Thoughts, theories...screencaps??? Anybody who has seen the episode have any ideas?

We can safely assume (I think) that it was someone who was on the plane...I just don't know who. I don't think it was Sawyer, because I think that's who Kate was talking about at the end when she said "He'll be wondering where I am"

I am wondering if it was Locke...or is it even important? Maybe it was just a way to get the two back together to show us that is wasn't really a flashback?

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This was posted as post #250 in this thread:

Allow me to fill in the blanks. The complete text from the obituary is as follows:

"The body of John Lantham of New York was found shortly after 4 am in the 4300 block of Grand Avenue. Ted Worden, a doorman at the Tower Lofts complex, heard loud noises coming from the victim's loft. Concerned for tenants' safety, he entered the loft and found the body hanging from a beam in the living room. According to Jaime Ortiz, a police spokesman, the incident was deemed a suicide after medical tests. Latham (sic) is survived by one teenaged son. Memorial services will be held at the Hoffs-Drawlar Funeral Home tomorrow evening."

The obituary text was just dictated to me by a friend who worked on the L.A. portion of the reshoots, where TPTB filmed the E.R. and Oceanic Airliner scenes. I believe it to be 100% accurate, and I stand by my source.

Now that certainly raises a lot of new questions, as well as some new fuel for the fire for the next 3 seasons. Can't wait 'til Feb.! :biggrin:

screen caps we need screen caps!!!!

I think it was someone who got off the island with them. Someone that both Kate and Jack knew. I think once they got off the island, life wasn't to kind to them. something might have happen to all of them. I think either Ben or Locke was in the coffin, when Jack attended the funeral home. Since I can't see Ben ever leaving the island. I think it was likely Locke. Locke didn't have any family, and very few friends.

I think it was someone who got off the island with them. Someone that both Kate and Jack knew. I think once they got off the island, life wasn't to kind to them. something might have happen to all of them. I think either Ben or Locke was in the coffin, when Jack attended the funeral home. Since I can't see Ben ever leaving the island. I think it was likely Locke. Locke didn't have any family, and very few friends.


I don't think it would be Locke, he would of hid now that he is the spiritual connection to the island. I think it was probably Ben. He told the funeral home guy that he was neither friend nor family. I think Jack is so upset because Ben was finally telling the truth, and that something bad really happened on the island.

At first I was thinking that it was Claire, but the fact that there was no one at the funeral. Then I was thinking Sawyer, but Kate's comment made me think it wasn't. But he probably wouldn't have had anyone come to his funeral.

Hurley would go - so would Jin if it were Sawyer

I thought that there would be more if it wsa sawyer also...and since she said he would wonder where I am...I am assuming Kate meant sawyer....

It may be Ben...

Hurley would go - so would Jin if it were Sawyer

True, I hadn't really thought of other survivors, unless they didn't see it in the newspaper either. Maybe it is Juliette or one of the other Others.

I gotta think everyone on the island would have had someone at their funeral.....except for Ben.

here's a screencap of the newspaper from the airplane scene, but i can't make anything out of it.....

Fixed link to Enhanced Newspaper Article (http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg)

My money says it was a flash forward to the future.....Ben made many predictions that probally were true...did not have anymore followers and so no one went to his funeral,,,except Jack...Jack wants to go back to the island to make amends or correct the past?

The third time the newspaper showed, there was a slight clip of a name -- last name ended with "--ham" and "of New York." At least that's what I picked up.

ben was in that coffin...flash forward

The third time the newspaper showed, there was a slight clip of a name -- last name ended with "--ham" and "of New York." At least that's what I picked up.

New York, hmmmm ........ Bernard, Rose, Michael???

I was pretty convinced it HAD to be Ben before you printed the "ham" part. Unless his name really isn't Benjamin Linus. :undecide:

Ben's the only one who really fits though. He probably would not have had anyone come to his funeral. Everyone was so against him at the end because he had lied to so many people.

Yeah. On second thought, I'm wondering if it's Ben. The name in the newspaper wasn't Benjamin Linus (even though I couldn't make out what it was), but there's a good chance he could've used an alias if he got off the island. And, naturally, no one would know who it was...
100%
New York, hmmmm ........ Bernard, Rose, Michael???

I was pretty convinced it HAD to be Ben before you printed the "ham" part. Unless his name really isn't Benjamin Linus. :undecide:

Ben's the only one who really fits though. He probably would not have had anyone come to his funeral. Everyone was so against him at the end because he had lied to so many people.

I definitely hope someone gets a screenshot of that third appearance of the newspaper soon; I hope I'm not totally off guard. I was watching it in HD and paused it, but have no way of getting a screenshot onto the Web.

I thought that casket looked kinda short.. So.. Maybe Claire,Aaron,Walt, or Charlie is my bet...

I thought that casket looked kinda short.. So.. Maybe Claire,Aaron,Walt, or Charlie is my bet...It was definately a childs coffin.

I can't see Ben wanting to leave the island. I think he'd rather die there than go back to society. He does fit the bill of not having people go to his funeral because who else would know him off-island (besides the Losties) if he spent the majority of his life on-island? Plus if he used an alias, that reduces the chances even further that people would recognize him. But still, I'm thinking it's someone else. Maybe even a background Lostie.

I'm going with it being Sawyer, and I think Kate hooks up with Sayid! Whoo-hoo

I really don't think it was Ben. It just doesn't make sense from where I'm looking at it. Why would Jack think anyone would go if it was Ben. That said, obviously a lot changed in Jack's life and there's a *lot* we don't know. (We don't even know if this was pre-island we're on now or post-island that we're on now) So, perhaps they realized they were wrong and that's why Jack would have gone, and expected others to possibly go.

Still, a lot would have had to change for Jack to go to Ben's funeral or expect anyone else to.

So I still think it was one of the losties. Perhaps not even a prominent lostie- maybe it was just a person Jack knew was on the island with them and it became a catalyst for him to start thinking seriously about the island again.

At first I was thinking Juliet, but then, why wouldn't her sister at least be there? I thought this because it was this persons death that made Jack want to kill himself.

But thinking more about it, Ben makes a lot of sense. We know that in this future, Jack wishes he were back on the island and that he listened to Ben. So Ben dying would remind him of that -- that Ben was right -- and Ben was the last remaining person who shared his desire to go back. It would also explain why there was no one at the funeral -- Ben has no relatives or friends.

Well, whoever was in the coffin, it caused Jack to first leave a drunken 1/2 message to someone (Kate?) and then try to kill himself.

I think that it was Locke's funeral. Nobody would've come to it. He doesn't have family, does he? And I don't think that Jack is going to consider Locke a friend after all of this...

But remember everyone, ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. THIS IS LOST. Somebody on the island may betray Jack and the group, thus causing Jack to not refer to said person as a friend.

Well...I think it's safe to rule out Charlie being in the coffin.

I was also thinking that Sawyer would be the one in the coffin. It's logical for us to assume he's who Kate was talking about yet he wasn't mentioned by name so it is pure assumption. Maybe she's talking about her parole officer? He'll wonder where she is 'cause she didn't check in on time?

I think it's either Ben, Michael or Locke. As I posted on the linear, those three people would be who Jack would feel compelled to acknowledge their deaths but wouldn't classify as a friend and Kate wouldn't consider even acknowledging their death.

I really hope it's not Locke - I'm holding out hopes that he manages to not get "rescued" - he still has things to do on the island!

I don't think it would be Locke, he would of hid now that he is the spiritual connection to the island. I think it was probably Ben. He told the funeral home guy that he was neither friend nor family. I think Jack is so upset because Ben was finally telling the truth, and that something bad really happened on the island.

I was thinking Ben as well. For the same reasons you state.

It was definately a childs coffin.

The angle it was being shot from kind of distorted the view. It appeared to be a standard casket size. A "child" sized casket would be something customized (unless it was for an infant). Someone being viewed in a bad neighborhood, in a very *poor* looking room, with no one in attendance, likely didn't have a custom casket.

I don't think it's Sawyer since he's probably who Kate was talking about when she said that he would wonder where she was. Either that or she's with Hurley in the future. He's a hero now ya know!

Personally, I think its a draw between Locke and Ben,

Jack claimed he was neither family nor friend. Kate's reaction was equally as distant.

Where does everyone else weigh in?

I agree with pretty much everyone that it is either Locke or Ben in the coffin. If not those two then Naomi maybe?

Plus, I think that this past is changable. If things kep going the way they are and do not change, then this is the way things will turn out, but if something changes then the ending will not turn out this way.

Anyone have another screencap? I can't view the one posted earlier in this thread...

I thought it was either ben or juliet

It was a childs coffin.

A bit far fetched, but Juliet's sister's kid?

