It looks like Locke received the same powers as Desmond, and that the future we see of Jack is probably a different timeline. Did anyone else think that Locke would shoot Jack? I think Locke would of killed him if he wasn't needed by the island.

Does anyone remember back to the beginning of the season when Locke had his dreams in the sweat lodge. Did they have any relevence to the finale?

I think it's definitely something along those lines. That what we saw was only one of several possible futures.

to be honest though Locke is always saying things like this. We never know what he means! It's great to wonder though, isn't it? I love trying to figure out what Locke means and what he's thinking! He's amazing.

I am left with the impression that both Ben & Locke could foresee what Jack's decision would lead to.....I just hope that TPTB address it in the future.

I think with Locke he's never wanted to leave the island, and the whole "You're not supposed to do this" was just his feeling that Jack was making a mistake as Locke feeling that he and a number of Losties had found their fate on the island and this is how it supposed to be.

I don't think that Locke can see the future, what he did and said is completely in character with him knocking out Syiad in the first season and blowing up the sub this season. He doesn't want people to leave the island and will do/say whatever it takes to acomplish that.

When he said that, I immediately thought of the shop lady in Desmond's trip to the past, when she told him that he was supposed to give the ring back and not propose to Penny. It's like, they've been through this before somehow... :confused:

Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.

i think he said what he said to jack cause of what walt has just told him about having work to do. with jack gettin help, locke's "work" cant be done and he cannot cont to find himself...

Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.

starting to look like it isn't it :eek2:

Just how in tune with the island is Locke?

Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.

Yeah, and in the Answers clip show, they showed the part where Jack says he doesn't believe in destiny. And Locke says "yes you do. You just don't know it yet."

When he said that, I immediately thought of the shop lady in Desmond's trip to the past, when she told him that he was supposed to give the ring back and not propose to Penny. It's like, they've been through this before somehow... :confused:

Very much like the Dark Tower series by Stephen King, and yet another allusion to it.

I think it's just one of those things that Locke says now.

I think that when Jack got back to the mainland, he realized that things were different, and possibly something happened to push him off the wagon. I think he then started drinking and doing drugs at which point he started remembering Locke's ramblings about wanting to stay on the island.

YOU'RE
it's YOU'RE
as in "you are"

agh!

Anyhow, Locke has always said things of this nature. He believes in destiny and fate, and that there are things that are "supposed" to happen. I don't think it has anything to do with him having flashes like Desmond does. He just believes in certain things, and right now he believes that nobody is supposed to leave the island. He is speaking in a projecting-his-beliefs-on-others kind of way, not in an "I've seen the future" kind of way.

IMO - THAT was just ONE POSSIBLE future. I believe that in the remaining eppys. we will definitely see them back on the island. Jack is going to get Kate back there and he will do something to change this bleak future they have now. Jack "fixes things" and I think the remaining eppys. are going to focus on how Jack fixes (changes) everything - :biggrin: There is no way they would show us the END of the show, especially right now - and especially if that is what becomes of the HERO and his true love. I think Ben and Locke will have a lot to do with how Jack gets back to the Island and fixes/changes the future. I believe that Jack will fix everything somehow.DL

The whole idea of 'supposed to' for me comes back to the man of science man of faith.

Thinking that someone is supposed to do anything means that you believe in a pre-determined destiny - so welcome back to the free will vs. destiny debate.

Doesn't Locke also say "this isn't supposed to happen" when he's banging on the hatch in S1?

Yes but if Jack is trying to redo stuff from the past to fix won't the universe simply course correct itself?

I can deal with most anything—even Desmond's strange memories/flashes/visions/ of the future and of how his past led him where he is. But it would be absurd, not too mention way too confusing, if this turned into "Back to the Future II" and there are all sorts of alternate endings.

There's another thread on the "I'm tired of lying" quote by Jack that's addressing this part of the question better. But suffice it to say that, IMO, Jack and Kate do get "rescued" and go back to civilization. And in Jack's eyes, that was a big mistake and he's determined to get back to the island (for whatever reason) and "fix" it (however he'd do that).

As far as the comment above that showing us "the end" of the show would ruin it... that's the whole point! The "rescue" is not the "end" of the show. It's only the top of the bell curve, I think.

When he said that, I immediately thought of the shop lady in Desmond's trip to the past, when she told him that he was supposed to give the ring back and not propose to Penny. It's like, they've been through this before somehow... :confused:

Wow, I think you hit the nail on the head !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! It was on the tip of my tongue but I could't place it. I don't think that we had the whole Desmond - Shop lady episode for nothing. I believe that there will be a lot more of this "time - alternate ending" going on.

to be honest though Locke is always saying things like this. We never know what he means! It's great to wonder though, isn't it? I love trying to figure out what Locke means and what he's thinking! He's amazing.

It's actually what is frustrating about Locke. If he could just EXPLAIN what the heck he's talking about maybe mistakes could be avoided. I mean he makes this cryptic statement to Jack and just walks away. That's all the fight Locke is going to give, especially if it's a major life and death moment? Why not try to explain what he knows? Talk about how he was paralyzed and how he isn't anymore - Rose can back him up.

I'm tired of always trying to figure out what Locke means, but I guess it's part of the mystery and the journey.

Just how in tune with the island is Locke?

It's beginning to look like he's Very in tune.

Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.

I agree completely... makes Charlie's quote about Locke saving everyone very intriguing.

YOU'RE
it's YOU'RE
as in "you are"



Your absolutely right... more people should read you're post then they wouldn't be making all these silly grammar errors.

It's actually what is frustrating about Locke. If he could just EXPLAIN what the heck he's talking about maybe mistakes could be avoided. I mean he makes this cryptic statement to Jack and just walks away. That's all the fight Locke is going to give, especially if it's a major life and death moment? Why not try to explain what he knows? Talk about how he was paralyzed and how he isn't anymore - Rose can back him up.

I'm tired of always trying to figure out what Locke means, but I guess it's part of the mystery and the journey.

Even assuming that Locke knows the future, there's no way that Jack would believe him about it and put down the phone -- even if he were to believe about the paralysis. Locke knows that his only chance is "stop or i'll kill you." And for good measure he also tries "just trust me." Once he decides that he's not going to follow through and kill Jack, there's nothing to do but walk away... and figure out some other way to keep them from leaving.

