This is all well and good, but it seems we might be overlooking the POINT of these mobisodes.

I don't get if the missing pieces themselves all add up to some sort of revelation, or if they truly are just missing pieces of the individual episodes.

I am trying to find out where these missing pieces fit.

As quoted on the home site for Missing Pieces:
For each story, we leave it up to the fans to figure out where these pieces fit into the overall mythology.

I think some mobisodes are simply reminders and actually don't reveal anything new. However, a couple truly DO reveal new things.

So from the credits page, it would appear the chronological (not presentational) order of the mobisodes is as follows:

101- King of the Castle
What's New? Not much. The conversation provides a couple of key reminders. The sub was part of a deal that fell through - either by the fault of Locke, Ben or both. Additionally, Ben mentions to Jack that he might regret his statement about not wanting to return to the island.
[U]My Guess:[/U ] I'm going to throw the whole chess game out the window. I think it is irrelevant, but maybe not. Anyway, this just brings forth the possibility that the demise of the sub might not have been a sole quest by Locke. It also just shows irony about the "never say never" comment, since we know that Jack, indeed, later wants to return to the island. I also think this ties into mobisode 110, since Ben tells Jack that "a deal's a deal" and the title of mobisode 110 is The Deal. Throw in the conversation in mobisode 106 and I think we can nearly conclude the sub blew up at the hands of someone other than Locke.

102- Jack, Meet Ethan…
What's New? Ethan provides Jack a suitcase of meds that he supposedly found. He says his wife and child died in childbirth.
My Guess: First of all, knowing what we now know about Ethan… would YOU want to take any meds provided by him? Me neither. So, there could be a variety of instances where these meds were distributed to the Losties at various times that would have impacted their health in a variety of "experimental" ways. Sure, it might SAY tylenol, but a white pill, is a white pill to most people. Secondly, I think Ethan might be telling the truth about his wife/child. It was his little way of giving a hint to these people in the most harmless of ways.

103- Hurley and Frogurt
What's New? Introduction of new character: Neil aka Frogurt. Also that there is a competition between Neil and Hurley for Libby's affections.
My Guess: Neil might come into play in an S4 episode and this was a way of getting the "where did HE come from" out of the way. It also reminds us that Hurley DID have Libby's affection and that she probably knew him from some mental institution prior to the island.

104- Room 23
What's New? Juliet (and possibly other Others) have resistance to Walt being in their care, so much that she suggests just letting his father take him away.
My Guess: We see that Ben has an obsession with the paranormal. We see that Walt's presence makes others uneasy, and rightly so, since he is a bit of a bird man. I think this is one of the best mobisodes as it actually DOES give us something new that fills in a gap. This also ties into the conversation between Juliet and Michael in mobisode 106. Juliet is glad Michael will be getting the boat to take Walt away from the island.

105-Buried Secrets
What's New? We find out that there was some true Chemistry between Michael and Sun. The near kiss shows us that Sun is still not confident in her marriage. We've seen other scenes where Michael shows empathy for Sun, however, this is the first scene where he shows a feeling more than brotherly love.
My Guess: This might pair with Jin's Temper Tantrum. I'm not sure, chronologially, if the tantrum comes before or after this near kiss. So, if the kiss comes after, perhaps it is Michael's way of luring Sun away from a potentially dangerous husband.

106- Operation: Sleeper
What's New? We already knew, or strongly suspected, all that they talked about. She was there as a mole.
My Guess: This was just a way to confirm our suspicions. Yes, she was there to baby watch. This combines with mobisode 101 in letting us think that Locke might not have been the sole reason for the sub's demise. It also ties in a little with mobisode 102, since you'd think Jack might actually put two and two together. Ethan turned out to be an "Other." Ethan mentioned his wife and child died in childbirth, now Juliet is telling him Sun and her baby would die if they didn't get off the island. I'm also wondering if the opening pause on Jack's tatoo is there to remind us of his little stint with the tattooist.

107- The Watch
Side note - I couldn't help but instantly think of the scene in Pulp Fiction with Christopher Walkin...
What's New? Jack's watch is special.
My Guess: Ok, I have to admit, this one left me a little bewildered. I have no idea where this fits in. So, Christian got the watch from his dad on his wedding day, even though his dad didn't like Jack's mother. So now, he's giving it to Jack. Jack is as bewildered as I was. We know that Christian Shepherd is not faithful to his wife, so maybe this is a way of forshadowing to say that Jack's marriage will fail too. The phrase that I most noted, but still don't quite know what it could mean, is when Jack replies, "There's a lot of rocks out there…" meaning to throw, instead of getting married. Big reminder that Jack dragged his feet. This probably ties in with 113, but I'm not sure how. Maybe it'll turn out that the watch is the only way OFF the island. Probably Christian's Dad was part of the Dharma Initiative, and it was Jack's mother who lured him off the island.

