Am I to be suspending disbelief here or is Penny for some reason manning a late 1970 video phone somewhere on or off the island 24/7.

Or a third possibility--she doesn't man the communications 24/7, but she happened to be sitting there trying to communicate with someone (Mikhail?) when Charlie unjammed the jammer. So yes, Penny just happened to be sitting in front of the video phone at that time.

well I certainly felt we were supposed to suspend our disbelief for that scene.

well I certainly felt we were supposed to suspend our disbelief for that scene.

Yeah me too
otherwise it was way too nonsensical. Why would Penny be sending a transmission to the Looking Glass hatch anyways?

Yeah me too
otherwise it was way too nonsensical. Why would Penny be sending a transmission to the Looking Glass hatch anyways?


It was probably a broadcast message that was designed to reach any receiver in "x" area. She's obviously been trying to locate Desmond using the information her team in the Arctic gave her, and she finally hit paydirt.

If Ben's to be believed, it looks like Penny's father Charles was piggybacking Penny's efforts in an attempt to locate the Island for himself. Naomi was working for Charles, not Penny (unbeknownst to her).

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

Yeah, that was hokey. "Desmond's there? How is he?" La tee dah, just a pleasant conversation... Waiting until next season is going to kill me.

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

Nice...these always kill me, I love it.... :biggrin:

Maybe in her time-span she has JUST got the phone call that they may have found it (from season 2) - and went to her contraption thing right after.

Another thing to ponder - did Charlie transmit into the past - and Penny then found Naomi and gave her what would otherwise be an important picture of her and Des. It would explain how Penny didnt know of a boat offshore (at that time) - but could still have a boat offshore.

Also when Jack made contact with Naomi's people exactly how long do you think she had been gone to them? The guy really seemed surprised on the other end.

Yes, its a huge a coincidence that Penny was making contact with the station. HOWEVER. THIS IS LOST, and after the events of the past season, specifically those dealing with fate destiny, and crossing paths (Desmonds flashes), I am totally willing to believe that just how charlie was meant to die, he was also meant to contact penny.

Also when Jack made contact with Naomi's people exactly how long do you think she had been gone to them? The guy really seemed surprised on the other end.

Truth be told, I just thought the people on the boat thought she'd crashed and died at sea. I mean, she was just doing a flyover, and hadn't expected to see land, but then there it was, and her chopper dies, and she bails out.

Stands to reason that the guy on the boat thought she'd died in the crash.

That was very strange how she just happened to be there...

This part was farfetched even by Lost standards.

I have read on somewhere that people think that Penny is Ben's mainland contact. I totally think its plausible. Even though she might be his contact, she still doesn't know for some reason or another where the island actually is. Heck this is LOST, she could be ON the island in a station for all we know.

Didn't bother me. I think she was trying to send a signal, and probably had it on 24/7 when she got the coordinates. All the coincidence that would be required is that she be in a room where the signal was being monitored when Charlie came in.

Put it this way. She's had two guys looking for an anomaly which they find. She probably had something set up constantly sending a signal to the island waiting for communications to come up.

If she was in the same room as the phone or carries a video phone around with her it would have probably rung/sounded it's alarm and she'd have gone running straight to it.

It was a good 20 or so seconds between Charlie flicking the switch and accepting the incoming transmission.

When she got a signal she went over to it, that's totally believable.

It could be a PC-Based communication, broadcasting to her computer via a sort of web-cam.

In that case, she could have been sitting at her computer when Charlie's communication broke in.

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

I totally agree with you!!!!

It could be a PC-Based communication, broadcasting to her computer via a sort of web-cam.

In that case, she could have been sitting at her computer when Charlie's communication broke in.


It could see that as a real possibility....

my feeling is that she is connected with dharma. They would know how to tune into the signal and would be monitoring it. It has probably been getting jammed ever since ben took control of the stations. Just because dharma had found the island before does not mean they can find it now without some help like a sonar beacon or pinpointing the location by radio. My only question now is if penny is with dharma, who is naomi with?