It looks like Locke received the same powers as Desmond, and that the future we see of Jack is probably a different timeline. Did anyone else think that Locke would shoot Jack? I think Locke would of killed him if he wasn't needed by the island.

Does anyone remember back to the beginning of the season when Locke had his dreams in the sweat lodge. Did they have any relevence to the finale?

Locke did say the same thing in season two right after they found the hatch. Desmond has the gun to Locke's head and Jack is in the standoff with Kate in the airduct.

I was hoping that someone would have answered my question, so I'll ask it again. What happened in the sweat lodge episode when Boone was speaking to Locke at the airport. He was making predictions, did any come true?

Even assuming that Locke knows the future, there's no way that Jack would believe him about it and put down the phone -- even if he were to believe about the paralysis.

Well, not after knifing Naomi, no. It's hard to listen to Locke when he chooses the most inopportune times to show himself. (Granted, he was in a bit of dead people with a bullet in his gut, but still.)

Locke knows that his only chance is "stop or i'll kill you." And for good measure he also tries "just trust me." Once he decides that he's not going to follow through and kill Jack, there's nothing to do but walk away... and figure out some other way to keep them from leaving.

I disagree. Jack had not made the call yet. In fact, Jack was waiting on Locke for a good long while. There was no reason to drop his cryptic message and walk away. Although, I agree that once Jack heard the voice on the other end of the walkie, I doubt ANYONE would have let it go. The rest of the Castaways were thrilled too.

What's kind of upsetting about the finale is that the "mistake" is something that anyone in their right mind would have done. How do you not want to make a call to the outside world when you've been stuck on craphole island for three months? How do you believe the word of a man like Ben who has murdered, kidnapped, tortured, drugged, and lied his way to the season finale?

The mistake is not an obvious mistake. In fact, it's possible that the mistake is not the call, itself, but the aftermath. Eh, more speculation.:undecide:

Locke has said things were supposed to happen on many occasions. I have come to expect Locke to speak in that way. I actually saw the line coming as soon as he walked out of the forest with a gun pointed at jack.

I disagree. Jack had not made the call yet. In fact, Jack was waiting on Locke for a good long while. There was no reason to drop his cryptic message and walk away. Although, I agree that once Jack heard the voice on the other end of the walkie, I doubt ANYONE would have let it go. The rest of the Castaways were thrilled too.

What's kind of upsetting about the finale is that the "mistake" is something that anyone in their right mind would have done. How do you not want to make a call to the outside world when you've been stuck on craphole island for three months? How do you believe the word of a man like Ben who has murdered, kidnapped, tortured, drugged, and lied his way to the season finale?

The mistake is not an obvious mistake. In fact, it's possible that the mistake is not the call, itself, but the aftermath. Eh, more speculation.:undecide:

I disagree about Jack... he had made up his mind to make the call and was daring Locke to shoot him to stop him (that's why he waited so long). Jack was Going to call, and Locke recognized that.

I do agree that it was the only decision Jack could make though... looking through his eyes, you Have to call.

And I don't believe that jack's "mistake" that he becamse a drug-addicted alcoholic over... he was that way because he wanted to go back to the island. Something about that island is just Much better than what he has back in the real world.

I was hoping that someone would have answered my question, so I'll ask it again. What happened in the sweat lodge episode when Boone was speaking to Locke at the airport. He was making predictions, did any come true?

They did, but in that same episode... he told John that he had to go save Eko. And Locke did. The only thing that seems "prophetic" is where Boone said "I'm here to help you find your way again. So you can bring the family back together."

That sounds kinda like he is meant to bring the Others together instead of being split over Ben's leadership.

to be honest though Locke is always saying things like this. We never know what he means! It's great to wonder though, isn't it? I love trying to figure out what Locke means and what he's thinking! He's amazing.

It's actually what is frustrating about Locke. If he could just EXPLAIN what the heck he's talking about maybe mistakes could be avoided. I mean he makes this cryptic statement to Jack and just walks away. That's all the fight Locke is going to give, especially if it's a major life and death moment? Why not try to explain what he knows? Talk about how he was paralyzed and how he isn't anymore - Rose can back him up.

I'm tired of always trying to figure out what Locke means, but I guess it's part of the mystery and the journey.

This is what I also find about Locke. He's alway exasperated me with all his cryptic statements, but I didn't appreciate what he had said to Jack until the ending. There seems to be a method to his madness and this wouldn't be LOST if TPTB didn't slowwwwly reveal what the meaning behind those cryptic statements are.

But the thing with Locke is that back when he didn't actually know anything, he just wouldn't shut up about how special the island was, always giving advice, and explaining everything he knew. Secrets he kept were about himself, like his paralysis and was reluctant at first to tell anyone what he did for a living.
Shocking that he expects to get something with his "you're not supposed to do this" bit, when he used to get really worked up when people told him "you can't do this". It's pretty much the same thing.

But the thing with Locke is that back when he didn't actually know anything, he just wouldn't shut up about how special the island was, always giving advice, and explaining everything he knew.

I'm starting to wonder if this is true or not. He knew when it was going to raina nd never told anyone how. And he apparently knows that "the island" doesn't like all of the modern conveniences ("refrigerators" and such) and he never told anyone that until he confronted Ben.

I'm beginning to think that he knows a lot more than he has been letting on. he killed Naomi with no hesitation, that means that he knows that she was a large threat. Di Walt tell him, or did he already know?

Shocking that he expects to get something with his "you're not supposed to do this" bit

That's why he had to threaten to kill Jack.

True, he was mysterious in the beginning too. But the more he knows, the less he lets on. And he had a chance to explain himself right then and didn't take it, much like Ben but he's still one of the Losties, some of them would have listened.
100%
And I see why he threatened Jack but seems to have given up on him/them when that failed. He should have said something else then.

even before he arrived on the island, Locke has a sense of his destiny and how things should play out.
i wouldnt call it seeing the future, rather an idea of the journey he is on. he thinks it's all happening for a reason.

here are some quotes -

S1 E4 ( walkabout - when he wasnt allowed to go into the outback, before he arrived on teh island )
"Hey, hey, don't your walk away from me. You don't know who you're dealing with. Don't ever tell me what I can't do, ever. This is destiny. This is destiny. This is... This is my destiny. This... I'm supposed to do this dammit! Don't tell me what I can't do. Don't tell me what I can't..."

S1 E19 Deus ex machina - "This was supposed to work. This was supposed to work!"
"That's impossible. We didn't find this by accident. We're supposed to..."
"I don't know, Boone, but we're supposed to go to this place. We're supposed to find that plane. Will you come with me?"

S2 E3 - "This isn't... this isn't what was supposed to happen!"
"Jack. Why is this happening like this? What do you want? What do you... What am I supposed to do?!"

S2 E3 - "I'm going in there because I'm supposed to go in there." [into the polar bear cave]

it also reminded me of Ms hawkings. i wouldnt say locke was a course corrector, he just sometimes has a sense of how things should happen, walt i believe has a similar gift too.
the other thing to consider is that we havent seen the full exchange between locke and walt, that may shed some light on locke's statement too.

I think that Locke's vision of Walt (I don't think that was the "real" Walt, but one never knows with LOST *lol*...still I think it was a vision, and it might have been the real Walt in the sense of it might have been Walt himself telepathically projecting himself as a vision to communicate with John because he [Walt] is "special" and could tell Locke needed him at that moment, but I digress...) went on after the "You've got work to do." Walt must have told him what he needed to do. Or maybe he told him something like "listen to the island", and then the island or Jacob or whatever communicated to him.

Whatever happened, Locke seemed very, very clear and specific in his mission. What troubles me, as a Locke fan, is that he threw that knife into Naomi's back without missing a beat, like nothing was more important than stopping her from communicating with her people. I sure hope that "the island" let him in on just how evil her peeps are or something of that nature, so that his act of throwing a knife into her back was not as cold, violent or brutal as it seemed. If Locke is privy to knowing that Naomi's people are evil incarnate or something (a.k.a., the shadowy and chilling Hanso/Widmore/Piek off-island Other axis of evil, who might be the true initiators of the Dharma Initiative, versus "the hostiles" like Richard Alpert and Ben who have taken over the helm and consider themselves "the good guys"), he might also have been told or shown in a vision that contacting them could result in, as Ben said, the death of "every living person on this island!" So it must be (I hope, for the sake of Locke's karma!) that Locke is sure he is saving everyone and that is why he felt he HAD to do whatever was necessary, up to and including killing Naomi, to stop that phone call. Yet he couldn't shoot Jack. Because Locke is not a cold-blooded killer and he knows and loves Jack (even though they frustrate each other and butt heads all the time, you don't go through everything they've gone through together and not have some love there) and he just can't kill him, so he just BEGS him not to do it, saying "You're not supposed to do this!"

That's my take on it, anyway.

I think, and have thought for quite some time, that Locke has an awareness of the future. I'm not sure it in the same form as Desmond's flashes, but I think it is more than just a sense of destiny that propells him. He has knowledge that is more concrete than that somehow.

While I'm not sure I think it is the case, I'm really not opposed to the idea that Locke has been having flashes like Desmond though, at least during Season 3. I mean, keep in mind that Locke was right there in the Hatch when it blew. Not only that, but he was right there in the epicenter just above where Desmond turned the key. We never got an explanation of why nothing happened to Charlie and Eko. It seems like they were on their way toward the front door when the hatch blew--maybe they got out. Either way, we know Locke was there, so I think its logical to assume that he's had some sort of experience equivalent, if not identical, to Desmond's.

Maybe Desmond's flashes aren't visions of the future, but memories of past cycles on the island. Could it be that Locke's communion with the island has simply given him a better handle on his visions to where he sees them for what they are, memories of past attempts to save the island that failed?

Its by no means a bulletproof theorey (if there is such a thing), but it seems plausible, and would explain a thing or two.

I was hoping that someone would have answered my question, so I'll ask it again. What happened in the sweat lodge episode when Boone was speaking to Locke at the airport. He was making predictions, did any come true?


I dont remember, but I will second your motion for an answer to the question. It seems relevant...

Yet he couldn't shoot Jack. Because Locke is not a cold-blooded killer and he knows and loves Jack (even though they frustrate each other and butt heads all the time, you don't go through everything they've gone through together and not have some love there) and he just can't kill him.

Something else that hasn't been mentioned that I've noticed: At the point Locke pulled the gun on Jack, the phone was already ringing, wasn't it? If he HAD shot Jack (and I agree he COULD not, based on their relationship), it would have been quite the slippery slope: he then would have had to shoot anyone who attempted to pick up the ringing phone. Kate? Sun? Claire? Where would he have drawn the line?

Although he is "on his own journey" now, these are still the closest thing to family he's got. He couldn't have shot any one of them.

I was hoping that someone would have answered my question, so I'll ask it again. What happened in the sweat lodge episode when Boone was speaking to Locke at the airport. He was making predictions, did any come true?

Lostpedia has a section on this that you may find helpful.
http://en.lostpedia.com/wiki/Locke%27s_dream The comment about Desmond helping himself gave me a little chill as I thought of Desmond's unseen flash and Charlie's sacrifice.

It's not just that Locke said it, it's the way he said it. It was pleading with Jack, and matter of fact about the situation all at the same time.

But the problem is, those kinds of comments need explanation to be qualified, and if they are not, nobody would pay any attention to them.

Maybe LOST is really about Ben and Locke learning how to explain themselves in an uncryptic manner, and the last episode will have them communicating with people efficiently!!! :)

I disagree about Jack... he had made up his mind to make the call and was daring Locke to shoot him to stop him (that's why he waited so long). Jack was Going to call, and Locke recognized that.

I agree with you on this point, but Jack's attitude was also based on the fact that Locke had just blown up the submarine preventing Jack from leaving. "I'm sorry, Jack" has been said one too many times for Jack to not stand up to him, even if it means getting killed.

I do agree that it was the only decision Jack could make though... looking through his eyes, you Have to call. Agreed. Anyone in that same situation would have made the call.

