Jack, of course. I know where his loyalty lies, what are his priorities.
I wouldnt go anywhere with Locke.

I think, putting myself in the position of one of them.. I would choose Locke's side. Unless of course, I happened to be good friends with someone who went with Jack and they convinced me otherwise. :biggrin:

I picked Locke, because what have I got to lose? There's electricity and hot water at the barracks, and if the freighter folk are on the up and up, I'm still getting a ride home.

Wouldn't that mean you essentially go with Jack? Locke has no plans to leave the island, and his plan wasn't to go to the Barracks, see if the Freighties were legit, then leave with them if they were. He wants to go to the Barracks and then figure out what to do. The only way the helicopter would go to the Barracks was if Jack sent them there, so essentially you go with Jack. Locke doesn't want to have anything to do with the Freighties (that's why he killed Naomi), so even if the helicopter went to the Barracks to pick up the left over Losties, Locke would try to kill whoever was in the helicopter, just like he killed Naomi without asking any questions.

IMO, Jack = rescue, Locke = stay on the island. The question is, do the Losties see it that way?

How people would trust Jack after he tried to murder Locke is beyond me. What if it wasn't loaded. What if he blew Locke's brains out all over the place? Would you still trust him? That didn't happen of course, but that was his intent.

And I still can't believe all the flack Locke is still getting for Boone's death. The sacrifice the island demanded? Yes. If Boone hadn't died, then Locke wouldn't have been banging on the Hatch door, Desmond would have killed himself, and everything would be gone.

I wouldn't go with either of them. They both think they're right, and won't listen to others.

Give me the Island Congress - Hurley (Speaker of the House), Sayid (Majority Leader), and Sawyer (Minority Leader). And Jin, could be the whip, if only people could understand him better. Gotta find a job for Desmond too.

If Boone hadn't died, then Locke wouldn't have been banging on the Hatch door, Desmond would have killed himself, and everything would be gone.

Ah, but Desmond had gotten the key, he was going to kill himself but he had that key ready, so he was planning to turn the failsafe anyway. DESTINY!

If Desmond had left the timer run out back then, the hatch would have imploded and the sky would have turned purple in S1, not at the end of S2. The Universe, however, course corrected.

And Welcome to the discussion, Pibbs! Where have you been?

Thanks dude....I wasn't sure and I remember reading something on the FAQ's section that if you're unsure about whether or not to use quotes then use them and I saw some others using them for stuff that had already happened but maybe some people hadn't seen yet, so I just did. But I thought it didn't make sense because why would those people be looking through here if they hadn't seen it...they would be asking to get spoiled....anyway thanks dude that was helpful!!!

We can't say for certain that Locke was right either, as evidenced by Hurley's claims that he shouldn't have gone with Locke and should have stayed with Jack to wait for rescue.
Granted we haven't seen an on-Island flash-forward to know what it's like for those who didn't leave. But clearly, being "rescued" by the freighter was not the solution to happiness for Jack or Hurley, and I believe the flash-forwards will continue to show that the rest of the Oceanic 6 are miserable with their current lives as the Island calls them back.

And those highlighted words are the operative term of the whole issue. YEARS LATERS. Who is supposed to know in the island present, when this decision takes place what will happen YEARS LATER? Desmond is apparently not getting any flashes about it, or he'd have told Hurley and gone with him.

Not a single one of the survivors know what will happen YEARS LATER. How are they supposed to choose "right" without the benefit of knowing what will happen?

Well, the original poll question asked what we would do. It didn't say we were supposed to pretend not to know what we know as viewers. But let's indulge that rule for a moment.

If I'm a redshirt with no knowledge of these people's past or future, I still know that Charlie died giving a message to Desmond that the people on the boat were lying about who they were. I just saw Hurley and Sawyer, who largely represented the authority figures amongst the survivors while Jack was away, choose the path of caution when dealing with the new arrivals.

At this point, Jack is acting even crazier than Locke, which is a tall order. He just tried to kill Locke at point blank range and seems unwilling to even entertain any evidence to the contrary of his obsession with being rescued. He's no longer acting rationally. Locke is unquestionably the man with the more level-headed demeanor in this scene. That combined with Hurley's impassioned argument would make me choose to go with Locke.

I have no idea where you are going with this. How in the fact is Locke right where no one besides TPTB know what is really going to happen in the story. Clearly Jack got OFF the island, where have no idea as of yet what happens to John Locke.
A lot of people are making statements as a viewer and not as a person on the island. Sure we know the backstory and even what might happen in the future. I believe that completely deters from the fact that if you were ON THE ISLAND, whom would you choose? Too many people are answering this question as a viewer and I believe that is unfair. We need to throw the FF's out the door because that does not give us a truthful answer.
Again, the original question posed didn't say we had to pretend we were redshirts without all knowledge of the viewers. That's a constraint you are choosing to apply. However, it's not an unfair one, if that's how you choose to interpret the original poll question. Even given that, there are plenty of reasons to choose Locke over Jack.

I personally have no idea why anyone wouldn't want to go with Jack. If you were on the island, he's the man that has saved countless more people that anyone. He had a plan to "blow them all the hell" when the Others were coming. Whereas Locke was no where to be found. He was responsible with Boone's death and Naomi's. People are talking about Jack being able to shoot Locke in cold blood; well Locke threw Mickail in the sonic fence pretty much in cold blood also. He blew us the sub, the station, and kept the hatch a secret.

All of these arguments can be turned around if desired. Locke saved everyone by teaching them to hunt for boar. His decision to keep the hatch a secret is no different from a million times other survivors chose to keep secrets, such as when Jack decided not to tell the camp about Rousseau's transmission or the case of guns. "The pigs are walking!" And saying Locke was responsible for Boone's death is like saying Desmond was responsible for Charlie's.


All in all, Locke is clearly out for himself and no one else. What makes you think he wouldn't let someone die again in his group because the island demanded a sacrifice?

He says just the opposite. "Everything I've done has been in the best interests of all of us." So it boils down to who you believe. Who has been acting unselfishly, and who has been acting with the best interests of all of the survivors in mind? Maybe both Jack and Locke, or maybe neither of them. But for everything one of them has done, the other has done something just as questionable.

The only argument I think you can make for Jack putting someone in harms way is when he sent Charlie down to The Looking Glass; but clearly he puts himself in harms way before anyone else if he has a choice.

How about when Jack agreed to let Sayid, Jin and Bernard stay behind and risk their lives to fight the Others on the beach camp? Not only that, but he made a willful decision to sacrifice their lives for the sake of everyone else when Ben held their lives hostage over the radio. Thank God Ben was only bluffing. But Jack would have let those three men die to satisfy his obsession with getting revenge on the Others. And rather than save them, he proceeded to prove he was acting based on anger by beating Ben within inches of his life. Jack is the one who is constantly threatening to kill people and doling out violence based on his emotions.

Perhaps BOTH men have God complexes. Even conceding that, both choices cancel each other out and you have to wonder if either of them would be a really appealing choice. Perhaps those in this thread who have answered "neither" are the smartest ones among us!

Being in Team Green will be like playing Ten Little Indians :biggrin: I'm looking forward to it.

Especially fun with the Sonic Fence - do you think Ben will remember to change the security code before Juliet and Team Blue come get Claire and the baby? (I'm guessing :angel:)

Ah, but Desmond had gotten the key, he was going to kill himself but he had that key ready, so he was planning to turn the failsafe anyway. DESTINY!

If Desmond had left the timer run out back then, the hatch would have imploded and the sky would have turned purple in S1, not at the end of S2. The Universe, however, course corrected.

And Welcome to the discussion, Pibbs! Where have you been?

Hey, thanks for the welcome. I've been keeping away from the spoilers section recently and I only got to see the premier on Monday.

So, Desmond had the key. I sort of remember that, but I thought he was just kinda playing with it. From what I understood of his FB, he was going to kill himself with the gun, the timer would have counted down, and everything would have been destroyed because there was no one there to turn the fail safe key. So, the sky wouldn't have turned purple. Everything would have been destroyed.
Destiny is absolutely right. Locke was supposed to be there banging on the Hatch so that he could save Desmond's life.

You know, after watching LTDA again recently, I really wonder why Locke gets the rap for blowing up the Hatch. As we saw in Desmond's FB, he knew that crap started flying around the Hatch when the timer counted down to zero. He knew that it wasn't just an experiment. Yet, he said absolutely nothing about this when Locke tried to convince him that it was just an experiment. Yeah, Locke broke the computer, but I think it was Desmond who destroyed the Hatch with his failure to tell Locke that something happened before.

i'm with locke...there is something about him that makes me trust him. it might be the scar..

I pick Sawyer. Wherever he goes, I'm going too, even in Jacob's cabin :eek:

Perhaps BOTH men have God complexes. Even conceding that, both choices cancel each other out and you have to wonder if either of them would be a really appealing choice. Perhaps those in this thread who have answered "neither" are the smartest ones among us!

To tell the truth, I don't think anyone followed Locke. They followed Hurley. OTOH, much is made of the fact that Sayid, Juliet, Desmond, Kate, and (I think) Jin stayed with Jack...as though they're actually counting on Jack or following his lead in any way. In fact, all those individuals are strong, brave and highly capable... and they're all armed to the teeth. So I think they're staying with the intent of checking out these new arrivals, perhaps hoping that if they can't get a ride home by cooperating, they might be able to do it by force of arms.

Jack and Locke may be the nominal leaders of Team Blue and Team Green, but I don't think the people who went with either one necessarily count on "following orders" that they don't agree with. We'll see how it all plays out.

To tell the truth, I don't think anyone followed Locke. They followed Hurley. OTOH, much is made of the fact that Sayid, Juliet, Desmond, Kate, and (I think) Jin stayed with Jack...as though they're actually counting on Jack or following his lead in any way. In fact, all those individual are strong, brave and highly capable... and they're all armed to the teeth. So I think they're staying with the intent of checking out these new arrivals, perhaps hoping that if they can't get a ride home by cooperating, they might be able to do it by force of arms.

Jack and Locke may be the nominal leaders of Team Blue and Team Green, but I don't think the people who went with either one necessarily count on "following orders" that they don't agree with. We'll see how it all plays out.

I don't think anyone is "following" either. They've made a conscious choice on whether they want to run and hide from possible rescue or stay and face possible rescue and whatever consequences that might bring each decision having little or nothing to do with how any of them feel about Jack or Locke but instead their own personal desires and fears.

I'd be on the side of possible rescue, not because of Jack, (although being with Jack, Sayid and Jin would make me feel safe) but because I'd want off that island more than anything.

To tell the truth, I don't think anyone followed Locke. They followed Hurley. OTOH, much is made of the fact that Sayid, Juliet, Desmond, Kate, and (I think) Jin stayed with Jack...as though they're actually counting on Jack or following his lead in any way. In fact, all those individuals are strong, brave and highly capable... and they're all armed to the teeth. So I think they're staying with the intent of checking out these new arrivals, perhaps hoping that if they can't get a ride home by cooperating, they might be able to do it by force of arms.

Jack and Locke may be the nominal leaders of Team Blue and Team Green, but I don't think the people who went with either one necessarily count on "following orders" that they don't agree with. We'll see how it all plays out.
Dez: I believe that there are already spoilers out there that suggest that Sun and Jin do not choose either side. This would fit nicely with Jin's original Island behaviour, watching out for just the two of them, wanting to keep Sun away from everyone and refusing to join the group. Jin's sole interest at this moment is getting Sun off that Island.

I don't think anyone is "following" either. They've made a conscious choice on whether they want to run and hide from possible rescue or stay and face possible rescue and whatever consequences that might bring each decision having little or nothing to do with how any of them feel about Jack or Locke but instead their own personal desires and fears.

I'd be on the side of possible rescue, not because of Jack, (although being with Jack, Sayid and Jin would make me feel safe) but because I'd want off that island more than anything.

So would I, no doubt about it. But the whole not-Penny's-boat aspect of things would not make me just a little bit cautious, it would make me HUGELY suspicious. Nobody fabricates a fake story to cover-up a benign purpose... and why THAT cover story? Why not say they're a scientific expedition or something equally vague? Very, very suspect. And the Losties have seen enough on that island to know - with the hatches and smokie and purple skies and Dharma food drops, to name just a few things - that there is nothing normal about this island and that people with a LOT of money to spend have been there before for some very strange purposes.

It's just not a normal island, so I wouldn't be making any decisions based on my otherwise normal assumption that a passing boat would be happy to rescue some poor crash survivors. There's a game afoot, with a lot of money behind it and an unknown purpose, so the Losties need to be careful they aren't swept off the board before they even know who the players are. I don't fault the team that went with Locke for wanting to figure it out from a safe distance. (Not Locke's purpose, I know, but I do believe it's Hurley's and Claire's and so on.)

I doubt Jack or the group that stayed with him are hell bent on running out waving their arms in the air and screaming, "Here we are!" either, but instead will do their best to find out what the intent of the freighties is and I don't fault any of them for choosing whatever path they chose, I just think it's too bad they had to split like that instead of sending the weaker and more vulnerable some place safe and the stronger staying behind to determine if the freighties really were there to kill them all, but it wouldn't be LOST if they ever behaved logically or god forbid communicated. ;)

I doubt Jack or the group that stayed with him are hell bent on running out waving their arms in the air and screaming, "Here we are!" either, but instead will do their best to find out what the intent of the freighties is and I don't fault any of them for choosing whatever path they chose, I just think it's too bad they had to split like that instead of sending the weaker and more vulnerable some place safe and the stronger staying behind to determine if the freighties really were there to kill them all, but it wouldn't be LOST if they ever behaved logically or god forbid communicated. ;)

No it wouldn't. LOL

But we love our crazy Losties anyhow, and their little dog, too. :biggrin:

I'd go with Locke but since Desmond went with Jack ... it would be hard. But I think that Locke knows the island better than Jack and I do think that this time Ben is telling the truth.

So would I, no doubt about it. But the whole not-Penny's-boat aspect of things would not make me just a little bit cautious, it would make me HUGELY suspicious. Nobody fabricates a fake story to cover-up a benign purpose... and why THAT cover story? Why not say they're a scientific expedition or something equally vague? Very, very suspect. And the Losties have seen enough on that island to know - with the hatches and smokie and purple skies and Dharma food drops, to name just a few things - that there is nothing normal about this island and that people with a LOT of money to spend have been there before for some very strange purposes.

I wanted someone to bring up the "Not Penny's Boat" part of it, especially with who was at the beach. For those who weren't at the beach, I would assume that they'd chose Jack's side "because they don't know about "Not Penny's Boat.). If I was on the beach then, like Juliet, Hurley, etc., then I might believe Desmond.

Long story short? My decision would be different if I was on the beach vs if I wasn't on the beach at that particular time.

I wanted someone to bring up the "Not Penny's Boat" part of it, especially with who was at the beach. For those who weren't at the beach, I would assume that they'd chose Jack's side "because they don't know about "Not Penny's Boat.). If I was on the beach then, like Juliet, Hurley, etc., then I might believe Desmond.

Long story short? My decision would be different if I was on the beach vs if I wasn't on the beach at that particular time.


Indeed. Some at the beach would know what this means and those not at the beach at the time of Hurley's speech would find it confusing at best. Who the heck is Penny? Why does her information matter?

I read in this thread that the freighter folks could land a helicopter behind the bounds of the sonic fence thereby threatening Locke's team. Well it seems to me that they cannot land helicopters very well in the first place. So... oh yeah... this is still a TV show even if it seems like do or die us viewers...

Can't wait for more information.

If I were a Lostee I wouldn't know all the mysterious things Locke has seen and been able to do since he doesn't share the info. I would only see a guy who filters in and out of camp doing useful things sometimes and doing crazy things other times.

On the other hand Jack can be a little hard headed and dictator like, but he does try to help everyone to the best of his abilities. Then he brings Juliet back to camp. I only know that Juliet is part of the Others who took Walt among other things.

I would chose to follow Jack, mostly because he doesn't seem crazy and is self sacrificing. Plus Kate is smart and she is following him.

Oh yeah, there is the fact that Jack is a hot doctor. He might decide to do a physical on me. COOOL!!

I have a feeling that:

1) What team you're on doesn't matter in determining who gets off the island
2) Jack and Locke will end up working together once Jack manages to return

Team Locke
Locke
Sawyer
Hurley
Claire and Aaron
Danielle
Alex and Karl

Vincent

Team Jack
Jack
Kate
Sayid
Juliet
Rose and Bernard
Desmond


Ben is currently a hostage of Team Locke.

Sun and Jin apparently do not pick a side.

Assorted red shirts on both teams.

Voted for Locke's team.

I would definately go with Jack.

Locke has proven over and over again he would sacrifice anything or anyone (just ask a dead Boone) for the island.


Jack 110 percent of the time is out for the best intrest of the survivors and the survivors alone where Locles intrest are for the island and what it "demands". Being from a survivors perspective and not seeing any of the flashbacks or flashforwards I would go with Jack in a heart beat over Locke and even seeing those as a viewer I would still choose Jack.

I/T :cool:

I just wanted to mentioned that, as predicted by many of us before CD aired, the fact that Jack decided to meet the Freighties did not mean, in any way, shape, or form that he (or the rest of the people that stayed with him) was going to trust the new arrivals right off the bat.

And it didn't mean that he disregarded Charlie's warning at all... just saying :hide:

Im with Jack, I want to know who's out there.. and I want off this island now. I would take my chances.. why hide now?


"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Well, after Locke proclaimed Jack a democratic leader and himself a bit short of a dictator, I'm now, more than ever, convinced that Team Jack is the one to be in!

The Island is not a democracy no matter who's in charge because there are preconditions for that and Craphole meets none.

Having said that...



I generally prefer a democracy over a dictatorship.

Tonight must have been confusing :biggrin: