Rose and Bernard are the ones with the most to lose by leaving the island, and I thought for sure they would've wanted to stay. Why was Rose so full of bitterness toward Locke? Did I miss something?

I totally agree! In the poll thtead I put that down as a shocker for me because I all but guranteed they were gonna go with Locke and stay on the island.

That is something I hope we learn more about.

Maybe didn't like the fact Locke seemingly killed an "innocent" woman. Other than that I don't know what he did to make her not want to go with him.

In the poll thtead I put that down as a shocker for me because I all but guranteed they were gonna go with Locke and stay on the island.

That is something I hope we learn more about.

Man, I wish I would have thought of this before I posted the poll.
Now that I think about it, Rose's bitterness towards Locke is pretty surprising.

Of course, she did witness him throw a knife in Naomi's back and threaten to kill Jack for trying to call rescue...

I'd imagine that Rose, like most of Team Jack (and possibly a good portion of Team Locke) believes Locke to be entirely unstable and insane.

That confused me too. They don't want to leave the island! And aside from not understanding why they are mad at Locke, don't Rose and Locke have their secret bond since they know about each other's miraculous island healing? Them staying with Jack made no sense.

Maybe Rose hasn't liked Locke's behavior on the island. Not only did he kill Naomi, but he threatened Jack, led to Boone's death, blew up two stations and a sub, and has not shown a lot of concern for his fellow losties, just for his own "journey."

Locke blew up a hatch, a submarine to get them off the island, threw a knife in the back of Naomi, threatened to kill Jack and fired one shot towards him..

I don't blame her for getting away from him.

Also, whats to stop her from at this point splitting from Jack as well.

Just cause she sided at that moment doesn't mean she wants off the island. I think it's very clear she wants to stay, just not with Locke, at least not now anyway.

Man, I wish I would have thought of this before I posted the poll.
Now that I think about it, Rose's bitterness towards Locke is pretty surprising.

Of course, she did witness him throw a knife in Naomi's back and threaten to kill Jack for trying to call rescue...

I'd imagine that Rose, like most of Team Jack (and possibly a good portion of Team Locke) believes Locke to be entirely unstable and insane.

Well what's shocking for me is that:

1- Rose and Locke knew each other's secret = they both knew they were miraculously healed and that the island is responsible for it

2- In "SOS" Rose and Bernard agreed they wouldn't leave the island

3- Locke did stab Naomi in the back but Jack was about to kill Locke as well

The Rose/Locke thing was the most shocking moment for me.

Yeah, it's in her voice. She doesn't trust him to not sacrifice them to the Island.

BUT. It did surprise me becaues unlike Jack (nobody bothers to ever tell him such details) Rose knows why Locke is so sure of his destiny and has every reason to believe him.

I guess in the end she also has Bernard to consider and she thinks Locke's always going to put the Island first.

Yeah, Rose strikes me as a pretty instinctive, intuitive person. Jack saved Rose's life after the crash, and she took a fast liking to him. I think her gut is telling her Jack is a good man who is just frustrated from trying his best to do right by everyone and having to make too many tough choices, while Locke may talk a good game right now, but he's still a self serving nutter who has his own island worshipping agenda. Since Rose is the only one who knows that Locke has been keeping this huge secret from everyone...that he was paralyzed until he got to the island....she has a different insight into his actions. Locke may want to prevent contact with the freighter, but he sure as hell isn't merely doing it out of concern for his fellow castaways.

Locke blew up a hatch, a submarine to get them off the island, threw a knife in the back of Naomi, threatened to kill Jack and fired one shot towards him..

I don't blame her for getting away from him.

Also, whats to stop her from at this point splitting from Jack as well.

Just cause she sided at that moment doesn't mean she wants off the island. I think it's very clear she wants to stay, just not with Locke, at least not now anyway.

I would agree with you except that Ben clearly said that Naomi wasn't who she said she was and that the freighter people would kill every living person on the island. (I believe Ben BTW.)

