I do NOT think Vincent is SPECIAL. I think there might be a few "Dog Whisperers" around, namely Walt, but Vincent is just acting like a dog. He's a Yellow Lab. Not that they probably took his breed characteristics into consideration when writing him (her) in, but Labs are PEOPLE dogs. They are bred to hunt close and thus, seek out people. They are retrievers, bred to bring things to people for praise. So, he's not special, just a good ol' dog doing what he would naturally do.

Now answer me this. Let's just SAY I believe that Smokey can manifest itself into people. So, WHY would he choose to manifest itself into CHRISTIAN just so a dog can go wake up another person.

If it can manifest itself into things, I just don't see the point in it choosing to become Christian when it could just as easily manifested itself to ANYTHING for the point of waking up Jack.

I seriously don't think the writers are hinting that Smokey turned into Christian, but just that we are not done with Christian as a central character. Obviously, the Christian in this mobisode has prior knowledge of what has just occured. He couldn't wake up Jack himself because that would REALLY freak Jack out, but, considering he's supposed to be dead, I get the impression that he wants the world to continue thinking he's dead. Revealing himself to a passing dog isn't going to jeapordize that.

I think Christian was already on the island when the plane crashed. Now I don't know if he's part of Dharma, Hanso, or something entirely different, but I just think that he went to AUS, got propsitioned to come to the island much like Juliet did, and arrived. Knowing there was his empty casket on the plane, he probably just had natural curiosity when he looked up and saw a plane falling out of the sky. If Jack was unconscious, who's to say ol' Christian didn't already give him a once over. He walked away from his son, knowing that he would soon wake up and be okay. He saw Vincent and just made a comment before going back to his part of the island.

This is an easy explanation that the general public is going to easily believe. Writers don't put in quantum physics and complex chemistry for the general public on ABC. That sort of thing they save for the Discovery Channel. ;)

I was also wondering about a suitcase. And why was it open? Could be becouse of the crash, could be something else. I could be just speculating too.

I just thought it was something to take us back to the Pilot episode. I really didn't see any other significance to it.

I was also wondering about a suitcase. And why was it open? Could be becouse of the crash, could be something else. I could be just speculating too.

I'll bet that animal's had it away with the hairbrush! buried it somewhere no doubt.:nono: bad dog!

My sisters always maintained Vincent was a villain. :biggrin:

ok, but if christian was already on the island, why would he still have the same clothes on that he was going to be buried in? did he change shoes, but not his suit?

I think Christian was already on the island when the plane crashed. Now I don't know if he's part of Dharma, Hanso, or something entirely different, but I just think that he went to AUS, got propsitioned to come to the island much like Juliet did, and arrived.

Even though I believe TPTB that Christian's dead, I like your scenario.
Christian's quick appearance and disappearance on the beach seems to work against it, though.

Tramp...excellent write up.

I've gotta lean to #3 as thats the only thing in my mind that makes sense.

I mean, we see Vincent before the crash as Walts dog, and he continues to be Walts dog after the crash, so Vincent, really...is just a dog.

Christian, well, we saw him after the crash as some sort of apparation. Same with Yemi. And Bens Mom.

And maybe same with Dave. And in Boones weird hallucination of Shannon.

The question I would have regarding Smokie "being" these apparations, is that Smokie appears very violent at times, and it's been implied that it is a security system. We haven't seen Smokie "change" into anything...it's smokie...the gassy monster.

In all of the above "appearances" of people, they have come across as..well...helpful really.

Even in Yemi's case, he was there to "help" Eko by taking his confession. Eko though did not want it. Later he would be killed by the monster.

I think that the "apparations" are more linked to the whispers than to the monster.

After all...if Yemi = Monster...why didn't the monster just change it's form and kill Eko where he stood. Why would it walk away in Yemi form and then come back to kill Eko in smokie form?

If anything...I think this season is about the whispers.

You make a very convincing case; I'm changing the way I think about the apparitions. Do you think smokie's scanning is related at all to the apparitions, then?

CrazyLatin007, I disputed your "CS IS DEAD" rationale in the other thread. It was very thought provoking.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1730793#post1730793

I was particularly intrigued with your link to the script of the scene with AL and CS in the airport bar. He admits he's going to AUS to do something dangerous and that is why he needed a bodyguard. Seeing his daughter is not particularly dangerous. I think he was working on something else...

We know AL went to AUS, and we assume she went on CS's dime. However, we really don't know just what happened between them in AUS. That's a big gap that is yet to be filled.
100%
ok, but if christian was already on the island, why would he still have the same clothes on that he was going to be buried in? did he change shoes, but not his suit?

I can't remember where we saw what he was wearing in the casket. But, sure, he can have on the same clothes. In fact, someone else said that funeral directors don't often put shoes on a body.

So, let's consider that Christian was lying in his casket without shoes. Let's say he was in a deep coma-like sleep, much like Nikki/Paulo. Now, let's say that before the casket goes to the airport some OTHER person takes sleeping Christian and puts him on a submarine (sound familiar?). He wakes up in the clothes he's wearing and puts on a pair of shoes that has now been provided for him (bet they've got a Dharma logo on them!). He hears a plane crashing...

CrazyLatin007, I disputed your "CS IS DEAD" rationale in the other thread. It was very thought provoking.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1730793#post1730793

I was particularly intrigued with your link to the script of the scene with AL and CS in the airport bar. He admits he's going to AUS to do something dangerous and that is why he needed a bodyguard. Seeing his daughter is not particularly dangerous. I think he was working on something else...

We know AL went to AUS, and we assume she went on CS's dime. However, we really don't know just what happened between them in AUS. That's a big gap that is yet to be filled.

Thanks for calling it thought provoking! I'm flattered. I replied there. Sorry if it's not a huge reply, it's just we've been debating this for a veeeeeeery long time :biggrin: .

RE: Ana Lulu, I think there are two possibilities; 1) CS was indeed going to do something dangerous and needed protection, and 2) He picked up on Ana's motivations and said the one thing that he knew would bring her to the trip.

Ana even questions Christian about this very topic. She tells him they have done nothing but go to bars every night and that he is just getting hammered all over Sidney. If CS had been doing some super dangerous secret work, why is he just indulging in his drinking vice and putting himself in a very weak position against any enemy?

If we take the on-screen evidence, the only thing Christian wanted to do by going to Australia was finding Claire and wallow in self pity.

Well, Christian has a habit of meeting Flight 815 inhabitants in bars. Maybe he wasn't getting as drunk as we/AL thought he was. Maybe he was doing a little re-con work, and he had AL along in case he ran into someone who might guess what he was doing.

Yeah, I know the whole CS is/isn't dead topic has gone on and on, but with the latest news, a resurrgence can't be helped, I'm afraid.

I think that CS is dead but that this manifestation had to be in the form of CS and no other.

