On ABC:
Matthew Fox as Jack
John Terry as Christian Shephard
Music by: Michael Giacchino
Costume Designer: Roland Sanchez
Edited by: Robert Florio, A.C.E.
Production Designer: Jonathan A. Carlson
Director of Photography: John Bartley, A.S.C./C.S.C.
Executive Producers: J.J. Abrams, Damon Lindelof, Bryan Burk, Jack Bender, Carlton Cuse
Co-Executive Producers: Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz, Drew Goddard, Stephen Williams, Jean Higgins
Supervising Producer: Elizabeth Sarnoff
Producers: Ra'uf Glasgow, Pat Churchill
Co-Producers: Richard Peter Schroer, Brian K. Vaughn, Samantha Thomas
Executive Story Editor: Christina M. Kim
Associate Producer: Kaleen Yamase
Written by Drew Goddard
Directed by Jack Bender


http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/missingpieces/index?pn=missingpiecescredits#t=0&d=78371
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You should really watch it before reading the transcripts:

[We see the jungle and hear someone running. The view is low to the ground. We hear panting. It’s Vincent. He passes open suitcases and sniffs them. He hears a whistle. We see legs. It’s Christian. Vincent runs up to him. Christian talks to Vincent.]

Christian: Hey there. Come on. Come on. Come on. Good boy. Come on. Come here. Come here. Good boy. Yes. [He leans down and pets him.] I need you to go find my son. He’s over there in that bamboo forest, unconscious. I need you to go wake him up. Ok. Go on.

[Vincent whines and runs off.]

Christian: He has work to do.

[We see Jack’s eye open just like the beginning of the pilot. Jack wakes up slowly, looks around, sees Vincent come through the jungle. Vincent whines, runs by him, and runs off. LOST black screen.]
From Dark UFO

Wow. This time they really did it. That was one real relevant missing piece...

simply mindblowing

Oh. My. God.
That is just the most amazing "piece" of the puzzle to date.

The obvious question is :
Is Christian really alive?
Or is it Smokey (and maybe Jacob), and he refers to Jack as "his son"?

The Smokey / Jacob thing would be way weird, but then would a normal person (well, as normal as anyone who has risen from the dead can be) be able to "control" Vincent that way?

Also the having "work to do", is also what Walt said to Locke, suggesting it might be from the same source.

My vote is Smokey / Jacob, but that his "my son" comment isn't just a throwaway line.
Because remember, you could think he's saying "my son" because he's in the persona of Christian, but that rule didn't apply for Yemi ("You speak to me as if I'm your brother").

I don't even know where to start.... it's so simple but it's more interesting then every other mobisode that we have seen. Did anyone else see the black smoke that was around :15, right before Vincent turns around? Or was that just me?

This last mobisode is the first one that really intrigues me. What "work" does Jack have to do and who wants him to do it? They tie the daddy issues right back in to the heart of the island's secret hidden agenda. Everyone's a pawn, and that started right at the beginning. Fascinating.

This one has got my braining racing about Smokey. We've had clues that there are more than one correct? It's going to be a good vs evil situation. Bringing back in the black vs. white. Locke saw the good one; the light one. I think this one is actually Jacob; maybe an asteral projection. The ash that surrounds the cabin is actually proctecting him from the black smoke. Christian is a projection of Jacob; Yemi was a projection of the bad one. So who is the "man" behind the bad smoke monster?
Sorry I had to get that out.
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white shoes!!

:jump: Lost is baaaaaack :biggrin:

Because remember, you could think he's saying "my son" because he's in the persona of Christian, but that rule didn't apply for Yemi ("You speak to me as if I'm your brother").

Good point. The "my son" line must be taken into consideration: it's not by chance that they chose to add it, in the light of Yemi's story.

OMG this is SO good! My poor head can't even begin to make sense of this!

OMG!!!
That was great.
The perspective of Vincent was unique and a first I think!

Whats amazing too is, Vincent heard the whistle, stops
in his tracks, responds to Christian and sets out to do
just one Christian asked him to do.

Only, Jack seems to wake before Vincent gets there, and
when Vincent sees Jack he lets out a little cry and runs off.

Just how real is Christian Sheppard?
What else has Vincent seen?

Hopefully there are more Vincent's on-island flashbacks to come.. his perspective is really good.

Yay, we finally get our much-craved Vincent-centric episode!

So this episode reinforces that Cerberus is able to interact physically with others, even when taking on the form of someone it has absorbed. Nice.

Remember we where meant to have a Vincent flashback at the end of Season One, but the writers cancelled it because it was spoiled? Perhapes this was their intended cliff hanger moment for that episode. It sure would have blown our minds back then, but even now it is very surprising.
I hope that the whole 'my son' thing is more important, as smokey refused to call Eko his brother while taking on Yemi's appearence. I just hope it doesn't go the 'it's just smokey' plot line, and there is maybe a certain bit of Christian alive or hanging around in some form.
Perhapes this is how Claire and Jack discover their connection?

Hmm, that would make sense if Cerberus told them, since it clearly absorbs memories as well as just physical forms.

OMG! This was the best piece of Lost ever, I don't know if it's more WTF than the FF in TTLG, but it certainly gives it some competition. It all began with a job Jack had to do, and because he left the island he hasn't done that work yet. He has to go baaaaaack!

I think it will all end once Jack has done his work.

Oh. My. God.
That is just the most amazing "piece" of the puzzle to date.

The obvious question is :
Is Christian really alive?
Or is it Smokey (and maybe Jacob), and he refers to Jack as "his son"?

The Smokey / Jacob thing would be way weird, but then would a normal person (well, as normal as anyone who has risen from the dead can be) be able to "control" Vincent that way?

Also the having "work to do", is also what Walt said to Locke, suggesting it might be from the same source.

My vote is Smokey / Jacob, but that his "my son" comment isn't just a throwaway line.
Because remember, you could think he's saying "my son" because he's in the persona of Christian, but that rule didn't apply for Yemi ("You speak to me as if I'm your brother").

Excellent observations! I was so stunned by this mobisode, I could barely do more than squeak, let alone take note of all that.

However, I do believe that Christian is dead, and that this is just a manisfestation of Smokey, just like Yemi. It's interesting that both their bodies are/were on the island. I have no idea why it would take Christian's appearance here though- with all the others, I always assumed that Smokey was sort of tapping into their memories and taking on forms that were familiar to the subject, but Jack was not even in the scene in this case and was lying unconscious somewhere else, so the level of premeditation shown here just confounds everything I thought before.

And I have no idea if the 'my son' comment is really significant. :confused:

This last mobisode is the first one that really intrigues me. What "work" does Jack have to do and who wants him to do it? They tie the daddy issues right back in to the heart of the island's secret hidden agenda. Everyone's a pawn, and that started right at the beginning. Fascinating.

I assumed that the "work" he wanted Jack to do just referred to waking himself up and going to the aid of everyone scattered around the fuselage, though it could be something more complicated than that, I'm not sure.

Can I just join the chorus and say how amazing this mobisode was? It's just a shame that most casual viewers who don't go on the internet for their Lost fix won't get to see this.

Sounds awesome :D I expect to see more of Christian ON THE ISLAND in the wake of this mobisode.

Can I just join the chorus and say how amazing this mobisode was? It's just a shame that most casual viewers who don't go on the internet for their Lost fix won't get to see this.

Well, it's important to remember that virtually none of the Lost audience will ever see this mobisode, so it's importance in the overall scheme of things shouldn't be overestimated. Until they hint at something like this on the actual show, it doesn't mean much. These kind of things are generated specifically for the entertainment of obsessives like us, to give us things to chatter about.

But it's goosebump inducing (or will be if they introduce it on the actual show) because it ties a lot of themes up in a very pithy fashion. I don't think Jack's "work" was just hauling people out of the wreckage. I think there have been ample clues throughout that these people were brought there with an explicit agenda in mind and Christian here is given form as another version of that "man behind the curtain" theme that also runs throughout the story. Something brought this particular group to the island for a specific reason and what that reason is and how it plays out is basically the story that we're watching. That's how I take it.

Agree with all, totally stunning. I had a level of suspense watching it that I would only associate with the actual show, not a mobisode! Don't know yet how to react, but wanted to comment on this:
I always assumed that Smokey was sort of tapping into their memories and taking on forms that were familiar to the subject, but Jack was not even in the scene in this case and was lying unconscious somewhere else, so the level of premeditation shown here just confounds everything I thought before.
Yeah, I definitely thought this as well. Smokey took Yemi's form after scanning Eko. Do we know if it scanned Kate before she saw her horse? We can definitely assume it scanned Ben or his father before becoming Ben's mother. Wasn't there a long ago theory that Smokey scanned them during the crash?

So has anyone seen the smoke at :15? I think it's really there.

The best mobisode by far. Christian appearing to Jack was something but to Vincent?? That's completely different. I hope they can explain it satisfactoraly.


Can I just join the chorus and say how amazing this mobisode was? It's just a shame that most casual viewers who don't go on the internet for their Lost fix won't get to see this.

That's exactly the reason I'm a bit hesitant to say "awesome" because I don't know how much TPTB will value the information given in the mobisodes. When thought together with other spoilers Christian is becoming a very key character, which I like. But is it really because that Christian is connected to the overall story or that since fans are talking about Christian (dead/alive) they are telling the story through Christian though he's not really that important?

So has anyone seen the smoke at :15? I think it's really there.

It may be at :16.

It may be at :16.

I see something, but I can't tell for sure if it's Smokey :confused:

And at :34 as well, just before Shepard's shoes appear, on the right.

see here
http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2990/smokejz3.png (http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2990/smokejz3.png)

I wouldn't think about it otherwise. But Vincent seemed to turn around and go in the other direction as soon as he sees it. He runs into Christian going in the other direction. Is this a clue that Christian and the smoke monster are not the same?

I wouldn't think about it otherwise. But Vincent seemed to turn around and go in the other direction as soon as he sees it. He runs into Christian going in the other direction. Is this a clue that Christian and the smoke monster are not the same?

It could be a clue that there are two differant "smoke monsters" in conflict on the Island. One "good", one "bad." Of course they aren't really "monsters", but a physical manifestation of two rivals who have become disembodied. What I find interesting, is if there are two "Smokeys", perhaps that explains the criteria being used by the Others to determine "good" and "bad"?