Then this is corroborated by the fact that Charlie sacrificed his life for JACK's plan but then found out that Naomi lied and wasn't who she said she was.

Like Hurley said if I was just a red shirt on the island I would follow Charlie.

There is also the chance that there is something between them we haven't witnessed yet.

Also the fact that Locke trusts Ben, who terrorized her husband and the tailies, might sway her not to trust the two.

Locke blew up a hatch, a submarine to get them off the island, threw a knife in the back of Naomi, threatened to kill Jack and fired one shot towards him..

I don't blame her for getting away from him.

Also, whats to stop her from at this point splitting from Jack as well.

Just cause she sided at that moment doesn't mean she wants off the island. I think it's very clear she wants to stay, just not with Locke, at least not now anyway.

I agree. I think Rose is one of the more rational people on the island. She thinks Locke's a nutcase, but it doesn't necessary mean that she wants to get off the island. She just told Bernard that she's not going with "that man".

Yeah, Rose strikes me as a pretty instinctive, intuitive person. Jack saved Rose's life after the crash, and she took a fast liking to him. I think her gut is telling her Jack is a good man who is just frustrated from trying his best to do right by everyone and having to make too many tough choices, while Locke may talk a good game right now, but he's still a self serving nutter who has his own island worshipping agenda. Since Rose is the only one who knows that Locke has been keeping this huge secret from everyone...that he was paralyzed until he got to the island....she has a different insight into his actions. Locke may want to prevent contact with the freighter, but he sure as hell isn't merely doing it out of concern for his fellow castaways.

Ditto. :)

That scene struck me as odd too. Rose and Locke were friendly if not friends, but then again seeing someone throw a knife into a persons neck could turn you off a bit.

I'm really curious about this myself. I hope in the next episode Bernard asks Rose to explain what's going on.

This didn't surprise me too much. As much as Rose felt sure that the Island healed her, her mistrust of Locke is not unexpected. She seems like the most down-to-earth of the main characters. Locke's behavior by contrast must seem bizarre and disturbing to her, not to mention many of the other survivors.

Remember that she was doubting Jack after they saw only two explosions (should have been three) on the beach. Still, it's puzzling why she would stay with him. Perhaps she was choosing the lesser of two evils.

I totally agree! In the poll thtead I put that down as a shocker for me because I all but guranteed they were gonna go with Locke and stay on the island.

That is something I hope we learn more about.


Im gonna assume it has something to do with throwing a knife through someones back, and threatening to shoot Jack who was just trying to get them rescued!

I've revised my initial bewilderment because Rose is one of the most down to Earth people on the Island.

The fact that she knows about Locke's miracle makes her even more warry of him because she knows his priority is the Island, knows what his motivation is (unlike most of the people there who can just echo Jack's "Are you INSANE?" )and she can clearly see what's obvious: Locke is taking a page out of Ben's book and using Hurley's emotional investement to manipulate him. I absolutely believe Locke when he says he's doing it for the greater good, btw, but I also understand why Rose is chilled to the bone by Locke, just as Jack was when Locke told him Boone was "the sacrifice the Island demanded."

I think mostly she is upset with the fact that Locke threw the knife in Naomi's back.
I don't know why she would go with Jack though. I remember a time when Rose said she didn't want to leave the island, that the island had cured her of cancer which she would have died from off of the island. That's the thing I don't get about her.

Rose and Bernard are the ones with the most to lose by leaving the island, and I thought for sure they would've wanted to stay. Why was Rose so full of bitterness toward Locke? Did I miss something?


Maybe it had something to do with Locke murdering someone in cold blood in front of everyone for no apparent reason.

Like was previously posted Rose is a totally down to earth person, and seeing Locke throw a knife at someones back like that, killing them in a totally cowardly way with no warning, was too much for her.

This is a woman who probably plays bridge and goes to church every week, she is bound to have some strickt morals.