108- Jin...Temper Tantrum…
What's New? Not much. We know Jin has a tantrum, and even if we didn't know he "felt alone," we all figured he pretty much did.
My Guess: I think that this mobisode was simply there to remind us that Michael, Hurley and Jin DID have a friendly relationship. It also reminds us that Jin has a violent past. It's ironic that he has this outburst in front of the subdued Michael and Hurley, yet we know that Jin's temper is no match for Michael's passion to find Walt.

109- The Envelope
What's New? Juliet has an older lady friend, whom she trusts. There's an envelope hidden in her utensil drawer that apparently has some clue as to why they are in "big trouble." The older lady suggests that Juliet and Ben have some sort of intimate relationship.
My Guess: I think Ben's x-rays are in the envelope. No big revelation here, other than Juliet leaks to the other "Others" that their supposed leader has a health problem.

110- The Deal
What's New? Combined with mobisode 104, we now know that Juliet wants Walt OFF the island. She admits to Michael that she made a deal with Ben to stay so that her sister would be okay. We already kind of knew this, but now it's straight from her mouth.
My Guess: Letting us know that Walt IS special, and that it was Juliet's request to get him OFF the island. This conversation happened AFTER Ben had been captured, so I'm almost wondering if it was entirely Juliet's plan to actually get Michael to release Ben and take Walt. Ben was away, so she took the opportunities presented to work to her advantage. She knew that Ben wouldn't disagree with the release of Walt seeing as though Juliet rescued him via Michael.

111- Tropical Depression
What's New? We find out why Arzt was on the plane… the meeting with his internet Aussie love didn't turn out so well, so he left early. He also lied about the monsoon season to get them to build the raft sooner.
My Guess: At first, I didn't think this was all that relevant. New, but not relevant. Now, I have a feeling, everything he said might come into play in S4. He mentioned a friend, Nick… have we heard that name yet? If not, I'll bet we will soon. I will also bet that we run into the Aussie Internet love who ordered the lobster too. I might even guess that his lies about the monsoon season might come into play as well. Shoot, Arzt's death might turn out to be the greatest sacrifice of the show!!

112- Arzt & Crafts
What's New? Sun almost reveals that she knows English (before she actually does) to Jin when she tells him Boone and Shannon are siblings. Arzt saw Jack yelling for his dad in the jungle.
My Guess: Couple of reminders here. The whole incestial thing between Boone and Shannon. The secret about Sun's English. Jack's island search for his father. I also see that this is yet another grouping (they probably shot all these scenes on the same day) of Michael, Hurley and Jin. This could tie in with mobisode 108, and maybe even 105.

113- So it Begins
What's New? Christian is not dead… at least Vincent knows otherwise.
My Guess: I think Christian and Ben know each other…. Well. Obviously this actually DOES provide a missing piece and might tie in with mobisode 107.

So, in summary, to me, it appears the only REAL Missing pieces we've been given are:

1- There is a strong possibility Locke did NOT blow up the sub, or if he did, it wasn't soley HIS idea.
2- Ethan's wife/child died in childbirth
3- New Character = Frogurt
4- Juliet REALLY didn't want Walt on the island even though Ben did. She played a major role in getting Ben rescued and Walt/Michael on the boat.
5- Michael and Sun had some intimate chemistry
6- Juliet has an envelope with a secret about them all being in trouble.
7- Arzt lied about the monsoon season, and he revealed that he was in AUS visiting an internet love interest. The meeting went sour because he used a picture of his friend Nick, instead of his own.
8- Christian isn't dead.

So do you think that Micheal and Walt's escape deal was all Juliette's idea, including killing anyone who got in the way? If so, then Juliette has some blood on her hands and might explain why she felt the need to turn to the losties side. I kind of get the feeling that she didn't turn entirely due to her conscience either, but due to her fear of smokey and the island punishing her.

Oh absolutely. Ben was gone. Juliet might not be "second in command," but she's up there in the ranks for sure. She didn't want Walt on the Island. She knew Michael was looking for him - AND that Michael had connections to free Benry. Thus, she used her brain, came up with a plan that would benefit Ben and get rid of Walt at the same time.

