How to interpret Sawyer's "Well, let's hope not," remark re: kate's possible pregnancy when they were getting water at the stream. Is he hoping she's not becuase of the death sentence pregnancy deals women on the island? Obviously that was at least part of his tone/reaction. Or is it also that he's just done with her, done with the games and wishy-washyness of the whole relationship, done with anyone (particularly a kid).

After killing his parents' killer, he is just in a bad emotional state, and doesn't want to get close with anyone. I think most of his comment was to put Kate off. From the way he said it, I don't think he meant it to be "Let's hope not since all mothers on this island die."

I don't remember, is it common knowledge now that all the pregnant woman die?

I don't remember, is it common knowledge now that all the pregnant woman die?

I don't *think* so. I don't remember Sun telling anyone back at camp that she thought she was going to die, based on what Juliet told her. Juliet maybe told Jack - but other than that, nothing's been shown or talked about.

I saw it more as a jacka** thing to say something that would make her angry at him and not want to come so that he knew that she would be safe. later Jack tells her that sawyer didn't mean anything he said. Typical Sawyer acting like he only cares about him self just so he can protect someone else.

No, Juliet told Sun right in front of Sun that all the women she worked with had died, "they all died."

Ummm. I think Sawyer has an attitude right now, particularly at Kate. I think his warning about the (potential) pregnancy was a reflection on his feelings. At least, right now, he doesn't any tie to Kate.

I don't remember, is it common knowledge now that all the pregnant woman die?
Juliet also talked about this problem when she was "treating" Claire when Juliet first arrived at camp. She told it to Jack and Kate, and I believe Charlie was in the proximity too, so if Charlie knew, then Hurley knew, which means the whole camp would know. It was probably explained as a follow up in the town meeting when they played the tape for everyone.

You would have thought since Kate knew about the danger from that first night Juliet was in camp, that she might have mentioned it to her sex partner, but it looked like this conversation in TTLG was the first they had talked about it! :frusty:

Sawyer doesn't seem the father-type to me. Perhaps he just isn't looking forward to the idea of parenthood, especially on a strange tropical island.

I think he is distancing himself from Kate (and everyone else) because he is still struggling with the trauma of having killed Cooper. It's the same reason he has stopped calling her Freckles, because that was his affectionate name for her and he doesn't feel that he can love or be loved right now.

You would have thought since Kate knew about the danger from that first night Juliet was in camp, that she might have mentioned it to her sex partner, but it looked like this conversation in TTLG was the first they had talked about it! :frusty:

This is why I think Kate can't get pregnant (and she knows it). Juliet had told her about the pregnancy thing, but Kate never seemed concerned and still had sex with Sawyer after that. When she finally pregnancy to Sawyer in the finale, I think it was just a test to see what reaction he would give her since he'd been distant lately... and he failed.

I think he is distancing himself from Kate (and everyone else) because he is still struggling with the trauma of having killed Cooper. It's the same reason he has stopped calling her Freckles, because that was his affectionate name for her and he doesn't feel that he can love or be loved right now.

I agree. Sawyer is a changed man since his visit to the Black Rock -- more closed off, like he was in the beginning. He can still make wise cracks, like he did with Juliet and call people fun names, like he did with Hurley. But it's different with Kate because he got close to her. So now he's shutting her out now.

After killing his parents' killer, he is just in a bad emotional state,

He didn't kill his parent's killer. It was Sawyer's (James Ford's) father who was the murderer, then a suicide. Although Cooper tried to kill Locke, in fact we never saw him kill anyone.

This is why I think Kate can't get pregnant (and she knows it). Juliet had told her about the pregnancy thing, but Kate never seemed concerned and still had sex with Sawyer after that. When she finally pregnancy to Sawyer in the finale, I think it was just a test to see what reaction he would give her since he'd been distant lately... and he failed.
I hope you're right, allergygal. But since she took a pregnancy test when she was with her husband in the flashback, the assumption is that she has no reason to believe things are not in working order. I'm afraid she's just stupid. Hence the brick wall again :frusty:

Dying aside, I think it's perfectly reasonable for Sawyer to hope she's not pregnant. It really annoys me when women use a guy's reaction to a possible pregnancy as a "test". They've known each other for 3 months... under any circumstances he should be hoping she's not pregnant!