She does however not want to make Bernard stay, she loves him and she knows how much he wants to get off the island, she does not want to stand in the way of that, even if it means her cancer will return, after all she accepted her death once she can again.


-Exodus

While Rose does not want off the island, I don't think that she would stand in the way of the rest of the losties leaving. Locke wants no one to go to the point that he murdered Naomi in cold blood. That in itself is enough to set her against Locke.

Maybe it had something to do with Locke murdering someone in cold blood in front of everyone for no apparent reason.
No apparent reason? It's known that he will do anything it takes to keep the island a secret. He doesn't want it found.

I just figure she weighed her options:

1. Leave island and possibly die.
2. Stay with what they believe to be a very crazy Locke and risk him going all 'drink the kool-aid' on them.


Or, maybe she's wanting to stay on the island, but not with Locke's camp.

Well, it was odd, and could be atributed to just some plain bad writing, (or bad character continuity), but she could also be choosing the one who seemed (aparently and for the moment) to be the less crazy one.

I imagine that Rose doesn't trust John because he's willing to do anything to keep the Losties on the island. Don't forget he also blew up the sub. Rose might want to stay but I can't imagine her preventing other losties from leaving the island.

I tihnk it boils down to the fact that Rose is a good Christian woman, and to her Locke is a cold-blooded murder (and a potential loony to boot). She's put her faith in Jack long enough, and figures she'll stay by his side for now even if she does decide, when the opportunity arises, to stay on the island.

But Jack tried to kill Locke in cold-blood, too. I can't understand why Rose didn't care for that.

But Jack tried to kill Locke in cold-blood, too. I can't understand why Rose didn't care for that.

Because Rose understands Jack's motivation for snapping (ie, Locke continously sabotaging their chances at a rescue her husband was ready to die for), whereas to her, Locke's motivations for killing Naomi are a tad less clear, aside from the self-serving variety.

Also I think it's important to note that the division of the survivors isn't really over who wants to leave vs. who wants to stay, or over who's the better leader, but rather over the meaning of Charlie's final message. Hurley and Claire aren't thinking straight, they're emotional, hence the reason they go with Locke. I think Charlie's final act has left doubt in everyone's mind about the freighter people, but that doesn't mean they're going to go running across the island with crazy-*** Locke who's already sacrificed one of them. I mean how is Locke going to resist the urge to blow up the barracks, huh? He's practically the Trashcan Man as it is.

Also I think it's important to note that the division of the survivors isn't really over who wants to leave vs. who wants to stay, or over who's the better leader, but rather over the meaning of Charlie's final message. Hurley and Claire aren't thinking straight, they're emotional, hence the reason they go with Locke. I think Charlie's final act has left doubt in everyone's mind about the freighter people, but that doesn't mean they're going to go running across the island with crazy-*** Locke who's already sacrificed one of them. I mean how is Locke going to resist the urge to blow up the barracks, huh? He's practically the Trashcan Man as it is.

I agree, which is probably why only Claire and Hurley go with Locke from the Losties camp (I didn't include the Others or the Losties who aren't featured characters even though I know other "Losties" went with Locke). Sawyer also went with Locke, but that confuses me more than anything considering what Locke did to him.

Hurley believes that he is honoring Charlie by not going with Jack to meet up with the freighter, and Claire feels the same grief and loyalty to Charlie. As we now know from the FF, Hurley was not happy about his decision to go with Locke and considers it a mistake for not having gone with Jack. We don't know what happened, but I think it's safe to say that Locke is too unpredictable. Rose sees that fact very clearly. Locke and Rose had one or two conversations, but I wouldn't say they bonded, and I'm sure Rose has heard quite a bit about Locke from the other Losties. Rose is an astute woman, and she knows that Locke is a dangerously unstable man.

Rose and Bernard are the ones with the most to lose by leaving the island, and I thought for sure they would've wanted to stay. Why was Rose so full of bitterness toward Locke? Did I miss something?


