So this was obviously a flash forward. A couple of things confused me...first of all Kate and Jack don't talk? If you had spent so many months on an island fighting to survive wouldn't you keep in touch? And does this mean that Jacks dad isn't dead??? He was refurred to a few times in the flash forwards, but if they were flashforwards then shouldn't his dad be dead?

And does the fact that it is a flashforward mean that the past can be changed?

When did Jack's flashbacks occur?

Evidence for the past

1. "You go get my father. If i'm drunker than he is, you can fire me"


Evidence for the future

1.Knew Kate.
2. References to the plane crash, "we have to go back" ; "they golden ticket they gave us"

I'll add more as I (or you) think of them.

When did Jack's flashbacks occur?

Evidence for the past

1. "You go get my father. If i'm drunker than he is, you can fire me"


Evidence for the future

1.Knew Kate.
2. References to the plane crash, "we have to go back" ; "they golden ticket they gave us"

I'll add more as I (or you) think of them.

We were seeing Jack in the future after at least he and Kate are rescued. He can't reconcile his experiences on the island with his life in LA. I think it's called survivor's syndrome or something.

Ok. In this post, when I say "flashbacks" I will be referencing tonight's Jack-centered, off island adventures. I am just using "flashbacks" because that's what we're all used to and we can't be sure they aren't flashbacks

I see two possibilities here-

1. Tonight's flashbacks took place in a time period before where we are on now (the island, the majority of the show so far, the present as we know it).

2. Tonight's flashbacks take place in a time period after the island we're on now and are really flashforwards, if you will.

So which is it? It's pretty much all I've been thinking about since the episode ended. Really eager to hear thoughts on this. I have proof for both possibilities... :undecide:

When did Jack's flashbacks occur?

Evidence for the past

1. "You go get my father. If i'm drunker than he is, you can fire me"


Evidence for the future

1.Knew Kate.
2. References to the plane crash, "we have to go back" ; "they golden ticket they gave us"

I'll add more as I (or you) think of them.

He was using a Razor Phone. All of the prior flashback scenes feature older cell phone models or ones that were in existence prior to 2004.

I liked how they had me fooled with the music in his truck. I was thinking "Oh, this was several years ago." Then the thing with Sarah as his emergency contact.
You witty writers you!!!

He was using a Razor Phone. All of the prior flashback scenes feature older cell phone models or ones that were in existence prior to 2004.Yeah, it was definately either "now" (meaning 2007) or sometime after he left the island.

I don't think they are so much "Flash Forwards" as much as the Flashbacks will now be all on island while the "non-flashbacks" will be off island real time. Just a thought.

Ok so what's up with his dad then...he's alive or what??? eeeek:eek2:

I didn't want to know that some of them get rescued but......what a great ep!!! :eek2:

Jack seemed to have quite a bit of gray in his beard in the flash back/forwards, which was actually the first thing I noticed, which he doesn't have on the island, so perhaps you are on to something

I'm still rolling this one around in my little pea brain. I can see both sides too.

Jack telling the chief of surgery to go up find his dad (paraphrased) makes me want to think it's past, since TPTB have so emphatically stated that Christian Shephard is dead. I know that Jack was doped up at the time he said it, but you'd have to be seriously out of it to not remember your father is dead.

Obviously, Kate being there indicates a flash foward, as does the mention of the island and him wanting to go back there. If this is a flashback to before the island then it sort of makes that scene in the pilot where Kate tells Jack her name, sort of out of whack. I suppose that you could argue that they were pretending not to know each other for the benifit of everyone else, but nobody else was around when she told him her name.

I'm so torn, I don't know what to think.

My third option is that they are in an alternate time altogether. One where Jack's father doesn't die, but is apparently still a drunk. Possibly Desmond flipping the fail safe switch last season changed some crucial events.

Oh this is making me dizzy.

Ummmmm...I think any evidence you present for a pre-island scenario would make me laugh. There is no question as to when this story took place.

I think it was a flashforwards from the present...which is on the island.

Your making my brain hurt.

Or perhaps was someone on the island having future flashes of Jack same way Desmond did with Charlie?

This is my biggest question as well. I don't really understand why a lot of people seem to be overlooking it so far? O_o

We have to remember the time loops in all of this and try to figure out how that factors in.

If the flashbacks tonight actually occurred before now (now being what we know to be the present, on the island) then does that mean Kate and Jack, at some point, realized they were in a loop (like Desmond has)? And if that's the case (remember, assuming tonight's flashbacks were in the past), then Kate and Jack are now back on the island trying to correct their mistakes? If the flashback was in a loop that happened before right now, does that mean making this call they just made was a mistake? Or does Jack know something of the future (because he realized he's looping), as he is making the call that enables him to feel safe about it?

OR are the flashbacks in the future, in front of where we are now (on the island)? If so, what does that imply? That making this call was a mistake? I don't see how this would work for the show... I mean... that would mean we would just go on with the knowledge that they're constantly screwing up. :p

And, as someone said on the LB, the hatch implosion might play a part in all of this. To expand upon that idea- The hatch implosion, or rather, Desmond turning the failsafe key was the big Choice, the exercise in Free Will. That has to play a big part in this. So what if that affected things. And how?

aaaaaaaarrrggghhh........holds head.......I feel dizzy

ok I think I know what you said and it's a good idea but it's hurting my head as do all theories about Lost including my own...:eek2:

I had the same thoughts about time travel or looping or what have you but ...I'm tired...

Yeah, it was definately either "now" (meaning 2007) or sometime after he left the island.

I don't think they are so much "Flash Forwards" as much as the Flashbacks will now be all on island while the "non-flashbacks" will be off island real time. Just a thought.

I think he was using a Motorola KRZR which came out late last year, so it must be closer to 'now' than sometime in 2004.

My poor brain believes, at this point, we saw Jack in the future. How to reconcile Jack referring to his father is a big question. Was Jack so stoned that he temporarily forgot his father was dead. Did Jack escape from the island to another time line? Brain tired. Must move on.

He could have been referencing his dad, because he was so stoned.

Ok, I thought I'd take a moment to put some of my observations:

Doesn't it seem weird that no one is reacting to Jack being around in the future? You would think that people would mention that he survived a plane crash, and was found after all of this time. Everyone acts like Jack never went anywhere. The guy in the pharmacy recognizes that Jack saved the people in the car, but I would think that there would be a bigger deal about him coming back from the dead, after being presumed to be in a plane crash. Afterall, the plane DID crash, and the world seems to know about it, hell, Oceanic gave Jack free lifetime tickets! What's up with this? What kind of coverup is in place? Can't wait to find out.

Sarah's reactions seem odd also, I need to rewatch this episode ASAP...

I've seeen others mention it also, but the same goes for Kate. Shouldn't she still be a fugitive?

Anyone feel free to add your observations of the future that don't quite fit with what we presume would happen if they got off the island.

it was cool to see, but really depressing. Kate with someone else, possibly Sawyer? Jack worse than ever. No one came to the funeral of one of them..Just wants to go back the island. It will be hard to watching three seasons waiting for it to get to this point. i'm quite sure its going to be changed..

Yeah it most definitely has to be changed. It's like, you mean to tell me after all Jack went through on the island, that this is his new life? I'd imagine him to be more mature about things and in better spirits. I certainly want to see him make up with his ex-wife Sarah and be more supportive of her and her new family.

Perhaps Oceanic was in on keeping the losties lost? Maybe they declared everyone dead on flight 815 purposely?

I agree... it is strange that everyone was acting like it never happened... but I believe Jack did say something to the effect of... "I'm sick of lying," which leads me to believe it was in fact covered up somehow...

Something is definately up. The way Jack talks about flying again so he can crash makes me think he is trying to go back and do it all over again like he is in the past or something. Not to mention if Christian is really alive.....

Might it be possible that this will turn out to be neither a flashback nor a flash forward, but rather a dream Jack is having after the events of tonigtht's episode? I for one do not want the next 3 years to be off-island! So I am hoping that all of these "bearded adventures": turn out to be Jack's imagination/trepidations/ dreams.

Kate was driving a Volvo S40. It came out late 2004.

Can i first start off by saying that this was one of the best episodes ever!

Now, the flashbacks have changed! Originally all of the losties were having flashbacks of their previous lives while being on the island. But now, atleast with jack's flashback, the losties are having flashbacks of their time on the island and are experiencing their lives in real times. Insane!

I wonder if the next 3 years will be of the losties having flashbacks of the island while they are living their lives back home.

anyone else think so?

And I thought I was confused during the episode!!! Now, I think my head is just going to explode.... lol You guys are all brilliant, by the way.....

Definitely a flash forward. Jack was being sarcastic when he referred to his father. And he probably used dye in his beard.

season 4 has a chance at greatness. Show two different views in every episode. One of the survivors desperately trying to get off the island and one of a small group of losties trying to get back onto the island... that parallel could be awesome...

PS. if rumors of time descrepancies are true... than if jack eventually does get back on the island, will he be coming back two years earlier, aka to a time before they had gotten rescued? Maybe "smokey" or the "whispers" are actually the attempts by a group of losties to stop rescue from happening. maybe some strange time machine ala dejavu, where you cannot travel back. but you can leave small impressions in the past.

PPS. maybe kate isn't a fugitive because the government or some orginization, took them aside and said "we aren't going to prosecute you, because you saw too much (or) we aren't going to prosecute you because you helped us find the island."

So this was obviously a flash forward.
And does the fact that it is a flashforward mean that the past can be changed?

