I was actually surprised.

Thoughts?

Also great that Sayid and Sawyer team up to pull Jack off Locke. My how things change.

That was truly shocking.

I agree completely. I actually think it's quite significant that Jack would have absolutely, positively killed Locke. It's also quite interesting that Locke's gun wasn't loaded.

Game changing . . . . the return of Locke! I've been waiting.

That really blew me away. That was probably the biggest shocker of the whole episodes. I could... not ... believe he did that. Season Four certainly has a very different tone; much darker. Perhaps that's why the background was so cloudy in that one promotional still with the whole cast. Good stuff. I think the episode is still sinking in...

I'm actually not surprised. Locke keeps interfering with Jack's attempt to leave the island and Jack is sick and tired of it. Little does Jack know, staying on the island is the best thing for him. Thank goodness he didn't kill Locke.

yeah pretty shocking
but, he did say he would kill him, and jack usually sticks to what he says

It looked to me like Jack was a bit surprised himself that he pulled the trigger...but yeah, who thought he would really try?

I wasn't shocked. Jack called Locke crazy... but we've seen what Jack looks like in 3 years. He's quite on the way to crazy-town himself. He's been slowing losing it for a while now, IMO.

i was hoping Jack would pull the trigger. he ain't no *** anymore.. from Jack's perspective, killing Naomi (in the back no less) in cold blood was just one of a whole list of things Locke has done.

i say good for Jack

OH BUT YES HE DID!!!! TWICE!!!

I was so floored by Jack!! Twice he could have killed Locke!!! But - hey - he said he would if he got the chance!!

Jack the murderer, no longer the fixer, that makes me happy to see how messed up Jack was in TTLG's ff

I agree completely. I actually think it's quite significant that Jack would have absolutely, positively killed Locke. It's also quite interesting that Locke's gun wasn't loaded.



Do anyone think that's strange. Jack wasn't going to kill Ben,although Ben had did much worse than Locke,yet he was absolutely going to kill Locke. Locke spared Jack life,yet Jack wasn't willing to even consider sparing John's life. Jack has change since coming to the island. Up until now Jack was the only person besides Hurley,Rose,Bernard,and Desmond who haven't purposely tried to kill someone.

Even though I could see it coming..... it still shocked me. I know that we have to get to the insanity of Jack in the TTLG FF, but still.... it just still shocked me.

I wasn't really all that surprised. If you think about Jack's character and how it has changed since the last half of season three, you'll see that he rides on emotion more than ever. He has been emotional about Locke for a long time, and he even said that he was going to kill him earlier in the show.

I was actually surprised.

Thoughts?

Also great that Sayid and Sawyer team up to pull Jack off Locke. My how things change.really shocked here, he was gonna KILL him to ensure he gets off the island...wow , jack is losing it...

I don't think it's very shocking. Although I *did* gasp when he pulled that trigger (it IS Jack, afterall), let's remember what has happened merely in the past week or so on the island:

John blew up the sub, Jack's ride home (with no explanation given to Jack as to WHY)
John shot a gun at Jack and threatened to kill him if he tried to call the freighter (again with no explanation as to WHY Jack "wasn't supposed to do [it]")

If I were in Jack's place, I think I would have reacted the same way.
After three months on the island, what is seemingly the best chance at leaving is now suddenly upon you--would you let John Locke stand in your way?

Of course we all know the results in the future... but c'mon. We all know Jack.
If he's motivated to do something, he'll do whatever it takes.
Given the circumstances, I wasn't surprised he pulled the trigger.

I was really surprised.

And iamlost2, I think he doesn't kill Ben because Ben could have some useful information, or be a bargaining chip later on. Jack thinks Locke is nothing but a liability at this point.

Even though Jack said in no uncertain terms that he'd do it - I was shocked when he pulled the trigger.. Even though there was no bullet, he's turned into a murderer at heart.. Jack reached his tipping point..

I think Jack has officially lost it. :(

He certainly seems awful desperate to off someone. He was talking the talk about Ben and Tom last season during the finale.

He finally got it up to try with ol' Johnny Locke. But he failed, again.