I think that Rose and Bernard want to stay on the Island but they do not want to go with Locke. They will probably follow Jack around a bit until they feel safe and the freighter people leave.

I think that even though Rose decided to go with Jack it doesn't mean that she is going to leave the island. I just don't think that Rose trust Locke, he has tried to keep the rest of the losties from leaving the island, then killed Naomi by stabbing her in the back. Rose on the other hand even though she doesn't want to leave the island she isn't the type to force the rest of the losties to stay just because she might want to stay on the island.

Sawyer also went with Locke, but that confuses me more than anything considering what Locke did to him.

Yeah I'm not too sure about this either. But I think maybe in some weird way Sawyer bonded with Locke over that experience. Afaik he's the only other survivor besides Rose who knows Locke was in a wheelchair. Also he's been through a lot more on the island than Rose so Locke's crazy behavior doesn't bother him as much. He's also a murderer himself so he can hardly hold that against Locke.

This one has been really the most shocking for me, Rose not wanting to go with Locke was rather odd, I thought the two had a good bond.

I wonder if Rose/Locke will have conflict over being healing, Rose is willing to leave, and Locke isn't. It seems that both being healed, doesn't mean both bond over it. Looks like both have different views on things.

I'm just curious about her views on things, I'm hoping to see more of Rose/Bernard this season, theres alot of good story with Rose's views on the Island, being healed that I hope will happen later on.

I think Rose does want to leave the island now, and this is either bad writing or something more we're going to find out about later.

Did anyone notice that early in this episode, when Rose is talking to Claire about what a hero Charlie is, and how Claire will need to treat him real good when "WE" get back. At that point Rose is already talking about being back home! Yes, she has already seen Locke stab Naomi at this point, but this is before the Jack/Locke showdown, this is before we know Naomi is dead, etc.

While I do think it is totally out of character for Rose to suddenly distrust Locke so much at the end of the episode, I think it is more interesting that early in the episode she seemed to already want to leave!

Rose and Bernard are the ones with the most to lose by leaving the island, and I thought for sure they would've wanted to stay. Why was Rose so full of bitterness toward Locke? Did I miss something?

Maybe there is some missing incident between the two of them that we haven't seen - that we will see in a flashback later?

Okay I've read through the posts and I still don't get it:

- Rose turns on Locke for stabbing Naomi in the back
- Naomi has proved to be a liar by not actually being sent by Penny
- Ben and Locke both know and have warned that the boat people will kill everyone
- Jack would've killed Locke if the gun had been loaded
- Rose and Locke know each other's secrets

This makes no sense at all. Rose said she didn't want to leave the island becasue of her cancer, so even if she doesn't go with Locke now and she remains then so don't Locke and Ben and the others presumable which means she won't have anyone backing her. She's just gonna stay on the island with Bernard and fend for herself?

The only thing that makes sense is that she wants off the crazy island and will take her chances with the cancer.

It makes perfect sense. These characters are becoming something we didn't expect them to be.

- Jack pulled the trigger on Locke, but the gun wasn't loaded
- Hurley is completely paranoid in the FF
- Jack becomes like pre-Island Charlie and pre-death Christian, in the FF; that is, he becomes a junkie and an alcoholic.
- Kate seems not to be a fugitive anymore in the FF.

Everyone is beginning to change!

With these things in mind, it doesn't sound so far-fetched for down-to-earth Rose to lose trust in an insane knife-throwing Locke, now, does it?

I believe that Rose stays with Jack because Jack has ALWAYS given his word to Rose. And Jack has always came through to Rose. After only 2 explosions went off Rose was scared but Jack gave her his word that Bernard was OK, even though he didn't know. Jack has saved her life, on the plane before the crash Jack calmed her down, when she was alone on the beach, Jack was the only one who came to her. If all those reasons aren't enough to trust a man, I don't know what is. Plus I think Jack is going to look after the well-being of all the people in his group a hell of a lot more than Locke would, whom in my opinion, would sacrifice everyone to get what he wants.

Maybe Rose decided that she wanted off this crazy island once her husband risked his life to help save the Losties. Ben gave the order to kill Bernard, Sayid and Sawyer and Ben sided with Locke. Their victory and Charlie's death is all for not if they don't try to get off the island.

Things on the island were relatively peaceful when she and Locke had their bonding moment. There hasn't been much time to sit on the beach and ponder the meaning of life in recent days. If her cancer is cured but she has to dodge bullets, the 'monster' and people falling from the sky plus constant bickering, it may be less stressful to go back to her regular life (if possible).

She already knows that Locke doesn't want to leave and why. That makes him dangerous to everyone who wants to be found. Plus, Bernard wants to go home but he won't go w/out his wife. Didn't he also help make the SOS sign? Better to side with someone that you think you can reason with down the road if things go bad than someone who is mercilessly sticking to his own agenda.

That being said, I think Jack and Locke have both cracked up.

Remember Rose had that little premenition type moment in the hatch...when they came to tell her she didn't have to do laundry anymore..that there was a washer in the hatch? She said something like "I don't want to go down in that place". Can't recall it exactly, but the impression I got was that she knew something impure would go on in there. Next thing you know, she's down there stopping Hurley from blowing up the pantry. Put that with Rose's healing attachment to the island, I would say that she knows for sure that sooner, rather than later, Locke is going to sacrifice everyone for the island's sake. She knows he's lying when he said 'Everything I ever did, I did for all of us." Doesn't that sound like the same lie Ben said when he said 'Everything I ever did, I did for the island."? The sentences should be switched for the speakers..Eh? Well, I guess I went off on a tangent, there, but interresting huh?

After some consideration I recall that Jack did save her life. That would probably sawy one over the other right there.

Why does everyone think Locke is crazy though?

Rose just witnessed Locke murder an unarmed black woman. That would be reason enough for her to say, "I'm not going anywhere with that man." This doesn't mean that she wants to leave the island. It simply means she doesn't want to go anywhere with John Locke.

At this point, there is no guarantee that Jack and his crew will be rescued, what with the talk of the freighter people not being who they claim and all. If rescue *doesn't* happen, it would be prudent on Rose's part for her and Bernard to stay close with Jack's group just in case they all need to stay and survive together on the island. Locke's group is taking the Barracks, so that would mean Jack's group would have to find a new, more securable location. (More securable than the beach, I mean.) It wouldn't make sense for Rose and Bernard to go off by themselves alone and expect to survive in the jungle. Rose is a great judge of character and she is making the right decision.

Maybe Rose and Bernard go to the caves and they die there thus becoming Adam & Eve in some crazy time loop.

j/k

(In regard to all points preceding expressing why she goes with Jack)

Yeah - because nothing says "You can trust me" like a preparedness to explode a man's head like a dropped watermelon, 4 foot away from a grieving woman with a baby in her arms and an endangered pregnancy mother-to-be.

Boone's 'sacrifice' is an irrelevance - I don't believe anyone but Jack or Des knows John ever thought that - and when he spoke to Des it was a retraction.

Something up ....Rose would have been wiping John's brains off her shoes had that gun discharged. She's a smart woman - she knows that.

So pleased btw to find this here this morning :biggrin: I was come in myself post:

The Elephant in the Drawing Room - why aren't we talking about it? ...and here yous all are!

I totally understand why Rose wouldn't want to go with Locke. The dude just through an ax in an innocent womens back simply because she came to rescue folks. She knows the man is out of his mind and would sacrifice anyone including her and Bernard to the island.


Jack has always been there from Rose. I remember in season one how awesome Jack was witbh Rose about her missing Bernard and they did share seats together on the plane. She knows no matter what Jack will be for the survivors best intrests not the island.