The future we saw through Jack's eyes, is it set in stone or can it be changed? I've seen people on other sites saying both things, and I'd be interested to see what others have to say here!

Personally, I think it is meant to be changed. Locke and Ben, the two most connected to the island, kept telling Jack that making the phone call was a bad decision. Jack obviously made it though, and we saw the future that resulted. But at the same time, thanks to Ben and Locke, we know that's not the 'right' future. That is not what is supposed to happen.

For example, I don't think in the 'right' future, the main character would end up a pill-popping alcoholic. Jack has always been heroic, and he was very much not tonight. And I think that regardless of one's shipping tendencies, Jack and Kate care a lot about each other (as Jack even said tonight) so that even if they weren't together in the future, they would at least be friends. And Kate's wealth felt really off to me too.

And it just doesn't make sense I think from a TV POV to reveal the end of the show right in the middle. If that's the way the future is going to be for the Losties, why bother with the next three seasons? We would know what would happen anyways. And it was really just dark and depressing, so I just hope the future really ends up brighter for them all.

Having the flash forward just be one possible future actually ties in nicely with Desmond and Charlie. Charlie kept fighting his death and he was able to change the future that Desmond originally had seen. He only accepted his death when he knew it would help out and save everyone else. I think with Jack it's the reverse. We know the wrong future and Jack making the phone call was accepting that future and even causing it. For the rest of the show he's going to have to change it back to what it should be. Charlie's whole storyline - showing that the future can be changed - makes a whole lot more sense now to me.

I think it is going to be changed somehow...don't know how...but it will be.

At the airport, Kate told Jack "this can't be changed."

But, I think it can be.

I think it can definitely be changed, otherwise why would Jack want to go back to the island so bad? He knows.

That is the question. I would hate to see such a miserable ending, but on the other hand even if this is the future and it cannot be changed, it can't be the final ending of Lost. We have to find out what happens after that moment as well. The future is not set in stone IMO.

That is the question. I would hate to see such a miserable ending, but on the other hand even if this is the future and it cannot be changed, it can't be the final ending of Lost. We have to find out what happens after that moment as well. The future is not set in stone IMO.

Yeah, I hope the ending isn't so miserable and sad! I just can't see why TPTB would show us anything about the real ending now, only half-way through the series or so.

Here's hoping the real thing ends a bit cheerier! :smile:

Good post, ZoeWashburne, your argument is very convincing.

I think this cliff hanger is a back to the future theme. They will go back through the
time portal and change the future.

I think it can be changed. I think that is the meaning behind Desmond's "visions". I'm wondering if they are effecting their future simultaneously as they live their present lives on the Island??

Either that, or Kate, Jack, and "whoever", will go back to the Island and fix things. Myabe the mysterious "he" was Sawyer and this is one way of saying Kate and Sawyer get together at the end - but when they go back to the Island, it will be Kate and Jack..

Who knows! This flash forward stuff opens a new can of worms!

I thought that this "future" we saw is indeed what happened, and it won't be changed in the sense that they can't erase the facts that conduced them to it. However, when Jack implies he wants to change it, he's just saying 'go back' , physically, to the island, at that moment in time.

The future is fluid. People have choices. It all depends on what they choose to do...or not do.

I thought that this "future" we saw is indeed what happened, and it won't be changed in the sense that they can't erase the facts that conduced them to it. However, when Jack implies he wants to change it, he's just saying 'go back' , physically, to the island, at that moment in time.

:shesaid: I don't want time travel or alternate realities though I think we've jumped the sci-fi shark a long time ago with the smoke monster and the time travel and Jacob so I don't see why not. As a rabid Jack fan, I certainly wouldn't want it erased. The darkness he's in right now is crucial to bringing him back to light and I wouldn't want that lost in his journey.

That is the question. I would hate to see such a miserable ending, but on the other hand even if this is the future and it cannot be changed, it can't be the final ending of Lost. We have to find out what happens after that moment as well. The future is not set in stone IMO.

Let's keep in mind the title of this episode, Through The Looking Glass.

This is A future, but not THE future.

This is a dystopian future and we'll probably spend next year exploring it and why it came to this, how the other characters fared and then in seasons 5/6 what we can do to "go back". I don't think it has to be erased per se. But there's a reason behind Jack's need to go back and I don't think it's as easy as going there to flip a switch and bring Charlie back to life and make everything all better again.

