It's clear that the group has been split. Again it's Jack vs. Locke. However, before we knew Jack as the man of science and Locke as the man of faith. However, is that the case now?

Locke wants to stay on that island. Why? Because of what it has to offer. From what we can tell, what it is has to offer can be explained with science for the most part (the electromagnetic fields, smokie, etc.).

Charlie gave a message saying that wasn't Penny's boat. The fact that they said they were Penny's rescue boat adding with the fact that Ben did warn him that these people will kill them should make Jack worried. So in a way, Jack is rolling on faith hoping that these people will actually rescue them.

This doesn't mean much, but I thought it was an interesting observation.

it IS interesting how the roles have changed...

...Locke needed mystery to survive while Jack needed proof to survive, now Locke is making a life decision on proof while Jack is making a life decision on mystery.

It's clear that the group has been split. Again it's Jack vs. Locke. However, before we knew Jack as the man of science and Locke as the man of faith. However, is that the case now?

Locke wants to stay on that island. Why? Because of what it has to offer. From what we can tell, what it is has to offer can be explained with science for the most part (the electromagnetic fields, smokie, etc.).

Charlie gave a message saying that wasn't Penny's boat. The fact that they said they were Penny's rescue boat adding with the fact that Ben did warn him that these people will kill them should make Jack worried. So in a way, Jack is rolling on faith hoping that these people will actually rescue them.

This doesn't mean much, but I thought it was an interesting observation.

This doesn't need to be spoiler fonted.

Good thought, I didn't look at it that way while watching it.

This doesn't need to be spoiler fonted.

Oh, ok. Fixed.

The "man of science, man of faith" label was always intended to apply to Jack only. It's probably one of the most incorrectly used phraseologies in the series. If you'll recall, that phrase comes from the season 2 premiere title. And, though that episode does highlight the face-off of philosophies between Jack and Locke, the title is meant to refer to the dual nature within Jack himself. TPTB explained all of this in a podcast, in case you were wondering.

So, yeah, the dichotomy of faith and science has always been there for Jack. It does a take a lot of faith for him to ignore the warning signs about the people coming from the freighter, just like it takes faith for him to believe they are going to rescued. In a sense, what was once a clash between faith and logic is now becoming a clash between two different faiths.

Let's not forget that Jack has people and things to get back to.

Locke does not. Locke still wants to explore the mysteries of the Island, i.e. meeting Jacob, perhaps leading the Others.

Let's not forget that Jack has people and things to get back to.

He does? Ben made the point in TTLG, Jack's marriage is over, his father is dead. He didn't seem to be on good terms with his mother. He was on the verge of becoming a full-blown stalker.

He does? Ben made the point in TTLG, Jack's marriage is over, his father is dead. He didn't seem to be on good terms with his mother. He was on the verge of becoming a full-blown stalker.

I think the idea is that Jack had a practice to get back to and a best friend (forgot his name). Jack DID seem pretty content in the FF with Hurley at the basket ballcourt. Ben, as always, wanted to stop Jack from making the call. I've never believed ever that Jack had nothing to go back to. Frankly, who WANTS to go back to THAT ex-wife.

Btw, your previous post about "Man of Science/Man of Faith" was great. You're right that some may not realize that Damon was talking about Jack as both of those men and not Jack and Locke. Jack's faith was destroyed after the events with his wife, so it makes sense that Jack's faith, or even an attempt at faith, would take time to come back.

I also think the dichotomy is rich inside Locke. While he is indeed a man of faith (he says so himself), there is a lot of science which explains some of the events on the island.

But I've never heard of electromagnetism healing broken spines. There is still faith to be had, and I think Locke has kept it.

I also think the dichotomy is rich inside Locke. While he is indeed a man of faith (he says so himself), there is a lot of science which explains some of the events on the island.

True, and he also has his moments of spiritual doubt.

I think the idea is that Jack had a practice to get back to and a best friend (forgot his name). Jack DID seem pretty content in the FF with Hurley at the basket ballcourt.

I suppose he's not completely without reasons to return, and as I said in another thread recently, people are just going to instinctively want to return to the modern world of creature comforts to which we have become accustomed. But he has a lot less reason than, say, Sun, Jin and Claire, who will want to raise their children in a better environment.

The "man of science, man of faith" label was always intended to apply to Jack only. It's probably one of the most incorrectly used phraseologies in the series. If you'll recall, that phrase comes from the season 2 premiere title.[/ And, though that episode does highlight the face-off of philosophies between Jack and Locke, the title is meant to refer to the dual nature within Jack himself. TPTB explained all of this in a podcast, in case you were wondering.

Actually the term "man of science" and "man of faith" originated in the Lost Season 1 finale, Exodus Part 2.

JACK: Look, I need for you to -- I need for you to explain to me what the
hell's going on inside your head, John. I need to know why you believe that
that thing wasn't gonna --

LOCKE: (interrupts) I believe that I was being tested.

JACK: Tested.

LOCKE: Yeah. Tested. I think that's why you and I don't see eye to eye
sometimes, Jack. Because you're a man of sciece.

JACK: Yeah. And what does that make you?

LOCKE: Me? Well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an
accident? That we, a group of strangers, survived, many of us with just
superficial injuries? You think we crashed on this place by coincidence?
Especially this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason -- all
of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.

The season 2 premiere episode title did highlight the phrase "man of science, man of faith" and I do agree with you that the episode title had a double meaning to describe both Jack and Locke as well as the conflicting internal struggle going through Jack. I just wanted to point out that Locke DOES view himself as a man of faith and Jack as a man of science, and that's where the terms originated from. :)

I disagree with your premise. If you were stuck on an island and someone was close by, wouldn't you take every opportunity to try and get rescued? That would be the clear, logical choice of what to do. Jack is all about rationality and logic on the island. Locke, on the other hand, is going with his gut instinct and trusting his feelings that say going off the island isn't right. Jack is still a man of science, Locke one of faith.

There are interesting characters in both groups, but if I were a redshirt, I'd go with Jack, because he wants to get off the Island. Locke, on the other hand, has done everyhing he could to prevent anyone from leaving.

I don't think that the man of science, man of faith -dichotomy applies anymore. Jack can't think clearly and is often acting purely based on his emotions, like when he tried to kill Locke. But calling Locke a man of faith is an understatement, he's more like a fanatic, blowing up submarines and hatches, killing Naomi.

Actually, I'd go with Sayid, he seems to be the most rational person on the Island, and he's a great soldier, too.