Discuss the good and bad about the episode. If you totally loved the episode or totally didn't love the episode and do not wish to discuss the pros and cons, please visit the Loved it or Didn't Love it threads.

Enjoyed the episode, but Kate was absent!:frown:

Enjoyed the episode, but Kate was absent!:frown:

maybe thats why the episode was so good then!
she brings nothing to show except a boring love triangle.

the only thing i didn't like was desmond's hair lol

I don't know...I will be "writing home about it" for some time. ;)


I didn't get a Ben or John fix this week, but that is about all I can gripe about.
And that is reaching.

It was a good, solid episode, and it kept me engaged, but only one of my four favorites was present - Sayid. Hurley and Ben were nowhere to be found, and of course my number one favorite, Libby, might never grace an episode with her presence again. :( With only one character to really focus my fangirling on, it's harder to really love an episode, no matter how good it is.

I didn't like the fact that we didn't really learn anything for most of the episode.

We knew from last week (Faraday calling the thingy from the freighter) that there are weird time-issues around the island, but we got no closer to the questions I wanted answered:
who are the people on the freighter,
who sent them, and
why are they really there

On the other hand, I did like the fact that we now have even better reason to hope that Penny will rescue Desmond, supporting the theory that some people besides the official Oceanic 6 will escape from the island

We're talking about The Constant...let's go to Randy first...Randy?

Randy: Yo Dawg, wasup! I dunno dawg, it wasn't the best performance. I mean, like, if it was The Outer Limits or somethin...but no...wasn't happening for me tonight, it was ahrite, but not your best. I dunno. Paula?

Paula: Well, first off...let me say....you know I love you, and Damon, you look wonderful in that dress tonight, but it wasn't your best. But I still love you.

Simon: If I'm being honest, it was a rather "jump the shark" moment, now wasn't it. I mean, pointing a heat lamp at a rat....

Paula: Eloise.

Simon: Whatever. The point is, I felt like I was watching a karaoke version of the Twilight Zone or something. No..really. If I'm being honest.

Thats hilarious! Good job!

It was a pretty good episode with regards to Desmond (my god - he is hot with short hair) and Penny.
I am not too crazy about the time travel, back to the future story line...thats a little too trekie for my liking. But, okay the light device with Eloise - AYFKM? That was dumb to me!

Liked:
- Daniel. What a fantastic new character! Hope he sticks around for a while.
- There was a lot of heart in this episode... and hope. After the string of really dark ones, this one shone!
- Lots of tie-ins to season one episodes... the "sickness"... The Black Rock... the numbers.
- The fact that I was thoroughly entertained and tied to my seat even though some things were waaay too complicated to understand with a single viewing. We have to watch that again!! :)
- Did I mention before how nicely the Losties clean up? Never more obvious with clean-shaven Des vs. Grizzly-Adams Des.

Didn't Like:
- Not much, really. One big thing that I didn't quite get and really bothered me (but then again, maybe that's just me, lol) was: If time IS slower on The Island, how come the same amount of days have passed on the freighter? Shouldn't LESS days have passed on the ship? :confused:

ETA:
- yeah... forgot to mention the "light" that made the rat's consciousness time travel... 't would've been cooler if it was more purple (like when Des turned the fail-safe key), but maybe that looked lame in the final version.

Didn't Like:
- Not much, really. One big thing that I didn't quite get and really bothered me (but then again, maybe that's just me, lol) was: If time IS slower on The Island, how come the same amount of days have passed on the freighter? Shouldn't LESS days have passed on the ship? :confused:

It seems that time passes at the same speed whether your on the island or off of it, but the time distortion has a different effect depending on your direction.

Traveling TO the island adds a little to your journey - the rocket Faraday summoned showed up a few minutes after the freighter's sensors said it did - sort of like taking a 1 and 1/2 hour flight from East to West, you leave at 2:00 and arrive at 2:30 in the earlier time zone.

Traveling FROM the island has the opposite effect - the chopper with Sayid and Desmond arrives at the freighter the next day - sort of like taking a 1 and 1/2 hour flight from West to East, you leave at 2:00 and arrive at 4:30 in the later time zone.

