Didn't like the ep? Tell us why. :biggrin:






This thread is for those that did NOT like the episode. If you liked the ep please visit the "Loved it!!!" thread. If you want to debate the episode (likes and dislikes), then please take your comments to the "Rate The Episode" thread or The "Discuss The Episode" thread. Any off topic posts will be deleted and possibly warned or given infraction points.

Ok, I gotta say it. These courtroom scenes are just awful. Plus, someone's gotta come up with a good reason why Kate's trial would be in LA.


What??? The writers totally botched this trial stuff. For one thing, the way trials work is that the prosecution goes first, and then the defense. There is no way that Jack would testify for the defense before the prosecution finished it's case. Also, Kate's mother doesn't testify and suddenly they give her 10 years probation? That's it??? For murder, bank robbery, arson, plus more? No video of the bank robbery? There has to be more evidence against Kate than just her mother's testimony. This is ridiculous.

Thank GOD the island scenes were great. It was the only thing keeping this from being the worst episode of Lost ever.

That was an abomination.

It was so contrived that none of it made sense. Kate knew she was wanted in the real world so what's the difference what Miles knew? The whole thing was a plot device just to get Miles and Ben together. Obvious and forced. Locke throwing the dishes again within Ben's earshot? And getting duped AGAIN by Sawyer? How many times can we recycle the same plots and pretend the characters remember nothing from one day to the next? And speaking of remembering nothing...looks like Claire and Hurley have forgotten all about Charlie. Claire actually seems pretty happy. More memory loss. Not even a conversation about missing him when she needed help with Aaron when HELLO that would have been the obvious thing to do is the writers cared at all about Claire.

I won't even go into the ridiculous trial and the plea bargain that gets Kate off her many many many crimes. Absolutely ridiculous. I have no sympathy for Kate whatever because of the way she bounces back and forth between these two men and uses them, so I just didn't care about her story. She's horrible. And the fact that she somehow is now Aaron's mom is just adding insult to injury. She doesn't deserve any of these blessings.

Terrible. All of it.

The non-Kate stuff is the only thing that saved it for me. Can they really believe that we would buy one trial, consolidating all charges, in a jurisdiction where not one of the crimes was committed? And that even if you could make a jury sympathetic on the abusive husband knocked off by the self-sacrificing island saint, and even if you argue that juries are swayed by celebrity, she needed to do some token prison time. No DA would settle for probation. Of course, since the probation conditions won't let her leave the state, she has to be in the state where Jack is, but as you say, nothing but contrivance.

And, I'm sorry, but Evie cannot convey the emotions required in the flashforward. She looked like she had mild indigestion throughout, but that was about it. And the tiff with Sawyer was totally unconvincing. Not to mention, speaking of memory loss, that both she and Sawyer have forgotten that pregnant women die on the island. I love Gregg, but how could he co-author a script with so many logic and continuity errors.

At least there was the grenade in Miles's mouth, which wasn't in any of the spoilers. Locke is going to make Ben look like Mr. Nice Guy really soon!

Cardie

Wasnt the greatest. I do get annoyed with everyone wining about no one talking about Charlie, but i even admit Claires reactions were very innapropriate. I just hope next weeks is better.

Amen to both of you. My two favorite posters to read from the spoiler section. (Cardie and Pace)

I suppose I shouldn't be that surprised that this episode sucked considering that The Economist was my favorite episode since Flashes Before Your Eyes and that one was followed up by Stranger In A Strange Land.

This episode competes with SIASL for worst episode ever. Whereas SIASL was completely and utterly irrelevant, this one was just pure nonsense.

I agree that the court scenes seemed rushed, and I also don't see why Kate has Aaron-if that is Claire's Aaron. Not trying to whine, but I thought it was pretty odd for Claire not to say anything about Charlie. Guess she did it off camera sometime :)

This episode was poopie.

This episode was poopie.

:biggrin: Care to elaborate?

I agree with all of you that it sure wasn't a great episode. I'm holding back my final decision because i'm wondering if it only seemed to be so awful after such a strong and entertaining episode last week.

I, too, found the FF a little hard to believe and forced, but there were some interesting Island scenes....weren't there? lol

I really think it was just the weakest episode of the season.....which made it feel worse than it was.

just one hoser's opinion :biggrin:

The first real disappointment of the season. Should have known it would take a Kate episode to be the season's first screw-up.

How on earth did Kate get probation for the numerous crimes she had committed? Because her mother wouldn't testify? And how on earth did the prosecution's main witness (Diane) get to have a private conversation with the defendant? And Kate gets probation because Diane refuses to testify?

This was a badly written episode that lacked any kind of sense whatsoever.

Also, I believe that my disgust of Kate is now complete. And I don't care if she is taking care of Aaron.

We didn't get the 5th Oceanic 6 identity.
I felt jipped.

My beef, other than the previously stated legal joke and the contrived, just plain old silliness of Kate's obsession about what Bruce Lee knew about her, is that they are slowly taking our beloved characters and making them bad guys. PROBABLY by design. BUT, I want to like Locke still. I always liked the man of faith part about him. Although you can forget the sweat house vision quest crap, that was too much and I hated that episode for turning him from man of faith into some sort of shaman....too much...

But, I digress...

Don't make us hate our heroes! Please...?....

Dear Gregg Nations,

I love you.

But... NO.

Love,

Me.



Dear LOST,


I still love you.

But please don't waste another precious hour of the 40 something left on a character that is such a laughable contrivance. Yes, I know multiple shots of Evangeline Lilly in a bikini help ratings, but everytime you expect me to believe she robbed a bank for a toy plane, is a poor wittle victim who blew up a man and bought insurance the day before, finds out pregnancy kills on the island but has sex anyway, licks spoons as a method of seduction and has to be reminded by the big strong man that DOH she's a fugitive, or got ten years probation for those kinds of crimes, my respect for you goes down a notch. I love you already, LOST, but please let me respect you.

You ain't getting none tonight.


PS: Next week looks cool.

Me.

I love Kate so I was prepared to be generous in judging this episode, but the FF was just horrific. As bad as the contrivances were that got her off - and they were very bad indeed - no mention is even made of the fact that she's being tried in California for a murder committed in Iowa, a bank robbery committed in New Mexico, an assault on a Fed. Marshall committed who-knows-where. The question of jurisdiction is completely ignored.

It would have been better if her mother were dead and couldn't testify, and somebody lied to give her an alibi elsewhere at the time of Wayne's murder. That would be one set of charges disposed of, at least. Then try her in New Mexico and buy off a juror to get her out of that one. Have a witness mysteriously disappear in some other case. We wouldn't have to even see these trials, we could just hear about them after the fact. Even that would have been better than the choices they made. What was the point of that? Was all that so we could see Jack testify as a character witness? Which was all wrong as to timing and... never mind. The FF just fell short in every way.

I found Kate's on-island scenes no better. The dialogue in her scenes with Miles was absurd. "Tell me what you know." "You want to know what I know." All with overblown emotion. So wrong. And the Kate/Sawyer scenes made no sense whatsoever in terms of characterization. They played like Kate/Sawyer of Season 1 with a sleepover thrown in, which is a real shame because it looks like we won't get another scene with those two for a long time.

I was excited for Gregg, but now after seeing this I feel sorry for him. This is now my least favourite episode. Every complaint about how poor the writing is on this episode is valid.

This is the story outline they came up with in the writers room? This is how Kate is off the hook?

Write what you know. If you know nothing about law or good courtroom drama*, don't bother trying to fake it. It's embarrassing. They might as well have had Dan Fielding in the courtroom, at least there would have been some laughs.

Nobody could even bother getting some law student to consult? There are thousands people who watch this show who are an expert in some field or another. I'm sure they'd be willing to consult, FOR FREE.

*Perhaps this is truly how this court case would play out in a tangent universe with topsy-turvey law procedures.

wow.talk about a downer.

all first three so great episodes and now the Kate one.

lame contrived and totally cringeworthy.

The Skate stuff was whatever. totally believable......NOT!I mean Kate has clearly shown she had plans all along to have children with Sawyer and all...so its really natural she gets upsets he doesnt want her to be preggers. and also there is the death sentence for pregnant women but no....its Kates desire to be a mother so strong she defies death and gets mad at Sawyer.

HAHAHA...NOT:drowsy:

The Jate stuff.....HAHAHAHA....oh my god...congrats for making it soooo laughable....im thankful there was a bit of comedy in this ep.wow good stuff.:rolleyes:

and then the Trial stuff

even more laughable than Jate!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


PHEW.

The one writer isnt she the one that wrote the god awful tatoo ep?im new to Lost and all and watch all the eps together so im confused. hopefully things will change or the writers will change . as easily as i got tinto Lost im so ready to get out of it.well have to wait and see.

This episode was horrible.Kate should pay for her crimes like Sawyer and Desmond did. So what? she's too pretty to be in prison?
This character is selfish and not lovable and she doesn't make sense at all. Poor lil kate wanted a baby and is angry because sawyer doesn't want one?

The sawyer/kate argument didn't make sense at all. She wakes him up, kisses im..then she's like "Oh no, don't touch me". :confused:


Hurley and Claire seem pretty happy too. Wooow! :undecide:

I wouldn't hope the writers will change, they seem pretty fond of the team of dung they have right now, and they're pretty fond of Evangeline as is obvious. Unfortunately, the audience seems to realise right now that EVERY scene with Evangeline drags down the work of other actors it seems.

Probably one of the main reasons this episode seemed to drag out indefinitely. Keep eye-candy with no acting skills in videoclips and commercials, not 60 minute long tv series plskthx

this is the first episode this seaason that I did not like. here is why:

I knew it was going to be Aaron as Kate's son. No surprise.

The courtroom scenes were a joke.

When Locke finds out that the Freighties want Ben, he would have immediately tried to contact them to give Ben up. Locke would not have missed this opprtunity for leverage. Locke would have used Ben to get answers from the freighties on the boat, not bother with Miles.

I thought in general that the reveals were forced and that they were just trying to get some facts out there without devloping much of a plot. I guess in the long run these types of episoded are a necessary evil to address the bigger picture plot and set things up for later. I just think it could have been done better. Especally since people on this site were anticipating the answer of what would happen to Kate from a legal perspective.

The courtroom scenes were not good. And frankly, Kate came off a little nutty in her on-island scenes. The dialogue didn't make much sense to me (since when has she not trusted Sawyer?), and the episode felt a little rushed overall. And why was Claire so smiley right on the heels of Charlie's death?

I wanted to like this episode, but I just didn't. :frown:

BRING BACK THE WGA STRIKE!

Ooops...sorry.

Hmmm...so it begins. The 1st big downer in the remaining 48 hours. A 100% natural undiluted filler. How many more like these shall we have to endure intermittently? And come to think of it, most probably only 4 more eps to go this season, this comes across as more horrible than anything.

The writers have a clearly delineated 48 hrs to work with. Why cant they stuff it with some gr8 story???

Kate's Son = Aaron (was tht even a suspense)
A happy claire! -> Charlie's dead Claire!!!
Courtroom drama = damp squib
Kate's probation for her several crimes = huh?
Skate's interaction = bad
Kate asking Miles about herself n thn eventually gettin to know wht all know = perfect contrivance jus to get that 3.2 mil offer underway.

Bad episode...hope they revive it in the next one.

Did I say bad episode?

No, we have 9 more.

I agree that the court scenes were not believable. As well as the dialogue between Miles and Kate. I liked some parts, like the whole Ben mysteriously being rich thing. The only good thing Miles said to Kate was not to go back and stay put. She didnt listen.

I used to have just a little faith in Kate but not anymore. Talk about making a bad decision. Youre wanted in the real world, why go back? Why would she go and tease Sawyer and then break his heart? She's just more than a little confusing to me.

Yeah, I have to say that this was the weakest ep so far this year. There was a lot of hype built around it as being one of the best, and having a great ending (for those who weren't spoiled ;) )

The writing was not very good though -- too many really awkward contrivances and segues that "served the plot" but didn't really make sense. In fact, this didn't even feel like a Lost episode, but instead a soap opera with really melodramatic scenes. Sawyer did not come off well in the ep either -- his dialogue was some of the worst "Coffee smells good. Is it about the pregnancy?" -- where did that come from ? "How about a game of backgammon".

The FF stuff was a little contrived too, how could the deal for Kate to serve no jail time be made so easily? Never mind all her crimes, she crashed on an island, that explains everything! That's like saying inner city kids who have a rough life and abusive parents should be let off the hook for killing innocent people.

And the big twist at the end was almost a throw away line (my mom thought Kate said Eric, not Aaron -- "Oh, that's nice, she named her baby Eric" ;)

Miles was becoming one of my favorite newbies, but I thought his talk with Ben would be a little more enlightening -- nope, he just wants some cash. Though now we have the rampant speculation as to who the "he" is who wants Ben dead (my guess is Widmore, but I have no idea)

And Locke is seriously insane, and not in a cool way (Col. Kurtz is certainly an apt name for him). Throwing the plate against the wall was such a weak character move of his -- he has no ability whatsoever to just bottle up his emotions, at least until he's out of earshot from Ben)

Sorry, but I'm also not the biggest fan of Kate eps in general -- her stories add nothing to the island mysteries. Give me a Desmond, Locke, Ben, or Juliet story any day!
100%
Oh, and one more thought -- it's probably a bad sign in a Kate episode when the best scene was the 30 seconds we had with Jin and Sun -- they were so cute together! "I'm learning english for you so we can live in America" -- awww!

Give me the two of them any day over Skate or Jate.

The first real disappointment of the season. Should have known it would take a Kate episode to be the season's first screw-up.

How on earth did Kate get probation for the numerous crimes she had committed? Because her mother wouldn't testify? And how on earth did the prosecution's main witness (Diane) get to have a private conversation with the defendant? And Kate gets probation because Diane refuses to testify?

This was a badly written episode that lacked any kind of sense whatsoever.

Also, I believe that my disgust of Kate is now complete. And I don't care if she is taking care of Aaron.

I agree.

I'm so disgusted that Claire is being used for Kate and Jack's storylines. I *gasp* feel bad for Sawyer, because of Kate. It makes everything worse that Kate is taking care of Aaron. I couldn't stand the courtroom scene; I just didn't care about what happend to her. Jack's appearance was interesting...

I was more intrigued in the preview for next week.

The first episode of Lost I will never watch. The synopsis was enough to put me off.

I think it was somebody from TV Guide who claimed that Eggtown would be "every womans favourite episode of S4". Personally I think women should feel insulted by this episode. From the response I've seen Kate and Claire come off extremely badly. Just so you know REAL women aren't as shallow as the ones portrayed on this show.

I think it was somebody from TV Guide who claimed that Eggtown would be "every womans favourite episode of S4".

Wrong. This was my least favorite episode of the season thus far. I just didn't get it.

Although scantily-clad Sawyer and Kate scenes are never really a bad thing.;)

This character is selfish and not lovable and she doesn't make sense at all.

And this is the thing with Kate episodes. In theory, they should make you sympathize with a character who at other times makes bad choices and hurts people. But I think her eps across the board only make her look worse. What Kate Did made her look cold and calculating. This makes her look immature and selfish. Just when I think she can't look any worse, she does. Even Jack and Sawyer know by now what she does, I can't see how anyone can support her in a relationship with anybody. She doesn't deserve one.

And as for the "trial", you know what would have been a better and more believable contrivance? If the reveal would have included Ben somehow and shown that with all his money he has rigged the court and gotten Kate off in exchange for some favour and now she's on the hook for him like Sayid. That would have been an awesome twist. Perfect opportunity but they blew it in favour of this fantasy trial that a twelve year old could have written (no offense to twelve year olds).


I think it was somebody from TV Guide who claimed that Eggtown would be "every womans favourite episode of S4". Personally I think women should feel insulted by this episode. From the response I've seen Kate and Claire come off extremely badly.

Sun didn't come off that well either. First she argues with Jin over wanting to go back to Korea where they left their miserable life, then she says "my baby" instead of "our baby". All of the women on this show have been reduced to cold heartless you-know-whats. I only sympathize with the men at this point and when they're busy beating people up and shoving grenades in people's faces, it's hard to care about them either.

Have to agree with the general sentiment on this. I thought Sun was either way more heartless than we'd seen before, or her character was presented inconsistently. I thought Kate's interactions with Sawyer bordered on incomprehensible. Why the back and forth, I like you, get lost, I'm back, oh I'll slap you for being glad I'm not pregnant. Sawyer is right to call her on her bouncing between him and Jack; her character comes off as either a ruthless user or deranged -- and not a well-written version of either. And yes, while not a shipper, I did think that now that the losties have time to do their laundry and watch videos, it might've been nice for any of them, especially Claire, to say a sentence or two about Charlie.

Lots of character issues. It's difficult I'm sure to work in new characters and advance the action in a timely manner, but the established characters can't fall apart in the meantime.

That was an abomination.

It was so contrived that none of it made sense. Kate knew she was wanted in the real world so what's the difference what Miles knew?

The difference is that the outside real world assumes that Kate Austen perished in the plane crash. Kate may have hoped that when the Losties got back to the States, she could persuade them to have her declared legally dead rather than turning her in to the cops. Then she could start a new life with a new assumed identity.

But the fact that the freighties (including Miles) knows who she is and that she's still alive, makes that plan impossible.

The difference is that the outside real world assumes that Kate Austen perished in the plane crash. Kate may have hoped that when the Losties got back to the States, she could persuade them to have her declared legally dead rather than turning her in to the cops. Then she could start a new life with a new assumed identity.

But the fact that the freighties (including Miles) knows who she is and that she's still alive, makes that plan impossible.

Sorry. Contrivance. She met Miles when she was with Jack. She trekked all around with him, went to the helicopter and then crossed the jungle. And now suddenly she has to cook up a scam to talk to him alone as if they just met? It was forced and badly written. Even the dialogue was poor. "Do you know who I am?" Well, yeah, we met yesterday. The only reason for that whole mishogosh was to get Miles in with Ben so he could blackmail him. Kate was nothing but a tool and it was so poorly executed that it was obvious. Both Jack and Sawyer have to remind her daily that she's a fugitive. Heck, even Lapidus said that he knew the manifest by heart and knew Juliet wasn't on the plane. What was she thinking for going with Jack anyway other than the fact that she can't keep her eyes and hands off Jack?

The Kate of season one was much smarter than this. She knew when rescue came it would come with handcuffs, so she stole Joanna's ID, doctored it and tried to connive her way onto the raft so she could run again. This time, she acts like she's going home to a life until she's reminded she's not. She comes off like an idiot. And then to make matters worse, she leaves again, disregards what Miles and Sawyer say and goes back and we know she does in fact leave anyway. So WTF was all that even for?

My morning after opinion on ‘Eggtown”:

Remember the early spoil of Eggtown posted on Dark's site? Remember when TPTB expressed concern over the unnatural breaking point created by the strike? Remember when Carlton went back to his show runner duties despite the writers' strike to do some editing? We just saw all these pieces come together in an episode that appears to contain scenes that were not in the original version and is missing scenes that were. The episode, Kate's and everyone elses' OOC behaviour, the uneven dialog and choppy over cut scenes are the end product of trying to re-tailor what they shot and cram in information that would have appeared in the next or one of the following episodes.

The crap job of re-editing and re-tooling this episode leaves me in fear as to how much more of this will be done to shove what should have been in the three episodes they will not be filming into the remaining ones. Re-editing what has already been filmed and re-writing what hasn't. Given last night, this is more than likely to be a disaster for Lost fans.

Bottom line, I am a Skater and an episode that was so important to us, given the long separation of Kate and Sawyer that Skaters are facing, got the short shift but good. Scenes we expected were cut and the overall results is a damn mess of contradictions and OCC behaviour. Once again TPTB made a bad decision and by hurrying up the process gave us an episode that pretty much sucked over all. Is it as bad as SIASL, no, BUT I didn't care if Jack's episode stunk; in fact I could have cared less about his meaningful tattoos. I do care about an episode that SO affects Skate and YES I am horribly disappointed.

TPTB run the serious risk of dangling this shipper carrot out there for so long that everyone decides they're not hungry. I was a huge West Wing fan and loved the chemistry between Josh and Donna. HOWEVER, they kept them apart for six years, only letting them come together in the last five episodes of season seven. Hell by that time the entire storyline had worn thin and no one was interested when they finally consummated a relationship that had been in the foreplay stage for six years. Fans of Lost, and not just shippers, are sick to death of the triangle and if they don't wake up to that fact soon, no one, including shippers, will care at all who Kate chooses. Foreplay gets painful if it goes on forever. Why they are so in love with this weak and overdone storyline is beyond me but if they keep playing the triangle card it will ruin all three characters involved and possibly Juliet -- for exactly WHAT?

