New mobisode is now available on Verizon. It's not listed on ABC yet, so there are no credits to get the episode number from. Here's the transcript. :biggrin:

[Jin is at the shore with a fishing pole. Sun is watching him from the woods. She goes into the jungle. She looks at her California driver’s license and starts to dig a hole to bury it. Michael comes running by.]
Michael: Vincent! Vincent! Oh, hey I’m sorry. I was looking for Vincent. I didn’t mean to scare you. You ok?
Sun: Yes, I’m, I’m fine. I just, I just needed a moment by myself.
Michael: Hey, you sure you’re ok? [Sun looks down. Michael looks down too. He sees her license on the ground and picks it up]
Sun: [crying] I was, this is…
Michael: No, no, no, you don’t have to explain. [He hands the license to her.]
Sun: I was going to leave him. I was going to leave Jin, and start a new life in America. But I changed my mind at the airport because I was afraid.
Michael: Hey, hey, it’s, it’s, it’s ok. [He holds her hands.] We’re getting off this island any day now. Things will change.
Sun: No. It’s too late. This place. It’s my punishment. It’s my destiny.
Michael: No... Maybe you should talk to him.
Sun: He’s not the man I fell in love with.
[Michael hugs her.]
Michael: Maybe he just needs a little time. It’s been hard on all of us. It’s ok. It’ll be ok.
[They pull apart and stare at each other. Michael’s hand is on Sun’s face. They lean in to kiss, but before they do, Vincent comes up and barks and they back away.]
Sun: I must go. I’m sorry. [Sun runs away.]
Michael: Uh… [Watches her leave.] Come here, Vincent. Come on.

A confirmation of what wee had suspected.

I kind of didn't like this. I preferred to think that Jin was merely jealous and that nothing was really going on. Oh well. I mean, it certainly makes things more interesting since we know that Sun's baby was conceived on island, but not by who.

I liked it. It reminded me of old times, before Michael turned into a one-man "WAAAALT" machine, and his character was more complex. Yes, I know there was serious drama surrounding the murders he committed, but they weren't as interesting to me (in terms of Michael's character) as his interactions with Sun, Jin and Jack were in S1.

But are we supposed to cast the paternity in doubt again? I don't think so. Otherwise, Sun's actions in DOC wouldn't make that much sense.

Michael was just trying to be a nice guy and comfort her, it's funny when that little switch happens but I don't think it went past that. It gave more weight to why Michael was more protective of Sun, I don't think Michael could have become friends with Jin if more had happened.

I didn't care for this one because IMHO, Michael was taking advantage of Sun when she was in a very vulnerable moment. If he hadn't given in to go for a kiss, then I could almost buy that he was being supportive of her. Except that he went on to murder 2 Lostie women in cold blood, so it would be quite a stretch to think that he was actually being supportive of Sun (without ulterior motives).

The other thing that bugs me about this one (and several of the others) is that I feel somewhat manipulated by TPTB. For these things to have been withheld (yet long suspected and speculated about by the fans) seems like dishonest storytelling...although I can see that it is apparently part of the plan. They've obviously left so much open to interpretation and have left huge gaps everywhere in the story. So they can and probably will continue to show us missing scenes that explain a lot.

I think I will get over it though ;) ; it's just disappointing. YMMV...

Maybe I am in the minority, but I really am quite a bit less than excited that Michael is coming back into the story... ;)

I didn't care for this one because IMHO, Michael was taking advantage of Sun when she was in a very vulnerable moment. If he hadn't given in to go for a kiss, then I could almost buy that he was being supportive of her. Except that he went on to murder 2 Lostie women in cold blood, so it would be quite a stretch to think that he was actually being supportive of Sun (without ulterior motives).

The other thing that bugs me about this one (and several of the others) is that I feel somewhat manipulated by TPTB. For these things to have been withheld (yet long suspected and speculated about by the fans) seems like dishonest storytelling...although I can see that it is apparently part of the plan. They've obviously left so much open to interpretation and have left huge gaps everywhere in the story. So they can and probably will continue to show us missing scenes that explain a lot.

I think I will get over it though ;) ; it's just disappointing. YMMV...

Maybe I am in the minority, but I really am quite a bit less than excited that Michael is coming back into the story... ;)TR, I think Sun was just as guilty as Michael. He was acting very concerned and was trying to get her to talk to Jin.

As for Michael killing AL and Libby, we still don't know all that Michael went through while he was with the others. Now that we've seen room 23 and how the Others have manipulated with people's minds. Michael also shot himself, not something easily done or thought of, unless he had been programmed to do it.

I didn't care for this one because IMHO, Michael was taking advantage of Sun when she was in a very vulnerable moment. If he hadn't given in to go for a kiss, then I could almost buy that he was being supportive of her. Except that he went on to murder 2 Lostie women in cold blood, so it would be quite a stretch to think that he was actually being supportive of Sun (without ulterior motives).

The other thing that bugs me about this one (and several of the others) is that I feel somewhat manipulated by TPTB. For these things to have been withheld (yet long suspected and speculated about by the fans) seems like dishonest storytelling...although I can see that it is apparently part of the plan. They've obviously left so much open to interpretation and have left huge gaps everywhere in the story. So they can and probably will continue to show us missing scenes that explain a lot.

I think I will get over it though ;) ; it's just disappointing. YMMV...

Maybe I am in the minority, but I really am quite a bit less than excited that Michael is coming back into the story... ;)

You can include the entire Thor Troop (MamaThor, TeenyThor and myself - PapaThor) into this minority. We all think this scene was in bad taste and way beyond the "Lost" realm of believability.

We totally agree with TabbyRasa on her comments about "dishonest storytelling." If these "missing pieces" had never been made, so many doubts would not be rising up. There is a lot of "what else is missing" being thrown around the kitchen table.

Good thing it's the holidays or else this discussion could have gotten ugly. Okay uglier. Also good thing the nog wasn't spiked like last year. Or maybe it should be. Hmmm!

Vincent!!!! I tell you, that dog is up to something. He always shows up at very particular moments.

TabbyRasa - I'm right there with you!! I'm not that excited about Michael coming back either! He should have just kept on sailing!

Doc

I'm really excited for Mike to be coming back. I don't like the fact that he killed Ana Lucia and Libby but I think it's only going to make his story more interesting. I also don't think him and Sun went beyond what we saw in this missing piece. It would have been a good twist for later eps but I don't think it would make sense with what we've already seen.

A confirmation of what wee had suspected.

Yeah, and it's total crap. If they had originally meant for something to go on between Mike and Sun, they would have shown it in the first season. They didn't sit there and think, "let's hint at these two having romantic feelings and then show confirmation of it with a mobisode before season 4."

I really hate this revisionist stuff they started last season.

I kind of didn't like this. I preferred to think that Jin was merely jealous and that nothing was really going on.

I've been watching the first season over again, and that's exactly what it was. The audience suspected something, but there isn't really anything in the actual episodes that shows something going on between them.

My first reaction when I read this was, "I don't know about that" and I'm still on the fence. I think now that we know that Sun's had a previous affair and that Jin had suspicions, that makes his jealousy much more understandable because we have a context. However, I agree with Sam G - I don't think that Michael could have been friends with Jin if he and Sun had taken it any further.
I also think this is another example that Vincent is as "special" as Walt is. He also knows the right time to leave or enter or intervene.

Yeah, and it's total crap. If they had originally meant for something to go on between Mike and Sun, they would have shown it in the first season. They didn't sit there and think, "let's hint at these two having romantic feelings and then show confirmation of it with a mobisode before season 4."

Yeah, I agree with you guys. They played on the slight ambiguity from their Season 1 interactions and threw in this near-miss of something more happening. I don't believe anything else happened after that though. It's disappointing to see Sun's resolve to be true to Jin again crumble so easily though, after all they've been through.

Can anyone place in the timeline when this mobisode would have happened during Season 1? Seems like it could be almost anytime in the middle.

Sun did say to Jin - in English - "I was going to leave you" in In Translation. But we are to assume that Jin didn't understand - or that Sun decided to come clean by then, so maybe this mobisode would have taken place before In Translation when it came out that she spoke English.

It's interesting that driver's licenses are used twice as (potentially) incriminating objects - Sun wants to get rid of it so Jin never finds it, and then there was the real Henry Gale's license that incriminated Benry.

So far all the "extra" pieces seem to be quite innocuous except for this last one. Even now, after a few days of thinking about it, it still leaves a sour taste on my mind. We are much displeased with #8 and hope it does not mean we can expect more of the same in the future.

For us, it is a minor "shark jump" in the "Lost" story.

P. S. I know I posted on this already but I just had to add the "shark jump" bit to make a point.

I didn't like this one bit. We only have 4 women on the show and I think there's no need to have 2 of them flipflopping between 2 guys. Sun has been a well written character so far. I don't want TPTB to ruin her just for the sake of another love triangle. Not to mention that Sun and Jin have come a huge way in the last couple of seasons.

For us, it is a minor "shark jump" in the "Lost" story.

It's the big shark jump in the mobisodes and imo is irrelevant to the televised story.

I've said it before and will again - the mobisodes are nothing but a marketing experiment. I'm a John Terry junkie so enjoyed watching that one, but there's added relevant content in any of them.

workingmom,

I think this falls after the episode you mentioned where Sun is breaking down while Jin is heading for the beach. After she delivers all that English about how she was going to leave him, she ask him in Korean if they could just start again from the beginning. And he says "It's too late". (Been watching season 1 with my mom this week). Then he won't speak to her for weeks, while they are building the second raft.

Which would help to explain why she tells Michael that it's too late to talk to Jin, and why she felt abandoned and hopeless. She was having a moment of doubt and guilt. She was really almost totally isolated at this point--no one took the news that she spoke English very well at first. They all sort of backed away from her then for a short time, not trusting her because she hid the fact that she could speak English for the entire time she had been on the island.
100%
And I agree with Lostmio--these mobisodes are marketing, plain and simple. They don't introduce anything new, they don't change the storyline(as Darlton said they would not--anything really important to the story happens in televised episodes).

They are just designed to get you talking about Lost again before it returns.