Not so fast. The fact that Jack's father is still alive leads me to believe it was a flashBACK, not forward. Obviously, the first three seasons is their SECOND time on the island, if not more than that. Perhaps they have been there multiple times. For what purpose? Who knows.

http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x01-pilot/normal_normal-1x01-019.jpg

I think he was using a Motorola KRZR which came out late last year, so it must be closer to 'now' than sometime in 2004.

Holy carp, I was right. I remember seeing the cell phone and thinking, no way that came out before 2004. I thought someone people in the internet would complain about the continuity, but I guess not...


It's definitely post-crash. Kate, the golden tickets, Jack talking about how he wants to crash again, mentioning Sydney, the cell phone -- the evidence piles up.

The only thing counter to that is Jack's reference to his father. I realized that ten minutes after the finale ended, and it confused me greatly.

I don't see how anyone could seriously entertain the idea that the flashbacks/forwards happened before the crash. It doesn't make any sense! Now, I'm not sure why Jack mentioned his dad- whether he was that out of it, or being a jerk- but I AM pretty sure that the writers threw the entire line out there to fool us, to make the final reveal that more shocking.
100%
Ok, I thought I'd take a moment to put some of my observations:

Doesn't it seem weird that no one is reacting to Jack being around in the future? You would think that people would mention that he survived a plane crash, and was found after all of this time. Everyone acts like Jack never went anywhere.

Didn't someone say "hero, twice over?" Am I making that up? It could refer to the island. But more than that, I can't believe no one has mentioned Jack screaming "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I'VE BEEN THROUGH?" At first I thought he was being dramatic, but now, to me, it's obviously a reference to the crash, the island, being saved.

We get terrible TV reception, so I missed it when I viewed TTLG, but if you go to Screencaps on the DarkUFO website you get a good look at Jack sitting in the mess of his apartment surrounded by maps, plotting tools, compasses, etc. He is obviously trying to plot a course back to the Island.

There must be reason that no one recognized him as one of the Oceanic 815 survivors. I also thought it strange that people would say, "Hey, it's the hero doctor!' and not "Hey, it's an 815 survivor!"

Didn't someone say "hero, twice over?" Am I making that up?

No you are not making that up. It was the new chief of surgery that said it. And I agree, Jack was labeled a hero for getting them off the island.

Jack sitting in the mess of his apartment surrounded by maps, plotting tools, compasses, etc.

I saw it the first time but didnt realize what I was really looking at, just thought Jack was being a doped up slob.

This whole flashforward thing has totally blown my mind.

The writers gave us the end of the series leaving out the 4th, 5th and 6th seasons that would resolved why Jack was doing drugs. Flashback/flashforward and real time et al. It offers closure to some and for all it leaves questions. For me I have both satisfaction and desire for teh last 3 years of Lost, God willing I live that long.

I think the guy in line did say something to the effect of Jack being doubly heroic but I read that to mean he saved the woman and her son.

Another thing I had thought of and mentioned in another post, assuming this is a flash forward, continuous time line or alternate, would Jack's dad still be a practicing doctor post crash? Before the crash, Jack ratted him out. For Jack to come back before the incident and change it is a stretch. Otherwise, Christian probably doesn't have a licence anymore.

Here is a noodle baker...

What if the whole first 3 seasons have all been flashbacks to their time on the island?

OK, here is a stab at a possible series of events:
1. Flight 815 crashes on the Island. The events of seasons 1-3 unfold as we have seen them.
2. Against Ben and Locke's pleadings, Jack calls the ship run by the bad guys (Widmore? Paik?).
3. A strike team, lead by the bad guys lands on the island and kills all the others and many of the losties, just as Ben said they would.
4. In the mean time, Jack learns about the power of the island (eg Lockes regaining his legs, Jacob manifesting as Walt, Rose's cancer cured) and realizes that this power should not fall into the hands of the bad guys.
4. Jack, Kate, Sawyer etc. try to fight off the bad guys but fail. The remaining losties are captured and offered a chance to go back to the US if they keep their mouths shut. A cover story is made up, and the bad guys make it clear that if anyone tells the truth about the island, they will all be killed.
5. The remaining losties return to the US. Kate marries Sawyer. Rose's cancer returns and she dies. Hurley goes mad and returns to the mental hospital. Locke becomes paralyzed again and commits suicide (that is the obituary that Jack reads on the plane).
6. Jack, believing that all of this is his fault, goes into a deep depression and becomes a drunk and a junkie.
7. Sometime next season Jack, perhaps with Desmond's help, finds a way to go back in time to 2004 and this time, destroys the sat phone. The next three years are spent finding a way off the island that doesn't tip off the bad guys.

I have no idea how Christian Sheppard being alive in 2007 fits in with this, but I don't believe that TPTB would introduce that into this episode for no reason.

At first I thought the last flashback/forward scene was actually a flashback, and that Jack and Kate new each other from before but promised not to acknowledge each other ever again for unknown reasons. But the whole hero "twice" thing, and the golden tickets, and Jack always traveling through air. It has to be a flashforward.

As far as Christian Sheppard, I think that was just a rhetorical question. Meaning, "Go see if my dad is more drunk than I am. Oh wait! He's not here anymore." Christian's alcohol problem led to his demise. Whether it was losing himself as a doctor, or losing his life.

Now, if it was a flashback, it's just the writers way of adding more suspense and creating more craze in our brains. The whole "I love you" thing could add to the flashback theory. Of how Jack and Kate have had a past. But that's a bit of a stretch.

But all I have to say is...Jack was sporting an awesome beard!

Let me start off by saying that I really don't want the "flash forward" we saw of Jack tonight to be true, as it was suuuuper depressing.
I hate to say this, but the flash forwards are real, not a possibility or alternate reality, as many others have suggested. In the "Answers" episode/interview w/ Lindelof and Cuse, Cuse describes (at about the 6:15 mark) the show as a mosaic, with various tiles that are revealed along the way. The tiles are pieces of the past (flashbacks, obviously), the present (on the island), and the FUTURE(the flash forwards)
It makes sense that we're halfway through the show, with three seasons finished and that there are three more to go. The format of the show is changing from flashbacks to flash forwards. <spoiler>We've already seen about all of the flashbacks that we're going to. After all, this episode has been referred to as "the game changer."
Like I said, I wish that the glimpse of the future we saw last night was not real, but I'm afraid it is.

I'm not sure how I feel about the flash forward. As awesome as Foxys performance was it's kind of like a lot of people said...depressing. I think one of the main themes running throughout the series as a whole has been the idea of the Island being a blank slate (Tabula Rasa) and a chance to start afresh and a shot at redemption.

Jack whether you love or hate him is the main hero of the show. To see him escaping the island and basically becoming his father does not spell redemption for me. Or is this the cost?

Has Jack sacrificed himself in a way? He suffers every day whilst the people he got off the Island (like Kate) have a fresh start and have found redemption.

I also remember what Darlton said in the last official podcast. That a plan by Jack that worked (which this one did...eventually) would have horrible personal repurcussions for him. Which it has shown it ultimately will.

There were many instances tonight of dialogue along the lines of "You werent supposed to do that". Is the future already shifting? Or is it as Desmond sees. The future is set in stone.

The question now is...is this a future that can be stopped. Is it a future that can be changed. Is there light at the end of the tunnel. Is there hope? Can you change fate/destiny?

Lost dealing with the big questions again :D

He was using a Razor Phone. All of the prior flashback scenes feature older cell phone models or ones that were in existence prior to 2004.


THANK YOU!!!!!!! THAT IS THE FIRST THING I THOUGHT OF WHEN THE FIRST SCENE PLAYED OF HIM USING HIS PHONE. I'M NOT CRAZY!!

.....
do NONE of you have any faith in Jack?
i think what we saw was a flash forward...but not the end of our story.
I believe our losties will overcome this and make it back to the island.
Where Jack is (in the fash forward) is a dark place; but not where
TPTB intend to leave him finally.

:cool:

I'm still rolling this one around in my little pea brain. I can see both sides too.

Jack telling the chief of surgery to go up find his dad (paraphrased) makes me want to think it's past, since TPTB have so emphatically stated that Christian Shephard is dead. I know that Jack was doped up at the time he said it, but you'd have to be seriously out of it to not remember your father is dead.

Obviously, Kate being there indicates a flash foward, as does the mention of the island and him wanting to go back there. If this is a flashback to before the island then it sort of makes that scene in the pilot where Kate tells Jack her name, sort of out of whack. I suppose that you could argue that they were pretending not to know each other for the benifit of everyone else, but nobody else was around when she told him her name.

I'm so torn, I don't know what to think.

My third option is that they are in an alternate time altogether. One where Jack's father doesn't die, but is apparently still a drunk. Possibly Desmond flipping the fail safe switch last season changed some crucial events.

Oh this is making me dizzy.



It's almost pretty certain that this was supposed to be a flash forward. We know his dad is dead. all the clues point towards this being in the future. I'm sure it was Sawyer in the coffin. Rewatch the episode. I swear this is what happened. In last season finale they showed real time off the island for the FIRST TIME, this time they showed the future for the FIRST TIME. IT MAKES SENSE. (at least to me) They had to do something unprecedented. That's what they do in the finales.

There's evidence to a time loop here. This is way too complicated to just be a simple, straight flashforward. As previous posts state, Kate is still a fugitive, people go around as if the crash never happened and Jack says, "I'm sick of lying". Something real fishy in the water is going on.