Locke has always been in a thorn in Jack's side, and this has intensified of late. Jack is losing control, both of himself and his "people." Shooting a defenseless man on his back is not Jack-like. Combine tonight's Jack with TTLG's FF Jack, and we get a portrait of a man about to embark on a long path of deterioration. Some time in the future, I expect to see Jack to snap back to being Jack-like, perhaps even as a new-and-improved Jack.

Jack wasn't going to let Locke sabotage everyone's rescue yet again.

I find it interesting that even Sayid, who literally snarled at Locke with hatred just a minute ago, helped break up the beating Jack was giving Locke.

It also made me sad that Locke was tearing up right before Jack popped him in the face. But I agree that this moment of conscious murder is Jack's breaking point. The beginning of the end (of his sanity).

I admit that I was very surprised that Jack pulled the trigger, but I don't see any insanity on Jack's part or deterioration. It's not like Jack doesn't have a reason to want to shoot Locke. Locke is a dangerous and unstable man, and it goes all the way back to Boone's death and the "sacrifice the island demanded" to Locke wanting to be pulled into a hole by Smokey even though Jack was trying to save his life.

Locke has been a thorn in Jack's side for quite a while. Locke created unrest amongst the Losties when he found his hatch and everyone was afraid of the Others. Jack saw how Locke allowed Sayid to beat the crap out of a wounded Ben. Granted, Jack doesn't get brownie points because he assisted Sayid against Sawyer (although Sawyer deserved it, imo). My point is that Jack has seen Locke's violent and dangerous side. Jack doesn't even know about what Locke did to Boone (drugging him and tying him up in the jungle) or knocking out Sayid to prevent the call.

If you throw in the last few days of events from blowing up the command station (so to speak), blowing up the sub, and then shooting at Jack and knifing Naomi, it's no wonder that Jack would pull the trigger. It's obvious Locke IS dangerous, and I'm not even mentioning what he did to Sawyer or Mikhail (shoving him into the sonic fence).

I am surprised that Jack pulled the trigger and at the same time, I'm not surprised at all.

When Locke got that gun from the Dharma death pit - did it have bullets in it? Wasn't he going to kill himself with it?

Jack has had reason to be pissed off at Locke. Locke's certainly no angel. However, to try to murder a defenseless man is something I never imagined to see Jack doing. He's definitely changing and reaching a breaking point with his desire to get everyone off the island.

When Locke got that gun from the Dharma death pit - did it have bullets in it? Wasn't he going to kill himself with it?

It definitely had at least one shot.

If you remember, Locke took a shot at Jack in the 3rd season finale when Jack went for the sat phone.

Isn't it reasonable to assume that Locke might have purposefully unloaded the gun, knowing very well what would happen when he confronted Jack and knowing it was a very real possibility that Jack would try to kill him?

I think Locke took the ammo out before he went with them to meet up with Jack. He did so because he knew Jack would want to hurt him, and it would also be a way for him to "show" the others what their "leader" has become. It was a calculated plan of his that Jack would see the gun, go for it, and pull the trigger. He "tried" to get it away from Jack, but let him have it, knowing it was empty, in order to cast fear and doubt into the minds of the rest of the Losties about who they can trust.

John blew up the sub, Jack's ride home (with no explanation given to Jack as to WHY).

There's STILL no explanation why. Not from Ben, not from Locke. Charlie writing on his hand in his final moments would not have been enough for me either.

Locke and I actually said the same exact line before Jack pulled the trigger. When I first saw the sneak peek, I believed that Jack really, truly wanted to kill Locke if he messed with the rescue again. I didn't think he'd do it point blank, so that's where both Locke and I were wrong.

He's brought back by Hurley's speech about Charlie and I loved that scene where he's asking himself how did it get to this? And he's still got a long way to go before this crack turns into a massive gash leading him to that bridge in LA.

I love it. I've never loved Locke more than I love him at his craziest. Same goes for Jack.


I am surprised that Jack pulled the trigger and at the same time, I'm not surprised at all.

Yes, same here. It's why this show rocks so hard.

Locke had just killed Naomi right in front of everyone. While he might have felt this was a necessary act of self-defense to protect the group, Jack would have seen things completely different. From Jack's perspective, this was the murder of an ally in cold blood. It's one thing to interfere with getting off the island, it's a whole new ballgame when you present a threat to people in the group. Locke did what he felt was necessary, and so did Jack (for practically the same reasons). I wouldn't say either was right, but it fits perfectly with their character.

I was definitley surprised. I know that Jack said that he would kill Locke if he came back, but still... Jack's is still one of the only people that hasn't murdered someone and not only was he about to murder Locke, he almost put a bullet in his head in front of an entire audience. I believe this is "the beginning of the end" for Jack. But I am so glad that the gun was not loaded because that would mean no more Jack/Lock scenes, which imo, are some of the best scenes in the series. No matter how crazy the two of them get! :biggrin:

I think this was talked about more amongst my viewing group than anything else in the episode last night.

That Jack tried to murder a defenseless Locke at point blank range makes him even worse than Sawyer now, in my mind. I was angry that Sawyer killed Tom in TTLG, as Tom was, again, defenseless. But at least Sawyer had more cause. Tom had actively tried to kill him on more than one occasion (the raft, the raid on the beach camp). Locke, on the other hand, clearly was unable to bring himself to harm Jack when pressed.

I believe this is "the beginning of the end" for Jack.

Good tie in with the title of the episode. That's a really good point. Whatever the Oceanic 6 have to do to leave the island.... I am starting to think that it is masterminded by Jack and that he convinces the other 5 that whatever they have to do to get off is worth it. And we see where he ends up at the end of TTLG, you know? This was a turning point for him. He is DONE with letting other people ruin his chances. He is taking everything into his own hands.

Which, frankly, is pretty freakin' scary.

But I love it! ;)

Jack has had reason to be pissed off at Locke. Locke's certainly no angel. However, to try to murder a defenseless man is something I never imagined to see Jack doing. He's definitely changing and reaching a breaking point with his desire to get everyone off the island.

Jack had many, many lives which depended on him. Locke, on the other hand, will stop at nothing to keep them from rescue, and has proven that. Jack did what he had to do to save all those lives. I'm sure he didn't pull that trigger out of sheer anger. We already know he's not like that.

When Locke got that gun from the Dharma death pit - did it have bullets in it? Wasn't he going to kill himself with it?

It had bullets in it in TTLG, because he fired a 'warning shot' near Jack when he was threatening to kill Jack.

i was shocked - this doesn't bode well for jack

after all locke didnt kill jack for making the call even though he had killed naomi.

I was shocked at first, but then i remembered:

- Locke blew up the sub

- Jack said "if he comes back, i'll kill him". This is after John threw knife at Naomi.

- Jack now thinks "Locke has gone crazy", as he said to Kate. He sees Locke as a threat to the whole group. He thinks it's better to eliminate him, before he can destroy their means of escaping again.

Would it be wrong of me to say that I'm proud of Jack for pulling the trigger? Locke has destroyed every chance for him and his friends to get of the island. Plus, he was kinda repsonsible for Boone's death, Jack never forgave him for that. Locke's face when he pulled that trigger was priceless. Too bad, there weren't any bullets in the gun. Imagine the shock value Locke's death would have had.

the scene was great! i always enjoy jack vs locke scenes and IMO this one was one of the best jack/locke scenes ever! the look on locke's face when jack pulled the trigger and jacks reaction when he realized what he had done was perfect!

but i have to admit that this scene was one of the most shocking scenes for a jackfan like me... coz i never thought jack would do such a thing!
i guess the island drives everyone a little crazy but who can blame the losties for acting like that!

i just relieved to see that this jack/locke confrontation scene happened before jack learned about charlie's dead and the bad news about the freighties... coz when jack pulled the trigger; all he knew was locke tried to kill him and he killed naomi (they all thought she was dead) only hours ago!
from jack's pov locke is the man who always sabotages the rescue chances of the losties... and lately jack was convinced that locke totally lost it and he could even kill ppl to accomplish his goal!
so i can see where jack was coming and why he pulled the trigger but still i believe it was OOC for him!

For me, it would have been more shocking had he not been verbalizing it and simply just shot Locke. That would have been more cold blooded.

My question is this: had Locke been able to get the gun out first before Jack wrestled it away from him, (knowing the gun was not loaded), would he have simply pointed the gun at Jack to scare him, hoping to succeed, or would Jack have forced his hand into pulling the trigger? I'll leave it at that.

I'm reserving judgement on Jack re: his degradation. I need to see more.

This has been great debate and everyone has made very good arguments. It's great to have Lost back, indeed.

Locke said something like "you're not gonna shoot me for the same reason I didn't shoot you" click "there's no bullets" And that is why Locke didn't shoot Jack last year which im sure he would have if it was loaded.

Locke said something like "you're not gonna shoot me for the same reason I didn't shoot you" click "there's no bullets" And that is why Locke didn't shoot Jack last year which im sure he would have if it was loaded.

I'm not sure that Jack was really going to shoot Locke until Locke said..."You're not gonna shoot me.." then there was this look in Jack's face. The "you can't tell me what I can't do" and then he pulled the trigger.

By the look of surprise on Locke's face I don't think he thought Jack would pull the trigger either.

I am glad Jack had the courage to follow through on his convictions and pull the trigger. Too bad the gun was empty. Locke is more dangerous to everyone than Ben and the others are at this point.

I couldn't believe he did that. I think Jack is going to lose some credibility for this in the near future. People are going to see that he was willing to murder one of his own people in cold blood just for the sole purpose of getting off the island, and if you really think about it, that makes him no different than Michael, who betrayed everyone. I can't believe Jack would have done this after everything they went through with Michael. I know Michael was responsible for turning them over to The Others, but he did murder, doing what he had to do to get his son and GET OFF THE ISLAND. Jack is letting his want to get off the island cloud his judgement and is making bad decisions. I think this is the beginning of the end of Jack. I like Jack though and know he is a good leader, so whatever happens with him and The Losties, I hope he can redeem himself concerning this one act, because I do think it will have lasting repercussions for everyone.
100%
SWEET I'm at 35 posts with this one and am officially in Baggage....woohoo...lol

I am glad Jack had the courage to follow through on his convictions and pull the trigger. Too bad the gun was empty. Locke is more dangerous to everyone than Ben and the others are at this point.

I think it was more personal than that for Jack. He shouted, "You're through keep me on this island." Not us, "me".

I was shocked because it seemed so much after the fact. Rescue was already on its way. Jack himself joked with Kate about how they could be on a boat within hours. Locke was powerless to do any more damage at that point, so it was IMO just about settling a personal score between him and Locke.

Within a short span of time Jack threatens to kill 3 people.


When he talks to Tom on the walkie, he says that when he's done arranging the rescue he's coming to kill him. (Sawyer took care of that for him)

Jack attempts to murder John.

Jack tells Kate that he's bringing Ben with them so he can see them rescued, then he will kill him. (Locke takes Ben instead.)

I think Jack has a change of heart on being a killer when he doesn't succeed in killing Locke.

"How did we get here?"


Jack Lost it then Found it again?

gob smaked!

could not believe it.

but why was the gun not loaded??

gob smaked!

could not believe it.

but why was the gun not loaded??

Because Locke is no idiot, and he thought it best to play it safe, I'm sure he knew Jack was pissed, so unload the gun just in case.

but why was the gun not loaded??

Because Locke planned it that way. You saw how quickly he jumped on the opportunity to use Charlie's death to manipulate Hurley, would it really surprise anyone to find out that he planned the thing with Jack to turn the camp against him?

Because Locke planned it that way. You saw how quickly he jumped on the opportunity to use Charlie's death to manipulate Hurley, would it really surprise anyone to find out that he planned the thing with Jack to turn the camp against him?

i never thought about it that way but thats a great theory!
and i guess its possbile!
the gun was loaded when he first tried to stop jack to make the call to the freighter and he knew that what he did (killing naomi and trying to kill jack) would make jack mad enough to lose his control the next time they confront eachother!
when locke tried to reach his gun (while knowing its not loaded) he knew that this attempt would make jack think that locke was planning to hold a gun to him again! and he did what anyone would do: he took the gun :shifty:

That was my favorite scene in the epi. I loved it!!! Locke had been a big pain in the butt and just "killed" Naomi in cold blood without an explanation to anyone. Jack was protecting his flock and making sure Locke couldn't screw things up again. I don't think it was really out of character. Things are not so black and white anymore. Also, remember that we know more than they do. Locke has sabotaged means of escape several times, including blowing up a comm station and supposedly blowing up the sub (that remains to be seen). I would have kicked his arse long ago.

That was my favorite scene in the epi. I loved it!!! Locke had been a big pain in the butt and just "killed" Naomi in cold blood without an explanation to anyone. Jack was protecting his flock and making sure Locke couldn't screw things up again. I don't think it was really out of character. Things are not so black and white anymore. Also, remember that we know more than they do. Locke has sabotaged means of escape several times, including blowing up a comm station and supposedly blowing up the sub (that remains to be seen). I would have kicked his arse long ago.

Its like you took the words right out of my mouth, brotha.

Jack is just sick and tired of Locke destroying any means of getting them of the island without a proper explanation.

LOCKE: All I have ever done has been in the best interest of all of us.
JACK: Are you insane?!

Love it!

Yeah, a short conversation and a little explanation between characters and really, the whole show unravels. The show is built on the characters NOT communicating properly. Had Jack known Charlie was dead, I'm quite sure he would have had a different attitude about everything he did.

I was not surprised he tried to kill John. I would have too. Only so much understanding, then a bald guy kills a women, and shoots at you and threatens to kill you, people tend to take that stuff personally when all they are trying to do is rescue 40 some people.

Jack was going to kill Ben, hell he was going to kill Friendly.

He just wanted every one rescued first, and off the island.

After watching this ep and reading pages to now I actually totally forgot Jack is a doctor!! H has changed so much from the "We're going to do this together" to "Im going to kill Locke!"


I mean Jack beat Ben badly, attempted to kill Locke hes going crazy! When Locke threw the knife in Naomi's back he didnt even try to help her! A knife in the back doesnt mean certain death and jack should know this because eh hello hes a SPINAL SURGEON! he didnt even make a attempt to look over her or check if she was still breathing. Not the hero he once was.


Also anyway else notice that Jack and Sawyer have swapped places? Like how cute was Sawyer when he was talking to hurley seeing if he needed the others to slow down or if he wanted to talk about charlie. and when hurly got lost and catches up with the others and tells them I got lost did yous Sawyers face?! he was like oh shit....

and jack is now totally sawyer being all rough and mad

He checked for a pulse (here's the visual aid for those that don't remember) (http://gallery.lost-media.com/albums/ep-caps/season3/3x22-2/normal_3x22-glass1995.jpg)right after Locke threw the knife into her back and asked "what did you do" so it was to be assumed at that point that she was dead. No pulse and no breathing equals dead. Who knew she'd be resurrected by the island

Being for the most part spoiler free it was shocking seeing it but thinking abouut it afterwards it was not shocking at all. We have to remember this is island time and not our time and in the last 3 months Jack has woitnessed Locke let Boone die 'because he was a sacrifice the island demanded" sabatoge rescue from an island that has killed so many of the survivors and terrorized them and Locke has done this more then once but most recently blowing up the sub, and murdered a women who came to rescue them in cold blood in front of everyone.


Now put yourself in Jack's shoes (and I would like o think Jack represents most of civilization, the everyday man or women who would want to return home after being stranded on a strange and mysterious island for 3 months that has been nothing but absolute terror), would you trust Locke and be buddy buddy with him after all he has done?


I wouldn't.



Jack just witnessed a man EXECUTE a women he doesn't even know who came here to their knowlege to rescue the survifvors. Would you let someone live who is a known murderer who will kill anyone who tries to get the survivors rescued?

I wouldn't. Kill one person or let everyone else possibly die and/or not be rescued because of that one person? I choose kill that one person. JMHO