1. Jacob likes to reanimate dead bodies, and this one is the first he found in the vicinity of the crash.

2. The spirits of the dead walk on Craphole Island, so it is CS, just not a "100% dead" CS.

Cardie

I think that CS is dead but that this manifestation had to be in the form of CS and no other.

1. Jacob likes to reanimate dead bodies, and this one is the first he found in the vicinity of the crash.

2. The spirits of the dead walk on Craphole Island, so it is CS, just not a "100% dead" CS.

Cardie

So are you saying it's actually CS's body and not just a Smokey creation? Cause that is like waaaaaay creepier to me. Yuck.

ETA: That would work for Yemi's body and the other bodies from the Nigerian plane too, but what about the little alter boy from Eko's past? Can Smokey reanimate bodies AND create visions (like, Dave)? Can Smokey reanimate a body that is BURIED on the island? Man, I sure hope not.....

I'm theorizing that Smokey can assume the shapes of people he scans from memories, but that Jacob needs real bodies to inhabit. But I'm leaning more to the idea that there are ghosts on the island--Jacob among them--which are completely different from Smokey manifestations.

I can't explain further without getting into some recent spoilers.

Cardie

So are you saying it's actually CS's body and not just a Smokey creation? Cause that is like waaaaaay creepier to me. Yuck.

ETA: That would work for Yemi's body and the other bodies from the Nigerian plane too, but what about the little alter boy from Eko's past? Can Smokey reanimate bodies AND create visions (like, Dave)? Can Smokey reanimate a body that is BURIED on the island? Man, I sure hope not.....

It seems to me that when Smokey is using an actual body, it is able to create better personaifications that last longer. So, the little boy and all the other people Eko saw only lasted a few minutes. For this to work, Dave had to be all Hurley, no smokey.

2. The spirits of the dead walk on Craphole Island, so it is CS, just not a "100% dead" CS.

I prefer an undead Christian who will be ready to move into the light when Jack's mission is over


...in light of recent major spoilerage, I suppose it really could have something to do with the rest of his family


as a manifestation of the Island, of one of the forces at work there.

I don't want him brought back from the dead because as the writers themselves have said numerous times, it cheapens the story and the tragedy of all those daddy issues.

Well, Christian has a habit of meeting Flight 815 inhabitants in bars. Maybe he wasn't getting as drunk as we/AL thought he was. Maybe he was doing a little re-con work, and he had AL along in case he ran into someone who might guess what he was doing.

I'm not even sure I want a conspiracy-type story with him, but at this point an Australia flashack for Christian (if he really went there to do anything more than take one more shot at redemption with the offspring he didn't get a chance to screw up) would come in handy to sort out the circumstances of his death. TFTR was from Ana's point of view, maybe we'll get Christian's Australia time the same way they revisited flashbacks from dual points of view before (Sun and Jin for example).

One of my dear fandom friends came up with a theory I really like about Christian, should they decide to actually involve him with the Island's history on a more... physical, non-paranormal plane. Christian's been hitting the bottle for a long time, we saw him drink and tout his own greatness at dealing with failure eversince Jack was a child. What if his failure is Island-related, or rather Dharma-related and he self-destructed out of guilt and inability to to cope with his own "destiny", the same way Jack is doing in TTLG?

I rewatched the first mobisode in light of this one. I'm never the one to complain when John Terry's on screen and I liked it just fine the first time around, but Christian as the White Rabbit and his own daddy issues with grandpa Shephard is even more intriguing now.

Ana even questions Christian about this very topic. She tells him they have done nothing but go to bars every night and that he is just getting hammered all over Sidney. If CS had been doing some super dangerous secret work, why is he just indulging in his drinking vice and putting himself in a very weak position against any enemy?

Actually she says "after 4 days of drinking and doing nothing, now in the middle of the night, you're ready to go?"

I've always pictured him staying in his room and the hotel bar (the 'incident').
He spent that time maybe trying to find out where Claire was (altho he sent money for the mortgage, that doesn't mean he paid it directly and knew where the house was), or maybe making plans, or meeting people, or waiting for the right moment, or - my favorite - trying to get up the courage to go see Claire.

He gets some courage from a bottle, tries and fails to complete his task, and that failure sends him to The Last Call.

My theory:

Sawyer has a very weird scene in the episode where he meets CS. He uses a piglet to try to draw in the daddy boar. He says "Now we know daddy's got to be around here. Here piggy, piggy, piggy."
(when the episode aired, of course, we didn't know that CS was Claire's dad.)

Christian somehow knew his attempt to contact Claire would lead to his death.

His killer(s) didn't deliberately use Claire as bait, but they kept an eye on her, knowing that CS might eventually come to see her, and if so, they were set to kill him. As long as he stayed in the US, they didn't have any worries about him, but there's something about his connection to Claire that threatened them.

So Christian knew he'd likely die, but his life was such a wreck that he had nothing left to lose. He *was* wallowing in self-pity, he *was* there to see Claire, and he *was* in danger, as he said. But there's a "missing piece" to the story..

Help me with this one... was Claire pregnant when CS sought her out? She must have been. So, here's a man looking for his daughter. Nothing really THAT dangerous about that. However, if we have a man looking for his pregnant daughter to prevent her from going to an island full of baby-snatchers... well, that could be dangerous.

I don't think courage had anything to do with him seeking Claire. If he had any sort of Dharma genes, and Claire's baby was his grandson, well, then I'm SURE the baby-snatchers would want in on the deal!

Now... THIS could be a reason for me to believe that Christian was killed... BUT I'd rather think that he was abducted/returned to the island. If someone wanted to kill Christian, they could have done it ANY time. Shoot, it was a matter of hours before Juliet's obstacle husband just HAPPENED to walk in front of a bus!

IMO...
I think it is possible that "Jacob" is the one manifesting himself rather than Smokie. I think he took the lifeless shell of a body left behind as Christian Sheppard, and made it his "vessel" for the time being.

One of my dear fandom friends came up with a theory I really like about Christian, should they decide to actually involve him with the Island's history on a more... physical, non-paranormal plane. Christian's been hitting the bottle for a long time, we saw him drink and tout his own greatness at dealing with failure eversince Jack was a child. What if his failure is Island-related, or rather Dharma-related and he self-destructed out of guilt and inability to to cope with his own "destiny", the same way Jack is doing in TTLG?

I rewatched the first mobisode in light of this one. I'm never the one to complain when John Terry's on screen and I liked it just fine the first time around, but Christian as the White Rabbit and his own daddy issues with grandpa Shephard is even more intriguing now.

Claudia, I agree, Christian's always had a haunted-by-his-past persona. I'm sure it's been speculated in the past that Jacob is Christian's dad. The first and last mobisodes (interesting juxtaposition) provide support for that theory, imo.

One of my dear fandom friends came up with a theory I really like about Christian, should they decide to actually involve him with the Island's history on a more... physical, non-paranormal plane. Christian's been hitting the bottle for a long time, we saw him drink and tout his own greatness at dealing with failure eversince Jack was a child. What if his failure is Island-related, or rather Dharma-related and he self-destructed out of guilt and inability to to cope with his own "destiny", the same way Jack is doing in TTLG?