Here's a cap that I made:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1045/obitxg6.jpg

From what I can make out it says:
Man Found [probably dead in] Downtown Loft
The body of Je.... ntham of New York was... shortly after 4 a.m... in the... of Grand Avenue.
...man at the Tower.... loud noises... from a beam in the....

So I guess someone committed suicide, but did anyone have a last name ending in -ntham?

I think that the dead person was Sawyer, and Kate hooked up with someone else from the Island (Hurley?) once they got back.

It had to be someone that made Jack get addicted to drugs and want to kill himself...Juliet...

Before I can made an informed answer I need to confirm something: Was Jack *late* for the viewing and everyone who had come already left? OR was he the only one who came?

Unfortunately, I cannot remember which. The answer makes a HUGE difference because if Jack was the only one that came then it must have been someone that no one liked, but Jack felt responsible somehow.

Sawyer's on a slipperly slope. I think he's going to be instrumental in getting them off the island and betray whoever he has to.

Or a first name starting with J?

the neiborhood was poor and black, that should narrow it down. The person in the coffin is definately someone important. Maybe not important tonight, but in the next 3 seasons. I do not think it is Ben or Locke, they would never leave.

Kate is shacked up with Saywer. If it was someone else, she would not of said "he", like she could not tell Jack the name.

The flash forward is cool, have to watch it again. I saw the Answers bfore for the first time. They said we would know who the people were, who they are now, and who they become.

The forward flash is to today timeframe. Jack was using a KRZR phone Circa spring 2007

The funeral director told Jack that nobody had showed up.

I think it's Ben, but as somebody said, Ben probably wouldn't let himself be taken off the island alive.

Was Jack *late* for the viewing and everyone who had come already left? OR was he the only one who came?

Unfortunately, I cannot remember which.

Actually, its both. He was late, but the funeral home coordinator/director claimed no one had shown up anyway.

Can anyone get a screencap of the newspaper as it laid in the airplane seat? Jack noticed the headline from that position and I was curious is maybe more information could be somewhat legible on it...

Oh, andthanks for re-posting that obit!

Has anybody thought about JACOB? Perhaps he died when the island died.

So I guess someone committed suicide, but did anyone have a last name ending in -ntham?

If it's Sawyer using an alias, it'd be interesting if he ended up committing suicide, as his father did.

thanks for the cap.

4 am (the numbers strike again)

The funeral director said that nobody showed up for the viewing - which led me to believe that it was either Locke or Sawyer...but I dont believe that Locke will ever be taken alive from the island! And Kate would have had some kind of emotional reaction if it were Sawyer.
So........I think it's someone we haven't met yet.

from the screen cap, AND from my own freeze framing of HD i saw "body of Jo" or possibly "Ja" so that leaves it up to John Locke or James Ford. I'm banking on Locke b/c of the "child size" coffin. His legs were amputated once he realized he has lost use of them for good or something. he's the only "man" that could possibly have a reason to be put in a child sized coffin with the name of Jo or Ja. Not to mention to get the reactions from Kate and Jack that were given.

It's John Locke.

"Jeremy Bentham" is another philosopher who speculated on the social contract; he's the father of utilitarianism. I suspect that's a little joke.

Because the funeral parlor was in an African American neighborhood, with an African American funeral director, I think it's Michael or Walt, especialy as they are from New York. Michael would be more likely to commit suicide over his guilt, a guilt Jack may share if his decision caused deaths on the island. And since he was an artist, he might have a loft. On the other hand, we had Walt showing up via Smokey to encourage Locke and Sawyer referencing his being taken off the raft. So I could see him despairing upon learning what his father did and getting into bad company, perhaps being shot, if we aren't really supposed to read the newspaper. Jack would be more likely to regret his death.

All and all, I'm guessing Michael, though.

Cardie

Sawyer's real name is James! Maybe he adopts a different last name?

Could the funeral be for someone responsible for the plane crash or whatever happens when Naomi's rescue boat comes who we don't know yet?

I agree other option would be Michael or Walt.

here it is rotated.....still can't make anything out that hasn't already been said.

I agree that the coffin looked a small, but then again, Ben wasn't that tall (i don't think). If it was a smaller coffin, that should rule out Locke :shrug:

The suicide thing also sounds about right, and Ben being taken off the island could have driven him to something like that.

http://img340.imageshack.us/my.php?image=a041fullks3.jpg

ETA: after reading some things posted while i was in the middle of this one, i'm starting to think it wasn't Ben, lol.

<------gots no clue

It is probably a character that we haven't met yet--like someone from the rescue ship. Maybe it is one of the "bad" people that Ben was trying to warn Jack about.

Does anyone have a screencap of the obit when Jack first sees it, before he tears it out of the paper? I think we get a flat glimpse of it them - upside down.

Jacob?

Maybe it was redshirt Jerome.
Jerome (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Jerome.jpg)

1. It was a private funeral home which means someone paid for the funeral, it wasn't a body being released by the morgue into Potter's Field. Therefore someone paid for the funeral if only the corpse via their estate.
2. The funeral home appeared to be in an African American neighborhood. Churches in the US are still mostly segregated, but not all funeral homes. That is inconclusive and possibly a classic red herring.
3. Some people say the casket was short, but I didn't see that
4. No one showed up (yet)
5. Jack claims to be neither family nor friend
6. The obituary appears to be too small to read on any non-HD screencaps.

I personally feel that we were specifically not given enough information to decipher who it was, but I wanted a thread that detailed the evidence we were shown.

Here's a cap that I made:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1045/obitxg6.jpg

From what I can make out it says:
Man Found [probably dead in] Downtown Loft
The body of Je.... ntham of New York was... shortly after 4 a.m... in the... of Grand Avenue.
...man at the Tower.... loud noises... from a beam in the....

So I guess someone committed suicide, but did anyone have a last name ending in -ntham?

I was sure it was Michael until I saw the screencap of the obituary. Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet that will become important in season 4?

Has anybody thought about JACOB? Perhaps he died when the island died.

The name appears to begin with "Je".

I think that it will end up being a new character that we haven't met yet--possibly someone from the rescue ship.

I'm going to go with Locke, because he seems like he's turned, or is going to turn, I could see Jack feeling responsible for his death.
I really don't think it's Sawyer because at least Kate would have come. And I think at this point, most of them would come. He's still a "bad boy" but he's definitely earned some redemption in the others, even Jack and Sayid.

Personally, I think its a draw between Locke and Ben.

I'd have to agree...I'm leaning towards Locke, but looking at the context of this happening within the episode Ben is another possibility.

I don't think it's Sawyer since he's probably who Kate was talking about when she said that he would wonder where she was. Either that or she's with Hurley in the future. He's a hero now ya know!


Nah... Jack would definitely consider Hurley a friend. =)

More screencaps are up at darkufo (http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/)

What I can make out so far:

Body found in New York, ...Grand Avenue.. loud.... loft... beam...

The person in the coffin is definately someone important. Maybe not important tonight, but in the next 3 seasons.

The forward flash is to today timeframe. Jack was using a KRZR phone Circa spring 2007
1. I agree with that. We can't know for sure who it is right now. I think it might be too early.

2. I noticed that, too. I was like, "Those phones weren't even made 'back then.'"

Dark UFO almost always has the fastest and best caps:

http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

Just scroll down a bit.

All very valid points DW

Maybe we're not supposed to know who it was because we haven't even met this person yet.....one of the losties we'll meet next season......maybe even later than that?

It would be very much like TPTB to setup a totally new story arc that will drive us crazy with speculation.....which is completely impossible to decipher at this point.

Whoever said "Jeremy Bentham" may be right on. I wonder if it's Ben using a fake name?

1. It was a private funeral home which means someone paid for the funeral, it wasn't a body being released by the morgue into Potter's Field. Therefore someone paid for the funeral if only the corpse via their estate.

Private funeral homes handle Potter's Field burials all the time. They are usually paid for by the County. (sometimes the City or State, depending on circumstances) what says that someone paid for it is that it is the wrong kind of casket for a Potter's Field burial AND the fact that Jack did not show up at a funeral. The man there told him it was the viewing. A Potter's Field burial would not have a viewing. If people showed up at the cemetery for the burial, it is possible the director would open the casket for them to view the deceased, but there would not have been a formal viewing.

Also, there is a lot of good information in the Obituary thread.

Absolutely jwb. We have no idea how far in advance this flash goes. A lot of events can still go down on the island before Jack, Kate and whoever else leaves. So the funeral is quite possibly for a person we don't know yet.

FTR, I didn't think the casket was small either. Not that I see a lot of them. It just looked like a regular, if somewhat inexpensive and plain, casket to me.

I think it was either Michael or Locke in it.