Everyone, fans, shippers, and the media need to stop taking the bait and quit voting in polls, taking sides or showing any interest in a plot device that has worn out its welcome and then some.

The first three episodes were so wonderful that this one was not just disappointing in comparison but surprisingly bad.

Talk about OOC behaviour. Who are these people? Claire can’t remember Charlie died what three days ago? Kate is behaving like a schizophrenic nut job. Sawyer is acting like a love sick wuss. Jack looks like a spineless bundle of nerves or a guilty criminal. Locke makes Colonel Kurtz look sane and then we get treated to Hurley’ bathroom habits. Even Sun and Jin appear to be a cross purposes again all at once, “my” baby vs. “our” baby. Who has kidnapped our Losties, how much is the ransom and where can we mail our checks?

losttvfan, very well put. If this incoherence is the result of editing, I too fear for the remaining eps.

I've had a few hours to digest it, and not only does it still suck. It's worse than I gave it credit for.

Another thing that really bothers me is Jack states at the trial that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. But we know from other episodes that the plane wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench in the Indian Ocean.

Another example of the atrocious writing in this episode?

This, the appalling trial, Claire and Sun's behavior, Kate's retarded amnesia of her past life. I mean come on, what did she suddenly think she would no longer be a wanted federal fugitive? Please. And to go through all that trouble just to ask Miles? That was so asinine.

This episode makes me angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

I was more intrigued in the preview for next week.

I second that! I watched the preview several times in a row after -- and when I went to bed last night, I was all excited, not so much for the ep I had just seen, but looking forward to next week!

I've had a few hours to digest it, and not only does it still suck. It's worse than I gave it credit for.

Another thing that really bothers me is Jack states at the trial that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. But we know from other episodes that the plane wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench in the Indian Ocean.

Another example of the atrocious writing in this episode?

This, the appalling trial, Claire and Sun's behavior, Kate's retarded amnesia of her past life. I mean come on, what did she suddenly think she would no longer be a wanted federal fugitive? Please. And to go through all that trouble just to ask Miles? That was so asinine.

This episode makes me angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

It's not like i'm defending this episode.....not in the least. After sleeping on it, i dislike more now than last night, BUT......Jack did mention during the trial that they crashed on an island, but then went on to describe how the plane crashed in the sea, and Kate helped get everyone (the other 7 of them) to shore. He even said something along the lines of, "I probably wouldn't even have made it to shore alive, if it wasn't for Kate".

This episode makes me angry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

That's how I feel. I've disliked episodes before, Lord knows I've disagreed with their story decisions at times, found inconsistencies, caught characters acting out of character and making stupid choices, but this episode was so overall poor in so many ways that it actually made me angry. It was as if they accepted a script from a writer that has never seen the show.

losttvfan, very well put. If this incoherence is the result of editing, I too fear for the remaining eps.

While you make a lot of great points, losttvfan, and the editing did seem very bad in the ep (and I too am now fearful about the remaining eps), I believe it can't just be blamed on that.

The contrivances of the plot itself, whether done quickly or not, were just not very good. The driving points in the ep (Kate with Miles, as one example) just had no intelligence behind them: why did she need so badly to find out if he knew the truth -- they could have thought of a million better things for her to want from him (like how to get off the island, for one).

And thank you for pointing out Claire's lack of mourning -- that too is majorly ticking me off. Can't they fit in one touching moment of Claire remembering Charlie -- eating peanut butter, finding the ring? Heck, I could write it better for them.

And I feel your pain as a Skater. Though I most certainly am not one myself (could care less who kate winds up with) -- but Sawyer was given nothing in the ep except to pose like Beckham in his briefs on the bed. He deserves better. Give him more chances to deal with the murder he not so long ago committed, for one.

Enough with the romance! Unless its one of the good ones, like Jin and Sun, or Des and Penny! Those are the only ones that I find touching anymore.
100%


And as for the "trial", you know what would have been a better and more believable contrivance? If the reveal would have included Ben somehow and shown that with all his money he has rigged the court and gotten Kate off in exchange for some favour and now she's on the hook for him like Sayid. That would have been an awesome twist.

Ohh, that would have been an interesting twist! Esp to see that essentially each of them have had to make a separate deal with Ben off island! And we're left to wonder how everyone's "deal" will eventually tie in with everyone elses. Yeah, it sounds like many of us should have written this ep instead ;)

No offense to the writers of this ep, but do we know if they did any other eps for the show?

This is the first time I've ever posted in this section, never having disliked an episode enough to say so until now. Island Kate was pretty much acting like the little cornered animal that she is and there was nothing OOC about her in that regard, using people, especially men, to get what she needs has always been a part of who she is and one of the reasons why I loathe her and her boring story. I was happy to see Sawyer call her out on her behavior and he didn't deserve to be slapped, but I really have no sympathy for him. He's on the other end of the con he's been playing on women his entire adult life. Karma is kind of nasty that way.

The Jack and Kate stuff in the future wasn't that OOC either. Jack continues to pine away after a woman that isn't worth it and she continues to allow him to do so as long as he's willing to do so under her terms. Too bad Jack has a conscience about lying to a small child about who is mother is or Kate's future would be just peachy. Anyone surprised that so far Kate is the only one of the Oceanic 6 that isn't having a problem adjusting, isn't having any guilt, isn't falling apart like Sayid, Hurley and Jack seem to be? Kate is completely in character, which is why I loathe her and the screen time wasted on her story.

The trial was too stupid to even comment on and I hate that Kate has Aaron. The idea that something has happened to Claire and this selfish, dangerous and completely undeserving woman has her hands on that baby and is living in the lap of luxery makes me hate the character and the writers for going this route.

I guess I'll hope that Uncle Jack snaps out of self-destruct mode and does something to right that horrible wrong.

This is the first time I've ever posted in this section, never having disliked an episode enough to say so until now. Island Kate was pretty much acting like the little cornered animal that she is and there was nothing OOC about her in that regard, using people, especially men, to get what she needs has always been a part of who she is. I was happy to see Sawyer call her out on her behavior and he didn't deserve to be slapped, but I really have no sympathy for him. He's on the other end of the con he's been playing on women his entire adult life. Karma is kind of nasty that way.

The Jack and Kate stuff in the future wasn't that OOC either. Jack continues to pine away after a woman that isn't worth it and she continues to allow him to do so as long as he's willing to do so under her terms. Too bad Jack has a conscience about lying to a small child about who is mother is or Kate's future would be just peachy. Anyone surprised that so far Kate is the only one of the Oceanic 6 that isn't having a problem adjusting, isn't having any guilt, isn't falling apart like Sayid, Hurley and Jack seem to be? Kate is completely in character and I loathe her and the screen time wasted on her story.

The trial was too stupid to even comment on and I hate that Kate has Aaron. The idea that something has happened to Claire and this selfish, dangerous and completely undeserving woman has her hands on that baby and is living in the lap of luxery makes me hate the character and the writers for going this route.

I guess I'll hope that Uncle Jack snaps out of self-destruct mode and does something to right that horrible wrong.

I wouldn't mind if the scenario and characters were the way you describe them above, because at least that would be a coherent story -- a soap opera story, but at least a story. However, I find the characterization to be incoherent and inconsistent. One of Lost's strengths, imo, is its insistence that characters are not all black and white, but that everyone has good and bad in them. It's not easy to make a character complex without making him seem inconsistent. For me, this episode went over the line in that regard.

I was really looking forward to coming into this thread today and congratulating Gregg Nations and Elizabeth Sarnoff for a job well done. Sadly, that will not be happening.


What an utter disappointment on all levels.

To add my sentiments to Claudia's open letter to tptb, I love you too, LOST, but I'm having a difficult time seeing why I should respect you at all after this episode. I can't claim to be the smartest cookie on the board, but I'd like to think I'm fairly intelligent at least emotionally speaking. And for an episode that was meant to delve into the motivations and feelings of a particularly conflicted character, I felt insulted as a woman and as a fan of LOST, because there was no emotional resonance to speak of.

How this script and 'SIASL' got greenlighted, I'm sure we'll never know. All I can really say is...trick us twice, shame us.

Typical Kate episode. Sub-par by alot.

The court room scenes were definitely painful, and Claire's short-term memory regarding Charlie was very annoying.

The sawyer/kate argument didn't make sense at all. She wakes him up, kisses im..then she's like "Oh no, don't touch me". :confused:


Oh, I don't know, I thought they really pegged how women act sometimes with that one. ;)

worst.episode.ever.

simple as that.

And as for the "trial", you know what would have been a better and more believable contrivance? If the reveal would have included Ben somehow and shown that with all his money he has rigged the court and gotten Kate off in exchange for some favour and now she's on the hook for him like Sayid. That would have been an awesome twist. Perfect opportunity but they blew it in favour of this fantasy trial that a twelve year old could have written (no offense to twelve year olds).
Agree!

And...

I don't think it was an unwatchable episode, only a weak one… First of all, the path they're leading Locke into is getting ridiculous. As much as I enjoyed seeing Miles with a grenade in his mouth, it was stupid from Locke doing it… what if it accidentally falls?
How is he going to get his answers? Come on! Locke is more intelligent than that! And that's one of the things that bothered me about this episode, characters felt out of character… Sawyer wasn't our old Sawyer, not even Kate was recognizable… Kate's trial… well… for Lost it would be more believable if she got away with it because some big influences (similar to those who planted the fake plane) had pulled the strings into making Kate look innocent, but she got free because her mother's heart finally worked and decided not to testify? Come on!!!! Too much rush for having only 48 episodes left? It seems like they wanted to finish with that business as fast as Kate... I think it was a big deal from season 1 how Kate was going to deal with her guilt and finishing it this way, well… It just doesn't make that storyline justice…

Some people have complaints on how Claire isn't grieving after Charlie's death… well, If someone has read my previews reviews and comments on Claire, I've always said she never loved Charlie… It felt like she always was tired from him, trying to put him aside… maybe that's why she feels ok with it, but Hurley acting all normal and ok with his best friend's death… that is not believable…

And talking about Claire, although she isn't one of my favorite characters, what happened to Desmond's vision of her getting on the helicopter with Aaron… and why leaving Aaron to Kate? If something happened to Claire, wouldn´t it felt more natural that she left Aaron to Sun (She has baby-sit for Claire before, she's pregnant, she's not a fugitive, she has a "Family"…) They have some HUG explaining to do with this matter and I hope they elaborate that explanation better than Kate's trial…

Now… I still love Lost and there are a some new interesting questions that we can say saved this episode from being unwatchable:

*Millionaire Ben … interesting… although Miles black-mailing him only for the money? Too shallow for Lost…

*Jack's comment: There were 8 survivors… if so, why only Oceanic six?

*Daniel "Remembering" some cards?... Well, a little bit "Desmondiac" feeling here… eager to see where that's going to…

I don't like to criticize Lost, because for me is one of the best written shows on TV -if not the best, but it worries me that in order of finishing the show in 48 episodes and give "answers" to those who can't wait, they're rushing thins up and sacrificing the show's quality…

I know they can still deliver great stories like The economist and I'm really expecting next week's episode, because not only is Desmond's centric (I hope they don't kill this character) and is written by Carlton and Damon, but also will explain some more things about the people behind the rescue and the freighter… I hope one day Eggtown gets lost into context and we manage to appreciate it as much as other episodes…

Another thing that really bothers me is Jack states at the trial that they crashed on an island in the South Pacific. But we know from other episodes that the plane wreckage was found in the Sundra Trench in the Indian Ocean.

Another example of the atrocious writing in this episode?



Maybe the outside world found out the 815 in Bali was a fake?

Anyway, I second everyone's thoughts. But Claire's lack of mourning is the most heinous to me.

It pains me to post in this thread. Yet, here I am.

Ben taunts Locke.
Hurley says too much. Dude.
Locke goes into a fit of insecurity/rage.
Sawyer luvs Kate.
Kate manipulates. Kate bails.
Jack comes to save Kate.
Jack doesn't love Kate. Jack really loves Kate.
Jack bails.
Prosecutors are cold and mean.
Someone else manipulates someone else on the island.
Locke turns deeply psychotic.
Kate's mom forgives. Everything is okey dokey artichokey.
Twisty surprise at the end.

Yawn.

I don't like it the episode it was realy bad.especialy Kate's acting with Sawyer.And the writing was realy poor for this episode.

Locke is my man, and I thought emoLocke had run his course back in season 2. Did we really need another 'I'm getting played and I can't take it!" scene?

One too many longing looks from Jack. Jack, get over Kate already and have some fun with Juliet, she's hawt!

Kate, get over yourself. And get some therapy.

Bye, Claire! So sorry Kate took your child/entire storyline!

Didn't enjoy this episode.

i still can't believe that Darleton allowed this storyline to explain how Kate is free in the future.....while it was poorly written and executed, i really am more surprised with the whole lack of creativeness and ingenuity used to answer that mystery.

I've come to expect so much more from this show. :shakehead:

Anyone surprised that so far Kate is the only one of the Oceanic 6 that isn't having a problem adjusting, isn't having any guilt, isn't falling apart like Sayid, Hurley and Jack seem to be? Kate is completely in character, which is why I loathe her and the screen time wasted on her story.

Wouldn't it be odd if the flash forwards are "possible futures" and that the series ends with altered futures for the likes of Jack, Hurley, Sayid and Kate? Wouldn't that mean Kate could finally pay the consequences of her past crimes and lack of remorse?

Wouldn't it be odd if the flash forwards are "possible futures" and that the series ends with altered futures for the likes of Jack, Hurley, Sayid and Kate? Wouldn't that mean Kate could finally pay the consequences of her past crimes and lack of remorse?

Darlton nixed the "possible futures" scenario in the latest podcast.

Maybe the outside world found out the 815 in Bali was a fake?


During his testimony Jack first says the plane crashed on an Island. Then a moment or two later he says they landed in the water. Sounds to me the Dharma/Widmore/Whomever burned the wreckage to make it seem the vast majority of the plane carshed on the island and exploded on impact, and the eight lone passengers safely landing in the water is Jack's story on how they survived even though the plane exploded thereby killing all other passengers. But that still doesn't jive with the Sundra trench story intially told to the world.

It's probably the 4 weeks of forewarning I've had with this episode, but I've already kinda shurgged it off. It's stupid, it's Kate, it's to be expected. I fully plan to move on becuase next week looks fantastic. I was actually entertained by chunks of the Island story, I loved Jack's testimony and getitng more insight into their lie and if you're in the frame of mind I am when it comes to Kate episodes, it's easy to just get over it and be excited for next week.

The only thing is... they're going to write more. I'm dying to see Jack's next flashforward and Sayid's and omg, BEN's can't get here fast enough. But you know they're going to write another one for Kate and that thought is a little depressing.

And this is the thing with Kate episodes. In theory, they should make you sympathize with a character who at other times makes bad choices and hurts people. But I think her eps across the board only make her look worse.

There is only one moment in the history of the show when Evangeline Lilly was capable of a truly moving performance for me, when I was really, really into Kate and that's ironically, the moment when Aaron was born. It was the perfect mix of vulnerability, being scared out of her mind, resilience and joy and she nailed it. That episode (just like RBA was for Claire) was written by a woman and it was her only LOST collaboration. I have no idea if that says anything, but our regular writers aren't helping Ms.Lily's limited range, that's all I'm saying. "I wanna use you for something" and "Do you know who I am?" made me chuckle and involuntary humor is only fun for so long.

Amazingly enough, I kinda drank the Kool Aid for a while, I remember being mad at JACK at the end of Born To Run , even though that's the ep where she poisons a father who's trying to get his kid rescued and leaves a 22 month baby orphaned, cause you know... damn him, how dare he call her on her crap? Look at that cute pouty face!

but Sawyer was given nothing in the ep except to pose like Beckham in his briefs on the bed. He deserves better. Give him more chances to deal with the murder he not so long ago committed, for one.

I've called him Bailey Salinger this whole season. I think Kate's his Kryptonite in terms of characterization, always has been. He has two modes around her t his season: leering and pinning her hands down even after she says NO (ick) or totally whipped puppy. I don't like or dislike the guy and am generally uninterested in his fate, but after his latest murder orchestrated by Ben and Locke I expected some serious plot development for him once he moved to Otherville. I actually expected him to be a part of the power play between Locke and Ben. Nope. Kate isn't the "triangle chick" anymore, Sawyer's taken her place.

Terrible episode. Possibly the worst Lost episode ever and definitely the worst this
season. It destroyed all of the momentum the show was building up this season, which
to this point has been one of the best. It was like slogging through mud. How did the
fast-paced adventure of the beginning of the season turn into a bad Mexican soap
opera?


By the way, I don't understand the title "Eggtown" at all. It's some sort of pregnancy
reference I'm sure, but I don't get it.


Don't let Elizabeth Sarnoff write another episode. Ever.

After watching Law & Order for so many years, you get a sense of how a trial should proceed. Kate's trial was played out so badly. It didn't make any sense at all.

Williams did an okay job directing a bad script. I wish the Kate parts could have been written differently. Let's hope we don't get any more scripts like this ... ever again.

I've called him Bailey Salinger this whole season. I think Kate's his Kryptonite in terms of characterization, always has been. He has two modes around her this season: leering and pinning her hands down even after she says NO (ick) or totally whipped puppy. I don't like or dislike the guy and am generally uninterested in his fate, but after his latest murder orchestrated by Ben and Locke I expected some serious plot development for him once he moved to Otherville. I actually expected him to be a part of the power play between Locke and Ben. Nope. Kate isn't the "triangle chick" anymore, Sawyer's taken her place.

I'll second that ick and point out that it made no damn sense to me coming from the same guy who checked out her reactions so carefully in the cage scene to make sure that she did, in fact, want to proceed. Horndog, yes. Sexually aggressive with her? That came out of left field and was one of about 100 thing I'd sum up as bad characterization in Kate and/or Sawyer in their scenes. Mind you, there was plenty of that to go around since I wasn't thrilled with chirpy, cheerful non-grieving Claire either.

After watching Law & Order for so many years, you get a sense of how a trial should proceed. Kate's trial was played out so badly. It didn't make any sense at all.

Williams did an okay job directing a bad script. I wish the Kate parts could have been written differently. Let's hope we don't get any more scripts like this ... ever again.


we could have used a couple of Law and Order "dunk dunk" sounds during the trial. At least that would have made it more interesting.

I just want to add to everyone's sentiment that Claire should be mourning Charlie. The last time we even had anyone think of Charlie was when the group split up- and Hurley and Calire went with Locke BECAUSE OF CHARLIE! Now they forget about him??? And do whatever Locke says?? Last time I checked Locke doesn't own the others camp. Hurley and Claire could tell Locke to shove it and just stay in one of the houses. What is he going to do to them? Throw some dishes at them. And what happened to all those other people who went with Locke? Did they just disapear? Russo, Ben's daughter and her boyfriend have been nowhere to be seen.

Sorry for all the questions but I am starting to get lost watching Lost.

Shame on you Elizabeth Sarnoff. This episode was HORRIBLE.!!!!!!!
Why did I think a Kate episode was going to be good? I didn't even read any spoilers and I still knew it would be Aaron at the end. I mean c'mon.

The worst part was Locke throwing his dishes against the wall. AGAIN. Wow, didn't see that coming. How many time do we have to see 1 of the Losties talking to someone else in a jail like setting, trying to get answers, not getting any, then walking away ?

The Kate and Miles scenes were laughable, and not in a good way.

Every scene in this show is the same as every other scene. Unknown things happen for unknown reasons to unknown characters.

2nd worst episode ever.

That was a dud episode alright. Story not very interesting, the elements didn't fit together. I like pretty much all the actors in Lost but this wasn't their finest hour (the normally excellent Holloway was laughably broad in the bed scene; the dialogue didn't help.) Losing-It Flash-Forward Jack is like a bad imitation of Rainman. And there was even a clunky "duh-duh-DAH!" moment to end. Best forgotten.

Except for a couple of scenes this eppy was boring. I mean court room drama -- please! The first two eppy's were outstanding -- fast paced- on your toes kind of storytelling. The Economist I was neutral on -- It was an average eppy -- much slowed down but okay. But when you put an even slower eppy after it -- it makes the slower one appear even more boring.

I even found myself looking at the clock during Kate's flashforwards wondering when they'd get back to the island.

