The credits section on abc.com (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=missingpiecescredits#t=0) was updated today and they not only added the credits for "Hurley and Frogurt", but also for a third episode. Can anyone confirm that this is the missing piece which is on Verizon today?

Episode 101 - King of the Castle

Michael Emerson as Ben
Matthew Fox as Jack
Music by: Michael Giacchino Costume Designer: Roland Sanchez
Edited by: Robert Florio, A.C.E.
Production Designer: James Newport
Director of Photography: Michael Bonvillain, A.S.C.
Executive Producers: J.J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof, Bryan Burk, Jack Bender, Carlton Cuse
Co-Executive Producers: Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz, Drew Goddard, Stephen Williams, Jean Higgins
Supervising Producer: Elizabeth Sarnoff
Producers: Ra'uf Glasgow, Pat Churchill
Co-Producers: Richard Peter Schroer, Brian K. Vaughn, Samantha Thomas
Executive Story Editor: Christina M. Kim
Associate Producer: Kaleen Yamase
Created by Jeffrey Lieber and J.J. Abrams & Damon Lindelof
Written by Brian K. Vaughan
Directed by Jack Bender

(Hmm, Jeff Pinkner is missing from the list of producers again, is he no longer on Lost?)

Thanks, Starrox...I'm just posting because "thread tools" isn't coming up, for me to subscribe.

its supposed to be out tuesday on verison.

this could be the first too being 101. Jack and Ben.
Might be a little more weighty

Looks interesting, specially the part when Ben says "But if you do leave this place, the day may come when you want to return."


Why are they numbered this way? clearly the order is not chronological, right? :confused:

whispers

Ooh, is this a "missing piece" from when Jack was in Othersville? Sounds intriguing.

Is it up on youtube yet?

Not to make too much of this, but chess is:

* Another reference to black & white

* An interesting metaphor decribing Jack's situation with Ben and the Others

* A possible reference to some of the elements in "Through the Looking Glass" (the LC story)

* Interesting given the fact that chess was the vehicle used to access the Flame Station's access codes.

And an emphasis on Jack being a chess player... which imo could be another clue that it was Jack in the LTDA scene (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=84002)..

And an emphasis on Jack being a chess player... which imo could be another clue that it was Jack in the LTDA scene (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=84002)..

I just read through that thread, and I have to say, it's an interesting idea. I still think we're missing a fundamental clue about how time is being brought together on the show. For example, let's say you're correct, and the scene with the Arctic flunkies in communication with Penny at end of LTDA is in fact a flash forward set AFTER the events of TTLG. Let's also say that one of the men is in fact Jack, in disguise or whatever. He's "infiltrated" Widmore's cabal in an attempt to get back to the Island. His knowledge coupled with Penny's resources would explain how Penny is looking in the right place for the location of the Island. However, the presence of Penny at the end of TTLG would seem to indicate that she's already in the right place, which begs the question of how she came to possess the information needed to do that. I still think that we're dealing with multiple timelines in some fashion.

Oh, the irony. Poor Jack.

Well, they have already changed one actress (the original one in Desmond's picture for Penny) why not do it again. But that would be reeeeeeeaaaaaaly lame. I mean,those two guys had names and actors were credited for the role... would they go that far? Hope not.

Definately my favorite so far :p

The chessboard isn't set up correctly.

jane your attention to detail amazes me!

Great mobisode. The best one by far. Where is Ben getting his information? IMHO, he clearly knows that there will be a time that Jack wants to come back to the Island. Sometimes, I get the feeling that Ben has "done this all before" or has seen what's happening before - even if Michael Emerson has no idea what Ben knows! Foxy and ME work well together. Foxy has the L'Oreal hair in this mobisode...

Another question: What's the connection between Jack asking if the sub was going to get blown up and Locke seemingly doing it? If the Island manipulated the situation so that the sub would get blown up via Ben's manipulation of Locke, what the hell does that all mean? If Ben is doing the Island's work, why does he seem so scheming? Why can't he just tell the Losties what's going on???

They can't *handle* the truth!

They can't *handle* the truth!
But Marvin can?:rolleyes:

LOL! You might not be that far from the truth, jane...really...

I didn't get the significance of the chess board but then I'm a novice so it makes sense that I wouldn't notice.
I think that Ben's gift is some kind of precog. I think he sees into the future or maybe he can make out the shadows that just about everyone else doesn't see. Like he can see Jacob but Locke couldn't. Several things he's said seem to indicate that he knows at least part of the future. Whether it's because he's lived it before or whether he sees it in flashes like Des is the question.
I've often wondered why he didn't just approach the Losties right off the bat, bring them into Otherville and cozen them into doing whatever it is he wants them to do. To me, that would have been much more effective than the sneak attacks and strange statements about wanting them to want to stay and just the downright hostile attitude they've shown to a bunch of people who never asked to be there in the first place. Maybe some of these missing pieces will help us understand their behavior just a little better.

I didn't get the significance of the chess board but then I'm a novice so it makes sense that I wouldn't notice.
I think that Ben's gift is some kind of precog. I think he sees into the future or maybe he can make out the shadows that just about everyone else doesn't see. Like he can see Jacob but Locke couldn't. Several things he's said seem to indicate that he knows at least part of the future. Whether it's because he's lived it before or whether he sees it in flashes like Des is the question.
I've often wondered why he didn't just approach the Losties right off the bat, bring them into Otherville and cozen them into doing whatever it is he wants them to do. To me, that would have been much more effective than the sneak attacks and strange statements about wanting them to want to stay and just the downright hostile attitude they've shown to a bunch of people who never asked to be there in the first place. Maybe some of these missing pieces will help us understand their behavior just a little better.

I think Ben's just a brilliant pychopath! :biggrin: Playing games is his game.

Another question: What's the connection between Jack asking if the sub was going to get blown up and Locke seemingly doing it? If the Island manipulated the situation so that the sub would get blown up via Ben's manipulation of Locke, what the hell does that all mean? If Ben is doing the Island's work, why does he seem so scheming? Why can't he just tell the Losties what's going on???