If you look at Mobisodes 104 and 110, it's pretty clear.

I don't think she cared how Michael freed Benry, but that he just DID. So, no, it's not her fault that lives were lost on the deal.

I don't think she fears SMOKEY either. She knows it is a security system. If you install a security system in your house, are you afraid of it? I'm sure she knows how it works.

Good points. But I do think Juliette is fearful about not being on the good side of the island, hence her alarm about Ben's tumor (on an island where nobody gets sick) and her telling Amelia that she thinks they are in big trouble. When going back to help the men shooting at the dynamite in the season finale, she tells Sawyer she has to go back because of Karma. I guess i'm looking for reasons Juliette might be worried about bad karma, and we have seen Smokie be the Executioner on the island.

I don't think she fears SMOKEY either. She knows it is a security system. If you install a security system in your house, are you afraid of it? I'm sure she knows how it works.
Smokey is like no security system I've ever seen, I also believe Smokey has been there for a long time longer even than Alpert probably, maybe Ben and the others really don't know what it is, juliette seemed genuinely scared of it. In the Dharma video that was playing when Ben first gets to the island, it says the high frequency sonar fence is protecting them from the islands abundant and diverse wild life, it sounds like Dharma didn't even know what smokey was, maybe no one does.

I think all -- or at least most -- of the mobisodes are metaphors for Jacob, who was psychic like Walt, may be the real father of baby Kwon, has difficulty communicating like Jin, etc., etc..

Wacky theory time - I think Jack, back on the island in a future loop through time, is the one that blew up the sub.

Questions this theory answers:
Why wasn't Locke wet after blowing up the sub? He boarded the sub, but bumped into a FutureJack. FJ told Locke that the Losties weren't meant to leave the island. FJ took Locke's TNT, told Locke to abandon ship, and then blew the sub. Heck, this doesn't have to be Locke's first encounter with FJ. This could be the reason why Locke has always insisted the Losties weren't meant to leave the island.

Clues:
The Watch - Christian gives Jack a watch. A reminder to the audience that time is a key factor in lost. In the FF last season, we saw FutureJack insist the Losties never should have left the island. FJ kept saying he wanted to go back. Go back to the island? Go back in time and change things? Hmm....

King of the Castle - Jack and Ben talk about Jack leaving the island. Ben says he intends to honor his promise, but that if the Island doesn't want Jack to leave, then Jack won't. Jack says "So the ISLAND is going to sink the sub?" Ben just laughs. And then tells Jack that at some point in the future, if Jack happens to get off the island and want to return, that Jack should remember their conversation. A conversation about how the sub SINKING would prevent Jack from leaving the island.

Operation: Sleeper - Two things stand out in my mind about this episode. First, Juliet casts a lot of doubt on the idea that Locke blew up the sub. Second, when the episode starts, the camera is focused on Jack's tattoos. We can clearly see that more work has been added to the tattoo beyond what Jack had done in Phuket. In another episode, Isabelle even jokes about Jack giving himself "5 stars."
What if Jack uses the tattoo as a marker of how many times he's been through the continuity loop on the island? He could add something to it every trip through. This way, if he bumps into any versions of himself on a particular iteration through time, he'll be able to know at which point in time the other FJ originates from.

And So It Begins - Christian tells Vincent to go wake Jack up because "He's got work to do." What if this was Jack on another time loop? The work this particular Jack needs to do is prevent the Losties from getting off the island.

If FJ is the one who blew up the sub, it would imply that FJ traveled back to the island any number of times, to repeatedly thwart the Lostie's efforts at being rescued.

There are holes a plenty in this theory, which is why I'm labeling it as wacky. But it would answer some questions that the Missing Pieces raise.

I believe the mobisodes worked on many different levels to the different kinds of fans LOST has. For example, I have a friend whom I know will enjoy "Hurley and Frogurt," "Buried Secrets," and "The Watch" more than any of the other mobisodes. That's because she has more interest in the character drama of the show.

So to that end, I don't think that many of them have anything of value to say. As you say, they serve more as thematic reminders.

I think these are all moments that happened before the latest crash of 815.

In The Watch, Meet Ethan, King of the Castle... Jack knows what's going on.
Buried Secrets is a training exercise for finding apocryphal material.
Frogurt, Golf, Depression, Arzt - comic relief.
Sleeper, Envelope, Deal - Julie was innocent in another life
Room 23 - Where Walt developed his powers. This happened before the "kahuku bird."
So It Begins - It's all a conspiracy.