I think we'd have to see a much higher quality version of this video before jumping to any conclusions. I'm not too sure that was more than a big, dark tree in the background.

But it's goosebump inducing (or will be if they introduce it on the actual show) because it ties a lot of themes up in a very pithy fashion. I don't think Jack's "work" was just hauling people out of the wreckage. I think there have been ample clues throughout that these people were brought there with an explicit agenda in mind and Christian here is given form as another version of that "man behind the curtain" theme that also runs throughout the story. Something brought this particular group to the island for a specific reason and what that reason is and how it plays out is basically the story that we're watching. That's how I take it.

I'm really not sure how to take Christian/Smokey's comment, whether he was referring to the immediate need at hand, to Jack finding himself as a leader...or if Jack is somehow crucially connected to the island. If the manifestation was of Christian's ghost, then I would think that it has more to do with Jack's destiny than the island, but if it was Smokey in one of his guises, then his interest is probably related to a bigger picture than just Jack or the survivors.

All this is doing my head in, but in a good way! :)


That's exactly the reason I'm a bit hesitant to say "awesome" because I don't know how much TPTB will value the information given in the mobisodes. When thought together with other spoilers Christian is becoming a very key character, which I like. But is it really because that Christian is connected to the overall story or that since fans are talking about Christian (dead/alive) they are telling the story through Christian though he's not really that important?

Good question. I really hope they tie this into the actual show and that it doesn't end up like the whole numbers mystery. :undecide:

I'm breathless!!! It's awesome!
:jawdrop:

I wouldn't think about it otherwise. But Vincent seemed to turn around and go in the other direction as soon as he sees it. He runs into Christian going in the other direction. Is this a clue that Christian and the smoke monster are not the same?

Perhaps, there are two smoke monsters?

OMGWTF... W...WHAAAAAAAT???

I'm late for work... I'll have a hard time finding that building I'm supposed to go to... the one with all the computers in it...

:thud:

One thing's for sure (at least to me): We're supposed to draw a connection between Walt's comment to Locke about getting up out of the Purge pit because he had "work to do" and CS's comment to Vincent that he needed to rouse Jack because he also had "work to do." Black & white. Good vs evil? Representative of two conflicting forces at work?

I'm . . . I'm . . . I uhhh ...... I'm almost speechless. That was FABULOUS! Lost never ceases to amaze me.

Rabidranger, I agree; the good versus evil theme seems to be raising it's head again. But which is which? LOL!

Brang it on! I'm so ready for Lost!:biggrin:

One thing's for sure (at least to me): We're supposed to draw a connection between Walt's comment to Locke about getting up out of the Purge pit because he had "work to do" and CS's comment to Vincent that he needed to rouse Jack because he also had "work to do." Black & white. Good vs evil? Representative of two conflicting forces at work?

I absolutely agree. The Locke vs. Jack showdown has not even begun. I played for a while with the idea that the island was duping Locke, that once again, Locke had placed his faith in the wrong "God", as we saw him do so many times in his FBs. Now I think that theory is a lot more likely.

Personally, I think CS is dead and this mobisode doesn't prove otherwise, although I can hear the rumblings of the Christian Lives theorists approaching. Christian is wearing his white shoes. I think this is very important. The final battle will be a good vs. evil epic encounter: dark vs. light, white vs. black... Very much in the same vein as The Stand (by Stephen King - one of TPTB's favorite authors) was. The white shoes are prominent, and there's clear intention to highlight them in the brilliant shot compositions by Jack Bender. So, does this mean that Christian is on the side of "good"? I think it does, and given who he was when he was alive, it's certainly fitting that he'll try to right his wrongs.

I know many will be turned off by this, but I think it's really Christian's ghost on the island. There have been just too many ghost references from the whispers, to invisible-telekinetic Jacob, to the ash circle. Christian can't move on (to the light, if you will) because he has to accomplish this final mission of guiding Jack into his mission, his destiny.

And we come to the topic of Destiny (or predestination paradoxes for those who lean toward more sci-fi explanations), which has been hammered into our little brains since day one and in every Lost Special clip show ever made, and in about 90% of the podcasts, and again, in the Charlie-must-die theme throughout season 3. It all began with Jack's destiny. In the very first episode, with a shot of his eye. And Locke's destiny is inextricably entwined with Jack's (as your very sharp observation of Walt's line to Locke shows, rabid). That's why they can't kill each other, not yet.

I don't think they've given us a bigger clue about the nature of the show before.

Whew! That was brilliant! So much in so quick a mobisode...so many questions...so little time until S4 starts...
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By the way, CL...great post...I think that "our boy" might have a date with the devil, so to speak...I like the white tennis shoes meaning "good guys" analogy...I'm afraid that Locke has been duped...and duped by the "bad guys"...it's just my opinion, of course...

*Goes to email this mobisode to some of my coworkers so that I have people in-person to talk about this with...YIKES!*

Really great way to send us into season #4

I'm fairly new to a lot of these theories, and I find the tie-in with Smokey to be very interesting. Until today, I didn't put Smokey and Yemi together at all.

The Locke vs. Jack showdown has not even begun. I played for a while with the idea that the island was duping Locke, that once again, Locke had placed his faith in the wrong "God", as we saw him do so many times in his FBs. Now I think that theory is a lot more likely.

Another possibility: Jack and Locke aren't on "opposing teams." Their actions, though contradictory at times, lead both of them to the same goal. They both have "work to do", but not against each other. The struggle between the John & Jack is a red herring. IMHO, of course. ;)

Another possibility: Jack and Locke aren't on "opposing teams." Their actions, though contradictory at times, lead both of them to the same goal. They both have "work to do", but not against each other. The struggle between the John & Jack is a red herring. IMHO, of course. ;)

I like that theory, and welcome to the board!

If that does pan out, who do you think will be the "evil" they should both be fighting?

wow. just wow.
I'm as stunned as everyone else.
Most shocking & unexpected Lost scene, EVER, either on or off screen.
And my 3 favorite characters, to boot.

I still say we've got some intriguing clues that may explain Christian's presence - and condition - on the island.

1. Christian died the same week, maybe the same day, as Zukerman, and his death was attributed to the same cause: a heart attack.

2. Zukerman was actually poisoned by Paolo, the South American Chef. A South American chef would be familiar with the properties of pufferfish (http://science.howstuffworks.com/zombie1.htm), or some similar, toxin.

3. We've seen two overt cases of what look like death but was paralysis (Pikki).

My long-standing spec (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=84275) (mild spoilerish info on this link: it gives the name of one of the S4 characters): Christian was poisoned by the same person/group that commissioned Pikki to kill Zukerman. Christian was in that death-like paralyzed state when placed on the plane. His brain went long enough without oxygen that he suffered severe, irreversible brain damage.

Carlton told us with a ;) that there'd be a ZOMBIE (http://www.biology-online.org/articles/dead_man_walking.html) season. He wanted us to think he was kidding but maybe this is it!!!! Christian, the zombie, is under Jacob's or Smokie's control! :biggrin:

I think Christian is alive. Unlike Boone and Shannon, Libby and a few others, we never SEE Christian die. We assume he is because Jack is fetching him in a casket. He's part of the DI and/or Hanso, and that's all there is too it.

The smokey monster is just magnetic filings, manipuated in such a way as to cause illusion and fear.

There was an autopsy report. Christian couldn't have survived an autopsy.

There was an autopsy report. Christian couldn't have survived an autopsy. A piece of paper's easy enough to fake.

I like that theory, and welcome to the board!

If that does pan out, who do you think will be the "evil" they should both be fighting?

Honestly, I'm not so much sold on good vs. evil either... mainly because most of that comes from Ben's mouth. :D

But if I were to take Ben's word that the "rescuers" are the "bad guys," then I think the island is using Jack & John as pawns to help fight off the "bad guys."

But...how do we know...for sure...that the autopsy report was real?

That sound I keep hearing between my ears? That's Damon Lindelof talking to my mind, asking: "Was that good for you, honey?" Oh, was it ever.

Honestly, I'm not so much sold on good vs. evil either... mainly because most of that comes from Ben's mouth. :D

But if I were to take Ben's word that the "rescuers" are the "bad guys," then I think the island is using Jack & John as pawns to help fight off the "bad guys."

I'm still mostly undecided about the Island's nature, but I don't think it's tricking Locke (well, not that way) and I tend to agree that Jack and Locke are not on completely opposite sides, they just don't know it yet.

Now I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch White Rabbit. Jack almost died chasing Smokey Christian, but Locke saved him and was his Yoda, basically telling him that he's got work to do because people look up to him. So again, I don't see Jack and Locke as mortal enemies.

There was an autopsy report. Christian couldn't have survived an autopsy.

There's supposedly footage of 815 in the trench also. All ain't what it seems.

Definitely the best tidbit of the series. Definitely goosebump inducing. Right up there with "We're gonna have to take the boy." and the first time I saw the DHARMA symbol on the shark.

I have no idea why it would take Christian's appearance here though- with all the others, I always assumed that Smokey was sort of tapping into their memories and taking on forms that were familiar to the subject, but Jack was not even in the scene in this case and was lying unconscious somewhere else, so the level of premeditation shown here just confounds everything I thought before.

My take on this is that Smokey had seen Jack, and possibly scanned him ala Locke, Eko and Juliet (hence knowing where exactly he is) and then went after Christians body, tried out his new Christian look (eww, sounds gross when I put it like that, lol) on Vincent nearby. Yemi's body was there the first time Eko went to the beechcraft, but not in "Cost of Living" anymore - just like Christian's body was missing from the coffin.

Which leads me to believe Christian is dead, but all this is a missing puzzle piece for the overall monster picture. A pretty mind blowing missing piece though :D

I think the gazillion times TPTB have said he's dead, beyond reasonable doubt, will keep me in the "CS is dead" camp until proven otherwise on screen.

This one should be called a "LOST Masterpiece" and not a "Missing Piece"...

It's brilliantly vexing...

And I'm wondering when they filmed it...way back when they had the Christian and Vincent actors appearing in previous scenes? Have they been holding onto this film for all this time? If so...more wows...
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My take on this is that Smokey had seen Jack, and possibly scanned him ala Locke, Eko and Juliet (hence knowing where exactly he is) and then went after Christians body, tried out his new Christian look (eww, sounds gross when I put it like that, lol) on Vincent nearby. Yemi's body was there the first time Eko went to the beechcraft, but not in "Cost of Living" anymore - just like Christian's body was missing from the coffin.