And I don't believe that jack's "mistake" that he becamse a drug-addicted alcoholic over... he was that way because he wanted to go back to the island. Something about that island is just Much better than what he has back in the real world. I disagree. We've seen Jack overcome so many things on the island, with people he barely knew. I don't believe that Jack thinks the island is a better place for him. It isn't. What's great about the island? It's brought Jack nothing but pain (physical and emotional), stress, anxiety, danger, etc. If something so trivial as being off the island could have forced him into drugs and alcohol, then Jack would have caved immediately when he was kidnapped and interrogated by Ben. He didn't. He completely turned the tables on them. When the Others came to kidnap the women, Jack decided to fight back with full force - the first time Jack ever made the decision to kill the Others. Jack doesn't crumble over the big decisions.

I think whatever happened to send Jack into such a downward spiral is directly linked to something that happened to the Castaways, either some of them or all of them. Jack would not be so despondent over not being on the island anymore. He certainly wouldn't be so upset over something that happened to him, personally. Something happened to shake Jack to his core, and the only thing that sends Jack over the edge, from what we've witnessed in the past three years, is when something happens to the people he cares about that is beyond his control (Charlie's hanging, Claire's abduction, Michael taking off on his own to go after the Others, Kate endangering her life, Sawyer and Kate in danger, Boone's injuries, etc.).

If Jack believes that his actions (or lack of action) resulted in a dismal future, death, or end for the Losties, this would send Jack into a black hole. Jack doesn't forgive himself for things. He's his own worse enemy.

This is what I also find about Locke. He's alway exasperated me with all his cryptic statements, but I didn't appreciate what he had said to Jack until the ending. There seems to be a method to his madness and this wouldn't be LOST if TPTB didn't slowwwwly reveal what the meaning behind those cryptic statements are.

Very true. It's part of the essence of Lost. However, I can't fault Jack for not believing a word that comes out of John's mouth.


Yet he couldn't shoot Jack. Because Locke is not a cold-blooded killer and he knows and loves Jack (even though they frustrate each other and butt heads all the time, you don't go through everything they've gone through together and not have some love there) and he just can't kill him, so he just BEGS him not to do it, saying "You're not supposed to do this!"

That's my take on it, anyway.

I tend to agree with you on this point. I actually think there is a deep affection (buried VERY deep) between these two men. They don't understand each other in some regards, but I don't believe that they would want to murder each other.

When John was struggling with the choice to shoot Jack, and then he lowers his gun, you can hear the pain and desperation in his voice when he says, "Jack." It's not said with anger or disgust, but pain.

I think John believes that he and Jack WERE destined to do something, and perhaps John doesn't know what that something is, but he believes there is a destiny for them. Jack is not ready to believe in destiny (but I have a feeling he will ;).)

Something else that hasn't been mentioned that I've noticed: At the point Locke pulled the gun on Jack, the phone was already ringing, wasn't it? If he HAD shot Jack (and I agree he COULD not, based on their relationship), it would have been quite the slippery slope: he then would have had to shoot anyone who attempted to pick up the ringing phone. Kate? Sun? Claire? Where would he have drawn the line?

This is why I have a hard time believing that the "mistake" is Jack making the call. ANYONE would have made that call. If Jack had been shot or wounded, Kate would have picked up the phone or Claire or Sun or anyone else who wanted to get rescued. If you have a radio in your hand, and there is a clear voice on the other end saying that they have a freighter off shore, you answer it.

Of course, your on the Lost Island where everything is backwards and upside down. :redface:

It's not just that Locke said it, it's the way he said it. It was pleading with Jack, and matter of fact about the situation all at the same time.

But the problem is, those kinds of comments need explanation to be qualified, and if they are not, nobody would pay any attention to them.

I agree. You can't keep making these cryptic, mysterious comments without backing them up with something. Ben has played that card one too many times, and when he is FINALLY telling the truth, who is going to believe him?

Locke is privy to some pretty interesting information about the island, and he has yet to share it with anyone. All of these secrets and lack of communication on the part of ALL the Castaways (and Ben) is the real mistake that is being made.

Maybe LOST is really about Ben and Locke learning how to explain themselves in an uncryptic manner, and the last episode will have them communicating with people efficiently!!! :)LOL! Then the show would be over. You could be right.

I disagree. We've seen Jack overcome so many things on the island, with people he barely knew. I don't believe that Jack thinks the island is a better place for him. It isn't. What's great about the island? It's brought Jack nothing but pain (physical and emotional), stress, anxiety, danger, etc. If something so trivial as being off the island could have forced him into drugs and alcohol, then Jack would have caved immediately when he was kidnapped and interrogated by Ben. He didn't. He completely turned the tables on them. When the Others came to kidnap the women, Jack decided to fight back with full force - the first time Jack ever made the decision to kill the Others. Jack doesn't crumble over the big decisions.


Your question "what's so great about the island?" I think will play a large part in the final 3 seasons.

You say that you don't think that Jack believes that the island is a better place for him... and right now, on the island, you are correct. But, off-island, his entire speech to Kate was explaining that he wants back on the island. He flies around hoping the plane will crash back there. His error... was leaving the island. Why does he believe that? Even if you put aside the possible "magic box" nature of the island, off-island he's been a pathetic, ex-wife-obsessed, self-absorbed lttle boy who can't move past what his father thought of him, but on-island he's moved past his ex, dealt with his daddy issues and iis the leader of the Lostaways and doing a not-too-bad job of it.
And then in the flash forward... he's still concerned about his father, and back to feeling bad around his ex-wife. And now he's an alcoholic drug user.

I think that although island life is difficult, it's been better to Jack than the "real" world. Ben was correct in asking him why he would want to go back... he's more on-island than off of it.

Your question "what's so great about the island?" I think will play a large part in the final 3 seasons.

You say that you don't think that Jack believes that the island is a better place for him... and right now, on the island, you are correct. But, off-island, his entire speech to Kate was explaining that he wants back on the island. He flies around hoping the plane will crash back there. His error... was leaving the island. Why does he believe that? Even if you put aside the possible "magic box" nature of the island, off-island he's been a pathetic, ex-wife-obsessed, self-absorbed lttle boy who can't move past what his father thought of him, but on-island he's moved past his ex, dealt with his daddy issues and iis the leader of the Lostaways and doing a not-too-bad job of it.
And then in the flash forward... he's still concerned about his father, and back to feeling bad around his ex-wife. And now he's an alcoholic drug user.