I think the thing with Jack's dad was just some doped up rambling. Remember, when he was in that store trying to get more pills and had a prescription signed by Christian Shepard, he told the lady working the counter that he was out of town and when she picked up the phone to call he just said forget it and walked out. Leads me to believe he was forging his dead father's name.

The coffin scene has me REALLY tearing my hair out. I can think of any number of possible people who could be in it.

If they do forwardFlashes for the rest of the series, we can label this episode as when the show jumped the shark. It'll kill it. This concept was already attempted on a crappy show called The Nine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nine_%28TV_series%29), and it was lame.

It gives away too much just by merely knowing Jack doesn't die, nor Kate. Anytime a gun is pointed at them, we know they won't get shot. Anytime Kate makes eyes at Jack, we know it won't lead to anything. Things like that. It just ruins the story.

I hated this episode. But I loved Sayid snapping the guy's neck with his legs!!!! I dare say Sayid could take Jack Bauer.

He was using a Razor Phone. All of the prior flashback scenes feature older cell phone models or ones that were in existence prior to 2004.

I caught that too. I thought it was weird. Maybe a mistake, but we find out it wasn't.

Damon and Carlton Told Kristen at e-online tonight after the Show. That the ending was "left up to Interpretation " then said they would go into radio silence for next season after the whole spoilers mess.
Up to Interpretation?? I guess That means we can make of it all what we will.
I think it's a flash forward. But since Jacks dad is alive. Something went off in the Timeline.
Which also leads me to think What was the point in Charlie Death. If it does not fix things and lead to there rescue. It does not make any sense at all. When does Time change. because at this point in the Island story, Jack still thinks Dad is Dead.
Sometime I wonder if the Writers are throwing storylines at the Wall (And Us) Just to see what will stick!!

I'm going to go with the theory that this is one of several possible outcomes. That something we either saw in the finale (Jacks decision with the phone, hence the comments about Jacks plan coming good on the last podcast) or something that is yet to happen is what causes this future. And that the choices made from here on in determine whether this is the fate that befalls Jack or whether it can be averted.

could the flashback have actually taken place during the present time? everything on the island was actually a flashback?

What I think was interesting was that everyone assumed that the logical and inevitable conclusion to this TV series was going to be that the Losties get rescued. No one even would comprehend that they would get rescued at the end of season 3. In a strange twist, the goal is no longer a way to figure out how to get off the the Island, but how to get back ON. This flash forward totally caught me off guard. I usually have a beat as to what is happening on this show but I finally was fooled. I am so glad I avoided all the spoilers that were out there.

Jack whether you love or hate him is the main hero of the show. To see him escaping the island and basically becoming his father does not spell redemption for me. Or is this the cost?

I think one thing you are forgetting that the story isn't over yet. This may be part of Jack's story. Maybe his redemption or growth doesn't happen on his first trip to the Island. It's probably the reaosn he needs to get back.


Just a brilliant job by the writers. Now hopefully the haters will stop giving them poop.

You're all too brilliant! Everything I had thought of has already been posted. Blah

Still...on the island Jack had a LOT of grey in his beard, more so than I really remember before. HIs off island flashbacks didn't really have any grey.

With dad being alive, and no one questioning him, I have this sneaking suspicion it's something that occured before they got there. I can't reconcile the "golden ticket" which sounds like something an airline would give crash survivors as part of a PR campaign.... Bahski

Count me as firmly entrenched in the “definitely a flash forward” camp. And since this has been referred to as a game changer… I would expect that we’ll get flash forwards of all the main characters (who’s pasts have been mostly resolved) form here on out. I don’t know why people are so upset with this. All it means is that some (maybe all?) of the 815 survivors getting off the island is not the intended end of the main story arc. All that said, I don’t necessarily think that what happened on the island in this episode guarantees their immediate rescue either… nor do I ever think that the show will stop “taking place” on the island.

FWIW, I really enjoy this brand of story telling. Coming at the chronology from different directions keeps mystery and suspense at the forefront. We don’t understand everything we’re seeing, what the characters’ motivations are, how certain things can be possible given the pieces of the story we do know etc… etc… You know, all the stuff that makes Lost interesting to watch.

I’m not a big fan of time loops… I think the concept will play a roll in the story, but only up to a point. As in, some of the characters will continue to have an idea about what the future could look like (a la Desmond’s flashes, Locke’s dreams etc…) and others will try their hardest to change the present situation without any regard for what repercussions that might have on the foreseen future (a la Desmond constantly trying to save Charlie, Jack trying to get them off the island at any cost etc…).

I DON’T believe the show would remain “watchable” to the run of the mill viewer if they start introducing entire alternate realities that are constantly shifting based on the actions of the characters in another time… I think people obsessed with some variation of this theory make the show WAY more complicated than it actually is. And are setting themselves up for a big disappointment in how the show finally concludes.

Is it possible that this is the second time they are on the island? So that maybe the flashbacks were flashbacks, and that somehow Jack and Kate find their way back to the island present day, but their memories of being there before are erased?

When Jack was on the plane in the beginning of the episode, I was under the impression that he was coming back from Thailand and still moping over the end of his marriage. The Kate at the end looked like the Kate that was married to the cop.

What I think was interesting was that everyone assumed that the logical and inevitable conclusion to this TV series was going to be that the Losties get rescued. No one even would comprehend that they would get rescued at the end of season 3. In a strange twist, the goal is no longer a way to figure out how to get off the the Island, but how to get back ON. This flash forward totally caught me off guard. I usually have a beat as to what is happening on this show but I finally was fooled. I am so glad I avoided all the spoilers that were out there.



I think one thing you are forgetting that the story isn't over yet. This may be part of Jack's story. Maybe his redemption or growth doesn't happen on his first trip to the Island. It's probably the reaosn he needs to get back.


Just a brilliant job by the writers. Now hopefully the haters will stop giving them poop.


I guess so yea. I really hope this is the case. It does some lend credence to time loop theories too.

Personally, I think it's great.

Think about it: The usual resolution to a story such as this is to end with the rescue. All this stuff in an attempt to get rescued... but Lost changed a long time ago from being solely about being rescued to being about much more. 1.) Supernatural/spiritual on the island. 2.) Science and treachery (Dharma). 3.) The insight of a character's past on their present lives.

Numbers one and two aren't really affected by the flashback/flashforward at all... and at this point, the third can be better exploited by flashing forward, since we know most of the back stories to everyone at this point.

The question, of course, is how a Locke-centric episode, for instance, will be handled... will they flash forward, even if he never leaves the island? (And I think that's a certainty... he's there to stay.)

Anyway count me in the "great move" camp. Besides, they're not rescued yet! If Naomi really is "bad" (as Ben says), there's lots more conflict to come. We only know that they WILL be rescued, not how or by whom.

I think that the choice of the phone call is what had bad repurcussions for the losties and Jack. He needs to go back to the island to correct the timeline maybe? Hence "We weren't supposed to leave"

Could this be the beginning of a big change in the format of the storytelling?
What if starting next season, we won't get anymore info about their past, but about their future off the island?
I think it could work and still mantain the mysteries of their past on the island. A good example would be who was the funeral for...
I think it would be refreshing.
What do you all guys think?

I think it could work, too. But there could still be flashbacks if the story was told off island and the flashbacks were about getting them off. They just wouldn't be pre-island flashbacks as we've scene in the last 3 seasons.

Personally, I'd rather see them as flash forwards. I like the island being central to the epis.

And a little OT - is Lost really not coming back until 08? :eek2:

Not til February 2008!

well...as we are halfway through the series...it would be a good time to do something like that. Personally I would enjoy that.

I'm going on the premise Jack was having flashforwards. It's possible that Jack was just "daydreaming" about the future. Since he was leading the losties to the tower and hence to call for rescue. We know Jack has had a troublesome past. So he may have been free thinking, letting his thoughts/memories run wild. Why after each flashforward we see no reaction from Jack? You'd think if he was remembering things and this popped into his head, why didn't this just stop him in his tracks with a WTF moment look on his face? I agree with a other posters that this maybe one possible outcome if things continue on their present course. We may yet see Jack have another flashforward of same events we saw last night but with changes either slightly or a lot. Then Jack will say to himself hey, "That happened differently the I remembered last time." This might prompt him to change his course of action.

The time loop theory is interesting but difficult to pull off. If these flashforwards are of the future or the present with the island stuff in the past then we loose any sense of suspense. As one poster put it, If someone threaten Jack or Kate we wont care too much because we know they will live.

After seeing this episode I was thinking how Gilligan's Island ended. Remember...they all ended back on the same island as before.

It's not clear to me whether Jack was actually experiencing this flash-forward. Was it a kind of vision? A fantasy? A speculation?

He *looked* like he was experiencing it - with the cut scenes between his serious facial expression as he hiked towards the radio tower, and the events of the flash-forward. However, I don't know really, subjectively, what that would have felt like psychologically.

If he *wasn't* subjectively experiencing it, though, what value did the flash-forward have? If it's a "fixed" timeline event - i.e. something that is "pre-ordained" to happen, and if it's unchnaged, then I suppose there would be no point in him actually consciously knowing about it. It would just torment him, especially with how negative it was.

If it was a *possible* future - i.e. one that he could change by his own actions - then it would make sense for him to experience it (be aware of it), because how could he change his actions otherwise?

Definitely flash forward. And if all the evidence of the "flash" itself doesn't convince you, how about the name of the funeral parlor being an anagram for "flash forward"?

In "The Answers" (the special that was on before the finale) Damon and Carlton say that they will show you the past, present, and future of the characters in order to tell the story. I can definitely seeing this be Jack's future, and realizing that he has nothing left in the real world to live for (as Ben points out).