This part was farfetched even by Lost standards.

I always find it funny when small things like this are seen as far fetched when they can be explained quite simply (she just happened to be there) yet we are talking about a show with smoke monsters, purple skys and underground hatches that save the world.


:biggrin:

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

I couldn't have said it better myself Lockesmith!

That scene shows that Dharma was originally connected to Widmore Corporation. And it might also show that Charles, her father, is probably dead and now his company is being run by Penny. It's interesting to mention that right after Charlie flipped off the switch, there was an INCOMING connection. So Penny was probably trying to 'call' the Looking Glass (without even knowing) but never had any luck because of the jamming. So she might know about the whole Dharma-Widmore thing but still has no idea WHERE the island is.
What makes me wonder then what was the point of the whole Season 2 finale scene...
And also, if Naomi was not with Penny, why the heck did she have a picture of Des and Penny?

That scene shows that Dharma was originally connected to Widmore Corporation. And it might also show that Charles, her father, is probably dead and now his company is being run by Penny.

I thought that the scene showed that Penny went the Dr. Marvin Candle School of Cinematography :)

screencap (http://bp0.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RlUVxWnofhI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/PNkZnjeBcB0/s1600-h/des.wife.JPG)

We know that Penny is looking for Desmond, and that Penny does not know Naomi. And we know that Naomi said that she was hired by Penelope Widmore, but has never met her. It seems that Charles Widmore has to be in the middle of it all, since he would have access to Penny's personal things, and could have hired the boat. I think that Naomi's story was made up (but maybe not by Naomi) as a precautionary measure for the mission to find the island. If Des thinks that she is the rescue that Pen sent, he would do absolutely anything to help her.

The strange thing is that she really didn't seem to care all that much when Charlie mentioned Desmond. He's supposedly been missing for years, yet in response to hearing that he's alive on a mystery island with plane crash survivors, she just says "oh he's there with you." That whole scene was weird. I agree that this scene was intended for us to to connect widmore with dharma.

Am I to be suspending disbelief here or is Penny for some reason manning a late 1970 video phone somewhere on or off the island 24/7.

There's something strange afoot here .... looks to me like she was attempting to communicate with the Island/Looking Glass. Though it didn't seem that she was specifically expecting to find Desmond on the other end of the line as she seemed mighty surprised when Charlie said his name.

And what was with Naomi using the cover of being sent by Penny to look for Desmond? Even up til the end it genuinely seemed like she was as glad as anyone to be 'about to be rescued' though that could be part of her cover and the need to maintain the pretence until the last moment.


Is it possible that Naomi was working for 'Daddy' Widmore who was attempting to locate the Island for his own financial gain? Somehow he knew that Des would be on the Island and therefore gave Naomi the cover story? But we also know that Penny has been looking for the Island with her team of scientists looking for the anomaly....
100%
I always find it funny when small things like this are seen as far fetched when they can be explained quite simply (she just happened to be there) yet we are talking about a show with smoke monsters, purple skys and underground hatches that save the world.


:biggrin:


It's all about context.

In the context of a mystery/scifi/fantasy show, wierd things like smoke monsters and mysterious healing are OK. However, Penny somehow randomly having a video call connected to the Looking Glass isn't credible.

That said, I'm sure there'll be a good reason for what we've seen. I've got a feeling her father is responsible for the 'rescue mission' and maybe she has happened to stumble on the gear in one of his offices...... or something :biggrin:
100%
I thought that the scene showed that Penny went the Dr. Marvin Candle School of Cinematography :)

screencap (http://bp0.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/RlUVxWnofhI/AAAAAAAAAMQ/PNkZnjeBcB0/s1600-h/des.wife.JPG)

We know that Penny is looking for Desmond, and that Penny does not know Naomi. And we know that Naomi said that she was hired by Penelope Widmore, but has never met her. It seems that Charles Widmore has to be in the middle of it all, since he would have access to Penny's personal things, and could have hired the boat. I think that Naomi's story was made up (but maybe not by Naomi) as a precautionary measure for the mission to find the island. If Des thinks that she is the rescue that Pen sent, he would do absolutely anything to help her.