I think that although island life is difficult, it's been better to Jack than the "real" world. Ben was correct in asking him why he would want to go back... he's more on-island than off of it.

I can see your point when you view it terms of upcoming seasons. However, as of this moment, at the end of season three, Jack does not believe in the island or it's powers or mysticism. I have no doubt that he will learn about it.

However, I don't believe that Jack's life is terrible because he's back in the real world or because of his daddy or Sarah. Something happened. Something very specific and something very bad. I think Jack believes that going back to the island can undo a chain of events.

I think time travel or some alternate change is very possible. Damon and Carlton have been dropping little clues with Desmond throughout all of season three. If it weren't a possibility then why would Jack WANT to get back to the island? What does he think will happen if he gets back? Obviously, he feels something can be undone, and for me, that must mean some way of altering events or changing time.

I can see your point when you view it terms of upcoming seasons. However, as of this moment, at the end of season three, Jack does not believe in the island or it's powers or mysticism. I have no doubt that he will learn about it.


I agree completely and I'm curious as to how long it will take for him to eventually learn about and accept the island's powers.

However, I don't believe that Jack's life is terrible because he's back in the real world or because of his daddy or Sarah. Something happened. Something very specific and something very bad. I think Jack believes that going back to the island can undo a chain of events.


That's certainly possible. One possible explanation which wa sone of the first that I thought of was that maybe he convinced Rose to leave the island and it was her that ended up dying (from cancer).

I think time travel or some alternate change is very possible. Damon and Carlton have been dropping little clues with Desmond throughout all of season three. If it weren't a possibility then why would Jack WANT to get back to the island? What does he think will happen if he gets back? Obviously, he feels something can be undone, and for me, that must mean some way of altering events or changing time.

Or maybe he feels that whomever died Wouldn't have died on the island. But, I bet it's a combination of a few things.

That's certainly possible. One possible explanation which wa sone of the first that I thought of was that maybe he convinced Rose to leave the island and it was her that ended up dying (from cancer).

Or maybe he feels that whomever died Wouldn't have died on the island. But, I bet it's a combination of a few things.

I agree. I think that after Jack returns to the real world, the Losties start dying off one by one. It would explain why Kate isn't anxious to return to the island. She believes that the deaths are natural or accidental. Jack, however, believes that it's a direct result of their leaving the island.

I believe that the deaths or dying of most of the Losties, after they return home, is what sends Jack into a suicidal, drug-addicted tail spin. In my opinion, it's the only thing that would drive him so over the edge and make him so desperate to get back. This, in turn, leads me to believe that events CAN be reversed to some extent.

Geez, February can't come soon enough. :frown:

I agree. I think that after Jack returns to the real world, the Losties start dying off one by one. It would explain why Kate isn't anxious to return to the island. She believes that the deaths are natural or accidental. Jack, however, believes that it's a direct result of their leaving the island.

I believe that the deaths or dying of most of the Losties, after they return home, is what sends Jack into a suicidal, drug-addicted tail spin. In my opinion, it's the only thing that would drive him so over the edge and make him so desperate to get back. This, in turn, leads me to believe that events CAN be reversed to some extent.

Geez, February can't come soon enough. :frown:

It'll be stinkin' December before we even get the DVD's... The beauty of rerun-less programming.

I say Locke should of shot the SOB! You know, point blank... Heck, seeing as how it all turns out, Jack would have wanted it that way.
100%
you know. just offed the bitch...

Notice that when Locke says the line of the thread title, Jack seems to almost believe him and considers listening further to what Locke says, but then Jack receives an answer from the phone and acts on it.

Notice that when Locke says the line of the thread title, Jack seems to almost believe him and considers listening further to what Locke says, but then Jack receives an answer from the phone and acts on it.

I did notice that, and I don't think that Jack is completely closed off to Locke, but John is just so unpredictable (blowing up the submarine, deciding to stay with the Others, lets Kate be gassed). Now, he kills Naomi with a knife in the back. How would anyone in their right mind respond to John?

Also, Locke walks away as Jack is talking (I think). Frankly, if Locke really knows how dire it is that Jack not make the call, I agree with many other posters, Locke should have tackled Jack or something, even if it's just for the purpose of breaking the phone.

I'm not convinced that the "mistake" that leads to Jack's state of mind in the flashforward is the phone call, per se. It could be something that happens later in season four that becomes the catalyst for the horrible state we saw Jack in in the finale.

Also, Locke walks away as Jack is talking (I think). Frankly, if Locke really knows how dire it is that Jack not make the call, I agree with many other posters, Locke should have tackled Jack or something, even if it's just for the purpose of breaking the phone.


Locke knows Jack though... once the call began, Jack was not going to give up on it (we all know how he is too) so I think that Locke left to just move on to the next thing. Sort of an "ok, that didn't work, time to start preparing our defenses" or something. The Others have all sorts of weapons and I think that Locke left to go start preparing for the coming war.

Locke knows Jack though... once the call began, Jack was not going to give up on it (we all know how he is too) so I think that Locke left to just move on to the next thing. Sort of an "ok, that didn't work, time to start preparing our defenses" or something. The Others have all sorts of weapons and I think that Locke left to go start preparing for the coming war.

I know, but if the phone call is the horrible thing that results in the flashforward, I would have thought Locke would have done more to prevent it. I mean, he's been blowing up things and chasing and killing people to prevent getting off the island. Of course, I am happy that Locke didn't shoot Jack. As much as people love to see these two go head to head, I miss the season one Jack and Locke moments. I actually first thought that Locke would become the father figure (in a way) to Jack that he never got from Christian. Oh well.

I agree with you in the sense that once Jack hears a real live person "off island," how could he NOT answer the call? It's almost like a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't moment.

I think that Jack and Locke may ultimately end up working together towards a common destiny by series end. Who knows, they may actually end up friends. :redface:

I know, but if the phone call is the horrible thing that results in the flashforward, I would have thought Locke would have done more to prevent it.

I agree, so I don't think that the phone call is "it" either.

Sorry if this is a dumb question....but why didn't Locke just shoot the phone? He fired a warning shot pretty near to it, so why not just empty the gun into the thing?