Which leads me to believe Christian is dead, but all this is a missing puzzle piece for the overall monster picture. A pretty mind blowing missing piece though :D
Great post...I can see all of that being true...

This one should be called a "LOST Masterpiece" and not a "Missing Piece"...

It's brilliantly vexing...

And I'm wondering when they filmed it...way back when they had the Christian and Vincent actors appearing in previous scenes? Have they been holding onto this film for all this time? If so...more wows...
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Great post...I can see all of that being true...

You know I think they wrapped up filming for these a while ago, so, yes, KUDOS, for keeping it under wraps for so long! I'm impressed.

I think the gazillion times TPTB have said he's dead, beyond reasonable doubt, will keep me in the "CS is dead" camp until proven otherwise on screen.
CL, I agree. But how he died, and why he's on the island point to some sci-fi or paranormal stuff.
We already knew *something* that looked like him is on the island, because we saw 'it' independent of Jack's viewpoint.
This mobisode confirms there's *something* there that looks like Christian, and it talks.
So I'm going with zombie, :biggrin: not because I'm a fan of zombie flicks or stories (I'm not), but because it fits the clues.

I like the way they used original footage. Was the footage of Jack just a little longer than what was in the episode? For some reason, I want to say, it pulls back just a little further than we originally saw.

lostmio - you have to have the thought of a zombie, to be able to even consider a season of them. TPTB said Season 7 would be the zombie season, they didn't say we wouldn't see them before then. :biggrin:

Too much fun

So has anyone seen the smoke at :15? I think it's really there.
looks like a bush of darker green nature.
of course i don't know for sure.

You know I think they wrapped up filming for these a while ago, so, yes, KUDOS, for keeping it under wraps for so long! I'm impressed.
And I am SO glad it wasn't spoiled! Uh oh...am I leaning toward being less spoiled?

Nah ;) ...I think if they had shown this one earlier on, it may have fed the LOST-hungry fans...

But I guess the writers and TPTB always want to bring on the surprises...just in time...

Maybe I love this show too much, but I'm actually a little teary-eyed to see Vincent back (and I've been wanting a Vincent-centric epi for years) and possibly having a super cool importance, if not, scifi/psuedo science explanation...

I'm actually back to thinking that maybe on-Island-Christian and Vincent are angels...or are they time agents...

Ah.......LOST again. ;)

That sound I keep hearing between my ears? That's Damon Lindelof talking to my mind, asking: "Was that good for you, honey?" Oh, was it ever. ;) Nice circumvention of the Fuse language filter, there. Yes, my mind felt the same.

I'm still mostly undecided about the Island's nature, but I don't think it's tricking Locke (well, not that way) and I tend to agree that Jack and Locke are not on completely opposite sides, they just don't know it yet.

Now I'm gonna have to go back and rewatch White Rabbit. Jack almost died chasing Smokey Christian, but Locke saved him and was his Yoda, basically telling him that he's got work to do because people look up to him. So again, I don't see Jack and Locke as mortal enemies. I think the "got work to do" parallel between Jack and Locke is significant, but not good vs. evil. Lost has contnually challenged us on the shades of grey within our conception of each. If anything, this further deepens Jack's fundamental connection with the island and what his purpose there is. At the very least, the "work to do" is to get up and be a doctor, helping save the crash survivors in the immediate aftermath. But I imagine it has a dual meaning and a larger conception of the work - to be a shepherd to the survivors, or maybe even to fulfill some kind of larger destiny here. Can't wait to find out more.

My take on this is that Smokey had seen Jack, and possibly scanned him ala Locke, Eko and Juliet (hence knowing where exactly he is) and then went after Christians body, tried out his new Christian look (eww, sounds gross when I put it like that, lol) on Vincent nearby. Yemi's body was there the first time Eko went to the beechcraft, but not in "Cost of Living" anymore - just like Christian's body was missing from the coffin.

Which leads me to believe Christian is dead, but all this is a missing puzzle piece for the overall monster picture. A pretty mind blowing missing piece though :D

I think there's a compelling argument for Smokey re-animating a dead body, so to speak, with Christian now even talking. I think it's significant that Christian actually touched Vincent. Did Yemi and Eko touch in COL? (When Eko first saw Yemi it was in his dream that opened "?", so that seems to be a different sort of apparition.)

Is it my imagination, or does ghost/Christian/Smokey speak with affection when he says "my son"? There's certainly a bit of the real Christian in there.

This one should be called a "LOST Masterpiece" and not a "Missing Piece"...

It's brilliantly vexing... That it is. I'm terribly vexed.

And I'm wondering when they filmed it...way back when they had the Christian and Vincent actors appearing in previous scenes? Have they been holding onto this film for all this time? If so...more wows...
They could have easily filmed it along with the other Mobisodes, since Christian and Vincent were each in another mobisode. The footage of Jack looks like it's just the Pilot footage but the video experts can rule on that.

We've long been wishing for a Vincent flashback, and it's awesome to see the jungle from his eye-view, and wow, we thought Vincent was privy to some Island secrets, but I never imagined this!

Honestly, I'm not so much sold on good vs. evil either... mainly because most of that comes from Ben's mouth. :D

But if I were to take Ben's word that the "rescuers" are the "bad guys," then I think the island is using Jack & John as pawns to help fight off the "bad guys."You know, Olu, the more that I think about it, I think that it will come to light that Jack and John are on the same "team"...and both of them are fighting the "bad guys"...for the Island...

CL, I agree. But how he died, and why he's on the island point to some sci-fi or paranormal stuff.
We already knew *something* that looked like him is on the island, because we saw 'it' independent of Jack's viewpoint.
This mobisode confirms there's *something* there that looks like Christian, and it talks.
So I'm going with zombie, :biggrin: not because I'm a fan of zombie flicks or stories (I'm not), but because it fits the clues.

The other significant part is CS (or whoever/whatever he is) actually touched Vincent (cradled his face in his hands). Not just a mirage.

;) Nice circumvention of the Fuse language filter, there. Yes, my mind felt the same. me too, gee where's a cigarette when you need one?

I think there's a compelling argument for Smokey re-animating a dead body, so to speak, with Christian now even talking. Technically a re-animated corpse is a zombie.
geesh, who'd have thunk I'd ever love a show that even hints at a zombie?

I'm terribly vexed.I'm way past vexed, bothered, and bewildered - I'm bewitched! :in_love:

:lost::vincent:

If Smokey/Jacob/Spirits can inhabit Christian's dead body, I see no reason at all why Vincent is still just a dog with a talent for showing up at the right time.

I like the way they used original footage. Was the footage of Jack just a little longer than what was in the episode? For some reason, I want to say, it pulls back just a little further than we originally saw.

lostmio - you have to have the thought of a zombie, to be able to even consider a season of them. TPTB said Season 7 would be the zombie season, they didn't say we wouldn't see them before then. :biggrin:

Too much funI thought similarly, Sam. I thought that they panned up a lot higher when the camera looked down at Jack when he was still lying down in the jungle...

I think the "got work to do" parallel between Jack and Locke is significant, but not good vs. evil. Lost has contnually challenged us on the shades of grey within our conception of each. If anything, this further deepens Jack's fundamental connection with the island and what his purpose there is. At the very least, the "work to do" is to get up and be a doctor, helping save the crash survivors in the immediate aftermath. But I imagine it has a dual meaning and a larger conception of the work - to be a shepherd to the survivors, or maybe even to fulfill some kind of larger destiny here. Can't wait to find out more.This is pretty cool, I agree, workingmom. I think that both men will find out (hopefully sooner rather than later or...too late...) that they are supposed to work together, each bringing a different perspective to the table, to the fight that they're fighting for, possibly, the Island. Jack's bringing the Man of Science and Locke is bringing the Man of Faith to the table, to the fight, although they both are seeing and learning the benefits of both perspectives as the story progresses. I don't know how quickly that they'll realize that they should work as a team or what will have to happen to make them realize this, but I think that there's going to be some, okay, a lot, of turmoil between now and then. Something wants them to kill each other before they can work together...

I think there's a compelling argument for Smokey re-animating a dead body, so to speak, with Christian now even talking. I think it's significant that Christian actually touched Vincent. Did Yemi and Eko touch in COL? (When Eko first saw Yemi it was in his dream that opened "?", so that seems to be a different sort of apparition.)I think that when Smokey takes over a body he looks and interacts with things with the relationship that that person has with the Losties or the specific Lostie. Meaning...Jack is "his son"...but this isn't really CS, but it's Smokey taking on not only CS' physical appearance, but his relationships to the world, too...

Is it my imagination, or does ghost/Christian/Smokey speak with affection when he says "my son"? There's certainly a bit of the real Christian in there.Yes, I agree whole-heartedly. That's part of why I think that when and if Smokey takes the form of a person, he takes on everything about them, including their memories and experiences, but he isn't them 100%...he's Smokey living inside the mind and body of a person...does that make sense?
100%
The other significant part is CS (or whoever/whatever he is) actually touched Vincent (cradled his face in his hands). Not just a mirage.That shows real emotion, doesn't it? That's why I think that when Smokey takes on a body, he takes on everything in and about that person, but doesn't lose sight of his main objective - somehow...I think that he takes on their memories, emotions, relationships, etc...

We did get major hints about labrador retrievers being special in TLE from last year. That Mandrake Wig guy and his labs. I think that somehow, Vincent can understand English, but it's a secret - kind of like how Sun could, but kept it a secret from Jin for awhile...perhaps the DI has worked on animals and Vincent was involved...somehow?

I thought similarly, Sam. I thought that they panned up a lot higher when the camera looked down at Jack when he was still lying down in the jungle...


I have to pull out the season 1 dvd and look. If that's the case it reminds me on the shot of smokey looking down on Locke.

Yes, the scene is longer, they pull back much further than in the pilot episode, even though it is probably only a second or two.

So I'm going with zombie, :biggrin: not because I'm a fan of zombie flicks or stories (I'm not), but because it fits the clues.

Aaaah! But ghosts would fit the clues just the same, ;) (resistance is futile, you know? :biggrin: )

If anything, this further deepens Jack's fundamental connection with the island and what his purpose there is. At the very least, the "work to do" is to get up and be a doctor, helping save the crash survivors in the immediate aftermath. But I imagine it has a dual meaning and a larger conception of the work - to be a shepherd to the survivors, or maybe even to fulfill some kind of larger destiny here. Can't wait to find out more.