Yes - that's the most logical explanation yet.

We know from the additional media such as 'Bad Twin' and 'The Lost Experience' that Widmore's business was associated with the Hanso Group and DHARMA. Possibly he was working against Hanso and helped the Hostiles to take over originally (supplying them with Gas and other weapons).

I'd guess that Widmore somehow arranged for Des to be 'exiled' to the Island in the past, to punish Des and get him once and for all out of Penny's life.

Then Ben decided to break from the external influences and 'hide' the Island from them. Hence the plan to have the Swan 'blow' and blame it for the cutoff with the outside world (loss of comms and sonar beacon). He could also have been manipulating the Losties into taking the blame for blowing up the 'Flame' and of course blowing up the sub, whereas all along it was him engineering events to make it 'impossible' for the outside world to get onto, and for the inhabitants to get off of, the Island.

Widmore needs to find the Island again and get its defences down, so he sends in Naomi under the pretence of a rescue mission for Des from Penny. He knows that Des will be open to helping Naomi.

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

I'm sorry but you are asking too much. I have to draw the line somewhere. :)

I have to agree that Penny and Naomi are working at cross purposes, but both working to find the island.

The strange thing is that she really didn't seem to care all that much when Charlie mentioned Desmond. He's supposedly been missing for years, yet in response to hearing that he's alive on a mystery island with plane crash survivors, she just says "oh he's there with you." That whole scene was weird. I agree that this scene was intended for us to to connect widmore with dharma.

I think I tried to comment on this earlier... I thought she was pretty excited to hear about Desmond...she said "is he there??" and then some other stuff that indicated she really wanted to talk to him. I mean what else could she do - jump through...hmm it is the looking glass. Maybe she will come through the vid phone and save Charlie... :biggrin:

I think I should go do something else for a while. :eek2:

The strange thing is that she really didn't seem to care all that much when Charlie mentioned Desmond. He's supposedly been missing for years, yet in response to hearing that he's alive on a mystery island with plane crash survivors, she just says "oh he's there with you." That whole scene was weird. I agree that this scene was intended for us to to connect widmore with dharma.Yeah I thought that was really screwy too. I'm going to have to rewatch that scene and pay more attention.

We know that Penny is looking for Desmond Actually we don't know that. We assume Penny is looking for the island through it's electromagnetic properties as shown at the end of season 2. Desmond was never mentioned. We just put it together ourselves that she was looking for Des. If Ben is actually telling the truth for once Penny could be one of the "bad" people searching for the island. Finding Des may have been a coincidence.

There's something strange afoot here .... looks to me like she was attempting to communicate with the Island/Looking Glass. Though it didn't seem that she was specifically expecting to find Desmond on the other end of the line as she seemed mighty surprised when Charlie said his name.

In the context of a mystery/scifi/fantasy show, wierd things like smoke monsters and mysterious healing are OK. However, Penny somehow randomly having a video call connected to the Looking Glass isn't credible.

I agree that Penny connecting to the Looking Glass is unusual, but the more and more I think about it, I would say the connection is anything but random. Hence our dilemma on this thread. I think what is being neglected is that Penny is contacting the island (Mikhail?) in the first place. Charlie only removed the transmission block--he didn't call Penny. It was an INCOMING TRANSMISSION. Why was Penny contacting--or trying to contact the island (or why was her transmission received by the Looking Glass)? It is not beyond the realm of possibility that she has been in contact with Mikhail for whatever reason, and she was alarmed when she could no longer contact him due to the blocking. In that case, it is not surprising that she would be frantically sending transmissions to re-establish contact. This is a scenario I am throwing out there to try to understand WHY her transmission was to the Looking Glass--there are many such scenarios one could devise.