IMO.....

Sawyer hates himself right now. His self loathing isn't so much about the fact that he killed a terrible man like Cooper, but rather that he knows that much of what Cooper said (that actually goaded him into killing Cooper) was really true. Sawyer is back to feeling like the lost little boy whose parents clearly didn't love enough to put his needs and welfare above their own selfish desires. Though he tried not to believe it, part of him did believe Cooper when he said that his mother practically begged Cooper to save her from her pathetic life (...as his mother). He knew Cooper was right when he said that his father was probably in hell. And when Cooper tore up his letter, that he wrote as a desperate hurting child, it only validated the fact that his feelings didn't matter to anyone then any more than they matter to anyone now.

To feel unloved (and consequently rejected) by your parents (whom you love and trust) creates a self loathing that is difficult to explain. It can make a person feel unworthy of love from anyone and creates a general mistrust for everyone. All of these years when Sawyer thought that he was raging against the original Sawyer (Cooper), the man that he blamed for killing his parents and ruining his life, he was in reality fighting back against that identity of the young vulnerable boy whose parents didn't really love enough to protect from the consequences of their selfish, guilty actions.

I can totally understand why Sawyer would be anger with Kate. Although she had nothing to do with the the nastiness that went down at the brig, she too has shown a general lack of concern for Sawyer's feelings. He has had no inclination that she genuinely cares for him, as lately she routinely put her own desires ahead of his feelings. It is only natural for Sawyer to feel the need to push her away protect himself from being hurt any further. He has no reason to trust her and to feel like he can open himself up to her again. For all he knows, she is only using him to make Jack jealous.

And as to becoming a father, as I said before, Sawyer hates himself right now. There is no way in his currently state of mind that he could possibly embrace the idea of reproducing. He has to find a way to forgive his parents as well as a reason to feel worthy of love before he will ever be able move past this pain and move forward with his life.

And as to becoming a father, as I said before, Sawyer hates himself right now. There is no way in his currently state of mind that he could possibly embrace the idea of reproducing. He has to find a way to forgive his parents as well as a reason to feel worthy of love before he will ever be able move past this pain and move forward with his life.

Thats a good post but when all is said and done but it doesnt matter what he wants, its matters on what will happen. He has shown well they both have, utter carelessness in that department.

Kate is worried, that i belive. Its on her mind, Who do you think would volenteer to shoot down the others out of all the Losties and in this season finale and for the past weeks episodes has done absolutley no action at all. Kate, she's normally always arguing with Jack to volenteer and she only did that once, and even then she barley even put up a fight.

She knows what may happen, she's known for a while and i think she probabley wants it to happen after all she would finally have something that belongs to her.

I think it's perfectly reasonable for Sawyer to hope she's not pregnant. It really annoys me when women use a guy's reaction to a possible pregnancy as a "test". They've known each other for 3 months... under any circumstances he should be hoping she's not pregnant!

Well perhaps guys that don't want to be a daddy should consider preventing it instead of just hitting any knot hole in a tree and then acting all offended or outraged when the pregnancy subject comes up.

Sawyer was being a jerk to Kate because he's pushing her away because that's what he does and you'd think at some point she'll finally stop coming back for more of his angry, hateful behavior toward her. She must like it. Like mother like daughter.

Kate may be pregnant. TPTB certainly left the possibility WIDE OPEN. But I'm hoping she isn't because that would diminish her kick @$$-iveness. NOT to mention we already have one woman -- SUN -- who will eventually become an emotional pingpong ball as her pregnancy prgresses.

The Volvo Kate was driving i think was clue from the writers of the family situation she is in.

Its a long standing joke that those who own Volvo's are family people.

a truly believe that kate is pregnant. those tent nookies with sawyer are shown for nothing

Sawyer was being a jerk to Kate because he's pushing her away because that's what he does and you'd think at some point she'll finally stop coming back for more of his angry, hateful behavior toward her. She must like it. Like mother like daughter.