Just some random tidbits from wikipedia about dystopias in fiction (I know the term doesn't apply to the society in which Jack lives in the future, but c'mon... it's a bleak, bleak microcosm for our losties so I thought it fits):

The hero's goal is either escape or destruction of the social order. However, the story is often (but not always) unresolved. That is, the narrative may deal with individuals in a dystopian society who are unsatisfied, and may rebel, but ultimately fail to change anything. Sometimes they themselves end up changed to conform to the society's norms. This narrative arc to a sense of hopelessness can be found in such classic dystopian works as 1984. It contrasts with much fiction of the future, in which a hero succeeds in resolving conflicts or otherwise changing things for the better.

Now, my problem with this variant is that Lost is supposed to be about redemption and while the ending might be bitter-sweet as promised, right now it's just plain bitter. It's television. This can't be it.

And then we have this scenario:

If destruction is not possible, escape may be, if the dystopia does not control the world. In Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451, the main character succeeds in fleeing and finding tramps who have dedicated themselves to memorizing books to preserve them. In the book Logan's Run, the main characters make their way to an escape from the otherwise inevitable euthanasia on their 21st birthday (30th in the later film version). Because such dystopias must necessarily control less of the world than the protagonist can reach, and the protagonist can elude capture, this motif also subverts the dystopia's power. In Lois Lowry's The Giver the main character Jonas is able to run away from 'The Community' and escapes to 'Elsewhere' where people have memories.
Sometimes, this escape leads to the inevitable: The protagonist making a mistake that usually brings about the end of a rebel society, usually living where people think is a story.

...and this one:

Occasionally, the escape from dystopia is made possible by time travel and changing history.

If I'm not mistaken, in an interview aired before the finale, Damon Lindelof said the title of this episode is very significant. So my guess is as good as yours, but until shown otherwise, I think this is the halfway future. Jack is in the PRESENT now while the island events were in the PAST. By the very end of the show, we'll have seen a very different (not necessarily rosy) future.

And can I just say how happy and relieved I am to be able to geek out about the show and hope I'll be here to see that finale and the future? I seriously lost hope with the show this season, but this brought me back in a big way. Thank you, writers! (Hey, it's Jack... I'm easy. :jack:)

ETA: Did Jack say to Kate "I'm sick of FLYING" or "sick of LYING" in that last scene. Because that can be very significant. I keep hearing Flying re: his desperate trips over the Pacific, but I'm not sure.

ETA: Did Jack say to Kate "I'm sick of FLYING" or "sick of LYING" in that last scene. Because that can be very significant. I keep hearing Flying re: his desperate trips over the Pacific, but I'm not sure.


I heard "lying". I hope he didn't say "flying" because "lying" would be so much more interesting IMO. That's the conspiracy theorist in me. :biggrin:

i think there's a chance that this future shown to us may also be shown to jack--a la desmond-- and he may act to avoid it.

I don't want time travel or alternate realities though I think we've jumped the sci-fi shark a long time ago with the smoke monster and the time travel and Jacob so I don't see why not. As a rabid Jack fan, I certainly wouldn't want it erased. The darkness he's in right now is crucial to bringing him back to light and I wouldn't want that lost in his journey.

I wholeheartedly agree. The hero full of guilt and regret is an amazing thing to explore.

I think this is the halfway future. Jack is in the PRESENT now while the island events were in the PAST. By the very end of the show, we'll have seen a very different (not necessarily rosy) future.

Exactly! We've been watching the facts on the island thinking they were the present of the characters but really, it isn't. Jack still has to find a way to "go back" to the island, while we've yet to be shown what happened that got him off the island.

So maybe what he was seeing was the future as it would happen AT THE PRESENT MOMENT...but the choices he will make between the present and that future would affect it.

I start by assuming they don't make this into a dream, hallucination or vision and take us back to the island waiting for the rescue chopper to arrive. :rolleyes:

I took the reference to Jack's dad still being alive in this future is evidence that events in the past have already been changed at least once and things that change once can change again. Although a reset of time taking the show back to its beginning would not be a first for TV. The show Witchblade being one obvious example of using that device.

Hmm just came back to add that it could be nothing but computer similations that we have been watching, not real events just something like a role playing game or social psychology analysis program.:mad:

The fact that we're presented with *a* version of the future three seasons in with three seasons to go leads me to believe that the ultimate future of the characters, in particular Jack, is up in the air. The question is how will the puzzle pieces fall into place for each person? I'm not convinced everyone will get a happy ending.

