Hero Time Two....obvious he meant the saving of the kids....

Saving the woman and kid...

But what was....

Hero time One...is what??????

Saving the survivors?????

I think that it could be one of two things. Either they are counting him saving the child and then going back to save the mother as two seperate acts of heroism, or the first time he was a hero was when he "saved" the Losties...

I took it to mean he saved the losties.

it is purposely vague, but that line was also when I first started to wonder if this was a flashback or a flash forward.

I assume he meant saving the Losties.

I got the impression from Jack & Kate's conversation that they got off the island....with maybe one other -( the person in the coffin?) and told the authorities they were the only survivors. Jack is being eaten alive by guilt.
)

When I saw the thread title I thought you meant something else.

For me, Jack was the hero twice over in this episode for being the one to finally stand his ground and say "Screw your threats, Im sticking to my damn plan, we are getting off this damned island"
Even if it ends up being the wrong decision, I'm proud of him. He ended the prolonging of BS and lies and rediculous reasons why they don't get "rescued."

As for the original question, I think it's because he saved the kid AND the mother.

Ironically, he wasn't actually a "hero" either time... as far as Jack feeling guilt-ridden during the flash-forwards, Sawyer made a comment to Kate "there's always somebody to go back for" - I think Jack left Juliette behind on the island... but either way the main point of this episode, as far as Jack's character is concerned, was to show how "unhero" like he actually is, especially AFTER the island... Charlie, Hurley, and Sawyer were the true heroes of this ep... brilliant character development!

Was it just me or did someone call Jack a hero, twice now. I assume that one of those times is saving the woman in the accident, but what is the other? Helping to save the refugees from the wreck?

Also, how great was it to see Jack so thoroughly engrossed in the craziness of the island? Even though this is a horrible possible fate for the future of the show, it still made me happy to see Jack so involved in what the island was really about, because he has always been so dismissive towards it.

Saving the losties.

SOME of the Losties. :)

The doctor called him a hero twice over.......he then mentioned how Jack pulled the 8 yr old from the burning wreck and went back for the mother.
I took it to mean he saved them :shrug:

The doctor called him a hero twice over.......he then mentioned how Jack pulled the 8 yr old from the burning wreck and went back for the mother.
I took it to mean he saved them :shrug:
That's my take. The other doctor mentioned that Jack went into the burning car twice...indicating that he was twice a hero.

Jack's obviously a hero from the island. Leading the people there from the start, right to their possible rescue. If and when they were to get rescued, he would be considered a hero by the public.

"Hero twice" was a hint that this was a flash forward and not a flashback.

These days the writers have taken to resolving some hints within the same episode. Instead of just pissing everyone off like they did last season.

That's my take. The other doctor mentioned that Jack went into the burning car twice...indicating that he was twice a hero.

Jack's obviously a hero from the island. Leading the people there from the start, right to their possible rescue. If and when they were to get rescued, he would be considered a hero by the public.

"Hero twice" was a hint that this was a flash forward and not a flashback.

These days the writers have taken to resolving some hints within the same episode. Instead of just pissing everyone off like they did last season.

I think it's both: for the unspoiled, they were meant to think that going back into the burning car again would make him a hero twice over.
For myself who foolishly read the spoilers, I interpreted it as a hint that the other "twice over" was from the publicity of the rescue from the island.

I sort of get the impression that no one knows about the plane crash and what happened to them all on the island... hence Jack saying something to the effect of "you don't know what I've been through". I think maybe Jack and any other survivors were sworn to secrecy about the island "or else".

I sort of get the impression that no one knows about the plane crash and what happened to them all on the island... hence Jack saying something to the effect of "you don't know what I've been through". I think maybe Jack and any other survivors were sworn to secrecy about the island "or else".

Nah...he wouldnt bring that stuff up. If they were rescued the publicity would have said it all for him. Additionaly people who had trauma in their life dont dwell on it. You can tell if a war vet had a tough time in battle because they never talk about it.

First it would ruin the surprise to have Jack reflect on the island at the beginning of the show and secondly its quite common for people who suffered to avoid talking about it. So I think everyone knows but Jack doesnt care to share and the people choose to respect that.

another reason i believe they were only referring to the accident is i don't think anyone knows about his heroism on the island. I believe that they have had to keep all the happenings from there a secret, hence the line to Kate, "I'm sick of lying".

not to mention, the guy in the pharmacy didn't recognize him from the Oceanic storyline, only the accident, said he was all over the news. He may have made mention of the Airline crash too, if Jack was known as the hero of that to the public.

just a thought :)

One possibility is the Jack is a hero angle was part of a spin doctoring campaign used by TPTB who were the masterminds behind Naomi's trek to the Island and the retaking that followed.

Sarah called him his hero at his mariage ceremony!

I do not think that the general public knows about the island happenings and the crash and rescue - too much just doesn't add up...

At the pharmacy Jack only gets acknowledged for saving the woman and child - I would think that more people in line would recognize him (name and/or face) from the 815 crash because if something like that happened in real life their faces would be plastered all over the place. Their stories would also be known - "Jack from LA was bringing his dead father's body home...." blah blah blah, and we don't get confirmation that Christian is dead...

Kate is not in prison....

Jack tells Kate, "I'm tired of lying..." Lying about what? The crash and what happened.