I didn't like this one bit. We only have 4 women on the show and I think there's no need to have 2 of them flipflopping between 2 guys. Sun has been a well written character so far. I don't want TPTB to ruin her just for the sake of another love triangle. Not to mention that Sun and Jin have come a huge way in the last couple of seasons.

I agree. I love Lost, but I am often disappointed with their treatment of women. Kate had a lot of potential as a female lead character, and it's saddened me that her main story focuses on which man she chooses. The same with Sun, Jae and Jin (and now Michael). Even Juliet to a lesser degree.

I just wish they'd introduce a female with a storyline that doesn't center around which man she chooses. Not all women are like that.

I just wish they'd introduce a female with a storyline that doesn't center around which man she chooses. Not all women are like that.

Don't we all!

Just a curiosity... is it really possible to get a driver's license BEFORE you go to the USofA?

I agree. I love Lost, but I am often disappointed with their treatment of women. Kate had a lot of potential as a female lead character, and it's saddened me that her main story focuses on which man she chooses. The same with Sun, Jae and Jin (and now Michael). Even Juliet to a lesser degree.

I just wish they'd introduce a female with a storyline that doesn't center around which man she chooses. Not all women are like that.

So every woman's character on this show revolves around a man? I don't think so. If you say that about the women on the show you can say it about the men, too.

Just a curiosity... is it really possible to get a driver's license BEFORE you go to the USofA?

Not legally, but Sun's escape plan involved paying people to obtain false identification documents for her. She actually should have had a fake passport to be burying as well.

I don't get the outrage over this. The attraction between Sun and Michael was pretty palpable in Sun's early, unhappy days. I don't think this meant anything more than to underline this subtext. Also, Michael is coming back, so they want to remind viewers of various parts of his story they might have forgotten. The mobisodes are for marketing purposes but also extra revenue--that's what they are trying to cheat the writers out of--but while they're at it, they want to give a primer to any new viewers who might tune in for the first time.

But, yes, to those who see Vincent as one tuned in dog and a vehement yes to complaints about how tptb view women.

Cardie

Not much of a surprise here. Casts Sun (and Michael) in a rather poor light, but IMO there are some extenuating circumstances at work. Temptation Island?

I agree. I love Lost, but I am often disappointed with their treatment of women. Kate had a lot of potential as a female lead character, and it's saddened me that her main story focuses on which man she chooses. The same with Sun, Jae and Jin (and now Michael). Even Juliet to a lesser degree.

I just wish they'd introduce a female with a storyline that doesn't center around which man she chooses. Not all women are like that.


Kate still has amazing potential and she is still the female lead character. And it wasn't so much that her main story was which man she chooses...**edited**

I think these mobisodes are basically an experiment to see if they do anything for the show and if they will continue. I can take them or leave them.

I don't want another triangle to start!! No no no! Jin-Sun-Michael, I don't like it to be honest. I haven't rewatched S1 and S2 I probably should, and I think Sun and Michael were friends, not best buddies, but friends. But the idea of them in a relationship is something that I don't buy, specially in a clip of like 3 min :p
As for the female characters, I can see Kate as an interesting character again maybe if she's preggers, or whatever she did that saved her from not going straight to jail in the FF. Kate needs a story that doesn't involve jumping between Jack and Sawyer, but I haven't seen anything of that since S1 :( Sun already had her moment with a triangle, and to be honest I liked it, she even choose to stay with Jin and said she was sorry about that bald guy and I believed her, she was even happy to die if it meant the baby was Jin's and now this mobisode is making me think that all female Losties are immature and can't decide which man they want to be with. Is like that's the only story that TPTB can come up with for the female characters :(:(:(

I liked that we got to see Vincent :D

Well, even though this is admittedly OT, the triangle isn't about whether Kate chooses Jack or Sawyer. It's about what she has to struggle with inside of herself in order to explore and commit to ANY relationship. Which is why I couldn't care less about ships and such. The men she appears to be torn between are plot devices (as far as they relate to Kate) which allow her to face challenges.

**Edited**

Don't write off all the female characters based on this mobisode. I don't believe anything happened with Sun and Michael.

**edited**

**edited** I only meant that Jack and Sawyer's relationship to Kate is really about moving her struggle with her demons forward--not about them in the larger sense as characters. Only in the triangle context. ;) The way in which these three relate to one another romantically is about challenging their old beliefs and habits. They have slightly different, and sometimes majorly different, struggles within themselves outside of the triangle.

Should have been more clear about that.

**edited** I only meant that Jack and Sawyer's relationship to Kate is really about moving her struggle with her demons forward--not about them in the larger sense as characters. Only in the triangle context. ;) The way in which these three relate to one another romantically is about challenging their old beliefs and habits. They have slightly different, and sometimes majorly different, struggles within themselves outside of the triangle.

Should have been more clear about that.


I wasn't referring to your post though! It was the one before yours**edited**

Daphne

I wasn't referring to your post though! It was the one before yours. **edited**

Daphne


I didn't say she could only be interesting if she was pregnant. Just that it was a possibility for her character to do something outside the triangle. I just meant something outside the triangle, I'm sure TPTB can find something interesting for her outside the triangle and doesn't necessarily have to be pregnancy, it was just what came to my mind. I also talked about whatever she did to get off with her crimes and not be in jail in the FF, that could be interesting too :) I'm curious about that too ;)

You know, the more I think about this webisode, or whatever, the more I think it is setting up something to come in S4, which is beyond weird to me. I mean, how could someone ever be intimate with Michael after he killed two of the Losties?
Or, is it any different than Kate and Sawyer being intimate when they've both killed people? It certainly FEELS different....

Thinking more.....
I really don't think Sun and Michael will get together. Sun and Jin are really in a happy place right now. And to whomever said that the baby can't be Michael's, because of Sun's reaction in DOC: too true. She would have mentioned to Juliet that she wasn't sure who the father was from the island, because it wouldn't make sense to mention Jae to her and not Michael (if she had slept with him), you know?

I certainly don't feel betrayed by TPTB because of these little clips. I mean, they are just trying to give us something to munch on while we wait. And I appreciate that! I agree with whoever said they are just giving more subtext to the Sun and Michael relationship..... I preferred to just think that Jin was just jealous, but I guess we know a lot more about Sun than we did back in S1. We know that she has taken comfort in the arms of another man before. So I mean, I guess we shouldn't be all that suprised! I certainly don't find Michael solely responsible for the almost-kiss.

You know, the more I think about this webisode, or whatever, the more I think it is setting up something to come in S4, which is beyond weird to me. I mean, how could someone ever be intimate with Michael after he killed two of the Losties?
Or, is it any different than Kate and Sawyer being intimate when they've both killed people? It certainly FEELS different....

Thinking more.....
I really don't think Sun and Michael will get together. Sun and Jin are really in a happy place right now. And to whomever said that the baby can't be Michael's, because of Sun's reaction in DOC: too true. She would have mentioned to Juliet that she wasn't sure who the father was from the island, because it wouldn't make sense to mention Jae to her and not Michael (if she had slept with him), you know?

I certainly don't feel betrayed by TPTB because of these little clips. I mean, they are just trying to give us something to munch on while we wait. And I appreciate that! I agree with whoever said they are just giving more subtext to the Sun and Michael relationship..... I preferred to just think that Jin was just jealous, but I guess we know a lot more about Sun than we did back in S1. We know that she has taken comfort in the arms of another man before. So I mean, I guess we shouldn't be all that suprised! I certainly don't find Michael solely responsible for the almost-kiss.

Good point, in DOC I think Sun mentioned having a "friend" and that Jin and her were having problems, but from the context I really think she meant that bald guy. If they had a "fling" I don't remember any emphasis on Sun's reaction when Libby and Ana Lucia died. I think Sun would have mention I have sleep with two different men (well 3 actually) since Juliet is about to determine if she will live or die, plus once Juliet told her that the baby had been conceived on the island she immediately said "It's Jin's" or something like that, I was about to cry so I don't remember exactly.

If something happens between these two, and I'm not really happy about it, I think it will be in the future, not in the past, if that makes any sense :frown: . But Sun loves Jin, so I don't think that's possible :confused: unless something happens to Jin...:eek2:

Edit: Vincent should be in all mobisodes!

Kate needs a story that doesn't involve jumping between Jack and Sawyer, but I haven't seen anything of that since S1 :( Sun already had her moment with a triangle, and to be honest I liked it, she even choose to stay with Jin and said she was sorry about that bald guy and I believed her, she was even happy to die if it meant the baby was Jin's and now this mobisode is making me think that all female Losties are immature and can't decide which man they want to be with. Is like that's the only story that TPTB can come up with for the female characters :(:(:(

I liked that we got to see Vincent :D

Yeah, those are pretty much my sentiments. I'd like to see Kate do something more heroic for everyone else. It bugs me that she flip flops between Jack and Sawyer. I could tolerate Sun's triangle better than the J/K/S triangle. Her story in DOC really showed some character growth. She was over Jae and hoping the baby was Jin's. But I really don't like that they've returned to the Jin/Sun/Michael triangle. It cheapened Sun's character for me in S1, and I was glad to forget about it. Maybe they're just trying to remind us of how far her character has come since S1. It's just disappointing to me.

I've been watching the first season over again, and that's exactly what it was. The audience suspected something, but there isn't really anything in the actual episodes that shows something going on between them.I agree that nothing was shown to us that something was going on, but I do feel there were a few times that we were given a hint that Michael was attracted to Sun and vice versa. But I can't blame anyone for being attracted to another person ... even if that person is married ... because we don't plan our attractions, they just happen. And I think this mobisode supported that ... he was attracted to Sun but didn't go through with the kiss. Vincent might have had someone with him and that's why they broke off the kiss ... but I think Vincent was just a wake up call for Michael. Everyone had been under a lot of stress and often sex is used to relieve stress, or the tension of very bad times. I think this little clip only served to prove them both human. I don't think anything more happened because it was just an opportunistic event. It passed and so did the emotions. I don't think he took advantage ... I think that at that moment it was what both wanted but the moment passed.

As for Michael coming back, I'm glad and I believe there will be much more to his character than Harold was given in the earlier seasons.

Sun's Alias on the drivers license, they gave us just enough letters to make a anagram of the word..