Jack didn't really use the words "blow up", he just said "Is the Island going to sink the sub?" and you could see Ben's cogs turning: "No, but I will. Somehow..." I think he was genuine when he told Locke he was raking his brains to find a way to stop Jack and then Locke showed up.

It was nice to see continuity with Ben considering Jack worthy to be his opponent and enjoying his company. His line about "It's been a while since I've had someone with a little skill..." made me wonder who that Other opponent long gone was. Maybe he played chess with Jacob in his hut. :lol2:

wowowow the best mobisode so far without a doubt! :kicking: :kicking: :kicking:

Jack didn't really use the words "blow up", he just said "Is the Island going to sink the sub?" and you could see Ben's cogs turning: "No, but I will. Somehow..." I think he was genuine when he told Locke he was raking his brains to find a way to stop Jack and then Locke showed up.

It was nice to see continuity with Ben considering Jack worthy to be his opponent and enjoying his company. His line about "It's been a while since I've had someone with a little skill..." made me wonder who that Other opponent long gone was. Maybe he played chess with Jacob in his hut. :lol2:

While Ben's endured his fair amount of spearings, beatings, and beatdowns, he is remarkably fortunate. His mother died in childbirth, but he lived. An encounter with the sonic fence, only to be saved from certain death by the "ghost" of his dead mother. An encounter with Richard in the jungle which paved the way to help him achieve his destiny. A spinal surgeon "fell out of the sky" (Jack) just in time to save him from a sure death. Locke happening upon Othersville just in time to sink the sub and prevent Ben from double-crossing Jack and Juliet.

Jack didn't really use the words "blow up", he just said "Is the Island going to sink the sub?" and you could see Ben's cogs turning: "No, but I will. Somehow..." I think he was genuine when he told Locke he was raking his brains to find a way to stop Jack and then Locke showed up. Do you think that he was disingenuous when he said that the Island might make Jack stay there if it wanted that to happen? Do you think that he was really believing what he was saying or that he was just playing games, literally and figuratively, with Jack?

It was nice to see continuity with Ben considering Jack worthy to be his opponent and enjoying his company. His line about "It's been a while since I've had someone with a little skill..." made me wonder who that Other opponent long gone was. Maybe he played chess with Jacob in his hut. :lol2:Yes, I liked the line about Jack being a worthy opponent, too. How far does this analogy stretch, though? At the end of the Season Three finale, Ben seemed to be putting himself and Jack/the other Losties on the same team versus the Freighties...

As for Jacob being Ben's last worthy opponent and Jack being his current worthy opponent...look at Jack in the FF...he's stuck, just like Jacob...is Walt the only one that could topple Ben? Locke? Why am I confused as to who is really in power on the Island? Who works for...whom, really?
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While Ben's endured his fair amount of spearings, beatings, and beatdowns, he is remarkably fortunate. His mother died in childbirth, but he lived. An encounter with the sonic fence, only to be saved from certain death by the "ghost" of his dead mother. An encounter with Richard in the jungle which paved the way to help him achieve his destiny. A spinal surgeon "fell out of the sky" (Jack) just in time to save him from a sure death. Locke happening upon Othersville just in time to sink the sub and prevent Ben from double-crossing Jack and Juliet.But...is it luck or is Ben more powerful than we think? I wonder if TPTB have rewritten Ben to be more powerful than they originally planned - even after they knew that he'd stay on the show for more than three or four episodes?

I mean, how does Ben get his information? Is he really a "Man Behind the Curtain" type of leader...kind of a very intelligent, manipulative, observant fraud...or is there more? Jacob didn't seem to be in control of that much when Ben brought Locke to see him. What gives? Like Claudia suggested, was Jacob once Ben's other "worthy opponent", but not anymore? Is Jacob just a tool that Ben uses to give credibility to his wants and needs?

I didn't get the significance of the chess board but then I'm a novice so it makes sense that I wouldn't notice.
I think that Ben's gift is some kind of precog. I think he sees into the future or maybe he can make out the shadows that just about everyone else doesn't see. Like he can see Jacob but Locke couldn't. Several things he's said seem to indicate that he knows at least part of the future. Whether it's because he's lived it before or whether he sees it in flashes like Des is the question.
I've often wondered why he didn't just approach the Losties right off the bat, bring them into Otherville and cozen them into doing whatever it is he wants them to do. To me, that would have been much more effective than the sneak attacks and strange statements about wanting them to want to stay and just the downright hostile attitude they've shown to a bunch of people who never asked to be there in the first place. Maybe some of these missing pieces will help us understand their behavior just a little better.

Ben and the Others seem pretty particular about who they let into the fold, even going as far as throwing out the labels "good" and "bad" when describing people in general and the Losties in particular. We still don't know what those labels mean, or what criteria is used. I think if we knew that we would be able to answer some of the other questions you raise.

Ben and the Others seem pretty particular about who they let into the fold, even going as far as throwing out the labels "good" and "bad" when describing people in general and the Losties in particular. We still don't know what those labels mean, or what criteria is used. I think if we knew that we would be able to answer some of the other questions you raise.If Jack wasn't on the illustrious Jacob's List, why is he such a worthy opponent in Ben's eyes?

ETA: I don't know why I'm equating the two - they might not even be related or connected in any way. The List could be a bad thing, possibly. The List could be fake, too. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben made up Jacob's List and told the Others that they needed to get those people from the Losties' camp just so he'd have the ammuniton to get Jack to do the surgery...

Do you think that he was disingenuous when he said that the Island might make Jack stay there if it wanted that to happen? Do you think that he was really believing what he was saying or that he was just playing games, literally and figuratively, with Jack?

Yes, I liked the line about Jack being a worthy opponent, too. How far does this analogy stretch, though? At the end of the Season Three finale, Ben seemed to be putting himself and Jack/the other Losties on the same team versus the Freighties...