That's the real oddity here--not the fact that her transmission was "conveniently" received when Charlie removed the block, but the fact that she had the knowledge of how to contact the Looking Glass. Was this her first time communicating with someone on the island? She sure seemed surprised to learn Charlie was on an island, but at the same time she was sure curious as how Charlie got the frequency.

Save the coincidence/suspension of disbelief debates for threads discussing the incredible coincidences of path-crossing during flashbacks. There's more here to discuss than coincidence, folks.

Exactly. After all these years would Penny really think Des was still alive and be actively searching for him? Heck they've probably already pronounced our Losties dead and they've only been gone three months. No I think it's much more logical to assume that Pen was not looking for Des but was trying to find the island instead. The big question would be "why?"

Another thing to ponder - did Charlie transmit into the past - and Penny then found Naomi and gave her what would otherwise be an important picture of her and Des. It would explain how Penny didnt know of a boat offshore (at that time) - but could still have a boat offshore.
This is what I'm thinking to. I think that this communication is what gave her the information she needed to start looking for electromagnetic anomolies, and eventually send Naomi's boat.

"Penny just happens to be sitting in front of a video phone?"

What's so strange about that? Why, I'm doing that right now.

Here's how it works. Penny's system is designed to alert her when a signal or line is "opened" or "clear." As soon as the line was clear it buzzed her and she went to the vp (video phone) and pressed "call." It's like a "call back" feature on your telephone. It's believable.

My Mac has one of those video thingys. Doesn't everyone's 'puter have one? Oh yeah, I forgot... "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a PC." Well, that explains everything.

Perhaps they suddenly noticed that transmission to the location those two guys in Antarctica picked up was suddenly possible and she was there to try it.

The strange thing is that she really didn't seem to care all that much when Charlie mentioned Desmond. He's supposedly been missing for years, yet in response to hearing that he's alive on a mystery island with plane crash survivors, she just says "oh he's there with you." That whole scene was weird. I agree that this scene was intended for us to to connect widmore with dharma.


I thought this too. She seemed way too casual about him. Like "I know he's there with you. I must act like I care." The emotions felt staged. I would have been jumping up and down and demanding to speak to him right then and there. Of course that's how most of the scenes regarding Desmond and Penny have played out for me. I just don't buy it that they like each other. It always falls flat.

Exactly. After all these years would Penny really think Des was still alive and be actively searching for him? Heck they've probably already pronounced our Losties dead and they've only been gone three months. No I think it's much more logical to assume that Pen was not looking for Des but was trying to find the island instead. The big question would be "why?"

We saw at the end of Season 2 that Penny knew Des was alive, living somewhere only detectable from a magnetic anomaly, and that she was actively searching for him. My guess is that her _Father_ knows all about the Island (Widmore has connections to Hanso from TLE/Bad Twin) from a past involvment there and is now trying to locate and secure it. As a result, Penny has been able to secretly obtain some information about Desmond being on the Island and the nature of the Island. As to why she is apparently trying to call the Looking Glass .. that's got me. Maybe she discovered the equipment in an office belonging to her Father in the course of her investigations and just happened to be there when the jamming Total guess, but the guys in the 'Ice Station' at the end of S2 were probably working for Widmore Sr. However Penny had bribed them to also tell her any information they gleaned. My guess is that Naomi is working for Widmore Sr. too, who knows Des is on the Island (possibly he had a hand in putting him there in the past). Widmore also knows that Des will help anyone who claims to be working for Penny to rescue him and so is using Des to help get past any obstacles (like the signal jamming) in his attempts to get access to the Island.

She sure seemed surprised to learn Charlie was on an island, but at the same time she was sure curious as how Charlie got the frequency.