Orchid

Sun's Alias on the drivers license, they gave us just enough letters to make a anagram of the word..


Orchid



I need to see a picture!!! :eek2: What's her alias? I don't know. :confused: :confused: :confused: I'm curious!!

Doc, totally cool! :)

I need to see a picture!!! :eek2: What's her alias? I don't know. :confused: :confused: :confused: I'm curious!!

From the Dark One...

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Watching Exodus Part 1 right now, and Jin also says that he thinks that he is on the island because he is being punished. (as Sun does about herself in the mobisode)

Nice that this brings it around full circle. Puts a different light on the mobisode--that Sun and Jin were both feeling the same shame and guilt over their actions toward one another but were hopeless at communicating it at the time.

Explains the handshake Michael and Sun give each other as the raft is preparing to leave as well.

I don't think that anything more happened between Sun and Michael than what we have been shown, nor do I think anything more will.

Not legally, but Sun's escape plan involved paying people to obtain false identification documents for her. She actually should have had a fake passport to be burying as well.

I don't get the outrage over this. The attraction between Sun and Michael was pretty palpable in Sun's early, unhappy days. I don't think this meant anything more than to underline this subtext. Also, Michael is coming back, so they want to remind viewers of various parts of his story they might have forgotten. The mobisodes are for marketing purposes but also extra revenue--that's what they are trying to cheat the writers out of--but while they're at it, they want to give a primer to any new viewers who might tune in for the first time.

But, yes, to those who see Vincent as one tuned in dog and a vehement yes to complaints about how tptb view women.

Cardie

I totally agree, and couldn't have said it better.

I don't believe anything ever happened between the Sun and Michael, but the potential had been there. It was never fully actualised though, due to circumstances and the opportunity being missed. Rather like that other infamous romantic triangle which I believe is no longer really a reality anymore**edited**.

It's a pity that a possible pregnancy may not be enough to end Kate's flip flopping dilemma that we are all so tired of but that's the writers choice to throw in ambiguous scenes, not ours. Wouldn't it be great not to have to endure any more drawn out triangles, or quadrangles? So I really hope this is merely a missing piece to remind us of previous connections to prepare us for Michael's return and NOT an indication of more romantic entanglements.

Just get on with the story please! The season of romance was LAST season.

I'm thinking that perhaps this is set up for a future arc with Sun and Michael, but ONLY if Jin were to die on the island. Otherwise, it was just a simple confirmation that there was some attraction between these two in S1.

So I really hope this is merely a missing piece to remind us of previous connections to prepare us for Michael's return and NOT an indication of more romantic entanglements.


I think that could well be the reason why this scene was included in a mobisode. I imagine the vast majority of fans - those who don't go online - are not even aware of mobisodes, so I can't see any of them having a great meaning to them, not otherwise revealed. As you said Z, it was already apparent in earlier episodes that there was an attraction between Sun and Michael. That is what most people will remember if the subject is brought up again next season. I don't believe this almost-kiss led to any more between these two, up until this point in time anyway.

I've been saying since we found out that Sun was pregnant that she was going to give birth to a mini-Michael. I was kidding based on the obvious attraction between them and then we later get to find out that Sun really is a lying, manipulative, cheating little errr.....thing, so then I thought maybe she really could be knocked up with Michael's kid and then DOC was presented and I guess even if Sun did boff Michael she could calculate backwards and determine which guy she was sleeping with that week and judging by her excitement that was the week she slept with Jin.

However, according to Juliet's calculations the baby was approximately 8 weeks or 53 days along in its development and it was day 90 on the island at that point, which means it would've been conceived on or around day 37 on the island. Were Jin and Sun even speaking at that point? Of course you don't have to talk to have sex so I guess that doesn't matter.

It's just a mobisode and the general audience will never see it so I doubt it has any real meaning, but I guess for those of us that suspected there was more to Sun and Michael than we were shown, it's a bit of a confirmation.

The audience for these mobisodes is so miniscule that I don't think anyone needs to worry that they're breaking any new ground for next year. I wouldn't actually mind seeing Sun and Michael hook up in the future, because I'm always enticed by wild, outlandish plot developments like that. However, I don't expect to see it. At least not based on this mobisode. Both Sun and Michael have serious dark sides and would make a fascinating pair though, whether romantic or platonic.

The writers have made it plain on many occasions that there's only one major love triangle in this story, and it's not going anywhere until the end of the show. I don't think we'll see any new ones or any major variations on the one they've got, except for Juliet weaving through it somehow.

Time for a little reminder, it seems...

Please don't forget that ALL INFORMATION ABOUT SEASON 4 MUST BE SPOILER FONTED - and that includes CASTING SPOILERS!

I don't get the outrage over this. The attraction between Sun and Michael was pretty palpable in Sun's early, unhappy days. I don't think this meant anything more than to underline this subtext.


No, it wasn't. Seeing their interactions during the first season as being hints of mutual attraction is more about what the viewer expects to happen than what was presented on screen. I just watched the first season, and the only real hint at attraction between the two was when Michael stumbles upon Sun bathing.

What gets me outraged is that this is another example of going back and changing what went on in the previous seasons. If they had meant for this to happen during the first season, they would have shown it.

I also don't think anything more happened after this, but this mobisode says a lot about both their characters. They WERE going to kiss if it hadn't been for Vincent. Makes me think that Sun is even more of a hooch and a liar--I seem to remember her telling Jin that there was nothing going on between her and Michael. As for him, he's not only a murderer, he's also willing to make a move on a vulnerable woman whom he knew to be married.

No, it wasn't. Seeing their interactions during the first season as being hints of mutual attraction is more about what the viewer expects to happen than what was presented on screen. I just watched the first season, and the only real hint at attraction between the two was when Michael stumbles upon Sun bathing.

What gets me outraged is that this is another example of going back and changing what went on in the previous seasons. If they had meant for this to happen during the first season, they would have shown it.

I also don't think anything more happened after this, but this mobisode says a lot about both their characters. They WERE going to kiss if it hadn't been for Vincent. Makes me think that Sun is even more of a hooch and a liar--I seem to remember her telling Jin that there was nothing going on between her and Michael. As for him, he's not only a murderer, he's also willing to make a move on a vulnerable woman whom he knew to be married.

I don't believe they are rewriting history at all. It seemed to me that Sun and Michael exchanged more than one suspicious look. I believe this fits it right with events from S1 and it explains a lot but at the same time I don't think it will have an effect on future events.

From the Dark One...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R3BFbqPcu0I/AAAAAAAAPvo/_pqO82SGjyA/s1600-h/69056C82_6469651.flv_000038080.jpg
(http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R3BFbqPcu0I/AAAAAAAAPvo/_pqO82SGjyA/s1600-h/69056C82_6469651.flv_000038080.jpg)I'm sorry but I can't make it out. Could someone spell it out for me (and don't forget the spoiler font)? :biggrin:

I'm thinking that perhaps this is set up for a future arc with Sun and Michael, but ONLY if Jin were to die on the island. Otherwise, it was just a simple confirmation that there was some attraction between these two in S1.That would be very interesting. I wouldn't mind it if Jin died but I don't want him to die. I like Jin. :)

The audience for these mobisodes is so miniscule that I don't think anyone needs to worry that they're breaking any new ground for next year. I wouldn't actually mind seeing Sun and Michael hook up in the future, because I'm always enticed by wild, outlandish plot developments like that. However, I don't expect to see it. At least not based on this mobisode. Both Sun and Michael have serious dark sides and would make a fascinating pair though, whether romantic or platonic.

The writers have made it plain on many occasions that there's only one major love triangle in this story, and it's not going anywhere until the end of the show. I don't think we'll see any new ones or any major variations on the one they've got, except for Juliet weaving through it somehow.I know Michael killed Libby and AL but what serious dark side of Sun have? I can't see her having an affair as qualifying for a dark side. And what would be so "wild and outlandish" as an affair between a man that is alone on the island (companion-wise) and a woman who has cheated on her husband before?

I don't believe they are rewriting history at all. It seemed to me that Sun and Michael exchanged more than one suspicious look. I believe this fits it right with events from S1 and it explains a lot but at the same time I don't think it will have an effect on future events.Have to agree here 100%. We were given a taste of their attraction and to find out that it lead to an almost-kiss, I think, only fortifies that.

I know Michael killed Libby and AL but what serious dark side of Sun have? I can't see her having an affair as qualifying for a dark side. And what would be so "wild and outlandish" as an affair between a man that is alone on the island (companion-wise) and a woman who has cheated on her husband before?

.

Sun also was willing to poison her husband to keep him from going on the raft. She lied to him for a fairly long period of time about her plan to abandon him. It was shown that she was responsible for Jin having to work as a bloody enforcer for her father, when she made a deal with her father behind Jin's back. And we don't really know the full details of how her lover died. Sun looks sweet and innocent, but the dark side we've seen glimmers of is the part that makes her interesting.

When I spoke about a wild plot for Sun and Michael, I wasn't talking about an island affair. I was referring to the possibility that Sun and Michael will be shown in some kind of collusion, with or without romantic overtones, in the coming flash forwards. I enjoy the dark sides of these characters and these two are both an interesting mixture of self serving opportunism combined with deep loyalty to those they love. My favorite thing about the characters on this show is the way they show that good and evil coexist in most human beings, and are not mutually exclusive conditions. I really wouldn't mind seeing this relationship developed further.

I gotta say, this felt....."forced".
It just didn't seem like the characters. It felt more like someone who saw the show only a couple of times wrote the scene.

I gotta say, this felt....."forced".
It just didn't seem like the characters. It felt more like someone who saw the show only a couple of times wrote the scene.

Well, it was written by Christina Kim, who gave us the best hour of Lost with A Stranger in A Strange Land.

this Sun, phew man, i tell u, she is hot for it

Well, it was written by Christina Kim, who gave us the best hour of Lost with A Stranger in A Strange Land.

Do I detect a little, tiny, wee bit of sarcasm here, pibbs? ;)

VF- I think that it is the opposite!

Jin and Sun both chose actions that they felt were serving the other. Jin took the job with her father to make himself worthy and then found himself over his head and wanting out, Sun was trying to protect Jin's honeor when she took the money form her father that meant that Jin would never be free of him.