As for Jacob being Ben's last worthy opponent and Jack being his current worthy opponent...look at Jack in the FF...he's stuck, just like Jacob...is Walt the only one that could topple Ben? Locke? Why am I confused as to who is really in power on the Island? Who works for...whom, really?
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But...is it luck or is Ben more powerful than we think? I wonder if TPTB have rewritten Ben to be more powerful than they originally planned - even after they knew that he'd stay on the show for more than three or four episodes?

I mean, how does Ben get his information? Is he really a "Man Behind the Curtain" type of leader...kind of a very intelligent, manipulative, observant fraud...or is there more? Jacob didn't seem to be in control of that much when Ben brought Locke to see him. What gives? Like Claudia suggested, was Jacob once Ben's other "worthy opponent", but not anymore? Is Jacob just a tool that Ben uses to give credibility to his wants and needs?

Ben truly is the "Man Behind the Curtain." In other words, his power is equal parts (or unequal depending on how you look at it) legitimate and artificial. Look at his seemingly limitless knowledge of the Losties and their histories, strengths, and weaknesses. While it's possible he has some ability he taps into to read minds or something along those lines, it's also been shown that he has assets in the outside world that can accomplish information gathering. He employed Mikhail to that end, had recruiters such as Richard and Ethan, and had dossiers on each person based on the activity of those assets. As for Jacob, something freaky is clearly going on in that regard, but on the other hand, Ben uses Jacob as a fairly rudimentary tool to maintain his power base. He's a master manipulator and con man, but appears in touch with the supernatural.

Ben truly is the "Man Behind the Curtain." In other words, his power is equal parts (or unequal depending on how you look at it) legitimate and artificial. Look at his seemingly limitless knowledge of the Losties and their histories, strengths, and weaknesses. While it's possible he has some ability he taps into to read minds or something along those lines, it's also been shown that he has assets in the outside world that can accomplish information gathering. He employed Mikhail to that end, had recruiters such as Richard and Ethan, and had dossiers on each person based on the activity of those assets. As for Jacob, something freaky is clearly going on in that regard, but on the other hand, Ben uses Jacob as a fairly rudimentary tool to maintain his power base. He's a master manipulator and con man, but appears in touch with the supernatural.I wonder who, if anyone, will be his real "equal"? Walt? Locke? I'm leaning towards Walt...

I think Ben's just a brilliant pychopath! :biggrin: Playing games is his game.
Indeed - his favorite thing to do, especially of the mindfrak variety.
I like another use of games here as a continuation of a theme - the poker, the ping pong, the computer chess in the Flame, and the backgammon from Season 1.

If Jack wasn't on the illustrious Jacob's List, why is he such a worthy opponent in Ben's eyes?

ETA: I don't know why I'm equating the two - they might not even be related or connected in any way. The List could be a bad thing, possibly. The List could be fake, too. I wouldn't be surprised if Ben made up Jacob's List and told the Others that they needed to get those people from the Losties' camp just so he'd have the ammuniton to get Jack to do the surgery...

Ben truly is the "Man Behind the Curtain." In other words, his power is equal parts (or unequal depending on how you look at it) legitimate and artificial. Look at his seemingly limitless knowledge of the Losties and their histories, strengths, and weaknesses. While it's possible he has some ability he taps into to read minds or something along those lines, it's also been shown that he has assets in the outside world that can accomplish information gathering. He employed Mikhail to that end, had recruiters such as Richard and Ethan, and had dossiers on each person based on the activity of those assets. As for Jacob, something freaky is clearly going on in that regard, but on the other hand, Ben uses Jacob as a fairly rudimentary tool to maintain his power base. He's a master manipulator and con man, but appears in touch with the supernatural.

Since "The Wizard of Oz" was just on TV again, Ben really does come off as Professor Marvel - pretending to be great and powerful but really just a (mean) little man. I believe he's conning the Others regarding Jacob, and like Junie said there may be no list made by Jacob - it's just another tool of Ben's to keep his own people mystified and beholden to him as the only interceder between them and the Great and Powerful Jacob.

But back to the mobisode, you can see in Jack's expression and hear in his voice how he just loathes Ben with every fiber of his being, and is sick to death of his mind games. But he has to "keep his head down" as he said, and wait for the eventual payoff of his deal so he can leave and bring back rescue to the Losties, even though he of course tells Ben "Never." Is he going to tell Ben he'll be back? Did he tell Ben he was fixin' to cut his kidney as he counted down to unconsciousness going into surgery? No, Jack is more of a poker player than a chess player and keeps his cards close.

Very cool allusion to the flashforward and Ben advising him to remember this conversation if he ever wants to get back, though.

Argh! I was just about to post something in reply to you, workingmom, and I LOST it in cyberspace!!!

Well, what I want to know is...did Ben know that Jack will want to come back to the Island? If so, if yes, how did he find that out? If not, if no, why would he say that to Jack, about wanting to come back tot he Island?

Argh! I was just about to post something in reply to you, workingmom, and I LOST it in cyberspace!!!

Well, what I want to know is...did Ben know that Jack will want to come back to the Island? If so, if yes, how did he find that out? If not, if no, why would he say that to Jack, about wanting to come back tot he Island? hee...
I'd say from the context of this little scene, which was before the rescue party of Kate, Sayid & Locke showed up, Jack was working to keep up the notion for Ben that he wanted to get the hell off the island and go home. By now Jack has deduced that Ben is very protective of "his" island and would try to foil any attempt to get the rest of the Losties rescued, so he had to keep up the idea of being out for himself.
But Ben had been observing Jack for a long time and probably realized that Jack would want to return right away to the island with a rescue ship for the rest of them, and this was his warning of sorts to him. For as we saw in the finale, Ben will go to any lengths to keep outsiders from discovering the island.
So they're each playing mind game with each other to not reveal their true intentions - interesting use of the word "intend" in the mobisode there as well, when Ben seems to hedge by saying he intends to keep his promise and Jack calls him on it.
Jack, if he wants to take advantage of this very rare chance to get rescue, has to play along since Ben has control of the sub and Ben is in control of his surroundings. I'm sure Jack's not comfortable in that situation and you see the veiled tension in his expression.