Sorry if this is a dumb question....but why didn't Locke just shoot the phone? He fired a warning shot pretty near to it, so why not just empty the gun into the thing?

I was thinking that same thing, but I don't think that Locke is that good a shot. I mean, even if he Hit the phone there was no guarantee that he wouldn't take Jack's hand with it.

I was thinking that same thing, but I don't think that Locke is that good a shot. I mean, even if he Hit the phone there was no guarantee that he wouldn't take Jack's hand with it.

But the phone was just laying on the ground at this point :confused: That's a pretty big ol' phone and Locke wasn't standing that far away.

Wouldn't Jack's hand be a small price to pay for keeping them all on the island? heh heh :biggrin:

I don't think Locke has inherited Desmond's ability. It's more likely that Jacob is communicating with him through Walt.

I know, but if the phone call is the horrible thing that results in the flashforward, I would have thought Locke would have done more to prevent it. I mean, he's been blowing up things and chasing and killing people to prevent getting off the island. Of course, I am happy that Locke didn't shoot Jack. As much as people love to see these two go head to head, I miss the season one Jack and Locke moments. I actually first thought that Locke would become the father figure (in a way) to Jack that he never got from Christian. Oh well.

I agree with you in the sense that once Jack hears a real live person "off island," how could he NOT answer the call? It's almost like a damned if he does, damned if he doesn't moment.

I think that Jack and Locke may ultimately end up working together towards a common destiny by series end. Who knows, they may actually end up friends. :redface:


Locke thinks he is supposed to do a lot of things, like send Boone up into the plane, let the hatch go into implode mode, beat up Charlie (and Mikhail but that was the right move). Some things he gets right, some things he doesn't. He is learning more and more about the island and as a man of faith is more in tune with what the island wants to teach him. He knows he doesn't want anyone to leave the island and we have no reason to believe that he knows why, but he is figuring it out with each new event. Jack did hesitate when Locke tried to talk him out of the phone, but Jack was so focused on getting off the island and so responsible for his people that he couldn't chuck it all because Locke said you're not supposed to do this. Locke wasn't going to shoot Jack over a feeling, something Locke wasn't sure of, the island didn't tell him to do it, it never is that direct. I heard doubt in Locke's voice and sadness when he told Jack, and Terry is a really good actor so we have to take those kind of cues.

I do believe Jack is slowly moving to a balance with being a man of faith and maybe his dive into the deep end in the flash forward is regret that he didn't make the same journey of faith in the island that Locke is on and done it faster. They do have a lot in common.

I do believe Jack is slowly moving to a balance with being a man of faith and maybe his dive into the deep end in the flash forward is regret that he didn't make the same journey of faith in the island that Locke is on and done it faster. They do have a lot in common.

...which is why Locke said earlier that Jack is a man of faith, just that he "doesn't know it yet" -- it may be that the "yet" comes too late for Jack. As someone else said on a thread, it is all about choices prople make and when they make them.

And, TPTB have stated, in effect, that the key to LOST is seeing how these characters change (or not) based on their experiences on the Island.

It's actually what is frustrating about Locke. If he could just EXPLAIN what the heck he's talking about maybe mistakes could be avoided. ...
The same applies to Ben as well. Neither of them want anyone to get off the island, but neither one will say why?

Is it possible that Jacob has been in touch with Locke from close to the beginning in some manner? Locke has been doing seemingly counterproductive things (cold cocking Sayid when he had a chance to communicate, blowing up the sub) but we don't know, yet, why he does these things. I suppose you could say it is selfish on his part. He doesn't want to leave because the island healed his paralysis, but then why doesn't he just stay? Why jepordize everyone else's chances of rescue too? Locke knows something the rest of the Losties don't know and Ben knows the same thing. I think in Jack's flash forward he has come to understand as well which is why he wants to go back to the island.

Sorry if this is a dumb question....but why didn't Locke just shoot the phone? He fired a warning shot pretty near to it, so why not just empty the gun into the thing?

Maybe Jack was supposed to NOT answer the phone, a la "Jack has to push the button" from season two.

Sorry if this is a dumb question....but why didn't Locke just shoot the phone? He fired a warning shot pretty near to it, so why not just empty the gun into the thing? Maybe he was aiming for the phone but missed. It isn't easy to aim accurately with a handgun. But I agree, he could have tried again, aiming at the phone in Jack's hand.

I found it interesting that when Locke says this to Jack, that Jack has a pause and looks like he seriously thinks about not making the call, and like he is somewhat intrigued by Locke's statement. This is probably the big moment of regret that Jack will have once we get to the point of his flash-forward.

Argh ... Am I the only one who was wondering how Jack got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower AND why he got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower? I mean, this is a huge island. What reason did Jack have for going there? I don't remember anyone informing Jack of what was happening. Maybe Walt/Jacob. But still, I almost had to laugh when he showed up. Way to coincidental.

You mean Locke?

Argh ... Am I the only one who was wondering how Jack got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower AND why he got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower? I mean, this is a huge island. What reason did Jack have for going there? I don't remember anyone informing Jack of what was happening. Maybe Walt/Jacob. But still, I almost had to laugh when he showed up. Way to coincidental.


***In my best Matthew McConaughy voice from Dazed and Confused*** Patience darling, patience. ***Disengage lame Dazed and Confused Impression***

I get the feeling that this will be our first flashback for next year. A flashback on the island of what took place from when Locke saw Walt up to when he killed Naomi.

A while since I've been here, but have people forgotten the comment that Terry made about the John Locke action figure? A loong time before the final.. :P

walterneff,
I know that's in the works. My thoughts............................I think if they make John Locke an action figure, he should come with a little gun to shoot himself.

Cheers,

(sorry for picking the first Locke thread i saw)

A while since I've been here, but have people forgotten the comment that Terry made about the John Locke action figure? A loong time before the final.. :P

walterneff,
I know that's in the works. My thoughts............................I think if they make John Locke an action figure, he should come with a little gun to shoot himself.

Cheers,

(sorry for picking the first Locke thread i saw)


Well, now I know not to read any interviews with Terry O' Quinn aka Spoilers McGee.

You mean Locke?