That's the tragedy here. They both did what they thought was best for the other, and it led them both to such shame and secrets that they barely knew one another eventually. Even though they still loved one another. In many ways, their redemption story is the most accessible to us, as we have all been on this continuum if we have ever been in a long term relationship.

I don't know this for a fact, but I have often suspected that the fans who don't like the Jin/Sun storyline are young. Young enough that they have never been in a long term, committed relationship. Because those of us who are older, and have been in such relationships, can see how they went off the rails through a series of small choices that seemed to be right at the time they were made, but ultimately divided them. All long term relationships are in this sort of peril--Jin and Sun's story just amplifies it.

Do I detect a little, tiny, wee bit of sarcasm here, pibbs? ;)

:biggrin:

Well, it was written by Christina Kim, who gave us the best hour of Lost with A Stranger in A Strange Land.

I know who it was written by. It still felt forced to me.
I'm glad it wasn't part of the show at the time.Granted, that's my opinion, but it reminded me when Marvel comics used to let their assistant editors do a whole month.
There was always something just not quit right.
It made it seem Sun would pretty much sleep with ANYone at that point.
Poor Jin.

I know who it was written by. It still felt forced to me.
I'm glad it wasn't part of the show at the time.Granted, that's my opinion, but it reminded me when Marvel comics used to let their assistant editors do a whole month.
There was always something just not quit right.
It made it seem Sun would pretty much sleep with ANYone at that point.
Poor Jin.

I'm in total agreement with you. I wish this mobisode would be purged from the continuity of the series. I was just pointing out that the same writer gave us a less than stellar script before.

I'm in total agreement with you. I wish this mobisode would be purged from the continuity of the series. I was just pointing out that the same writer gave us a less than stellar script before.

Oh! Got it!
Sorry, my sarcasm detector broke over at Sci-fi.com and I don't have it up and running to full capacity.
:)

Doc, totally cool! :)

Thanks. And don't sweat the other stuff.....ever!!!;) (I did PM you back)

take care.

doc

VF- I think that it is the opposite!

Jin and Sun both chose actions that they felt were serving the other. Jin took the job with her father to make himself worthy and then found himself over his head and wanting out, Sun was trying to protect Jin's honeor when she took the money form her father that meant that Jin would never be free of him.

That's the tragedy here. They both did what they thought was best for the other, and it led them both to such shame and secrets that they barely knew one another eventually. Even though they still loved one another. In many ways, their redemption story is the most accessible to us, as we have all been on this continuum if we have ever been in a long term relationship.

I don't know this for a fact, but I have often suspected that the fans who don't like the Jin/Sun storyline are young. Young enough that they have never been in a long term, committed relationship. Because those of us who are older, and have been in such relationships, can see how they went off the rails through a series of small choices that seemed to be right at the time they were made, but ultimately divided them. All long term relationships are in this sort of peril--Jin and Sun's story just amplifies it.

This has been my suspicion as well; and I'm always left puzzled when I read comments about how boring their story has been. IMO, it's been one, if not the best written, honest and heartbreaking storylines of the show. That's not even including the fact that the characters are played by two of the most talented actors within the cast.

As far as how this mobisode will effect the storyline between Sun/Michael and Jin as the series moves forward, I have no idea.

I didn't say I didn't like the Sun/Jin relationship. I do find it quite fascinating and unique within this story. I wasn't discussing that when I mentioned that Sun has a dark side. I think it goes well beyond marital compromises. She has an extraordinary ability to lie and deceive. We really don't know what her limits are, just as we didn't know Michael's.

VF-the last part of my comment wasn't meant to be directed at you--just a general observation that I'm puzzled at times about folks not liking their storyline, not you in particular. ;) Sorry if it came off that way.

And I agree with you that it's the interplay of light in dark in the characters that make them interesting.

I didn't say I didn't like the Sun/Jin relationship. I do find it quite fascinating and unique within this story. I wasn't discussing that when I mentioned that Sun has a dark side. I think it goes well beyond marital compromises. She has an extraordinary ability to lie and deceive. We really don't know what her limits are, just as we didn't know Michael's.

No, we really don't, and that's another part of their story that I've enjoyed immensely. We've been made privy to a much darker side of Sun than one would suspect by just looking at her. We may discover that Jin is capable of a lot more than we've seen so far, especially now that Sun and the survival of their child is in immediate danger.

To be quite honest, I fear what will become of Michael. Something tells me that killing Libby and Ana Lucia will not be his last terrible thing he does for Walt's sake.

Btw, I wasn't suggesting you didn't like Sun/Jin's story. My reply was to the point, KeepingAwake made about the younger ones who usually comment about not caring for them.

No, we really don't, and that's another part of their story that I've enjoyed immensely. We've been made privy to a much darker side of Sun than one would suspect by just looking at her. We may discover that Jin is capable of a lot more than we've seen so far, especially now that Sun and the survival of their child is in immediate danger.

To be quite honest, I fear what will become of Michael. Something tells me that killing Libby and Ana Lucia will not be his last terrible thing he does for Walt's sake.

Btw, I wasn't suggesting you didn't like Sun/Jin's story. My reply was to the point, KeepingAwake made about the younger ones who usually comment about not caring for them.

I have to disagree. I think killing Ana Lucia and Libby was the worst we will ever see out of Michael. I think from here here on out we will see Michael trying to redeem himself from the mistakes that he made.

Uhm, maybe you should read the reminder I posted in this thread yesterday again...

Sorry about that. :)


Hey I'm in economy now!!! Bought time.

ryan, I do hope to be proven wrong.

Have to agree here 100%. We were given a taste of their attraction and to find out that it lead to an almost-kiss, I think, only fortifies that.

I agree, too... rewatching Season 1, I wasn't sure if there really was something more to the looks Michael and Sun gave each other or if I was just making stuff up in my head because that's what my mind's eye sees when I see looks like that between two very attractive people.

I believe this is the first real confirmation that there could have been something if circumstances didn't play out the way they did. Is it rewriting history? No, I don't think so because the seed of this was always there, and really this isn't much of anything other than confirmation of something everyone already strongly suspected, that there was a bit of an attraction there.

I agree, too... rewatching Season 1, I wasn't sure if there really was something more to the looks Michael and Sun gave each other or if I was just making stuff up in my head because that's what my mind's eye sees when I see looks like that between two very attractive people.

I believe this is the first real confirmation that there could have been something if circumstances didn't play out the way they did. Is it rewriting history? No, I don't think so because the seed of this was always there, and really this isn't much of anything other than confirmation of something everyone already strongly suspected, that there was a bit of an attraction there.
Yea, I think you hit the nail on the head. I do think that this mobisode was to reinforce what many thought they might have imagined. Now we know ... for whatever reason, the two were drawn to each other.

And as for those that think Sun was being wrong or Michael was taking advantage ... I don't agree at all. We can't look at just that small moment we cannot forget the envelope of life-shattering terror that had surrounded them up until then. This was like two happily married people suddenly finding the other in a war trench ... alone and scared, they reach out to each other. It doesn't mean that it's love, it doesn't even mean it's lust. It simply means, 'I'm scared ... hold me' and it often leads to more but in normal circumstances, I don't think Michael would have done anything and I truly believe that Sun learned her lesson and wouldn't do that again either.

Oh, I also think that when she said she was afraid to leave Jin I don't think she meant afraid "of" Jin ... but afraid to be alone ... away from him ... afraid to start over. It's not uncommon for people in bad relationships to stick with them because the fear of 'what's out there' is for frightening than the horror they live with day in and day out.

Check out the screencap of Sun's Drivers Liscence...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R3UUeaPcvcI/AAAAAAAAP0k/F-kpfEezhNE/s1600-h/sun.jpg

...it expires March 20th, 2008!

So now the question is does this date mean anything or does the numbers 032008 mean anything?

Well if you look at the dates that LOST is airing this season, LOST Season 4 starts on January 31 which is a Thursday and continues to air on Thursdays for the season.

They are promising that a new episode will air each week until the season is done with no reruns or missed shows.

They only have 8 episodes ready to air because of the writers strike and they may only air those 8 episodes this year if the strike continues.

If you follow the pattern of a new LOST episode every Thursday the Episode 7 will air on March 14 and Episode 8 is sceduled to air on March 21!

Could this signify that something happens to Sun by episode 7? Does she get off the island?

Maybe she doesnt make it to episode 8? Does she die?

Did the writers do this on purpose or could this be an eiry form of Art imitating Life in that the LOST mobisode actually predicted the writers strike putting a premature end to Season 4? Hows that for a twist...the Mobisode is actually a FlashFuture of the show!

As for the numbers...032008

0+3=3

2+0=2

0+8=8

3+2+8=13

1+3=4

4 is the first number in the string of 4,8,15,16,23,42...beyond that I dont know! Just some food for thought!

The liscence also gives her address as 4671 Vista Lima...In Spanish Lima = Files and a Vista is...

a) An unincorporated community of southern California north of San Diego. It is a resort and agricultural area.

or b) A distant view or prospect, especially one seen through an opening, as between rows of buildings or trees.

Hmmm...a distant view...could this be a reference to Flash Forwards?

Does anyone know what the RSTR #'s on a California Drivers License mean?

35 36 38 41

3+5=8

3+6=9

3+8=11 1+1=2

4+1=5

8+9+2+5=24 2+4=6 ????????????????

Look at the Date the License was issues...March 20, 2004!

According to http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pre-crash_timeline Sun didnt make plans to disapear from her family until September 2004 so why did she get a Drivers License so early if that was the case?

In Spanish Lima is not Files, but File (singular), as in the one prisoners used to file down the cell bars in cartoons. It's also the capital of Perú, and what Americans call lemons.

(That last one is actually peculiar, the yellow citrus fruit used in tea is called lemon in English and lima in Spanish, while the green citrus fruit is called lime in English and limón in Spanish. One would think it would be reverse, but it's not)

Wow. An affair with Michael would really cast Sun in a bad light. I'd have thought she would have been grieving just a little for her dead lover while having made the decision to stay with her husband and get their marriage back to a good place. Throwing in an affair with Michael would be a lot of emotional baggage to handle at any time in your life. Throw in the plane crash and ---- Holy Crap.