In Jack's case, I would agree that his "destiny" shouldn't be that of a pill-popping alcoholic with suicidal tendancies. He should be able to be *the* hero without the self-destructive side-effects.

The question is can that reality exist off-Island? I'm not so sure. Ben was right when he implied that Jack didn't have anything worthwhile to go back to in the outside world. If the circumstances had been differant, Jack might have agreed with Ben, and stuck around. I think the Jack that we saw in the flash-forward is lamenting what amounts to a lost opportunity. Will Jack get ANOTHER chance at redemption? I think he will. In the end, I think Jack's destiny lies on the Island..

You are assuming Christian is alive because Jack told the woman on the pharmacy to call him? (I thought that was just a trick ghe tried to play, and when he saw the woman was indeed going to call his dad's office, he just left)
Being a flash forward has the same meaning of anything being a flashback. This is, in my opinion, a hint for the viewer, a way to provide us more information, but it doesn't seem that Jack was 'seeing' it or 'dreaming' about it. In fact, if one wants to think of it realistically, I can't imagine Jack having a vision of his future while he's under the extreme stress he was , he was taking care of many things.
When Desmond had his "vision" after the hatch exploded, they made sure that we knew that he was, somehow, unconscious. It wasn't the same with Jack.

The fact that Jack wants to go back to the island tells me that he has finally seen that Locke was right and that the island has a purpose for them. He isn't familiar with Desmond's flashes since he was with the Others for most of that plot, but he needs to find Desmond. If anyone can help him get back to the island and change the picture on the front of the puzzle box, it's Desmond. I think the future for him can definitely change.

The future we saw through Jack's eyes, is it set in stone or can it be changed? I've seen people on other sites saying both things, and I'd be interested to see what others have to say here!

Personally, I think it is meant to be changed. Locke and Ben, the two most connected to the island, kept telling Jack that making the phone call was a bad decision. Jack obviously made it though, and we saw the future that resulted. But at the same time, thanks to Ben and Locke, we know that's not the 'right' future. That is not what is supposed to happen.
I think you're right and that it must be changed. If this is really how it ends up it would be incredibly unsatisfying! I think the rest of the series will be about Jack trying to fix the chain of events that led him to this point.

Having the flash forward just be one possible future actually ties in nicely with Desmond and Charlie. Charlie kept fighting his death and he was able to change the future that Desmond originally had seen. He only accepted his death when he knew it would help out and save everyone else. I think with Jack it's the reverse. We know the wrong future and Jack making the phone call was accepting that future and even causing it. For the rest of the show he's going to have to change it back to what it should be. Charlie's whole storyline - showing that the future can be changed - makes a whole lot more sense now to me.I'm not quite sure what you mean here... In what sense did Charlie change the future? He was told by Desmond what would happen, what he needed to do, and he did it. And everything happened just as Desmond said it would. Charlie didn't change anything, he just went along with what was "supposed" to happen. I wish he had changed the future and thwarted fate by surviving in addition to accomplishing his mission.

Jack is the one who did change the future. He made his own decision instead of going along with fate and he suffered the consequences. So now he needs to change the past to make everything what it should have been in the first place. :undecide:

I heard "lying". I hope he didn't say "flying" because "lying" would be so much more interesting IMO. That's the conspiracy theorist in me. :biggrin:
I think it was "lying". People kept talking about how he was a hero twice over -- once when he rescued the woman from the car and once, I assume, when he got the 815 survivors rescued. My guess is that something happened during the course of the rescue that has burdened him with guilt, and he feels like his image as a hero is a lie.

You are assuming Christian is alive because Jack told the woman on the pharmacy to call him?and had a post island prescription apparently written by Christian. But that was one of 2 references. He also told the other doctor to go down the hall and check his dad because he was probably drunker than Jack. That Doctor didn't respond with a check who?

Oh, you're right! I had forgotten what he said to the other doctor (the prescription could have been that he borrowed his father's prescriptions somehow, if he was so stuck to the drugs that he could steal, he could have written the prescriptions as his dad too. Anyway it doesn't matter now that you reminded me the other dad mention) Maybe I'm just in denial, I just don't want to accept that this could have gone to the parallel reality or change the future a-la-Heroes style :undecide:

(Yes, I'm in denial. I prefer to think Jack was delusional at that point..)

