I want to pose some questions on Jack's character developement for the general audience:

1- How can jack possibly grow and develope from this low point?

2- Does anyone else see this as a beginning step in a character arc that will end with Jack's redemption?

I want to start this off with saying that historically I have been a big fan of Jack. Jack represents to me what we all wish we could be: trustworthy, a leader, compassionate, etc. but all to the most extreme degree. Until this point, TPTB have kept Jack a pretty static / and unchanging character. From his father's death to Kate's choice, nothing has really broken him down or changed him.

In tonight's flashforward, this once respectable person was destroyed. It was almost like the writers took a hatchet to the character they've built before our eyes for most of the show. Instead of strength and purpose, Jack was lost and weak (both physically and mentally). I found it telling that a person who should have cared for him, should have showed at least an ounce of empathy for him, was completely cold and seemingly heartless (Kate. On a seperate note, what a terrible person! Her little jokes and comments were cold blooded).

I feel like Lost is a show that at its core should be uplifting and redemptive. Jack, as a central focus if not main character, must find a way to redemption. I believe this will be one of the central stories for the rest of Lost. And for the love of anything sacred, give the man something to be happy about.

What about you guys?

LOST is a show that at its core should be uplifting and redemptive?

Projecting a little bit, are we?

Man, doing what they did was a bad idea. I know it was dramatic and interesting to see Jack like that, but the lengths he has to go for redemption are so much to justify this. Not only that, but the reason why his life is in absolute RUINS since he left the island and Kate is completely stable(save a few tears) has to be huge. It can't be huge like, someone died...because he'd have no reason to go back. Maybe he and Kate got off and he ain't get everyone off or something...but Jesus. The man was a mess. I have no idea why they did this to their hero...it was a little much. He was an alcoholic, on drugs, AND suicidal. If he got that emotional becuase he felt guilty about leaving the other Losties...I don't know. That's bordering on ridiculous right there.

If this is the way the story ends, it's not going to be a happy ending. And it's also disappointing that that Jack and Kate aren't together in the future.

I guess I was hoping for a happy ending, but even if not, it's pretty upsetting to see Jack in such a state.

If this is the way the story ends, it's not going to be a happy ending. And it's also disappointing that that Jack and Kate aren't together in the future.

I guess I was hoping for a happy ending, but even if not, it's pretty upsetting to see Jack in such a state.

I feel confident that Jack's story is far from over and the state we saw him in during his flashforward will be point where the writers continue from for the rest of the series rather than an end point that they will it bring it to.

LOST is a show that at its core should be uplifting and redemptive?

Projecting a little bit, are we?

nope. "Live Together, Die Alone." TPTB have said this. it has been uplifting and redemptive for 3 seasons, do you think they will suddenly change the show?
100%
I want to pose some questions on Jack's character developement for the general audience:

1- How can jack possibly grow and develope from this low point?

2- Does anyone else see this as a beginning step in a character arc that will end with Jack's redemption?

I want to start this off with saying that historically I have been a big fan of Jack. Jack represents to me what we all wish we could be: trustworthy, a leader, compassionate, etc. but all to the most extreme degree. Until this point, TPTB have kept Jack a pretty static / and unchanging character. From his father's death to Kate's choice, nothing has really broken him down or changed him.

In tonight's flashforward, this once respectable person was destroyed. It was almost like the writers took a hatchet to the character they've built before our eyes for most of the show. Instead of strength and purpose, Jack was lost and weak (both physically and mentally). I found it telling that a person who should have cared for him, should have showed at least an ounce of empathy for him, was completely cold and seemingly heartless (Kate. On a seperate note, what a terrible person! Her little jokes and comments were cold blooded).

I feel like Lost is a show that at its core should be uplifting and redemptive. Jack, as a central focus if not main character, must find a way to redemption. I believe this will be one of the central stories for the rest of Lost. And for the love of anything sacred, give the man something to be happy about.

What about you guys?

I do not think it showed Jack at a point all that much lower than when his wife left him. Something definitely happened that left him battle-scarred, but then again, I know friends of friends who came back from Iraq and went through the same thing with painkillers and aimlessness. The only person Jack hurt in this episode was himself. Kate clearly has no pity for him anymore. Something is eating at him and this is the mystery that will be explained in season 4 or both seasons 4 and 5.