See, I can take your points, but I wouldn't buy them. I don't believe there is any sort of time travel in the show, so that blows out most of this loop-i-ness. But that's okay, I've been proven wrong with this show on multiple occasions.

I got to thinking about the "security system" comment I made, and I'd take a little of that back, because wasn't it Rousseau who mentioned that it was a security system, not Juliet? Did they both? The question of the episode where she put in a code was what was the fence for.. to keep the smoke out, or keep the people in? That was never ultimately clear. I STILL think it is a manipulation of magnetic filings because one of the Dharma videos shows an experiment with floating magnetic particles. Now, how this goes into this image showing of people's past, I don't quite know, but a lot can be done with lighting, so I still think is more of a magic trick than something paranormal.

No, I also have to admit that the focus on Jack's tattoos seemed oddly deliberate, and I also have to admit that it seemed to be bigger. This issue can be easily solved by making or finding a couple of screen captures, but I have neither the time, nor facilities to do this. Maybe someone else can look into it. If they had changed, I'd rather think it was because Jack had the secret ability to get on/off the island, rather than travel through time.

I've had a lot of fun with these mobisodes. It's been a great way to get revved up for Wed/Thurs. Now, how much do you want to bet that they'll weave in these mobisodes on Wednesday's review?
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Jack's Tat: http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Jack%27s_Tattoo Now, I'm thinking it's just always been there, but just never brought to the forefront much.

I don't believe there is any sort of time travel in the show, so that blows out most of this loop-i-ness.

Is that an a priori assumption, or just wishful thinking?

Locke: It's called a trebuchet, Boone, because it's a trebuchet.

Boone: I don't get you, man. One minute you're quoting Nietzsche, now all of the sudden you're an engineer.
To what extent can truth endure incorporation? That is the question; that is the experiment.

There are no facts, only interpretations.

Man has an invincible inclination to allow himself to be deceived and is, as it were, enchanted with happiness when the rhapsodist tells him epic fables as if they were true, or when the actor in the theater acts more royally than any real king.

"I did that," says my memory. "I could not have done that," says my pride, and remains inexorable. Eventually — the memory yields.

And when you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Some are born posthumously.

One must pay dearly for immortality; one has to die several times while still alive.

The future influences the present just as much as the past.

What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: 'This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more' ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: 'You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine.'

All truth is crooked, time itself is a circle.

- Friedrich Nietzsche

I got to thinking about the "security system" comment I made, and I'd take a little of that back, because wasn't it Rousseau who mentioned that it was a security system, not Juliet? Did they both? Danielle: We're safe now.
Kate: What was that thing?
Danielle: It's a security system.
Jack: Security system? What does that mean?
Danielle It's purpose is that of any security systems... to protect something.
Kate: Protect what?
Danielle The Island.

Rousseau knows exactly what she's talking about.


The question of the episode where she put in a code was what was the fence for.. to keep the smoke out, or keep the people in? Both.


I'd rather think it was because Jack had the secret ability to get on/off the island, rather than travel through time.Why?

very good thoeries and i love the quote :)

I'm so shallow. I don't get the point of your philosophical quote. Try another.

I have faith in the show. Whenever they give an actual answer to a question, it is usally a plausible one. As in... it could actually happen. It might be a BIG stretch of the truth, but it could happen.

Now, I won't go so far as to say that time travel, ghosts and resurrection couldn't happen, but I just think that would be a cop out. It's an easy solution, and I think our writers are smarter than that.

It's like when my 3yo asks me, "Mama, why dogs have tails?" I say, "Because God made them that way." It's a cop out - an easy answer - a basic one. That's fitting for a 3yo, but I have a hard time believing that the writers would use that tactic with dedicated viewers of the show. I just can't see them saying... yeah, the smoke... it's a ghost. I guess that would make me a woman of Science, now wouldn't it? ;)

I did a little research and disproved the theory that Jack's tattoo was getting bigger, so linking that to a clue that he time travels and uses it as some sort of incrementor is now moot. I don't really think Jack has a secret way on/off the island, but just said that because I'd rather believe that than him time traveling. Probably not the best example.

I really can't wrap my head around this Jack's tattoo is ?a special way for him to get on and off the island? If I read that correctly, pass that to the left hand side, mon.

And unfortunatly (I've never been able to spell that word) time travel on teh island has happened at least once. Desmond did travel back in time. That was confirmed mutliple times. Can other people do it? Thats the main question.