I don't care for Michael, he became a very angry man. For reasons I'm still not understanding.

I wasn't sorry to see Michael, Mr. Eko and Ana-Lucia die off. For some reason -to me- their character flaws were more self imposed than the human falliability we see in the other characters.

Check out the screencap of Sun's Drivers Liscence...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R3UUeaPcvcI/AAAAAAAAP0k/F-kpfEezhNE/s1600-h/sun.jpg

...it expires March 20th, 2008!

So now the question is does this date mean anything or does the numbers 032008 mean anything?

Well if you look at the dates that LOST is airing this season, LOST Season 4 starts on January 31 which is a Thursday and continues to air on Thursdays for the season.

They are promising that a new episode will air each week until the season is done with no reruns or missed shows.

They only have 8 episodes ready to air because of the writers strike and they may only air those 8 episodes this year if the strike continues.

If you follow the pattern of a new LOST episode every Thursday the Episode 7 will air on March 14 and Episode 8 is sceduled to air on March 21!

Could this signify that something happens to Sun by episode 7? Does she get off the island?

Maybe she doesnt make it to episode 8? Does she die?

Did the writers do this on purpose or could this be an eiry form of Art imitating Life in that the LOST mobisode actually predicted the writers strike putting a premature end to Season 4? Hows that for a twist...the Mobisode is actually a FlashFuture of the show!

As for the numbers...032008

0+3=3

2+0=2

0+8=8

3+2+8=13

1+3=4

4 is the first number in the string of 4,8,15,16,23,42...beyond that I dont know! Just some food for thought!

The liscence also gives her address as 4671 Vista Lima...In Spanish Lima = Files and a Vista is...

a) An unincorporated community of southern California north of San Diego. It is a resort and agricultural area.

or b) A distant view or prospect, especially one seen through an opening, as between rows of buildings or trees.

Hmmm...a distant view...could this be a reference to Flash Forwards?

Does anyone know what the RSTR #'s on a California Drivers License mean?

35 36 38 41

3+5=8

3+6=9

3+8=11 1+1=2

4+1=5

8+9+2+5=24 2+4=6 ????????????????

Look at the Date the License was issues...March 20, 2004!

According to http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Pre-crash_timeline Sun didnt make plans to disapear from her family until September 2004 so why did she get a Drivers License so early if that was the case?You have done some fantastic figuring! :clap:

My 2 cents:

I doubt there is any significance to the airing dates and the date on the license because the date that the show would return was not settled until well after this mobisode was filmed. first the date was for Feb and then Jan 31 ... so I think that part is just coincidence but cool NTL. ;)
As for the early date on the license ... keep in mind that this is most likely an illegally obtained license. The name is fake and so the date doesn't have to coincide (and probably doesn't) with when she actually asked for the license.
I have a Calif DL and my RSTR says CORR LENS because I wear glasses so I don't know why there would be numbers there. :confused: I think that might be just for the fact that it's a fake license in real life.Wish I had time to write more but I'm back from lunch and have to get back to work. I'll pick this up when I get home later tonight. Thanks for the info. This should make for great speculation!

I wasn't sorry to see Michael, Mr. Eko and Ana-Lucia die off.
Why do you think Michael is dead?
The last time we saw him he was leaving on a boat with Walt seeking rescue at the end of Season 2.

Maybe I am missing something, but what I see is an expiration date of 3-20-200something.

I've never lived in CA, but I have lived in5 states, and some states use the day on which you applied for the license as the expiration date and some use your birthday. Anyone know which date CA uses?

Maybe I am missing something, but what I see is an expiration date of 3-20-200something.

I've never lived in CA, but I have lived in5 states, and some states use the day on which you applied for the license as the expiration date and some use your birthday. Anyone know which date CA uses?CA uses your DOB.

Check out the screencap of Sun's Drivers Liscence...

http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R3UUeaPcvcI/AAAAAAAAP0k/F-kpfEezhNE/s1600-h/sun.jpg

...it expires March 20th, 2008!

So now the question is does this date mean anything or does the numbers 032008 mean anything?

Well if you look at the dates that LOST is airing this season, LOST Season 4 starts on January 31 which is a Thursday and continues to air on Thursdays for the season.

They are promising that a new episode will air each week until the season is done with no reruns or missed shows.

They only have 8 episodes ready to air because of the writers strike and they may only air those 8 episodes this year if the strike continues.

If you follow the pattern of a new LOST episode every Thursday the Episode 7 will air on March 14 and Episode 8 is sceduled to air on March 21!




March 20, 2008 would be a Thursday and the 8th episode.

So can someone tell us what Sun's name is on her CA DL? I cannot make it out.

I understand many people consider this is an upsetting mobisode - and hell, it upset me. But because it upset me, I have an appreciation for it. Why?

In Season 1, the only thing which was the past was pre-Island. The viewer gets the sense that redemption occurs because of the Island. ("It doesn't matter, Kate, who we were or what we have done - we get to start over").

Later, on-Island flashbacks occur more and more and more! And in those certain flashbacks, you have to wonder, has redemption really occurred?

I am not worried at all about another triangle occurring. After all, this is only a "Missing Piece." Nothing more, nothing less.

So can someone tell us what Sun's name is on her CA DL? I cannot make it out.


Looks like Dahlia Choi to me.

March 20, 2008 would be a Thursday and the 8th episode.

So could the drivers license experation date be a clue to Sun's 'experation date?' It would line up with some of the spoilers we have seen (before I went on my spoiler strike :))

I know Michael killed 2 innocent people but I think at lot of us would have done the same thing. So I don't think we should be so quick to condemn him. I think his story is going to become more interesting then its ever been now that he needs to seek redemption. This may so bad, but if I was in the same situation I would have probably done the same thing. Family vs. people I have known for 2 weeks. Given the circumstances I would have chosen my son.

March 20, 2008 would be a Thursday and the 8th episode.

Oh your right...I originally thought the Thurs was th 21...ooooh that is eery eh? Its got to be either the biggested coincidence in all history or it points to the "expiration" of Sun or maybe as I have said in an earlier post its a easter egg thrown in there by the writers in reference to the writers strike and the fact they only have 8 episodes ready.

This may so bad, but if I was in the same situation I would have probably done the same thing. Family vs. people I have known for 2 weeks. Given the circumstances I would have chosen my son.

Yeah because its been on the air for 4 years now its sometimes hard to remember that they have only been on the island for a couple of months in total and at the time Michael killed Libby only a few weeks!

I wonder if they knew when episode 8 was going to air when they filmed this mobisode?


Isn't episode 8 going to be Michael's fb/ff? How could that tie in with Sun? Could they be together? (I personally doubt it but you never know, this is Lost)


Wait, just thought of someting. Maybe when filming this mobisode the show was planned for it's regular airing of early February. Bumping it back a week and the date would have landed on episode 7. That episode is Jin/Sun's. And we've all heard about the rumors from that.... I was leaning toward Jin dying but what if it is Sun. They said they were filming Sun at a funeral... what if it's hers?

I have a Calif DL and my RSTR says CORR LENS because I wear glasses so I don't know why there would be numbers there. :confused: I think that might be just for the fact that it's a fake license in real life.


I think it says the restrictions are: 35, 36, 38, 41.
Can you tell me if a real CA license shows restrictions like this on it, and if so what those restrictions are?

I gotta say, this felt....."forced".
It just didn't seem like the characters. It felt more like someone who saw the show only a couple of times wrote the scene.

What??? If you have seen season 1 you would know there was obvious sexual tension between Sun and Michael. It's clearly embedded in their dialog and infact most fans already suspected that there was more to their relationship then we were told and probably expected something like this. It makes perfect sense and fits in perfectly with the continuity of the show.

So could the drivers license experation date be a clue to Sun's 'experation date?' It would line up with some of the spoilers we have seen (before I went on my spoiler strike :))I hope not. If anything, I hope it's just when (if she does) she gets off the island.

I know Michael killed 2 innocent people but I think at lot of us would have done the same thing. So I don't think we should be so quick to condemn him. I think his story is going to become more interesting then its ever been now that he needs to seek redemption. This may so bad, but if I was in the same situation I would have probably done the same thing. Family vs. people I have known for 2 weeks. Given the circumstances I would have chosen my son.I say this every time someone goes into how dark and evil what he did was. I'm not condoning it but being a parent I know I would do what ever I thought it would take to save my child's life. As far as Michael knew, it was his only option. He had no way of knowing if the Others would know if he talked to one of his group and asked for help or told what had been asked of him. All he knew is that they had his son and they promised to let him go free if he did what they wanted (getting Ben back safely). This wasn't in some civilized city where he could hopefully contact the police for help without the kidnappers knowing.

I think it says the restrictions are: 35, 36, 38, 41.
Can you tell me if a real CA license shows restrictions like this on it, and if so what those restrictions are?I've never seen anything there but lenses or other devices like hearing aids. Perhaps a search of the CA DMV site would turn up some answers.

Looks like Dahlia Choi to me.First, thanks. :biggrin: Second, if that is it ... I guess it isn't an anagram for ORCHID.

Ok,just throwing my 2 cents in for the first time on this board
I think this MOBisodes significance is
1)The drivers licence...like The Real Henry Gales
and
2)Setting up an aliance between Sun and Michael
at the moment she may be Michaels only 'Savior' amongst the LOSTaways
I know if I knew what he did,
I'd NOT welcome him with open arms
and I suspect 'They' won't eather
so Sun may be THE only one who helps him
in S4

I being a parent would do anything for my children,
BUT would have tried to do things differently then he did

Like I said just my 2 cents

Patty, you can put your :twocents: in anytime.

Ok,just throwing my 2 cents in for the first time on this board
I think this MOBisodes significance is
1)The drivers licence...like The Real Henry Gales




Heres Henry Gales license...http://echofaith.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/03/ef_galelicense.jpg

...notice his address (815 Walnut Ridge Road)...815...flight 815...they slipped that into this license so I think its safe to assume somethings been slipped into Sun's!