Completely agree. Jack has been connected to the island since S1, as we was the First Lostie we knew off that could see "dead men walking". Locke was also connected from the very first episode when he got his legs back.

I'm now left wondering if Jack's injuries weren't far more deadly than we ever saw? His awakening is very sudden and they took special care in making that shot with the pupil decreasing in size rapidly. And there's the fact he was thrown so far away from the beach, with all that luggage scattered and opened by the force of the impact, how is it possible he didn't get a single broken bone? His awakening was almost like a drowning victim spewing water out of his lungs. Reminded me of Charlie's sharp intake of breath after Jack brought him back in ATBCHDI. Not to mention he opens his eyes before Vincent reaches him, almost as a response to a command from Christian (the way it's edited)

I think the tone, the music, the visual composition, the editing and the title strongly point to a larger destiny theme, beyond the immediate need of saving the survivors at the beach.

I think there's a compelling argument for Smokey re-animating a dead body, so to speak, with Christian now even talking. I think it's significant that Christian actually touched Vincent. Did Yemi and Eko touch in COL? (When Eko first saw Yemi it was in his dream that opened "?", so that seems to be a different sort of apparition.)

Is it my imagination, or does ghost/Christian/Smokey speak with affection when he says "my son"? There's certainly a bit of the real Christian in there.

I might regret saying this later, but perhaps it has something to do with how "fresh" the body is? Yemi was almost completely decomposed, while Christian had died only a few days before. Perhaps Smokey is able to take on more and more of the host's characteristics if the vessel is not completely decomposed yet.

I just thought of something else. Since Jacob appeared to be trapped by the circle of ash, could a physical body be the only way it can get out of his Cabin? And could the Smoke Monster be bringing Jacob the bodies that he needs to leave his prison?
That it is. I'm terribly vexed.

We've long been wishing for a Vincent flashback, and it's awesome to see the jungle from his eye-view, and wow, we thought Vincent was privy to some Island secrets, but I never imagined this!

I always had faith in Vincent, workingmom! But even I was absolutely surprised by this.

You know, Olu, the more that I think about it, I think that it will come to light that Jack and John are on the same "team"...and both of them are fighting the "bad guys"...for the Island...

You guys convinced me! :biggrin: So now I need to know the what / who / how / why of the really big baddie(s) out there.

I just thought of something else. Since Jacob appeared to be trapped by the circle of ash, could a physical body be the only way it can get out of his Cabin? And could the Smoke Monster be bringing Jacob the bodies that he needs to leave his prison?

That is brilliant, CL! :biggrin:

Uh oh...Hope that Hurley gets away OK...

Completely agree. Jack has been connected to the island since S1, as we was the First Lostie we knew off that could see "dead men walking". Locke was also connected from the very first episode when he got his legs back.I wonder if and when we see what Locke saw that was so beautiful to him in S1 was his sister and his mother? I ask this question because what's the significance of the people tha saw something or someone that they shouldn't have and why those people? Jack, Locke, Kate, Hurley, Sayid? Shannon and Charlie, too, right? What about Sawyer? Maybe, the Cooper that he and Locke saw might count? Does this mean that these people are especially important to the fight that might be going on behind the scenes that we don't, as of yet, know about?

I'm now left wondering if Jack's injuries weren't far more deadly than we ever saw? His awakening is very sudden and they took special care in making that shot with the pupil decreasing in size rapidly. And there's the fact he was thrown so far away from the beach, with all that luggage scattered and opened by the force of the impact, how is it possible he didn't get a single broken bone? His awakening was almost like a drowning victim spewing water out of his lungs. Reminded me of Charlie's sharp intake of breath after Jack brought him back in ATBCHDI. Not to mention he opens his eyes before Vincent reaches him, almost as a response to a command from Christian (the way it's edited)Well, my first questions were about how anyone could survive a plane crash like what flight 851 experienced, let alone not have any broken bones, etc.? A few scratches and bruises? What? Even Sayid questioned that in Season One...

About Vincent - He obviously understood what Smokey-as-CS asked him to do? How is that possible? Was Vincent "altered" along the way, before Walt got him? Didn't Bryan get him Vincent? I don't remember...

I might regret saying this later, but perhaps it has something to do with how "fresh" the body is? Yemi was almost completely decomposed, while Christian had died only a few days before. Perhaps Smokey is able to take on more and more of the host's characteristics if the vessel is not completely decomposed yet.Yes, something like that? Are some bodies more viable than others? How much about the person does Smokey or Jacob take on? I think he takes on their entire persona, but is still aware of what he wants to do and take on in this possible good vs. evil battle...

I just thought of something else. Since Jacob appeared to be trapped by the circle of ash, could a physical body be the only way it can get out of his Cabin? And could the Smoke Monster be bringing Jacob the bodies that he needs to leave his prison? That it is. I'm terribly vexed.Yes! I think that you are onto something major, CL. What if, all along, Jacob is what or whom is taking on these bodies from the Losties' memories? And...is Smokey his "assitant" or his nemesis? I'm pretty vexed, too...

I always had faith in Vincent, workingmom! But even I was absolutely surprised by this.Me, too...my dogs are pretty smart, but not THIS smart!

You guys convinced me! :biggrin: So now I need to know the what / who / how / why of the really big baddie(s) out there.I don't know, either, CL...who's with whom here? I wonder if Smokey and Jacob are on the same side...or not??? Maybe, both of them can take on personas? The CS that we saw in mobisode #13 was pretty nice, especially versus the Yemi version that killed Eko. Were two different "sides of the battle" behind these personas?

It would be interesting if the Island's properties allowed animals to be special as well.....(aka Vincent understands human speech, etc).

I wonder if and when we see what Locke saw that was so beautiful to him in S1 was his sister and his mother? I ask this question because what's the significance of the people tha saw something or someone that they shouldn't have and why those people?

First of all, I really hope to see two things:

1. IF they really are going to involve him in the Island's past, some backstory on Christian.

2. What Locke saw and if that... something "beautiful" told him to go save Jack cause he's hanging by a vine, ready to die at the bottom of a cliff.

The CS that we saw in mobisode #13 was pretty nice, especially versus the Yemi version that killed Eko. Were two different "sides of the battle" behind these personas?

The Christian we saw in WR is very... Mr.Roboto-like and in character for Smokey. He glares at Jack. This one has a personality. He's... Christian. He whistles at the dog and wistfully talks to himself, for God's sake! It's what struck me in that cap in the promo: he has facial expressions, a smirk, etc. That's very un-Smokey like.


Junie, Walt says Vincent was Bryan's dog. He probably had Vincent before he married Susan. I'd like to see a TLE connection with Vincent as a pup in some Dharma labs. Do we know what Bryan did for a living? Either way, the Vincent!cam was awesome.

Do we know what Bryan did for a living? Either way, the Vincent!cam was awesome.
Yeah, he was Susan's boss at the law firm. Since he seemed totally wigged-out by Walt, anything that happened to make Vincent special surely took place on the island.

Either way, the Vincent!cam was awesome.
Oh, it was beyond awesome.

I even think that I saw Vincent's mic (on his collar) when Christian was holding Vincent's head in both hands to pet him...LOL...

Now, we have to figure out if that was unintentional...or is it part of the plot? ;) It reminds me of Claire's note that Charlie may have palmed before releasing the bird...

:biggrin:

OMG...:malelove:

The Christian we saw in WR is very... Mr.Roboto-like and in character for Smokey. He glares at Jack. This one has a personality. He's... Christian. He whistles at the dog and wistfully talks to himself, for God's sake! It's what struck me in that cap in the promo: he has facial expressions, a smirk, etc. That's very un-Smokey like.



I see what you are saying. Christian in WR is similar to Yemi in COL. Very 'evil' feeling. Your right this Christian has more of a personality. I know they have told us time and time again that Christian is dead but I'm really starting to change my mind.
But if he is truley dead then I think we have 2 smokies on our hands. 1 good; 1 evil.

one of the significant things for me (well there were lots but i havent seen this mentioned yet) was that this wasnt a manifestation just for the benefit of the person to whom it would mean something - like christian appearing to jack, this was CS talking to a dog and the fact that it was CS would not mean anything to vincent, this was christian (and i still think he died) appearing to something that would not recognise him, if you see what i mean.
that takes the whole thing a lot further than eko seeing yemi, jack seeing christian etc.

This is just awesome/amazing/breath-taking, add a mesmerizing adjective, you're spot on! Makes us all forget the "filler" mobisodes. Frogurt? Anyone?! ;)

I can see why, if this "Vincent-centric" flashback was shot before (as rumored by TPTB) didnt air as the S1 cliffhanger. Can you imagine the theories that would have popped up? Cheese n rice, the Vinny POV was awesome. Especially the CS's shoes...Remember when Jack gets up and starts running through the bamboo before he hits the beach? Well, we see a white sneaker hanging from a tree. I always thought it was one of Charlie's shoes...Why was CS wearing white sneakers? I'd guess he'd be buried in formal attire, which should have included dress shoes and not sneakers...no??? Did Smoky use CS's body because it was the first dead body It came across? And yes, what part of Smoky (IF it is indeed a shape shifted Smoky...)was controlling CS? It didnt look like the one that impersonated Yemi...I'm wondering now if Smoky has a "bad twin". The big smoke vs the smaller one?

About the work Jack has to do vs what Locke has to do.

Perhaps I'm naïve, but I see Jack's work as already done. Jack had to save his half sister. First thing Jack does back at the beach is to help a guy who's leg is trapped underneath some wreckage. Next, he hears Claire yelling to help her. He goes over and instructs Hurley to help. He then helps Rose breathe again. (There's the funny I'll get a pencil" bit with Boone!) And then WHAMMO, he saves Claire/Aaron and Hurley from the falling wing! Had Jack been in the jungle, who knows what might have happened to those two. And yes, I know that if Jack didnt come out of the jungle, Claire and Hurley probably wouldnt have been there in the first place. But it's interesting to see what Jack did right after he saw Vincent and went to the beach. I'll be paying closer attention to Jack's action in the first few episodes of S1.

There's no indication that he got any "revelations" from the Island, or Vincent like Locke did for the hatch. But the implications are there:

Was Jack's work to save Claire and Rose? If not, than what is it? Can we speculate he didnt get it done from the S3 FF? Cheesus...