Kate was put in a bad light as well. With her past I wouldn't put it past her just taking Aaron or at the very least refuse to go back and get Claire if Aaron got seperated from his real mother.Maybe that is why "they need to go back". Or one of the reasons Jack wants to -- guilt over Claire and Aaron's seperation. Claire may become another Danielle if she isn't dead.

Sawyer, Locke, Ben and Miles were really the only two that saved the eppy. And the scene with Locke and Miles -- priceless. You gotta love Locke for that (And he's not even one of my favorite characters).

I've called him Bailey Salinger this whole season. I think Kate's his Kryptonite in terms of characterization, always has been. He has two modes around her t his season: leering and pinning her hands down even after she says NO (ick) or totally whipped puppy. I don't like or dislike the guy and am generally uninterested in his fate, but after his latest murder orchestrated by Ben and Locke I expected some serious plot development for him once he moved to Otherville. I actually expected him to be a part of the power play between Locke and Ben. Nope. Kate isn't the "triangle chick" anymore, Sawyer's taken her place.


I third this notion. We've been waiting for Sawyer to become more of a power player since the S2 gun con, and it looked as if that's where the writers were taking him during the first three episodes of this season...finally.

He gets back around Kate, and suddenly he's a p'whipped puppy...um...I'm sorry, but what? Didn't dude just killed two people a few days ago? Where is the emotional resonance from that, and why didn't it factor into his conversations with Kate?

There were a ton of ways for the writers to address the issues between Sawyer and Kate that didn't require them cozying up with one another just to have a one-sided disagreement. I'm a fan of the couple, and while I enjoy their passionate, sexy side...I'm glad to forego it if the quality of their characterization is going to be compromised.

It pains me to post in this thread. Yet, here I am.

Ben taunts Locke.
Hurley says too much. Dude.
Locke goes into a fit of insecurity/rage.
Sawyer luvs Kate.
Kate manipulates. Kate bails.
Jack comes to save Kate.
Jack doesn't love Kate. Jack really loves Kate.
Jack bails.
Prosecutors are cold and mean.
Someone else manipulates someone else on the island.
Locke turns deeply psychotic.
Kate's mom forgives. Everything is okey dokey artichokey.
Twisty surprise at the end.

Yawn.

very well put ;) I especially like the okey dokey artichokey :biggrin:

Locke is also getting annoying in these last few eps. I like the different turn for him (after all, a character has to change!) but he is getting to be stupid and unhinged in a not so amusing way. I don't care for the whole authoritarian rule either -- I would rather put up with the freighters than that mess any day! Ben, on the other hand, is really moving up the ladder in terms of coolness.

islandtracker, very well said. My feelings exactly.

I have to say Im a Skater and was very upset at how Kate had always used Sawyer. But that was just their relationship. Or so I thought. Sawyer is at a good place in his mind right now. He's living a "normal" life. Not having to worry about scamming or conning or trying to make a living. He said it himself, they have a chance now. He wanted to "play house" even though it wouldnt have been perfect. I dont think he was getting mushy. I think he was just finally opening up to her. Obviously telling her, or rather showing her, how much she meant to him.

He protected her by going to Locke and telling him not to do anything to her. He even helped her out by distracting Locke. She gets lovey dovey back and then gets up like nothing and leaves him.

And then Jack. I really really like Jack. But the triangle thing was not my thing. And I agree with others that no matter who she chose, it wouldve been an ending to the triangle. But no, by the episode, it got more complicated.

This episode just showed us all Kates true character. That is, if you were trying to pull for her and root for her throughout the years. Die-hard fans of her character will always love her. For everyone else...well...

And I thought we were done with resetting the characters because there was an end date and the story could move forward now and not drag things out. In season two, Locke became confused and unhinged. Ben pushed his buttons and Sawyer conned him out of the camp guns with a lie that Jack was coming for them. Then he found his way again and moved on.

Now here we are two seasons later and we're all the way back to season two Locke. Ben pushes his buttons in the exact same way, we have the exact same reaction and Sawyer cons Locke with a lie that Kate is coming for Miles. This character has not developed even a tiny bit. Why are we all the way back to season two Locke? Even if he is faced with the same frustrations as then, he should have grown a bit so his reactions to those irritators should be different. Yet it's as if the writers only watched the show up to season two when they wrote this episode. That would make sense, since in season two Claire didn't give a toss about Charlie so now I'm seeing the consistency. And they also didn't know that pregnancy equals death then. Yup, this must be a season two episode. :rolleyes:

Kate dosen't deserves Sawyer at all.The guy was reday to die for her.And he she says "I don't trust you" I hate Kate character now a lot!

He gets back around Kate, and suddenly he's a p'whipped puppy...um...I'm sorry, but what? Didn't dude just killed two people a few days ago? Where is the emotional resonance from that, and why didn't it factor into his conversations with Kate?

I guess he just forgot that he killed 2 men a few days ago just like Claire forgot that Charlie died. :rolleyes:

I was really looking forward to this episode but I hated it. I hated it nearly as much as SIASL and that has to say something. The good thing is next week we'll have a Desmond episode and the week after a Juliet-centric and these 2 characters' episodes have never disappointed me so far.

I am just now beginning to be less angry than I was last night, I said less not un-angry.

I haven't even gone to my OutKaSts thread to see the level of disappointment yet, but I will pretty soon. I cannot believe that first of all Elizabeth Sarnoff would write another episode as bad as SISL and I didn't realize one of Greg Nation's jobs as script coordinator was to write as well. Okay well that's interesting.

I have never ever seen our Sawyer written the way he was last night. My heart goes outo to Josh for pulling a wonderful performance out of the mess he had to work with. God love him for given it his best shot. He was clearly being written badly and made to look like some poor love sick sap. God bless you Josh for givin' it your best try!

Kate as per usual was wishy-washy, rude and downright hateful to the one man who adores her and loves her unconditionally. I loved how Sawyer basically told her he'd known all along how she plays him against Jack. That's right Kate, brush off the one thing that actually works in your life. You do it all the time.

Kate is not worthy of Sawyer, she's not even worthy of Jack! And for that matter since when did Jack look all mooney and googoo eyes over Kate.

Now lets address this nonsense about Kate not being pregnant. Somebody seriously needs to go back and pay attention to Season 3.

Hello people!!! Pregnancy tests, Clementine, fertility doctor, holdin' Aaron and Ben practically handin' out sex advice to make them fall in love and make little Frimples...all of this to find out Kate's not pregnant!!! Can you say, "severe continuity failure"!!!

I won't even begin to go into the absolutely stupid and lame idea that Kate has Aaron...puhleeze!!!!

Nor will I delve into Kate tellin' Sawyer she didn't trust him. Sure Kate, don't trust the man on his knees ready to take a bullet for you. Stupid woman!!!!!

Worst. episode. ever.

Yeah, sorry I have to post here, but this episode just missed. I was saying last night how I did not hate the episode but was just thoroughly annoyed.

Annoyance... lame Kate scenes. I am not as much of a Kate hater as others here, but it is pretty tired the back and forth of her emotions with Sawyer and Jack, though kudos and funny when Sawyer calls her on it, though she has to slap him, face what you are.

The courtroom, I mean, I am not watching Lost for courtroom drama but wow, that was really terrible for all the reasons mentioned already.

Locke is getting more and more pathetic. I did like his scene with Miles, but come on, throwing the tray against the wall after leaving Ben, after saying, I know what you are trying to do, seriously. He is going to let his words oh you're evolving get to him that much. Stupid. I thought it was enough he took the food, that I thought showed Locke getting wise, but come on, 30 feet from the door, so dumb. So really Locke is just a pathetic weak character I guess is the message.

So yeah, have to say, of this one was not a great one.

Why wasn't there a memorial service for Charlie? When they burned the fuselage in S1, Claire was a showing her respects for those who had died. Hurley wants to watch a movie. James wants to read. Claire's hanging sheets...and Kate's...well, doing whatever it is that Kate does.

I don't consider myself a PB&J'er per se, but I'm really pissed about how they've gone about handling the loss of Charlie aside from the premiere.

It's not so much the ridiculous FF trial scenes or the tacky "Kate has Aaron" plot device or even the inconsistency in character development that had me disappointed with this episode so much as the OOC-ness from almost everyone. Since when is Sawyer being Mr. Nice-guy, wearing his heart on his sleeve and putting Kate's clothes in his bedroom closet? Color me confused, but didn't he just shoot up an innocent (kinda) other and murder his life-long nemesis?

Also, what's up with Claire and Hurley? Smiling and cracking jokes like there's nothing better to do. What, is Charlie only a distant memory nowadays? I realize the story is more fast-paced this season, but a little respect to the dude would be appropriate. Then we have Ben and Locke, who I could have sworn had the same exact conversation two seasons ago. Ben eff's with Locke's head and Locke throws dishes.

Before I go on to Kate, I must say, I'm her biggest fan. She reminds me a lot of myself so, naturally, I will defend Kate until the bitter end. Unfortunately for me, last night's episode was not a Kate episode. I don't think I even saw Kate last night. Was she even in the episode? Whoever it was on-island with Locke and Sawyer and off-island with Jack, that wasn't Kate. Seriously, were we to believe that that was the Kate we've come to know over three + seasons? Everything she did was so OOC I didn't even recognize who she was. First of all, what did Sawyer do to warrant her behavior in the beginning of the episode? Followed by her using him to help herself. Then their fight at the end which was too ridiculous to even watch. Add all of that with her complete b!tchassiness all episode and you've got the shell of the woman formerly known as Kate Austin. She was all over the place last night and couldn't find her own arse if she decided to kick it herself.

Although, Evi's acting was good, everything else was such a disappointment. Sorry Gregg, but too many inconsistencies for me to give this epi, especially after 3 amazing Emmy-worthy episodes, anymore than 2.5 stars. :frown:

holdin' Aaron

It's been a while since sex ed, but I don't think that's how babies are made.

and Ben practically handin' out sex advice to make them fall in love and make little Frimples...

How do Ben and falling in love even fit in the same sentence. Ew. Just... NO. I mean... I can't even imagine a couple who starts off with Ben as Cupid as a long lasting twu lurv.

Can you say, "severe continuity failure"!!!

Can you say redherring and hopefully abandoning the most embarrassing and downright disturbing plot so far (women who put out and get pregnant get killed whereas the men get SuperSwimmers from the Island. Good GRIEF! Somebody call a shrink!) for a more passable story involving the "must not be raised by another" baby? Cause that's the one good Kate-related thing that came out of the episode.