I'm agreeing on it being Locke. Freeze-framing it I see "Man found...body of Jo (or a)." Locke fits in a couple of ways. Assuming that whoever Naomi worked for had plans of their own for the island, they probably removed everyone whether they wanted to go or not, in order to carry out their plans unhindered.

Locke, having left the island, would likely lose the ability to walk. This would make him depressed enough in my opinion to commit suicide. Thematically, Locke having his legs removed, either through amputation or other means, fits better than the only other possibility I see, which is James Ford.

Kate would react the way she did because the last thing Locke did was try to stop their rescue, and Locke was certainly not Jack's friend. Jack would get broken up about Locke's death because he now thinks he should not have left the island, just like Locke said. Locke having no family and being the man we saw in Walkabout (no friends/phone sex caller for companionship) would likely have no one come to his funeral.

Lastly, the "ntham" is likely the location name or building he was found at.

All signs point to Locke.

I'm thinking it's Ben. Neither family nor friend to Jack. Nobody showed up at the viewing, which if I'm not mistaken, was over when Jack got there. Ben had no family. None of the other Losties would have shown up, and presumably, none of the Others would have, either, after they learned of all of his deception and treachery.

Nah. It was Jacob.

Bentham's primary principle was that laws and governments should be calculated to do the greatest good for the greatest number, sometimes sacrificing lesser interests to that goal. That would sound like Ben, but other evidence still points toward Michael.

Cardie

My guess is Michael. I could see why no one would want to go to his funeral/viewing.

Honestly, at this point I see John Locke either fulling his destiny with the island or dying there. Not leaving. BUT maybe he did leave in a past loop? So there's no telling...

Edit: After pouring over the screen caps for several minutes, I came here to declare that Juliet was a possibility........ *let's it sink in* ....... I think I should go to bed now, whether it be impossible to sleep or not. XD

Another thing to ponder:

Why would this persons obituary be on the front page of a national newspaper? If someone had enough status to acheive that, why are they at some tiny funeral parlor in a rundown neighborhood with nobody in attendance?
Maybe this was just a goof on the producers part...

What book is on the table in the funeral parlor? I couldn't make it out, but may give an indication of who...

It was absolutely and clearly a child's coffin.

Honestly, at this point I see John Locke either fulling his destiny with the island or dying there. Not leaving. BUT maybe he did leave in a past loop? So there's no telling...



I don't think this future is set in stone, first. Desmond makes anything possible in regards to altering future events.

As to Locke leaving, again, I don't think he would leave if he had a choice. In this sequence of events, Locke is forcibly removed from the island by Naomi's benefactor's, and subsequently we find him dead because he cannot function off the island and does not want to.

Bentham's primary principle was that laws and governments should be calculated to do the greatest good for the greatest number, sometimes sacrificing lesser interests to that goal. That would sound like Ben, but other evidence still points toward Michael.

Cardie

I like this theory Cardie, Bentham sure has some similarities to Ben. So I was reading up on him in wikipedia. I came across something about 3/4 of the way down the page, under the title, "In Popular Culture" (it may be a little spoilerish)

One of Bentham's influences.... John Locke :)
and he influenced..... David Hume

Michael. No doubt about it.

The spoilers didn't mention the African-American aspect; they just told us that Jack was neither friend nor family and Kate indicated she had no interest at all in attending.

That narrowed it to someone they both knew but didn't care for and also someone who had left the island (elimnating Locke and Ben, imo.) That alone was enough to make Michael the leading candidate.
Still.I was surprised when the funeral director and neighborhood turned out to be African-American. I expected tptb to be more coy about it.

Michael's family includes Walt and his mom, but their absence doesn't bother me.

It was absolutely and clearly a child's coffin.

I think it's too big to be a child's coffin. And aren't children's coffins usually white, signifying innocence?

Walt would show up for either Michael's or Locke's funeral. I'm going with Ben.

"Jeremy Bentham" is another philosopher who speculated on the social contract; he's the father of utilitarianism. I suspect that's a little joke.

Because the funeral parlor was in an African American neighborhood, with an African American funeral director, I think it's Michael or Walt, especialy as they are from New York. Michael would be more likely to commit suicide over his guilt, a guilt Jack may share if his decision caused deaths on the island. And since he was an artist, he might have a loft. On the other hand, we had Walt showing up via Smokey to encourage Locke and Sawyer referencing his being taken off the raft. So I could see him despairing upon learning what his father did and getting into bad company, perhaps being shot, if we aren't really supposed to read the newspaper. Jack would be more likely to regret his death.

All and all, I'm guessing Michael, though.

Cardie


I agree. In addition I think Michael could have taken the alias "Jeremy Bentham" due to Ben's warning that if he ever told anyone about the Island that the fact he murdered two people would be made known to the authorities in the real world. I can also see Michael as developing suicidal feelings based on what he had to do in order to get off the Island. There's also the possibility that his relationship with Walt deteriorated, maybe to the point of alienation. If Michael didn't have Walt, his actions would definately have been for naught.

I'm agreeing on it being Locke. Freeze-framing it I see "Man found...body of Jo (or a)." Locke fits in a couple of ways. Assuming that whoever Naomi worked for had plans of their own for the island, they probably removed everyone whether they wanted to go or not, in order to carry out their plans unhindered.

Locke, having left the island, would likely lose the ability to walk. This would make him depressed enough in my opinion to commit suicide. Thematically, Locke having his legs removed, either through amputation or other means, fits better than the only other possibility I see, which is James Ford.

Kate would react the way she did because the last thing Locke did was try to stop their rescue, and Locke was certainly not Jack's friend. Jack would get broken up about Locke's death because he now thinks he should not have left the island, just like Locke said. Locke having no family and being the man we saw in Walkabout (no friends/phone sex caller for companionship) would likely have no one come to his funeral.

Lastly, the "ntham" is likely the location name or building he was found at.

All signs point to Locke.

I was thinking Ben until I read your post. Tho it seems more likely that someone would come to Locke's visitation -- like Walt -- than Ben's. This assumes Walt survives, but we don't know who makes it off the island, so it's hard to speculate why no one came to the visitation. Whoever it is that dies, it's someone Kate doesn't like. And since she clearly feels ok about being off the island, Locke makes sense, since he's interfered with so many of their rescue attempts.

"Jeremy Bentham" is another philosopher who speculated on the social contract; he's the father of utilitarianism. I suspect that's a little joke.

Because the funeral parlor was in an African American neighborhood, with an African American funeral director, I think it's Michael or Walt, especialy as they are from New York. Michael would be more likely to commit suicide over his guilt, a guilt Jack may share if his decision caused deaths on the island. And since he was an artist, he might have a loft. On the other hand, we had Walt showing up via Smokey to encourage Locke and Sawyer referencing his being taken off the raft. So I could see him despairing upon learning what his father did and getting into bad company, perhaps being shot, if we aren't really supposed to read the newspaper. Jack would be more likely to regret his death.

All and all, I'm guessing Michael, though.

Cardie

Good theorizing Cardie and good catch on the philosopher. Michael is my guess too. And it is quite possible that Michael would go by an alias after what he did. And he fits in the category of neither family or friend. A reason for Walt not going to the funeral (if he is still alive) is that he knows what his dad did and distanced himself from him. The daddy issues continue.

I don't know where people are getting this child-sized-coffin thing from. Looked like a normal coffin to me. If it were say, Walt, or someone, it would just be in a regular sized coffin anyways. Walt isn't an infant, I don't think they would have some custom small coffin for him. If it were Walt, wouldn't his mother or Michael be there?

The most likely candidates because of no one being at the funeral are Locke or Ben. The "J" in the name in the obituary (I don't see an E after it) could be completely meaningless.

I agree. In addition I think Michael could have taken the alias "Jeremy Bentham" due to Ben's warning that if he ever told anyone about the Island that the fact he murdered two people would be made to the authorities in the real world. I can also see Michael as developing suicidal feelings based on what he had to do in order to get off the Island. There's also the possibility that his relationship with Walt deteriorated, maybe to the point of alienation. If Michael didn't have Walt, his actions would definately have been for naught.


This makes perfect sense. TPTB are toying with everyone. They're not going to put an actual character's name in the obituary. They're going to put something in there to confuse and to create speculation for 8 months. the "J___ ___them" is clearly the first and last name of the person. "The body of J___ ____them of New York..." the "them" is not the name of a building, it makes no sense in the context of the obituary. But for TPTB to put in another famous philosophers name (in line with many other characters on the show), they're just screwing with us...telling us to "chew on this for 8 months suckers"

Logically, Jack and co were probably "rescued" relatively quickly after he established communications with Naomi's boat. Ben would be a logical choice because he was tied up with Jack and co. Locke went back in the jungle, presumably to Jacob's hut. It's a safe assumption he'd be left behind on the island. TPTB know who is in the coffin, but are just screwing with us on the obituary...based on what we've been shown, Ben's odds are much better than Locke's at this point...