Locke's work also started early after the crash didnt it? And his work seems directly related to the inner workings of the Island, hand in hand with Smoky and Jacob. We have seen Locke interact with the Island/Smoky/Jacob more than any other Losties.

Locke's work seems to be in regards to the Island. Jack, I'm speculating, is/was supposed to help the people on the Island.

Sets up the "CS in the cabin" promo footage quite well. Ah folks, 4 more days before S4 starts.

Bring it on!
Eric.

I'm still not convinced about the whole Smokey/Reanimation thing. I have to watch TCL again...

I'm still not convinced about the whole Smokey/Reanimation thing. I have to watch TCL again...

Well, both Smokies are following Eko through the jungle in TCoL. If Yemi isnt a shape-shifting Smoky, than I'm flabbergasted...

Just my two cents, but if that scene (Y & E) wasnt an obvious Smoky/shapeshift, then TPTB are pulling our legs and making us deduce clues that are red herrings...Would they do that...??

Eric.

I don't know, either, CL...who's with whom here? I wonder if Smokey and Jacob are on the same side...or not??? Maybe, both of them can take on personas? The CS that we saw in mobisode #13 was pretty nice, especially versus the Yemi version that killed Eko. Were two different "sides of the battle" behind these personas?


I agree with that! It just came to my mind that Jacob could be a natural force (the beautiful thing that Locke saw, the original force of the island, it can take a human form and it's good), while Smokey - a technological force (created by Dharma, something artificial, it can take a human form, like Jacob , but it's evil). This two forces are trying to take control over the island, and they are in constant competition.
I think that Christian in the Mobi is Jacob, while Christian in WR is Smokey. Christian in WR tried to kill Jack. In the mobi, he tried to help him.
I remember, Smokey tried to kill Locke either, so it was an evil one.
I think that whispers are from Jacob, while metal sound is from Smokey...

one of the significant things for me (well there were lots but i havent seen this mentioned yet) was that this wasnt a manifestation just for the benefit of the person to whom it would mean something - like christian appearing to jack, this was CS talking to a dog and the fact that it was CS would not mean anything to vincent, this was christian (and i still think he died) appearing to something that would not recognise him, if you see what i mean.
that takes the whole thing a lot further than eko seeing yemi, jack seeing christian etc.
Except that there are probably more missing pieces (maybe not in the form of mobisodes), and maybe Christian has some special power or already has been working with Vincent previously....
Did Smoky use CS's body because it was the first dead body It came across?

Great thought...

About the work Jack has to do vs what Locke has to do.

Perhaps I'm naïve, but I see Jack's work as already done. Jack had to save his half sister.

And Christian's future grandson...

Oh, the mind boggles! :biggrin:

one of the significant things for me (well there were lots but i havent seen this mentioned yet) was that this wasnt a manifestation just for the benefit of the person to whom it would mean something - like christian appearing to jack, this was CS talking to a dog and the fact that it was CS would not mean anything to vincent, this was christian (and i still think he died) appearing to something that would not recognise him, if you see what i mean.
that takes the whole thing a lot further than eko seeing yemi, jack seeing christian etc.
This is a good point, BlackLotus. We saw one step down from this in White Rabbit, when the camera showed Christian standing behind Jack when Jack couldn't see him (when we heard the ice cubes tinkling in the glass as Jack sat by the fire). That opened doubt that seeing Christian was all in Jack's mind. But this goes further, since Vincent certainly couldn't have conjured him up (or could he? :biggrin: )

In terms of physical contact, I'm not sure if Kate's horse was an apparition or not, but she petted it.

One thing's for sure (at least to me): We're supposed to draw a connection between Walt's comment to Locke about getting up out of the Purge pit because he had "work to do" and CS's comment to Vincent that he needed to rouse Jack because he also had "work to do." Black & white. Good vs evil? Representative of two conflicting forces at work?

Another possibility: Jack and Locke aren't on "opposing teams." Their actions, though contradictory at times, lead both of them to the same goal. They both have "work to do", but not against each other. The struggle between the John & Jack is a red herring. IMHO, of course. ;)

Agreed. The use of exact wording "work to do" implies it coming from the same source and/or the "work" is the same. Interesting that the Man of Science left without finishing his work and now has to go back, while the Man of Faith has known for a while that he needs to stay till that work is done.

CL, I agree. But how he died, and why he's on the island point to some sci-fi or paranormal stuff.
We already knew *something* that looked like him is on the island, because we saw 'it' independent of Jack's viewpoint.
This mobisode confirms there's *something* there that looks like Christian, and it talks.
So I'm going with zombie, :biggrin: not because I'm a fan of zombie flicks or stories (I'm not), but because it fits the clues.

True. Whether he's dead, alive, smokey, an angel or whatever---this guy has some BIG signifigance to the "big picture." We've already seen him in four (that I remember) character's flashbacks. I'm sure we'll see him more that help us link all these character's, Christian, and the island together.

Perhaps I'm naïve, but I see Jack's work as already done. Jack had to save his half sister. ....Was Jack's work to save Claire and Rose? If not, than what is it? Can we speculate he didnt get it done from the S3 FF?


And Christian's future grandson...

Oh, the mind boggles! :biggrin:

Dang! Yes, it follows that ghost-Christian would know Claire's on the plane too.

I'll be waiting to find out whether the rest of Jack's work to be done is something beyond what he's been doing on the island; if there's something left incomplete (maybe that he doesn't even know about) that contributes to the mess he is in the FF. Right now it seems more connected to the lies they had to tell in conjunction with the rescue.

In terms of physical contact, I'm not sure if Kate's horse was an apparition or not, but she petted it.

And Sawyer could see it, for what it's worth.

After watching this mobisode, I'm reminded of Vincent almost "surveying" Jack, Charlie, and Kate as they go to the cockpit in the Pilot. It's almost as if he's making sure they're going or keeping watch... I had initially felt like Vincent's presence in that scene had no real significance, but... not so sure, now.

And Sawyer could see it, for what it's worth.

After watching this mobisode, I'm reminded of Vincent almost "surveying" Jack, Charlie, and Kate as they go to the cockpit in the Pilot. It's almost as if he's making sure they're going or keeping watch... I had initially felt like Vincent's presence in that scene had no real significance, but... not so sure, now.

I always wondered about Vincent's strange behavior in the pilot and thought he might have died in the crash and been a Smokey embodiment. But he was taking orders from the island, so that explains it, as well as his other "dog of doom" propensities.

Right now I'm going by the theory that "Jacob" is the spirit of the island, while "Cerberus" is a security system, either Jacob's "muscle" or one installed by Dharma--although that wouldn't explain why the folks in Otherville are afraid of it.

Cardie

This is a good point, BlackLotus. We saw one step down from this in White Rabbit, when the camera showed Christian standing behind Jack when Jack couldn't see him (when we heard the ice cubes tinkling in the glass as Jack sat by the fire). That opened doubt that seeing Christian was all in Jack's mind. But this goes further, since Vincent certainly couldn't have conjured him up (or could he? :biggrin: )

In terms of physical contact, I'm not sure if Kate's horse was an apparition or not, but she petted it.

yes. physical manifestations - yemi, dave, the horse, now christian.

another thing - we dont know whether vincent was dead or alive when he arrived on the island.

if they're dropping bombs like this in a mobisode then who knows whats going to happen in S4 ? :eek2:

Wow!

Just wow!

*insert blank look*

I can't believe you all think Christian is dead. It is so much easier for the writers to weave a convincing fake death story, as opposed to an elaborate ghost or vision story. That's what I love about this show... for the most part it stretches reality... not dive deep into fantasy.

1. IF they really are going to involve him in the Island's past, some backstory on Christian. I have always wondered if Christian was ever involved with the DI somehow, some way...that question has never left me...John Terry just has such a strong presence on the tv screen...I'm so glad that they cast him for that role...

2. What Locke saw and if that... something "beautiful" told him to go save Jack cause he's hanging by a vine, ready to die at the bottom of a cliff. That's a good possibility, Claudia. I'm also wondering if he saw some of his relatives and that's why it was so "beautiful" to him...

The Christian we saw in WR is very... Mr.Roboto-like and in character for Smokey. He glares at Jack. This one has a personality. He's... Christian. He whistles at the dog and wistfully talks to himself, for God's sake! It's what struck me in that cap in the promo: he has facial expressions, a smirk, etc. That's very un-Smokey like.Great comparisions, I think. How different could they be, when you think about it? Their facial expressions are different, even if it's subtle. CS in WR was emotionally and literally distant from Jack. He does seem cold in WR, but he did lead him to water, right?

Junie, Walt says Vincent was Bryan's dog. He probably had Vincent before he married Susan. I'd like to see a TLE connection with Vincent as a pup in some Dharma labs. Do we know what Bryan did for a living? Either way, the Vincent!cam was awesome.Yes...I loved it...I wonder if Vincent has been "altered" during his time with Bryan? I can't decide if the being on the Island heighted his naturally there special abilities (TLE had some discussion about the extreme intelligence of yellow labrador retrievers and how the work of that guy, Mandrake Wig, deal with it...) or if he was altered in a lab before or after he was born...

I see what you are saying. Christian in WR is similar to Yemi in COL. Very 'evil' feeling. Your right this Christian has more of a personality. I know they have told us time and time again that Christian is dead but I'm really starting to change my mind.
But if he is truley dead then I think we have 2 smokies on our hands. 1 good; 1 evil.Yes, I agree about the "battle" between good and evil starting to seem really possible...but...as always, who is who? Who's with whom?

one of the significant things for me (well there were lots but i havent seen this mentioned yet) was that this wasnt a manifestation just for the benefit of the person to whom it would mean something - like christian appearing to jack, this was CS talking to a dog and the fact that it was CS would not mean anything to vincent, this was christian (and i still think he died) appearing to something that would not recognise him, if you see what i mean.
that takes the whole thing a lot further than eko seeing yemi, jack seeing christian etc.I agree, BL. Why did it have to be CS that told Vincent to go wake up Jack? What did we see? Jacob being able to leave the cabin somehow because he had control of CS' body? Is that the only way that he can leave the cabin, if it is him, with another body? How does he get it? CS' body wasn't in the coffin, but a lot of people thought that it might have just fallen out of the coffin during the plane crash...I don't know if I can believe that anymore...