This mobisode is by far the best. THIS is what I want to see in the mobisodes. Small missing pieces of information based on events that occurred on island. For instance, we know that Jack was stuck in Othersville for a week prior to his rescue, so what happened? This mobisode actually shows us one small scene. Excellent. I love Matthew Fox and Michael Emerson in scenes together.

Look at his seemingly limitless knowledge of the Losties and their histories, strengths, and weaknesses. While it's possible he has some ability he taps into to read minds or something along those lines, it's also been shown that he has assets in the outside world that can accomplish information gathering. He's a master manipulator and con man, but appears in touch with the supernatural.

I believe that Ben may have some supernatural abilities OR he may envy those that do have it. With regard to having limitless knowledge, Ben does one thing more than anything else, imho: He studies people. He watches them. There are cameras everywhere on his little island, and he studies the people around him, and he finds out what makes them tick, what makes them weak, and then it exploits those weaknesses. That's part of his genius.


But back to the mobisode, you can see in Jack's expression and hear in his voice how he just loathes Ben with every fiber of his being, and is sick to death of his mind games. But he has to "keep his head down" as he said, and wait for the eventual payoff of his deal so he can leave and bring back rescue to the Losties, even though he of course tells Ben "Never."

Agreed. Jack is just biding his time, and there is clearly a level of contempt that Jack has for Ben. Who can blame him? Unfortunately, Jack is at a disadvantage and must wait it out. It's clear that Jack doesn't trust Ben, especially when he says "intends to or will do." I think Jack was unsure right up to the end that Ben was going to follow through with his promise.

Is he going to tell Ben he'll be back? Did he tell Ben he was fixin' to cut his kidney as he counted down to unconsciousness going into surgery? No, Jack is more of a poker player than a chess player and keeps his cards close.

Very good analogy. Jack is not a strategist, which explains why his plans don't always go the way he intends. However, Jack can read people very well and at the same time, mask his own intentions, and that ability HAS been used to great advantage many times by Jack on Lost.

Very cool allusion to the flashforward and Ben advising him to remember this conversation if he ever wants to get back, though.

Clearly he knows something.

It is apparent to me that Jack thought his best way of helping everyone escape the island was to go along with Ben and accept his deal to get off. I think this missing piece shows how he signed the deal with the devil and the devil won.He can't get back.

reggie - I like the deal with the devil analogy...that's a great one...ben really seems to like to squash people, doesn't he...even "worth opponents"...probably especially worthy opponents...

When Jack thinks back to this conversation, he'll know that Ben won the chess game on the board that they were playing in this mobisode and that he won the figurative chess game...however...I think that Ben's victory on the figurative chess game is not going to last...

where can we see this mobisode?

where can we see this mobisode?
***Mod edited***

Very good analogy. Jack is not a strategist, which explains why his plans don't always go the way he intends. However, Jack can read people very well and at the same time, mask his own intentions, and that ability HAS been used to great advantage many times by Jack on Lost.
Clearly he knows something.

That's Jack, dead on.
I agree Jack's a far better poke than chess player, for that very reason.
Jackfaces :biggrin: aside, he's got the best poker face on the island, when the chips are down or when he's planning his move.

***Mod edited***

You might want to read this announcement (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/announcement.php?f=376&a=47) ASAP...

So Ben is a con man. We know this. He makes you do something thinking it's your idea. Maybe he wanted Jack to make the radio call....
What I think would be interesting would be that the freighter, Naomi and everyone coming to the island was a rouse. Maybe they were already there. We know how the others like to put on a show.

I don't think Ben isdoing any precog thing there, but of course he knows the island and the possible hold it can have on people. The Others and whatever other others there may be seem very protective of it and other others seem interested in finding it. It is no about knowing the future, just human nature.

I was wondering about something like this, ryan, however, I don't know if the Freighties are working with the Others...but I am wondering if they've been close to the Island for awhile...somehow...and not because they're in a big freighter...

I was wondering about something like this, ryan, however, I don't know if the Freighties are working with the Others...but I am wondering if they've been close to the Island for awhile...somehow...and not because they're in a big freighter...

I have serious doubts if there is a freighter either. Until they are able to see it from the island I'm going to assume it doesn't exist. I'm in the camp that believes that they are not on the island at all and you don't travel to it on a boat or a submarine.

So Ben is a con man. We know this. He makes you do something thinking it's your idea. Maybe he wanted Jack to make the radio call....
What I think would be interesting would be that the freighter, Naomi and everyone coming to the island was a rouse. Maybe they were already there. We know how the others like to put on a show.

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that Ben was using reverse psychology on Jack? Emphasizing over and over again how bad it would be if Jack made contact with the "enemy", knowing full well that Jack's hatred and distrust of him would cause Jack to do the opposite of what he wants, when in fact that is what he wants? If so, what's Ben's end game? Why would he, the "steward" and protector of the Island want the Island's location to be revealed to the "enemy"? Or are the Freighties Ben's enemy? It would be interesting if he was in fact in cahoots with someone on the outside. Ben betrayed his own people (the DI) only to in the end con and betray the people (the Hostiles) who took him in. That would mean Ben's allegiances are with either a 3rd party, or with a dvision within TPTB behind the DI that was disenchanted with the on Island performance of the initiative.
100%
I have serious doubts if there is a freighter either. Until they are able to see it from the island I'm going to assume it doesn't exist. I'm in the camp that believes that they are not on the island at all and you don't travel to it on a boat or a submarine.

That could lend itself to the idea that what we're seeing on the Island is basically a big stage production with several instances of mis-direction. Actors, props, etc are being used to facilitate a specific set of emotional responses and actions from a chosen group of people, apparently with the focus on Jack as the main test subject.