Yea ... long night. Let me repost:

Argh ... Am I the only one who was wondering how Locke got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower AND why he got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower? I mean, this is a huge island. What reason did Locke have for going there? I don't remember anyone informing Locke of what was happening. Maybe Walt/Jacob. But still, I almost had to laugh when he showed up. Way to coincidental.

There, that makes more sense...
And while I'm thinking about it, Locke's killing of Naomi, who I think was a "bad guy" and one of the "bad guys" from the boat that is full of "bad guys" as Ben says, points to Locke having this information about the "bad guys". So who gave it to him? Walt? Jacob? Or did he always have it? I'm thinking its related to what Walt said, that Locke needed to get up because they had a lot of work to do. I'm guessing Jacob is using Walt or Walt's image to communicate with Locke. Locke may become the island's savior while Ben, who has not been doing a good job of holding off the Losties as they blow up hatches and subs, ends up loosing his position to Locke. Now, what that means I have no idea.

Yea ... long night. Let me repost:

Argh ... Am I the only one who was wondering how Locke got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower AND why he got out of the pit and crawled to the radio tower? I mean, this is a huge island. What reason did Locke have for going there? I don't remember anyone informing Locke of what was happening. Maybe Walt/Jacob. But still, I almost had to laugh when he showed up. Way to coincidental.

There, that makes more sense...
And while I'm thinking about it, Locke's killing of Naomi, who I think was a "bad guy" and one of the "bad guys" from the boat that is full of "bad guys" as Ben says, points to Locke having this information about the "bad guys". So who gave it to him? Walt? Jacob? Or did he always have it? I'm thinking its related to what Walt said, that Locke needed to get up because they had a lot of work to do. I'm guessing Jacob is using Walt or Walt's image to communicate with Locke. Locke may become the island's savior while Ben, who has not been doing a good job of holding off the Losties as they blow up hatches and subs, ends up loosing his position to Locke. Now, what that means I have no idea.

The answers are all in Walt's comic book story....

Here's a stretch...maybe Locke was the one who saw Jack's flash forward, and not Jack. That is, maybe Locke saw what Jack would become if everything happened and we saw Jack's future through Locke's eyes....

Here's a stretch...maybe Locke was the one who saw Jack's flash forward, and not Jack. That is, maybe Locke saw what Jack would become if everything happened and we saw Jack's future through Locke's eyes....


Nice! Its not a stretch at all and I thank you for reminding me of the eppy with Locke and Eko finding the medical hatch. They were having dreams as each other, essentially having visions of the other's future actions. Locke as Eko, and vice-versa.

Yes, this is a possibility, but I must say that I never thought that the characters were really thinking about thier flashbacks during the time we are seeing them. I mean they may be, but that does not necessarily we are watching thier thoughts. Sorry that I was pointing that out here, but it seems so many people think that and I really don't think so.

There is a possibility that it was really Walt who was at the pit talking to Locke, but it is hard to believe because of the whispers we heard.

As far as what Locke was talking about, we don't know and we'll have to watch next season to find out. OHH the GREAT JOY of CLIFFHANGERS!

Those are my thoughts.

CF

Yes, this is a possibility, but I must say that I never thought that the characters were really thinking about thier flashbacks during the time we are seeing them. I mean they may be, but that does not necessarily we are watching thier thoughts. Sorry that I was pointing that out here, but it seems so many people think that and I really don't think so.

CF


I agree. However, in that particular episode Locke's dreams are not the flashbacks that we are accustomed to. He had dreams as Eko and Eko had dreams as Locke. This was just the means to the end of them finding the plane, Eko's brother, and the medical hatch. Now what caused those visions, I dont know.

Just how in tune with the island is Locke?

I'm almost certain that in later ep's the cause and effect issue will come to play in a big way. Desmond's flashes of the future and his ultimate conclusion that his intervention is futile must carry some weight, maybe certain people/all the losties make it back to 'the real world' somehow, but maybe they aren't supposed to be there..

My money's on cause and effect/changing the future by their actions being a major issue in the future for sure.

Hurry up January!

I think there's someone, some group or some entity using everyone on the island for specific purposes, and maybe some people like Ben or Alpert have a better idea of what is going on in the big picture but they might not even know everything. I think the island has been giving Locke just enough crumbs of insight to keep him doing what is expected of him but he probably doesn't know the outcome of what will happen if Jack uses the phone successfully. I would think that after waking up almost dead and so low that suicide seemed like a good idea, if Walt showed up saying Locke can walk and has work to do for the island, Locke would be content to go and do that work on faith without knowing why.

For the record, I don't think that Walt was really there, it was just the Island (or Jacob) personifying itself as Walt as a last resort to stop Locke and to give him a little kick in the pants. Kind of like how the image of Ben's mother only became really real and spoke when Ben was running towards the fence and certain death. And who knows, maybe the woman who crashed her car and forced Jack down off the ledge was the Island's way of not letting Jack off the hook so he could return to His work on the island.

I agree. However, in that particular episode Locke's dreams are not the flashbacks that we are accustomed to. He had dreams as Eko and Eko had dreams as Locke. This was just the means to the end of them finding the plane, Eko's brother, and the medical hatch. Now what caused those visions, I dont know.


Sorry, yes you are right. I didn't clarifiy that I meant flashbacks in general. Many people seem to think that the characters are actually thinking about the flashbacks the same time we are watching them. That is alll I meant. As far as Lockes visions in Further Instructions I believe (that is the epi, right?) that those do still need explaining. They really make no sense as of now unless someone would care to elaborate. Lets not forget that he had those visions only about two weeks ago...give or take...in island time.....(then again I could be wrong..please don't argue with me about time) but that is what I think. Meaning that Locke could really still be figuring it out himself.

CF

It looks like Locke received the same powers as Desmond, and that the future we see of Jack is probably a different timeline. Did anyone else think that Locke would shoot Jack? I think Locke would of killed him if he wasn't needed by the island.

Does anyone remember back to the beginning of the season when Locke had his dreams in the sweat lodge. Did they have any relevence to the finale?


would HAVE. he would have killed him.

would HAVE. he would have killed him.

He would have killed him.

:rolleyes:

Sorry if this is a dumb question....but why didn't Locke just shoot the phone? He fired a warning shot pretty near to it, so why not just empty the gun into the thing?