Sure, a good chunk of time could very well have passed between the rescue and the flash forward, but I would think that the rescue would generate an absurd amount of news coverage (if Naomi can be believed that things happened like Drive Shaft releasing a Greatest Hits album and such....) and the names and faces would be hard to forget.

But back pedaling on my own thoughts here, if the survivors were told to keep everything a secret, I don't know why they would be allowed to go and resume their lives in the same cities and same hospital, in Jack's case. I would think it would be more of a witness protection program where they get all new identities...

I know Jack saved two people in the accident, but do you think this could be referring to an earlier event, possibly saving the survivors from the island?

I think they were referring to his ex-wife, and her miraculous recovery from almost certain paralysis.

I believe they were referring to him saving the 815er's. I got the impression they were forced to lie about what happened on the island in exchange for being rescued.Then i thought that the person who died was Ben but if they all had to lie about the island then their rescuers would probably keep Ben and the others a seceret too.

Exactly, Jack was the "hero" that got 815 rescued... obviously there's more to the story than the new channels would report. It was a little sneaky that you believe that the "twice over" referred to the mother and child in the crash.... sneaky. sneaky.

What was this phrase about?

Commentator (Carlton voice in "Action 8 News") on tv say that he saved the child, then went back for the mother, and didnt say that he was someone very important before. "Saving everyone from the island" can't be public knowledge, or else there'd have been massive media coverage and he would be much more famous to strangers as the survivor of the flight than as a guy that saved two people from a car accident. I know about Golden Pass, but I understand situation that they didnt tell everything about their adventures and/or important role of Jack in it.

I took it to mean that he was a hero for saving the boy, and then again for saving the mother as well. I agree that if it was public knowledge that Jack had been on the island and got everyone off it, then he'd be very famous. People would be wanting interviews with the guy who led everyone off the crazy island, and the news reporter would definately have mentioned it.

I tend to think it meant the island as well. Perhaps, since this seemed to be taking place in 2007, all the media coverage from the island incident would have died down. I don't think the majority of people would still be interested in the island if it was kept relatively quiet. Especially if all the weird stuff about the island was left out.

Also keep in mind that Jack with the big beard may not be all that recognizable to your average person who saw him in news reports 3 years ago. There would still of course be some people would remember Jack, like the man who said the line in question. Obviously they wouldn't have mentioned the island in the news report for one practical reason: it would have given away the twist. There also may have been more to the news report than what we saw.

Yup, it meant saving both mother and son. He saved one of them from a burning wreck of a care, then went back for the other. Both times risking his life (more so the second time of course).

I really think it is the whole survivors/crash thing...

Do you believe Naomi?

A
If you think Naomi was lying about Flight 815's wreckage being found, then no one in the "real world" would be thinking that Jack was dead...only missing. It would be much easier for whoever returned Jack to the "real world" to reintegrate him into his old life...doctor, same name, contact with ex-wife, etc. In the flash-forward, Jack isn't in some kind of "witness protection" with a new identity. He is Jack Shephard.

B
If you think Naomi was telling the truth, then the general population heard that Flight 815's wreckage was found at the bottom of the ocean. Jack would be presumed dead...not missing. It would be harder for whoever returned Jack to the "real world" to reintegrate him into his old life. They would have to come up with a plausible explanation for Jack not being on the flight (maybe he was drunk and missed it?) yet still be on the manifest at the boarding gate (someone stole his passport and ticket and posed as him?)...or maybe Jack actually crashed in the ocean, and the plane did sink to the bottom of the sea, but Jack somehow survived and washed ashore and was in a coma for a long time or had amnesia or something.

We know the wreckage wasn't actually at the bottom of the ocean, so someone must have set that "discovery" up (if you believe Naomi). They probably wouldn't want knowledge of the island to reach people in the "real world". It would be easiest to just kill Jack and everyone. They didn't, since we see jack and Kate in the flash-forward. They would have to be holding something pretty important over Jack's head, and Kate's, to keep the truth from getting out. Even if you believe Naomi is lying, whoever found Jack would probably want to keep the island a secret and wouldn't let him tell people the truth behind Flight 815.

Basically, I doubt anyone in the "real world" knows anything at all about the island and the time Jack spent there, including his "heroic" leading of the survivors of Flight 815.

As for Jack being a "hero" for successfully performing a difficult operation...I don't think Hamill, a fellow doctor, would call Jack a "hero" for just doing his job. "Miracle worker", maybe...but not "hero".

The easiest explanation for the "twice over" statment is what we heard directly in the episode. Jack saved a boy from a burning car wreck (one act) and went back to save the mother (a second act).

That might be obvious, but (from a viewer's standpoint) so is Jack being a hero for "saving" the Losties on the island. The question is whether or not you believe the people who "rescued" Jack would allow the truth to get out. I don't think they would.

Another possibility is that the writers hoped people would debate the two obvious possibilities, while actually having Hamill refer an as yet unseen "heroic" act Jack performed sometime between leaving the island and the events in the flash-forward (a heroic act that we will not see until sometime in Season 4). I wouldn't put it past them.

Plane and car crash, that's my take at least. For what it's worth!:shrug:

Mother and son from the car crash.

Even if that guy had seen Jack on TV as some aircrash survivor, there's no way he'd recognize him in that beard a couple of years later. That beard was....possibly more flashback-worthy than any tattoos. Just kidding... really!