Sure Kate, don't trust the man on his knees ready to take a bullet for you.

I haven't rewatched I Do in a long time cause that's another embarrassing dud, but Pickett never threatened to shoot KATE as far as I remember. Sawyer was about to take a bullet cause Pickett was going to shoot HIM. Even so, I don't like either character and even I thought it was a little phoned in.

Regardless... Like I said, I had plenty to enjoy in this episode (Team Nerd playing memory games is one I forgot to mention), but I've been trying to rewatch online and man, it is ever boooooooring if you don't fastforward through 75% of it.

I didn't really pay attention to this last night because I kinda adore Ben pwning Locke, but the throwing dishes after Locke told him he knows what he's doing was repetitive and about as nonsensical as Saywer telling Karl to not let Ben get in his head and then falling for it the very next minute. Sawyer and Locke's learning curves are really pathetic. :yawn:

The episode left me with a ton of questions. And for the first time in a very long run of the episodes those were not questions like "Hey, Ben, you cunning plotter, WTH is with that cobweb of mistery you're spreading over the world" or "Why does Charlotte's name sound so strangely familiar" or "should I go grab a calculator and count exactly how much slower the time would be with what we know now".

This time the questions were completely different. For example, where did the beautiful way of intertwining FF's and present go? Where are any sort of smart parallels? Why is Sawyer's heart on his sleeve for all to tramp on it just a couple of days after he was all shelled up with disturbing thoughts which would have him brooding for weeks? Why is Kate acting like a bratty teenager? Is Claire suffering from some kind of memory loss, or is it a weird form of post-traumatic shock, maybe she simply denies Charlie is dead? Why is Jack so humiliatingly emo, he's much worse in the TTLG, but at least there he's plausible, heartbreaking, striking? Why is the rate of the lines that seemed lame to me at least, reaching it's highest point? Why do I get the feeling that pretty much every actor felt awkward about their parts?
And why is Sawyers hair straight one minute and to the side a second later?
And what's most important, exactly what am I being led to feel or believe, why don't I feel anything and can't relate to any of my favourite character actions anymore?
I love to love lost, and I love to hate lost, but what was absolutely unacceptable for me in this episode was the fact that it left me unmoved, untouched, undriven and unfeeling.

I tend to blame on the writing. Don't know for the sake of what pretty much every single scene was so grossly underdeveloped, raw and underthought. I got the feeling that I was watching an alpha version bad draft of what could turn out to be a shocker, a tear-jerker and an overall awesome episode. Kinda feels like being fed something rotten in hope that you're so hungry you'd just swallow anything and be happy.

Followed by her using him to help herself.

Since WHEN is that out of character for Kate? I get that shippers of both persuasions are pissed with her when she's mean to their Pookie and applaud her when she's mean to the opposite Pookie, but come on... give the girl some credit. She didn't become a coniving, self-serving, immature creature THIS episode. That at least has always been consistent.

I haven't rewatched I Do in a long time cause that's another embarrassing dud, but Pickett never threatened to shoot KATE as far as I remember. Sawyer was about to take a bullet cause Pickett was going to shoot HIM. Even so, I don't like either character and even I thought it was a little phoned in.



Well, maybe you should. Picket told Sawyer to let go and if he didn't Picket said, and I quote, "Let go, or I'll do her too." I'm not sure what your ship preference is, or if you just enjoy hating on Sawyer and Kate's relationship, but anything and everything Sawyer has done for Kate has been purely unselfish and loving. He would give up his very life for her, which is why I was so disappointed that the woman we were supposed to believe was Kate told him she didn't trust him. :mad:

I'm not sure what your ship preference is, or if you just enjoy hating on Sawyer and Kate's relationship

Dude, chill. It provides cheap entertainment every now and then, but omg, can you believe it some of us don't care about ships, least of all the ones involving Kate? I know!

After watching last night's episode, it's crystal clear that this stupid triangle/quadrangle needs to go. It sucks the life out of the show and ruins all the characters involved. Kate has been reduced to a human ping pong ball, Sawyer has lost his spine in regards to Kate ("James, go home!" and he does it immediately) and suddenly, TPTB are portraying Jack like a love sick little puppy which is totally unbelievable after the way they have written him in the first 3 seasons. The only character who hasn't been ruined so far is Juliet but who knows what they are going to do with her in the upcoming episodes. I'm already fearing and expecting the worst because she's the only strong female we have left. I must admit there are times when I'm actually getting the feeling TPTB want us to hate their male and female lead. I mean, Kate has such a condescending behavior towards Sawyer and I would like to know why she thinks that she's soooooo much better than him. He's a criminal, she's a criminal so where does her attitude come from? Then she gets off on all the charges in the future and doesn't have to go to jail and to make matters even worse, it looks as if she stole Aaron from Claire. Then we have Jack, who once again after lots of pining has another chance to finally bag Kate and he doesn't want it because of the baby? What am I supposed to think here? This is totally ridiculous and makes the characters look like idiots.

Then we have Claire and Hurley. Looks like it didn't take them long to get over Charlie's death. Claire has been reduced to a prob on this show so it shouldn't even come as a surprise to me that her reaction to her boyfriend's death gets reduced to a weak whimper and just 2 days later, everything is right with the world. It disgusts me. Same goes for Hurley who's now living happily in Otherville, enjoying the newest DVDs.

Last but not least I think it would be better for TPTB to not let Sarnoff write another scripts as lead writer in the near future. Nothing against her but many of her scripts have made the Hall of Fame of the worst Lost episodes in history. First SIASL, then LB and now Eggtown. It's hard to decide which one of the episodes is the worst but they are all bad, for various reasons. Also, Miss Sarnoff has played a huge part in the degradation of Kate's character. That stupid Skate argument in SIASL, the mud fight with Juliet in LB and now this bipolar portrayal of Kate's character in Eggtown. Like I said, I have nothing against Miss Sarnoff and when she teams up with a good writer she's capable of writing good scripts (TMBTC with Goddard comes to mind) but please, no more Sarnoff/Kim or Sarnoff/new writers combos.

Just like most of you, I thought the whole trial flashforward was very poorly done. Given the talent that LOST writers have shown in the past, they could have come up with something more beleivable and certainly more clever than that. I can suspend disbelief for some things, but that was a joke.

Are we supposed to assume that Aaron is one of the Oceanic 6?

Since WHEN is that out of character for Kate? I get that shippers of both persuasions are pissed with her when she's mean to their Pookie and applaud her when she's mean to the opposite Pookie, but come on... give the girl some credit. She didn't become a coniving, self-serving, immature creature THIS episode. That at least has always been consistent.

Look, I may be a Sawyer and Kate fan, but first and foremost I love Kate. If she ends up with nobody at the end, I hope everyone can just be happy. What is OOC concerning her behavior last night is that, yeah, she's a conniving manipulating witch sometimes, but with good reason. Since the show began, she's grown to be caring and loyal and trustworthy. She wouldn't leave Sawyer in the cages, she wouldn't leave Jack behind, she wouldn't let Claire go out on her own. If she needs something, she does whatever she can to get it. BUT, I would love for someone to give me one instance where Kate has intentionally tried to screw over someone she cares about? Last night was a disgrace and I wish "Eggtown" never happened.



Dude, chill. It provides cheap entertainment every now and then, but omg, can you believe it some of us don't care about ships, least of all the ones involving Kate? I know!

Look, I've got no beefs with non-shippers, but the way you contested Lisa's argument about Kate not trusting Sawyer being completely out of character considering the guy would die for her sounded a little, I don't know, Jater-like I guess? Either way, one would think that the guy that was ready to fight for both of your lives then dropped to his knees ready to die at the possibility that you might die too deserves some trust, don't ya think?

Oh, and what has this show done to Sun? She's now a lying cheat who refers to her and Jin's baby as "my baby". How am I supposed to care for these characters if they act this way? I can't believe this episode upsets me so much but it does.

Oh, and what has this show done to Sun? She's now a lying cheat who refers to her and Jin's baby as "my baby". How am I supposed to care for these characters if they act this way? I can't believe this episode upsets me so much but it does.

I knew I was forgetting someone in my OOC-ness post. It's such a complete 180 from her attitude lately. What is Sun thinking? :mad:

I hope the show can come back from this.

Oh, and what has this show done to Sun? She's now a lying cheat who refers to her and Jin's baby as "my baby". How am I supposed to care for these characters if they act this way? I can't believe this episode upsets me so much but it does.

I no longer care for any of the season one originals because with the possible exception of Hurley none of them are turning out to be remotely likeable or sympathetic. Even Desmond is on probation with me. I'm turning my energies to the freighties.

Que puedo desir de este capitulo de Lost?

Oh I'm sorry, for a moment there I had a latin soap opera moment, much like Lost did last night. Where do I even begin? Charlie's dead, but Claire is just fine and dandy, chatting with Kate and doing laundry in a scene that seemed to come out of a sitcom, Hurley's watching Xanadu:confused: and giving Sawyer a wink - the latest show trademark, Sun isn't sure Jin's the father of her baby - where did that come from? Why did the story have to go there? Apparently every woman on the island has to have a second love interest for some reason. Cheating is the new "happily ever after". Then Sawyer and Kate are acting completely out of character and they were (and I can't believe I'm saying this) unlikable at times. And this is coming from a die hard SKater. Kate aka The Human Ping Pong Ball comes off as Angelina Jolie's character in "Girl, Interruted" suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder, add a tinge of Schizophrenia and off her meds for the last couple of days. First she wakes Sawyer up with kisses, 2 seconds later she slaps the living daylights out of him. It's "I don't trust you" one moment, then she goes to him for help. I don't get Kate at all and I'd be surprised if anyone did. Character and storyline inconsistency galore this episode and not only for Kate.
The courtroom scenes were laughable and completely unrealistic. The lines "that was very moving Dr. Shepard" and "do you love the defendant" seemed to be copy-pasted out of a really, really bad pulp fiction novel. Kate getting only 10 years of probation for that long list of infractions is an insult to any person who has a minimum of Law knowledge.
And to make things worse the editing didn't help either. Actually it made this episode look like an amateur project, especially Sawyer and Kate's morning scene.
All in all an unlikable, unenjoyable episode. The Aaron part was cool, but by that time I was way to upset to enjoy it.

I hate kate so much. I wish they would kill her off. I don't get why people like the triangle. They might as well kill off Sawyer as well. All he does is take crap from Kate. Maybe they can send these two over to desperate housewives where they belong.