We're talking about The Constant...let's go to Randy first...Randy?

Randy: Yo Dawg, wasup! I dunno dawg, it wasn't the best performance. I mean, like, if it was The Outer Limits or somethin...but no...wasn't happening for me tonight, it was ahrite, but not your best. I dunno. Paula?

Paula: Well, first off...let me say....you know I love you, and Damon, you look wonderful in that dress tonight, but it wasn't your best. But I still love you.

Simon: If I'm being honest, it was a rather "jump the shark" moment, now wasn't it. I mean, pointing a heat lamp at a rat....

Paula: Eloise.

Simon: Whatever. The point is, I felt like I was watching a karaoke version of the Twilight Zone or something. No..really. If I'm being honest.

Duuuude, that was funny!!

Anyway, me being scientifically-challenged, I was a bit confused about the time travel thing because whenever you introduce time travel into a storyline you end up opening a can of worms - trying to tie things together and explain them all in the end, I mean. But if TPTB are up to that challenge, then shoot!

(my gut instinct is that time traveling is only one of many mysterious unexplained aspects of the Island ... and is not the be all and end all of "why" the Losties are stuck there. i hope i'm right)

I'm SO glad though, for the Des-Penny story arc and I really want to see more of it develop in future episodes. And slowly - like piece by piece - learning a bit more about the dynamics of the freighter folks. Plus! Looks like tensions on the beach are building up, eh?

Onwards!

Loved:

1. The Black Rock mention. I'm a sucker for that story and I'm still hoping for LOST in period costumes with a flashback to 1845.

2. That they basically covered a huge part of Daniel's backstory in someone else's episode, thus freeing up an episode this season.

3. Frank. I love The Dude.

4. That Minkowski died. His voice acting with Naomi over the phone freightened me in TBTOE, I'm so glad he met his maker fast.

5. That it was much better than FBYE because the writers actually clued in their non-message board audience about Desmond's timetraveling adventures. His MIND goes back in time, you cannot change the future, radiation+leaving the Island=need for a Constant, etc.

6. That it gave us so much to talk about and spurred the coolest theory about the Oceanic Six so far.

7. NO KATE. So, so very grateful for that.

8. Juliet/Jack vs. Charlotte/Daniel. "Why don't you speak slowly so we can understand" Hehe. Loved it.

9. Did I mention how happy I am Kate wasn't in it?


Not so much:

1. That I went to bed at midnight and had no desire to rewatch it. Timetravel is not my thing. I can enjoy it when it's a wellwritten story like this episode, but I just want them to get it over with so we can move on.

2. I stopped caring about Desmond and Penny with that flashback where she's like: "I'm a cute, rich chick and I love you and WANT TO BE WITH YOU" and he's all like: "Noouh, ay need to prooov mah worth" and takes off on a stupid race around the world... I don't find that sympathetic or romantic, I find it retarded. The scene was nice, but I thought the quick cuts with neverending I Love Yous were just a bit too cheesy.

I don't really have any major complaints about this episode and I enjoyed it, but I don't think it gave us anything monumental just a good stepping stone for upcoming plots.

aeasmmikey -

Traveling TO the island adds a little to your journey - the rocket Faraday summoned showed up a few minutes after the freighter's sensors said it did - sort of like taking a 1 and 1/2 hour flight from East to West, you leave at 2:00 and arrive at 2:30 in the earlier time zone.

Traveling FROM the island has the opposite effect - the chopper with Sayid and Desmond arrives at the freighter the next day - sort of like taking a 1 and 1/2 hour flight from West to East, you leave at 2:00 and arrive at 4:30 in the later time zone.

Oooh... this theory DOES make total sense. Thank you so much for answering. I will keep this in mind for future episodes and as we get more clues!

aeasmmikey -

Oooh... this theory DOES make total sense. Thank you so much for answering. I will keep this in mind for future episodes and as we get more clues!

Petragrrl - It's just a guess, but it feels right.
If on-island and off-island time do not pass at the same rate, how would Jack and Sayid be able to talk on the phones?

Haven't rewatched it yet, but what was the purpose of Desmond's jumping? Seems like it was just an excuse to get him to call Penny. She had already been looking for him by that point--she started that before his race--she already knew about the island, and she already knew that he was there when she talked to Charlie. It just seemed kind of unnecessary. I get that he had to call her so his brain wouldn't get fried, but if they hadn't introduced this jumping in the first place, he wouldn't have had to do it. Kinda of like creating a problem just to show the solution.

I'm afraid that they've introduced paradoxes that have made the time travel aspects of the show even messier. Desmond went to Faraday and Penny in 1996 because of information that he recieved in 2004. Desmond then gave information from 2004 Faraday to 1996 Faraday that allowed him to build his time machine. This precipitates his involvement in the expedition to the Island. The same goes for Penny. Desmond gets the idea to call her from 2004 Faraday, asks her for her phone number in 1996, then calls her in 2004. She expects it, only because that information came from the future. So if Desmond is passing information back and forth between the past and the future, he sould have already known everything that was going to happen up to the point where he leaves the island. Having him only selectively recall information from the future like Penny's number or Faraday's numbers is a cop-out.

Reliving the past like Desmond did in FBYE is one thing, but having interactions between the past and future and passing information back and forth between the two creates paradoxes and other problems that are simply not necessary.

Haven't rewatched it yet, but what was the purpose of Desmond's jumping? Seems like it was just an excuse to get him to call Penny...

I'm afraid that they've introduced paradoxes that have made the time travel aspects of the show even messier...

Reliving the past like Desmond did in FBYE is one thing, but having interactions between the past and future and passing information back and forth between the two creates paradoxes and other problems that are simply not necessary.

I agree. I plan to watch it again before giving it my final review, but two things jump out at me from reading messages on the various threads (especially the “Loved It” thread):

1) There is no way this was a 10 (or more), or the best episode ever. Remember people- last week WAS the worst episode ever. Coming off Eggtown will tend to inflate the euphoria.
2) The time travel aspect is definitely going to be extremely tough to pull off, especially this early- still 40 episodes to go. It creates all sorts of circular problems (like pibbsneaker pointed out very well) as well as the question that jumped into my head, watching it the first time: When Penny met Des by the stadium back in S2- I think (when Des and Jack met running stares), why wouldn’t she have said something like, “Well, I guess I’ll wait for your call on Christmas Eve, 2004, then.” If someone came to you and asked for your phone number, but then said he wouldn’t call for 8 years- this would kind of stick in your head if/when you saw that person from that point on. This is the problem with time travel plots- you open up a LOT of potential problems in logic.

But, I’m going to watch it again and give a rating from there. I can state this right now, however; the pace of the episode was excellent- just as it should be, when we only have about 40 left. No wasted time on stupid reunions on the beach, triangle nonsense and Hurley watching Xanadu. It was all just focusing on the story at hand for a change.

Other information we were given by Frank -- the satellite phones can only communicate with each other - not the outside world. The reason why Sayid has never seen such a device is likely because they were created for this trip only. Those phones are linked to each other in a manner that allows real time communication despite the time differential that exists.

I liked the episode, however there were major problems with it. It felt like a jigsaw with pieces jammed into the wrong place... I dislike Desmond anyway... Overall it felt like an episode of a drama not one of Lost. It missed something quite major and I cant put my finger on it... (an island maybe, and more cast...)

I agree. I plan to watch it again before giving it my final review, but two things jump out at me from reading messages on the various threads (especially the “Loved It” thread):

1) There is no way this was a 10 (or more), or the best episode ever. Remember people- last week WAS the worst episode ever. Coming off Eggtown will tend to inflate the euphoria.
2) The time travel aspect is definitely going to be extremely tough to pull off, especially this early- still 40 episodes to go. It creates all sorts of circular problems (like pibbsneaker pointed out very well) as well as the question that jumped into my head, watching it the first time: When Penny met Des by the stadium back in S2- I think (when Des and Jack met running stares), why wouldn’t she have said something like, “Well, I guess I’ll wait for your call on Christmas Eve, 2004, then.” If someone came to you and asked for your phone number, but then said he wouldn’t call for 8 years- this would kind of stick in your head if/when you saw that person from that point on. This is the problem with time travel plots- you open up a LOT of potential problems in logic.

But, I’m going to watch it again and give a rating from there. I can state this right now, however; the pace of the episode was excellent- just as it should be, when we only have about 40 left. No wasted time on stupid reunions on the beach, triangle nonsense and Hurley watching Xanadu. It was all just focusing on the story at hand for a change.

I look at the time travel in a different way which, I think, helps resolve some of the issues you are discussing.

The FIRST time Jack and Desmond are running stairs, which is what we witness, Desmond has not yet gone back in time, so he and Penny would not talk about the appointment for a 2004 phone call.

Then Desmond time-jumps to 1996 to talk to Penny and setup the appointment.

The SECOND time Jack and Desmond run the stairs, which we do not witness, it is possible that Penny and Desmond would talk about the appointment for a 2004 phone call. On the other hand, Penny could also decide not to visit Desmond at the stairs the second time around because the phone call appointment freaked her out.

Things would be different the second time through, but we only saw flashback-moments the FIRST time through, before the time-jump affected them.

The only thing we saw both before and after the time-jump is the journal, which did not have the message about Desmond in it the first time around.

I realize as I say this that there is a flaw in my logic - Faraday seems surprised to see the note about Desmond being his constant, which he wouldn't be if the time-jump re-wrote history.
->BUT maybe the island somehow preserved the Faraday from the first time around, so he didn't change
->BUT why didn't it also preserve the original journal?


I'm just glad Jack came back and became a Secret Service agent so he could save President William Hurt's life.:)

I think people overestimate the power of love. I think it's too much to expect Penny to be constantly carrying this promise of a phone call from Des sometime in the future. Would she even remember the date? He was writing stuff on his hands to keep his head from exploding. She had no reason to take notes. And why bring it up every time they meet. Her stalking him is the flip side of his crazy promise to call her eight years from then, not before, not after.

I think people overestimate the power of love. I think it's too much to expect Penny to be constantly carrying this promise of a phone call from Des sometime in the future. Would she even remember the date? He was writing stuff on his hands to keep his head from exploding. She had no reason to take notes. And why bring it up every time they meet. Her stalking him is the flip side of his crazy promise to call her eight years from then, not before, not after.

I think you're looking at this the wrong way:
__1) Imagine that the love of your life breaks up with you, without giving you a reason, then runs away to join the army.
__2) A few weeks (maybe months?) later, the same person tries to find you to tell you they made a mistake and shouldn't have broken up with you.

Not so strange so far - you probably broke up with someone and wanted to change your mind afterwards, or had it happen to you.

__3) Now your ex arrives at your door and says they want your number to call you in eight years on Christmas Eve.

Whether you still want them back or not, wouldn't that date stick in your head just because it is such a weird thing to happen? Wouldn't you tell all your frinds about it, making it an even more significant memory?

__4) Now 4-5 more years go by (he's been missing for three years and he got her number 8 years earlier), and you decide you want your ex back, but your ex wants to take a sailing trip around the world first.

Wouldn't you ask your ex to just stay with you and give up the sailing trip? You might not bring up the phone call, because it would remond you both that your ex made a vow to not call until then, but maybe you would bring it up to let them off the hook and take the promise back.

__5) Now your ex disappears; doesn't finish the race, doesn't show up needing repairs at another port, nothing. For three years.

Wouldn't you get fixated on that crazy promise as more time went by and there were fewer and fewer other reasons to still have hope?

I've known people who promised to hook-up at their 10-year high school reunion if both were still single. They didn't follow through, but they remembered, even though they were not in love and none of them dropped off the face of the earth for three years.

I look at the time travel in a different way which, I think, helps resolve some of the issues you are discussing.

The FIRST time Jack and Desmond are running stairs, which is what we witness, Desmond has not yet gone back in time, so he and Penny would not talk about the appointment for a 2004 phone call.

Then Desmond time-jumps to 1996 to talk to Penny and setup the appointment.