I love the quote by the way...really makes you think don't it. I know if someone told me the truth, "life is but a circle that is constant. Once you die, you are reborn over and over again" I would pound the ground with my fists too...just CRUCIAL.

I think ignorance can really be bliss...

I'm so shallow. I don't get the point of your philosophical quote. Try another.

Hmmm, from the man who brought us 42: Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly-so.


I just can't see them saying... yeah, the smoke... it's a ghost. I guess that would make me a woman of Science, now wouldn't it? ;)

Yes!

Are you familiar with Quantum Physics? At the quantum level, pairs of subatomic particles wink in and out of existence. Some particles can even go back in time. Funny business, how we conceptualize the Universe.

If a binary pair of particles encounters the event horizon of a black hole, something very strange happens. One particle succumbs. The other one shoots away from the black hole at tremendous speed. Fancy that. Even more funny, it doesn't have to be particles. A binary pair of full-blown stars will behave in exactly the same fashion.

The mythological story of twins Castor and Pollux, for whom the constellation of Gemini was named, share a similar story (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castor_and_Pollux#Mortality_and_immortality)...

Claire: Are you a Gemini? (White Rabbit)

Kate gives Claire a very unpleasant look when offered her astrological chart...

Why wasn't Locke wet after blowing up the sub? He boarded the sub, but bumped into a FutureJack. FJ told Locke that the Losties weren't meant to leave the island. FJ took Locke's TNT, told Locke to abandon ship, and then blew the sub.
:confused: Locke WAS wet after blowing up the sub...

Room 23 - Where Walt developed his powers. This happened before the "kahuku bird."

I don't know what the kahuku bird is, but it definitely happened after a bird hit the window at Brian Porter's house when Walt got upset.
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:confused: Locke WAS wet after blowing up the sub...

Yeah I meant to correct that too. I think the question TPTB wanted us to ponder was not who blew up the sub, but whether Locke blew up the sub.

The question of the episode where she put in a code was what was the fence for.. to keep the smoke out, or keep the people in?
There was something said in Ben's childhood fb about everyone being given the code, so how would it keep them in? And why?
The implication was they normally wouldn't go outside the fence, at least not far, since they were in danger there - reportedly from "wildlife", and the natural conclusion for viewers was "wildlife" meant Smoky. That's kind of silly when you think about it, since Smoky doesn't seem the type to be able to punch in numbers...

No, I also have to admit that the focus on Jack's tattoos seemed oddly deliberate, and I also have to admit that it seemed to be bigger. This issue can be easily solved by making or finding a couple of screen captures, but I have neither the time, nor facilities to do this. Maybe someone else can look into it. If they had changed, I'd rather think it was because Jack had the secret ability to get on/off the island, rather than travel through time. I'd be embarrassed to admit how much time I spent looking for evidence that Jack's tattoos don't match up with either his island or his fb's.
The 5 & stars, and the chinese characters are consistent with the chronology we've assumed. Admittedly that chronology is flaky, since we don't know when he got the 5 and stars, but both tats are in every on-island scene that shows his upper outer arm, so the tats don't support any theory that he's come-and-gone on the island in between getting them. The only time we've seen one (chinese characters) w/o the other (5 & stars) was right after Bai Ling did the chinese characters.

The inner forearm stars are more enigmatic - they're highly visible in some episodes and not at all visible in others. But there's no chronological pattern that I've been able to discern.

All that said, I think the tats - especially the 5 & stars - will eventually show us that Jack's been places (the island) at times we haven't realized (prior to 9/22/04). I've said loudly and frequently he was a hatch bunny, pre-Desmond. I don't for a moment think he's come-and-gone since the crash.
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If a binary pair of particles encounters the event horizon of a black hole, something very strange happens. One particle succumbs. The other one shoots away from the black hole at tremendous speed. Fancy that.

Quantum physics says particles behave unpredictably, period. Who stated that that pairs always behave as you describe, upon encountering a black hole?

Go back and see my edit to one of my original posts. Jacks Tats have been the same throughout the show. There have been shots even in S1 where all his Tats are shown, so nothing has changed. They are now irrelevant to this topic.

I'm not saying that time travel isn't possible... but I just don't think it will be applicable in this show. Additionally, I didn't remember actually inferring that Desmond actually TRAVELED through time, only that he had some sort of telepathic powers to see the future/past. I have to admit that I'm a little foggy on that and my S3 DVDs haven't come in the mail yet.