I love the white sneakers that Smokey/Jacob-as-CS was wearing...symbolic of him/them being the Good Guys? I think that I like the idea that it's Jacob in CS' body, but it's not CS alive...more than it being Smokey as CS...

Is it Jacob vs. Smokey and both of them can shapeshift? Is that where the lines are drawn? The CS that we saw in this mobisode was definitely nicer than the Yemi that we saw with Eko...that has to mean something...
100%
yes. physical manifestations - yemi, dave, the horse, now christian.

another thing - we dont know whether vincent was dead or alive when he arrived on the island.

if they're dropping bombs like this in a mobisode then who knows whats going to happen in S4 ? :eek2:We also don't know how or when Vincent became able to understand English so easily...:confused:

Wow... now that was something.

I saw Smokey at :15-:17, too. Punky and I replayed it a few times and there's what appears to be almost a funnel of smoke, funneling downward through the grass. The camera does cut away but I think it cuts just to cut and not because Vincent hears the whistle and turns around. The take away for me from this particular mobisode is that Christian is the Monster and as BL pointed out that it can take a form independent of whether the person it's form came from is present or not. That obviously has a lot of implications.

The other thing is that this essentially blesses Jack the same way Locke had been... I'd thought of them as two oposing forces, but perhaps the Science of one and the Faith of the other are necessary to achieve what the Island or The Monster wants, whatever that may be.

I always wondered about Vincent's strange behavior in the pilot and thought he might have died in the crash and been a Smokey embodiment. But he was taking orders from the island, so that explains it, as well as his other "dog of doom" propensities.

Right now I'm going by the theory that "Jacob" is the spirit of the island, while "Cerberus" is a security system, either Jacob's "muscle" or one installed by Dharma--although that wouldn't explain why the folks in Otherville are afraid of it.

Cardie

So, Vincent awakens Jack (or at least is supposed to) and leads him to the other survivors, several of whose lives he saves within the first few minutes. (Pilot, S1)

Vincent's disappearance sends Locke and Boone into the jungle looking for him, and leads them to find the newly amnesia'd Claire. (Special, S1)

Vincent also "leads" Shannon to Walt in MoSMoF. Walt giving Vincent to Shannon to take care of her, and then Vincent leading her back to Walt.. I think that might be significant. (MoSMoF, S2)

He "leads" Charlie to the last of the virgin Mary statues, and thus helps him be rid of his addiction once and for all. (Charlie tosses the rest of the statues into the ocean). (TM, S2)

Vincent seemed to know that Nikki and Paulo were still alive; he pulls the blanket off of them as if to try and tell Hurley, Sawyer and co that they're not dead. (Expose, S3)

He "leads" Hurley to the Dharma van, which leads to the rescue of Sayid, Jin, and Bernard. (TTID, TTLG, S3)

Hm.

So, Vincent awakens Jack (or at least is supposed to) and leads him to the other survivors, several of whose lives he saves within the first few minutes. (Pilot, S1)

Vincent's disappearance sends Locke and Boone into the jungle looking for him, and leads them to find the newly amnesia'd Claire. (Special, S1)

Vincent also "leads" Shannon to Walt in MoSMoF. Walt giving Vincent to Shannon to take care of her, and then Vincent leading her back to Walt.. I think that might be significant. (MoSMoF, S2)

He "leads" Charlie to the last of the virgin Mary statues, and thus helps him be rid of his addiction once and for all. (Charlie tosses the rest of the statues into the ocean). (TM, S2)

Vincent seemed to know that Nikki and Paulo were still alive; he pulls the blanket off of them as if to try and tell Hurley, Sawyer and co that they're not dead. (Expose, S3)

He "leads" Hurley to the Dharma van, which leads to the rescue of Sayid, Jin, and Bernard. (TTID, TTLG, S3)

Hm.
Hmmm, indeed.

So Christian is God and Vincent is Jesus (or an angel)? Or Christian is Jesus and Vincent is a disciple?

Oh, the metaphors...
100%
There are many Christian Shepherd fans who already think he is God. :biggrin:

Hmmm, indeed.

So Christian is God and Vincent is Jesus (or an angel)? Or Christian is Jesus and Vincent is a disciple?

Oh, the metaphors...
100%
There are many Christian Shepherd fans who already think he is God. :biggrin:

Christian is God, Jack is Jesus ( "Who appointed you our savior?"), VIncent is a disciple... Jacob is the Holy Spirit?

Jesus' Agony in the Garden is Jack's Agony in the Jungle ("WHERE ARE YOU?!", beating his coffin senseless.)

Yikes.

Christian is God, Jack is Jesus ( "Who appointed you our savior?"), VIncent is a disciple... Jacob is the Holy Spirit?

Jesus' Agony in the Garden is Jack's Agony in the Jungle ("WHERE ARE YOU?!", beating his coffin senseless.)

Yikes.
Yikes indeed...

C'mon, peeps...we can figure this all out (someday)... ;)

I kinda prefer that Vincent be God. :biggrin:

Yikes indeed...

C'mon, peeps...we can figure this all out (someday)... ;)

I kinda prefer that Vincent be God. :biggrin:

God is dog backwards! :-D

Christian is God, Jack is Jesus ( "Who appointed you our savior?"), VIncent is a disciple... Jacob is the Holy Spirit?

Jesus' Agony in the Garden is Jack's Agony in the Jungle ("WHERE ARE YOU?!", beating his coffin senseless.)

Yikes.

OMG! TOO FUNNY!!!! :biggrin:

I am blown away by the metaphorical and literal (not that we really know what the literal is on LOST)...

The LOST PTB and writers need a massive pay increase YESTERDAY already...

CL, don't you mean OMC? :biggrin:

Aren't there paintings of golden retrievers in Jacob's hut? So Jacob uses a fine looking corpse he finds in the jungle and uses Vincent to find Jack and get him to the beach on time to help the survivors, one of which is supposedly-Special Aaron.

We have reasons to believe Jacob hates Ben and knows he's up to no good so perhaphs he was trying to make sure the losties were well equipped to deal with the threat of the Hostiles, Ben in particular. We saw what happened on the Tailie side of the Island. Maybe it takes a good man, one who's thinking of the losties frist and makes a good shepherd, to protect them, just like Aaron must not be raised by an other, but kept in the presence of Claire's goodness. (The Island must have some weird Shephard fetish...)

God is dog backwards! :-D
That's so true!!! I didn't even think of that when I posted that, even though I knew it...

I've just always wanted Vincent to have a major role in LOST mythology...and since he was the second character introduced...it just seems possible...

Did anyone else think it weird that CS was so still? He gestures Vincent to come to him, but doesn't step forward at all. Perhaps there's a line that Smokey/Jacob/whoever cannot cross?

Does the Monster ever come down to the beach?

And there was that "Lost dog" poster that appeared in one of the S3 epis...

Hey, it's possible that Vincent is one of the keys...

Dang! Yes, it follows that ghost-Christian would know Claire's on the plane too.
I'll be waiting to find out whether the rest of Jack's work to be done is something beyond what he's been doing on the island; if there's something left incomplete (maybe that he doesn't even know about) that contributes to the mess he is in the FF. Right now it seems more connected to the lies they had to tell in conjunction with the rescue.

I'll go along that his work is incomplete. But, knowing Jack's character (He was willing to leave the Island with Juliet and COMEBACK to save the rest of the 815.), does he become aware ON the Island that he has work to do, or does something happen OFF the Island in a FF that sets him on his self-destructive path???

I can't believe you all think Christian is dead. It is so much easier for the writers to weave a convincing fake death story, as opposed to an elaborate ghost or vision story. That's what I love about this show... for the most part it stretches reality... not dive deep into fantasy.

What makes you think he's alive? I believe the coffin that was brought on the plane had CS in it. I mean, Jack went to Australia to recover his dad's body...So I'm guessing he identified him at the coroner's office in Sydney...no?

I have always wondered if Christian was ever involved with the DI somehow, some way...that question has never left me...

You know I'm with you on this issue Junie, we discussed this before. And if CS was a part of TDI, I wouldnt be surprised if Annabel Locke or Anthony Cooper werent a part of the original Dharma as well. Watch wait and see...Actually, scratch Cooper. I'm thinking the people we saw in the Santa Rosa Mental Institute already made trips to the Island (Annabel, Hurley, Libby etc) and it's a place to "readjust" to the trip back from the Island. That bastard Cooper couldnt be a part of them...I cant see it, but I could be wrong.


That's a good possibility, Claudia. I'm also wondering if he saw some of his relatives and that's why it was so "beautiful" to him...


Again, what's the most beautiful thing in the world Locke saw? That's a mistery I'm hoping we will get an answer for. I mean, that encounter litterally changed Locke. After that incident and Locke telling Jack and Kate he'd have followed Smoky in the hole changed the way Jack thought of John Locke, more than before he let Kate climb down the hatch hole.


Great comparisions, I think. How different could they be, when you think about it? Their facial expressions are different, even if it's subtle. CS in WR was emotionally and literally distant from Jack. He does seem cold in WR, but he did lead him to water, right?


Yes! Good point. Looked like the CS we saw in "The Watch" or the AA meeting scene, or trying to make Claire understand why he couldnt be around her or her mother for that matter. JT was excellent in those scenes, very warm and human. I agree the CS in WR was a silent and disturbing one.


Yes...I loved it...I wonder if Vincent has been "altered" during his time with Bryan? I can't decide if the being on the Island heighted his naturally there special abilities (TLE had some discussion about the extreme intelligence of yellow labrador retrievers and how the work of that guy, Mandrake Wig, deal with it...) or if he was altered in a lab before or after he was born...


I'm just going to go along the possible facts animals are more receptive to esp, or a 6th sense. Perhaps Vincent just picked up Jack's scent off of Christian? But between you and me, I hope there's more to Vincent than meets the eye...:biggrin:


I agree, BL. Why did it have to be CS that told Vincent to go wake up Jack? What did we see? Jacob being able to leave the cabin somehow because he had control of CS' body? Is that the only way that he can leave the cabin, if it is him, with another body? How does he get it? CS' body wasn't in the coffin, but a lot of people thought that it might have just fallen out of the coffin during the plane crash...I don't know if I can believe that anymore...


Like some have mentioned, one of the Smokies could be part of Jacob, and the other part is Dharma created, or the security system. Why are the others afraid of it? Well, if we believe the blast door map, perhaps after 1985 Cerberus system failure, it turned against TDI? Hence the sonic fence etc...???