Check out the numbers under his photo...152-996-431-000

1+5+2+9+9+6+4+3+1+0+0+0=40

4+0=4 which is also the start of the LOST numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42)

Look at the Zip code...55391

5+5+3+9+1=23 which is also in the LOST number string!

Look at the expiry date...03...Henry Gale supposedly crashed on the island in 2003 and I guess you could say he expired as well in 2003! If this holds up to Sun's License I think we can guess shes going to kick the bucket in episode 8!

oh goodness, i hope this is a not a signal that sun will expire this season! frankly, i've always hoped that jin would die (sorry jin) because i think having sun become single would make her character much more interesting. she's quite dependant on jin now and if he were gone, i imagine her metamorphisis would be very compelling.

i'm not disappointed or upset by this mobisode. frankly, i liked it. it was the first mobisode that made me whisper "OMG" while i was watching it.

i also don't see it as forced, rewriting history, or revealing that sun and/or michael are bad people. first, it was strongly hinted in S1 that sun and michael shared a connection, probably based on mutual attraction. and i can't enter a quote right now, but someone wisely pointed out a few pages back that these people are going through something that none of us can imagine. when you are separated from normal society and spend 24 hours a day fearing for your life, you have a lot of unusual emotional reactions and form bonds that are quite unlike any relationships you would have in the real world (just as a solider). michael and sun didn't make out, or start a secret affair, they just had a moment, brought on by the intense situtation they found themselves in. i don't think it's that outrageous.

and although i'm not supporting a jin-sun-michael triangle, i just want to say to everyone that so vehemently hates the love triangles on the island, it may suck for you to have to watch these, but some of us enjoy it. for some of us, how the relationships on the island resolve is just as important as where the smoke monster came from, who jacob is, etc.

oh goodness, i hope this is a not a signal that sun will expire this season! frankly, i've always hoped that jin would die (sorry jin) because i think having sun become single would make her character much more interesting. she's quite dependant on jin now and if he were gone, i imagine her metamorphisis would be very compelling.

i'm not disappointed or upset by this mobisode. frankly, i liked it. it was the first mobisode that made me whisper "OMG" while i was watching it.

i also don't see it as forced, rewriting history, or revealing that sun and/or michael are bad people. first, it was strongly hinted in S1 that sun and michael shared a connection, probably based on mutual attraction. and i can't enter a quote right now, but someone wisely pointed out a few pages back that these people are going through something that none of us can imagine. when you are separated from normal society and spend 24 hours a day fearing for your life, you have a lot of unusual emotional reactions and form bonds that are quite unlike any relationships you would have in the real world (just as a solider). michael and sun didn't make out, or start a secret affair, they just had a moment, brought on by the intense situtation they found themselves in. i don't think it's that outrageous.

and although i'm not supporting a jin-sun-michael triangle, i just want to say to everyone that so vehemently hates the love triangles on the island, it may suck for you to have to watch these, but some of us enjoy it. for some of us, how the relationships on the island resolve is just as important as where the smoke monster came from, who jacob is, etc.


I think that was me that commented on how their situation puts them into relationships that we can't begin to understand even though we may think we do or do try to. I agree, the moment was just that 'a moment' and whatever broke it up, if it was going to happen it would have but these mobisodes are only to give us tiny bits and pieces of what we didn't see during the show's 3 seasons and unless we get another one that shows them locked in a passionate embrace, I feel safe to say that this was all there was to it.

I understand what you mean about some people enjoying the character interactions as much as what Smokie is or what Jacob is but, speaking for me, I find the relationships very important but when the subject goes on and on for 3 seasons with hardly any resolution, it begins to feel like a soap opera where you can tune in weeks later and still not know who killed who or whose baby it is and they're still talking about it. I don't mind the triangle but I feel it should have been resolved by now and personally I don't want another one simply because it's been done. I think that's also why I don't want Jin to die (besides adoring the character) because we've already had the single pregnant woman with Claire and it didn't do anything to help her branch out or have more to do. Actually it did just the opposite and held her back. I feel confident that the next 3 seasons will be exciting because they will be different. I don't think they will repeat roles with different faces ... there is so much more to tell and a plethora of new characters coming (I'm guessing what with the boaties and all) that I feel they can tell the stories without repeating what's already been done. And actually, I'll be very disappointed if they can't.:frown:

Wouldn't be surprised if Sun's baby turns out to be Michael's


;)
Heheh

No wonder he left the show. I'm sure that as an actor running through the jungle and calling out names got really old, really fast, and here he is, doing it again!! I would hope that when his character returns to the island they give him some actual things to do.

I think that was me that commented on how their situation puts them into relationships that we can't begin to understand even though we may think we do or do try to. I agree, the moment was just that 'a moment' and whatever broke it up, if it was going to happen it would have but these mobisodes are only to give us tiny bits and pieces of what we didn't see during the show's 3 seasons and unless we get another one that shows them locked in a passionate embrace, I feel safe to say that this was all there was to it.

I understand what you mean about some people enjoying the character interactions as much as what Smokie is or what Jacob is but, speaking for me, I find the relationships very important but when the subject goes on and on for 3 seasons with hardly any resolution, it begins to feel like a soap opera where you can tune in weeks later and still not know who killed who or whose baby it is and they're still talking about it. I don't mind the triangle but I feel it should have been resolved by now and personally I don't want another one simply because it's been done. I think that's also why I don't want Jin to die (besides adoring the character) because we've already had the single pregnant woman with Claire and it didn't do anything to help her branch out or have more to do. Actually it did just the opposite and held her back. I feel confident that the next 3 seasons will be exciting because they will be different. I don't think they will repeat roles with different faces ... there is so much more to tell and a plethora of new characters coming (I'm guessing what with the boaties and all) that I feel they can tell the stories without repeating what's already been done. And actually, I'll be very disappointed if they can't.:frown:

it was you jb. i thought your post was really insightful. and, like i said, i certainly don't want to see a jin/sun/michael triangle. i suppose i was just defending the writers decision to really focus on relationships, which it seems some viewers don't appreciate. relationships drive changes and advancement of character, both in fiction and real life.
i must also clarify i don't actually want jin to die, i would just like to see sun come into her own in S4 and get more involved in the island action. i think that if jin were gone this would happen. i agree that for claire being single has not liberated her, but i think that's simply because she has a baby and they can't have her running all over the island with aaron strapped to her back. i feel as if both sun and claire have been under-developed, and i hope that changes in S4.

i feel as if both sun and claire have been under-developed, and i hope that changes in S4.
Exactly.

I thought the mobisode was ah...ahem...flat?

Apart from the driver's license shot and Vincent's timely barking, nothing was meaty. We were all aware that there was some kind of sexual tension between Sun and Mike, but nothing ever suggested that they went all the way and I dont think many people thought that it did. Or did people think it did??? Anyways, it was never my main preoccupation in the first 2 seasons to find out if Sun and Mike were doing it or not. I wanted Locke to get in the hatch in S1, and to quit being a heel in S2. And the mobi pretty much settles that. Nothing happened between them. (For now.) :biggrin: ;)

As far as Mike coming back, I hope it's to die on the Island like Mr eko did. I'm picturing Smoky shapeshifting into Libby to give Mike a chance for redemption. Of course, he'll say he'd do the same thing again to save his son's life. Then bring on the hand of God and be done with him. Wax on, Wax off.

EG, eek!

Wow on the Michael hating!

What would you see as Michael's redemption path? Just curious.

I think Michael is beyond redemption.

it was you jb. i thought your post was really insightful. and, like i said, i certainly don't want to see a jin/sun/michael triangle. i suppose i was just defending the writers decision to really focus on relationships, which it seems some viewers don't appreciate. relationships drive changes and advancement of character, both in fiction and real life.
i must also clarify i don't actually want jin to die, i would just like to see sun come into her own in S4 and get more involved in the island action. i think that if jin were gone this would happen. i agree that for claire being single has not liberated her, but i think that's simply because she has a baby and they can't have her running all over the island with aaron strapped to her back. i feel as if both sun and claire have been under-developed, and i hope that changes in S4.Thanks, sandiego. :biggrin: But if Claire was under used due to her being pregnant and then having to care for Aaron, how will it be any different for Sun being pregnant? Of course she's no where near as far along & we've already seen that her being pregnant won't hold her back and Jin doesn't have to die for that to happen. She was quite the leader when she, Jin and Sayid sailed to the Others make-believe camp and she shot Colleen. I know you don't want Jin to die ... I'm just trying to say that if they kill him off I can't see that as being liberating for Sun as she's already been shown to be liberated, pregnant or not. ;) But I can't argue that she and Claire have not been delved into on the island anywhere near as much as we'd like.

And yes, character relationships are hugely important and I think that the ups and downs of most of the characters have, for me, been honest and realistic (I speak mainly of Locke who has gone the gamut in personality changes). I think most of the characters have been shown to grow one way or another (but I think Jack is the one that I feel has changed the least - and I have to put Kate in there, too). I think they've been given tons to do and tons of situations but as people, I have seen very little change in them from when the plane crashed ... other than they smile a lot less now.

EG, eek!

Wow on the Michael hating!

What would you see as Michael's redemption path? Just curious.What redemption are you speaking of? Surely he has nothing to redeem himself over from that 'almost kiss' in the mobisode. As for shooting Libby and AL (which I guess is what you mean), personally I don't think what he did was any worse than, say, Sawyer shooting an innocent man based on info from a guy he honestly wouldn't have called a friend or a trustworthy associate or Kate burning her father alive, or Sayid torturing Sawyer (just to name a few). He did what a parent does when he is faced with losing his child. In the "real world" he'd have had the option of getting the police or FBI involved. On the island it was Michael verses the Others. Not good odds but to save your child, you do what you have to do. I don't feel he needs to redeem himself any more than anyone else on the island does. And the way I see all redemption on the island is that the offender has to find the forgiveness within themselves ... not from the rest of the Losties and really, I think that's true in the "real world", too. :) (I know you didn't ask me, but I had to put in my views. :biggrin: )

I've been trying to just enjoy the ride on the mobisodes... but "that's all I can stands and I can't stands no more."

Aside from my giggle and "whaaaaaaaaaaat?" reaction... this was really hard to swallow.