The whole thing with Locke running around desperate to find someone to tell him what to do is also very sad. I think the writers want us to not like the Losties.

Now that I think about it, we shouldn't be in the least bit surprised that they are handling Claire's reaction to Charlie's death so poorly. After all, we never got a scene that showed us Sun coping with killing Colleen. Nothing. We also didn't get a reaction from Juliet after betraying her own people and getting at least 10 of them killed in the process. I guess she mourned them by burying them but they cut that scene from the episode so the biggest part of the audience didn't get to see it. So it doesn't surprise me at all that Claire, Hurley and Sawyer are back to minding their business as if nothing ever happened.

I keep thinking that this episode was so bad it deserves to be riffed by the crew of The Satellite of Love (Nelson, Crow T. Robot and Tom Servo).

Where are those nanites when you need them?

I wasnt impressed with it either. I felt like we had been short changed frankly. With the promos last week, Skate, with the whole Kate might be pregnant thing last season, even the Ben and Miles scene was a let down. The least they could have done was give us some info on Ben. But no, instead all we learn is Miles is good at blackmailing. And Kate gets off scott free for murder after all that running. Big whoop.

And is it just me or did it seem like Kate was on crack? Ive never seen her bounce around as much as I did in this episode. I dont hate her, but definately dont like her for her immature and radical behavior, especially towards Sawyer and her mother for what they both did.

There were a few good moments in this episode--Locke feeding Miles a grenade for breakfast, Sawyer seeing through Kate's amateurish scam attempt, the "I unbanish you" scene. But the rest of it was just a mess. I don't want a whole lot of weeping and wailing scenes, and I thought it was reasonable that during the first few episodes they were on the move, scared, no time for indulging in feelings. But Claire and Hurley were just a little too normal. I'm used to Kate not being consistent from episode to episode, but it's rare that she's so inconsistent and hard to understand within the bounds of one episode.

And the flashforwards...ugh. The whole trial-exoneration storyline was just terrible. This is Lost, we accept all sorts of freaky things happening on the island. But the trial story was unbelievable and absurd. And the Aaron reveal. Yes, a big wtf. But I don't see how they can make this story believable, even within the confines of Lost world.

Just overall bad. Really disappointing after how strong the first episodes were, and especially last week's. And bad in ways that makes me worry about just how terrible the ultimate resolution of Lost might really be.

Que puedo desir de este capitulo de Lost?

Oh I'm sorry, for a moment there I had a latin soap opera moment, much like Lost did last night. Where do I even begin? Charlie's dead, but Claire is just fine and dandy, chatting with Kate and doing laundry in a scene that seemed to come out of a sitcom, Hurley's watching Xanadu:confused: and giving Sawyer a wink - the latest show trademark, Sun isn't sure Jin's the father of her baby - where did that come from? Why did the story have to go there? Apparently every woman on the island has to have a second love interest for some reason. Cheating is the new "happily ever after". Then Sawyer and Kate are acting completely out of character and they were (and I can't believe I'm saying this) unlikable at times. And this is coming from a die hard SKater. Kate aka The Human Ping Pong Ball comes off as Angelina Jolie's character in "Girl, Interruted" suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder, add a tinge of Schizophrenia and off her meds for the last couple of days. First she wakes Sawyer up with kisses, 2 seconds later she slaps the living daylights out of him. It's "I don't trust you" one moment, then she goes to him for help. I don't get Kate at all and I'd be surprised if anyone did. Character and storyline inconsistency galore this episode and not only for Kate.
The courtroom scenes were laughable and completely unrealistic. The lines "that was very moving Dr. Shepard" and "do you love the defendant" seemed to be copy-pasted out of a really, really bad pulp fiction novel. Kate getting only 10 years of probation for that long list of infractions is an insult to any person who has a minimum of Law knowledge.
And to make things worse the editing didn't help either. Actually it made this episode look like an amateur project, especially Sawyer and Kate's morning scene.
All in all an unlikable, unenjoyable episode. The Aaron part was cool, but by that time I was way to upset to enjoy it.

Gotta say, this is a great post...you summed up EVERYTHING that went wrong for me with this atrocious episode. The characters we know & love were nowhere to be seen, Kate was acting like a complete psycho, and I felt so sad that Claire has already put Charlie out of her mind. Bad, bad, bad. Do the writers honestly not bother to focus on any sort of continuity or the small details with a show as intricate as Lost? :frown:

Just overall bad. Really disappointing after how strong the first episodes were, and especially last week's. And bad in ways that makes me worry about just how terrible the ultimate resolution of Lost might really be.

That's a good point. If they can't even figure out a believable resolution to Kate's fugitive situation, I fear for the more important mysteries still out there. I'm prepared to be disappointed now though so that's something.

And what happened to all those other people who went with Locke? Did they just disapear? Russo, Ben's daughter and her boyfriend have been nowhere to be seen.

Sorry for all the questions but I am starting to get lost watching Lost.

Well on the realistic side, some of those actors received offers far superior than the 5-minute-every-season role they got on lost. I believe Rousseau in particular will be a problem I read somewhere.

On the off side, this does mean for some GLARING holes in character visualisation. I mean, forget about those you mention, where the hell are Rose and Bernard? They didn't want to follow Locke, but they're not with Jack, so we're supposed to believe the oldest couple of the losties stay behind in the jungle filled with a monster?

And let's not even go further and think about people like the guy with the rash, who hasn't been seen in 4 seasons.

What a lousy episode.

Kate has graduated from annoying and useless to extremely annoying and useless. Have any of her schemes ever worked out? Did we really need another sex scene? Did we really need another post-sex sex scene? Did we really need another episode in which she screws something up then mouths off to her lovers as if they're the ones to blame for all of her problems?

Locke's a great character, but his characterization is faltering. It's no fault of Terry's, mind you; he remains a great actor and, to me at least, understands the essence of Lockitude. It's the writing. To echo my problems with Kate, How many times are we going to see Locke go through these same motions? Locke has an "awakening," Locke experiences a "rebirth" of sorts, Locke makes a bold move, Locke's bold move blows up in his face, Locke freaks out, Locke screws things up for everyone. Rinse, repeat. That line in the opening scene, the one about being in the same situation but a different room -- no kidding.

Sun. Someone needs to tell Yunjin she's over-acting. Or maybe under-acting. One of those two. And I hate to say it, but Jin might as well be dead, as he's even more useless than Kate is. Kate at least does things. Jin? Jin...exists....

Jack-beachies reunion scene. Haven't we had enough of these?! Dear writers, If you're going to keep putting this kind of scene in, at least give us something to cheer about. And no, "The sacred bond between kindred spirits something something love something something Thanksgiving" doesn't cut it. All Jack's done this season is throw a long temper tantrum and make it really, really, really well known that he has a chip or two on his shoulder (because this is totally news to the audience). All Juliet's done is look like she's smirking when she's not, in fact, smirking. (Or is she???) I see nothing to cheer about.

The reveal. My brother called it in the middle of the Kate-Claire clothesline convo.

My brother is 11.

It was not only predictable (arguably the most heavy-handed instance of foreshadowing I've ever seen in a prime-time TV show), but also innocuous. The Economist's ending was great because it, among other things, got the wheels turning in viewers' heads and offered a sense of progression, i.e. "At the beginning of the episode, we were at point A. By the end, we were at D. Or E. Or F. Maybe even Z! Wow, this is nuts!" But this reveal? I can't imagine an ardent Lost enthusiast not feeling cheated after seeing it. That pretty much goes for the whole episode.

The two episodes prior to this one built up a lot of momentum. This episode killed it.

Lame.

P.S. Answers. I'd like some plz.

The episode left me with a ton of questions. And for the first time in a very long run of the episodes those were not questions like "Hey, Ben, you cunning plotter, WTH is with that cobweb of mistery you're spreading over the world" or "Why does Charlotte's name sound so strangely familiar" or "should I go grab a calculator and count exactly how much slower the time would be with what we know now".

This time the questions were completely different. For example, where did the beautiful way of intertwining FF's and present go? Where are any sort of smart parallels? Why is Sawyer's heart on his sleeve for all to tramp on it just a couple of days after he was all shelled up with disturbing thoughts which would have him brooding for weeks? Why is Kate acting like a bratty teenager? Is Claire suffering from some kind of memory loss, or is it a weird form of post-traumatic shock, maybe she simply denies Charlie is dead? Why is Jack so humiliatingly emo, he's much worse in the TTLG, but at least there he's plausible, heartbreaking, striking? Why is the rate of the lines that seemed lame to me at least, reaching it's highest point? Why do I get the feeling that pretty much every actor felt awkward about their parts?
And why is Sawyers hair straight one minute and to the side a second later?
And what's most important, exactly what am I being led to feel or believe, why don't I feel anything and can't relate to any of my favourite character actions anymore?
I love to love lost, and I love to hate lost, but what was absolutely unacceptable for me in this episode was the fact that it left me unmoved, untouched, undriven and unfeeling.

I tend to blame on the writing. Don't know for the sake of what pretty much every single scene was so grossly underdeveloped, raw and underthought. I got the feeling that I was watching an alpha version bad draft of what could turn out to be a shocker, a tear-jerker and an overall awesome episode. Kinda feels like being fed something rotten in hope that you're so hungry you'd just swallow anything and be happy.

Could not have said it better. I bolded the parts that have dawned on me after trying to sort through what is bothering me more than anything regarding my disappointment in this episode. The episode felt like no one really thought it through, and didn't care to try. The actors did their best to bring it to life, but couldn't quite pull it off because they weren't feeling it.

The only two characters that didn't seem off were Juliet and Benry. Oh, and Miles...his comment to Kate when she shoved him up against the wall, "This is hot!" :biglaugh:

Can i just say that the Freighties are evolving to be the best characters of this season? and a bit reminiscent of the triangle characters back in their good old days?

i somehow see

Daniel as Jack , Charlotte as Kate and Miles as Sawyer...not neccesarily their characters are similar but in my mind they are becoming equally important and more pleasant at this point...IMHO always.

I hope that some of what is writen here gets through...but after SIASL the same writer did continue to write apparently...

i saw the mess that this ep is properly not from tube and stuff and left me totally cold...like totally....only the baby thing touched me a bit...cause i have a soft spot for babies ...

the skate scenes were hiddeous and the jate ones i was dreading were equally awful.so even though im a dissapointed skater i dont see anything the jaters should be cheering about either. but if they are content with the possibility of jate happening in the last season then by all means...more power to 'em ;)

from my part i hope when sawyer gets his episode , his story wont land in the hands of either nations or sharnoff!!!!!:frown:

Can i just say that the Freighties are evolving to be the best characters of this season?