I love the white sneakers that Smokey/Jacob-as-CS was wearing

Yeah, the sneakers got my attention right away. What can it mean...:confused:

[QUOTE]Is it Jacob vs. Smokey and both of them can shapeshift? Is that where the lines are drawn?

I'm starting to think the battle of Good vs Evil is between Jacob and Smoky. Why? Well, that's for another thread, but I have an idea. Jacob loves them, Smoky distrusts them. (Humans) Looks like one of the Smokies tries to understand the Losties (The scans of their memories) and the other one judges them...But why? And for who's benefit?


We also don't know how or when Vincent became able to understand English so easily...:confused:


I'm going out on a limb here, but I think Vincent took English lessons with Sun...;)

Rock n Roll Brotha!
Eric.

Does the Monster ever come down to the beach?

Some people think that it was actually Smokey that killed Scott/Steve. Jack saw "Christian" standing in the ocean, and all the Losties heard the monster in the jungle from the beach the first night that they crashed.

Stunned.





My first takeaway -- after retrieving my jaw from under my desk -- is that this is a very good sign for Season 4. We may get some serious revelations about Smokey this season -- if TPTB were willing to go this far in a mobisode, I think this may signal that just as the Others were the big secret in S2 and then S3 was all about delving into their little world, we may be delving into the history/background of the island now in S4, and starting to explain things like Smokey along the way.

Let's review the possibilities that exist as to Christian/Vincent:

(1) Both are flesh and blood. This requires Christian not to have died in Australia, and for him to be living somewhere on the island the past 4 months, but not working with Ben because surely Ben would have been consulting with him on how to manipulate Jack rather than trying to figure it out on his own. Unless...the scenes of Ben discussing his manipulation of Jack were just for Juliet's benefit. Remember, we did hear Christian's voice on that intercom. The more difficult problem if both Christian and Vincent are "real" is how Christian could command Vincent to go wake Jack up. I think this would require Vincent to have been "altered" in some way.

(2) Christian is real, Vincent is a manifestation. See (1) above as to Christian. As to Vincent, if he's a manifestation of Smokey (or Jacob or ), this scene would then suggest that Christian has some control over Smokey.

(3) Christian is a manifestation, Vincent is real. In this scenario, Smokey or whatever is able to communicate with Vincent -- maybe manifesting in human form so that Vincent isn't spooked, but then reinforcing his spoken words with some type of mental communication.

(4) Both are manifestations. This seems to be where lots of people are gravitating, but I don't love this because it seems pretty complicated to have too many entities as manifestations of Smokey or some other entity.

My vote's with #3. I think Smokey manifested as Christian because the body was on the plane and Smokey can "use" dead bodies in this way, more quickly than assuming shapes based on someone's memory. Vincent survived the crash in the same way that the human survivors did, but Smokey has been influencing Vincent's behavior.
100%

Great Mobisode!

I read through all these posts and with LOST being LOST who knows what this means!
But the first thing I thought of after watching it was remember in the season 3 finale, in the flash forward when Jack says to the other doctor "Go upstairs and get my father" (something like that?) - maybe that is a clue that Christian wasn't dead or something is about to happen when they get rescued?

great mobisode didn't think they would put a cliffhanger in a mobisode

I thought this would have been an innnnnntteresting cliffhanger to put in an actual episode during the season. If I were the writers, I might have saved this for one the next Jackback/forward, and just put "Ninety Whatever Days Ago" as a subtitle. THat would have blown us all away.

But it's substantially blowing me away right now, so I can't really complain.

ALSO: I'd be interested to know: does the white tennis shoe in the tree actually mean something? Is it Christian's? Do we have any clear enough screencaps of Christian's tennis shoes in WR or more recently in SIB?

I thought this would have been an innnnnntteresting cliffhanger to put in an actual episode during the season. If I were the writers, I might have saved this for one the next Jackback/forward, and just put "Ninety Whatever Days Ago" as a subtitle. THat would have blown us all away.

But it's substantially blowing me away right now, so I can't really complain.
LOL...I feel your pain. :)

I think maybe TPTB are spoon feeding us...however slowly. :mad: ;)

Great Mobisode!

I read through all these posts and with LOST being LOST who knows what this means!
But the first thing I thought of after watching it was remember in the season 3 finale, in the flash forward when Jack says to the other doctor "Go upstairs and get my father" (something like that?) - maybe that is a clue that Christian wasn't dead or something is about to happen when they get rescued?

Well, if Christian Shephard is alive in the flash forwards, it would seem to indicate that leaving the Island mirrors people's lives, and or alters reality previous to being exposed to the Island's powers.

If Christian is indeed alive, and upstairs somewhere in the hospital, could that mean Jack's the one who botched the operation instead of Christian? And Christian's the one who told on Jack to the medical review board? Could all the flashbacks have had reversed characters in them?

I mean, TPTB said the Losties werent the survivors they think they are...Aaaaaaaaaargh! Hair pulling moments up ahead...Unreal.

Ooooooooooooooooooh...You aint nothing but a hound dog, cryin' all the time!
Eric/cirE

Regarding Vincent being something other than a dog (uber-dog, Smokey, Christ, the Anti-Christ, Doubting Thomas, et al :rolleyes: ) it realy stands to reason that a dog would next sniff out another living thing nearby - Jack. His nose would take him there naturally, since he's used to the company of humans as his pack leader(s). (The Dog Whisperer has done his work on me, he has.)

ALSO: I'd be interested to know: does the white tennis shoe in the tree actually mean something? Is it Christian's? Do we have any clear enough screencaps of Christian's tennis shoes in WR or more recently in SIB?

I remember being puzzled in the 1st season re: the shoes. At the time I didn't believe they dressed corpses so completely for burial. I'd heard that at times they don't even put pants on the body!! So, I thought Christian had put on shoes he found. (Like they showed Kate doing in the same ep. Locke also had his shoes off in his first scene but I digress.) The good/evil or black/white allusions aside, it pointed me in the direction that Christian was 'alive' in some sense since he put on shoes he found so he could walk around comfortably. Otherwise, an undertaker randomly putting white shoes on a body is improbable to me.

LOL, it would be just like TPTB to substitute white shoes for white hats! (Does this mean that Charlie and his checkered shoes had a checkered past... or he was on the cusp of good/evil?)

Locke's looking into the eye of the island, beautiful.
Anyone ever see The Langoliers by Stephen King?

Someone had to stay awake while the plane flew into a time warp... he said it was beautiful.

What if, based on the premise of time travel, matter can exist under certain magnetic circumstances... the dead, the living, all in different states of transition.

Regarding Vincent being something other than a dog (uber-dog, Smokey, Christ, the Anti-Christ, Doubting Thomas, et al :rolleyes: ) it realy stands to reason that a dog would next sniff out another living thing nearby - Jack. His nose would take him there naturally, since he's used to the company of humans as his pack leader(s). (The Dog Whisperer has done his work on me, he has.)
So he was sniffing out Christian, then? :biggrin: Christian as a living human?

Or is Vincent sensitive to <gasp> ghosts and other paranormal entities and even mundane bad guys? Did he sniff out Christian but was then overpowered by Christian's words, touch and power?

Oh, the possibilities...

Well, if Christian Shephard is alive in the flash forwards, it would seem to indicate that leaving the Island mirrors people's lives, and or alters reality previous to being exposed to the Island's powers.

If Christian is indeed alive, and upstairs somewhere in the hospital, could that mean Jack's the one who botched the operation instead of Christian? And Christian's the one who told on Jack to the medical review board? Could all the flashbacks have had reversed characters in them?
This mobisode may put a new light on things, but in a recent intervew with EW magazine, Foxy said he had asked Damon about that line in TTLG where Jack says to go upstairs and get his father. Damon explained that someone as drugged out as Jack could get confused and think a dead relative was still alive, and that he'd seen/heard about it happening. I think for Jack in that state it could fit well - getting disoriented about the before & after.
100%
So he was sniffing out Christian, then? :biggrin: Christian as a living human? Well, the Vincentcam was just rambling around and he heard Christian whistle for him.

Or is Vincent sensitive to <gasp> ghosts and other paranormal entities and even mundane bad guys? Did he sniff out Christian but was then overpowered by Christian's words, touch and power?

Oh, the possibilities... I don't know the rules for ghosts and their corporeal manifestations. Does anyone have the manual? :biggrin:

Tramp...excellent write up.

I've gotta lean to #3 as thats the only thing in my mind that makes sense.

I mean, we see Vincent before the crash as Walts dog, and he continues to be Walts dog after the crash, so Vincent, really...is just a dog.

Christian, well, we saw him after the crash as some sort of apparation. Same with Yemi. And Bens Mom.

And maybe same with Dave. And in Boones weird hallucination of Shannon.

The question I would have regarding Smokie "being" these apparations, is that Smokie appears very violent at times, and it's been implied that it is a security system. We haven't seen Smokie "change" into anything...it's smokie...the gassy monster.

In all of the above "appearances" of people, they have come across as..well...helpful really.

Even in Yemi's case, he was there to "help" Eko by taking his confession. Eko though did not want it. Later he would be killed by the monster.

I think that the "apparations" are more linked to the whispers than to the monster.

After all...if Yemi = Monster...why didn't the monster just change it's form and kill Eko where he stood. Why would it walk away in Yemi form and then come back to kill Eko in smokie form?

If anything...I think this season is about the whispers.

did yime have have white tennis shoes?

I thought this would have been an innnnnntteresting cliffhanger to put in an actual episode during the season. If I were the writers, I might have saved this for one the next Jackback/forward, and just put "Ninety Whatever Days Ago" as a subtitle. THat would have blown us all away.

But it's substantially blowing me away right now, so I can't really complain.

ALSO: I'd be interested to know: does the white tennis shoe in the tree actually mean something? Is it Christian's? Do we have any clear enough screencaps of Christian's tennis shoes in WR or more recently in SIB?

Them damm tennis shoes....Hang on, I'm diggin' for screencaps...
White rabbit
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-218.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-226.html

Christian's expression looking back at Jack, also from WR
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-235.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-236.html

What happens to Jack after he runs after Chris in WR
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-360.html
Guess who saves the good Dr...Yep
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-368.html
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-369.html
Locke! Best buddies then!
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-379.html or the bad twins?

The shoe in the Pilot
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-22.html

I have not found a screen cap for the mobisode yet, but they do look quite similar now dont they...