Let me start off by saying that I really don't want the "flash forward" we saw of Jack tonight to be true, as it was suuuuper depressing.
I hate to say this, but it seems the flash forwards are real; not a possible reality as some have suggested. A lot of people have decided that what we have seen in the Grizzly Adams Jack off-island bit tonight may be able to be altered somehow by what is "currently" going on in the island, i.e. Charlie warning Desmond and preventing whatever terrible mistake Jack might be making. This kind of reminds me of the "Choose Your Own Adventure" books I used to read back in the day.
HOWEVAH, In the "Answers" episode/interview w/ Lindelof and Cuse, Cuse describes (at about the 6:15 mark) the show as a mosaic, with various tiles that are revealed along the way. The tiles are pieces of the past (flashbacks, obviously), the present (on the island), and the FUTURE(the flash forwards)
It makes sense that we're halfway through the show, with three seasons finished and that there are three more to go. The format of the show is changing from flashbacks to flash forwards. <spoiler>We've already seen about all of the flashbacks that we're going to. After all, this episode has been referred to as "the game changer."
Like I said, I wish that the glimpse of the future we saw last night was not real, but I'm afraid it is.
Soooo, what I think what we have seen w/ Jack and Kate (note: no freckles) is a new sort of off-island beginning. He sure is messed up now, but isn't there plenty of time for redemption/ self-improvement?

Claudia815,

Thanks for the clarity on what timeframes we've been witness to. To re-cap:

* The "flash-forward" we saw throughout "Through the Looking Glass" is actually the "present" (on the show).

* The on-Island story we saw in "Through the Looking Glass" actually occured in the past (on the show).

* The flashbacks that the characters experienced on the Island occured in fairly distant past off-Island (on the show).

* Desmond's flashes we saw alternated between events that took place in alternates pasts and futures on-Island that were actually in the past (on the show).

The key is where we're at NOW. The flash-forwards have actually thrust us into the present in the Lost universe. Jack and Kate (to name but two-perhaps only two) exist in a present that exists "x" amount of time after the last event we saw on the Island, which is the communication between Jack and Naomi's freighter.

It would appear that the version of the "present" that exists for Jack and Kate in the outside world has created rather differant experiences for both characters. Jack's a disaster with virtually no family or friends, spiraling downward into drugs, alcohol, and an obsession over returning to the Island. Kate appears stable, perhaps even "well off", but disconnected, perhaps unremorseful?

The question is, where do we go from here? My guess is next season will feature episodes focusing on the Losties left on the Island fending off the threat that Naomi's group has brought. Perhaps at some point they reconcile with the Others (now led by Locke-wtih Jacob the puppetmaster) in an attempt to fight that threat.

In the outside world, I would imagine Jack (with or without Kate) will keep trying to find the Island. He'll have to up the ante, because he clearly isn't getting any closer on his own. I wonder if we'll see him make contact (or perhaps someone will make contact with him?) with someone who will be able to tell him where the Island is and how to get there? I would assume that would change Jack's job description from surgeon to private detective, as Widmore/Paik/Hanso/Mittelos will be a hard nut to crack.

Next year's season finale will probably feature Jack getting concrete intel on the location of the Island, and we might even see Jack begin the journey there. The question will be, how much time will have elapsed on the Island, and what kind of place will he be returning to? From that point, Jack will begin the process of securing his "rightful" place on the Island and a better future for himself.

Personally, I think it is meant to be changed. Locke and Ben, the two most connected to the island, kept telling Jack that making the phone call was a bad decision. Jack obviously made it though, and we saw the future that resulted. But at the same time, thanks to Ben and Locke, we know that's not the 'right' future. That is not what is supposed to happen.

For example, I don't think in the 'right' future, the main character would end up a pill-popping alcoholic. Jack has always been heroic, and he was very much not tonight. And I think that regardless of one's shipping tendencies, Jack and Kate care a lot about each other (as Jack even said tonight) so that even if they weren't together in the future, they would at least be friends. And Kate's wealth felt really off to me too.

And it just doesn't make sense I think from a TV POV to reveal the end of the show right in the middle. If that's the way the future is going to be for the Losties, why bother with the next three seasons? We would know what would happen anyways. And it was really just dark and depressing, so I just hope the future really ends up brighter for them all. .