I'm going to go with the theory that this is one of several possible outcomes. That something we either saw in the finale (Jacks decision with the phone, hence the comments about Jacks plan coming good on the last podcast) or something that is yet to happen is what causes this future. And that the choices made from here on in determine whether this is the fate that befalls Jack or whether it can be averted.

I agree. We saw a flash-forward of Jack's life, asif he was rescued at that point in time(going to the radio tower) from the island. I think that every day they stay there, they are changing their futures, and we'll get to see how the things they do on the island, will effect their lives off the island.

I haven't read through this entire thread, but did anyone else consider that the on-island events in the finale were actually the flashbacks, and Bearded Jack was the one having them (instead of the other way around). The episode begins with Bearded Jack on a plane, then after the scene ends we hear the typical flashback sound effect and we go to the island.

The game-changer was the shift in the perspective of the viewers from watching things that happened in 2004 or before to watching things happening in, or about, 2007 and flashing back to 2004 and onward. This is a huge risk on the writers part because it shifts our focus to 'now' and what happens from this point in time onward rather than what happens on the island. Jack's insistence that they 'werent supposed to leave/we have to go back' changes the entire emphasis of the show.
I don't like it at all. I hated seeing Jack in that condition, even if he can eventually redeem himself (maybe). But how can going back to the island do anything, particularly, as Jack said, if it kills all the other passengers. Right now, he's completely around the bend and I don't see how the writers can redeem him/themselves without resorting to some ridiculous butterfly-effect storyline.
We've completely changed horses in mid-stream, IMO, and I don't care for it.

Oldwiz

Here is a noodle baker...

What if the whole first 3 seasons have all been flashbacks to their time on the island?

ack......runs out of the room screaming......:eek2:

Ok I came back to say, there are some fantastic ideas in this thread. I don't think that next season will be off island either...I don't think anyone wants to see that yet and it would negate the need for flashbacks and forwards I think which is one of the main devices of the show. I think that after Jack answers the call these mysterious people come and might be Dharma or might not but I think they will be bad and the losties will team up with the others. Some others have said the same in other threads but I don't remember where.

I think there was mention in one of the podcasts or something that maybe there are other others or something to that effect.

I also like the idea that this is the second time they are on the island but don't remember the first...this would lend credence to the flash forward occurring when it did. Jack has a distant memory all of a sudden but doesn't fully realize the impact until after he makes the call. It would have helped if we'd seen his reaction after that last scene in the future with Kate. There are some great movies with this kind of theme - one of them being Dark City...

Oh and The Nine actually had flashbacks - it was about a bank robbery gone wrong and showed the lives of the survivors afterwards but used flashbacks to show what happened in the bank. I didn't think it was terrible but I stopped watching after the first few weeks. They tried to use the same devices as Lost with everything being totally mysterious and the survivors all acting weird after but the audience had to piece together what happened in the bank as it wasn't shown in chronological order.

I opened a thread dealing with this issue too. I don't know if it has been merged. Anyways, I believe from now on we are not gonna get anymore flashbacks, they are all gonna be flashforwards, like this one.
Of course, we are gonna know who get rescued and who doesn't. But we are not gonna learn how they get there until the last season.

I don't necessarily think the flashbacks are gone for good in favor of flash-forwards (although that does seem to be the popular opinion at the moment). I think there's agood chance the story will be set in the off-island present (picking up after TTLG's final scene) with flashbacks to the period between Jack's calling the freighter and the beginning of last night's flash forward.


DLKD-

I haven't read through this entire thread, but did anyone else consider that the on-island events in the finale were actually the flashbacks, and Bearded Jack was the one having them (instead of the other way around). The episode begins with Bearded Jack on a plane, then after the scene ends we hear the typical flashback sound effect and we go to the island.
I'm going to have to go back and rewatch, because I was just about to post that the flashback sound effect was not in evidence last night. I don't remember hearing it at all. If it was there, it certainly lends credence to the idea that 2007 is "now" and 2004 is in the past, looking back. Otherwise, I think Stefanie is asking the right questions:
It's not clear to me whether Jack was actually experiencing this flash-forward. Was it a kind of vision? A fantasy? A speculation?

He *looked* like he was experiencing it - with the cut scenes between his serious facial expression as he hiked towards the radio tower, and the events of the flash-forward. However, I don't know really, subjectively, what that would have felt like psychologically.

If he *wasn't* subjectively experiencing it, though, what value did the flash-forward have? If it's a "fixed" timeline event - i.e. something that is "pre-ordained" to happen, and if it's unchnaged, then I suppose there would be no point in him actually consciously knowing about it. It would just torment him, especially with how negative it was.

If it was a *possible* future - i.e. one that he could change by his own actions - then it would make sense for him to experience it (be aware of it), because how could he change his actions otherwise?
I figured out early on that what we were seeing was Jack off the island, post crash and all that. So, I kept wondering how Jack was experiencing the scenes that we saw, with the pill popping, Sarah, Kate, etc. And I really just don't feel like he WAS experiencing them. It felt more like the editing was cutting in between two timelines, without the usual reflecting that the central character does during his/her episodes. I didn't think Jack was imagining what it would be like to get off the island, because I just don't see him inventing something so dark as being a drug addict, losing his practice and the two women we have seen him love.

Ok, so then the question is fixed vs. possible future. I honestly don't know on that one. I'm hoping for possible, but guessing it is fixed. Desmond actually SAW the future and it remained accurate in the end. Consistency tells me this should be the same situation.

Finally, Damon and Carlton said in a recent interview that after TTLG aired, we would know the plot-driven reason why there can only be 48 episodes more. I think this is because we have seen the fixed future, and the "current" time on the island is racing towards it.

I hope if TPTB decide to go with Flash Forwards that they still give us Flash Backs. If they are creative enough with the story writing, TPTB could give us an episode that makes us debate with each other whether or not we witnessed a FB or FF.

Just a thought.

Finally, Damon and Carlton said in a recent interview that after TTLG aired, we would know the plot-driven reason why there can only be 48 episodes more. I think this is because we have seen the fixed future, and the "current" time on the island is racing towards it.

Sorry, Jenny but I don't get that part. There is a lot more than 48 'times' between 2004 and 2007. Could you clarify what you mean, please?

Oldwiz

Isn't this the first episode ever in the history of the show that ends with a flashback (flashforward) and not on-island?
I think this is proof of a change in the way they are gonna structure the show next year.
Some people are calling it flashbacks TO the Island. I think it could work both ways: flashforwards from Island to post-rescue or Post-rescue flashbacks to the Island.

Did anyone else notice that in the flashforward, when Jack is being confronted by his fellow doctor about being drunk Jack said something to the effect of "Go & get my father down here & if I'm more drunk than he is..." Is he merely delirious on drugs or is his father actually alive in the future? If his father is actually alive in the future, what does that mean?

Actually, I don't know if I can. :undecide: I was trying to determine what in the finale had a finite time limit, since they stated there would be a plot-driven reason for the show ending after 48 more episodes. That's all I could point to. As for the time left correspond to exactly 48 chunks... I can't really say how that would work. Sorry, I guess I was caught in my rampant speculation!

Didn't "Dave" end in a brief fb of Libby? Still, I like the idea of the show taking place off island and having fb's of being on the island, so to speak.

I don't think this is any proof how season 4 will proceed. we will see that in 2008.

I like the idea of flash-forwarding for many reasons. It gives the writers another angle from which to toss hints at us. For instance, Jack asking for his father in the future is possibly indicative that Christian Shepherd is still alive (empty coffin and all). Or when the funeral director asks Jack if the deceased is a family or friend, Jack says "Neither," which seems to be telegraphing a turn for the worse on Sawyer's part (assuming it's Sawyer's funeral, why else would Jack think that Kate would be interested in going to the funeral?). Then again, Sawyer hasn't been the same since he offed Cooper, so there you go.

You know what else is great about flash-forwards? We might actually get to see a grown up Aaron, or Sun's child. All this talk about how Sun's prego and yet there's no point 'cause we wouldn't see the kid until season 23. Turns out we might be meeting him next year!

Next season takes place post island back in civilization with Flashbacks to the Island. The episodes show all the characters lives (which become train wrecks now that they are home) in the "present' then season 4 ends with some sort of Desmondish change the past event that brings them back to the moment where Jack doesnt answer the phone and they can continue whatever purpose they were supposed to be there for in the first place (ala Locke, "Jack, you are not supposed to answer that")

Some of you guys are thinking about this too much. There is no difference in calling something a "flashback" and a "flashforward". If the first three seasons were flashbacks or forwards, that wouldn't make a lick of difference, because the content is the same.

Lost flashbacks are keen on focusing on one character, not always Island-centric however (Desmond's flashbacks anyone?)

I haven't read through this entire thread, but did anyone else consider that the on-island events in the finale were actually the flashbacks, and Bearded Jack was the one having them (instead of the other way around). The episode begins with Bearded Jack on a plane, then after the scene ends we hear the typical flashback sound effect and we go to the island.

I definitely considered this... but the thing that doesn't make sense about this... is that we see things happening on the island that Jack doesn't see.

If we take the logic of "Lost" flashbacks... we are always experiencing exactly what the character of concentration is experiencing. For example, we are seeing Claire's flashbacks, we don't see Christian & Claire's mom having a conversation without Claire being witness to it.

In this ep, we saw Sayid, Jin & Bernard separately from Jack, so he couldn't have been having a flashback of that because he wasn't there... he could be imagining it... but it would be a cop out to me...