I rewatched the first mobisode in light of this one. I'm never the one to complain when John Terry's on screen and I liked it just fine the first time around, but Christian as the White Rabbit and his own daddy issues with grandpa Shephard is even more intriguing now.

That is an absolutely brilliant idea Claudia, I can so see TPTB throwing that type of twist in there. "Christian failed, now its his sons turn...."

IMO...
I think it is possible that "Jacob" is the one manifesting himself rather than Smokie. I think he took the lifeless shell of a body left behind as Christian Sheppard, and made it his "vessel" for the time being. Welcome to the discussion, koskov.
In this mobisode, Christian seems to be himself, he's got that special Christian-essence.
Like I just said, though, I'm leaning strongly toward a Jacob-Christian connection.

So Jacob Shephard entrusted his son Christian with the tribe, but Christian was seduced by the modern world and left the island, and now it's Jack's job to make everything right?

4 generations of Shephards would be on the island at the smae time now. If they are as powerful as Jacob, well....

Originally Posted by MtnGrlbytheBay http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1729781#post1729781)
I can't resist... maybe Christian has a twin.

:smile: I made that birthday wish 3 years ago...

One Christian is dead, and the Other Christian is not dead. Mirror-matter twins.

Christian is dead.
Christian is alive.
Both statements are true, particularly in a quantum universe.

4 generations of Shephards would be on the island at the smae time now. If they are as powerful as Jacob, well....

Yeah, I just went kinda crazy over in The Watch mobisode thread...

I'm theorizing that Smokey can assume the shapes of people he scans from memories, but that Jacob needs real bodies to inhabit. But I'm leaning more to the idea that there are ghosts on the island--Jacob among them--which are completely different from Smokey manifestations.

I can't explain further without getting into some recent spoilers.

Cardie

Ah, ok, interesting. I'll just have to wait, watch and see.... ;) But very interesting.

I'm thinking these apparitions of loved ones aren't black cloud smokie too. When Ben first saw his mother outside his window, that was on the inside of the fence where Smokie can't go. Unless the fence wasn't on, but when Ben ran towards the fence she really didn't want him to go through it. And then there was that scary face in the bushes that may or may not have been there....

I think that CS is dead but that this manifestation had to be in the form of CS and no other.

1. Jacob likes to reanimate dead bodies, and this one is the first he found in the vicinity of the crash.

2. The spirits of the dead walk on Craphole Island, so it is CS, just not a "100% dead" CS.

CardieCardie - Wait a second...are you saying that the spirit of CS (as an example) is still on the Island, but is disconnected from his body enough for Jacob to use it as a vessel to accomplish his "work"?

Another question: In terms of the idea that spirits of the dead walk on Craphole Island, does it matter if they died on the Island (Charlie, Shannon, Boone, Libby, A-L, etc.) or if they died off of the Island, but their body somehow got to the Island (CS)?

Is it possible that when Jacob takes on the dead bodies that he finds, he takes on their memories, etc., but is still aware of what he wants to do? Jacob-as-CS in the mobisode calling Jack "my son" could have just been a little irony on Jacob's part, perhaps?

What is the work that we've heard CS and Yemi talk about? Getting bodies for the Whisperers or something bigger than that?

My theory:

Sawyer has a very weird scene in the episode where he meets CS. He uses a piglet to try to draw in the daddy boar. He says "Now we know daddy's got to be around here. Here piggy, piggy, piggy."
(when the episode aired, of course, we didn't know that CS was Claire's dad.)

Christian somehow knew his attempt to contact Claire would lead to his death.

His killer(s) didn't deliberately use Claire as bait, but they kept an eye on her, knowing that CS might eventually come to see her, and if so, they were set to kill him. As long as he stayed in the US, they didn't have any worries about him, but there's something about his connection to Claire that threatened them.

So Christian knew he'd likely die, but his life was such a wreck that he had nothing left to lose. He *was* wallowing in self-pity, he *was* there to see Claire, and he *was* in danger, as he said. But there's a "missing piece" to the story..Lostmio - I love this theory and think that it's a great one...and very possible...I love the Pigs and the Shepherds analogy...

IMO...
I think it is possible that "Jacob" is the one manifesting himself rather than Smokie. I think he took the lifeless shell of a body left behind as Christian Sheppard, and made it his "vessel" for the time being.I agree, koskov. If the Whisperers are spirits of dead people that died on the Island, then CS' body didn't have a spirt that Jacob had to deal with to use his body...something...

Claudia, I agree, Christian's always had a haunted-by-his-past persona. I'm sure it's been speculated in the past that Jacob is Christian's dad. The first and last mobisodes (interesting juxtaposition) provide support for that theory, imo.Yes, I agree with this, too, lostmio - about CS' haunted persona. I've always wondered if he was ever connected to the DI. I think that he was...

However...I've never heard the idea that Jacob is CS' dad! That blows my mind!!!

So Jacob Shephard entrusted his son Christian with the tribe, but Christian was seduced by the modern world and left the island, and now it's Jack's job to make everything right?

4 generations of Shephards would be on the island at the smae time now. If they are as powerful as Jacob, well....CL - This Jacob = CS' father theory blows my mind! I have never heard about it before...for all of the time that I'm on this board, I usually see all of the theories...

Not my theory, junnie, I just ran with it....

It's an interesting one...if it's true, I wonder what role Jacob's List plays into everything?

More and more, though, I'm thinking that Jacob's List is something that Ben made up to keep the Others in his control...

It's an interesting one...if it's true, I wonder what role Jacob's List plays into everything?

More and more, though, I'm thinking that Jacob's List is something that Ben made up to keep the Others in his control...

Ohmygosh, I keep forgetting about that list..

Assuming it's real: if Jacob's Jack's grandpa, then Jack wouldn't likely be a list of non-family members...
Who the heck WAS on that list, anyway?
Was Mikhail truthful about Sayid, Locke, and Kate not being on it? I think so, but I bet he was lying about WHY they're not on it.
Why did Tom specifically complain about Jack not being on it, when they were also holding Kate & Sawyer, if Kate wasn't on it?
Does this tie into the blood tests? Maybe Jacob's expecting or waiting for people in his family line or some other line.
So maybe it's a list of people, to test against Jack's blood, because Jacob KNOWS Jack is related to him.
Remember those jars of liquid in his cabin? Blood.

Also - Ben, being Ben, may have manipulated the original list somewhat..

I think the list was a Ben manipulation. It's a lie, there were never any lists.

Cardie - Wait a second...are you saying that the spirit of CS (as an example) is still on the Island, but is disconnected from his body enough for Jacob to use it as a vessel to accomplish his "work"?