See, that's the rub for me. Why was she curious about how he got the frequency? It was an incoming transmission, so unless the Looking Glass equipment somehow intercepted her signal, the whole thing makes no sense. Look at it this way: If you call someone on the phone, and get a wrong number, do you ask them how they got your number? I agree that there are more curious aspects to be examined here.

Isn't it possible that when Charlie turned off the blocking device, it simply alerted Penny's machine with a noise of some kind...a message stating channel now open or a beep or buzz or something that alerted her to come and look? If she's going through all that effort to find Des, wouldn't it seem reasonable that that machine would always stay on, searching endlessly until?

"Penny just happens to be sitting in front of a video phone?"

What's so strange about that? Why, I'm doing that right now.

Here's how it works. Penny's system is designed to alert her when a signal or line is "opened" or "clear." As soon as the line was clear it buzzed her and she went to the vp (video phone) and pressed "call." It's like a "call back" feature on your telephone. It's believable.

My Mac has one of those video thingys. Doesn't everyone's 'puter have one? Oh yeah, I forgot... "Hello, I'm a Mac. Hello, I'm a PC." Well, that explains everything.

Yes, but the issue is why she was trying to communicate with the Looking Glass in the first place. She must have been in a place kitted out with very specific comms gear (that video phone wasn't exactly a standard PC or Mac) designed specifically for establishing a link to that station/the Island. Why on earth would she be in a room with gear designed to communicate with the Island, waiting for a channel to become clear? The only innocent explanation as far as I can see is that she stumbled on the gear whilst nosying around her father's offices, looking for more evidence of Des' whereabouts (she suspects that her father has had him 'exiled' to the Island at some stage in the past). She's in this room and serendipitously the channel happens to clear (as Charlie stops the jamming) in time for a call to be established to the Looking Glass.

Isn't it possible that when Charlie turned off the blocking device, it simply alerted Penny's machine with a noise of some kind...a message stating channel now open or a beep or buzz or something that alerted her to come and look? If she's going through all that effort to find Des, wouldn't it seem reasonable that that machine would always stay on, searching endlessly until?

Quite possible.

Look at it this way: If you call someone on the phone, and get a wrong number, do you ask them how they got your number?

Perhaps she was surprised by Charlie being on the other end--she was expecting somebody else. Has she called somebody on the island before, but not realized that person was on an island? I'm stumped.

I always find it funny when small things like this are seen as far fetched when they can be explained quite simply (she just happened to be there) yet we are talking about a show with smoke monsters, purple skys and underground hatches that save the world.


:biggrin:

Its not so much that its farfetched...all though it is a little.

Its more that without explaining it, and allowing it to just sit there as a coincidence is a case of bad writing...somthing I don't expect from this pair of writers.

For me its more of a case of minor disapointment. In a episode that for me was almost perfect...this was a glaring error.

BTW - Anybody else think the room that Penny was in looked a little weird. The built in shelves behind her looked very boat like to me. Anybody else?

cheers

Its more that without explaining it, and allowing it to just sit there as a coincidence is a case of bad writing...somthing I don't expect from this pair of writers.

One person's error is another person's (delicious) mystery.

I can't undertand why this part of the show needs explaining but the other mysteries--Jack's conversation with Kate for starters--don't. I'm not saying that your perspective is wrong--only that, at this point, I don't understand it. :)

I think it would be a case of bad writing if no one were talking about it. And to me, it just seems pretty clear that this is no coincidence--Widmore is connected to Dharma--and all we don't know, at this point, is whether Penny has nefarious motives, whether she is looking for Desmond or looking to do something with that island, and whether she and Naomi were working together or at cross-purposes.

Actually we don't know that. We assume Penny is looking for the island through it's electromagnetic properties as shown at the end of season 2. Desmond was never mentioned. We just put it together ourselves that she was looking for Des. If Ben is actually telling the truth for once Penny could be one of the "bad" people searching for the island. Finding Des may have been a coincidence.