I gotta say, this felt....."forced".
It just didn't seem like the characters. It felt more like someone who saw the show only a couple of times wrote the scene.

I agree, too... rewatching Season 1, I wasn't sure if there really was something more to the looks Michael and Sun gave each other or if I was just making stuff up in my head because that's what my mind's eye sees when I see looks like that between two very attractive people.

I believe this is the first real confirmation that there could have been something if circumstances didn't play out the way they did. Is it rewriting history? No, I don't think so because the seed of this was always there, and really this isn't much of anything other than confirmation of something everyone already strongly suspected, that there was a bit of an attraction there.

I can hang with that... but they waited *so* long... the chemstry is gone. Although the chemistry is pretty poor on all of the mobisodes IMO.

Like, since when is Michael "sensitive"? He treats Sun very tenderly... but can't muster that with Walt. At least he should have come across a little more uncomfortable to be the Michael we knew from S1. At least a stutter... :drowsy:

Bah. I felt this episode was something I could have lived without seeing. Something about what you don't actually see is more powerful than what you do see. (Haha! That applies to every mystery that has been demystified on Lost!) Although Vincent's bark was amazing. I think that dog is possessed by Jacob. :p

I hope that they don't build the Michael/Sun could-be-romance story in season four. I like triangles sometime, but I can only wrap my head around a few at a time.

Oh, and it is a bummer the way women have been treated on on this show. I actually LOVE LOVE LOVE all the women's stories in flashbacks (Kate on the run is tragic, Ana Lucia went through a rough time with NO GUY, Juliet's relationship with her sister & whatnot and Claire's flashback with her(andjackos) daddy-- OMG!), but the island stories leave something to be desired (Kate's never ending choice, Ana Lucia is just a bia, Juliet just wants to go home & Jack on the side!, and Claire's very passive role in the series since we found out what happened to her baby); however, I feel as if some of these stories intertwined with the flashbacks make them work... but who knows. This also reminds me of how bitter I am about no sight of a gay character, but that's offtopic. It's a man's world I guess. :undecide:

I think they've been given tons to do and tons of situations but as people, I have seen very little change in them from when the plane crashed ... other than they smile a lot less now.



I agree somewhat as far as Kate is concerned, but completely disagree about Jack. First of all, he isn't one of the Losties who needed to drastically change. Sure he had some issues, but he's not a murderer, an arsonist, a con-man, a hit man, etc., etc. I think he's changed a lot and the last episode of Season 3 proved that ultimately. Kate, on the other hand, while she has changed somewhat, still has a lot of "soul searching" to do.

I think they will both find their redemption but they both also still have some work to do. They all do for that matter!

I guess the problem I have with Michael's story is that I can see other choices he had that didn't include murdering Ana. Libby was an accident.

For example, he could have told Jack and Sayid what the Others had proposed and I doubt Jack and Sayid would have said NO. I doubt Hurley, if asked, would have denied Michael his presence on that little expedition, neither would have Kate, Jack or Sawyer, for that matter.

If we are to be honest about this, TPTB have stated they wanted Michael to something shocking and horrible, they wanted him to murder two innocent people so that the audience would go into the discussions of the morality of his actions. But, I feel they didn't execute this plot that well. Michael had a choice and that choice could have equally saved Walt, I guess I don't see the "kill Ana or you'll never see Walt again" circumstance here and that's why I find the story less than stellar.

If that circumstance would have been clear, then I think we could have the moral discussions they wanted us to have. One side saying "You'd do anything to save your child" vs. "You shall not kill". It's the first part I'm not buying. Yes, a parent would do anything to save his child, but Michael was not trapped in a situation were murder was necessary to save Walt. As I said, he could have gotten Sayid and Jack's help. Or he could have asked Ana to leave and told her he'd take care of Ben. Or he could have gone into the armory with the gun, shot himself in the arm and give the gun to Ben, telling him to run and telling him that Ana was outside (Ben could have killed Ana then), when questioned, he could have said that he went in there to question Ben and Ben got the gun from him, shooting him in the arm.

So, you see, there are many things Michael could have done to save Walt where murdering Ana wasn't part of the deal. I guess, for me, TPTB failed in showing me the desperate situation they intended. Personally, I don't see the "murder your fellow Losties or Walt is gone forever" conundrum.

I guess I don't see the "kill Ana or you'll never see Walt again" circumstance here and that's why I find the story less than stellar.



I don't remember where, but I heard that you need to look at the Hatch sort of like "Hell"or a mirror to yourself, in that, it made you what you weren't. It almost made you the opposite of what you were before you went in.
If you see it from that angle, I can believe Michael did what he did. Sort of like how Locke treated his friend Eko. Everyone seemed to act differently when they went in.
The Hatch took away something from you and made you someone else and in doing so, made Michael a killer.

I don't remember where, but I heard that you need to look at the Hatch sort of like "Hell"or a mirror to yourself, in that, it made you what you weren't. It almost made you the opposite of what you were before you went in.
If you see it from that angle, I can believe Michael did what he did. Sort of like how Locke treated his friend Eko. Everyone seemed to act differently when they went in.
The Hatch took away something from you and made you someone else and in doing so, made Michael a killer.

I can see that, and I would have two observations:

If that were so, they didn't make it explicit enough for the average viewer to understand, which would be a bad thing because in order to keep the show going strong they need to cater to the average viewer. That is, important plot developments need to be very, very clear.
That would take away from the whole moral dilemma angle TPTB have said they were shooting for. If Michael was changed by the hatch, then, there's no responsibility on his shoulders. It'd be something like "the hatch made me do it". It's like giving him an excuse, where would his responsibility be? why would he feel guilty? where would the angst come from? If the hatch is responsible, well, Mike is off the hook, and I don't think that was TPTB's intention at all.

Why do you think Michael is dead?
The last time we saw him he was leaving on a boat with Walt seeking rescue at the end of Season 2.

My bad. I guess I just wanted him to go away and stay away.

didn't Sun tell Juliet that it could only be Jin's? As in, he's the only one she's been with on the island? Let's think about this. Based on ethnicity, she's going to have a hard time not telling the truth when the baby is born. There is a BIG difference between Jin and Michael, so she'd be downright silly to think she could convince Jin the baby is his - if it isn't.

I guess the problem I have with Michael's story is that I can see other choices he had that didn't include murdering Ana. Libby was an accident.

For example, he could have told Jack and Sayid what the Others had proposed and I doubt Jack and Sayid would have said NO. I doubt Hurley, if asked, would have denied Michael his presence on that little expedition, neither would have Kate, Jack or Sawyer, for that matter.

If we are to be honest about this, TPTB have stated they wanted Michael to something shocking and horrible, they wanted him to murder two innocent people so that the audience would go into the discussions of the morality of his actions. But, I feel they didn't execute this plot that well. Michael had a choice and that choice could have equally saved Walt, I guess I don't see the "kill Ana or you'll never see Walt again" circumstance here and that's why I find the story less than stellar.

If that circumstance would have been clear, then I think we could have the moral discussions they wanted us to have. One side saying "You'd do anything to save your child" vs. "You shall not kill". It's the first part I'm not buying. Yes, a parent would do anything to save his child, but Michael was not trapped in a situation were murder was necessary to save Walt. As I said, he could have gotten Sayid and Jack's help. Or he could have asked Ana to leave and told her he'd take care of Ben. Or he could have gone into the armory with the gun, shot himself in the arm and give the gun to Ben, telling him to run and telling him that Ana was outside (Ben could have killed Ana then), when questioned, he could have said that he went in there to question Ben and Ben got the gun from him, shooting him in the arm.

So, you see, there are many things Michael could have done to save Walt where murdering Ana wasn't part of the deal. I guess, for me, TPTB failed in showing me the desperate situation they intended. Personally, I don't see the "murder your fellow Losties or Walt is gone forever" conundrum.

:clapping: CL, you summed up my feelings on this issue perfectly. This was not a gut-to-Walt's-head, do-or-die situation. There were other ways that you suggested here that Michael could have used to accomplish the still-nefarious goal of leading his friends into a trap.
Also, Klugh didn't actually threaten Walt's life. She only told Michael he would never see him again. Granted Walt was not well off there, but at least he was alive.
But the Michael/Juliet mobisode for me revealed a lot about Michael's character, when he asked to Juliet why she cared about saving her sister if she couldn't be with her. WTF??? That's an extremely self-centered kind of caring that contributed to the tragic results.

So, you see, there are many things Michael could have done to save Walt where murdering Ana wasn't part of the deal. I guess, for me, TPTB failed in showing me the desperate situation they intended. Personally, I don't see the "murder your fellow Losties or Walt is gone forever" conundrum.

:clapping: CL, you summed up my feelings on this issue perfectly. This was not a gut-to-Walt's-head, do-or-die situation. There were other ways that you suggested here that Michael could have used to accomplish the still-nefarious goal of leading his friends into a trap.
Also, Klugh didn't actually threaten Walt's life. She only told Michael he would never see him again. Granted Walt was not well off there, but at least he was alive.
But the Michael/Juliet mobisode for me revealed a lot about Michael's character, when he asked to Juliet why she cared about saving her sister if she couldn't be with her. WTF??? That's an extremely self-centered kind of caring that contributed to the tragic results.

Okay, I mostly agree with you guys. I've always said you can't kill innocent people to save the life of someone you love, even when it's your child. I'm sure I'd never do that. And you'd think there would have to be other choices. But just to play devil's advocate for a moment:

What if we don't know everything there is to know about how The Others got Michael to do their bidding? After "3 Minutes", I believed that it was that solely the conversation with Ms. Klugh that got Michael to participate. But in one of the mobisodes, we saw that Juliet had to go to Michael to convince him as well.

Now that I know there was a second phase in the plan to manipulate Michael, I'm leaving the door open to the possibility that there could be more. Perhaps he was given information about what The Others intended to do with Walt and it really did endanger Walt's life. Someone of it may have even qualified as torture. And perhaps they told him things about Ana Lucia and other Losties (like they told Locke things about Kate) that made them "not innocent" in Michael's eyes, helping him to justify his actions.