So... then the other obvious choice is:

It's not clear to me whether Jack was actually experiencing this flash-forward. Was it a kind of vision? A fantasy? A speculation?

He *looked* like he was experiencing it - with the cut scenes between his serious facial expression as he hiked towards the radio tower, and the events of the flash-forward. However, I don't know really, subjectively, what that would have felt like psychologically.

If he *wasn't* subjectively experiencing it, though, what value did the flash-forward have? If it's a "fixed" timeline event - i.e. something that is "pre-ordained" to happen, and if it's unchnaged, then I suppose there would be no point in him actually consciously knowing about it. It would just torment him, especially with how negative it was.

If it was a *possible* future - i.e. one that he could change by his own actions - then it would make sense for him to experience it (be aware of it), because how could he change his actions otherwise?

That doesn't make sense either... because how is Jack having a flashback of the future?

I do think that can be easier worked out though... and I don't think it's a coincidence that we saw all we did in "Flashes Before Your Eyes" ... we already know that one character can see the future... who's to say that the hatch explosion didn't set off these capabilities for everyone and that Desmond was the first to fully develop it because he was closer to the hatch?

Perhaps Jack is just realizing that he too can see the future?

I don't know... it sounds sorta "left-field" but I'm really dying to understand the perspective... because it doesn't make sense as is...
100%
ive... because it doesn't make sense as is...

IMHO it was def. a flash forward and Christian is still dead (Jack's comment being either sarcasm, an attempt to pretend his dad was alive so that he could use his dad's signature to get drugs, drunken/stoned ramblings, or all three).
I think the most important question now (as others have mentioned) is if this future is a definite or a possiblity? I hope that it is just a possibility, that if things continue as they are now with a significant change then that will be what occurs. However, if a certain event doesn't take place/changes a new future will emerge (a la Back to the Future Part 2).

I just rewatched it. I realized that through it all it doesn't really seem like Jack is thinking about the flash forward. Usually when there is a flash back it's because something is happening that's related to what is going on to them on the island and so most of the time they think back (thus a flash back). NO THINKING FORWARD

If this continues into Season 4, then perhaps the flash forwards will tell the off Island story while the real time story tells the On Island story, both converging to the resue.

This is how I think it will work.

The Losties who got off the Island after the rescue will be living in real time 2007 - 2010 (something like that).

These rescued Losties will have flashbacks about how they get rescued, what has happened in their lives since they got off the island, etc. All stuff that will lead into how Jack, Kate, Person in Coffin have gotten to where they are.

The Jack in the flash forward was actually having a flashback to his last day on the island, as we know he misses being there by the end of the episode.

Also, in case anyone wonders how Jack could have flashbacks about events that he wasn't apart of on the Island (Charlie in the Looking Glass, Locke & Walt), I just think that this was a middle ground episode for switching the real time of the Island to the real time of our world. So half of this episode's island time is real time and half is flashback.

Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island.

If this continues into Season 4, then perhaps the flash forwards will tell the off Island story while the real time story tells the On Island story, both converging to the resue.

There are a number of ways they could do it, depending on the content of the story that they have left to tell. My first thoughts were, "We went through the Looking Glass" and now we are back in present time. I was substituting "TV" for "Looking Glass". That is to say that the Lost tale will now be told in present day with flashbacks to what happened on the island. I got the idea that Jack is in no way finished with the island and that he, Kate, and whoever came off the island with them will try to get back and also I got the feeling that not everyone came off the island and that people still need rescued. Maybe it isn't even that people need rescued, but Jack needs to do something else.

Nonetheless, it may not turn out this way. My first thought was that it would help explain Walt's growth and help to tell his story. Also, if it is done in this style where we have "flashforwards" they really wouldn't be flashforwards at all, but the island story would be one big flashback.

Either way, I'm game....UH DUH!

CF

I agree about this
"Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island"

I agree about this
"Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island"


This seems to be the only explanation at the moment as to why she would not be in prison , unless she got away with it ??

But if the did the rest of the show with the island action as flashbacks i think it would be to problematic because you either have to only show jack and kate (Which would get old) Or you would have to show the fate of more of the survivors which would kill any tension in future episodes on what happens to them. for example, if they let it out that kate and sawyer are together now it would destroy any tension between the 2 of them and also any tension if sawyer gets kidnapped or his life is threatened on the island again

But if the did the rest of the show with the island action as flashbacks i think it would be to problematic because you either have to only show jack and kate (Which would get old) Or you would have to show the fate of more of the survivors which would kill any tension in future episodes on what happens to them. for example, if they let it out that kate and sawyer are together now it would destroy any tension between the 2 of them and also any tension if sawyer gets kidnapped or his life is threatened on the island again

Well, I think the whole point is that now the real world is like the island, so we'll gradually see where our main cast is at in their lives, and they will flashback to not just the island, but also points in the real world (re establishing themselves, having to lie about any supernatural occurrences on the island that people in the real world would not believe, seeing loved ones (maybe Claire will visit Liam, Desmond and Penelope reuniting),etc.).

And to cover stuff on the island, we'll get Dharma Initiative folk and Hostiles taking us into a further exploration of the islands secrets.

EDIT - And just to be clear, we probably won't see Sawyer getting captured on the Island or anything like that. Instead, I think all the remaining survivors are indeed rescued and taken off the Island, back to civilization, but what Ben has said, and what Locke truly believes, that they are meant to be on the Island, will become a major theme and getting back will be Jack's mission.

The rescue, the island secrets, who stays and who goes, will all probably be revealed very slowly. They know how to draw things out on this show. :biggrin:

There are a number of ways they could do it, depending on the content of the story that they have left to tell. My first thoughts were, "We went through the Looking Glass" and now we are back in present time. I was substituting "TV" for "Looking Glass". That is to say that the Lost tale will now be told in present day with flashbacks to what happened on the island. I got the idea that Jack is in no way finished with the island and that he, Kate, and whoever came off the island with them will try to get back and also I got the feeling that not everyone came off the island and that people still need rescued. Maybe it isn't even that people need rescued, but Jack needs to do something else.

Nonetheless, it may not turn out this way. My first thought was that it would help explain Walt's growth and help to tell his story. Also, if it is done in this style where we have "flashforwards" they really wouldn't be flashforwards at all, but the island story would be one big flashback.

Either way, I'm game....UH DUH!

CF
That is one of three posabilities I have been thinking about, the other two are that it was a one time thing, or that we will be getting flashforwards to show what happens after they leave the island. Ok let's star with idea number two, a one time thing. I was thinking that perhaps they only did this once, just to compare how desperate Jack is to get off the island while at the same time showing us how desperate he will be to get back. Then there is theory number three wch is that instead of devote a season or whatever to what happens to everyone after they get off the island we will simply be getting the flashforwards from now on. As for the loss of suspension, instead of wanting to know if they will get off the island alive, we will be wanting to know how they got off the island or how the dead people die.


Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island.

I agree about this
"Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island"
Yeah, that seems like a pretty good possibility to me too.

There must be reason that no one recognized him as one of the Oceanic 815 survivors. I also thought it strange that people would say, "Hey, it's the hero doctor!' and not "Hey, it's an 815 survivor!"But how long has it been since the rescue? Who would really remember what the survivors looked like, even if there was a lot of press coverage immediately afterwards?

Also, he had a beard.
100%
I'm going to go with the theory that this is one of several possible outcomes. I think that would be a cop-out. The entire flash forward would mean nothing if they were showing us something that doesn't actually occur (and isn't a premonition or dream). What would be the point? Just teasing us?

Unless Future Jack does something which affects the island in the past...

I like the idea of flash-forwarding for many reasons. It gives the writers another angle from which to toss hints at us. For instance, Jack asking for his father in the future is possibly indicative that Christian Shepherd is still alive (empty coffin and all). Or when the funeral director asks Jack if the deceased is a family or friend, Jack says "Neither," which seems to be telegraphing a turn for the worse on Sawyer's part (assuming it's Sawyer's funeral, why else would Jack think that Kate would be interested in going to the funeral?). Then again, Sawyer hasn't been the same since he offed Cooper, so there you go.

You know what else is great about flash-forwards? We might actually get to see a grown up Aaron, or Sun's child. All this talk about how Sun's prego and yet there's no point 'cause we wouldn't see the kid until season 23. Turns out we might be meeting him next year!

About Walt, I think this is the only way in which they could address his aging.

I hope if TPTB decide to go with Flash Forwards that they still give us Flash Backs. If they are creative enough with the story writing, TPTB could give us an episode that makes us debate with each other whether or not we witnessed a FB or FF.

Just a thought.

That would be even more confusing for us!!!!
They should put a subtilte at the begining stating" WARNING WHAT YOU ARE ABOUT TO SEE IS A FLASHBACK/FLASHFORWARD.

I agree that it was a flashforward and Jack is just drugged up or being sarcastic when he mentions his father. when he mentions checking to see, the chief of surgery looks at him like he's nuts. I think he just forged the prescription and that is why he didn't want the pharmacist to call his office.

I have no problem with flashforwards adn frankly I think it would be preferable to 3 more seasons of fighting with the Others and living in tents. But, this show is not going to please everyone and end with all of us feeling like it was played out the way it "should" be.

Ok, I haven't read through all of the post in this thread so maybe someone else meantioned it, but since it's late and I have to work in the morning I'm going to put my 2 cents in now and catch up tomorrow at work...
Did anyone else notice that Sarah was pregeant? I noticed it as you went to leave out the door, she turned and put her hand on her stomach and she appeared to be about 6 months pregeant. That one caught me a bit since the last time we saw her in one of Jack's flashback to the time when they were going through the divorce she was only dating that other guy and very unpregeant!