We can be guaranteed that this is not how it ends. The TV POV rules. This may sound cycnical but this is entertainment and this is ABC TV that just paid a whole lot for 48 more episodes and this is a creative team who has been sensitive to the buzz of criticism about not providing answers, stringing the storyline out and coming up with widely unpopular characters (see Nikki and Paolo) I just recall how TPTB described each season as a book with its own story (or some similar analogy). Its also about people who are given a chance to be better people than they were. We will not be cheated out of Jack's redemption. They will not settle on a timeline that everyone hates and be stuck with it for 3 seasons and expect to stay in the top 20 shows. Not happening. Remember, they are going to air at an earlier hour to get more family audience, too much of a bummer to keep the viewers with a hopeless wreck of a Jack.

My guess: Season 4 will clearly explore, if not fully answer, the time paradox (how did Jack get the golden airlines fly-any-time pass for surviving the crash and Christan be alive after the crash, now that's a paradox), show us the off island factions that Ben is talking about and give us answers about Richard and Jacob and the four toe statue (maybe). WIll Charlie come back in the "right" timeline is the question. Will Jack sacrifce his Dad again to set things right? The other guarantee will be there are some hard choices for Jack next season. But he is the star and he has the full 48 espisodes to go.(ABC must have asked for that guarantee)

Assuming no time travel is involved, I don't think that it can be changed. This future flash isn't like one of Desmond's flashes in which an actual character sees this future and changes it. Jack's flash forward was not seen by any of the characters, only by the third person perspective that we, the audience, get. I believe that this was a huge foreshadow of what is to come, and now we will experience how it gets to this point.

Assuming no time travel is involved, I don't think that it can be changed. This future flash isn't like one of Desmond's flashes in which an actual character sees this future and changes it. Jack's flash forward was not seen by any of the characters, only by the third person perspective that we, the audience, get. I believe that this was a huge foreshadow of what is to come, and now we will experience how it gets to this point.

Right, but the "future" that we saw on the show via the flash forward isn't the future in that timeline, it's the present. Everything on Island that we have seen so far is actually in the past in that timeline. As a result, the future in that timeline is still being written. The question is: Can the future in that timeline, which starts from the last scene we saw in "Through the Looking Glass" be changed? I think it can and will.

The future is fluid. People have choices. It all depends on what they choose to do...or not do.

Thats personal point of view of course.
It really depends on if you believe in Fate, or free will.
Personally I'm a fatalist, and do not believe in free will, so I dont think it can be changed.
Honestly, I think things turned out pretty crappy for Jack, so I would like to think it could be changed, therefore I'm holding onto the alt timeline theory.

I think it will not change. What i think will happen is for the 3 season left they will stay on the island. Instead of having flashbacks they will have flash forwards slowly reviling their future like with the first 3 season we slowly reviled their past.

What if the future can indeed be changed? Let's say that the "flash forward" was 2-4 years from now. After the Jack/Kate scene at the airport, Jack seeks out Walt. Walt with the mysterious apparition powers, who agrees to change the dreadful future by sending his apparition-self back in time, to get Locke out of the pit, in order to change their destiny?

That would explain the older Walt, and it would open up the possibility for a changed future.

What if the future can indeed be changed? Let's say that the "flash forward" was 2-4 years from now. After the Jack/Kate scene at the airport, Jack seeks out Walt. Walt with the mysterious apparition powers, who agrees to change the dreadful future by sending his apparition-self back in time, to get Locke out of the pit, in order to change their destiny?

That would explain the older Walt, and it would open up the possibility for a changed future.

That's an intriguing thought. The Jack in the present tries to change the choices Jack in the past on the Island made which would cause a course correction that would lead to a differant Jack in the future? I guess the question is: Does that Jack exist on or off the Island? My take is if Jack can somehow get back to the point he made the fateful decision to contact Naomi's ship, he wouldn't do so.

Claudia815,

Thanks for the clarity on what timeframes we've been witness to. To re-cap:

* The "flash-forward" we saw throughout "Through the Looking Glass" is actually the "present" (on the show).

* The on-Island story we saw in "Through the Looking Glass" actually occured in the past (on the show).

* The flashbacks that the characters experienced on the Island occured in fairly distant past off-Island (on the show).

* Desmond's flashes we saw alternated between events that took place in alternates pasts and futures on-Island that were actually in the past (on the show).

