Does he know it's Hurley?

When the car is getting off the highway, the reporter
says something, like, "yeah, it's a 70's vintage model camaro"..
jack mutters, "dammit"

I also like the clean cut, sharp dressed Jack, preparing for his
day with a little news, some orange juice... then BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vodka..

Certainly the beginning of the end.

The gap and story line between this point and what we saw in
TTLG must be an amazing degradation of character and loss
of control that it could be a season in itself.

Does he know it's Hurley?

When the car is getting off the highway, the reporter
says something, like, "yeah, it's a 70's vintage model camaro"..
jack mutters, "dammit"

Yeah, I noticed that too. Jack seemed to know who it was driving and more importantly seemed to expect Hurley's behavior in some way.

I also like the clean cut, sharp dressed Jack, preparing for his
day with a little news, some orange juice... then BAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Vodka..

Yep. Jack may look polished and in control, but something is tearing him up inside, even if he's not yet conscious of it.

Certainly the beginning of the end.

The beginning of the end - of the story.:biggrin:

The gap and story line between this point and what we saw in
TTLG must be an amazing degradation of character and loss
of control that it could be a season in itself.

Absolutely. I'm also guessing that maybe Hurley is in equally bad shape by the time we see Jack in TTLG because Hurley was ALREADY a mess in tonight's episode. It's curious how Kate was having no problem in TTLG - at least not that we could see. You're right. There is so much story left to tell.

Whatever guilt the O6 are having problems with, it seemed to me at the time that Jack knew it was Hurley because of the car, and expected the behaviour because at least one other member of O6 had exhibited it previously.

Yeah, I noticed that too. Jack seemed to know who it was driving and more importantly seemed to expect Hurley's behavior in some way.



Yep. Jack may look polished and in control, but something is tearing him up inside, even if he's not yet conscious of it.



The beginning of the end - of the story.:biggrin:



Absolutely. I'm also guessing that maybe Hurley is in equally bad shape by the time we see Jack in TTLG because Hurley was ALREADY a mess in tonight's episode. It's curious how Kate was having no problem in TTLG - at least not that we could see. You're right. There is so much story left to tell.

Hard to say if Hurley will be the same at that point in TTLG...
I find it weird that Kate is completely content and feels no need to go back.
Probably cause she is an ex fugitive and her best intentions are to keep her mouth shut.

Yep. Jack may look polished and in control, but something is tearing him up inside, even if he's not yet conscious of it.

Nice catch. Forgot about the vodka!

Makes me re-think the ending with those two playing basketball.
Matthew Fox did a great job of playing a man who seemingly isn't (yet) bothered.

Love the subtle moments.

Jack was always predisposed to problems. Look back on his life, look at the way he wolfs down a double on flight 815. He's an alcoholic who is at his best when he's fixing something or someone else, because when he's not, he's introspective and he doesn't like what's in there.

He was walking the exact same path as his father until the plane crash, and now that he's returned, he's trying to maintain, but going to meet with Hurley, and being reminded of something he's been trying to bury forces his introspection, and by extension, his admission of guilt, from his history with his father and his ex-wife, to whatever it is they had to do to get the oceanic 6 off the island.

He walks among them but is not one of them...hmm.

Why didn't Hurley want to tell the detective about Ana? Obviously the O6 have conspired to not tell the truth about what happened on the island, and it is eating them up.

Now, I'm looking forward to the conversation, when Hurley tells Jack about him and his father restoring that car!

Hard to say if Hurley will be the same at that point in TTLG...
I find it weird that Kate is completely content and feels no need to go back.
Probably cause she is an ex fugitive and her best intentions are to keep her mouth shut.

I don't think Kate is content. I think she's just resigned herself to being back in the real world and is trying to deny they may need to go back. When Jack said "We weren't supposed to leave" and she said "Yes, we were", it was more like she was trying to convince herself they were supposed to leave. At that point, she's not as convinced as Jack is.

I don't think Kate is content. I think she's just resigned herself to being back in the real world and is trying to deny they may need to go back. When Jack said "We weren't supposed to leave" and she said "Yes, we were", it was more like she was trying to convince herself they were supposed to leave. At that point, she's not as convinced as Jack is.

Kate's reaction in the finale is pretty much exactly like Jack's reaction in the S4E1 ending.
Both are in denial about their guilt, and both visibly become upset and suddenly want to leave when the other starts voicing remorse for their decision to leave.

I also like the clean cut, sharp dressed Jack, preparing for his day with a little news, some orange juice...
Yeah, get it? Watching the aerial view on TV of the car chase, pouring OJ? Damon knows how to get me laughing.
100%
Why didn't Hurley want to tell the detective about Ana? Obviously the O6 have conspired to not tell the truth about what happened on the island, and it is eating them up.
Ever consider the conspiracy among them didn't start there?

I think maybe this season is gonna end with someone dead telling Kate what is going on at the island nd here sayen we have to go back! & I was thinking...maybe Hurley is the one that dies that Jack & Kate are talking about. Maybe he commits sucided from being crazy & not being able to go back or maybe he is killed by that weird guy that said he was with Dharma.

What about the weirdness of starting a "flash" sequence from one character's perspective and then switching to a different character? Has that ever happened before? It was like FutureJack had become a third-person narrator for FutureHugo's story.

But just remember for all we know Hugo was semi-OK, until he saw Charlie in the store. That shoved him over the edge of reality. And since we all know Hugos predisposition to hallucinations, well there you are...

Easy to see the cracks in Jacks facade though.

What about the weirdness of starting a "flash" sequence from one character's perspective and then switching to a different character? Has that ever happened before? It was like FutureJack had become a third-person narrator for FutureHugo's story.


That's a good point, however I think there is a new shift in the way the storytelling is being handled now.

What about the weirdness of starting a "flash" sequence from one character's perspective and then switching to a different character? Has that ever happened before? It was like FutureJack had become a third-person narrator for FutureHugo's story.Last season opener. ATOTC began with the on-island Juliet FB, then turned into a Jackback after the first commercial break.

What if the Jack we saw at the end of last season comes around after the Jack we saw lastnight?

In other words we are all assuming what we saw off island last season happend before what we saw last night. What if it happens after? Maybe this season we will watch Jack slowly fall apart until we get to him meeting Kate at the airport.

Yeah, get it? Watching the aerial view on TV of the car chase, pouring OJ? Damon knows how to get me laughing.

Oh, good one! :cool: I immediately thought of the OJ low-speed chase in the white Bronco that we all watched unfold, and I noted the brand of orange juice so I had "Simply Orange" in my brain instead of "OJ". Great pun, Damon.

Did you all recognize the car as Hurley's before Jack said "Dammit"?

What if the Jack we saw at the end of last season comes around after the Jack we saw lastnight?
I think thats the idea, no?!

In other words we are all assuming what we saw off island last season happend before what we saw last night.
Did anyone else assume that?! who?!


What if it happens after?
"IT" being Hurley's flash forward or Jack's?!

Maybe this season we will watch Jack slowly fall apart until we get to him meeting Kate at the airport.
That was part of the original idea behind this thread.

In the original post:
"The gap and story line between this point and what we saw in
TTLG must be an amazing degradation of character and loss
of control that it could be a season in itself."

Jack even said he was thinking of growing a beard last night at the end.
I think this was meant to put a small piece of the time line in order.

I don't mean to dissect, but your post seemed like you chose not to read anything
else people posted. Im confused. :34853_huh:

But just remember for all we know Hugo was semi-OK, until he saw Charlie in the store. That shoved him over the edge of reality. And since we all know Hugos predisposition to hallucinations, well there you are...

Easy to see the cracks in Jacks facade though.

Well, we've known since the Pilot that when stressed, Jack will drink if he can. And we've known for quite sometime that Hurley is prone to hallucinations when he is stressed. So I'd say neither of them are managing too well in this shared FF of theirs. Jack just 'seems' more together because we have seen him in the 'later future' looking so much worse.

And WM--yeah, they made such a big deal of the Camaro in Hurley's prior FB that it was a good bet it was Hurley tonight.

I forget who asked why Hurley lied to AnaLucia's partner. But I think he lied about knowing AL because the O6 have to deny publicly that there were ANY survivors beyond themselves.

I think thats the idea, no?!


Did anyone else assume that?! who?!



"IT" being Hurley's flash forward or Jack's?!


That was part of the original idea behind this thread.

In the original post:
"The gap and story line between this point and what we saw in
TTLG must be an amazing degradation of character and loss
of control that it could be a season in itself."

Jack even said he was thinking of growing a beard last night at the end.
I think this was meant to put a small piece of the time line in order.

I don't mean to dissect, but your post seemed like you chose not to read anything
else people posted. Im confused. :34853_huh:

Well that is what I get for posting pre-coffee.:redface: :biggrin:

Hard to say if Hurley will be the same at that point in TTLG...
I find it weird that Kate is completely content and feels no need to go back.
Probably cause she is an ex fugitive and her best intentions are to keep her mouth shut.

Kate is in the same position that Jack is in with Hurley in this episode.

Jack does not want to go back, but he changes signficantly and changes his mind after seeing HUrley on TV.

KAte sees Jack on TV at the bridge and it is not unreasonalbe to predict that KAte will start changing her mind as well and deterorate just like Jack did.

Kate is in the same position that Jack is in with Hurley in this episode.

Jack does not want to go back, but he changes signficantly and changes his mind after seeing HUrley on TV.

KAte sees Jack on TV at the bridge and it is not unreasonalbe to predict that KAte will start changing her mind as well and deterorate just like Jack did.

I completely agree... I think we are going to see a domino effect as all of the "Oceanic 6" realize that they HAVE TO GO BACK!

The gap and story line between this point and what we saw in
TTLG must be an amazing degradation of character and loss
of control that it could be a season in itself.
Yeah, Jack being mostly in control of himself in this episode certainly changes a lot of my thinking about TTLG. After that ep, I thought some of the reasons for him being a mess could be leaving Juliet and/or Claire behind. But, at this point he is still doing fine, so unless he learned in between the two FFs that Claire is his sister, I can't see those being the reasons. They should have messed him up from the start, if they were the problem.

I REALLY want to know how much time passes between the two FFs. I have never been this interested in Jack's off-island character before.