No, the point is that Christian's spirit is gone, because he died off the island, but people who die on the island remain there as disembodied spirits, probably the Whisperers. Jacob is probably the oldest of these spirits. I don't think they are all looking for bodies, necessarily, but Jacob's spirit is clearly trapped by Ben. Perhaps Jacob desperately needs the 815ers to do some specific mission, and he grabbed Christian's body so he could communicate. It could have been at that point, or whenever Ben found out he was doing it, that Ben trapped the Jacob spirit.

I do like the idea that Jacob is Christian's father. Would explain why CS named his kid Jack.

Cardie

Yes, I agree with this, too, lostmio - about CS' haunted persona. I've always wondered if he was ever connected to the DI. I think that he was...

However...I've never heard the idea that Jacob is CS' dad! That blows my mind!!!

CL - This Jacob = CS' father theory blows my mind! I have never heard about it before...for all of the time that I'm on this board, I usually see all of the theories...


I was thinking about this kind of thing as well-- but not for Jack. I always figured that John Locke was somehow directly tied to the Island via his dad, or something along those lines.

I'm always reminded that Jack, originally, was a throw away character. He wasn't supposed to last through the pilot ( nowadays we know he lives on for quite a while, so I realize that stories do change), so I wonder about him being anchored to the island so directly ( Granpop, Dad, Son) early in the series creation. Not to mention that to reveal a "Secret Island Lineage" could come off a bit forced at this later stage in the show.

Now John of the other hand....has always been "Special".

Well, there's also that MAJOR SPOILER to take into account . . .

. . . that we see Christian Shephard sat in Jacob's cabin.



Starrox >
Wasn't that the slogan for the second season? I seem to remember it had something to do with the tailies whose existence we didn't yet know of at that point?




CrazyLatin007 >
Could be, I really don't remember, but I know it was the slogan for a season and the Find Yourself was on a poster.


Yeah, the S2 slogan was "They're not the survivors they thought they were.", but there was a S3 Promo with a Ben talkover :"On the other side of the Island they finally get the chance to discover who they really are. What could be more terrifying than that?".

I've got them memorised because they're part of my Theory that the Losties literally aren't who they think they are.

I like that idea that Jacob's List could be the list of people that Jacob wants to find out if they're related to him...he's so omnipotent, though...how come he doesn't know...this ties in the weirdness of the family issues on the show, though, doesn't it???

I've been catching up on the mobisodes tonight- can't find this one on ABC.com. Is it just not on there yet?

I've been catching up on the mobisodes tonight- can't find this one on ABC.com. Is it just not on there yet?

Not until Monday.

Cardie

The file is already there, but there's no link on the page yet - check this post by chf (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1729438&postcount=14)! :innocent:

The file is already there, but there's no link on the page yet - check this post by chf (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1729438&postcount=14)! :innocent:

Ah! Thanks, Starrox. :D

Well, there's also that MAJOR SPOILER to take into account . . .

. . . that we see Christian Shephard sat in Jacob's cabin.





Yeah, the S2 slogan was "They're not the survivors they thought they were.", but there was a S3 Promo with a Ben talkover :"On the other side of the Island they finally get the chance to discover who they really are. What could be more terrifying than that?".

I've got them memorised because they're part of my Theory that the Losties literally aren't who they think they are.

Must ... resist ... reading spoiler.

I'm always reminded that Jack, originally, was a throw away character. He wasn't supposed to last through the pilot ( nowadays we know he lives on for quite a while, so I realize that stories do change), so I wonder about him being anchored to the island so directly ( Granpop, Dad, Son) early in the series creation. Not to mention that to reveal a "Secret Island Lineage" could come off a bit forced at this later stage in the show.

Now John of the other hand....has always been "Special".

How do you know he's always been special?
Locke's paralysis wasn't planned or even conceived until after the pilot aired.
Sun didn't originally exist at all (at least not as a Korean or Asian; beyond that, we're not sure), Sawyer was a yankee, and Charlie was a middle-aged has been. The writers have worked the characters and actors - the ones they ended up with - into the story line. I love them for that.
Locke had some kind of loser background, maybe they planned to have a Caucasian or European female become pregnant on the island; many details didn't matter at the beginning.

Point is: that Jack wasn't in the original long story arc doesn't rule out anything. Kate, or some unhatched and abandoned character, could have been the original family line connection with Jacob - or David or Rebekah, or some other name that might have been intended for the mythological island p/matriarch..

edit to add: I've always thought that Kate was the original "Jack", and that when ABC/Disney said not to kill off the doctor-hero, the writers decided to basically split "Jack/Kate" into the two long-term characters.
For the longest, I thought that was a pity; I'd love to have seen a heroine/matriarchal line. But the Shepards, godlove'em, won me over. I'm sure the Lost creative staff would agree that Lost was blessed by that little hiccup..
Also, that's why I think Jack and Kate are Luke and Leia, but that's a whole 'nother issue.

On ABC:
Matthew Fox as Jack
John Terry as Christian Shephard
Music by: Michael Giacchino
Costume Designer: Roland Sanchez
Edited by: Robert Florio, A.C.E.
Production Designer: Jonathan A. Carlson
Director of Photography: John Bartley, A.S.C./C.S.C.
Executive Producers: J.J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof, Bryan Burk, Jack Bender, Carlton Cuse
Co-Executive Producers: Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz, Drew Goddard, Stephen Williams, Jean Higgins
Supervising Producer: Elizabeth Sarnoff
Producers: Ra'uf Glasgow, Pat Churchill
Co-Producers: Richard Peter Schroer, Brian K. Vaughn, Samantha Thomas
Executive Story Editor: Christina M. Kim
Associate Producer: Kaleen Yamase
Written by Drew Goddard
Directed by Jack Bender


http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=missingpiecescredits#t=0&d=78371
100%
You should really watch it before reading the transcripts:

[We see the jungle and hear someone running. The view is low to the ground. We hear panting. It’s Vincent. He passes open suitcases and sniffs them. He hears a whistle. We see legs. It’s Christian. Vincent runs up to him. Christian talks to Vincent.]

Christian: Hey there. Come on. Come on. Come on. Good boy. Come on. Come here. Come here. Good boy. Yes. [He leans down and pets him.] I need you to go find my son. He’s over there in that bamboo forest, unconscious. I need you to go wake him up. Ok. Go on.

[Vincent whines and runs off.]

Christian: He has work to do.

[We see Jack’s eye open just like the beginning of the pilot. Jack wakes up slowly, looks around, sees Vincent come through the jungle. Vincent whines, runs by him, and runs off. LOST black screen.]
From Dark UFO




why cant i see this mobisode??? grrr

Point is: that Jack wasn't in the original long story arc doesn't rule out anything. Kate, or some unhatched and abandoned character, could have been the original family line connection with Jacob - or David or Rebekah, or some other name that might have been intended for the mythological island p/matriarch..

edit to add: I've always thought that Kate was the original "Jack", and that when ABC/Disney said not to kill off the doctor-hero, the writers decided to basically split "Jack/Kate" into two characters. For the longest, I thought that was a pity; I'd love to have seen a heroine/matriarchal line. But the Shepards, godlove'em, won me over. I'm sure the Lost creative staff would agree that Lost was blessed by that little hiccup..

Yeah your right, Jack was suppose to die in the pilot episode at the exact part that the pilot dies. TPTB wanted to shock the world by killing off the main character in the first episode, in which Jack was suppose to be played by Michael Keaton. And yes Kate was suppose to be the "jack figure", but Keaton bailed, Fox read for it, they loved him, and numerous awards later...here we are.

why cant i see this mobisode??? grrr

Oh, I hope you can find it, it's 1000% better than the transcript.
Do you use Firefox? I've known folks to say they couldn't access some videos via IE.

so Maybe what we have here is.......... a "born again Christian"???? lol ;)

The video has only been released on the vcast phones, ABC will put them up eventually. We can't put up links to the sites that have bootlegged them.

This mobisode may put a new light on things, but in a recent intervew with EW magazine, Foxy said he had asked Damon about that line in TTLG where Jack says to go upstairs and get his father. Damon explained that someone as drugged out as Jack could get confused and think a dead relative was still alive, and that he'd seen/heard about it happening. I think for Jack in that state it could fit well - getting disoriented about the before & after.
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Well, the Vincentcam was just rambling around and he heard Christian whistle for him.

I don't know the rules for ghosts and their corporeal manifestations. Does anyone have the manual? :biggrin:

https://www.prairieghosts.com/ghh.html There ya go wm!

Ok, that may sound stupid but, we see something in the form of Christian say to Vincent "go wake my son, he has work to do". How is Vincent suposed to understand what he is being told? How does Vincent know who is Christian's son? I mean, he IS a dog isn't he? If I tell a random passing dog to "go find my niece, it is time to shower and have dinner", he will look at me as if I was crazy. :ohwell:

I'm sure the island is translating Christian's words into canine. ;)

Cardie

OMG, Annie and Cardie, you almost made me waste my keyboard!

And then Vincent could answer: "Now, why don't you go find your own son. Move your feet, men. And who's your son, anyways... woof. "

You know, that dialog was kinda stupid. He says to Vincent, "Go find my son..." but then he tells Vincent exactly where he is... "... in the bamboo." He should have just said, "go wake up my son." Maybe this was the last line written before the writer's strike.

Also the having "work to do", is also what Walt said to Locke, suggesting it might be from the same source.

I was reminded of the same thing. I also thought of the time iteration thing that we were discussing a year ago, when we were trying to figure out how many times Desmond had been in the island's "time loop." So, is this the original crash, or one that has been altered and occurred again?

Yeah, it's messing with my mind too, what's left of it.

I was pleased to finally see a Vincent-cam!

How do you know he's [Locke] always been special?


Honestly... I don't. But it's the impression many people had right from the start. Even in the pilot, he was the "different one" (not as different as Walt, buutt...).... Well, that's the impression I got, any way. (I didn't mean "always" as in "before the island" I meant, since the first episode.)


Locke's paralysis wasn't planned or even conceived until after the pilot aired.
Sun didn't originally exist at all (at least not as a Korean or Asian; beyond that, we're not sure), Sawyer was a yankee, and Charlie was a middle-aged has been. The writers have worked the characters and actors - the ones they ended up with - into the story line. I love them for that.
Locke had some kind of loser background, maybe they planned to have a Caucasian or European female become pregnant on the island; many details didn't matter at the beginning.
I love it too...I believe it's why the characters ring as true, because the actors feel comfortable in this second skin. But I'm not even talking about John's paralysis...I meant his charecter's overall arc. I think that his arc has always been one of the few that the writers had seen the "story signposts" up ahead.
I know my lost lore enough to know that the staff often shifts gears and ideas don't always end up as originally planned.


Point is: that Jack wasn't in the original long story arc doesn't rule out anything. Kate, or some unhatched and abandoned character, could have been the original family line connection with Jacob - or David or Rebekah, or some other name that might have been intended for the mythological island p/matriarch..
And I totally agree....
I just think that that particular story focus would be putting a lot more on Jack, a guy who has a lot on his plate already, when the hope from me is that it would actually be neither of them. Perhaps another, less developed, less "island anchored" character.


edit to add: I've always thought that Kate was the original "Jack", and that when ABC/Disney said not to kill off the doctor-hero, the writers decided to basically split "Jack/Kate" into the two long-term characters.Very interesting analysis... I can easily see that.

Yeah your right, Jack was suppose to die in the pilot episode at the exact part that the pilot dies. TPTB wanted to shock the world by killing off the main character in the first episode, in which Jack was suppose to be played by Michael Keaton. And yes Kate was suppose to be the "jack figure", but Keaton bailed, Fox read for it, they loved him, and numerous awards later...here we are.

And let me tell ya, as much as I love Jack, and I really do,... part of me really wishes they had. (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=4553)
What a different feel this show would have.

I think the list was a Ben manipulation. It's a lie, there were never any lists.I totally agree, CL...but I wonder why Ben didn't put most of the Losties on Jacob's List? Well, I suppose that's an easy question, really. He didn't want to bring any kind of credibility or specialness to the people that stood in his way, etc...

No, the point is that Christian's spirit is gone, because he died off the island, but people who die on the island remain there as disembodied spirits, probably the Whisperers. Jacob is probably the oldest of these spirits. I don't think they are all looking for bodies, necessarily, but Jacob's spirit is clearly trapped by Ben. Perhaps Jacob desperately needs the 815ers to do some specific mission, and he grabbed Christian's body so he could communicate. It could have been at that point, or whenever Ben found out he was doing it, that Ben trapped the Jacob spirit.

I do like the idea that Jacob is Christian's father. Would explain why CS named his kid Jack.

CardieYes, it seems pretty likely that the Whisperers represent people that have died on the Island versus someone like Christian who "only" had their dead body brought there accidentally. This seems especially possible when we remember that we've heard, I think, Boone's voice in some of the Whispers. Also, it ties in nicely with the idea that Jacob can only get a physical presence by taking over a dead body. Otherwise, he's trapped, however, I would like to know when he became trapped in the cabin. I think that before Ben stuck him there, he was able to battle Ben, so to speak. Now, he needs to find the people on the Island, like Locke, that are willing to help him. That said, what is so important to Jacob that he needs everyone on the Island to help him? What's this "work" that we keep hearing about???

Have fun tonight everyone...

just a question, if it wasn't CS then why did he say my son, wouldn't he have said Jack, also don't forget about the healing powers of the island if they cured Locke's legs and reses cancer why couldn't it fix a heart attack.

Because the man had been dead for two days already?

I repeat everyone's sentiments, but they are true - that was completely mind-blowing!! Not only was it the best and most intriguing of the missing pieces, but it was one of the most crazy, OMG moments the world of Lost has ever produced. I can't see any logical reason for it not being Smokey, and yet, when has Smokey ever made such connects to people as saying "My son?" When Eko talked to Smokey/Yemi, Smokey/Yemi asked why Eko talked to him like the person he was projecting. Those of you who've mentioned Jacob as a possiblity are probably more on the mark.

I'm pretty mad they didn't get this up on the website before the season premire! I wanna know!

I think Starrox posted a link to the ABC website a few pages ago? It was on their server, but not on their front page, or something like that

I am going with the idea that the white shoes were all that CS could find in the lugage that we see scattered around at the start of the clip. I have been stuck in situations like that when the wrong bag gets lost by the airlines. Now I mak sure to keep my outfits and matching shoes together.

What would he have been dressed in in a casket? Might they have dressed him in a suit sans shoes since no one would see those any way?

I don't know if this had been posted already because it's like page 32 but on the tennis shoes comment I straight away thought of the pilot episode and this:-

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-22.html

Jack saw those hanging "after" Christian told Vincent to wake him up, they can't be the same ones, since he was wearing them already.

Unless theres a time loop going on.

or, maybe someone packed two sets of bone white sneakers.

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Isn't it possible that Jack in a semi conscious state following the crash hears a dog and then dreams that his father is addressing the dog and it is his subconscious telling him he needs to wake up becaue he has "important things to do" i.e. save lives?

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Isn't it possible that Jack in a semi conscious state following the crash hears a dog and then dreams that his father is addressing the dog and it is his subconscious telling him he needs to wake up becaue he has "important things to do" i.e. save lives?

In the Lost Universe? Nah! ;)

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Isn't it possible that Jack in a semi conscious state following the crash hears a dog and then dreams that his father is addressing the dog and it is his subconscious telling him he needs to wake up becaue he has "important things to do" i.e. save lives?

My friend...this is Lost....it's never simple.

I think everyone is reading too much into this. Isn't it possible that Jack in a semi conscious state following the crash hears a dog and then dreams that his father is addressing the dog and it is his subconscious telling him he needs to wake up becaue he has "important things to do" i.e. save lives?

Where's the fun in that theory?? ;)

Okay, with the risk of making the same point someone else already made (Not exactly about to go through every page and find out), here's the thing.

When we see Jack's dad on the Island in 1x05;
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-226.html

Clearly wearing white shoes. So I'm pretty sure the shoes in the tree are probably not his.

I would love it if Christian were alive. Quick observation: Christian's was not in his casket just like Yemi was not in the plane. Do we know for sure that Jack's father really is not dead. Please if he were really alive this would be the most mind blowing scene on lost next to Locke's father pushing out of the window causing his paralysis.....

You gotta love it!!!!

Ummm...honeymfw, you need to edit your post since it posted the same thing three times. It was kinda like watching Groundhog Day or something. ;)

I think Christian is dead, and it was his ghost that told Vincent to wake up Jack. I know it's a boring theory; I'd rather have Christian be alive, and on the island, but I think he's dead.

I've read the board for the long time, but I wanted to register to post after watching the "Missing Pieces."

Maybe it's my literature/english background, but to me it appears Vincent didn't find what he was looking for in Jack... perhaps Christian has another son?

In the mobisode, 'The Watch', Christian is wearing a watch with a black armband. In the final mobisode, he doesn't appear to be wearing a watch. Possibly a clue that this is not really Christian, or maybe he just has trouble dressing himself (suit with white sneakers...). On a side note, Jack appears to be wearing his grandad's watch when he pulls himself off the ground in the pilot episode (footage cuts out just before this happens in mobisode 13).

Agree with all, totally stunning. I had a level of suspense watching it that I would only associate with the actual show, not a mobisode! Don't know yet how to react, but wanted to comment on this:

Yeah, I definitely thought this as well. Smokey took Yemi's form after scanning Eko. Do we know if it scanned Kate before she saw her horse? We can definitely assume it scanned Ben or his father before becoming Ben's mother. Wasn't there a long ago theory that Smokey scanned them during the crash?

Well, if Christian is dead Smokey/Cer couldn't have scanned him. Unless Smokey scanned all the unconscience people BEFORE they woke up to notice him. But I don't think you can be unconscience for the electric... oh, could be a spoiler.. won't post.
ANYWAY
How about another theory on Christian. Christian is a heavey drinker, traveled often, what if he is with Dharma and stagged his death? What if Christian was trying to get back to the Island and sabotaged the plane? Remember, the coffin was empty....should have been a body. Smokey take it?
100%
In the mobisode, 'The Watch', Christian is wearing a watch with a black armband. In the final mobisode, he doesn't appear to be wearing a watch. Possibly a clue that this is not really Christian, or maybe he just has trouble dressing himself (suit with white sneakers...). On a side note, Jack appears to be wearing his grandad's watch when he pulls himself off the ground in the pilot episode (footage cuts out just before this happens in mobisode 13).

I too noticed the suit with white sneakers! Good catch, but I didn't know if people in coffins wore shoes? If they did my quess is Christian would have worn fancy shoes, too nice for a jungle and would have to change them. That is ONE reason why I thought Jack really did see his father.
THE WATCH: I missed that! Did he have it on in the coffin when Jack viewed his body? Remember (oh what is the pilotes name?) the Pilot of the Oceanic 815 was suppose to be wearing a ring and it wasn't there?

ooh, I loved it!

So if one of the theories I've read on here somewhere is correct, then Christian's body went back to 1996 on the island?!?! What he crawled out of the casket?? :confused:

I just learned about the Missing Pieces the other day, so I sat and watched them all for the first time, all I can say is WOW!


Very Interesting and very unique point of view, through Vincent's eyes...Great!! :biggrin:

ooh, I loved it!

So if one of the theories I've read on here somewhere is correct, then Christian's body went back to 1996 on the island?!?! What he crawled out of the casket?? :confused:

I just learned about the Missing Pieces the other day, so I sat and watched them all for the first time, all I can say is WOW!


Very Interesting and very unique point of view, through Vincent's eyes...Great!! :biggrin:

I'm not sure Christian's body went back in time, I believe he staged his death. My very WEIRD theory is that Christian has been on the Island before and was trying to get back. Remember the plane was off course, it is believed the plane was sabatoged. Could Christian have sabotaged the plane? Both of his children were on the plane. Some think that Christian appears as "the smoke" as Yemi appeared to Eko. Yet, the coffin WAS empty. A body just doesn't disapear. Who would take it?
We'll have to wait and see. The Island time is 2004. Someone has a theory that one month on the island is about equal to one year off Island. So, if they have been there since Sept. than off Island time should be 2007. LOVE seeing the missing pieces.

I'm not sure Christian's body went back in time, I believe he staged his death. ...Some think that Christian appears as "the smoke" as Yemi appeared to Eko. Yet, the coffin WAS empty. A body just doesn't disapear. Who would take it?


I think the body was taken by the Others so that the Losties wouldn't bury it. The Smoke Monster can only appear as the images of people who have not ben burried. For real.

I think the body was taken by the Others so that the Losties wouldn't bury it. The Smoke Monster can only appear as the images of people who have not ben burried. For real.

Okay, weird, even for the Others. So, we have dead bodies on display at the Temple? Oooh! Freaky! I wouldn't put it pass the writers! They are sadistic.

I think Christian is dead, and it was his ghost that told Vincent to wake up Jack. I know it's a boring theory; I'd rather have Christian be alive, and on the island, but I think he's dead.

Apparently he is "dead in the physical sense" according to the writers, or so they said on Lostpedia.com
However, it was a vision of Christian that Hurley saw in Jacob's cabin! So, he's alive as a ghost? Wow, zombies, cool!

Why would he need to say my son to Vincent the dog? If he were speaking to an actual person I would say OK but Vincent is a dog that cannot communicate and speak English.

I almost had a panic attack LOL when I say this episode. It was great. I want for Christian to be alive so bad.

Just a theory but in S3 finale when Jack says if you think I'm drunk then you should see my father (can't remember exact words) what if (just speculating) his father really is alive.

Why would he need to say my son to Vincent the dog? If he were speaking to an actual person I would say OK but Vincent is a dog that cannot communicate and speak English.

I almost had a panic attack LOL when I say this episode. It was great. I want for Christian to be alive so bad.

Just a theory but in S3 finale when Jack says if you think I'm drunk then you should see my father (can't remember exact words) what if (just speculating) his father really is alive.

So, this would work if there were TWO Christians! Yep, I said two! :eek2:

Christian is not alive...in through the looking Glass, jack was heavily drugged and screwed up. He was drinking and freaking out without his oxycodone. He was so heavily screwed up that he thought his father was still alive. Whatever that was (christian or not) christian is dead....i think:)

Welcome to the Fuse, The hatch123!

Great first post! Hope you venture into other discussions and like it here.

taking enough oxycodone to get you to the point where you "forgot" your father was dead, would render you in a complete hallucinigenic state, not roaming around a hospital.

since TTLG, we have seen Charlie's ghost, Libby's ghost and even more of Christian's ghost. Charlie's drives Hurley to realize he needs to go back to the Island. At this point it is safe to say that apparitions of Christian are what will get Jack to the same point.

welcome to the boards! there is alot about Christian/Jack in other threads that may be more helpful than mine. enjoy.....

taking enough oxycodone to get you to the point where you "forgot" your father was dead, would render you in a complete hallucinigenic state, not roaming around a hospital.


My wife was given a prescription for that after surgery. She said some very strange things and was a mess. I flushed those pills faster than you can say "You get my father down here, get him down here right now, and if I'm drunker than he is, you can fire me." :D

It was strange because she would be able to do things... I didn't let her drive the car but I was able to take her to a doctor's appointment and she had no problems taking the elevator, finding the office, signing in, sitting down and reading a magazine.

Also MF gave EW an interview before the season started (which is still up at EW's site but beware it has minor spoilers) where he was asked about this comment.

Matt said he called Damon on it because he knew his dad was supposed to be dead at the time of the scene. Damon explained to him that this comment (put in to trick the audience into thinking it was a FB) was completely possible in the state of mind that Jack was in at the time (namely oxycodone withdrawal while heavily intoxicated).

So, that's the official explanation. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger.

Christian is not alive...in through the looking Glass, jack was heavily drugged and screwed up. He was drinking and freaking out without his oxycodone. He was so heavily screwed up that he thought his father was still alive. Whatever that was (christian or not) christian is dead....i think:)

When asked about Chrisitian Mr. Carlton did say dead, in a physical sense, in an interview. However, the writers are even more strange than I am. Trying to predict what they will do has proven more difficult than I first thought.
PLEASE, post more thoughts! Welcome!

First time back to the Fuse in a long time... didn't know about the missing pieces. I'm having trouble playing them, and the help isn't any help. Any advice from anyone?

Did you try contacting ABC Tech support?

Any site different from ABC that has them posted is violating copyright, so, even if we knew which sites those are, we can't tell you to go there because we'd be breaking the Fuse's rules.

Sorry, I can't be more help.

Also MF gave EW an interview before the season started (which is still up at EW's site but beware it has minor spoilers) where he was asked about this comment.

Matt said he called Damon on it because he knew his dad was supposed to be dead at the time of the scene. Damon explained to him that this comment (put in to trick the audience into thinking it was a FB) was completely possible in the state of mind that Jack was in at the time (namely oxycodone withdrawal while heavily intoxicated).

So, that's the official explanation. Just saying. Don't shoot the messenger.

That's what I've kind of assumed. He looked to be pretty out of it.

I'm with those who think that Christian is dead and not a hallucination. So...he's gotta be a manifestation of the monster. Or a ghost... Wasn't there a TPTB comment about the Island being full of ghosts?

That's what I've kind of assumed. He looked to be pretty out of it.

I'm with those who think that Christian is dead and not a hallucination. So...he's gotta be a manifestation of the monster. Or a ghost... Wasn't there a TPTB comment about the Island being full of ghosts?

I am not really keen on the idea of ghosts, but I can't get behind this particular apparition of Christian being smokey. Smokey appears to people in familiar forms. Kate sees her horse. Eko sees his brother. Jack sees his father. When Smokey does take on a bodily form it is familiar to the person seeing it. If Christian was smokey, why would he not be in the form of Walt, Susan, or Brian. These are the forms that Vincent would know. It just doesn't fit into the other smokey apparitions.

I'm with those who think that Christian is dead and not a hallucination. So...he's gotta be a manifestation of the monster. Or a ghost... Wasn't there a TPTB comment about the Island being full of ghosts?

I'm hoping no ghosts, but how do we explain Charlie appearing to Hurley? Charlie said, "You're right, I am dead." Did I get that quote right? So, if he isn't a ghost...? How can dead people appear? What IF Ben is manipulating electromagnetic fields causing the smoke monster to appear in a human form? Tesla was the first to talk about this phenomenon. Not sure, but I think Ben is behind this or someone else on the Island is trying to get Hurley back in order to destroy/dethrone Ben.
Thoughts?

I'm hoping no ghosts, but how do we explain Charlie appearing to Hurley? Charlie said, "You're right, I am dead." Did I get that quote right? So, if he isn't a ghost...? How can dead people appear? What IF Ben is manipulating electromagnetic fields causing the smoke monster to appear in a human form? Tesla was the first to talk about this phenomenon. Not sure, but I think Ben is behind this or someone else on the Island is trying to get Hurley back in order to destroy/dethrone Ben.
Thoughts?

Just watched the episode last night. He says, "you're right, I am dead. But I'm also here."

I don't see how manipulating EM fields into ghosts would be possible. What kind of device would that require? Unless it were a straight sci-fi show, I'd have a hard time buying that kind of thing on any series. But, I'm in the camp that thinks that the Island is conscious and a manipulator of destiny. I've always thought Smokey was a manifestation of the Island or at least a manifestation of those who have died on the Island and wish to pass moral judgement on the living.

With the idea that Charlie was the musician that programmed TLG Hatch's code thingy, maybe the Charlie that Hurley saw at the mental hospital was Charlie time jumping...I'm trying to work it out somehow...but Charlie being dead in 2004 and not knowing anything about the Island and everything that happened on it beforehand is cramping my style...

With the idea that Charlie was the musician that programmed TLG Hatch's code thingy, maybe the Charlie that Hurley saw at the mental hospital was Charlie time jumping...I'm trying to work it out somehow...but Charlie being dead in 2004 and not knowing anything about the Island and everything that happened on it beforehand is cramping my style...

Time jumping doesn't explain how Hurley can make Charlie disapear at will. I don't think my theory of Wireless transmission of Electrical Energy using Schumann Resonance will work either. Unless Hurley can stop the transmission at will? Unless someone is helping Hurley?
I vote for science verses ghosts.
100%
Just watched the episode last night. He says, "you're right, I am dead. But I'm also here."

I don't see how manipulating EM fields into ghosts would be possible. What kind of device would that require? Unless it were a straight sci-fi show, I'd have a hard time buying that kind of thing on any series. But, I'm in the camp that thinks that the Island is conscious and a manipulator of destiny. I've always thought Smokey was a manifestation of the Island or at least a manifestation of those who have died on the Island and wish to pass moral judgement on the living.

"Power transmission and transmission of intelligible messages to any point on the globe," was a dream of Tesla, but today, in theory, is possible. HOWEVER, no oil baron or electric company is going to support such an endevor. The US Government, in 1987, apparently spent only 8% on energy related research, according to a book I am reading.
Microwaves were only a theory, too, once.
Nitrogen in our atmosphere could also be a source of power for our homes.
What ever science theory the writers use, I'm sure they will explain it.
Just because we haven't heard of it doesn't make it impossible. :)

too2strange - I think that TPTB are relying on science and pseudo-science to explain the show and what we see in it. I think that in the end, the show will have some scientific explanations and some "ghost" explanations...

It's kind of along the lines of "Man of Science and Man of Faith"...a little bit of both is in the show...

Hurley making Charlie disappear is kind of like what he did to Jacob's Cabin...or so it seems...

too2strange - I think that TPTB are relying on science and pseudo-science to explain the show and what we see in it. I think that in the end, the show will have some scientific explanations and some "ghost" explanations...

It's kind of along the lines of "Man of Science and Man of Faith"...a little bit of both is in the show...

Hurley making Charlie disappear is kind of like what he did to Jacob's Cabin...or so it seems...

Okay, Man of Science I can understand. Man of Faith? Faith in what? When Jack and Locke were talking about this I got the impression Locke was trying to convince Jack that the Island was alive. I'm hoping the writers tell us a scientic explaination to the smoke. If not, I'll survive, I guess. :biggrin:

I think this was the best mobile episode. It proves the theory about time and lost. I also believe that there are hidden messages in these flashbacks.

I think that this gives a solid fact that Christian was on the island and this does not he is alive but connecting this with the dead doctor from the freighter and the message that Bernard got translated from the morse code in the things to come that the doctor was fine plays right into that Orchid Video where the same bunny rabbit was in the same place at the same time.

I think that this gives a solid fact that Christian was on the island ... but connecting this with the dead doctor from the freighter and the message that Bernard got translated from the morse code in the things to come that the doctor was fine plays right into that Orchid Video where the same bunny rabbit was in the same place at the same time.

Yes, I too think the Orchid Video is key in understanding the Island. I too believe it is possible that Christian was duplicated. One in the coffin and the duplicate alive on Island. It appears the duplicate obtains all the same knowledge of the original. What I was wondering is if the freighter people have been duplicated? I don't think they were. I think time between the Island and freighter is just different.
I'm hoping this thursday will explain the time difference better.

I hope so too.

my question is the white shoes.. an odd part of the outfit. he is wearing a black suit, and if he didnt take it with him, jack would have bought it, why not a nice pair of dress shoes, why white tennis shoes?

I have watched the "white rabbit" epi a million times, it is haunting and unnerving.
the music is awsome and the whole point of a man of science - jack seeing his father.
he was not afraid either to go looking for him.. but my first thought was that someone or something was getting jack to make the right move to save the losties - take them to water. why jack? because jack works for the group.. Locke proved his selfishness when confronted jack in the woods.

LOST is back.. love it.

Yes, I too think the Orchid Video is key in understanding the Island. I too believe it is possible that Christian was duplicated. One in the coffin and the duplicate alive on Island. It appears the duplicate obtains all the same knowledge of the original. What I was wondering is if the freighter people have been duplicated? I don't think they were. I think time between the Island and freighter is just different.
I'm hoping this thursday will explain the time difference better.I heard recently that TPTB said that we should review the Orchid video again to try and get a better understanding of what's going on. I might try to do that before the eppy tonight.

Anyways, I have been under the impression that the Christian Shepherd that we saw in the mobisode was not the real CS, but Jacob/the Island/Smokey taking possession of his dead body. We've seen dead people appear to live people on the Island with important messages, like Ana-Lucia appearing to Eko. That wasn't the real AL, IMHO, so I've thought that whatever it was, it was the same thing that was taking on CS' body.

Also, we've seen the body of CS in Jacob's Cabin, sitting in the chair. Are we to assume that the version of Jacob that got mad at Ben and pushed him into the wall and asked Locke to help him is the CS body? I mean, I guess that I'm trying to piece together if in the mobisode, its Jacob as CS that we're seeing, telling Vincent that Jack has work to do. If it is, why is he calling Jack his son? Why is that necessary when no one is watching? Why couldn't he have said something like, "Dr. Jack Shepherd has work to do!"?

my question is the white shoes.. an odd part of the outfit. he is wearing a black suit, and if he didnt take it with him, jack would have bought it, why not a nice pair of dress shoes, why white tennis shoes?

I have watched the "white rabbit" epi a million times, it is haunting and unnerving.
the music is awsome and the whole point of a man of science - jack seeing his father.
he was not afraid either to go looking for him.. but my first thought was that someone or something was getting jack to make the right move to save the losties - take them to water. why jack? because jack works for the group.. Locke proved his selfishness when confronted jack in the woods.

LOST is back.. love it.

Wow. This time they really did it. That was one real relevant missing piece...

This one was truly relevant. So many of the other ones seem to press I like this one and the one with Ben playing chess the best.

I believe Christian has been on the island before and "lost" to Jacob to become the powerful entity of the island and this is why Jacob needed help, Christian was back and giving Jacob a beat down
100%
also christian knew Jack would contradict John throughtout the show putting the wheels in motion for this takeover

I believe Christian has been on the island before and "lost" to Jacob to become the powerful entity of the island and this is why Jacob needed help, Christian was back and giving Jacob a beat down
100%
also christian knew Jack would contradict John throughtout the show putting the wheels in motion for this takeover

Good points. I do think Christian is not Ben friend. I believe Ben knew Jacob was not going to be in the cabin, which is why he didn't go in.