I love the "I'm 100% sure" posts. Who can be absolutely sure of anything on this show, much less something like this? ;)

The key point for me is: why would Michael, Locke, Ben, or anyone dying upset Jack so much? He was clearly very upset when he saw the paper on the plane, and based on everything we've seen so far, I just can't fit any of those people into that kind of a reaction. Especially Michael...he could be dead in our currently story--drowned at sea--and Jack wouldn't care at all. Why would he? Michael killed Libby and Ana Lucia, both of whom Jack liked. Nothing ever turns something like that around. I personally think it's very likely that it's someone we haven't met yet.

The entire scene really reminds me of the last scene from Season 2, with Penny's people in the observation hut. At the time we knew nothing whatsoever of that scene, but it set the stage for some of things in Season 3. I think this death is similar.

This is odd -- first time I've ever been browsing a thread when it had another thread merged into it...

It was definately a childs coffin.

I completely didn't get that it was a child's coffin. It looked full-sized to me. Coffins always seem to me to be wider than they should have to be, so proportionally, it might have seemed short.

I can't see Ben wanting to leave the island.

Perhaps he was removed by force. Whoever owns that freighter wants to use the island for their own purposes, and would presumably be able to remove all of the people on it. And anyone else I can think of, somebody would have been at the funeral. Even if it had been Locke, I think some of his treachery would have been forgiven, since for all he tried to prevent it, they still got rescued.

Has anybody thought about JACOB? Perhaps he died when the island died.

Jacob! That's an interesting idea!

Another thing to ponder:

Why would this persons obituary be on the front page of a national newspaper? If someone had enough status to acheive that, why are they at some tiny funeral parlor in a rundown neighborhood with nobody in attendance?
Maybe this was just a goof on the producers part...

It wasn't the front page -- there was no big page header at the top. It was just the first page of an internal part of the paper. And as such, it was probably not even the first page of a section of the paper, like the local news section, as that would still have a big header. It was either the first page of a folio (sorry, that's the technical term, and I can't come up with a better word for it) within a section of the paper, or perhaps the paper was folded over to an internal page.

Okay, so maybe it was Jack's coffin, how about that? Maybe there was this whole dual-reality thing going on, and it ended up causing all sorts of problems, and...no this is dumb. The other Jack would have died in the other plane crash. But it was fun for a minute.

It had to be someone that made Jack get addicted to drugs and want to kill himself...Juliet...
...if Jack was the only one that came then it must have been someone that no one liked, but Jack felt responsible somehow.
Agree w/ both those quotes.

It's Locke or Ben.

I can't vote, cuz I can't decide either. I don't think it was a child's coffin, though, because I can't believe no one would come to a child's funeral.

If we think of survivor's remorse and Jack feeling badly about forcing Ben off the Island, then it might be Ben, cuz I can understand Kate's reaction of "why would I go?"

So...I'm guessing Ben or Locke, but I just can't decide--not enough information. But it sure is maddening not to know!

I'm agreeing on it being Locke. Freeze-framing it I see "Man found...body of Jo (or a)." Locke fits in a couple of ways. Assuming that whoever Naomi worked for had plans of their own for the island, they probably removed everyone whether they wanted to go or not, in order to carry out their plans unhindered.

Locke, having left the island, would likely lose the ability to walk. This would make him depressed enough in my opinion to commit suicide. Thematically, Locke having his legs removed, either through amputation or other means, fits better than the only other possibility I see, which is James Ford.

Kate would react the way she did because the last thing Locke did was try to stop their rescue, and Locke was certainly not Jack's friend. Jack would get broken up about Locke's death because he now thinks he should not have left the island, just like Locke said. Locke having no family and being the man we saw in Walkabout (no friends/phone sex caller for companionship) would likely have no one come to his funeral.

Lastly, the "ntham" is likely the location name or building he was found at.

All signs point to Locke.

I agree...I hit freeze frame in HD and also saw the same...

Los Angeles
Man found ________
Downtown loft

The body of Jo______ _____antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
am in the _____ _____ of Grand
Avenue_______

(the next few lines are a blur but it does say something about a noise and a beam...like hanging from a beam)

I think that Kate had Sawyer waiting (why else would they have made a point for Jack to tell Kate that Sawyer was just protecting Kate by asking her not to go?

Also, Locke telling Jack that he made a mistake by making the sat phone call tells me that it was Locke that had ended his miserable post island life.

Is it possible that Locke took a new last name (maybe found out who his real father was if not Cooper?) or just changed his name for another reason.

The only thing is that Locke is not from New York??? Very confusing!

This episode has me thinking like crazy...a complete mind blower if you ask me.

I agree. In addition I think Michael could have taken the alias "Jeremy Bentham" due to Ben's warning that if he ever told anyone about the Island that the fact he murdered two people would be made known to the authorities in the real world. I can also see Michael as developing suicidal feelings based on what he had to do in order to get off the Island. There's also the possibility that his relationship with Walt deteriorated, maybe to the point of alienation. If Michael didn't have Walt, his actions would definately have been for naught.

You've totally convinced me it's Michael. Great points!

I still believe it's Juliet. Someone from the island he went through this crash survival/experience/ordeal with is now dead, and is shocking enough to him to cause him to want to commit suicide, I'ts the final trauma in a long line of traumatic events that is just the final blow... why would this death drive him to commit suicide and be so upset receiving that news, he admits he is not family or freind to whomever, but is saddenned by the death with the little hand touch goodbye to the coffin, which wouldn't be true of Ben the man he despized.
Though I think he is mostly upset though that someone succeeded in dying before he could, as he is gungho trying to tempt death. Diamondone :eek2:

This is odd -- first time I've ever been browsing a thread when it had another thread merged into it...



I completely didn't get that it was a child's coffin. It looked full-sized to me. Coffins always seem to me to be wider than they should have to be, so proportionally, it might have seemed short.



Perhaps he was removed by force. Whoever owns that freighter wants to use the island for their own purposes, and would presumably be able to remove all of the people on it. And anyone else I can think of, somebody would have been at the funeral. Even if it had been Locke, I think some of his treachery would have been forgiven, since for all he tried to prevent it, they still got rescued.



Jacob! That's an interesting idea!



It wasn't the front page -- there was no big page header at the top. It was just the first page of an internal part of the paper. And as such, it was probably not even the first page of a section of the paper, like the local news section, as that would still have a big header. It was either the first page of a folio (sorry, that's the technical term, and I can't come up with a better word for it) within a section of the paper, or perhaps the paper was folded over to an internal page.

Okay, so maybe it was Jack's coffin, how about that? Maybe there was this whole dual-reality thing going on, and it ended up causing all sorts of problems, and...no this is dumb. The other Jack would have died in the other plane crash. But it was fun for a minute.

Its not so dumb. Interesting actually. But my money is still on Ben or Locke. Moreso Ben.

That really bugged me. I was thinking Sayid, who would come? Nadia thinks he is dead.. No one is left. Others are probably not in LA and I do think Kate meant sawyer at the end.

The key point for me is: why would Michael, Locke, Ben, or anyone dying upset Jack so much? .

Locke would upset him because Locke embodies the idea that they should not have left the island, something Jack derided him for but has since come to believe in. Jack rides a plane around the world every week hoping he crashes. He is upset over Locke's death because he thinks John was right

I don't know where people are getting this child-sized-coffin thing from.

I particularly enjoyed the post that suggested that it must be Locke, because he would have had his legs amputated, so he'd be in a small coffin. Gad, I hope that was a joke.

I love the "I'm 100% sure" posts. Who can be absolutely sure of anything on this show, much less something like this? ;)

The key point for me is: why would Michael, Locke, Ben, or anyone dying upset Jack so much? He was clearly very upset when he saw the paper on the plane, and based on everything we've seen so far, I just can't fit any of those people into that kind of a reaction.

Actually, that's what made me think it was Ben -- I could see the path to Jack being so upset over his death. Here goes:

We begin with Jack not killing Ben at the radio tower. Then Jack finds out that Sayid, Bernard and Jin aren't dead, so he has no really good reason to kill Ben. Then the people from the boat arrive. Jack learns that Ben was not lying about the fact that they weren't sent by Penny Widmore (I assume they were sent by her father, since Naomi knew of Desmond, and mentioned Penny's name). The people who come from the boat kill a whole bunch of people, trying to do what Ben said they would -- kill everyone on the island. The Losties and the Others now have a common enemy. They go into hiding on the island, and are hunted. Penny, having communicated with Charlie, now has a lead on where to look Before the gang from the boat can hunt everyone down and kill them, Penny's people show up and rescue whomever is left alive. Since the people from the boat have control over the island, Ben is either unable to stay (and stay alive), or is compelled to leave. Once back on the mainland, he goes into seclusion, having no friends or family, and having lost his life's purpose. His life is ruined. Jack feels that he is to blame for not having listened to him (isn't that SO Jack?) Ben dies a broken man, has no one even to give him a funeral, and nobody even comes to the viewing. And there we are.