The SECOND time Jack and Desmond run the stairs, which we do not witness, it is possible that Penny and Desmond would talk about the appointment for a 2004 phone call. On the other hand, Penny could also decide not to visit Desmond at the stairs the second time around because the phone call appointment freaked her out.

Things would be different the second time through, but we only saw flashback-moments the FIRST time through, before the time-jump affected them.

The only thing we saw both before and after the time-jump is the journal, which did not have the message about Desmond in it the first time around.

I realize as I say this that there is a flaw in my logic - Faraday seems surprised to see the note about Desmond being his constant, which he wouldn't be if the time-jump re-wrote history.
->BUT maybe the island somehow preserved the Faraday from the first time around, so he didn't change
->BUT why didn't it also preserve the original journal?...


You’re argument doesn’t hold up- by your own admission, due to logic.

Time travel is time travel. It still presents the same paradoxes and circular problems in logic. For instance, the 1996 conversation of Des and Penny had to be real; otherwise, Des wouldn’t know Penny’s phone number in 2004 and she wouldn’t be expecting his call on Christmas Eve, 2004. It doesn’t matter if just his mind supposedly traveled in time, or what “viewing” we are watching of Des and Jack running stairs- the time travel problems still exist.

You’re argument doesn’t hold up- by your own admission, due to logic.

Time travel is time travel. It still presents the same paradoxes and circular problems in logic. For instance, the 1996 conversation of Des and Penny had to be real; otherwise, Des wouldn’t know Penny’s phone number in 2004 and she wouldn’t be expecting his call on Christmas Eve, 2004. It doesn’t matter if just his mind supposedly traveled in time, or what “viewing” we are watching of Des and Jack running stairs- the time travel problems still exist.

I agree that Desmond (or his mind - whatever) actually traveled back to 1996.

The time travel problems do not exist however because to the outside observer, there are two different time-streams.

In the first time-stream, Desmond never asked Penny for her phone number when she moved, and he did not promise to call her in 2004. When we saw her arrive at the stadium where he was about to start running, she did not bring up the 2004 appointment for the phone call because it did not yet exist.

When he time-jumped back to 1996 he created a second time-stream, in which (A) he had asked for her number (B) the appointment now existed and (C) Faraday had met him.

I was reacting to MarcB's comment about why Penny didn't refer to the phone call appointment when she met Desmond at the stadium, and simply put, it hadn't happened yet.

.....the question that jumped into my head, watching it the first time: When Penny met Des by the stadium back in S2- I think (when Des and Jack met running stares), why wouldn’t she have said something like, “Well, I guess I’ll wait for your call on Christmas Eve, 2004, then.” If someone came to you and asked for your phone number, but then said he wouldn’t call for 8 years- this would kind of stick in your head if/when you saw that person from that point on.....

I agree that Desmond (or his mind - whatever) actually traveled back to 1996.

The time travel problems do not exist however because to the outside observer, there are two different time-streams.

In the first time-stream, Desmond never asked Penny for her phone number when she moved, and he did not promise to call her in 2004. When we saw her arrive at the stadium where he was about to start running, she did not bring up the 2004 appointment for the phone call because it did not yet exist.

When he time-jumped back to 1996 he created a second time-stream, in which (A) he had asked for her number (B) the appointment now existed and (C) Faraday had met him.

I was reacting to MarcB's comment about why Penny didn't refer to the phone call appointment when she met Desmond at the stadium, and simply put, it hadn't happened yet.

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. For me, there cannot be two separate time streams. Once you open that door of time travel, it has to be logical and realistic IMO. For example, in the Star Trek IV movie (going back in time to save the whales- yikes), there was a funny exchange between Bones and Scotty about if they give some guy the formula for creating some super-thin material for creating a tank for the whales- Bones: “We’re altering the future.” Scotty replies: “How do we know he (the guy) didn’t invent it?” So they smile and go ahead and give the guy the formula and we have a good laugh. That worked (even though I’m not a big Star Trek fan and especially wasn’t a fan of that movie).

