving his loved ones. Not kill himself after the fact...i don't get how him gettin back to her would change fate. He already unblocked the transmission.
:shesaid: Well said. :cool: :cool: I completely agree that he could have survived. And am pissed that he died anyway.

While this may be true, did Charlie KNOW THAT? Did he think to himself, let me close the door becaue the depressurized state will cause the station to flood? Do you not believe it would have been more rational for him to leave the room then close the door? You don't find it slightly convienient that the station featured a door that only locked from the inside?

The water was rushing in, but it wasn't coming in like a tidal wave. Charlie did have a few seconds in which he simply stood in the water. The door was quite heavy. Had he left the room and closed it from the outside, leaving it unlocked because it couldn't lock from the outside, the rushing water wouldn't have immediately burst through the door. Charlie and Des had time to simply dive into the moonpool, and swim up. Or pull themselves up with the rope....even tho it is easier to swim up than it is to swim down. They may have even had time to sprint to the scub gear, grab an oxygen mask to share and dove down. All more reasonable than Charlie committing suicide. It made sense to me that Charlie believed he would die in the act of saving his loved ones. Not kill himself after the fact...i don't get how him gettin back to her would change fate. He already unblocked the transmission.



As for Charlie's motivations and knowledge of hydrodynamics, I can't say in the least...but I can say this much- if the door hadn't been sealed a column of water would have immediately shot out of that moon pool like a geyser, and the pressure of it alone would have been enough to kill both him and Desmond, to say nothing of the fact that swimming out of there would have been impossible until the Looking Glass was completely flooded and repressurized by the water.

And before anyone says it, I'm no physicist...but I have done a bit of diving in my day. ;-)

While this may be true, did Charlie KNOW THAT? Did he think to himself, let me close the door becaue the depressurized state will cause the station to flood? Do you not believe it would have been more rational for him to leave the room then close the door? You don't find it slightly convienient that the station featured a door that only locked from the inside?

The water was rushing in, but it wasn't coming in like a tidal wave. Charlie did have a few seconds in which he simply stood in the water. The door was quite heavy. Had he left the room and closed it from the outside, leaving it unlocked because it couldn't lock from the outside, the rushing water wouldn't have immediately burst through the door. Charlie and Des had time to simply dive into the moonpool, and swim up. Or pull themselves up with the rope....even tho it is easier to swim up than it is to swim down. They may have even had time to sprint to the scub gear, grab an oxygen mask to share and dove down. All more reasonable than Charlie committing suicide. It made sense to me that Charlie believed he would die in the act of saving his loved ones. Not kill himself after the fact...i don't get how him gettin back to her would change fate. He already unblocked the transmission.

HE HAD TO DIE. if he didn't, the future vision of claire and aaron getting rescued wouldn't have happened. like desmond said in catch-22, if the flashes don't happen exactly as he sees them, the picture changes. so since charlie loves his 'family' so much, that he sacrifices himself, so that they can live. why else would the episode before he dies(greatest hits) be focused on 5 very specific memories(instead of the traditional one story based flashbacks)? so that charlie lovers would be getting their last damn good charlie episode. you guys should consider yourself lucky. us, eko fans were shafted....

HE HAD TO DIE. if he didn't, the future vision of claire and aaron getting rescued wouldn't have happened. Agreed, and that is one of the most compelling arguments against the complaints about HOW he died.

Look at it this way. Charlie saw a case in which Desmond altered his visions by saving Charlie from Rousseau's arrow, and Desmond believed that as a result, it was Naomi and not Penelope that ended up on the Island.

Charlie had every reason to believe when he saw the water start to rush in, that if he did not complete the vision exactly as Desmond had foreseen, then Claire and Aaron would not have gotten on a helicopter, and all of their sacrifice would have been for nothing.

Sayid said in this episode, "I am willing to give my life if it will ensure rescue." Charlie felt the same way. To misunderstand that-- to question the nobility of his sacrifice and his resolution in what he knew he had to do-- is an insult to the very character that some people claim to cherish so much.

i think its a big cop out by the writers, there have been many deaths on this show i feel were justified and courageous, that one was not one of them, there was no reason he had to die like that.

i respect that he was saving everybody etc. but it seemed to easy for me.

i think its a big cop out by the writers, there have been many deaths on this show i feel were justified and courageous, that one was not one of them, there was no reason he had to die like that.

i respect that he was saving everybody etc. but it seemed to easy for me.


:shesaid:So do I. Cop out, indeed.

Charlie knew that if Desmond was able to get to that video transmission, he would have never left that room. Des would have stayed there way too late trying to get in touch with Penny. Charlie seemed to lock the door from the inside.. had Charlie went out the door and closed it, it wouldn't have been locked! Desmond would have gotten in and drowned.

In last week's episode, Desmond told Charlie that in order for Claire and Aaron to be rescued, Charlie "had to die." Charlie pushed the button and unjammed the signal, then the room flooded and he drowned, exactly how Desmond told him.
Charlie accepted his fate before he ever got in the boat in the first place.

This thing killed the entire episode for me. The guy clearly had enough time to get to the other side of the door and shut it.

The only reason I could come up with Charlie's dying, is that the hatch locked from the inside. But, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't there equipment there for them to put on and swim topside? They surely had enough time to do that. I guess with Charlie making peace with himself in last week's episode, TPTB really had no choice other than to kill him off. It only seemed fitting.

There seems to be a lot to baiting, back-and-forth going on here...debate the topic and not each other please...

That was one of the saddest deaths in Lost history. I cried plenty! Charlie was a hero.

Charlie had two options: 1. Close the door from the outside. If that for some reason was not possible (didn't have to actually lock it, just close it) then: 2. hold your breath, let the room fill with water, swim out the larger circular window and go to the surface.

Pretty weak death. Needed to be a better way to kill the Charlie boy...

Agreed, and that is one of the most compelling arguments against the complaints about HOW he died.

Look at it this way. Charlie saw a case in which Desmond altered his visions by saving Charlie from Rousseau's arrow, and Desmond believed that as a result, it was Naomi and not Penelope that ended up on the Island.

Charlie had every reason to believe when he saw the water start to rush in, that if he did not complete the vision exactly as Desmond had foreseen, then Claire and Aaron would not have gotten on a helicopter, and all of their sacrifice would have been for nothing.

Sayid said in this episode, "I am willing to give my life if it will ensure rescue." Charlie felt the same way. To misunderstand that-- to question the nobility of his sacrifice and his resolution in what he knew he had to do-- is an insult to the very character that some people claim to cherish so much.
I think this is a good enough reason for me, at this point. I wish he had died in a way that didn't necessitate such a debate, but I can understand how this makes sense.

I just wish he had at least yelled, "It has to happen this way!" or something to clarify, because last night, I was immediately like, "Wait... WTF?"

I think it was much better to die believing he was saving people he loved, and even the added bonus of returning the favor to Des who had saved his life several times, than to die by some freak accident with no meaning at all. Charlie accepted what he had to do and he did his best to preserve the vision Des told him. I liked Charlie very much but I see how it was his time, as a character, to go. RIP Charlie!

i wanted charlie dead all season , but last night i kinda like charlie with his "i dont care attitude"

I think he knew for sure that it was his destiny to be down there when the code to the keypad was a song that had been programmed by a musician. Desmond didn't "brainwash" Charlie as some have said (implying that Desmond is either a lunatic or a selfish jerk). The words "supposed to" keep coming up in the story, things that are supposed to happen. Locke tells Jack he isn't supposed to make the phone call. Jack tells Kate they aren't supposed to have left the island and that they are supposed to go back. Charlie was supposed to die. Desmond's flashes were right, which is why Desmond stopped having them once the course was set for what was about to happen. And Charlie accepted that and was at peace with it (which is what "Pace" means in Latin, I think). He was definitely the hero (along with Hurley, but that's for another thread) who saved them, and I can't help but think that next season Desmond will be making his way back to the beach with the knowledge that it's not Penny's boat.

I really can't believe this. The last 3 hours of this show has been telling you that Charlie must die so that Claire and Aaron will be rescued.
In Greatest Hits when Charlie smacked Des in the face with the paddle all the Charlie fans were praising him, "He's so brave!", "Charlie is swimming down to certain death to save the people he loves most. What a hero!!".
Now that he's actually gave his life for the people he loves, he didn't chicken out and save his own ***, you're all complaining!
Charlie sacrificing his life for Claire and Aaron has to be one of the biggest character moments since the show started, but you've got to pick it to pieces don't you...

Destiny is meant to be changed. Charlie is a fool to accept his drowning destiny without an attempt to survive. If you want to believe in destiny, our human destiny to survive. It is ingrained in our beings.

Charlie deserved what he got. No sympathy from me.

I found it interesting that the code just happened to be made by a musician...and a tune that charlie knew the notes well enough to that he got it on his first try.

With the possible time shifts and/or travel and what not, wouldn't it be interesting if another Charlie actually programmed the code, or something like that?

I found it interesting that the code just happened to be made by a musician...and a tune that charlie knew the notes well enough to that he got it on his first try.
I thought he would have at least pressed all the buttons to hear how they were arranged. Even if he knew the notes by heart, he didn't know how the buttons were set up.

I repeat: Destiny is meant to be changed. Charlie is a fool to accept his drowning 'destiny' without an attempt to survive. If you want to believe in destiny, our human destiny to survive. It is ingrained in our beings.

Charlie deserved what he got. No sympathy from me. :biggrin:

I believe I read somewhere that TPTB said that we'd know FOR SURE whether Charlie was dead or not after watching last night's episode. If that's the case (I'm too tired to look it up right now), then Charlie is D-E-A-D, no doubt about it. If they wanted us to believe he was alive, they would have shown him climbing out of the window or something.

IMHO his death was pointless. I realize that some characters NEED to die to make this show "believeable" (It was understandable to me that Shannon got accidently shot and that Boone got fatally injured while exploring the wrecked plane). After all, these people are stranded on a mysterious island in the middle of no where with people who are seemingly crazy and no doubt dangerous. Some people are going to die. But there were other choices for Charlie. He could have ran out, slammed the door, and pushed Desmond down to keep him out of the room. Or, he could have gone out the porthole/window and swam for the top and told Desmond at the surface what Penny said instead of taking the time to write it on his hand. Or he could have just tried to save himself in SOME way and worried about what Penny said later!

I thought the scene was almost too graphic to watch (in fact, I covered my eyes and had trouble staying in my chair). I guess Charlie didn't have time to think about it, but if Penny didn't send that boat, then Claire and Aaron's rescue might not really be at hand...

I think this death was not necessary plotwise. Of course, they could have something planned down the line that will make it more understandable. But right now, I am just disappointed with this decision (and I'm not even a huge Charlie fan, just a devoted LOST watcher).

I repeat: Destiny is meant to be changed. Charlie is a fool to accept his drowning 'destiny' without an attempt to survive. If you want to believe in destiny, our human destiny to survive. It is ingrained in our beings.

Charlie deserved what he got. No sympathy from me. :biggrin:
I'm just curious... where did you get the idea that destiny is meant to be changed? I only ask because I think when most people think about the concept of destiny, they think of it as an inevitable endpoint -- not something they have to find a way out of.

the melodrama in this thread is ridiculous. Are people not understanding the point?

Charlie had ALREADY DONE HIS DEED. Desmond insinuated that the act that would save Claire and Aaron would also bring about Charlie's death. As in what we originally thought the mission was: Charlie swimming into a FLOODED station, in which he had to turn of the light...it was thought by the Losties that anyone to try that would die in the process becuase they couldn't hold their breath that long...which lead Charlie to lie about how long he can hold his breath. Everyone thought Charlie would have to die just so he can turn off the switch...or turning off the switch would lead to his death. This idea is what made what he was trying to do heroic and noble.

However, Charlie KILLED HIMSELF. He turned off the switch, and then had time to GET AWAY but decided to stay and drown. For WHAT? Are we saying that Charlie had to trade his life for Claire and Aaron's rescue? Because that's not what was basically asserted. What he sent out to do was heroic...his actual death wasn't heroic. He didn't have to die. His whole mission was to get the helicopter to come...the man unjammed the signal. What, if he came back on the island, the helicopter wouldn't come anymore? He heard penny say that she doesn't own the boat, so he couldn't blame himself if the helicopters were really bad guys. If he got back to the island the the copter was full of bad people, would he say, "Oh no, this is the price we have to pay since I didn't die and fullfil my destiny!" Are you serious? The man did not die turning the switch! He already pushed the buttons THEN killed himself.

Charlie's a less than stellar swimmer, and never would have had the strength to fight through the torrent of water pouring through the window.Actually once the room filled up he could have easily swum through the window.


Add to that the fact that Charlie believed he HAD to die, no matter what happened, in order for Claire and Aaron to live, and his actions are justified.That is probably more likely though once he turned off the jamming that was the key to their rescue, right?

Somebody please let me know if I’m missing something big here… I’m completely confused because everyone keeps saying that Charlie “had to die” in order to save Claire and Aaron. “He knew that!” Well, I’m sorry, but I thought that Charlie needed to deactivate the jamming equipment and then the station would flood. I don’t recall Charlie having to die other than Desmond implying that he does because of the necessity of him completing the task of deactivating the jamming equipment. Desmond stating (paraphrased): “You need to do it this time, Charlie, you need to die so that they can make it off” is the equivalent of him saying that, “Hey, this needs to be done, Man! That’s how they’re going to get on the chopper.” It wasn’t him literally saying, “If you don’t die, this won’t happen” or else Charlie could have just drowned himself without pushing the button for all it was worth. It needs to be realized that Desmond’s flashes aren’t just flashes about Charlie dying. They’re flashes about a lot of things – we’ve seen them – but the only ones that are worth making their way into the story lines are those that have an impact on the story line and Desmond saving Charlie once again. Desmond’s statements (and actions) are akin to him saying that he knows at what point he can change history (again) so that Charlie doesn’t die, but that he can’t change it at that point. It’s up to Charlie to do what he needs to do and Desmond has given him the means of knowing what to be ready for.

On a different note… I have not rewatched the episode, but have we seen the room that Charlie was in get completely filled with water, or just that it was basically inevitable that he was going to die from it all? I still think that we may find out sometime next season (possibly a couple of episodes in or as the beginning hype pre-season) that “Someone that you thought was dead makes a surprise return!” – or something like that and then we see how he ended up surviving. I’ve never cared much for Charlie’s character just because I don’t feel that he has been as productive overall as the rest of the characters – Jack the leader, Locke the man who will satiate his curiosity to find out cool stuff about the island, Sayid the perfect interrogator, etc – but still think that the show will go this way.
100%
the melodrama in this thread is ridiculous. Are people not understanding the point?

Charlie had ALREADY DONE HIS DEED...

However, Charlie KILLED HIMSELF...

Nice quote; I see you beat me to the punch for what I made a few posts after yours. However, I think you're wrong in one key point of your argument. You keep making the point that they thought the station was flooded; hell, maybe Charlie even thought that it was. BUT... Desmond knew and stated outright that it wasn't flooded. The extent of his whole statement (paraphrased) was that Charlie "flips the switch and then the station floods." And Then The Station Floods. Charlie knew that was going to happen but had no reason to think that it couldn't happen as planned while still allowing for him to save himself somehow...

Darlton have stated explicitly that Charlie is dead. Dominic talks as though he hasn't had his contract renewed for the next season.

Part of me wants to hold onto the thought of an 11th Hour rescue...maybe Darlton realize they made a huge mistake and save Charlie in the 4th season. But honestly the future looks bleak.

I think Charlie accepted the fact that he was going to die. And he was saving Desmond. Desmond saw Penny on the screen. If Charlie had tried to shut the door from the outside, Desmond would have pushed Charlie out of the way and run into the room regardless of Mikhail.

This discussion has become completely silly. We are at the point now where we have become emotionally attached to some of the characters, but that doesn't negate the fact that characters die on LOST. If hadn't been Charlie it would have been another fan favorite (Considering all of the originals are favorites to some). Charlie had resigned himself to what he believed was his fate, and died a hero. Why keep debating it and nitpicking it to death when all you're doing is stripping it of any and all heroism and nobility. This is just a television show. It does not matter that there was a window, or that he could have been on the other side of the door, the character did what he believed he had to do. Accept it for what it is.

However, Charlie KILLED HIMSELF. He turned off the switch, and then had time to GET AWAY but decided to stay and drown. For WHAT? Are we saying that Charlie had to trade his life for Claire and Aaron's rescue? Because that's not what was basically asserted. What he sent out to do was heroic...his actual death wasn't heroic. He didn't have to die. His whole mission was to get the helicopter to come...the man unjammed the signal. What, if he came back on the island, the helicopter wouldn't come anymore? He heard penny say that she doesn't own the boat, so he couldn't blame himself if the helicopters were really bad guys. If he got back to the island the the copter was full of bad people, would he say, "Oh no, this is the price we have to pay since I didn't die and fullfil my destiny!" Are you serious? The man did not die turning the switch! He already pushed the buttons THEN killed himself.

You seem to be making a disconnect on Desmond's statements. Desmond never said flipping the switch would directly cause the helicopter to come to the island anymore than he said Charlie drowning would directly cause the helicopter to come to the island. BOTH things were implied equally as having some connection to the chain of events leading to the arrival of the helicopter, though Desmond never specifically said what that connection would be. In Des' mind he firmly believed that these were both pieces to the puzzle and that if both the switch flipping and Charlie's drowning did not occur the chopper would not rescue Claire and Aaron. Whether that is true matters not. Des believed it and he made Charlie believe it. He believed before he dove off the boat and even said as much to unconcious Des. That was Charlie's motivation for going on this suicide mission and that is why he allowed himself to die. Because he believed he had to. It doesn't matter if it was true or not, it only matters what he believed. And that imho is very heroic.

I still think that Charlie isn't necessarily dead. The writers can resuscitate him if they want. He hasn't been under water that long. I have hope for you Charlie!

I agree. Charlie did not have to die. It was simply to serve to the storyline as TPTB asserted in their post-finale interviews with Kristen and TV Guide.

DM himself stated that he'd been antsy the past two seasons as he'd been given so little to do. And he was justified. It's a shame that writers could not be found who would have cooked up a storyline for Charlie that went beyond being a recovering drug addict, nanny, and sometime comic relief. But they didn't.

What bothers me terribly is when TPTB assert that they have run out of story for a character. That speaks either poorly for their writing skills or is just outright not true.

There could have been plenty of story written for Charlie. And if they've run out of story for him as they profess, surely they've done the same for Jack, Kate, and Sawyer.

They killed Charlie because they wanted the fallout from the hatch explosion to have dramatic consequences for Desmond, hence Des's visions. To further Desmond's storyline they had his visions focus on Charlie dying. TPTB stated in post-finale interviews that they felt it would negate the value of Des's visions if they allowed Charlie to escape death.

I started watching the show because of Dominic Monaghan. There are several characters that I've grown fond of since then but I don't agree with the writers how knowing that a main character will be killed at any time serves the larger purpose of the story. I think it's cheap shock value. And it leaves me cold.

Hm what about this: Charlie's been -set up- by desmond before entering the station to just -act- like he's dying, just so his vision like it saw it happens becomes true. He only -saw- him die so maybe that's how it was supposed to happen - He wasn't dying in his vision, he's not dying in reality, I think this fits together. That also explains why Des asked him how long he could hold his breath. The set up flashback might be a part of a future episode then.

Might be far fetched (also considering the beating up scene) ...maybe I'm in denial too :)

I am sick of the shock value killings on LOST. Its a cheat way of writing. I just don't buy that killing Charlie was good for the show.

I agree. We've lost too many of our favorite characters while the writers try to teach us dumb ole audience members that the island is dangerous. Enough already we get it!

I think maybe the actor wanted out - its a big commitment for another 3 years.

But as far as the show goes, yes I dont see why he couldn't have lived - shut the door from the other side maybe?? Or is that wasn't possible, the whole hatch would have taken ages to fill up (wouldn't it? maybe the pressure on the water up via the moon pool would have sped it up), surely enough time to swim back up via the moon pool, with or without scuba gear. Come to that, I'm sure he could have swam out the window once the room was full.

I dont buy it that he felt destined to die because he trusted Des's vision - he'd done what he was supposed to do, he'd already turned off the yellow light.

I completely buy it.

I think maybe the actor wanted out - its a big commitment for another 3 years. I would have accepted his death better if it was because the actor wanted out. But unfortunately it's not the case. He wanted to stay. They fired him.

No, Charlie didn't have to die - he CHOSE to die. I read a great article - I believe in EW - where Damon and Carlton talked about the decision to kill off Charlie. This is the first major death where the character has chosen to die, unlike any other death we've seen (Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby). In the death scene I thought that Dom acted that scene SO WELL - because I could clearly see his thoughts on his face. At first he looks like he's getting ready to try and swim out and then a calmness comes over him, he comes to grips with what he believe needs to be done - he needs to die for the greater good, to get everyone rescued (namely Claire and Aaron). And he needed to convey to Desmond that it wasn't Penny's boat. A heroic act indeed.

I am definitely sadden by Charlie's death, but that's what happens in a show like this. This has put the character into much higher regards for me, whereas I had always been fairly indifferent to him. As the series draws to a close throughout the next 3 seasons I expect to see similar events unfold.

Firing and being written out are two different things - Damon and Carleton have done nothing but say how wonderful it was to work with Dom and that the decision was purely for the best direction of the show. And I believe them. Charlie's death does not undermine the character or what he has contributed to the series, but it is a pivotal event that will have other implications that we will see unfold. We all have to understand that we're going to lose more of the original beloved characters.

I was just about to make the very point that svolk just made--Charlie CHOSE to die. I think Charlie's death was brilliantly executed by the writers (no pun intended) to show the dichotomy of free-will versus fate. The irony is that Charlie chose to die because he thought it was his fate--because his death was the only way to ensure Claire and Aaron would be saved; but by chosing to stay in the room and die, he was in fact exercising free-will.

Charlie had already shut off the signal and made contact with the outside world, but according to Desmond "he had to die." So he chose to stay inside that room and drown. If that isn't heroism, I don't know what is. (And how heart-breaking was it to see Aaron crying as soon as Charlie died?)

And yes, Charlie is dead. Charlie's character was awesome in these last 2 episodes, and Dom did an excellent job making us love Charlie in the end, so that his death would be that much more more devastating to us. I cried more the second time I watched then I did the first time.

One last thought....please, please, please let Charlie's "Greatest hits" still be legible and make it to Claire!

The people who are saying that Charlie's death was pointless/avoidable are completely missing the point. There were several underlying reasons for his choice, but his primary motivation is one that few people are talking about: Charlie was first and foremost trying to save Desmond. Desmond saw/heard Penny on the monitor, and even shouted her name as he began rushing toward her. At the same time Charlie sees Mikhail with the grenade. Nothing would stop Desmond from speaking with Penny, even if it meant risking certain death, and Charlie knew it. He close the door (which it appears could only be sealed from the INSIDE) not so much to stop the water from entering the whole station but rather to prevent Desmond from entering and dying recklessly. That is why he sacrificed himself as he did.

I believe I read a post in here where someone suggested that Charlie could have quickly run out, knocked Desmond over, and barricaded the door from the outside. To that I say "What?" Aside from the question of how to seal the door (or at least press it shut) from the outside, who do you think is more "possessed" at this point: Charlie, a man who has already come to terms with his own death, in his attempt to exit the room or Desmond, a man who hasn't seen his love in years, to enter it? I maintain that Charlie couldn't have stopped Desmond, so Charlie reacted quickly and did the one thing that could assuredly save Desmond's life: Shut the door from the inside.

And don't lose sight of the fact that Charlie fully believes in Desmond's visions, that everything has to happen exactly as foreseen for the next part (Clarie and Aaron's rescue) to occur. So Charlie believed that he had to drown, and came to realize it after his initial concern for Desmond.

Right, Charlie couldn't close the door from the outside so if he hadn't shut himself in there he and Desmond would have both drowned but I still don't get why he didn't try to go out that hole, guess its just wishful thinking, I'll miss you Charlie....

Charlie could have come out to be with desmond!!!
And you know what is even more he-didn't-have-to-die sad about this whole thing? I think Desmond misinterpreted his own "flash", as Charlie called Desmond's visions, and he thought that Charlie had to die in order for everyone to be "rescued". But in fact, I think it is NOT a rescue copter Des saw Claire and Aaron board, but a copter piloted by people with a more ominous intent. When Des said he saw Claire and Aaron boarding a copter, it Charlie who immediately assumed "A rescue helicopter? We're going to be rescued?!" But even back during that scene, I thought: wait, how do you know it was taking off with Claire and Aaron in order to rescue them from the island? They could have been being kidnapped and taken God knows where, or unknowingly lured there by the promise of rescue. Both Des and Charlie assumed Charlie had to fulfill his part of the vision to ensure rescue. But really maybe the vision was more like a warning to Desmond of something he should try to stop.

Meanwhile, be that as it may, you're right: had Charlie not heroically shut the door to protect Desmond, they both would have had a good shot of swimming out of there. But Charlie had to make a split-second decision and I guess he thought maybe the water would flood in too ferociously to even give Desmond time to get out, or that Desmond wouldn't get out in time because he would be trying so hard to get to communicate to Penny, or whatever. But you are right, they could have both made it out, especially if Charlie, instead of shutting the door on Des (resulting in his own death), or not shutting it on Des (which might have meant they would both have had time to get out), had done the following: stepped to the other side of the door and THEN shut it, saving them both.

Thing is, Charlie thought it was his fate to drown, so maybe he was just trying to ensure that Desmond wouldn't also lose his life.

So sad, because I think Desmond's vision was something he was meant to try to prevent from happening, not ensure happening.

:sob:

I'm not so sure that the whole was even big enough to swim out of. Rewatching the scene, it looks like a tight squeeze at best to me.

But yeah, I'll miss Charlie too. Though I think his death was handled wonderfully.

P.S. to my previous post in this thread: Guys, regarding Charlie possibly swimming through the portal, I don't think he could have because the tremendous pressure from the incoming water would have been too great for one man to swim against. He had the weight of the entire ocean pushing to get in. He would have been no match for that.

But he could have chosen to get himself on the other side of the door before shutting it. I'm guessing, again, that he felt it was his fate to drown and that shutting the door on Desmond was the only way to ensure that Des wouldn't be single-minded enough about communicating with Penny to go in and possibly die in the process. STILL, I wish he would have gone to the other side himself, and simply told Des in words that it was "not Penny's boat", ...but again, maybe he felt both that he was fated to die so why fight it and also that he would have a better chance of keeping Desmond from entering the room if he stayed on the other side of the door. Charlie's last few hours of life were certainly extremely heroic. The tragedy is, I think Desmond and Charlie misinterpreted the meaning of Desmond's vision/flash, as I discussed in my previous post in this thread.

I'll miss Charlie!

"I'm fine. Charlie's fine, by the way."

"Guys, is this normal? This sort of day-into-night, end-of-the-world type weather?"

"Oh, you've got an inside joke, how nice for you both."

Just three Charlie lines that spring fondly to mind when I think of how much I'll miss this sweet character.

Lockefan, Charlie could have waited to the water filled up the room, than swam out the portal. There would have been no pressure rushing in then. He woulda ran outta breathe, but he still coulda escaped.

I'm still not convinced that Charlie could've run out and sealed the door from the outside. The locks were on the inside, and were they not in place the door would've been blown open by the rushing water, no? And Desmond might've attempted to rush in for Penny (as I suspect Charlie anticipated).