I want to pose some questions on Jack's character developement for the general audience:

1- How can jack possibly grow and develope from this low point?

2- Does anyone else see this as a beginning step in a character arc that will end with Jack's redemption?

I want to start this off with saying that historically I have been a big fan of Jack. Jack represents to me what we all wish we could be: trustworthy, a leader, compassionate, etc. but all to the most extreme degree. Until this point, TPTB have kept Jack a pretty static / and unchanging character. From his father's death to Kate's choice, nothing has really broken him down or changed him.

In tonight's flashforward, this once respectable person was destroyed. It was almost like the writers took a hatchet to the character they've built before our eyes for most of the show. Instead of strength and purpose, Jack was lost and weak (both physically and mentally). I found it telling that a person who should have cared for him, should have showed at least an ounce of empathy for him, was completely cold and seemingly heartless (Kate. On a seperate note, what a terrible person! Her little jokes and comments were cold blooded).

I feel like Lost is a show that at its core should be uplifting and redemptive. Jack, as a central focus if not main character, must find a way to redemption. I believe this will be one of the central stories for the rest of Lost. And for the love of anything sacred, give the man something to be happy about.

What about you guys?
Excellent post! The writers have said emphatically that Lost is a story of character development and personal redemption, so I have no doubt that this is the low point for Jack's character. Something terrible must have happened to make him doubt who he is, something that apparently didn't rock Kate the same way. He feels compelled to return to the island because he sees now, in light of whatever happened, that Ben (for once) was telling the truth and that Locke had been right about the island. He needs to go back to the island and have a "do over." I wonder if he needs the other Losties to go back with him? That might be a hard sell for them. Kate sure didn't look like she would consider it.

They always say you have to hit bottom before you can begin to climb back up. I think last night we saw the bottom for Jack. I don't know how much lower you can get than standing on a bridge, thinking about jumping. And he would have jumped, I think, if the accident hadn't happened. It was at that moment that we saw a little of the Jack we have come to know and love. He was in the moment of the most pain a person can be in, and yet he saved them. He could have just turned and jumped, but he didn't. He is far away from who he was, but the Jack we know isn't gone. He will have a long journey, though. He is truly lost.

I tend to agree that something happened during the "rescue." Maybe Jack and Kate and whoever else got away but the rest of them are still stuck on the island. Or maybe a lot of them were killed. Obviously, something happened to make Kate so cold toward Jack. Maybe she blames him for whatever happens.

I'll tell you one thing, this finale did its job. I'm even more anxious to see what they do next season than I was to see how this season would pan out at this time last year. They were right when they said everything would change!

Man, doing what they did was a bad idea. I know it was dramatic and interesting to see Jack like that, but the lengths he has to go for redemption are so much to justify this. Not only that, but the reason why his life is in absolute RUINS since he left the island and Kate is completely stable(save a few tears) has to be huge. It can't be huge like, someone died...because he'd have no reason to go back. Maybe he and Kate got off and he ain't get everyone off or something...but Jesus. The man was a mess. I have no idea why they did this to their hero...it was a little much. He was an alcoholic, on drugs, AND suicidal. If he got that emotional becuase he felt guilty about leaving the other Losties...I don't know. That's bordering on ridiculous right there.

What makes you think the other Losties were left behind in the flashforward we saw last night?

Jaysus, the show isn't over. Redemption, in the show as in life, comes through great suffering. In other words, there are three seasons left, and I'm quite sure Jack will get his redemption. In the meantime, he's in the crap hole. And so? For me, last night's show was painful but incredibly powerful. Matthew Fox got to wrap his acting chops around some very meaty material. And me, if I wanted easy answers, I'd watch repeats of Touched by an Angel.

As to "destroying" our "hero": I agree with others; we don't know what happened after the call went through on the phone. We didn't see them get off the island. For all we know, Jack, Kate, maybe Sawyer were the only ones who actually survived. We just don't know yet.

Plus, I like this show's commentary on heroism. True heroism requires incredible sacrifice; it's not picking up the phone to dial 9-1-1 to report a crime. True heroism can be as painful as it is redemptive; it involves tragedy and tragedy is not fun. Rather than question character development, I'd rather connect the dots the writers have provided me--i.e., Jack in great suffering - whatever we didn't see happen on the island = bad $hit happened on that island.