If you can go back and alter things, selectively (via separate time streams), that’s simply a cop-out by TPTB and quite frankly, just lame. If Des can go back to 1996 and get Penny’s phone number, but then that meeting has no consequence on future meetings between the two (like the expected phone call in 2004)- as well as with others- like daddy Widmore waiting for Des when he is released from prison, which motivates Des to compete in the race around the world, which leads to the meeting I originally mentioned in my post between Des and Penny (at the stadium, before Des begins running stares), that’s just illogical and totally lame, IMO.

Well, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. For me, there cannot be two separate time streams. Once you open that door of time travel, it has to be logical and realistic IMO. For example, in the Star Trek IV movie (going back in time to save the whales- yikes), there was a funny exchange between Bones and Scotty about if they give some guy the formula for creating some super-thin material for creating a tank for the whales- Bones: “We’re altering the future.” Scotty replies: “How do we know he (the guy) didn’t invent it?” So they smile and go ahead and give the guy the formula and we have a good laugh. That worked (even though I’m not a big Star Trek fan and especially wasn’t a fan of that movie).

If you can go back and alter things, selectively (via separate time streams), that’s simply a cop-out by TPTB and quite frankly, just lame. If Des can go back to 1996 and get Penny’s phone number, but then that meeting has no consequence on future meetings between the two (like the expected phone call in 2004)- as well as with others- like daddy Widmore waiting for Des when he is released from prison, which motivates Des to compete in the race around the world, which leads to the meeting I originally mentioned in my post between Des and Penny (at the stadium, before Des begins running stares), that’s just illogical and totally lame, IMO.


I'm not sure that Star Trek is the best movie-reference to use as a comparison for the principles of time-travel, because we only saw things happen once.

You can't have watched the Back to the Future movies, however, without being able to acknowledge the concept of alternative time-streams.


In time-stream ONE they have Twin Pines Mall, Marty McFly has no car, and his father writes Biff's reports; in time-stream TWO they have Lone Pine Mall, Marty McFly has the 4x4 of his dreams, his father is a science-fiction writer, and Biff shines their cars.
In both of those time-streams they had Clayton Ravine, but in BTTF III when Marty & Doc Brown saved Clara Clayton it created yet another time-stream in which the ravine had a new name and Doc and Clara had kids.Each time Marty McFly went back in time it changed the future, and there was nothing illogical or lame about it.

It is the same principle working here on Dharma island - when Desmond went back into the past it changed the future from that point on, but we only saw some things (like Penny and Desmond at the stadium) BEFORE the future was changed.

I'm not sure that Star Trek is the best movie-reference to use as a comparison for the principles of time-travel, because we only saw things happen once.

You can't have watched the Back to the Future movies, however, without being able to acknowledge the concept of alternative time-streams.

In time-stream ONE they have Twin Pines Mall, Marty McFly has no car, and his father writes Biff's reports; in time-stream TWO they have Lone Pine Mall, Marty McFly has the 4x4 of his dreams, his father is a science-fiction writer, and Biff shines their cars.
In both of those time-streams they had Clayton Ravine, but in BTTF III when Marty & Doc Brown saved Clara Clayton it created yet another time-stream in which the ravine had a new name and Doc and Clara had kids.Each time Marty McFly went back in time it changed the future, and there was nothing illogical or lame about it.

It is the same principle working here on Dharma island - when Desmond went back into the past it changed the future from that point on, but we only saw some things (like Penny and Desmond at the stadium) BEFORE the future was changed.

Like I said, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree. Your Back To The Future references still don’t work for me, for two basic reasons:

I only saw the first one (about a million years ago) and don’t remember much about it- other than the Michael J. Fox character (Marty??) needing to get his dad and mom to hook up, otherwise he wouldn’t exist (i.e. the future would be changed).
By your own admission/example, Marty changed the future.This was also my only point of the Star Trek reference (not a fan of the show or movie)- just used it to illustrate the point that they were concerned about changing the future (just as the whole point was to bring the whales to the future to communicate with the aliens that they still exist- yikes, how lame does that sound?). From what you outlined, the Back To The Future movies did it right (like I said, I don’t remember any of them)- they were changing the future or were at least concerned about changing the future (which would be correct and logical).