Eric.

did yime have have white tennis shoes?

Not as I recall. He was dirty from falling on the runway in Africa though. It's seems that the person appears as you last saw them alive.

What is CS and Vincent are both part of one "thing".
Aren't dogs usually put in cages in a different part of the plane? How would Vincent have survived that? How would he have gotten out of the cage and out of the wreckage?
Smokey (or Jacob) , if we believe it can take the form of the dead (Ben's mom, CS, Yemi), could also have taken the form of Vincent.
If you're Smokey (or whatever) what makes more sense as a way to "infiltrate" the camp? By being a (presumably) dead guy (CS), a guy people assumed died during the crash (for instance, if he showed up as one of crash victims, someone would figure out their husband/wife/friend isn't acting "normally", OR would you show up as a DOG? Vincent is dead, part of smokey, and is surveying our Lost friends. CS, another manifestation of whatever this thing that manifests itself is, sent "Vincent" on his way

Them damm tennis shoes....Locke! Best buddies then!
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-47-379.html or the bad twins?
The mirroring of the body positions is great. Could be symbolic of their opposite perspectives on the island. And now we know they both have work to do!


The shoe in the Pilot
http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage-3-22.html

I have not found a screen cap for the mobisode yet, but they do look quite similar now dont they...

Eric. They do. The problem is, the shoe is hanging off the tree after Jack gets up, after they are seen on Christian's feet. So maybe it's not that shoe that Christian is wearing.

P.S. Oh how I love my avi that much better today - shoeless Jack/Foxy.

A piece of paper's easy enough to fake.


We saw Christian laying on a gurney, dead in the morgue when Jack went to ID him. Christian is DEAD, imho!

Fantastic missing piece. I do think that christian is dead and that manifestation was Smokey. I think Smokey knew that Vincent would respond best to a human, rather than a swirling cloud of smoke. ;)

Tramp...excellent write up.

I've gotta lean to #3 as thats the only thing in my mind that makes sense.

I mean, we see Vincent before the crash as Walts dog, and he continues to be Walts dog after the crash, so Vincent, really...is just a dog.

Christian, well, we saw him after the crash as some sort of apparation. Same with Yemi. And Bens Mom.

And maybe same with Dave. And in Boones weird hallucination of Shannon.

The question I would have regarding Smokie "being" these apparations, is that Smokie appears very violent at times, and it's been implied that it is a security system. We haven't seen Smokie "change" into anything...it's smokie...the gassy monster.

In all of the above "appearances" of people, they have come across as..well...helpful really.

Even in Yemi's case, he was there to "help" Eko by taking his confession. Eko though did not want it. Later he would be killed by the monster.

I think that the "apparations" are more linked to the whispers than to the monster.

After all...if Yemi = Monster...why didn't the monster just change it's form and kill Eko where he stood. Why would it walk away in Yemi form and then come back to kill Eko in smokie form?

If anything...I think this season is about the whispers.

In other words, Cerberus is acting as an arm of Yemi/CS/Kate's Horse/Walt, etc? Called upon to exact judgment when needed?

Sounds like it's time for another reminder:

TPTB have said-- on MANY occasions-- that Christian is dead. They have not minced words. They have not stuttered or wavered. They have not been vague. They have repeatedly emphasized this point emphatically and deliberately.

It simply HAS to be another explanation.

Yemi: Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. The work being done in this place is important, Eko. It is more important than anything.....

Maybe they all have important work to do. And who would it be more important to than themselves?

sorry to interrupt, but I haven't been able to see #13 all day. abc.com only seems to have 12. Did something happen or am I doing something wrong?

sorry to interrupt, but I haven't been able to see #13 all day. abc.com only seems to have 12. Did something happen or am I doing something wrong?

It usually doesn't go up on ABC until later in the week, lostorfound (Thursday? or maybe some time today? I can't remember...)

I always wondered about Vincent's strange behavior in the pilot and thought he might have died in the crash and been a Smokey embodiment. But he was taking orders from the island, so that explains it, as well as his other "dog of doom" propensities.

Right now I'm going by the theory that "Jacob" is the spirit of the island, while "Cerberus" is a security system, either Jacob's "muscle" or one installed by Dharma--although that wouldn't explain why the folks in Otherville are afraid of it.

CardieI keep wondering about TLE last year and the part of the story that focused on Mandrake Wig and the yellow labrador retriever stuff - how smart that he said that they were and the work that he was doing with them to find out more about their intelligence, capabilities, etc. Was Vincent ever a part of something like this work? We've wondered about Bryan and Bryan gave Vincent to Walt, right?

I'm also wondering about what side Smokey/Cerberus is on vs. Jacob. Are they on the same side? Why does Smokey/Cerberus seem somewhat violent, but when we see some of the people on the Island that shouldn't be there, like this CS or Ben's mother, they are trying to help the Losties?

There are many Christian Shepherd fans who already think he is God. :biggrin:Just love the actor and the character myself...

Regarding Vincent being something other than a dog (uber-dog, Smokey, Christ, the Anti-Christ, Doubting Thomas, et al :rolleyes: ) it realy stands to reason that a dog would next sniff out another living thing nearby - Jack. His nose would take him there naturally, since he's used to the company of humans as his pack leader(s). (The Dog Whisperer has done his work on me, he has.)I got the impression that Vincent knew exactly what CS was saying to him. How is that possible? Is it that Jacob-as-CS can communicate with anyone and anything or that Vincent is just really, really, really smart - or both?

In other words, Cerberus is acting as an arm of Yemi/CS/Kate's Horse/Walt, etc? Called upon to exact judgment when needed?Or is Cerberus working against Jacob? If the Others have been taught to look at Jacob as their Messiah-like figure in their lives and that he loves them, why are they so scared of Cerberus?

God=Island, Jacob=Jesus, the Losties and Vincent=the Disciples?

Yemi: Shh, shh, shh, shh, shh. The work being done in this place is important, Eko. It is more important than anything.....

Maybe they all have important work to do. And who would it be more important to than themselves?What is that work all about? The survival of humanity?

I don't know the rules for ghosts and their corporeal manifestations. Does anyone have the manual? :biggrin:

Well, not that I'm an expert, but if we go by other psychic shows and those specials on discovery and sci-fi, dogs are more sensitive to minute stimuli that we humans are unable to detect. For example, dogs know that an epileptic is going to get an attack before the patient has any inkling of it. A lot of them know when tsunamis and earthquakes are coming. They can sense sadness, depression, happyness and anger, all without ever uttering a word or hearing a word.

Using that as a springboard, many paranormal investigators (don't shoot the messenger, they do exist and have theories of their own) have the theory that dogs can sense, see, percieve and read energies that we humans can't; namely ghosts, spirits, lost souls....

So, for people who are in this field, it would be perfectly natural for a dog to interact with such entity, see it, hear it and feel it. Dogs also have a keen sense in spotting the alpha dog in any pack and when they've been raised by humans, they consider us part of a pack. Basically, they think we're dogs too. But, they can tell who wears the pants in human packs too. Take a dog to a house where he doesn't know anyone, and he'll immediately figure out the pecking order. He will then assess how far he can go against the alpha dog. Can he replace the alpha dog? Can he defy the alpha dog? How much trouble would he be in? He'll start disobeying commands and see how far he gets. Vincent does just that with Christian. He doesn't come right away, he assess the situation first. Then something tells him he better heed CS' wishes.

With Michael and Walt? it was all play, they were his equals, not alphas. So he never obeyed them.

I believe Jacob and Smokey are two separate entities, and Jacob might have found a way to use Smokey against the DI (even if it was a DI creation). The key question is when did Ben put that ash ring around Jacob's cabin? Could it be after he found out that Jacob had been traipsing around in Christian's body? And this is why we haven't seen Christian's body in a long long time? And this is why Christian is now in Jacob's cabin?

Meanwhile, Smokey has learned some tricks of his own, but with Jacob prisioner, who's controlling him? So, now Smokey has free reign to pass judgement and kill at will.

sorry to interrupt, but I haven't been able to see #13 all day. abc.com only seems to have 12. Did something happen or am I doing something wrong?

They will be up on ABC next Monday LoF. The people who have seen it have either accessed it exclusively in their Verizon phone or gone to a website that has an illegal link to a copy of the mobisode. We're not allowed to link illegal content, so, we can't tell you where to look.

I believe Jacob and Smokey are two separate entities, and Jacob might have found a way to use Smokey against the DI (even if it was a DI creation). The key question is when did Ben put that ash ring around Jacob's cabin? Could it be after he found out that Jacob had been traipsing around in Christian's body? And this is why we haven't seen Christian's body in a long long time? And this is why Christian is now in Jacob's cabin?

Meanwhile, Smokey has learned some tricks of his own, but with Jacob prisioner, who's controlling him? So, now Smokey has free reign to pass judgement and kill at will.
Great, great, great ideas, CL! Isn't there a rumor that Hurley sees Christian in Jacob's cabin?

Great, great, great ideas, CL! Isn't there a rumor that Hurley sees Christian in Jacob's cabin?

It's a pretty substantial rumor, since there are pictures of Christian sitting in what looks like Jacob's rocking chair. The reason this jaw-dropper is in a mobisode, I think, is because it's just whetting our appetite for some Jacob/Christian action in an aired episode.
Cardie

After the past few mobisodes I didnt expect much from the this last one, maybe just another random Arzt moment, but this one is mindblowing!! I almost cant believe they would put something so shocking in a mobisode, but I love it! This goes along nicely with theories about Christian and Jacob so hopefully we'll get into some more of that starting in 3 days!

What is that work all about? The survival of humanity?

These people have enough problems of their own to worry about saving humanity. What is most important to them is to save themselves.

Aaaaarrrrggggh!

That just short circuited my brain!!

This just is an analogy based off of thematic representations:

In The Cost of Living, Eko is confronted by Yemi who desperately tries to get Eko to confess, and when Eko refuses, Yemi departs. Only later is Eko assaulted by the Smoke Monster. Why wait?

Because Yemi had to go call for the monster.

Jacob had a painting of a dog in his cabin, that was a visual, thematic clue.

Thematically:

Jacob is Hades
Smoke Monster is Cerberus

Cerberus answers to Hades.

Christian in that mobisode represented Jacob's will.

Vincent represented the smoke monster, and likely was and always has been.

It's a pretty substantial rumor, since there are p