Maybe not time travel, but I really think there's a time loop going on that the losties aren't aware of yet. There's too many time references to ignore! The woman Des talks to in his flashback/out of body experience is wearing an ouberous pendant, the same bunny existing in the same room at the same time in the Orchid video, Ben telling Jack that all this has happened before and will happen again. Probably more too that I'm not thinking of. I kind of feel like the bunny thing in the Orchid video is really really key to something but I'm not sure what. The cassimir effect Marvin was talking about appeared to provide a way to either send people/rabbits back in time or a way to pull people/rabbits back from the future. Tie that in with the numbers and the Valenzetti Equation describing when the world would end, and my guess is that the world is coming to an end, possibly due to events on the island like possibly the new visitors getting control of the island's powers. And somebody, maybe the daddies (Paik, Hanso, Widmore, Shepard), keep trying to delay the inevitable demise of humanity by sending specific people back to fix things. If the island augments your natural abilities and Jack is the great problem solver than maybe Christian has molded Jack to become the person he is for the purpose of cleaning up the mess and saving the world. But is the future already determined and will the universe course correct itself? I mean, it really seemed like Charlie was meant to die no matter what anyone did, could it be that in every loop on the island they fail to change events significantly so they keep trying again?

Maybe not time travel, but I really think there's a time loop going on that the losties aren't aware of yet. There's too many time references to ignore!
Time references don't necessarily point to time travel or a time loop. Imo, they point to a time *discrepancy* of some sort on the island, but no looping, and no time travel, in the commonly used sense.
I kind of feel like the bunny thing in the Orchid video is really really key to something but I'm not sure what. The cassimir effect Marvin was talking about appeared to provide a way to either send people/rabbits back in time or a way to pull people/rabbits back from the future. There are other scientific, pseudo-scientific, and science fiction theories that could account for the bunny experience and the reference to the "casimir-like" effect.
For the bunny, I favor the idea of mirror-matter, with no time travel involved: if particles encounter their counter-particles (matter encounters antimatter), things go boom.
There are many many possibilities for the "casimir-like" reference; time travel is only one of them.

Room 23 - Where Walt developed his powers. This happened before the "kahuku bird."I don't know what the kahuku bird is, but it definitely happened after a bird hit the window at Brian Porter's house when Walt got upset.I don't know what the kahuku bird is, but it definitely happened after a bird hit the window at Brian Porter's house when Walt got upset.

Depends on how you conceptualize time.

The man on the other end of the satellite phone was named Minkowksi. One famous Minkowksi is a scientist who developed a way of conceptualizing time as a function of space, of all of time existing at once. At the quantum level, time is more like Minkowski space than an arrow. Minkowski's nephew, another Minkowski, was a famous astronomer who studied supernovae and their radio characteristics.

Astronomy is built on mirrors.
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Quantum physics says particles behave unpredictably, period. Who stated that that pairs always behave as you describe, upon encountering a black hole?

Each individual measurement is unpredictable, but the probabilities are amazingly accurate, more accurate than any other science ever invented.

I believe the source for describing binary particle systems at black hole comes from Kip Thorne, "Black Holes and Time Warps." Thorne is a well respected theoretical physicist. However, I haven't vetted that description of binary particles at event horizons personally, it comes from HearingVoices over in Theories.

Mind you, these aren't ordinary pairs of particles (or stars, for that matter). I'm talking about binary systems, where the two entities rotate around their common midpoint of gravity.

By the way, when John pulls Jack up from the cliff in White Rabbit and they fall into a heap on the ground (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/gemini1.jpg)? That image is practically synonymous with the typical depiction of the constellation Gemini (http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/jane_eris/gemini2.jpg).

Jane, I've a very tenuous and rudimentary grasp on quantum physics.
I've not really encountered anything on binary particles, though. Can you give me a layperson's description, or point me to a link?

(I've got several books at hand, but the indices don't show anything for binary particles.)

Time references don't necessarily point to time travel or a time loop. Imo, they point to a time *discrepancy* of some sort on the island, but no looping, and no time travel, in the commonly used sense.

Wow, you really don't like the idea of multiple iterations! I don't blame you. Makes for some nasty headaches.

According to Hawking, matter can't travel in time, but matter-less energy (such as light, which is a form of electromagnetic radiation) could theoretically make the jump. In other words, "information" could travel in time, but in a deterministic universe it wouldn't change events. In a probabilistic universe, the picture might be different. Depends on one's model for conceptualizing the Universe.