Same reason he didn't just shoot Jack. The island needs Jack, but Jack has to come to that conclusion on his own. He can't be forced to stay, he has to want to stay. Locke is in tune with the island and knows that Jack is part of whatever path of destiny he's been following since the crash.

Sorry, yes you are right. I didn't clarifiy that I meant flashbacks in general. Many people seem to think that the characters are actually thinking about the flashbacks the same time we are watching them. That is alll I meant. As far as Lockes visions in Further Instructions I believe (that is the epi, right?) that those do still need explaining. They really make no sense as of now unless someone would care to elaborate. Lets not forget that he had those visions only about two weeks ago...give or take...in island time.....(then again I could be wrong..please don't argue with me about time) but that is what I think. Meaning that Locke could really still be figuring it out himself.

CF

No worries bro. And Ill second what you are saying: TPTB have some explaining to do with that eppy as far as how it happened. I also need to go back and watch the sweat-lodge eppy again, I think it had a bunch of good stuff in there if I remember correctly.

Yeah, and in the Answers clip show, they showed the part where Jack says he doesn't believe in destiny. And Locke says "yes you do. You just don't know it yet."
Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.
to be honest though Locke is always saying things like this. We never know what he means!
Ben and Locke, despite their confrontation are united in their belief that Jack making that call or leaving the island is not supposed to happen. Jack does realize it in the end, too late. I felt that this was the climax of the finale, and in a way it's like the climax of the show up to this point. This is what it's all about, this is the heart of Lost. What is their purpose here on the island? Why is it important? What is their destiny?

YOU'RE
it's YOU'RE
as in "you are"

agh!

Anyhow, Locke has always said things of this nature. He believes in destiny and fate, and that there are things that are "supposed" to happen. I don't think it has anything to do with him having flashes like Desmond does. He just believes in certain things, and right now he believes that nobody is supposed to leave the island. He is speaking in a projecting-his-beliefs-on-others kind of way, not in an "I've seen the future" kind of way.

I questioned after seeing TTLG if there is something to Locke's belief in destiny and what's supposed to happen, meaning maybe he does know. He did, in fact, get the ultimate walkabout on the island... he was right in a sense about the hatch. I wouldn't dismiss him altogether or assume he doesn't know the proper course. I don't think he sees the future, but I do think he has "feelings" about things that lead him toward fulfilling his destiny.

Ben and Locke, despite their confrontation are united in their belief that Jack making that call or leaving the island is not supposed to happen. Jack does realize it in the end, too late. I felt that this was the climax of the finale, and in a way it's like the climax of the show up to this point. This is what it's all about, this is the heart of Lost. What is their purpose here on the island? Why is it important? What is their destiny?

I agree. The island character is really THE most important character on the show, I think. It's what brought them together, it's the source of basically all the mysteries on this show. It also seems to intimately interact with Locke, and vice versa. The island presents everyone with their own destiny, and some of them are finally starting to realize it. Hopefully next season the island's character will be exposed a LOT more. I miss the way everyone was affected by the island's aliveness in season 1. That was really the most refreshing, compelling element.

I questioned after seeing TTLG if there is something to Locke's belief in destiny and what's supposed to happen, meaning maybe he does know. He did, in fact, get the ultimate walkabout on the island... he was right in a sense about the hatch. I wouldn't dismiss him altogether or assume he doesn't know the proper course. I don't think he sees the future, but I do think he has "feelings" about things that lead him toward fulfilling his destiny.

Since the island shows Locke things and tells him what to do, I think we can be pretty sure that Locke knows what's going on. To what degree remains to be seen.

I think with Locke he's never wanted to leave the island, and the whole "You're not supposed to do this" was just his feeling that Jack was making a mistake as Locke feeling that he and a number of Losties had found their fate on the island and this is how it supposed to be.

I don't think that Locke can see the future, what he did and said is completely in character with him knocking out Syiad in the first season and blowing up the sub this season. He doesn't want people to leave the island and will do/say whatever it takes to acomplish that.So he killed Naomi because he had a "feeling" that they're supposed to stay on the island? Even though he couldn't kill the man who stole his kidney and paralyzed him and tried to kill him? I don't buy it. Locke KNOWS something, so does Ben. They know why no one should leave the island.

So he killed Naomi because he had a "feeling" that they're supposed to stay on the island? Even though he couldn't kill the man who stole his kidney and paralyzed him and tried to kill him? I don't buy it. Locke KNOWS something, so does Ben. They know why no one should leave the island.

Than why he didn't shot Jack if it was so important?:confused:
Seriously i don't understand anything at Locke's behaviour in the finale!:rolleyes:

Locke has seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of orion... yeah anyway I agree with some of you that the island has shown Locke some important things we haven't seen on screen.

Same reason he didn't just shoot Jack. The island needs Jack, but Jack has to come to that conclusion on his own. He can't be forced to stay, he has to want to stay. Locke is in tune with the island and knows that Jack is part of whatever path of destiny he's been following since the crash.

I'm not sure. I think it may be just as simple as Locke couldn't bring himself to kill Jack. I prefer to think it was whatever humanity that still resides in Locke these days that kept him from doing what he thought was necessary. I think Jacob sent him there and wanted him to do it but he couldn't. I think Locke/Jacob will be developing a Emperor/Darth Vader relationship in the new season. I hope he can fight it though and stay on the good side of "The Force".

RE: The mistake. Maybe this is all going to turn out to be some "Final Destination" type story. They were all supposed to die on the plane and if they leave, all the Losties will start dying off, one by one.

Or maybe I just can't wrap my head around anything without relating it to a movie I've seen???

I kind of like the idea of going back in time to fix what went wrong, myself. I don't like the "course-correcting universe" fate is fate idea though. But that's what the central question between Locke and Jack kind of is - faith/fate/destiny or science/self-determination/choice.

Interesting how similar Locke's "you're not supposed to do this" and Jack's (from the end) "We weren't supposed to leave" sound. Seems like all Locke's babbling on about destiny over the years was correct, and in the flashforward Jack is finally coming around to this type of thinking.

Heh, all this time I've been looking at that avatar of yours thinking it was some random dude giving an emergency heart pounding to revive someone, but then it dawned on me...thats Office Space! lol. Nice avatar dude. Damn it feels good...