TPTB for LOST have ruled this out as a possibility- changing the future. References of course-correction have been made and in this very episode, Faraday says you can’t change the future (not to mention, TPTB have apparently said on podcasts that the future, or FFs, will not be changed). This is where it is definitely illogical and lame IMO.

If you really could actually go back in time and change something, this would have ripple effects of change throughout your entire life. You can’t just change one thing (selectively) back in 1996 and then blast forward to 2004 without anything else changing. Many things would have changed along the way (so maybe Des doesn’t join the military, then doesn’t have the run-in with daddy Widmore when released from prison, then doesn’t become motivated to race around the world and then he wouldn’t land on the Island in the first place).

Just apply this to your own life. If you could go back in time and change some big mistake or some huge missed opportunity, think of how everything from that moment would be very different. I trade stocks for a living (NOT a day trader, just a trader). Knowing what I know now, if I could go back in time, I would go all-in on Apple (and take out a loan, as well), just before the release of the iPod. That would have easily made me a millionaire. Don’t you think my life would be very different (and that’s only going back 4 years)?

To each his own.

I vote we never talk about time travel again (unless they do it again on Lost).

It was fun for the first couple of posts, but now just thinking about the concept is annoying (not you, the topic).

Loved:



8. Juliet/Jack vs. Charlotte/Daniel. "Why don't you speak slowly so we can understand" Hehe. Loved it.

I agree! I was on the fence about Juliet before but that line made me a fan!

Best thing about this episode was that it got on with the plot without any flashbacks or flashforwards.

Those things are a pain in the neck, IMO. Especially the flashforwards; they are like in-show trailers for the sequel, before you know if the first film is going to be good enough to deserve a second helping!

Really enjoyed watching it, didn't think I would as it was Locke-less. I'm quite into Des now as well, previously I was ambivalent towards the character, but after watching was like *WoW*. Looking forward to seeing more of Daniel as well.

And,
Kate wasn't in it yippeeeeee!

Each time Marty McFly went back in time it changed the future, and there was nothing illogical or lame about it.

It is the same principle working here on Dharma island - when Desmond went back into the past it changed the future from that point on, but we only saw some things (like Penny and Desmond at the stadium) BEFORE the future was changed.

It was completely illogical. It doesn't make sense because if Marty grew up in the future he fixed, he wouldn't be the same Marty. What you have at the end of Back to the Future is a Marty from the timeline where his Dad is working for Biff living in a timeline that has Biff working for Marty's dad. If you think about it, it doesn't work at all. But, you are right, there is nothing lame about it. That movie is still great.And if you go into a movie called Back to the Future expecting time travel to make sense, then you deserve to come out feeling disappointed.

But with the Constant, things not making sense isn't a good thing.

It was completely illogical. It doesn't make sense because if Marty [McFly] grew up in the future he fixed, he wouldn't be the same Marty. What you have at the end of Back to the Future is a Marty from the timeline where his Dad is working for Biff living in a timeline that has Biff working for Marty's dad. If you think about it, it doesn't work at all. But, you are right, there is nothing lame about it. That movie is still great. And if you go into a movie called Back to the Future expecting time travel to make sense, then you deserve to come out feeling disappointed.

But with the Constant, things not making sense isn't a good thing.


Last night I was watching the Season 3 Bonus Features, and Lindelof said the following about the "Flashes Before Your Eyes" episode - talking about when Desmond first went into the past after turning the key:"One would argue the first time that series of events happened Desmond probably never approached Charlie; didn't even recognize him; he just walked out of Widmore's office and kind of kept on going ...um...so...there the paradox effect takes place and you wonder did Desmond change anything when he was back there."
Lindelof's comments support the idea that the second time Desmond experiences a particular moment it can and will be different from how it happened the first time.

If it is only your consciousness that is jumping back and forth, you will have experienced both time-streams and I think that places you are outside the paradox.

It is even worse in Back to the Future, because he traveled physically; there should have been two Marty's in the future, not just one.