The only missing part is that we don't know why Jack thinks going back would help. But then again, he didn't say where they had to go back to. Or when (sting music: dun dun DUUUUNNNNNHH!).

Locke would upset him because Locke embodies the idea that they should not have left the island, something Jack derided him for but has since come to believe in. Jack rides a plane around the world every week hoping he crashes. He is upset over Locke's death because he thinks John was right


The only thing that makes me lean away from Locke are the way Darlton word their comments regarding Locke in podcasts and articles...but you never know, this is Lost.

Hanso?

My last thought on this subject (for at least 5 minutes, lol) is that Cardie is correct with his call on the name - Jeremy Bentham. We know how much TPTB enjoy using names with philosophical meaning, and his ideals would seem to fit in with the general theme for this island.
So my vote goes for a character that we have not met yet, that goes by that name, and will end up playing some sort of vital role with the losties in episodes to come.

my brain hurts.

Its not so dumb. Interesting actually. But my money is still on Ben or Locke. Moreso Ben.
No, no it is dumb. Don't try to flatter me by saying it isn't.:)

Actually, the reason it couldn't be true is is that if it were some sort of dual-reality thing, the other Jack would have been on the wreck of the plane they found four miles deep in an ocean trench. He wouldn't have been in a loft in LA.

I thought this was pretty easy to figure out.....of course it's Vincent in the coffin...not friend or family to Jack and that is way Kate looked at him like he was out of his mind thinking she would care about the death.

Ok its 6.40 am here and i aint been to bed yet so please tell me if you think my eyes are deceiving me but does anyone else think that a few of these lines in the screencap end to suddenly? they seem to be what we call tipexed out (i think our American cousins call it white out not sure) and if so WHY?

My last thought on this subject (for at least 5 minutes, lol) is that Cardie is correct with his call on the name - Jeremy Bentham. We know how much TPTB enjoy using names with philosophical meaning, and his ideals would seem to fit in with the general theme for this island.
So my vote goes for a character that we have not met yet, that goes by that name, and will end up playing some sort of vital role with the losties in episodes to come.

my brain hurts.

So if someone in the show were going to change their name to that of a philosopher, Ben might change his name to Jeremy BENtham.

i voted for 'someone not listed here'
we haven't even met them yet
thanks to Cardie for coming up with the name Jeremy Bentham,
google him and it may make you think twice.

Think on this:

What if Sawyer is in the casket.
He has no family, and alienated nearly everybody on the island.
Even Kate in tonight's episode.
Jack, being in love with Kate, would consider him neither family nor friend.

Everybody's assuming that Kate is talking about Sawyer at the end when she says, "He's going to wonder where I've been" or something to that effect.
BUT - what if Kate really is pregnant, leaves the island, and vows never to speak to Sawyer again.
If the flashback is 3 or 4 years later, she could be talking about her son.

I'm guessing it's Ben. Either that, or it's someone we haven't met, yet.


And on a bit of a side note: How many times do you think they had to shoot this scene to make sure the clip was unreadable in all the right places? lol

I particularly enjoyed the post that suggested that it must be Locke, because he would have had his legs amputated, so he'd be in a small coffin. Gad, I hope that was a joke.


That's a rather simplified version of what I said. I was commenting on the fact that it is a small coffin, and that if it were to be an adult character, that fits with both Jack and Kate's reaction and has the letters "J" and "O" or "A" in their name, then surely Locke losing his legs for whatever reason fits thematically better than any other character. That's all. No ridiculous theories or inferences necessary.

John Locke is a short enough name to fit in the very short area obscured by the wrinkle.

I thought this was pretty easy to figure out.....of course it's Vincent in the coffin...not friend or family to Jack and that is way Kate looked at him like he was out of his mind thinking she would care about the death.

Damn beat me out by like 2 mins! lol was just about to post "What no vincent option?!" :biggrin:

However i really dont know who it might have been, it had to be either a child or a really small adult cause that coffin definitly looked smaller then full sized. On a side note did anyone else notice the funeral home's name? it was a clue in itself...

Hoffs/Drawler funeral homes = Flash forward funeral homes (with a lil finegeling of the letters)

Thats what i'm saying look at it and zoom in on the picture ,now compare the colour of the spaces in between the words with the colour of the top paragraph's part lines, the more i look at it the more i think it's not just my eyes and good camera work that stopped us seeing more of the artical it's something they took out ,looks to be an address is my best guess ,but then why put it in just to white it out?to keep us guessing?

I think Ben and Locke stayed on the island...they obviously didn't want to be rescued...so why would they be. I think Danielle probably stayed as well.

I don't buy that HE is a kid, that doesn't make sense because the way Kate said it was that he would be suspicious or wouldn't like that she was seeing Jack. I still think HE is Sawyer - of course I really want to believe that too... :biggrin:

Maybe it's someone we haven't met yet that will become important in season 4?

This is what I think about the dead person because no one that we know so far really fits well enough. It's possible that whoever this person is just reminds Jack that it was a mistake to get off the island. More important is what made him do such a drastic turnaround...did they all suffer when they got back??

Ben maybe-kinda fits with my theory that if he keeps the island he stays the King, but if they snatch him back to the real world, then he is basically like his father-Roger-a workman. Jack seems obsessed with getting back to the island and maybe he's bummed because Ben maybe could have helped him find it, but Ben skid-rowed out in that neighborhood and somebody paid for his funeral at a nearby funeral home? Hell, it looks like Jack isn't far behind him if he doesn't get his act together, and the fact that he wanted to jump off the bridge after reading it makes me think it was Ben and Jack's last chance to get back and "fix things".

I'm pretty sure that by taking the rescue Jack et al. came out in a past timeline while the people who "stayed" eventually came out in the regular normal timeline. Which would make the "rescued" younger, and the eventually "rescued correctly" people older. I'm pretty sure they are making a point of the fact that Kate and Jack are YOUNGER in this timeline, as Jack has not one grey hair in his head or beard, but on the island he has plenty of grey in the beard. They were rescued into the past time line, while the people who stayed (I'm assuming not everybody took the rescue) were eventually rescued to the correct time line by "the whispers" who in my opinion are "rescuing" people everytime somebody dies, as with Shannon, Eko etc., into the correct timeline. Anyway, if you want to read my general theory on it, go to "Open Your Eyes People" on the General Theories board-I've been trying to nail it down to post my specific theory and I think I MIGHT have it, but we'll see....Namaste...(<>..<>)

Why does everyone assume Locke or Ben is going to leave the island? I see nothing in either that makes them want to go back....

I would pick Michael. He has no family except for Walt....and everyone on the island knows what he did.

I'm still in the minorty here, but I still think its Michael. The obit says a man from NY and the name is just an alias (and TPTBs way of messing with us).

Just saw this:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg

from what I can read:

Los Angeles
Man Found Dead In
Downtown Loft

The body of Jo---antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
am in the -- of Grand
Avenue.

The second paragraph is too hard to make out, but I think it talks about whoever found the body.
The only words I can make out are
"man at The Tower"
"loud noises"
"loft"
"hanging on a beam in the"

Why does everyone assume Locke or Ben is going to leave the island? I see nothing in either that makes them want to go back...
Perhaps they had no choice.

I think it was Ben, but I SO like the idea of it having been Jacob.

I don't think it is any of the losties because if it was atleast one of the losties would be there. It has to be someone like ben! who else do both jack and kate know?! it had to be someone from the island that they both hate enough not to go to their funeral.

Also, ben wouldn't have any life to go back to if he did indeed leave the island which means he probably had to pick a pretty cheap area to live in and the funeral was held in a poorer area. So i'm thinking it was ben.

I voted Michael but I also think it could have been Ben or Locke. I don't think it's Sawyer because he is either 1) with Kate and that's who she was talking about wondering where she was or 2) was killed on the beach somehow with the rest of the beach folks and that's what's haunting Jack and Kate.

Locke. He warned Jack not to go back. And besides, the writers have made such a big deal of the fact that Locke had no one back home. The losties all hated him because he turned into a murderer (Naomi).

locke walked away free and clear ...ben was tied to a tree ..i say ben was in the coffin

Screencaps are up that casket is definately tiny!

LINK (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101558&fullsize=1)

Screencaps are up that casket is definately tiny!

LINK (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101558&fullsize=1)

Locke. He warned Jack not to go back. And besides, the writers have made such a big deal of the fact that Locke had no one back home. The losties all hated him because he turned into a murderer (Naomi).

It's fairly clear Naomi isn't who she said she is, so it might be overlooked with all that will be going on next season.

I think it might be someone we haven't met yet. It might possibly be Michael...

The funeral director said that nobody showed up for the viewing - which led me to believe that it was either Locke or Sawyer...but I dont believe that Locke will ever be taken alive from the island! And Kate would have had some kind of emotional reaction if it were Sawyer.
So........I think it's someone we haven't met yet.

I agree. We still have three more seasons to go, so there's probably one or two major players that we've yet to meet.

Screencaps are up that casket is definately tiny!

LINK (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=101558&fullsize=1)


My hubby and I are still disagreeing on this one. The casket does look small from above. But from all other angles it looks normal. The above shot is just distortion, IMO.

I voted for Ben, but then I read some of the comments that it was a child's coffin. Could it have been Walt?

I'm now 100% sure the coffin contains
VINCENT!

Z0MGG!


:p
:rolleyes:

...his legs get amputated after he comes back to the real world...that's why the coffin was small. I'm a genius.

Here's a cap that I made:
http://img117.imageshack.us/img117/1045/obitxg6.jpg

From what I can make out it says:
Man Found [probably dead in] Downtown Loft
The body of Je.... ntham of New York was... shortly after 4 a.m... in the... of Grand Avenue.
...man at the Tower.... loud noises... from a beam in the....

So I guess someone committed suicide, but did anyone have a last name ending in -ntham?
I can't think of anyone we've seen with that surname ending.

1. It was a private funeral home which means someone paid for the funeral, it wasn't a body being released by the morgue into Potter's Field. Therefore someone paid for the funeral if only the corpse via their estate.
2. The funeral home appeared to be in an African American neighborhood. Churches in the US are still mostly segregated, but not all funeral homes. That is inconclusive and possibly a classic red herring.
3. Some people say the casket was short, but I didn't see that
4. No one showed up (yet)
5. Jack claims to be neither family nor friend
6. The obituary appears to be too small to read on any non-HD screencaps.

I personally feel that we were specifically not given enough information to decipher who it was, but I wanted a thread that detailed the evidence we were shown.
As a wife of a funeral director, I can tell you that someone had to make the arrangements unless this person made them beforehand.
The African-American funeral home could be a red herring but then again it may not be either.
The casket is standard size and not a child's casket. We've lost two children - one an infant and one seven year old and I can tell you the caskets are much smaller than this one. I think it's the angle of the shot that makes it look shorter than usual.


The name appears to begin with "Je". That's what I'm seeing too, sheba.

Nah... Jack would definitely consider Hurley a friend. =)
I meant that Kate was with Hurley not that Hurley died. Everyone would show up for that. ;)

"Jeremy Bentham" is another philosopher who speculated on the social contract; he's the father of utilitarianism. I suspect that's a little joke.

You beat me to the punch! I was thinking Jeremy Bentham. too.

I think the island is a good analogy to Bentham's panopticon - a prison where you are secretly observed by your captors.

Sorry if repeat...
Was the name of the funeral home Hoff Drawlar?
If so, anagrams=
http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=hoff+drawlar
Stuck out: FORWARD HALF
...probably nothing
100%
I think the island is a good analogy to Bentham's panopticon - a prison where you are secretly observed by your captors.
Good one Barrister! An interesting connection!

First impressions are sooo interesting. Mine was that it was (almost) obvious that it was Sawyer in the casket. Then I check in with the 'lage and it turns out that it was clear that lots of other characters are in the casket as well.

first impression
I think my gut instinct was that it's Sawyer because the funeral is in bumtown plus no one showed except Jack - who seems to be grasping for any connection to the island at this point, but would still not call Sawyer a friend. Plus, whoever it is - they are living in LA, and it's just as easy to con in LA as it is in Tallahassee.

It seems that a lot of people think that the man that Kate has to get back to is Sawyer - which I can't really understand. She won't even spend the night in his tent when they're stranded on an island, but once they get rescued they become a normal couple? Not likely. Much more likely imho that Sawyer commits suicide over this.

are people crazy?
This is what I thought about posts saying that it has to be Ben, or it has to be Locke. I cannot imagine either one leaving the island alive. There is NO way that Locke is going to leave. As for Ben, "Everything that I've done I've done for the island!" LA is a open-minded place, but this far surpasses Al Gore for man-earth love.

And then there is EdMuse, striding out of the jungle
I really like your Ben theory, it makes sense and I could be happy if the story went this way. I've actually thought for a while that Dharma (or somebody) would come back and the lines between the 815ers and the Others would be blurred. I guess I got bamboozled by all the love quadrangle stuff in the finale. Anyway, great post!

P.S. I like the Michael theories too, but for the moment I think the Ben one makes the most interesting story.

I think it's Michae. If Jack and Kate found out that Michael had been rescued and didn't send someone to get them off the island, it would explain why Kate reacted the way she did. And also why Jack didn't want to look at him. It would also explain why Jack was surprised no one came to the services, meaning he was surprised Walt didn't come. He answered neither to family or friend, which would be accurate if Michael never sent help. Didn't the paper say a man was found in a bar? I bet Jack's not the only one with a drug problem. :frown:

As far as Jack being upset by the news he read, I think it was just another horrible reminder of what happened on the island.

ok -- anyone else notice that the coffin really appears to be way too short for a full grown adult??

i thought it was micheal or juliet.

You beat me to the punch! I was thinking Jeremy Bentham. too.

I think the island is a good analogy to Bentham's panopticon - a prison where you are secretly observed by your captors.

While my familiarity with the panopticon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon) comes second hand via Foucault, I think that your description is a little misleading.

Basically, the idea of a panopticon is that the prisoners always fear that they are being observed, whether they actually are or not. They know that their captors can see them, but they cannot see their captors. It is basically a way to control with fear rather than violence.

Rose? She went back and her cancer returned...

Neither friend or family, then it must be...

enemy.

My vote is either Ben or Locke, but I can only choose one, so I pick enemy #1... Ben

Walt would show up for either Michael's or Locke's funeral. I'm going with Ben.

That's assuming Walt survived.

It is probably someone we haven't met yet. How often do they setup mysteries like this which we can so easily guess this far in advance?

Let's make the list, shall we...

Ben: Would die before he leaves the island, seriously. Very little chance.
Michael: Unless something happened to Walt, Walt WOULD be there.
Claire: People would definately be there.
Jin: Sun would be there.
Sun: Jin would be there.
Sayid: Doesn't seem the logical fit.
Juliet: Her sister would have come.

To me, it's Sawyer. Kate's with someone else. That's how it is after the island.

Why do so many people say Locke, let alone Ben? Would Jack really care that much if Locke died? Trying to kill himself over it? Would Kate be that distant about it? I can see a little bit of the possibility. That somehow he ended up understanding Locke before he died, and being full of regret. But I don't know. I think it might be someone else.

Ben, when he was in America, was from Oregon. Or Washington.

Given the neighborhood and coffin size, I want to say Walt. since Michael couldn't afford to nice in a nice place anyway.

Given the neighborhood and coffin size, I want to say Walt. since Michael couldn't afford to nice in a nice place anyway.

Michael didn't show up?

I think it was Locke. Why did Jack care? Because he finally realized that Locke was right. They were brought to the island for a reason and they should've stayed. Jack realizes that and that's why he's so messed up.

I'm thinking it's Michael too. Jack would feel it was the ''right thing to do", while Kate most likely wouldn't remember him fondly. He betrayed them all. :(

I think it was in the newspaper because the 815 survivors got a lot of press, and maybe they have been dying off.

I had enough anxiety over Locke being dead..being alive...that I don't want to consider it being him.

But I can understand why Jack would get emotion about either Ben or Locke. They both played a huge role at the most important time of his life. Plus something bad obviously happened when they got rescued, which is why Jack has survivor's remorse. His felt responsible for the woman's car crash; he felt responsible for whatever happened on the island. Both Ben and Locke told him something bad would happen.

Plus, if it was John, well then John basically sacrificed everything for Jack by not shooting him.

Jack said he was tired of lying. They also got gold cards to fly anywhere for free. I think whoever took them off the island made them agree to give false accounts as to what really happened.

Naomi was bad. Locke was filled in. He had to be told that the Losties were going to the tower and how to get there also.

The coffin contains....


JACK HIMSELF!!! :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2: :eek2:



Hey, with all of the time jumping and clone speculation, why not! :biggrin:

The only person that would make sense for Jack to be so emotional over and Kate to be so indifferent over, would be Juliet.

Not Juliet -- the newspaper item Jack read was about a man found..........

which is why she said "no, why would i go?"

...think about it...if "kate austin" wasn't dead she'd be in jail. it also explains why no one was there...she doesn't have any family who cares about her. so the casket was empty. but doesn't make much sense he (the parlor dude) would offer to open it. unless he thought there was a body in there.

just an idea.

I don't know, I mean I can't blame someone who survived that island for not going back.

When Jack responded to the funeral directors question about "friend or family", he said EITHER. Thats what I heard. I think he was saying that you could call the dead a friend or family. Or both.

I thought it was Sawyer because he kinda snapped at her before he and Julliette left. I think the bitter felings might stick around for a while on that one.

I think the body in the coffin was either Locke or Ben, because whoever was in there, wasn't liked by Jack and Kate.

According to the obituary Jack was looking at, the name started with a 'J'. Probably John Locke.

In my opinion, it doesnt have to be anyone they currently hate.

We still have 3 more seasons to go through and alot of twists and turns could be had.

It could have been anyone. No point guessing. TPTB obviously didn't want you to know just yet.

An excellent episode! I'm with the others, it has to be Jack in the coffin, Jack is the only one who could make himself so down and out. Maybe the coffin is a metaphor for what Jack should have done. I got the feeling of a 'It's a Wonderful Life' scenario. :undecide:

Coffin Issue. I have sold coffins and its a standard size coffin. It is a cheap coffin simulated wood. LA prices about $2500.

Whoever is in the coffin, Jack has some attachment to as he gets very emotional when the funeral director asks jack if he wants to view the body. My guess is Jacks father, even though he refers that is father is alive, this is Lost and mindbending is normal.

1. Not a child's coffin.
2. Not Michael- I think we are done with Michael.
3. Ben or Locke. They didn't want to leave the island, but I think they were forced.

Sounds like it was Locke.

Just saw this:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/...rclipping2.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg)

from what I can read:

Los Angeles
Man Found Dead In
Downtown Loft

The body of Jo---antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
am in the -- of Grand
Avenue.

The second paragraph is too hard to make out, but I think it talks about whoever found the body.
The only words I can make out are
"man at The Tower"
"loud noises"
"loft"
"hanging on a beam in the"

I thought that casket looked kinda short.. So.. Maybe Claire,Aaron,Walt, or Charlie is my bet...

No. the guy ask Jack if he was friend, or family , and Jack indicate that he was neither. So it couldn't have been any one of them, since Jack and Kate consider Claire ,Aaron, Walt and Charlie a friend.

Ben's the only one who really fits though. He probably would not have had anyone come to his funeral. Everyone was so against him at the end because he had lied to so many people.

True. Ben is the only one that fit. I know a lot of people believe that Ben would never leave the island, but if he's force to, he probably would. If the people who Naomi was trying to contact was as bad as Ben said they were, than he likely would try to escape the island. Ben been on the island most of his life, and his parent are dead, and any friends he would have had would have been on the island. So I think the person in the coffin is Ben. If it had been a flight 815 survivor the press would have been covering the viewing, and Jack and Kate would have both been there.

I think it is Sawyer.

Jack wept and tried to kill himself, so whoever it is meant something to him.

Also, I can only think of Sawyer as having no friends show up at his funeral.

As for what Kate said, I have an interesting idea about who she's getting home to.....

Since it's sort of established that, in this future, Christian Shephard is alive, then I started thinking that maybe the Losties, returning to "real life" have gotten what they wanted.

Perhaps Kate is married to sweetheart Tom Brennan, who she "killed" by mistake in Season 1 when escaping from the hospital to see her mother.

Just an idea...

I think it's either Locke or Ben (not his real name, maybe?). The fact that Jack was so hung up about what a mistake they made leads me to believe it is one of them, because they were both trying to get Jack not to leave the island and now he realizes what a mistake he and Kate made, which is why he said he thought she would be there.

Casket however looks too small to belong to Locke (and Sawyer), so I'm thinking Ben.

http://lost.cubit.net/viewEgg.php?id=294

There's a more complete analysis of the obiturary. Now I am more confused than ever.

That was an awfully short coffin. I thought it must be a kid??

I really believe at this point that it could be virtually anyone in the casket and that no amount of research is going to tell us (us being the viewers) who is in the casket for sure. It's one of those we aren't supposed to know yet things.
As far as the casket size goes.. it is the size of 7.75 folding chairs lined up next to each other... :rolleyes: casket with chairs (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/elpack/casketchair.jpg)
I'm not quite sure how wide each chair is, but I picture 8 adults sitting side by side which would make the casket a standard sized one in my mind. When people post things that say "I know for sure" or similar statements it helps me to weed them out as not reliable to bother with their statements -- if someone states they know this is a child's coffin... I know that I'll ignore the rest of their statements.. (that's just to explain why I bothered with overlaying chairs..)

My gut feeling was that it would be someone that was not well liked after they left the island. Micheal comes to my mind. But that can and will change I'm sure.

I think it was in the newspaper because the 815 survivors got a lot of press, and maybe they have been dying off.

I had enough anxiety over Locke being dead..being alive...that I don't want to consider it being him.

But I can understand why Jack would get emotion about either Ben or Locke. They both played a huge role at the most important time of his life. Plus something bad obviously happened when they got rescued, which is why Jack has survivor's remorse. His felt responsible for the woman's car crash; he felt responsible for whatever happened on the island. Both Ben and Locke told him something bad would happen.

Plus, if it was John, well then John basically sacrificed everything for Jack by not shooting him.

Jack said he was tired of lying. They also got gold cards to fly anywhere for free. I think whoever took them off the island made them agree to give false accounts as to what really happened.

Naomi was bad. Locke was filled in. He had to be told that the Losties were going to the tower and how to get there also.

i so agree.. jack's beard a good way to hide your identy - the hero.. at the drug store. the man behind him didnt say save a woman - just that he knew who he was.. so that tells me that Jack was singled out as a saver of the losties.. a hero..
who ever is in the coffin was not liked none had family..

Sounds like it was Locke.

Just saw this:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/...rclipping2.jpg (http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg)

from what I can read:

Los Angeles
Man Found Dead In
Downtown Loft

The body of Jo---antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
am in the -- of Grand
Avenue.

The second paragraph is too hard to make out, but I think it talks about whoever found the body.
The only words I can make out are
"man at The Tower"
"loud noises"
"loft"
"hanging on a beam in the"

I think the second paragraph starts out:
"Ted _______ a doorman at The Tower _______ loud noises _______ from antham's (?) loft."

As far as the casket size goes.. it is the size of 7.75 folding chairs lined up next to each other... :rolleyes: casket with chairs (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/elpack/casketchair.jpg)


Not trying to shoot down any theories at all here, but using the chairs to measure the casket is very inaccurate. The chair are sitting several feet back from the casket (also lower to the ground, adding even more distance) and in perspective appear smaller to us than they actually are. If you can't see what I mean, look at the chair seats in relation to Jack's head. His head is much closer to the camera, so it appears to be almost as large as the chair seats. You can also get the same idea if you measure the length of his hand and compare it to the width of the chair seat.

My guess : it's John Locke.
- No one came to his funeral.
- Jack said that he was "neither friend nor family".

I think it is Sawyer.

Jack wept and tried to kill himself, so whoever it is meant something to him.

Also, I can only think of Sawyer as having no friends show up at his funeral.

As for what Kate said, I have an interesting idea about who she's getting home to.....

Since it's sort of established that, in this future, Christian Shephard is alive, then I started thinking that maybe the Losties, returning to "real life" have gotten what they wanted.

Perhaps Kate is married to sweetheart Tom Brennan, who she "killed" by mistake in Season 1 when escaping from the hospital to see her mother.

Just an idea...

The idea that Kate married her childhood sweetheart works for me... the Losties MUST be in some sort of alternate reality here. Absent some major changes in the past Kate would be in prison for murder and Christian Shepard would be dead. I'm liking the idea of Michael or Sawyer.

I think the person in the coffin was Locke, though I did think it was Sawyer at first. I think Locke was forced off the island when everyone else was rescued, and lost the use of his legs again, which caused him to be very angry with Jack. That would explain why Jack was so distraught to learn of his death--he felt guilty about not listening to Locke on-island, about bringing everyone home (which was obviously a bad thing, at least for him! ).

I'm going with Michael in the coffin. What he did on the island was too much for him to live with and he killed himself. He was neither family nor a "friend" of Jacks.

Two thoughts....

Jack is so upset by the obit because he had been trying to go back to the island and recreate the decision to be rescued. Whoever died was at the island at that time and now it is impossible to recreate that scenario.

It's likely the person that died is white because the funeral director asked if Jack's family (I know it is possible, but going for the simplest answer).

- Jack said that he was "neither friend nor family".

I think Jack would probably acknowledge any of the Losties as a 'friend', so my guess would be that the dead man is an Other. My choice would be Ben.