So if Jack's dad is alive, does that mean that the island brought him back? And if so then why are all the Dharma folks skeletons?

Ok, good night. I'm going to bed before my head explodes. I just hate dealing with alternate realites.

I truly believe what we saw wasnt a TRUE flashforward but a different spin on a Desmond type Flash . This flashforward we saw are the events to come if jack continues with the decisions being made on the island. Now with desmond knowing about the boat situation this will all be changed completely in my view

Ok I can answer the 48 eps question. They are doing 16 eps per season, think about it if the show starts in Feb and goes through til May - that's 16 eps to the end of May. This was mentioned along with the Feb start date. So technically 48 eps is only two seasons stretched out over 3 years.......oh the pain......:frown:

As for the rest, it's hurting my head...I think they will flash whatever but it will still be on the island. I can't remember where I posted this because it's being discussed in a million threads but I think they will have a battle with these new people and maybe band together with the others. Ok I'm tired again because I was on here last night too......geeez this show is ruining sleepy time for me. :)

his dad is dead watch it again it makes perfect sence.

I hope not...I really hope it was a flash into the future, as opposed to just seeing one of Jack's visions...I think everyone would feel cheated, especially since that was the big cliffhanger.

I'm not sure about Jack's dad being alive - it was hard for me to tell if he was just saying it or what the story was. Obviously we're seeing a completely different time and we have no backstory on it so far. As far as time goes - the way I saw this episode is
1. Present time: Jack after having been rescued and having left the island. We see Kate because Jack contacted her. This is a Jack-centric episode about Jack in the present.
2. Flashback time: Jack's memories of what happened on the island and how that has led him to where he is now.

I think Flash Forward is sort of a misnomer because my feeling was that we were seeing Jack as he is now... and he now realizes he wants to go back.. but I wonder how that will change how things are now.. time is all messed up and I'm looking for the next seasons to explain.

ya i really think this is a desmond type thing cause now desmond can go "fix" this with the info given to him either way i will be pleased even if it is a true flash forward should make for interesting story but i dont see how they could sprpread that over 3 more seaons to me as great as this finale and twist was it wa more cut out for end of season 4 or 5 but im sure these guys know what they are doing

its for sure tha future. for some reason, jack is desperately trying to get back to tha island, but with no luck. he tries to convince kate that they have to go back to the island to fix some "mistake". jack is really messed up. he could be delusional, and sick. so sick, he believes his father is alive, when the truth is that christian is still dead. ( in this future), jack is highly medicated, very suicidal, and has no care if he lives or dies. what happend on that island that jack feels is a mistake, and that he is convinced he has to back and fix it.

Jack doesn't think his father is alive. It's a tasteless joke he makes because he doesn't care anymore.

Just look when he goes to get his prescription refilled and the woman says she'll have to call his father, he says don't bother...

Jack doesn't think his father is alive. It's a tasteless joke he makes because he doesn't care anymore.

Just look when he goes to get his prescription refilled and the woman says she'll have to call his father, he says don't bother...


i do agree that is a dark joke, but i think jack is honestly confused. he saw his father alive on that island, and he found his empty casket. maybe he isnt sure, or maybe something else happend w/his father on tha islande, and we just dont know about it yet.

I don't have much to say, but I do think this is a series changing episode... in a GOOD way. Can't wait till season 4.

i do agree that is a dark joke, but i think jack is honestly confused. he saw his father alive on that island, and he found his empty casket. maybe he isnt sure, or maybe something else happend w/his father on tha islande, and we just dont know about it yet.

Yeah, could be that. I just think it's definite that Jack's dad is dead.

- The new doctor says he is the chief of surgery
- Jack's dad was seen dead before they hit the island
- The visions on the island are confirmed by the creators as being the island monster even if the body was missing

his dad is dead watch it again it makes perfect sence.

I respectfully disagree. IMO after leaving the Island, Jack and Kate are thrown into an alternate time-line where Christian is alive. I am also leaving open the possibility under this theory that others who were dead on the Island are now alive, like Charlie. Remember that Jack had his father's body on the plane but after the crash, the coffin was empty. I think this was supposed to signify something important. There are also other differences, most of which we were not shown in the finale.

Also, has anyone else thought that perhaps Jack realized that both Ben and Locke were right and that he wasn't "meant" to rescue the Losties and that his actions in this episode in doing so resulted in the death of everyone on the island except he and Kate? And that is the reason for his downward spiral?

I think he realizes that Ben and Locke were right and that he thinks that if he can get back to the Island he can "correct" his mistakes. Its too simplistic, but think Back to the Future, and of course many Star Trek episodes.

But, doesn't Jack say what he says because his Dad is dead and he knows he can't be fired? A little bit of drunken sarcasm?

I respectfully disagree. IMO after leaving the Island, Jack and Kate are thrown into an alternate time-line where Christian is alive. I am also leaving open the possibility under this theory that others who were dead on the Island are now alive, like Charlie. Remember that Jack had his father's body on the plane but after the crash, the coffin was empty. I think this was supposed to signify something important. There are also other differences, most of which we were not shown in the finale.

Alternate time-lines? I really think you're over thinking it. Christian Shepard is dead. It's a joke, in poor taste, made by Jack.

As I wrote earlier, the other scene in which Jack says not to bother calling his dad about the prescription further supports this.

Alternate time-lines? I really think you're over thinking it. Christian Shepard is dead. It's a joke, in poor taste, made by Jack.

As I wrote earlier, the other scene in which Jack says not to bother calling his dad about the prescription further supports this.

No, not if you consider the obvious fact that Jack, as am M.D. can't write his own prescriptions and if he had a prescription for oxycontin (or whatever the drug was) from his father, he probably forged his father's prescription, and hence would not want his father called.

No, not if you consider the obvious fact that Jack, as am M.D. can't write his own prescriptions and if he had a precription for oxycontin (or whatever the drug was) from his father, he probably forged his father's prescription, and hence would not want his father called.

Well that's what we're supposed to think. However, when we learn at the end of this episode that they are in the future, all these things have new meanings. Honestly, how can you believe Christian Shepherd is alive?

I am so confused but I dont think everyone else on the island dies. I think Desmond races to the beach and tells them about Naomi and her ship. If they all did get off the island I dont think Sawyer and Kate end up together because he seems very different since killing Locke's dad and the way he told Kate let's hope you're not when she mentioned being pregnant. It looked like Kate was pretty well off financially. I will be interesting to say the least how this will all play out. I do think the next 3 season's will focus on Jack and possibly others getting back to the island. I cant see Juliet getting off the island and not being with Jack unless he chose Kate over her and maybe things didnt work out between them, Very confusing!!!!

Well that's what we're supposed to think. However, when we learn at the end of this episode that they are in the future, all these things have new meanings. Honestly, how can you believe Christian Shepherd is alive?

Because I am free to form my own theories and am posting on a board that is dedicated to such theories. Not that every poster here has to show manners in accepting points of view other than their own. :)

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Because I am free to form my own theories and am posting on a board that is dedicated to such theories. Not that every poster here has to show manners in accepting points of view other than their own. :)

Okay, but given the story and background information we have, your theory makes little sense... Yes, Lost is a fantasy show, but once again, given Lost's format, I think it's safe to say that flashes are real life events, as well.

Does everyone have theories like these? I mean I've read that people think Jack is in the coffin, too. Where is the logic?

Okay, but given the story and background information we have, your theory makes little sense... Yes, Lost is a fantasy show, but once again, given Lost's format, I think it's safe to say that flashes are real life events, as well.

Does everyone have theories like these? I mean I've read that people think Jack is in the coffin, too. Where is the logic?

And yet, given your superior logic, I disagree with your theory. Go figure. Its almost like we're on a message board of Lost fanatics who all have our own ability to form opinions. Oh wait.....;)

Just wanna throw this in here real quick, seeing as no one (surprisingly) has posted this yet....

When Kate walks up to Jack at the end of the episode and starts talking to him, there's one line she has that, for me at least, kind of hinted at it definitely being a flash-forward episode.
Kate mentions that she saw Jack on TV, that she saw him pulling people out of burning wreckage. Jack then casually smiles and says, "Old habits." That pretty much spells it out that he and Kate are looking back at their time on the island, and for whatever reason it may be, Jack whole-heartedly believes that they have to go back.

I don't really have a good explanation for some of the other things that were mentioned in this episode (ex. Jack's Dad and whether he's alive or not), at least nothing better than the stuff that's already been said. Guess we'll just have to wait and see what the real story is...

And yet, given your superior logic, I disagree with your theory. Go figure. Its almost like we're on a message board of Lost fanatics who all have our own ability to form opinions. Oh wait.....;)

Well, I never said I had superior logic. I'm just challenging your opinion/ theory. You haven't actually brought anything up that challenges my theory that is substantial that I haven't been able to counter.
100%
Just wanna throw this in here real quick, seeing as no one (surprisingly) has posted this yet....

When Kate walks up to Jack at the end of the episode and starts talking to him, there's one line she has that, for me at least, kind of hinted at it definitely being a flash-forward episode.
Kate mentions that she saw Jack on TV, that she saw him pulling people out of burning wreckage. Jack then casually smiles and says, "Old habits." That pretty much spells it out that he and Kate are looking back at their time on the island, and for whatever reason it may be, Jack whole-heartedly believes that they have to go back.

Absolutely. Great post!