Just to clarify, are you suggesting that Ben was using reverse psychology on Jack? Emphasizing over and over again how bad it would be if Jack made contact with the "enemy", knowing full well that Jack's hatred and distrust of him would cause Jack to do the opposite of what he wants, when in fact that is what he wants? If so, what's Ben's end game? Why would he, the "steward" and protector of the Island want the Island's location to be revealed to the "enemy"? Or are the Freighties Ben's enemy? It would be interesting if he was in fact in cahoots with someone on the outside. Ben betrayed his own people (the DI) only to in the end con and betray the people (the Hostiles) who took him in. That would mean Ben's allegiances are with either a 3rd party, or with a dvision within TPTB behind the DI that was disenchanted with the on Island performance of the initiative.
100%
That could lend itself to the idea that what we're seeing on the Island is basically a big stage production with several instances of mis-direction. Actors, props, etc are being used to facilitate a specific set of emotional responses and actions from a chosen group of people, apparently with the focus on Jack as the main test subject.

Sounds good to me. I just thought with all the lies and the cons Ben has organized in the past who is to say he's not really getting what he wants by Jack calling the 'boat.'

I think this is what is going to be the true end to the show. Some of the people are test subjects ie Jack, Locke, Juliet, Desmond. Others are in on the whole deal ie Ben, Richard, Libby, Rousseau and other crash survivors. Then you have your stages: the stations, the cages, etc. Then you have the events that intitiate a response from the subjects ie the crash, the hatch (button and implosion), the encounter with jacob and the other visions.

I would be really surprised if any of the other Losties are in on it...I really would. I would believe much easier that the Losties are all test subjects of some kind.

There has to come a time when we have to take something at face value, don't we, although LOST is ripe full of secrets. And, it's more fun to be suspicious, but what if Ben is telling the truth? If he is telling the truth, I think that there's more to why he doesn't want the Losties and the Freighties to communicate. Obviously, Ben knows more about the Freighties than the Losties do, but what does he know about them and how? Ben has either seen the future somehow or he has dealt with the Freighties before...if he tells Jack and everyone else what he knows about the Freighties, he'll be tipping his hand about himself, so he can't do that...

As for the Island, what it really is, I do think that the Losties are "there". I don't think that they're hooked up to VR machines or anything like that...

I would be really surprised if any of the other Losties are in on it...I really would. I would believe much easier that the Losties are all test subjects of some kind.

There has to come a time when we have to take something at face value, don't we, although LOST is ripe full of secrets. And, it's more fun to be suspicious, but what if Ben is telling the truth? If he is telling the truth, I think that there's more to why he doesn't want the Losties and the Freighties to communicate. Obviously, Ben knows more about the Freighties than the Losties do, but what does he know about them and how? Ben has either seen the future somehow or he has dealt with the Freighties before...if he tells Jack and everyone else what he knows about the Freighties, he'll be tipping his hand about himself, so he can't do that...

As for the Island, what it really is, I do think that the Losties are "there". I don't think that they're hooked up to VR machines or anything like that...

It's hard to say what is "real" and what isn't. As outlandish as it sounds, the possibility exists for the Lost universe to be a VR exercise. "Jack" is in fact an avatar being controlled by someone else. Perhaps the choices being made in the "game" will impact the real world life of the "player." The identity of the "player" is the ultimate mystery that needs to be revealed.

It's hard to say what is "real" and what isn't. As outlandish as it sounds, the possibility exists for the Lost universe to be a VR exercise. "Jack" is in fact an avatar being controlled by someone else. Perhaps the choices being made in the "game" will impact the real world life of the "player." The identity of the "player" is the ultimate mystery that needs to be revealed.Yes, I'd consider it a possibility, but IMHO, it's low on the list of possibilities...maybe, I shouldn't be so disqualifying about this possibility as my husband loves video games...but...I don't know...I still don't really think that that's what's going to happen...that's based on...nothing but my opinion, though...

Yes, I'd consider it a possibility, but IMHO, it's low on the list of possibilities...maybe, I shouldn't be so disqualifying about this possibility as my husband loves video games...but...I don't know...I still don't really think that that's what's going to happen...that's based on...nothing but my opinion, though...

I think the writers themselves referred to some of these more extreme outcomes and said it would be a cheat and a cop out and it would be disrespectful to our involvement with the story and the characters. Or something like that... I'm not too sure of the details, but I think they mentioned the game along with the idea that it's all happening in Jack's head and he wakes up from a dream, etc.

Junie, I'm sorry I'm in a rush (these people who pay me expect me to do my job pffft!) but to answer your question: I don't think Ben lied to Jack. He really does believe the Island will stop him somehow, but what he means is "the box will give me a way" cause he sure has the will to do it. So I think he was truthful to both Jack and Locke (when he tells him he was desperately trying to figure out how to keep Jack on the Island.)

I think the writers themselves referred to some of these more extreme outcomes and said it would be a cheat and a cop out and it would be disrespectful to our involvement with the story and the characters. Or something like that... I'm not too sure of the details, but I think they mentioned the game along with the idea that it's all happening in Jack's head and he wakes up from a dream, etc.Yeah, Claudia, I just don't think that that it's going to go in that direction...why have these awesome characters just be...not real? I don't think that it's happening in Jack's head or anyone else's head, for that matter, either...

Yes, I'd consider it a possibility, but IMHO, it's low on the list of possibilities...maybe, I shouldn't be so disqualifying about this possibility as my husband loves video games...but...I don't know...I still don't really think that that's what's going to happen...that's based on...nothing but my opinion, though...

I don't think such a scenario will happen either, but then again if TPTB want to "ground" the show's conclusion in some sort of believable "reality" who knows what will happen?
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I think the writers themselves referred to some of these more extreme outcomes and said it would be a cheat and a cop out and it would be disrespectful to our involvement with the story and the characters. Or something like that... I'm not too sure of the details, but I think they mentioned the game along with the idea that it's all happening in Jack's head and he wakes up from a dream, etc.

I wouldn't put anything past TPTB when it comes to the show and how it plays out as it nears it's conclusion. As for the VR/game angle being a cop-out, done *correctly* it could be pretty cool, but IMO that reveal would have to occur sooner than later to flesh out the mythology on the "other side."

I don't think it's going to get to the point where it's VR. But the island isn't what we think it is. And I think its more of an artificial environment. Everything is real, the trees the animals, everything like that are real but man made as part of a larger project.
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They are testing these specific people for whatever reason. They were manipulated onto the plane or the boat(Desmond) or the sub(Juliet) for a reason.

the chessboard could be another nod to alice through the looking glass ( where the land she enters is a giant chessboard)
christian with his white handkerchief and watch was a nod to the white rabbit..

the chessboard could be another nod to alice through the looking glass ( where the land she enters is a giant chessboard)
christian with his white handkerchief and watch was a nod to the white rabbit..

Exactly. Everyone's a pawn.

If this is all some kind of con by Ben and there is no freighter, I am going to feel very cheated. I'd like to think of him as the Other who cried wolf instead.

This mobisode was awesome. It gave me goosebumps! This should have been the first one and the real first two should have never been shown.

IMO

:-)

But then it would be like a puzzle with missing pieces, austin. When you put a puzzle together, not all the pieces are exciting in themselves. Only when you assemble the pieces and see the whole do you understand why the pieces are the way they are.

What if someone took some of the puzzle pieces and hid them or destroyed them? What happens then?

I never liked puzzles. I don't have a lot of patience and it frustrates me not having the "big picture" around when I'm doing a puzzle. With LOST, it's a love/hate relationship about not knowing everything. When I do know as much as we know at the end of the show, though, it's gonna be very bittersweet...

Sigh...it's not even January, yet...

I feel your pain & frustration, Junibun! I thought it was very significant last season during the clip show "The Answers" that Carlton said that all the views of the past, present and future would come together to form a cohesive mosaic - like pieces of a puzzle. That helped me tremendously in understanding what they are trying to do on this show.
Now, we have these "Missing Pieces" mobisodes and I can't help but feel that this is part of the mosaic in some way even down to the numbers of the episode but, we'll see. I could have just latched on to that statement a little too hard. With Lost, you always have to look beyond what you're actually seeing and hearing.

Man, am I coming late to this thread! Anywho, I really liked this mobisode too, my favorite so far, but I do wonder why another with Jack so soon? (not that I'm particularly complaining, Jack being my favorite and all). Everyone is signed on to do these, so I'm curious as to what the pieces for the other Losties will be.

I do think there might be an overall big picture with these mobisodes. I found Ben's comment to Jack about remembering that conversation particularly interesting. Will future Jack attempt to find Ben in his quest to find the island again? Off course this would imply that Ben has left the island somehow, be it because the Freighties forced him off or because he left on an assignment.

What if Jack spots Ben in the middle of a crowded street in a FF? That'd be the perfect time to remember their little chess conversation, right?

What if Jack spots Ben in the middle of a crowded street in a FF? That'd be the perfect time to remember their little chess conversation, right?
How would viewers who didn't see the Verizon mobisodes know what the heck they're talking about? Will the writers just throw that scene willy-nilly into one of the episodes as a jackback or benback? Ugh. Or will they throw in some clunky exposition about it? Double ugh.

How would viewers who didn't see the Verizon mobisodes know what the heck they're talking about? Will the writers just throw that scene willy-nilly into one of the episodes as a jackback or benback? Ugh. Or will they throw in some clunky exposition about it? Double ugh.

I don't think there'll be a need to show this scene. If Jack spots Ben and speaks to him about returning to the island, anyone watching would find the actions natural and within character (after all, the last scene of S3 left us with Jack wanting to go back, but those of us who watched the mobisodes would know that Jack is most probably remembering the chess game conversation.

Why isn't this on ABC's website yet?

Why isn't this on ABC's website yet?


Because they have to give exclusivity to Verizon for a period of time, so that Verizon can sell that exclusivity to their customers. That's why Verizon paid the big bucks to sponsor the mobisodes.


I just realized it's Monday, so, they should have it up by now, unless it's every Tuesday.

I'm a sad panda that I don't get me LOST: Missing Pieces fix now. It's not up on ABC.com.

I spent all week looking forward to this. I can't believe it's not on ABC's site.

I can't either and I posted just a few minutes ago that I couldn't believe it wasn't up on the site and now that post is just gone. :67hissy: I don't know what happened. :shrug:

I am going insane here. Why is it still not up on ABC.com? I am ticked!! I guess I'll try back later today or tomorrow. This stinks!!

Is anyone able to watch the previous mobisodes on abc.com? I open the missing pieces page and it keeps saying "your video is loading" but no video comes up. Maybe they are having some problems with the player or something and that's why they haven't published the third mobisode yet.

Same thing here so I think they're having trouble with the site.

Is anyone able to watch the previous mobisodes on abc.com? I open the missing pieces page and it keeps saying "your video is loading" but no video comes up. Maybe they are having some problems with the player or something and that's why they haven't published the third mobisode yet.
Make sure you've looked at the video help page. (http://abc.go.com/site/videohelp.html)
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Well, it's about time! Watch it on ABC (http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=index).

Finally! It was discouraging to have two mobisodes that I hadn't seen being discussed . Of course, one can never trust anything Ben says, but he at least maintains the official position that the island is an entity that can make things happen. I'm not sure we've seen him assert that so baldly before.

Cardie

Is anyone able to watch the previous mobisodes on abc.com? I open the missing pieces page and it keeps saying "your video is loading" but no video comes up. Maybe they are having some problems with the player or something and that's why they haven't published the third mobisode yet.

I had that problem last week, too! I knew it wasn't a problem on my side since I hadn't had that problem with the first mobisode, so I ended up having to copy the link from the source code and download the file to my harddrive.
Maybe you can try the same with mobisode #3 (http://ll.media.abc.com/video/flv/426x240/LOST_101_KingofTheCastle_MissingPieces_HD_1481409. flv) if you can't get it to work directly?

Does anyone know how I can convert the mobisodes off ABC onto my video iPod for my own viewing?

this was such a great little episode and so much easier for me to understand. the symbolism was so obvious.
Jack and Ben are playing a game. Jack plays with his hand covering his eyes. Secretive, closed, reluctant - so Jack. He only plays because he has to.
Ben plays sitting bolt upright, hands in his lap, smug little smile on his face. Loving it.
Jack plays the light pieces while Ben plays the dark. Locke always plays the light pieces too.
Jack seems to be winning at first, but Ben foresees Jack's moves, quickly changes strategy, and gains the upper hand. Foreshadowing of season four?
As to Ben seeming a little precognitive here, I don't think that's really the case. He's just a really good manipulator. I'm reminded of something that Artie once said about Tony on The Sopranos. He sees as the hawk does, rather than the mouse. It's what makes him a great strategist and good manipulator. A leader. It's not necessarily supernatural or an indication that Ben has lived this before.
And as to knowing that Jack will one day want to come back to the island, that doesn't surprise me. Ben knows the island will eventually work it's spell over Jack because he knows it's power. Locke knew this too. In Exodus, Locke told Jack that destiny brought them each to the island. Jack says he doesn't believe in destiny, and Locke answers: "Yes you do, you just don't know it yet."

That's a great analysis on the symbolism, sandie, and very much on track. I'm trying to figure out the time reference if there is one. Anyone got any ideas??

this was such a great little episode and so much easier for me to understand. the symbolism was so obvious.
Jack and Ben are playing a game. Jack plays with his hand covering his eyes. Secretive, closed, reluctant - so Jack. He only plays because he has to.
Ben plays sitting bolt upright, hands in his lap, smug little smile on his face. Loving it.
Jack plays the light pieces while Ben plays the dark. Locke always plays the light pieces too.
Jack seems to be winning at first, but Ben foresees Jack's moves, quickly changes strategy, and gains the upper hand. Foreshadowing of season four?
As to Ben seeming a little precognitive here, I don't think that's really the case. He's just a really good manipulator. I'm reminded of something that Artie once said about Tony on The Sopranos. He sees as the hawk does, rather than the mouse. It's what makes him a great strategist and good manipulator. A leader. It's not necessarily supernatural or an indication that Ben has lived this before.
And as to knowing that Jack will one day want to come back to the island, that doesn't surprise me. Ben knows the island will eventually work it's spell over Jack because he knows it's power. Locke knew this too. In Exodus, Locke told Jack that destiny brought them each to the island. Jack says he doesn't believe in destiny, and Locke answers: "Yes you do, you just don't know it yet."

Great post! Very interesting.

Aah, the time references. Way to start my mind reeling in a different direction.
I'm only starting to see the meaning of the time references in the first two mobisodes.

In "Watch", Jack is literally given a symbol of time past, lost time (between fathers and sons). The watch is ironically hoped to symbolize a bright future for him, but we know that didn't quite work out.

In "Frogurt", Hurley believes that his time (to be loved) has finally come and, sadly, we know it has already over.

In "King", the conversation between Jack and Ben (like the show) moves through time, from past, to present, to future. Jack's perspective on these stages in time is similliar to ours. The past is settled, but the present remains a mystery in many respects.

Then the future . . . Ben talks about the future with words that suggest uncertainty ("may" and "if"), while Jack talks about the future with confidence (he'll "never" want to come back). Again, the episode is saturated with irony, because we already know it's Jack who has it all wrong.

Although Ben seems to see past, present and future pretty accurately, he also seems to know that nothing is set in stone yet. There is still the potential for multiple outcomes.

I'm interpreting this mobisode as a message to us as viewers. Let's not be Jack and assume we know what's to come.

No, let's be Jack and assume we know what's coming.

He's trying to convince Ben that he doesn't want to come back. But we know this is false, he always planned on coming back to save everyone. He doesn't want Ben to know this. Jack is conning Ben, he knows what's coming because he's done this before.

That's a good point that I'd forgotten, jane!

sandie and jane - you both present some very interesting thoughts...two equally interesting sides to one coin...thanks for the interesting insight...keep your thoughts coming...

hmm now im starting to believe that perhaps the person in the coffin in the S3 finale might have been Ben instead of Michael

Oh to hell with it...I feel such a dork posting this - but Ben's eyes are the wrong colour in this mobisode!!! He has fantastically striking light blue eyes, almost maniacal (sp?), but his eyes on this mobisode do appear to be brown. Maybe if these are ever released in HD I will see different. Sorry if this is irrelevant..and if it is relevant, then why?

...maniacal (sp?), ...

Manic

Oh to hell with it...I feel such a dork posting this - but Ben's eyes are the wrong colour in this mobisode!!! He has fantastically striking light blue eyes, almost maniacal (sp?), but his eyes on this mobisode do appear to be brown. Maybe if these are ever released in HD I will see different. Sorry if this is irrelevant..and if it is relevant, then why?Thongy - Definitely NOT irrelevant! Several people, including myself, are very into the idea that the eye of certain Losties and certain Others have looked different colors in different episodes. Some people who don't think that it's anything blame it on the lighting, the camera angles, etc., but I think differently. I think that the change in eye color is signifying...something...

One of the characters whose eyes look different frequently is Juliet. EM has blue eyes, but in certain scenes, TPTB have her with strikingly blue, basically, electric blue, eyes - like when she was in the jungle with Saywer and Sayid in one episode. She stared at them, not saying anything (it was sometime after she had left the Others' camp, but I can't remember which episode that it was in...), and it was like she was reading their minds or...something...

I wonder if the change in eye color signifies someone who's recently exercised "precognition".

Finally! It was discouraging to have two mobisodes that I hadn't seen being discussed . Of course, one can never trust anything Ben says, but he at least maintains the official position that the island is an entity that can make things happen. I'm not sure we've seen him assert that so baldly before.

Cardie

Well, except for the time he tells Locke, "imagine there is a box and when you open it, whatever you want is there....(not exact quote..I had a brain fart here) anyway...I think Ben kinda inferred that the island could give as well as take..eh? That would be an "entity" yes? ... but I guess...as you said...not so boldly...hmmm...

nevermind...lol
Myzzie
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hmm now im starting to believe that perhaps the person in the coffin in the S3 finale might have been Ben instead of Michael

It was my first thought that it could possibly be Ben...but that was because of the funeral director saying to Jack, "Family or Friend"? and Jack says "Neither" ...I would think he thought of Michael as a friend even though he got him captured..i mean..he did do it for his son yanno...It could happen!

But now that I think of it..hmmm, Michael...interesting...maybe something "special" Walt did???????????

Myzzie

Well, except for the time he tells Locke, "imagine there is a box and when you open it, whatever you want is there....(not exact quote..I had a brain fart here) anyway...I think Ben kinda inferred that the island could give as well as take..eh? That would be an "entity" yes? ... but I guess...as you said...not so boldly...hmmm...

Myzzie

Not "boldly," "baldly," that is without couching it in a metaphor or a "what if" statement or any of the other ways that Ben implies things but doesn't say them outright.

Cardie

Man, am I coming late to this thread! Anywho, I really liked this mobisode too, my favorite so far, but I do wonder why another with Jack so soon? (not that I'm particularly complaining, Jack being my favorite and all). Everyone is signed on to do these, so I'm curious as to what the pieces for the other Losties will be.

I do think there might be an overall big picture with these mobisodes. I found Ben's comment to Jack about remembering that conversation particularly interesting. Will future Jack attempt to find Ben in his quest to find the island again? Off course this would imply that Ben has left the island somehow, be it because the Freighties forced him off or because he left on an assignment.

What if Jack spots Ben in the middle of a crowded street in a FF? That'd be the perfect time to remember their little chess conversation, right?

It'd be the perfect time to remind Ben he promised to take Jack home.

But I do wonder if the clue to Jack's return is in their conversation or something Ben does.

Ditto your enjoyment - and arriving late... there's so much here I feel I ought to acknowledge, such through analysis of the subtleties of language, impressive leaps of imagination in second guessing the story arc...

But I could use the time I might spend praising the chess players here, teaching my daughter how to play. :smile: Congratulations on a fine thread to you all - it was an entertaining and imformative read.

Our chess set sets up easy - it's only 5 squares square.

No, let's be Jack and assume we know what's coming.

He's trying to convince Ben that he doesn't want to come back. But we know this is false, he always planned on coming back to save everyone. He doesn't want Ben to know this. Jack is conning Ben, he knows what's coming because he's done this before.

Is there one particular thread you could direct me to where I might find all the indicators that have lead some people to believe that some, or all, or of the characters have "done this before"? I know I've read many threads like this before, scattered about as they are in General Theories, but which one is best?

Is there one particular thread you could direct me to where I might find all the indicators that have lead some people to believe that some, or all, or of the characters have "done this before"? I know I've read many threads like this before, scattered about as they are in General Theories, but which one is best?

Read them all and let it sink in like osmosis. It takes a Leap of Faith - that all of this has happened before, and all of it will happen again.

I see rewrites wherever there are reversed images or "continuity errors" which demonstrate some kind of "reversed polarity". Try to hear secondary or tertiary meanings in the dialogue. It's been written ambiguously on purpose. It's one of Carlton's specialties.

But I do wonder if the clue to Jack's return is in their conversation or something Ben does.
.

Agreed. It seems like Ben is giving Jack some information he'll need later.

On another thread in Missing Pieces it is discused that
Ben makes an illegal move in chess
so to tie together,The illegal move and
The idea that Ben is telling Jack something important
to help him get back to The Island
and the move could be the key
Just a LOST thought

Puts us back in Season 2 finale territory trying to identify the Rook spoken of by the Jackalike in the ice station.

Ben is bishoplike - close to the throne and speaking for 'Him' to the people, and the seated can't-move-very-far Jacob might be a god king.

The king moves as far as he ever does when casteling... might mean escape is possible for him but only if someone else takes his place. Can't get this to work exactly amid all the cheating and wrongly arranged boards but... what the hey? :D

An illegal move may by the answer.

But it was John of course who Jacob asked for help, and as I'm firmly convinced the chess 'computer' was no such thing (and I've been concerned that John may have reveiled too much of his battle stragety since his game in the Swan :rolleyes: *slaps John about the head* Idiot!) I wonder how Ben rates him as a player?

The scene I want to see is Jack sat at a chess computer when we know John to be in the Flame - we always knew Jack and John would end up at war, but it seems their head to head confrontation in Season 3's finale was only a prelude to whatever end game the writers have planned.

I'm not surprised John didn't shoot Jack.

You can't kill a king.

In addition to the clue that it's Jack who is beaten by Locke in the 'computer chess game,' (leading Locke to find the C4), I think this mobisode couldn't drop a much better hint that it's Ben in the coffin that Jack visits in TTLG. The line about one day wanting to return, and Jack blowing Ben off is classic LOST irony. The part that got me was,

"And if that day comes, I hope that you remember this conversation."

In my mind, it would be much more likely to be Ben playing the computer chess game against Lock, since Ben probably has more access to a computer and especially since Patchy said the computer cheats :)

First of all, there was no illegal move. However, as someone else pointed out, for all Ben's talk about having an opponent with a little bit of skill, Ben doesn't even know how to set up the board correctly. The queen is supposed to start on her own color, not the king.

Second of all, Ben's first move, bxc4, is a blunder giving up his bishop -- one of the worst moves on the board. Before the move, Ben had the far stronger position, after it, a far weaker one. Jack's move, taking the bishop, was the only reasonable one. Ben's second move, castling long, which he seemed smug about, was the third best move (according to Shredder 3 at a depth of 13 moves), with the most obvious move, Rb8, being better.

Since the dialog suggests that Ben is whooping Jack's butt, it begs the question of what the significance of the actual chess game is, and if anyone is pay much attention to what the details of the game should actually be.

I'd suggest that the next time they have characters playing chess, they grab a position from a classic game one of the multiple free chess databases on the Internet... like one of the Fischer vs Spassky... or even Napolean vs The Turk... it would be a cool easter egg. Maybe they even have chess games recorded from someone like the original John Locke!