No, thank you! :smile:

I'm not quite sure about this because the prop department has let us down before and they have a tendency to do it in Jack's episodes (misspelling his last name, for God's sake! :rolleyes: ) but look... Lostpedia says we're right. Jack is in April 2007 (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass)according to the newspaper he's reading.

We can be guaranteed that this is not how it ends. The TV POV rules. This may sound cycnical but this is entertainment and this is ABC TV that just paid a whole lot for 48 more episodes and this is a creative team who has been sensitive to the buzz of criticism about not providing answers, stringing the storyline out and coming up with widely unpopular characters (see Nikki and Paolo) I just recall how TPTB described each season as a book with its own story (or some similar analogy). Its also about people who are given a chance to be better people than they were. We will not be cheated out of Jack's redemption. They will not settle on a timeline that everyone hates and be stuck with it for 3 seasons and expect to stay in the top 20 shows. Not happening. Remember, they are going to air at an earlier hour to get more family audience, too much of a bummer to keep the viewers with a hopeless wreck of a Jack.

My guess: Season 4 will clearly explore, if not fully answer, the time paradox (how did Jack get the golden airlines fly-any-time pass for surviving the crash and Christan be alive after the crash, now that's a paradox), show us the off island factions that Ben is talking about and give us answers about Richard and Jacob and the four toe statue (maybe). WIll Charlie come back in the "right" timeline is the question. Will Jack sacrifce his Dad again to set things right? The other guarantee will be there are some hard choices for Jack next season. But he is the star and he has the full 48 espisodes to go.(ABC must have asked for that guarantee)

There are always horrible choices for Jack. He breaks my heart.

And thank you for that level-headed post. Yes, it can be changed and it will be changed. We haven't seen the future yet, just the present.

No, thank you! :smile:

I'm not quite sure about this because the prop department has let us down before and they have a tendency to do it in Jack's episodes (misspelling his last name, for God's sake! :rolleyes: ) but look... Lostpedia says we're right. Jack is in April 2007 (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Through_the_Looking_Glass)according to the newspaper he's reading.



There are always horrible choices for Jack. He breaks my heart.

And thank you for that level-headed post. Yes, it can be changed and it will be changed. We haven't seen the future yet, just the present.


Interesting. If true, that would mean that roughly thirty one months passed between the crash of Oceanic Flight 815 and the final scene in TTLG where Jack meets up with Kate at the airport. Since the Losties were on the island for around three months between the time of the crash and the the time of the rescue, Jack and Kate (to name but two) have been in the outside world since their return for twenty eight months, or 2 1/4 years.

What I find interesting is the idea that the fact there are 48 remaining episodes is supposed to be significant. If we apply (an admittedly arbitrary) episode for a month rule, and the at least a portion of the upcoming seasons will explore the 28 months that elapsed between the rescue and the end of TTLG, then that would mean that there are an additonal twenty episodes that would be devoted to the future. If handled in real time, that would provide a date stamp of 2009, which is when Kate and Tom were to retrieve their time capsule. My guess is in Kate's idealized future, she and Tom were married, and had a child (in the present Lost universe, Tom married Rachel and had a child).

The future we saw through Jack's eyes, is it set in stone or can it be changed? I've seen people on other sites saying both things, and I'd be interested to see what others have to say here!

Personally, I think it is meant to be changed. Locke and Ben, the two most connected to the island, kept telling Jack that making the phone call was a bad decision. Jack obviously made it though, and we saw the future that resulted. But at the same time, thanks to Ben and Locke, we know that's not the 'right' future. That is not what is supposed to happen.

For example, I don't think in the 'right' future, the main character would end up a pill-popping alcoholic. Jack has always been heroic, and he was very much not tonight. And I think that regardless of one's shipping tendencies, Jack and Kate care a lot about each other (as Jack even said tonight) so that even if they weren't together in the future, they would at least be friends. And Kate's wealth felt really off to me too.

And it just doesn't make sense I think from a TV POV to reveal the end of the show right in the middle. If that's the way the future is going to be for the Losties, why bother with the next three seasons? We would know what would happen anyways. And it was really just dark and depressing, so I just hope the future really ends up brighter for them all.