My opinion???

In last season's season finale, we got our very first "Real Time/Off Island" scene with Penny answering the phone from the Portugese Arctic Hatch Monkeys moments after Des turned that fail safe key and breifly revealed the island's secret location.

This year we got our very first "Flash Forward" episode in the season finale...revealing the fact that Jack & Kate actually made it off the island.

Have we seen another "Real Time/Off Island" scene since the season finale last year? Nope...unless you count Des's trippy "course correcting" flashback episode where it appeared he was being communicated to from "real time" people. But I write that off as an anomoly created in his head by being so close to the implosion when he turned that key. It changed him....gave him "premonitions"...and possible changed the way he remembers his own past. But they were definetly was NOT scenes happening "off the island" in "concurrent time". It was all in his head, IMO.

Now...will we see another "flash forward" episode next season...Possible...but I feel it's very doubtful...for one simple reason...They give too much information away!

Part of the fun of watching Lost is wondering who and when the next Lostie will die on the island. For now, we can rest assured it won't be Jack or Kate. Showing us characters interacting AFTER their island experience removes any mystery.

I think TPTB like to use the Season Finales to give us a new perspective we never get during the normal course of the show. Sure, they play with the formula from time to time...giving us all "on island" flashback eppys like 3 minutes, The Other 48 Days, and The Brig...and I think those will continue moving forward. But I think now that WE know to expect an unusual "twist" in the normal storytelling technique during the finales, that TPTB may never show us another FF...or RT scene....or they may come up with something even MORE clever.

But I wouldn't count on too many more FF eppys arriving until 2009 or so.

As for the OP's speculation on why Jack & Kate didn't seem to communicate too much after their rescue....there are a million reasons why they may not be close. Who knows? Perhaps next season...or the one after that...Jack & Sawyer butt heads and Jack ends up killing Sawyer...or allowing the Others to kill him to save the rest of the Losties as he chose to do with Sayid, Jin & Benard last night.

Or perhaps, the Losties rescue came with a caveat...that they are to NEVER talk about what REALLY went on during their stay on the island...not even to each other...and they are still being monitored by those enforcing this caveat. That's probablly the more likely scenario...it would explain why Jack said he was tired of lying all the time...and why Kate isn't in prison (as a condition of her silence, her step-dad's murder charges were thrown out?).

There's a ton more....but I think it goes to what Locke & Ben were trying to tell Jack as he stood there holding that ringing satellite phone....

That, while it may seem like a God forsaken place, the island is where they were all getting their pathetic lives back in order...Locke could walk...Rose was cured...Sawyer put his demons to rest...Charlie got sober...Sun & Jin were able to conceive and strengthen their marriage...Kate no longer had to run anywhere...Hurley broke his curse of bad luck...and even became a hero while doing so...and so on.

Jack realized this once he re-entered society...after all the "hero" talk faded...that he was in a happier place back on the island...with something to fix every 5 minutes...and people looking up to him as a leader...something his father instilled in him that he would NEVER be. Once he got back...there was no more to fix...and no one to lead...

Then...possibly...the Losties death toll started rising in the real world...people he cared about ON the island began dying mysteriously...possibly as punishment for not making good on the caveat of keeping the island's dark secrets...a secret. Or, perhaps, they had all found themselves as miserable as Jack had become...that the island's magical "healing" powers, both physical and meta-physical, had elluded them once they got "home". We know Jack visited SOMEONE he cared about at the funeral home...Jack seemed to feel that it was his fault...possibly going back to that satellite phone call he made back on the island. (Loved the HOFFS / DRAWLER anagram...FLASH FOWARD).

But Kate seemed so indifferent...she definetly didn't seem too disheveled...or down and out as Jack did...and it also seems she didn't return to a life of running...saying she had to get back...that "he" would be wondering where she was. kate seems to have put the horrors of the island behind her....possibly because she hasn't lost anyone she truly cared about yet...For now, she's comfortable with all the lying...and she has way more to lose by breaking the caveat of her rescue...a free trip to jail on murder charges.

I think when we DO get to see another FF eppy...it will be Kate finding out about the death of someone she DID love back on the island...and how her life unravels after that. I think Kate will come to realize that Jack was right...they DID need to go back to Craphole Island.

We'll see...speaking of Flash Forward...is it February 2008 yet?

Namaste.

I just watched the pharmacy clip again. Jack was trying to get a script filled in 2007 (or so we assume from the newspaper date-line). He was trying to get a script filled written by his "dead" father three years after his death in what I presume is a pharmacy that would be familiar with his prescriptions. No concrete evidence, but once again, I would assume that the pharmacist would know that Christian is dead, especially since she moves to phone Christian's office by actually picking up the phone. If it had actually been three years since his death, I assume that she would have picked up on Christian's expired license number from three years ago. Pharmacists here can correct me, but I assume they are ripe to pick up on such things.

I just watched the pharmacy clip again. Jack was trying to get a script filled in 2007 (or so we assume from the newspaper date-line). He was trying to get a script filled written by his "dead" father three years after his death in what I presume is a pharmacy that would be familiar with his prescriptions. No concrete evidence, but once again, I would assume that the pharmacist would know that Christian is dead, especially since she moves to phone Christian's office by actually picking up the phone. If it had actually been three years since his death, I assume that she would have picked up on Christian's expired license number from three years ago. Pharmacists here can correct me, but I assume they are ripe to pick up on such things.

Written by his father or by Jack just claiming it's his father...

Why would the pharmacist know Christian is dead? She doesn't work for the hospital... My pharmacist doesn't know anything about my doctor's personal life... I mean, the pharmacist would have had to know Christian had a son too... She moved to call the hospital, and the number was probably on the prescription that Jack wrote himself, but tried to pass off as his dad's.

Well, I think the whole point is that now the real world is like the island, so we'll gradually see where our main cast is at in their lives, and they will flashback to not just the island, but also points in the real world (re establishing themselves, having to lie about any supernatural occurrences on the island that people in the real world would not believe, seeing loved ones (maybe Claire will visit Liam, Desmond and Penelope reuniting),etc.).

And to cover stuff on the island, we'll get Dharma Initiative folk and Hostiles taking us into a further exploration of the islands secrets.

EDIT - And just to be clear, we probably won't see Sawyer getting captured on the Island or anything like that. Instead, I think all the remaining survivors are indeed rescued and taken off the Island, back to civilization, but what Ben has said, and what Locke truly believes, that they are meant to be on the Island, will become a major theme and getting back will be Jack's mission.

The rescue, the island secrets, who stays and who goes, will all probably be revealed very slowly. They know how to draw things out on this show. :biggrin:


wow...I don't know if I'd watch that show...sounds pretty boring...there's enough elongated 'who lives who dies' who wins who loses shows on tv

in support of the theories of potential time travel/alternate time lines we have a HUGE piece of evidence "Flashes Before Your Eyes"

What's the episodes purpose and context if it is the only example of time travel in the entire show...seems kind of silly to me...especially when TPTB referred to it as being extremely important...

wow...I don't know if I'd watch that show...sounds pretty boring...there's enough elongated 'who lives who dies' who wins who loses shows on tv

in support of the theories of potential time travel/alternate time lines we have a HUGE piece of evidence "Flashes Before Your Eyes"

What's the episodes purpose and context if it is the only example of time travel in the entire show...seems kind of silly to me...especially when TPTB referred to it as being extremely important...

Sounds pretty exciting to me. They'll go through difficult times after leaving and all want to go back. It's a continuing mystery.

Written by his father or by Jack just claiming it's his father...

Why would the pharmacist know Christian is dead? She doesn't work for the hospital... My pharmacist doesn't know anything about my doctor's personal life... I mean, the pharmacist would have had to know Christian had a son too... She moved to call the hospital, and the number was probably on the prescription that Jack wrote himself, but tried to pass off as his dad's.

Or his death, three years later. Can I have the number of your pharmacist? :grin:

wow...I don't know if I'd watch that show...sounds pretty boring...there's enough elongated 'who lives who dies' who wins who loses shows on tv

in support of the theories of potential time travel/alternate time lines we have a HUGE piece of evidence "Flashes Before Your Eyes"

What's the episodes purpose and context if it is the only example of time travel in the entire show...seems kind of silly to me...especially when TPTB referred to it as being extremely important...

Ditto that. TPTB have given so many clues to this that if you don't like time travel/alternate timelines/causality loops or "course corrections" on a universal level, I'd say hang it up now. We're getting there. I'd say like it or not, Butterfly Effect and Star Trek:TNG - Yesterday's Enterprise might be some good things to watch some time in the next seven months or so.

Ditto that. TPTB have given so many clues to this that if you don't like time travel/alternate timelines/causality loops or "course corrections" on a universal level, I'd say hang it up now. We're getting there. I'd say like it or not, Butterfly Effect and Star Trek:TNG - Yesterday's Enterprise might be some good things to watch some time in the next seven months or so.

Exactly. Gene Roddenberry thought of all of this 40 years ago.

Or his death, three years later. Can I have the number of your pharmacist? :grin:

Honestly, you're nitpicking... how many doctors do you think there are in Los Angeles? How many pharmacies?

You don't believe a pharmacist wouldn't know about a doctor, but you do believe in the dead coming back to life. Okay!:)

Honestly, you're nitpicking... how many doctors do you think there are in Los Angeles? How many pharmacies?

You don't believe a pharmacist wouldn't know about a doctor, but you do believe in the dead coming back to life. Okay!:)

Well see if you followed my logic, it wouldn't exactly be the dead coming back to life. But let's continue to follow your logic that a pharmacist would fill a script from a 3 year old dead physician. Get ready, get set, Go! :hypocrit:

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Sounds pretty exciting to me. They'll go through difficult times after leaving and all want to go back. It's a continuing mystery.


mmmm...difficult times...like the people on "Gray's Anatomy" and "Desperate Housewives" and "Law and Order" and "SVU"...TV is full of people going through difficult times. The show will still revolve around the island...I promise.

No way in heck ABC gives the show 3 more years if it begins a 'normal' drama.

Well see if you followed my logic, it wouldn't exactly be the dead coming back to life. But let's continue to follow your logic that a pharmacist would fill a script from a 3 year old dead physician. Get ready, get set, Go! :hypocrit:

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You know you can debate with me without actually having to attack me personally.;)

What was your logic again? That it's an alternate time-line? Okay...

I never said a pharmacist would fill a 3 year old dead physician's prescription. Jack had a prescription he wrote himself, that he then claimed his dad wrote... he wanted his drugs!

Obviously, I can think outside the box and that's why I love this show. However, I think that there are certain theories that make absolutely no sense and that can be discounted with logical discussion. Even in fantastical settings, there are rules established in those world that you follow. We know that people can die. We have no reason to believe there are alternate time-lines other than you creating a theory from your head. We do have, however, have a great amount of actual evidence from teh show to prove my opinion to make sense.

mmmm...difficult times...like the people on "Gray's Anatomy" and "Desperate Housewives" and "Law and Order" and "SVU"...TV is full of people going through difficult times. The show will still revolve around the island...I promise.

No way in heck ABC gives the show 3 more years if it begins a 'normal' drama.

Oh I have no doubt the Island will continue to be a major player... However, I believe that off the island will be a great player, as well.

And let's face it, all the past flashbacks have been about the character's difficulty before reaching the island, no? That's what drama is. Characters dealing with problems.

Now I think we'll have the same formula, but from our time flashing back to on and off the island and what has happened to the characters.

we know that Jack and Kate have been rescued, we also know that Jack would do anything to get off the island, like when he did Ben's surgery. What if what they were lying about everyone else being dead so they could get off the island, just a thought.

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Anyway, I think that the real time is indeed 2007 and the rest of the series' real time events will probably lead up to 2010, while we flashback to the events of 2003 - 2007. Something like that...

Anyway, I think that the real time is indeed 2007 and the rest of the series' real time events will probably lead up to 2010, while we flashback to the events of 2003 - 2007. Something like that...

Are you willing to admit to the possibility of more than one future reality? As in there is more than one possibility for the future of 2007 depending upon what happened on the Island?

Are you willing to admit to the possibility of more than one future reality? As in there is more than one possibility for the future of 2007 depending upon what happened on the Island?

No. I think the off the island setting we saw at the end of the finale is definite. The new story is how we got to where we are (on and off the island in flashbacks) and where we will go (will we get back to the island, where is everyone else who got off the island?)...

No. I think the off the island setting we saw at the end of the finale is definite. The new story is how we got to where we are (on and off the island in flashbacks) and where we will go (will we get back to the island, where is everyone else who got off the island?)...

You are missing the point.

You are missing the point.

Illuminate me.

Illuminate me.

Because from what you have posted so far, it appears that you assume that because we have seen the future in Jack's future-flash, that there is no static or fluidity of time and events.

Simply because we have seen how the future worked out does not mean (in my opinion) that events happening on the island do not influence the future. Hence my theory that Jack is now upset, once he got off of the island, at how things turned out. He was not MEANT to lead the Losties off of the Island, just as Locke and Ben said.

His actions lead to a future that, for many reasons that we do now see, he cannot live with. I hope this makes sense to someone. Its far too complicated for me.

Because from what you have posted so far, it appears that you assume that because we have seen the future in Jack's future-flash, that there is no static or fluidity of time and events.

Simply because we have seen how the future worked out does not mean (in my opinion) that events happening on the island do not influence the future. Hence my theory that Jack is now upset, once he got off of the island, at how things turned out. He was not MEANT to lead the Losties off of the Island, just as Locke and Ben said.

His actions lead to a future that, for many reasons that we do now see, he cannot live with. I hope this makes sense to someone. Its far too complicated for me.

I totally agree with you on those points about his state off the island. I do however disagree about the fluidity. I don't think what happens on the island from here on can influence what we saw at the end of the final. However, what we saw at the end of the final is not the end of the story.

I guess I shouldn't be shocked by a lot of the comments in this thread, but I am and, ban me if you must, but people are grasping at straws because of what they want to happen.

Time is relative to the point at which you exist at. The present is when you exist. The writers have clearly established that the present is the island through the use of the terms flashback and flashforward (the anagram of the Funeral Home's name) In order to flash BACK or FORWARD you have to start at a point that is static, in other words the present, the island.

I was sure people would say Jack was going to go back and try and change the past. This episode wasn't the Star Trek Voyager finale. He isn't Admiral Janeway. There are 48 episodes left. Slowly we are going to see how they get off the island and how it affects their lives afterwards.

Why is Jack so depressed? Why is "our hero" in such a bad state? Out of any event, not everyone is going to be happy. Not everyone is going to have a positive future. The writers demonstrated this by Jack believing they should have stayed on the island and Kate believing they shouldn't have. How ironic is it that the doctor (the socially exalted identity) has the hard life when returning to civilization and the fugitive (the socially looked down upon identity has the good life? The writers simply took Jack's hero complex to the logical fruition. He has no one else to save and he couldn't save everyone, plus he didn't get Kate, why wouldn't he get depressed?

Besides, the flashforward is somewhere in the year 2004+ and Jack is far from dead. There is plenty of time left in his life for him to be redeemed. And yes, maybe he gets back to the island because he wants to, that may be his journey, but remember:

LOST is a story of a plane crash on a mysterious island and how that event changes the lives of the passengers on that plane. They are all going to react differently. Some will die. Some will live. Some will be happy. Some will be sad. Whatever happens, the writers have done something very ambitious with this series and that is shown us the entirety of the characters' live rather than one snippet of "important time" (consider how we know everything about Charlie from childhood to death). The reason they are doing this is think of how unsatisfying it would be to not know what would happen to them after they got off the island. Once again, consider the Voyager finale. The final shot is of Earth. You never know what happens to the characters after they returned home. How did the journey change them/ Was Libby waiting for Harry Kim? Did Starfleet try to study Seven of Nine? What about the Maquis who were absorbed into the crew, were they pardoned (kind of like Kate)? With Voyager, we never learned these answers. With LOST, we will.

In summary:
It's a flashforward. They get rescued. Someone is dead (who we may or may not know yet, my guess is Locke). Jack and Kate aren't together (though it's always possible). Jack is depressed (though that can change).

You expressed what I've been thinking in a far better way than I was able to. Thank you!

Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island.

I agree about this.
Also, I reckon Kate took the identity of one of the dead on 815 so that she could escape prison once getting off the island"

>>Yeah, that seems like a pretty good possibility to me too.

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Wouldn't it have to be someone with no friends or family for Kate to be able to do that? Not to mention it presumes an awful lot of post-rescue goodwill/loyalty on the part of the other Losties. Presumably people are going to want to see "Jenny Smith" or whomever, when the survivors of the crash return......and if it's a big coverup somehow, then whoever is directing it would probably not have Kate choose a crash victim's name, right?

>>Yeah, that seems like a pretty good possibility to me too.

============

Wouldn't it have to be someone with no friends or family for Kate to be able to do that? Not to mention it presumes an awful lot of post-rescue goodwill/loyalty on the part of the other Losties. Presumably people are going to want to see "Jenny Smith" or whomever, when the survivors of the crash return......and if it's a big coverup somehow, then whoever is directing it would probably not have Kate choose a crash victim's name, right?

Yeah, totally. I don't what all the ins and outs of it are, but I do think that whatever best way they could do it, Kate had to assume a new identity, as she had been, and it was someone on the plane.

If that's not the case, I'm sure the writers have whatever the reason is handled.:biggrin:

I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned this... but let's take a look at the bigger picture. (Mind you, only slightly bigger)

The station that Charlie flipped the switch in? Called the Looking Glass. Granted, the girls said it was jamming signal, but was it? Ben lied to everyone else about the station being flooded, so who's to say that he didn't lie to them about what that switch was actually for? A lot of people have theorized that that station was the only true way of getting off the island, even with a sub. So, perhaps, once that switch was turned off, it opened up a rabbit hole. (*grins* Figuratively of course...) And then once you leave the island, you are sucked into Wonderland (figuratively) and things seem like they are normal at first... until you're there a while. Then, you realize everything is all wrong and all you want to do is go back from whence you came.

Alice ponders what the world is like on the other side of a mirror, and to her surprise, is able to pass through to experience the alternate world. -- The beginning of the plot for Through The Looking Glass.

Another interesting footnote about that book is that Alice has two kittens. One white and one black.

ANYWAY, now that I'm back from that little tangent... I DO think it's possible that this is the reality Jack ended up with, but that he also has the possibility of CHANGING it. In truth, I'd love to see season 4 being off-island future Jack going about trying to convince everyone that's left to get back to the island and succeeding, for the most part anyway. The season finale of season 4 ending with them getting back and then trying to figure out how to fix whatever it is that broke. I think it's a simple matter of flipping that switch in the Looking Glass, personally.

And yes, it's just one of a thousand theories. But they've given an awful lot of literary hints to this possibility. I just can't ignore them.

And truthfully, it took me an h