1- How can jack possibly grow and develope from this low point?
I don't believe this future is set in stone, I believe Jack can change it before it happens. He just needs to change his path (like Desmonds flashbacks, everything has to happen a certain way for this to be the future.)

Jaysus, the show isn't over.


Lol, too true.

They're hardly going to show us the future now, and then three seasons later have that as the future. We still have no idea of what the format is going to be for the next three seasons. If flashforward Jack was just this possible future that they've shown us. Or if we're going to focus on the post island Jack and Kate next season and what they're doing. Either way, I don't think it's fixed. The next three seasons will be about changing that future I wager.



I tend to agree that something happened during the "rescue." Maybe Jack and Kate and whoever else got away but the rest of them are still stuck on the island. Or maybe a lot of them were killed.


I get the impression from Jack's complete isolation, I mean shouldn't there be other people he could call to go back to the island other than Kate?, and his grief over someone who was neither friend or family, that Jack, Kate and the funeral person were the only people who made it off the island. Oh and also possibly the person Kate referred to as waiting for her. The only thing I can think off that would mess Jack up to that extreme is if everyone else died or were left behind.

But how do you guys think it will shape out? theories, ideas, etc. How can they move the character forward and regain some of what they, the writers, stripped from him in the finale?

Also, did anyone see the extreme similarities between his relationship with Sarah and the one with Kate? What could this mean?

Also, did anyone see the extreme similarities between his relationship with Sarah and the one with Kate? What could this mean?

Perhaps Jack and Kate got together after the rescue, but Jack's emotional problems drove Kate away as they once drove Sarah away.

Another thought regarding Jack's guilt: remember the real purpose of the Dharma project was to change the Valenzetti parameters and so prevent the imminent destruction of the world. Maybe Jack's actions interfered in some way, and the world will soon be destroyed. That would be something to feel guilty about!

Also, I agree that the body in the casket is probably Michael ("neither a friend nor a relative", in a run-down black area of LA, Kate not attending the funeral, etc.).

Did you notice all the maps in his apartment right before he called Kate?
He is desperately trying to find the island back. I still wonder why it is so hard to find.

Perhaps Jack and Kate got together after the rescue, but Jack's emotional problems drove Kate away as they once drove Sarah away.

Yeah, I think the biggest clue we got about Jack last night was that it might have been drinking that drove Sarah away. She asks him if he's been drinking again. She had the exasperated look of a woman whose been through a lot of late night stuff with Jack.

I've always wondered what happpened with them.

i feel like there was a reason for that flash-forward last night... TPTB wouldn't put that in just for a little something different -- they're putting it in there for a reason, not leaving us hanging, and are going to come back to it at some point. Plus there was no closure as to if that really was a flash-forward, or if it was a hypothetical, or.... whatever. TPTB don't disappoint, and I don't think the future of the show will depend on this. Either way, it was interesting and really neat to show us a different dimension of the show.

I think we were shown a possible future for Jack, had he been rescued at that time from the island. I think with each passing day on the island, his future will change depending on the choices he makes. I also think that some of it has to do with going through such a long, disturbing ordeal, secluded from the real world, and then just being plopped back into society. It will mess with your head, and that has a very bad effect on a lot of survivors.

I really think that there's a fine line between success and failure where Jack is concerned, but I also believe he will prevail in the end. If not, it's going to be one depressing end to the series.

Plus, I like this show's commentary on heroism. True heroism requires incredible sacrifice; it's not picking up the phone to dial 9-1-1 to report a crime. True heroism can be as painful as it is redemptive; it involves tragedy and tragedy is not fun. Rather than question character development, I'd rather connect the dots the writers have provided me--i.e., Jack in great suffering - whatever we didn't see happen on the island = bad $hit happened on that island.

Bingo!

Tragedy begets character development. Jack has a lot to wrestle with: whatever it was that happened on the island; his addiction; searching for answers; the desire to self-destruct; being hailed as a hero and not feeling it's deserved (remember, he was actually the cause of the car crash in which he saved that woman and child)...At his core, Jack is a heroic person, and heroism sometimes requires sacrifice and moral compromise, choosing bewteen terrible and horrible...Jack's suffering is his character development. I find it fascinating.

Cheers--
*hiccup*