Having the flash forward just be one possible future actually ties in nicely with Desmond and Charlie. Charlie kept fighting his death and he was able to change the future that Desmond originally had seen. He only accepted his death when he knew it would help out and save everyone else. I think with Jack it's the reverse. We know the wrong future and Jack making the phone call was accepting that future and even causing it. For the rest of the show he's going to have to change it back to what it should be. Charlie's whole storyline - showing that the future can be changed - makes a whole lot more sense now to me.

Here's the thing. The flash forwards are actually real time. So, what has happened cannot be changed. However, this doesn't mean Jack's journey is over. By the end, hopefully he will make it back to the Island, as he wants... and hopefully Kate and some of the other Losties will want it too, if it is indeed mean to be as Locke and Ben have said.

Here's the thing. The flash forwards are actually real time. So, what has happened cannot be changed. However, this doesn't mean Jack's journey is over. By the end, hopefully he will make it back to the Island, as he wants... and hopefully Kate and some of the other Losties will want it too, if it is indeed mean to be as Locke and Ben have said.


um...how do you know the flash forwards are real time?

um...how do you know the flash forwards are real time?

I think it's somewhere in the 2007 - 2010 realm. I just don't think they'd introduce anything into the show that wasn't actually true. Also, many have mentioned the newspaper article said 2007. Even if that's incorrect, it's some time later because there is a definite story as to how Jack became a pill popper and Kate wants nothing to do with him...

Here's the thing. The flash forwards are actually real time. So, what has happened cannot be changed. However, this doesn't mean Jack's journey is over. By the end, hopefully he will make it back to the Island, as he wants... and hopefully Kate and some of the other Losties will want it too, if it is indeed mean to be as Locke and Ben have said.


That is my hope too. It is so depressing to see Jack like that, so I hope that this is just the "present" and we have yet to see the "future". There is no way that Jack's journey can end like that. We have to find out what made him be in that condition and why he wants to go back to the island. And I believe he will make it back to the island. It is his destiny. (Something tells me that won't be last time he sees Kate either)

From way back in season 1, Exodus Pt. 2

LOCKE: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident -- that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence -- especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
JACK: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
LOCKE: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny.
JACK: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John?
LOCKE: Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here -- that led us down a path -- that led you and me to this day, to right now.
JACK: And where does that path end, John?
LOCKE: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack -- all of it -- all of it happened so that we could open the hatch.
JACKE: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive.
LOCKE: Survival is all relative, Jack.
JACK: I don't believe in destiny.
LOCKE: Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.

That is my hope too. It is so depressing to see Jack like that, so I hope that this is just the "present" and we have yet to see the "future". There is no way that Jack's journey can end like that. We have to find out what made him be in that condition and why he wants to go back to the island. And I believe he will make it back to the island. It is his destiny. (Something tells me that won't be last time he sees Kate either)

From way back in season 1, Exodus Pt. 2

LOCKE: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident -- that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence -- especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
JACK: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
LOCKE: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny.
JACK: Did you talk with Boone about destiny, John?
LOCKE: Boone was a sacrifice that the island demanded. What happened to him at that plane was a part of a chain of events that led us here -- that led us down a path -- that led you and me to this day, to right now.
JACK: And where does that path end, John?
LOCKE: The path ends at the hatch. The hatch, Jack -- all of it -- all of it happened so that we could open the hatch.
JACKE: No, no, we're opening the hatch so that we can survive.
LOCKE: Survival is all relative, Jack.
JACK: I don't believe in destiny.
LOCKE: Yes, you do. You just don't know it yet.

Yeah, totally. Good point. Jack's destiny has not been fulfilled. None of the Losties' destinies have, really. Charlie's was...

These are the moments when I wish my English would be better :undecide:
I agree with what you guys just said. I feel many people are convinced that these flashforwards (and the flashbacks, for that matter) work in the same way the "flashes before Desmond's eyes" do, when they're entirely different.
It's much simpler when you see it as a timeline and consider that we can see any scene taken from any point in time, because that's just the way the writers want to deliver us information.
What can be changed is what lies ahead of Jack's life from the moment Kate leaves and the plane takes off behind him (that is, if the writers don't plan to show us more determined flashforwards that occur after it :D) . If there is one concept that has remained constant in Lost is the burden of each one's past. All those flashbacks have shown us how the characters past decisions have shaped their lives, and how they can't just erase them because that's how they became who they are. If Jack could just go back in time and change everything, wouldn't it be pointless for the whole character development this show has?

These are the moments when I wish my English would be better :undecide:
I agree with what you guys just said. I feel many people are convinced that these flashforwards (and the flashbacks, for that matter) work in the same way the "flashes before Desmond's eyes" do, when they're entirely different.
It's much simpler when you see it as a timeline and consider that we can see any scene taken from any point in time, because that's just the way the writers want to deliver us information.
What can be changed is what lies ahead of Jack's life from the moment Kate leaves and the plane takes off behind him (that is, if the writers don't plan to show us more determined flashforwards that occur after it :D) . If there is one concept that has remained constant in Lost is the burden of each one's past. All those flashbacks have shown us how the characters past decisions have shaped their lives, and how they can't just erase them because that's how they became who they are. If Jack could just go back in time and change everything, wouldn't it be pointless for the whole character development this show has?

Your English is fine! And you make perfect sense to me.

I
This is a dystopian future and we'll probably spend next year exploring it and why it came to this, how the other characters fared and then in seasons 5/6 what we can do to "go back".

Oh, I really hope not. I just don't think I can deal with watch a drug addicted, drunk Jack every week. It's too depressing. :undecide:

Well, im easy on whether or not the future could be changed, but im very warm to the possibility of a dark future for them all, or at least some of them, including the main characters. I dont mean they should all die in a rain of Dharma nukes, i mean i'd like enough realism to show their characters have suffered in due process.

If that is a future set in stone then whatever happened to Jack and Kate has yet to be explained, besides do we really need another TV show where the heroes walk off into the sunset to start utopian lives???? This show has had dark undertones from the beginning and i sincerely hope the writers find it in their hearts to end Lost on a realistic note, or at least bear us in mind!!!

Some people think that this is the end of the series but I don't think that they would show us this three seasons before the fact.

I think this show has always trumpeted redemption (Charlie?) and that what we saw in the finale was the start of Jacks eventual redemption. To borrow a line from Ben it's the "Beginning of the End".

I have a theory about what it all means in the spoiler theories forum :D

Some people think that this is the end of the series but I don't think that they would show us this three seasons before the fact. I sure hope not, this was way too depressing to be the end of the series ;)

Is it the predicted future IF they end up being rescued now? That's one good reason why Locke would say "you're not supposed to do this" to Jack.

Or is it the unchangeable future even if they dont get rescued now, if the people on the ship are not rescuers as we are meant to believe?

I bet Jack ends up finding Des and convincing him to take him back to the island.....Des has the ability to see the different timelines, so he may be aware that he possibly was never suppose to be rescued.

That would be pretty powerful....A handful of the original Losties go back to try and "fix" things.

This could set up an interesting dynamic. Maybe some of the Losties like how things have turned out and they try and stop Des & Jack....

I'm rambling now....where's my medicine. :biggrin:

I don't reallly know if this is the future that we saw!
I mean there was something quite odd about that supposedly future scenario! But that's another thing... Well i certainly hope that we'll get a little answer to this question from the show's makers! They just have to give some answers or at least some hints. Through the looking glass is pretty hardcore if you look at it in terms of emotions. And I at least feel hopeless and pretty desperate having seen that finale. I feel Lost and there are probably many others with me. So i can just beg for some answers!

If that future flash we saw if jack is going to be changed - then what was the point of showing it at all, if its never going to happen. Why show a future that isn't going to happen, if Jack or something else is inevitably going to prevent it.

I mean, you could show any number of possible futures for Jack, each as pointless as the next (if the writers are going to turn round and *change* it). They could have shown him in the future as a cross-dressing gay burlesque dancer, but kazaam the future is altered by a change in the past and jack is normal again.

I think this future needs to happen, and should not be prevented. Because they showed it to us, as a viewer I would feel cheated if they changed it. The next season should show how Jack got to be like this, and what we saw as the future of Jack will then become the present time for us as a viewer. The island time we see now will be the past in the new season, will depressed Jack in the real time of the show. The series will then focus on how Jack gets back to the island, in our time (i.e. not 2004).

I think ultimately Jack will be the chosen one, the one we think Locke is supposed to be.

Jack will be man of science and man of faith.

Ugh....I hate the can of worms FBYE opened. I'm sure the show was never about time travel and precognition and stuff like that but that's what people will think now.

Anyway, I don't think the future can be changed apart from when Charlie dies and Desmond sees it, but we'll see.