Agreed -- although I'd have to add Ben to that list. Because Ben is hardcore.

I'm actually not too fond of the Charlotte character (yet). But Miles and Daniel have been surprisingly solid in terms of both writing and acting. Frank's been alright. I'm eager to see what the next episode holds in store for him.

Oh darling...Ben is always the top of the tops...i just excluded him cause i was only talking about the new characters we were introduced this season ;)

After last week, I was feeling that LOST was _not_ going to take the "Twin Peaks" method of telling a story.. that is treating the audience as idiots and not offering anything. I could skip episodes of TP and not miss anything. Decided it was a soap opera and stopped watching.

Please don't do that to LOST.

But week after week I am just left yelling at the TV screen when a character doesn't ask the next logical question. You have to start sharing some secrets.. or you'll loose more of the audience.

There have to be some "set-up" episodes.. but why can't they have some good info too?

Claire and Hurley seemed too chipper for just having lost Charlie.

The trial was just not believable. Prosecution witnesses speaking to the defendant? Going from 15 years to nothing for murder, bank robbery, and arson. Saying nothing of why a child (even if it is hers) would be left in her care.

C-


D/

I did like Ben, but he's now stuck in an endless character loop like Locke is. he's becoming one note, even though he seems more interesting in the future. Really, the freighties are the only reason I'm still watching. Well, that and I feel like I'm entitled to my answers.

Definitely the worst episode of season 4 yet and for me personally the worst episode ever. It just feels so far removed from what we've come to know as 'LOST'. All these little quips about living in their make believe town are starting to grate. I really dislike these flashforwards as well, people have already mentioned the courtroom errors.

In the meantime Kate's entire island thread was pointless and that scene with Locke smashing the plate and the camera cutting apparently to Henry Gale just made me feel that the writers take us for fools - that scene is now a LOST cliché and I felt the collective 'Oh God No' of every viewer when it occurred.

How UnLOSTIAN an episode.

Kate is destroying Sawyer and I hate that.

Aaron is Claire's child. I hated it when he called Kate mommy. Claire is Aaron's mum, not her. I hate that storyline.

The reveal. My brother called it in the middle of the Kate-Claire clothesline convo.

My brother is 11.


:biglaugh: This cracked me RIGHT the hell up! But it illustrates a great point, of exactly how bad the writing was for this episode.

Fail.

Aaron is Claire's child. I hated it when he called Kate mommy. Claire is Aaron's mum, not her. I hate that storyline.
This bothered me a great deal too, especially after the prophecy that Aaron must not be raised by another.

This bothered me a great deal too, especially after the prophecy that Aaron must not be raised by another.

I was thinking of that too, workingmom. It appears that this episode completely negates the entire storyline of Raised By Another, which doesn't really surprise me, since the continuity in this episode was down the toilet.

I am just absolutely shocked. I can't even imagine how this mess was allowed to air.

Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful.

It appears that this episode completely negates the entire storyline of Raised By Another, which doesn't really surprise me, since the continuity in this episode was down the toilet.


Does it really negate the Raised by Another storyline or simply bring it to the forefront? You're assuming Kate is going to live happily ever after as an LA Soccer mom, but come on, we know Jack isn't going to allow that happen. "We have to go back" means "Me, you and Aaron".

I didn't care for this episode, but mainly because of the trial and because of Kate ending up with Aaron. IMO, Kate's behavior was very much in character as were the other characters, with the exception of Sawyer, but Sawyer seems to have given up, taken Ben's words to heart and accepted his fate as an island dweller so he's really not so out of character, his attempting to convince Kate to join in his misery has pretty much been his MO since season 1. Yes, I think he loves her as much as Sawyer is capable of loving anyone or anything, but he is still very much an EMFH individual.

If I remember correctly, they way it happened with SIASL was by the time they saw the edit and realized the episode didn't work, it was too late to do anything about it. They admitted it was weak almost immediately after it aired. I'm very curious to know what they think of this then, whether they consider it to be another mistake that they just didn't have the time to fix. Sometimes the script looks good, but the execution is bad and Darlton don't know that until they see the first cut. Then they try to fix things in the edit but that's really all they can do at that point. IMO, they should have known they had a problem at the script stage but who knows.

After this run of terrible Sarnoff episodes, you'd think she'd be off staff. Of course, she did work on Crossing Jordan with Damon, so maybe they are friends. I'm now convinced that David Milch rewrote all her four Deadwood episodes, because they were all brilliant.

Cardie

Yeah, I'm assuming she took the lead role in this since it was Gregg's first script. And judging by her track record, I place most of the blame on her. I'm surprised she's still around.

Does it really negate the Raised by Another storyline or simply bring it to the forefront?

Yes, it brings it to the front and it negates it. If Kate is raising Aaron and referring to him as "her son" then obviously the psychic's words about Claire being the only one to raise Aaron are forgotten, and the story line appears to have been negated.

You're assuming Kate is going to live happily ever after as an LA Soccer mom,

No I'm not assuming that. I'm actually hoping Kate is miserable in the future but considering Kate is only interested in saving her own precious hide, I'm sure something will happen to send her running again, baby in tow.

but come on, we know Jack isn't going to allow that happen. "We have to go back" means "Me, you and Aaron".

Well that's definately a stretch, especially given the "no coffee until you accept my son" conversation.

Yeah, I'm assuming she took the lead role in this since it was Gregg's first script.

Perhaps it should be the last, though I blame Sarnoff for the most of it too.

After these last 2 episodes, I think the compression of 8 episodes into 5 can only be a good thing.

The on-island story has been at a stand-still now for two weeks. The only major plot-advancing event was the helicopter leaving the island. If they had cut the whole Kate-with-Team-Locke storyline and just had Miles get discovered by Locke's group to begin with, *POOF!* not a single thing would have been different between now and the end of Confirmed Dead.

And I hate them reusing the same old plot points over and over. Locke getting manipulated by the captive Ben again?? And why are they keeping him alive, after all he's done, if he's still not sharing his information?

I think the scariest thing is they're going to fold those three extra episodes into Season 5 & 6. Three more extraneous episodes relying solely on repetitive soap opera just to fill in the space between significant plot points.

Yeah, I'm assuming she took the lead role in this since it was Gregg's first script. And judging by her track record, I place most of the blame on her. I'm surprised she's still around.

I didn't quite "love" this episode, so I reserve the right to post here. :) Just out of curiousity, are you and Cardie saying you didn't like Man Behind the Curtain and Left Behind? I had to look it up when I read that...and here's this post.

I was thinking of that too, workingmom. It appears that this episode completely negates the entire storyline of Raised By Another, which doesn't really surprise me, since the continuity in this episode was down the toilet.

I am just absolutely shocked. I can't even imagine how this mess was allowed to air.

Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. I think it doesn't ignore it but points out how this seemingly nice setup for Kate is wrong, just as Hurley is supposed to be free and Sayid swore he'd never harm someone for a master again.

And imagine what Claire would feel if she heard Aaron call Kate "mommy."

(Heh, well lots of people on the fuse call me mom but I trust their real moms wouldn't get upset...:rolleyes: )

If Kate is raising Aaron and referring to him as "her son" then obviously the psychic's words about Claire being the only one to raise Aaron are forgotten, and the story line appears to have been negated.The psychic admitted he was a fraud.

Actually, a "prophecy" is the one overused dramatic trope TPTB haven't dragged into their narrative, and I sincerely hope they keep it that way... The way this season is going, however, I wouldn't be surprised to discover otherwise.

I didn't quite "love" this episode, so I reserve the right to post here. :) Just out of curiousity, are you and Cardie saying you didn't like Man Behind the Curtain and Left Behind? I had to look it up when I read that...and here's this post.

I wasn't stating an opinion on every one of her scripts (though I admit I didn't much care for Left Behind). I was just stating that far and away the two worst episodes Lost has done were both hers. Coincidence?

I don't think I've ever seen a Didn't Love It thread this long... or this much fun.

At first, I Didn't Love It only a little. Now I Didn't Love It a lot more. I say, "Let's keep picking at it."

I don't think I've ever seen a Didn't Love It thread this long... or this much fun.

At first, I Didn't Love It only a little. Now I Didn't Love It a lot more. I say, "Let's keep picking at it."

Yea maybe the more we pick at it the more infected it'll get...:42fight:

That's a good point. If they can't even figure out a believable resolution to Kate's fugitive situation, I fear for the more important mysteries still out there. I'm prepared to be disappointed now though so that's something.

Hmmm...maybe I should too. Just that it would be a bit hard after dedicatedly sticking with this show for so long.

Also I cant understand how, many of the hardcore fans could not see the "big" reveal as being Aaron!!! Kate has a son. Aha! suspense. The cloth hanging scene with Claire talkin about 'mommy'....there it is....it wud be Aaron. So insipid.

So many things could have been saved here, just by some tweaking of the scenes. Kate's freedom courtesy heavy jury riggin by Ben & company or something like that. Cut out any scenes between Claire & Kate. That wud make the "son reveal" thing at least workable. Locke almost throwin the tray on the wall in fit of rage, but does not. We wud thus know he fell for Ben. But then Ben wudnt have. So that cheap scene.

Heck, Lost really has accelerated its incessant drive to lose the "intelligent show" tag. It all started Season 3 :frown:

Darlton nixed the "possible futures" scenario in the latest podcast.

That sucks.

Heck, Lost really has accelerated its incessant drive to lose the "intelligent show" tag. It all started Season 3 :frown:


Sorry to say, but it has already lost it. I now find it a guilty pleasure that I'm afraid to
admit I watch.

I didn't quite "love" this episode, so I reserve the right to post here. :) Just out of curiousity, are you and Cardie saying you didn't like Man Behind the Curtain and Left Behind? I had to look it up when I read that...and here's this post.

I liked TMBTC but I hated Left Behind. The on-island A-plot was all about Kate and Juliet (our 2 leading women) bickering over Jack, a mud-fight included. Not to mention all this "you broke his heart" crap. Yeah, Kate is all alone in the jungle with an Other and has a chance to finally ask some questions and get some pieces of information about them but all she asks about is if she really broke Jack's heart. It made both women look absolutely stupid.