Perhaps, even, he was told something to convince him that Ben's life and Walt's life were more important than the lives of a few of the Losties. In other words, if The Others not only played on his natural love for his son, but also argued this action was for "the greater good" of a larger group, would that help to justify his actions (particularly if his actions do turn out to have been for "the greater good")?

There could be no such revelations, of course. I've just been thinking about this because someone bought me a Lost Philosophy book for Christmas, and there's an essay discussing Michael's actions and whether they are justified morally. It was quite interesting and made me soften towards Michael just slightly.

And I've also been watching S1 and S2 lately, and notice with sadness that Michael was good guy for the most part. He was a crappy dad, but he always seemed genuinely concerned with the other Losties. He had a fondness for Sun immediately, he bonded with Jack and Sayid, he refused to abandon Jin and Sawyer when they were captured by the Tailies, he looked genuinely horrified when Shannon was shot . . . etc.

And I realized that I would probably kill someone to save the life of my dog (not really, but I'd want to).

Hey sandiego, I agree that there might have been unseen aspects to Michael's story that might have played a part on his decisions, but my point wasn't to condone or reject his actions. My point was precisely that TPTB didn't give us those other aspects, they remained unseen, so it's kind of hard to have the sort of conversation they wanted us to have, know what I mean?

Based on the information given, Michael had other paths available to him that would have achieved the only tasks we knew the Others gave him, so, for me, there's not enough evidence to support the argument that Michael HAD to kill Ana in order to save his son. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with that argument, it just can't be made with the evidence we have been given. We could speculate that's how Michael felt, but it would just be speculation without conclusive evidence.

Hey sandiego, I agree that there might have been unseen aspects to Michael's story that might have played a part on his decisions, but my point wasn't to condone or reject his actions. My point was precisely that TPTB didn't give us those other aspects, they remained unseen, so it's kind of hard to have the sort of conversation they wanted us to have, know what I mean?

Based on the information given, Michael had other paths available to him that would have achieved the only tasks we knew the Others gave him, so, for me, there's not enough evidence to support the argument that Michael HAD to kill Ana in order to save his son. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with that argument, it just can't be made with the evidence we have been given. We could speculate that's how Michael felt, but it would just be speculation without conclusive evidence.

Agreed. Based upon what we were shown, he had other options like just being honest. I think you are right that everyone would have gone with him anyway. I'm being hopeful they will explain Michaels' actions further, since I know he's coming back, and what he did seemed so out of character for him when comparing it to everything we saw about him in S1 and early S2.

I didn't like it. Makes me lose some respect for Sun. She has already cheated on Jin and is ready to do it again. :(

This is a brilliant episode, and an important metaphor for the construction of the show. I love it!

"Buried Secrets" is the title, and it has many meanings. On the surface, we have Sun trying to bury her secret plan to leave Jin. One level below that, we have a "rewrite" which highlights a subtle subtext from Season 1 - the tension between Sun and Michael. They are rewriting history, but not in the way most people think.

The name on the driver's license (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Sun_driver_license.jpg) - Dahlia Choi - is important. Every name on Lost is important.

Choi is a common Korean family name, and its etymology is derived from three Chinese characters which mean "mountain", "person" and "soil" - the latter symbol being twinned to mean "land". The name means "someone who oversees the people, the land, and the mountain" - and it also means "high, superior, lofty or towering."

Dahlias are flowers. Sun's Opening Eye in HOTRS is accompanied by a flower. The Dahlia flower is a food plant for larvae of some Lepidoptera species - Lepidoptera includes Butterflies and Moths, two important symbols in the show.

Per the wiki: The name in Arabic stems from the word for grape vine and in Hebrew from word for [tip of a ] branch, especially that of a grapevine or an olive tree. There are several biblical and Talmudic references. However, confusion arose among Hebrew speakers due to the similarity to the name of the flower, named in honor of Anders Dahl, a Swedish botanist.

Black Dahlia was the name given to the murdered Elizabeth Short, a 1947 crime that was never solved.

Dahlia Gillespie is the name of a character from a video game called Silent Hill, which is also a movie. The character was a prophetess who talked in riddles and gave strange clues to advance the protagonist, Harry Mason.

"Was it not as I said? I see it all now. Yes everything! Hungry for sacrifice, the demons will swallow up the land! I knew this day would come! And what's more, the task is almost finished! There's only two left... to seal this town into the abyss, the Mark of Samael! When it is completed, all is lost! Even in the daytime, darkness will cover the Sun! The dead will walk and martyrs will burn in the fires of hell! Everyone will die!"
- Dahlia GillespieThe street on the license is important - Vista Lima. A "vista" is distant view or prospect, especially seen through some opening. It may also be a site offering such a view. Lima is the capital city of Peru, named "City of the Kings" by a Spanish conquistador as it was founded on January 6th, the date of the feast of the Epiphany (as well as the date of this post.) However, the native name Lima persisted, and the origin of this name is shrouded in mystery. Peru itself is home to Machu Pichu, "Lost City of the Incas."

The numbers on the license are the numbers of a driver's license used for an episode of the CBS series NUMB3RS titled "Sabotage." That episode features the investigation of a series of train accidents which are recreations of previous wrecks. The saboteur leaves notes comprised entirely of numbers. The episode itself refers to cryptography, specifically Kasiski examination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasiski_examination) (which involves finding "repeated strings") and the Beale ciphers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers), which allegedly refer to buried treasure.

Which brings us back to the title of the episode, Buried Secrets, in a neat little loop.

The episode itself functions as a meta-textual clue for "solving" Lost.

Hey sandiego, I agree that there might have been unseen aspects to Michael's story that might have played a part on his decisions, but my point wasn't to condone or reject his actions. My point was precisely that TPTB didn't give us those other aspects, they remained unseen, so it's kind of hard to have the sort of conversation they wanted us to have, know what I mean?

Based on the information given, Michael had other paths available to him that would have achieved the only tasks we knew the Others gave him, so, for me, there's not enough evidence to support the argument that Michael HAD to kill Ana in order to save his son. Regardless of whether I agree or disagree with that argument, it just can't be made with the evidence we have been given. We could speculate that's how Michael felt, but it would just be speculation without conclusive evidence.I don't really think asking them was an option since if any of them backed out or refused to go along (and it's as much guessing that they would all go along as it is to say he had options other than just killing AL ... both are speculation as we were not given anything to say they would have joined him definitely ... and Jack would have pulled out when he found out if not for the fact that the Others already knew they were on their way, and I take that as a kind of proof that he might not have gone along if asked) Michael would not have been able to achieve his mission. I think from what we were shown, he did what he thought was the best thing to ensure he could get them to go with him.

This is a brilliant episode, and an important metaphor for the construction of the show. I love it!

"Buried Secrets" is the title, and it has many meanings. On the surface, we have Sun trying to bury her secret plan to leave Jin. One level below that, we have a "rewrite" which highlights a subtle subtext from Season 1 - the tension between Sun and Michael. They are rewriting history, but not in the way most people think.

The name on the driver's license (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Sun_driver_license.jpg) - Dahlia Choi - is important. Every name on Lost is important.

Choi is a common Korean family name, and its etymology is derived from three Chinese characters which mean "mountain", "person" and "soil" - the latter symbol being twinned to mean "land". The name means "someone who oversees the people, the land, and the mountain" - and it also means "high, superior, lofty or towering."

Dahlias are flowers. Sun's Opening Eye in HOTRS is accompanied by a flower. The Dahlia flower is a food plant for larvae of some Lepidoptera species - Lepidoptera includes Butterflies and Moths, two important symbols in the show.

Per the wiki: The name in Arabic stems from the word for grape vine and in Hebrew from word for [tip of a ] branch, especially that of a grapevine or an olive tree. There are several biblical and Talmudic references. However, confusion arose among Hebrew speakers due to the similarity to the name of the flower, named in honor of Anders Dahl, a Swedish botanist.

Black Dahlia was the name given to the murdered Elizabeth Short, a 1947 crime that was never solved.

Dahlia Gillespie is the name of a character from a video game called Silent Hill, which is also a movie. The character was a prophetess who talked in riddles and gave strange clues to advance the protagonist, Harry Mason.

The street on the license is important - Vista Lima. A "vista" is distant view or prospect, especially seen through some opening. It may also be a site offering such a view. Lima is the capital city of Peru, named "City of the Kings" by a Spanish conquistador as it was founded on January 6th, the date of the feast of the Epiphany (as well as the date of this post.) However, the native name Lima persisted, and the origin of this name is shrouded in mystery. Peru itself is home to Machu Pichu, "Lost City of the Incas."

The numbers on the license are the numbers of a driver's license used for an episode of the CBS series NUMB3RS titled "Sabotage." That episode features the investigation of a series of train accidents which are recreations of previous wrecks. The saboteur leaves notes comprised entirely of numbers. The episode itself refers to cryptography, specifically Kasiski examination (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasiski_examination) (which involves finding "repeated strings") and the Beale ciphers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beale_ciphers), which allegedly refer to buried treasure.

Which brings us back to the title of the episode, Buried Secrets, in a neat little loop.

The episode itself functions as a meta-textual clue for "solving" Lost.Very good, JE! And as an added note, the 1946 Alan Ladd/Veronica Lake film noir "The Blue Dahlia" was the film from which the Black Dahlia was named. It was a take on that movie. I thought it interesting, too, in tying it in with the mobisode that when the lead character (Alan Ladd) comes back from the war he catches his wife kissing her new boyfriend (later she turns up dead and he's the prime suspect). Now I'm not saying it's a tie-in, but I found it interesting that both dealt with cheating wives and kissing boyfriends. (Not saying Sun was cheating w/ Michael, but you see the similarities.)

And as an added note, the 1946 Alan Ladd/Veronica Lake film noir "The Blue Dahlia" was the film from which the Black Dahlia was named. It was a take on that movie. I thought it interesting, too, in tying it in with the mobisode that when the lead character (Alan Ladd) comes back from the war he catches his wife kissing her new boyfriend (later she turns up dead and he's the prime suspect). Now I'm not saying it's a tie-in, but I found it interesting that both dealt with cheating wives and kissing boyfriends. (Not saying Sun was cheating w/ Michael, but you see the similarities.)

A wonderful observation, jbdean!