I thought it was Locke at first, but it could have been Juliet, she only had the one sister and we don't know if once they left the island her cancer could have returned. Juliet was the only person who really would have mattered that much to Jack.

When Jack responded to the funeral directors question about "friend or family", he said EITHER. Thats what I heard. I think he was saying that you could call the dead a friend or family. Or both.
Actually, he said "Neither."

I'm thinking it was Locke. Maybe leaving the island made his life continue on as it was before, all misery and humiliation until he died alone, and seeing what happened to him made Jack realize that Locke had been right all along.

This is all so hard to say because they could be messing with us and it could be someone we haven't met yet. Or it could be someone we really like now that they know there going to turn bad later on. But if I had to pick I would pick Michael.

I think Jack would probably acknowledge any of the Losties as a 'friend', so my guess would be that the dead man is an Other. My choice would be Ben.

Locke, a friend to Jack ?
Not after what Locke put the Losties through !

Well the guy in the coffin is obvioulsy who ever was in the paper so..
From This Image:
http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/RlUe-1YihSI/AAAAAAAAFkw/ucINFuG1jfo/s1600-h/newspaperclipping2.jpg

I got this:

LOS ANGELES

Man found d...
downtown loft
antham of
The body of Jo...shortly after 4
New York was J..of Grand
a.m in the....
Avenue.....
The........a...man at the
Tower............Heard Loud
noise..................Loft
Ch/Co.............Survived the
...the........a beam in the
...
.mom.. {Jacks
cord....{Thumb
... {Folds
med {Paper

What I think it should read:

The body of Jo..antham of
New York was found shortly after 4
a.m in the...of Grand
Avenue
The...a man at the
Towersaid he heard a loud
noise........loft
(then what is written above)

The coffen seemed so small.
We have no idea how far in the future the flash foward took place.
I'm wondering if it isn't Walt or Aaron.
But then why wouldn't Kate care?

The fact that th funeral dircter was black makes me lean more towards Walt.

Still doesn't answer why no one would come. But then we don't know what Walt may do yet.

My guess is it was Michael. It seems to fit Jack and Kate's reactions the best, and the fact that you can make out "Man found" in the article (ruling out Juliet). And I bet Jack was trying to call Walt at first.

I was thinking Michael as well (particularly due to their reactions) but didn't he live in New York?

Michael. Based on Kate's reaction.

My bet is on it being someone we do not know yet. Possibly a redshirt ATM and maybe not even an important character in the bigger picture but another nail in Jacks coffin filled with guilt for taking these people off the island when he was warned by those in tune with the island not to. I can only wonder how many have died or have had their lives destroyed by this point in Jacks future life to bring him to the point of jumping off of a bridge - and BTW Jack would be the LAST person I would expect to look up at the sky and ask for forgiveness. Something very big or bad drove him to believe and/or have faith, something he has never had.

If it was kate, was Jack hallucinating when he was talking to Kate. That explains the lack of freckles.

I was thinking about some criteria for the person, and it seems like its

1- Someone that no one cares enough about to show up to a funeral/ viewing
2- Someone Jack would be upset about
3- Someone Jack thinks Kate would care about.

I don't think anyone we have on the show yet exactly fits these criteria. Maybe Sawyer, since I'd say he fulfills 1 and 3.

I'm going to guess Locke.

Jack reaction is what makes me think this, and also Kates non-reaction. Jack must know that he made a huge mistake in getting them rescued, it has changed the fates of some of the losties, some for the good, but some for the worse (like Jack) If they forced Locke to leave with them he would have been devastated at leaving the island. I can see him living a hermits life in a deep dark depression, accepting no friends, having no close relatives that cared about him. Jack sees the obit and totally breaks down knowing he was the cause of this.

Kate on the other hand, seems to have accepted her "new life" and has moved on. Perhaps she found the redemption she needed on the island and was ready to be rescued, thus she never accepted Locke's pleas and manipulations to stay on the island. So her reaction would be "gosh, I'm sorry he died, but you can't fix it Jack, but I've got a new life now so I'm making the best of it"

That's my impression for now anyway, but as always, in Lost..."everything changes" ! :biggrin:

According to the obituary Jack was looking at, the name started with a 'J'. Probably John Locke.

... or James Ford... don't think hearing about Locke's or Ben's death would have such an impact on Jack.

Sorry but I can't see how it could have been for Kate...

IF it was a fake, the "parlor dude" would have been in it too and then he wouldn't have offered to open the coffin.

well someone had said earlier that it looked like a childs coffin maybe walt? maybe it was michael... and we really dont know how far apart these things occured from them leaving the island..my first guess was ben.

I voted Ben. Just a hunch, I don't think we will find that out until season 6 though!

I really can't see it being either Ben or Locke. Neither one would leave the island willingly, and they have no love for Ben and wouldn't exactly invite him along. I don't think we can really trust that there was a "J" in the obit - they probably just ripped a real article out of a real newspaper for it.
As for the "lack of freckles" people are commenting on...they aren't so prominent that a little makeup (which she is wearing in this scene) wouldn't hide them. See this photo, for example:

http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/evangelinelilly/evangeline_lilly_1.jpg

I was thinking Michael as well (particularly due to their reactions) but didn't he live in New York?

I thought Michael at first too, but the funeral director asked Jack if he was a friend or family. If it was Michael, I don't think Jack would have been mistaken for family.

If it's any of our losties we know today, then they must do something pretty horrible in order for nobody to show up to the funeral.

Personally, I think it's Sawyer and the He that Kate refers getting back to is their son. Kate didn't care that he died because she was angry with him for not being with her and their child. JMO anyhow.

I don't think it was Kate because from the shape Jack was in, they had been off the island for a while and Kate would have had to fake her death quickly.

In another thread I had said it maybe Walt or even aaron because the coffen seemed small to me, but that doesn't explain why no one came.

Locke really makes the most sense, I guess. Because he has betrayed them many times and kept so many secerts. I could see where there would be bitter feelings.

Plus it seemed like a poor funeral palar. Locke would go home to nothing. He would be disabled again, living on disablity.

the paper said man.. julia is out of it..
I think that kate went with sawyer.. made her peace with a choice.
the loud noise would come to reason about standing on something to hang from.
what means would it take for a person - if they didnt walk - to be able to hang them selfs?
jack touched the coffin as to say something.
I say that they were told not to communicate with each other..

If we don't get the answer to this until like the last season or something then we have no idea what will take place between now and then. Therefore we can't really come to a final conclusion as to who they were talking about that night that had died. Well, when can we ever come to any conclusions about this show?!!

I think it is Michael in the coffin. Here's why:
1. They made a point to show several black people standing around when Jack pulled up.
2. The funeral director was also black.
3. Because of 1 and 2, TPTB seem to be trying to indicate Jack was in a predominately black part of LA.
4. Michael, Walt, and Rose are black.
5. If Rose or Walt had died, other people would have shown up. They were liked by the Losties.
6. Not many people liked Michael with him doing all the killing and leading them to the Others and such - so no one came to the funeral.
7. Conclusion - Michael is in the coffin.

I just looked at some pretty decent screen caps, the way the clip is folded looks as if thee is a Je-and atham but if you look close on the easter egg link someone posted above it clearly say Jo__ and the next words are shortly after 4 am.

I thought Michael at first too, but the funeral director asked Jack if he was a friend or family. If it was Michael, I don't think Jack would have been mistaken for family.
What a politically incorrect thing to think/say. :rolleyes:

I really think it was Ben. Kate was disgusted at the thought of going to a funeral for the person. Ben is universally disliked. Jack believes he should have stayed on the island. Ben is probably the only other person besides Locke who would believe this. When Ben dies, Jack sees no hope of going back and comes close to suicide.

My only other random thought is that it could have been Michael.

i think kate should be added to the poll!!!

it's a definite possibility that it was a fake funeral for her. that's why jack didn't want the casket opened... he knew it was empty...

Personally, I think it's Sawyer and the He that Kate refers getting back to is their son. Kate didn't care that he died because she was angry with him for not being with her and their child. JMO anyhow.


Ooh, that's a good theory, although it would mean Kate is pregnant, which is scary (for her.) Sawyer is also someone Jack might not refer to as "a friend".

I think that whomever is in the coffin is directly related to Jack wanting/needing to find the Island and the walk to the radio tower. Therefore it is either

a)Ben-His knowledge of the island etc
b)Michael-him being on the boat and being sent away may have given him knowledge of the islands location
c)Locke-Same as ben, Knowledge of the island etc.
d) A new character who we haven't seen yet who is part of the rescue team.

Basically whoever this character was represented Jacks last chance at finding the Island and getting back to it. This is why he was so upset. The person wasnt considered friend or family but was obviously important to him.