I say that we know she is looking for Desmond because it makes the most sense. She is looking for a mysterious island for some other reason and it just happens to be the place where Desmond crashed? Possible (see Yemi) but not probable given that she has already tracked him down once before in LA. It was also there that he told her he was going to race around the world to get his honor back, so that he would be good enough for her. I'm not 100% about his timeline (maybe Desmond isn't either at this point ;) ) but I think this is the last time that we see the two of them together.

Now, if you had just recently did a global search for the love of your life, and that person was going to race around the world for you, and they didn't come back -- I think that you would start a pretty serious search.

Also, when the Portuguese people detected the anomoly, they called her directly, at home, when she was in bed. If this was just business, I would think that there would be a few layers between guys freezing in a shack waiting for a computer to beep and the uber-rich running the company.

While we don't know that she's looking for Des, all of the evidence certainly points to it.

Isn't it possible that when Charlie turned off the blocking device, it simply alerted Penny's machine with a noise of some kind...a message stating channel now open or a beep or buzz or something that alerted her to come and look? If she's going through all that effort to find Des, wouldn't it seem reasonable that that machine would always stay on, searching endlessly until?

That's what I was thinking. Kind of like the two way radios. You enter someone's number, it makes their phone beep and they respond to you. Apparently, Charlie tuned into the frequency that connected to Penny.

I also think that Widmore and Dharma are/were working together. I think that when Ben overthrew and killed the Dharma people, he kept up the guise that Dharma was still functioning well so to the outside world (Widmore?) everything seemed OK. Supplies were being dropped and didn't the Others have Dharma food in their fridges? I'm guessing that part of the guise would be to jam the transmissions from the Looking Glass and tell the mainland/Widmore folks some line of bull as to why transmissions aren't getting through and with all the time that has passed, maybe Widmore Sr. has caught on and Penny has found out about this too.

Also, remember, that since the Swan imploded, at least according to Mikhail (I know he could be lying), they have lost communications and the sonar for the sub wasn't working. Maybe Naomi is part of a group from the Others on the mainland trying to reconnect back to the island? We've seen from Juliet's flashback that they have people on the mainland. It is possible that some of the people on the mainland that the Others work with have never been to the island.

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

How many small/large coincidences does it take before it becomes detrimental to the quality of the show? Maybe that's what the numbers are . . .

So, I can accept that Penny just happened to be sitting in front of a video phone, for whatever reason, fine. What really bugs me is the 1960's feel of it. I would have felt better if she was sitting in a sleek corporate office, some fancy lab, something. She looks like she is sitting in a cheezy 60's spy set, or some kind of gentlemen's club, or maybe something out of sherlock holms. I wouldn't have been surprised if some old geezy in a stuffy jacket with a white beard smoking a pipe had walked up behind her.

Am I to be suspending disbelief here or is Penny for some reason manning a late 1970 video phone somewhere on or off the island 24/7.

You are forgetting Henry Gale. Mr Widmore has been onto the Island ever since he lost Gale and his hot-air balloon. What I mean is, he had a clue where to look. So, when Penny wanted to track down Desmond, He simply went behind her back and bribed a few people.

So it wouldnt be far fetched that Penny would be using a video phone. (I'm positive Widmore and Hanso were once partners that had a falling out) I think she's using the equipment designed for her father myself! And if she did, it would be a Dharma Initiative type of equipment...70's styling :biggrin: IMHO, of course.

come on Penny, push them buttons! Or was it a rotary??? ;)

Well, I have to agree with those that we have to suspend disbelief while watching a show about the survivors of a plane crash (from a pretty high altitude) on a cloaked island where a handicapped man recovers the use of his legs, hallucinations give directives, and a smokey entity picks up a man and swings him around like a rag doll. Believing Penny is at the com station at a convenient point in time is child's play, really.

well said!

Am I to be suspending disbelief here or is Penny for some reason manning a late 1970 video phone somewhere on or off the island 24/7.

Try your best to suspend your belief a little. Come on.