Emotions do not carry any mass - they manifest in our brains at the conscious level as no more or less than an electromagnetic field, as far as I can tell from McFadden's theory of electromagnetic consciousness, which is also based on Quantum Physics.


There are other scientific, pseudo-scientific, and science fiction theories that could account for the bunny experience and the reference to the "casimir-like" effect.
For the bunny, I favor the idea of mirror-matter, with no time travel involved: if particles encounter their counter-particles (matter encounters antimatter), things go boom.
There are many many possibilities for the "casimir-like" reference; time travel is only one of them.

The Casimir Effect describes what happens at the subatomic level - at the level of Quantum Physics. "Exotic Matter with negative energy density is required to stabilize a wormhole (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wormhole). Morris, Thorne and Yurtsever pointed out that the quantum mechanics of the Casimir Effect can be used to produce a locally mass-negative region of space-time, and suggested that negative effect could be used to stabilize a wormhole to allow faster than light travel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster_than_light_travel)."

Faster than light travel brings "time travel" paradoxes into play, of which the twinned bunnies might be an example. Depends on how far down the rabbit-hole/wormhole you want to travel.

At issue is whether the Universe is fundamentally deterministic (as described by Classical Physics) or whether the Universe is fundamentally probabilistic (as described by Quantum Physics). If the latter is the case, all you need is a Heart of Gold to make Lost work - just plug in your Infinite Improbability Drive to a really hot cup of tea (and no tea!) and let it take care of the rest, more or less - though in the Heroic Quest, only Love should prevail.

Mysterious Whale: Why am I here? Who am I? What is that coming to greet me?
Bowl of Petunias: Oh no, not again.

What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more" ... Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: "You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine."
- Nietzsche

What sounds better, Eternal Return or Oblivion?
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Jane, I've a very tenuous and rudimentary grasp on quantum physics.
I've not really encountered anything on binary particles, though. Can you give me a layperson's description, or point me to a link?

(I've got several books at hand, but the indices don't show anything for binary particles.)

HV recommends the Kip Thorne book, and I'd vouch for any of HV's recommendations. That one is really on the ball. The funny thing is that HV made his post right on the heels of an episode of The Universe which I saw on the History Channel, where it described the behavior of "binary stars" at the event horizon of a black hole in exactly the same way that HV described "binary particles". That kinda blew me away!

Anyways, I'll see if I can come up with a link for you!

My grasp of the subject is pretty abysmal, by the way. I sort of get it, sort of don't? Because it doesn't really make sense at all when it comes to our own experience of reality. Of course, our experience of reality is compromised by the limitations of our embodiment, so such abstract things can only be understood in metaphors which can translate them to our limited frame of conceptualization.

The way I understand it, all the probabilities at the quantum level exist simultaneously, and together they form a "wave function". It isn't until an observation is made that the wave function "collapses" and a single probability emerges at the expense of all others.

I think we've seen examples of this in the show. Take Dave and Hurley at the cliff, where Dave tries to talk Hurley into making the jump. Dave eventually makes the jump, and right after he disappears we see Libby show up. Libby is our observer, and her observation "collapses the wave function" which previously had allowed both Hurley and Dave to exist simultaneously. Funny, this analogy is also apt in describing a binary system at the event horizon of a black hole.

Here are a few other examples of superposition in the show.
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x06-house/normal_house635.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season1/1x06-house/normal_house636.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x06-ido/2/normal_ido-cap0345.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x06-ido/2/normal_ido-cap0353.jpg
http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x06-ido/2/normal_ido-cap0363.jpg
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"Free Will" and "Choice" are highly touted on the show. It's presented with such ambiguity that many different interpretations may apply. If the creators are going to finish the show properly, it should still be open to at least two if not more different interpretations. This gives us more choice and free will in deciding what the show means.

I think the show is deliberately anti-canonical.

So where do we put the Missing Pieces? It depends on how we conceptualize the story - and that in part depends on how we conceptualize Time and the Universe, as well as our own particular predilections for interpreting Fiction. People who choose to see only a single timeline will put the pieces in a single timeline. People who choose to see multiple iterations may try to figure out in which "layers" the pieces might fit as well.

These interpretations need not be antithetical to each other.

Wow Jane, fun read - and lots to mull over.

I've always favored the idea that 'information' - and not people - might be passing through a wormhole to-and-from the island, that's the cornerstone of a couple of my theories involving the island being in a different time-frame than the world-in-general.

I'd still like to read up on binary particles, haven't been able to find anything.