Well, she never seemed to mind it when Jack treated her that way, so why should she mind it from Sawyer? Infact, the worse Jack treated her, the more she seemed to chase after him. Maybe Sawyer picked up on that fact and figured he try out that technique for himself since being nice to Kate certainly wasn't holding her attention.

Anyway, I think that you are correct about her being her mother's daughter. When you are raised in that sort of enviroment, you don't know to expect anything better. Clearly she needs some emotional chaos in her life in order to feel comfortable.

The Volvo Kate was driving i think was clue from the writers of the family situation she is in.

Its a long standing joke that those who own Volvo's are family people.

In my area of Brooklyn, Volvo owners are hipsters. :)

I think Sawyer said it to be mean. He's pushing Kate away, and this was said to dismiss and hurt her.

Well, she never seemed to mind it when Jack treated her that way, so why should she mind it from Sawyer? Infact, the worse Jack treated her, the more she seemed to chase after him. Maybe Sawyer picked up on that fact and figured he try out that technique for himself since being nice to Kate certainly wasn't holding her attention.

Anyway, I think that you are correct about her being her mother's daughter. When you are raised in that sort of enviroment, you don't know to expect anything better. Clearly she needs some emotional chaos in her life in order to feel comfortable.

I don't recall Jack ever being downright cruel or hurtful to Kate, other than when he wouldn't talk to her after she screwed up everything in THP. He's yelled at her when he's caught her lying to his face and I know some think his behavior in the Hydra was deplorable, but there are those of us that believe he did it to protect her because he knew they were watching. Please, let's not compare Sawyer's tacky behavior and at times downright hatefulness toward Kate to Jack's frustration with Kate at various times because regardless of what Sawyer fans want to see or believe Jack has never done anything to Kate that can even begin to compare to the things Sawyer has done to her. All Jack has ever done is try to protect her and keep her secrets and yes I will agree to disagree with all Sawyer fans on this one and end the debate before it even starts because she is definitely with the man she deserves to be with because in reality she is no better than Sawyer and in some ways worse.

I don't recall Jack ever being downright cruel or hurtful to Kate, other than when he wouldn't talk to her after she screwed up everything in THP. He's yelled at her when he's caught her lying to his face and I know some think his behavior in the Hydra was deplorable, but there are those of us that believe he did it to protect her because he knew they were watching. Please, let's not compare Sawyer's tacky behavior and at times downright hatefulness toward Kate to Jack's frustration with Kate at various times because regardless of what Sawyer fans want to see or believe Jack has never done anything to Kate that can even begin to compare to the things Sawyer has done to her. All Jack has ever done is try to protect her and keep her secrets and yes I will agree to disagree with all Sawyer fans on this one and end the debate before it even starts because she is definitely with the man she deserves to be with because in reality she is no better than Sawyer and in some ways worse.

I totally understand your point about Jack's treatment of Kate. There is definitely more than one way to look at it. However, the same can be said for Sawyer's treament of Kate. Many fans understand that the reason he was so gruff with her during their brief pregnancy conversation was because he was trying to push her away because he loves her and because he currently hates himself. He is trying to protect her and at the same time, punish himself (and also protect himself from being in a situation where he can be rejected again).

But other than that recent incident, I think that Sawyer generally treats Kate like a queen. I would hardly consider his treatment of her to be "tacky" or "hateful". He has often shown himself to be just as protective of her and you believe Jack to be.

Anyway, I am not trying to start at shipper war, but rather I am just trying to point out that there is more than one way to look at things. My general opinion, is that both men love Kate and have tried to to protect her, though I may not always agree with their different tactics. In a lot of ways, it seems to me that Jack and Sawyer are finally on the same side and have developed a mutal respect for one another about a lot of things, including their mutal feelings for Kate. In a perfect world, the fans would follow suite.

I dont think that Sawyer know that it is dangerous for her, but she can know it.