I know you're fond of mirror-matter theories (it's my favorite explanation for the island). The June 2005 edition of Scientific American, if you can get your hands on it, carries a great article on it. I have it on my 'puter, obtained it legally, but can't legally link to it or post the entire thing. Here's a link to the opening snippet, (http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=making-cold-antimatter)though, which is what drew me into the article. The rest of the article is fascinating, describes how the CERN collider/accelerator has been used to create anitmatter (mirror matter), and I thought ...hmm, some of us have long speculated that the Swan, and maybe the entire network of hatches, is a sort of collider.

And here's one of my favorite parts:
To understand more precisely what CPT symmetry is and why it is so important, split it into the individual component parts that the three letters stand for: charge reversal, parity inversion and time reversal. Charge reversal is the replacement of all particles with antiparticles. Parity inversion is essentially reflection in a mirror (more exactly, it is inversion of space about a point). And time reversal means playing the "movie" of reality backward.

My spec is that the island itself is a mirror-world, but that that there's only one of each human. The Losties crossed into that world, they only exist in one world or the other, not both at once. For now, that's the mirror world island.

My spec is that the island itself is a mirror-world, but that that there's only one of each human. The Losties crossed into that world, they only exist in one world or the other, not both at once. For now, that's the mirror world island.

Wow, we are so close in our thinking! I'm on the other side of the fence, i think there are mirror-twin people as well as a mirror-twin world, and the Island is a nexus, a dark tower. The time-reversal business is what causes "fate". Not a good thing, not if you're into free will.

The people become "conjoined mirror twins", with two consciousnesses residing in a single avatar. The "mirror-twin" knows the future, while the twin from our universe knows the past.

I also think the Island is self-conscious, and trying to communicate with us. That's why there's even a show at all.

jane

So, in summary, to me, it appears the only REAL Missing pieces we've been given are:

1- There is a strong possibility Locke did NOT blow up the sub, or if he did, it wasn't soley HIS idea.
2- Ethan's wife/child died in childbirth
3- New Character = Frogurt
4- Juliet REALLY didn't want Walt on the island even though Ben did. She played a major role in getting Ben rescued and Walt/Michael on the boat.
5- Michael and Sun had some intimate chemistry
6- Juliet has an envelope with a secret about them all being in trouble.
7- Arzt lied about the monsoon season, and he revealed that he was in AUS visiting an internet love interest. The meeting went sour because he used a picture of his friend Nick, instead of his own.
8- Christian isn't dead.

Hmm.

1. Based on the mobisode we know no more then before, it was pretty clear from the episode "The man from Tallahase" that Ben put the idea of blowing up the sub into Lockes head.
Did he really blow it up though...?
One thing cannot be explained away, and thats the fact that Locke was soaking wet right before he supposedly blew up the submarine.

6. That envelope is obviously Bens xrays showing that he has cancer, on an island where noone is supposed to get sick thats very disturbing, since it might in fact mean that the island wants them all gone.

8. We know nothing of Jacks father, this is not the first time we have seen him, nor is it the first time we see dead ppl walking on this island.
Its easy to assume that it might be the monster, but then again we have no proof of that either.


-Exodus

You guys are right there's a lot of possibilities and I've opened my mind to the mirror-universe ideas. The more I think about it, the more I think time-loops might just be too simple an explanation for Lost next to the more exotic ideas you guys have brought up. Cheers!

...113- So it Begins
What's New? Christian is not dead… at least Vincent knows otherwise.
My Guess: I think Christian and Ben know each other…. Well. Obviously this actually DOES provide a missing piece and might tie in with mobisode 107.

So, in summary, to me, it appears the only REAL Missing pieces we've been given are:

8- Christian isn't dead.


I'm not sure if it's still considered a spoiler so, I'll be safe.
Christian Shephard is dead. Darlton have confirmed it in their April 20, 2007 podcast, I even have the transcripts for it.

Damon: Number three: Please confirm again that Christian Shephard is dead. I'm so tired of people who believe the opposite.
Carlton: Well, you know, for the those of you who believe the opposite, you're wrong. For those of you who believe Christian Shephard is dead, you're vindicated.
Damon: Wow, another definitive answer.
Carlton: I'm not messing around today.
Damon: Of course, Carlton might be talking about the word dead in a way that you don't fully understand yet. I feel like I had to do that disclaimer.
Carlton: If dead means dead in the conventional narrative sense.
Damon: Assuming by dead you mean rotting and decomposing.
Carlton: Exactly.

Yikes!:shocking: