Ben heals from his surgey, but slower then he expected to.
As if the island is saying. Get it together I'm not pleased with you any more.

Naomi hits some trees on her way down to the island and she heals up from that rather quickly, but when John stabs her she dies from that wound. As if the island said, I now know your no good for this place.

Ben shot John in the chest left him to die and in no time John is back up and fine. Of course he is all about the island.

So is John unstoppable at this point? Can he even be killed, right now?

I just don't get it and it is one aspect of the show that is starting to bug me.

Locke and Mikhial seem to be invinceable and heal very quickly.

But how come others who die stay dead?

I get that at some point some one will explain this but it makes for a lot of unreoslved issues.

Is Bea Klugh one of those instant healers, which is why she encouraged Mikhial to shoot her last season.

How come Ben didn't seem suprised to see Locke up and running? If he expected it why shoot him in the first place?

Am I missing something here?

Mikhail never actually died. And TPTB have stated numerous times that once you're dead on the Island ... well, you're dead. So no one is coming back to life.

But if you think about it, Locke = good for the Island, thus healing.
Naomi = bad for the Island, thus dieing.

Mikhail even says, I believe, in Catch 22 that people heal faster on the Island. It's always been on of the property's that the Island has had, but i'm sure your "communion" with the Island, as in the case of John, effects your healing rate, and what it will heal.

I just don't get it and it is one aspect of the show that is starting to bug me.

Locke and Mikhial seem to be invinceable and heal very quickly.

But how come others who die stay dead?

I get that at some point some one will explain this but it makes for a lot of unreoslved issues.

Is Bea Klugh one of those instant healers, which is why she encouraged Mikhial to shoot her last season.

How come Ben didn't seem suprised to see Locke up and running? If he expected it why shoot him in the first place?

Am I missing something here?

Well even if Ben was surprised I doubt hed show it........he keeps his display of emotions down to a bare minimum but I think Ben shot him figuring A) At best he'd die and B) if he did live it would at least slow Locke down giving Ben time to make his next move.

As for "Patchy"(Mikhal).......Im sure he'll pop up again (at The Temple?) just get killed AGAIN and maybe that time the 3rd time will be the "charm"???

As for "Patchy"(Mikhal).......Im sure he'll pop up again (at The Temple?) just get killed AGAIN and maybe that time the 3rd time will be the "charm"???

I think the writers have already said that he's officially dead now.

But if you think about it, Locke = good for the Island, thus healing.
Naomi = bad for the Island, thus dieing.

Agreed. The healing properties also seem to diminish as a character's faith in the island diminishes, ie. Locke's ability to walk. Also, Ben must have been good steward of the island for a period of time, but something must have changed just prior to the crash of 815.

My t dux, Ive been wondering this same thing. Even Sayid healed quickly when he was shot in the arm by Mikhail. He didnt even seem to experience much pain from the injury.

Yeah, this can be annoying. And I suspect we won't get the answer for awhile, just hints as to the "island" healing them for its own reasons.

Was Ben testing the Island's loyalty to him when he shot Locke? He's so pompous he probably thought he could change its mind, too.

Maybe they did die but now they're in the same state as Charlie appears to be in Hurley's flashforward - what we would perhaps call a "ghost" but able to act as a live entity, to slap and throw knives, etc. So rather than wondering why the island heals certain people we should be wondering why certain people can still appear after death.

That might mean tptb have been pulling our legs a bit when they say "when a person dies on the island, they stay dead." And maybe anyone who is dead still has the potential to appear in present time and affect things.

Anyone else think that Richard might be dead also?

I think it has to do with if your there for the good of the island or not. Naomi healed fast from her fall out of the trees, but died from the knife wound. As if the island figured out she was up to no good.

And how did she climb that tree with that knife in her back? Which reminds me, did you see the way Kate stared at Naomi's back when Naomi was making the call? Wasn't the knife gone? Did she pull it out herself or did Locke help her?

And how did she climb that tree with that knife in her back? Which reminds me, did you see the way Kate stared at Naomi's back when Naomi was making the call? Wasn't the knife gone? Did she pull it out herself or did Locke help her?
Good question:confused:

Just a thought, Locke only has one kidney. I have no idea which one hes missing, but if its on the side where he was shot, surely its possible the bullet went through and through causing no more damage than a flesh wound, and healing quickly on the island?

Angie
xxxxx

Ok, so we obviously were all thrown for a loop when Locke was revealed to have healed from his wheelchair-inducing injury.

Then when the hatch door came down on his leg, Locke only limped for one episode, then he was as good as gold.

Now, Locke gets shot and HOURS LATER he is fine. No flinching, no obvious signs of injury, no blood, no bullet hole. Nothing.

Wha?

I know the obvious answer I am going to get here is "the island healed him", which I am willing to accept...but this is the fastest we have ever seen anyone healed on the island, Mikail included.

Thoughts?

Mmm...I'd still say that Mikhail wins.
At least, I think it would hurt A LOT more to get shot with a harpoon gun. :smile:

Well it still seemed Mikail was injured by the harpoon gun, just not killed by it. He was kind of flinching and squinting his eyes when moving around, much like Locke was when he killed Naomi.

But then when Hurley runs into him, he seems fine...

I is confused.

Really? Looking back at the screenshots Mikhail lies still for a very long time after being shot ... Then Desmond notices that he's gone.

I guess when it comes to Locke and healing especially, i'm not all that surprised.

It's one of those, I dunno what you'd call it...

the fact that he got shot 8-9 months ago in the finale in May makes me feel like... hey, he should have recovered. It's been a long time. You know? It may be because it's the premiere, but I kind of just accepted it. Haha.

John is "special."

2 things.

it was A LOT more than 4 hours. It was at least a day or 2. But i still agree it's weird.

also, ben didn't seem shocked to see him alive.

well what about naomi, she nearly died parachuting down, then was seemingly healed, only to be killed by another blunt trauma to her abdoman. why did she die THIS time i wonder?

well what about naomi, she nearly died parachuting down, then was seemingly healed, only to be killed by another blunt trauma to her abdoman. why did she die THIS time i wonder?


She was killed from a knife wound in her back? Not her stomach.

But has Naomi died? Until I see it or the characters mention it, I can't assume it on this show. ;)

i think the island has obviously taken a liking to Locke that it has not extended to Naomi. Don't forget, it didn't heal Ben's tumor either, and his rec.overy wasn't going so well until Locke showed up. also, Locke's permanent paralysis was healed INSTANTLY, so i don't think him healing from a gunshot would is all that shocking.

eta: kate said in the episode last night that naomi was dead, and we saw her die after making the call to the freighter for Kate

I just noticed how after looking for Locke, Jack asks Kate "Did you find anything". I believe she was looking for his tracks. She says 'nothing, it's like he just disappeared'. Now, isn't Kate the island's queen of all tracking? She knew enough to know Naomi left two tracks. Why wouldn't she be able to find Locke's tracks? It's also wierd that Locke shows up where Hurley is freaking out about Jacob's house. I mentioned somewhere else that I thought it was wierd that Hurley sees the cabin reappear and tries to wish it away only to have Locke standing right over him.
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K!

i agree, madge, something is up with John Locke. He was all over the island in that episode! one minute with jack and kate, the next at the beach with Sawyer et al., and then he appears right after hurley has a run in with Jacon's shack. personally, i think he was in the shack and he was the eye that we saw, and that jacob is helping locke to protect the island.

I wouldn't exactly say its surprising that Locke got healed. Like I said, I can accept the "island healed him" response. I am just amazed at how fast the island worked this time.

Plus, even if the island healed him, it doesn't heal his clothes. No bullet hole.

He was shot earlier that day, then went and stabbed Naomi and was *obviously* injured, then slunk away. That exact same night, he shows up on the beach, in the woods, and with the losties totally unscathed.

Can this really just be pushed to the side of "oh it healed him"? Nothing has even been healed that fast on the island from what we have seen, and even it is did, does it heal his clothes? Because it sure didn't heal Lockes cargo pants when the door smashed his leg.

I don't think it's his eye since the eye brown and Locke's are a striking blue-ish color. But yeah, he is running all over the place and apparently not leaving a trail as he does it.
Did Hurley actually fall behind or did something happen that put him out of earshot of the group and place him at the site of the cabin? Something definitely happened to make the cabin reappear in front of him and Locke appearing there only moment later. Did Locke make it happen? Is that Locke? If so, why isn't he leaving tracks? Are we back to the others don't make tracks thing? I know it was explained in a dvd bonus feature, though I never saw that so it's harder to just brush off. Not everyone will happen to see that bonus feature.

When I think of Mikail and the beatings he took, I'm reminded of Ghostbusters 2:

Vigo the Carpathian, born 1505, died 1610 --
And he didn't die of old age either. He was
poisoned, stabbed, shot, hung, stretched,
disemboweled, drawn and quartered.
Just before his head died, his
last words were, "Death is but a door,
time is but a window. I'll be back.

When I think of Mikail and the beatings he took, I'm reminded of Ghostbusters 2:

Vigo the Carpathian, born 1505, died 1610 --
And he didn't die of old age either. He was
poisoned, stabbed, shot, hung, stretched,
disemboweled, drawn and quartered.
Just before his head died, his
last words were, "Death is but a door,
time is but a window. I'll be back.

Damn. Like on the same day?
105 when he died? Well, after that long I guess it's not entirely horrible to be poisoned, stabbed, shot, hung, stretched, disemboweled, drawn and quartered.

2 things.

it was A LOT more than 4 hours. It was at least a day or 2. But i still agree it's weird.

also, ben didn't seem shocked to see him alive.

I am not sure of the exact time. I don't think it's that weird, we've seen this kind of stuff happen before. I mean if the guy can walk when he gets to the island, then this shouldn't be too shocking. Look at Mikhail, he told Ben that when he was pushed by Locke through the bolder thingys that it wasn't set to a fatal level. However how does he explain getting up and walking away from a harpoon through the chest?
Ben didn't seem shocked because he wasn't. He knows what can happen on the island. Whether he knew that Locke would be okay or not I am not sure. Maybe he did it to see if he would be or not.

Mikail DID get up and walk away from the harpoon - but he was injured. Same with Naomi. They weren't fully healed with no blood on their shirts, no cuts or tears in their shirt, and no wound - unlike Locke.

That man was fully healed. The others weren't.

I know, I know, the island and locke are special and yadda yadda. I get that. It's the *speed* at which he was healed (as well as the matter of his shirt not being bloodstained or with a bullet hole). It's totally unlike any other "healing" we have seen so far.

Commence with the "the island is healing him" responses....hahaha.

But... is it really Locke?

But... is it really Locke?

I wondered that too.

But if it wasn't that would mean Smokey was manifesting himself as someone to the entire group of losties - something which has never happened before either.

So yeah, I am a little confused. I think the easiest way to explain it is "the island healed him fast", but something makes me think there is still more to it than that.

But if it wasn't that would mean Smokey was manifesting himself as someone to the entire group of losties - something which has never happened before either.

... never happened THAT WE KNOW OF. :D

Then again, I'm not one for plot points like that. However, I've been reconsidering Vincent after the last mobisode. Perhaps Smokey took on Vincent because that would be the easiest living thing to impersonate without drawing suspicion?

Or... the Others had plants (Ethan, Goodwin). Maybe one of the original Losties is a plant from the Island realm (the Other Others). ;)

The island not only healed Locke, but bathed him and laundered his clothes too. Now that's service.

What if Locke is what Charlie has become in Hurley's flashforward? Dead, but still there. What if everyone that has had a miraculous resurrection was actually dead to begin with?

i agree, madge, something is up with John Locke. He was all over the island in that episode! one minute with jack and kate, the next at the beach with Sawyer et al., and then he appears right after hurley has a run in with Jacon's shack.

When was he on the beach?

What if Locke is what Charlie has become in Hurley's flashforward? Dead, but still there. What if everyone that has had a miraculous resurrection was actually dead to begin with?

You mean like Mikhail? Or Naomi?

... or Charlie in season 1?

The thing about them being dead... Damon and Carlton have said many times that they are not dead, they are not in purgatory, and everything is really happening to real people on the island.

Isaac of Uluru told Rose that Ayer's Rock didn't possess the right "energy" to heal her.

Perhaps the Island has "energy" which is properly aligned to some people, but not others.

I've always thought that the electromagnetic energy on the island heals people faster but whatever greater force is at work on the island heals people who deserve it. Locke, especially Rose. But it turned its back on Ben and allowed him to get cancer.

I've always thought that the electromagnetic energy on the island heals people faster but whatever greater force is at work on the island heals people who deserve it. Locke, especially Rose. But it turned its back on Ben and allowed him to get cancer.

it also turned its back on The Others and stopped letting them have babies, because they were resorting to too much technology (The DHARMA Barracks, refrigerators, microwaves, satellites, etc.) But for some reason, it allowed Claire to be able to give birth. was it Juliet's drugs that helped her? that would be the scientific answer. was it because Claire is a good person and was destined to have Aaron on the island? that would be the faith based answer. there's two answers for every question posed on the show.

duckab234 I think the questions you raise go to the overarching question of coincidence or fate? Every one of the insidents you mention could be viewed as coincidence or fate. Which is why I like the show.

I've always thought that the electromagnetic energy on the island heals people faster but whatever greater force is at work on the island heals people who deserve it. Locke, especially Rose. But it turned its back on Ben and allowed him to get cancer.

Yeah Ben gets cancer and the Island wont cure it, but it does for Rose. It puzzles me its never brought up that Rose was healed and its like nobody knows but Bernard and Locke.

Maybe it does do it for people who deserve it like Locke, Rose or Jin. Maybe its for people who have had a bad life, maybe.

Maybe they did die but now they're in the same state as Charlie appears to be in Hurley's flashforward - what we would perhaps call a "ghost" but able to act as a live entity, to slap and throw knives, etc. So rather than wondering why the island heals certain people we should be wondering why certain people can still appear after death.

That might mean tptb have been pulling our legs a bit when they say "when a person dies on the island, they stay dead." And maybe anyone who is dead still has the potential to appear in present time and affect things.

Anyone else think that Richard might be dead also?

Yeah - I'm thinking that quite a lot of our Lostie characters may already be dead (killed in the Oceanic crash) but not know it. Their spirits manifest themselves on the Island, physically. It would certainly explain how Locke could walk again and how he seemingly recovered so quickly from a number of wounds ...including what should have been a fatal gut shot...

One theory - the plane did crash in the ocean and sink into the trench but metaphysically the people on it were brought to the Island to live out an afterlife. So they're all 'dead' ... but somehow it's possible to enter this place from the real world too whilst still alive and maybe for dead people to leave it and manifest themselves as 'alive' in the real world.


On the other hand, we have seen people die on the island (seemingly permanently) so I'm not quite sure what to make of that. Maybe if you 'die' on the Island you pass on to yet another plane of existence. Who knows ... but we'd better start seeing some answers soon. The show seems to see-saw between a science fiction and fantasy scenario.

I think the writers have already said that he's officially dead now.
Oh did they I??? I missed that!!!!!!!!!!
I hope thats true as if he turns up a THIRD time Im gonna get a little testy!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ben heals from his surgey, but slower then he expected to.
As if the island is saying. Get it together I'm not pleased with you any more.

Naomi hits some trees on her way down to the island and she heals up from that rather quickly, but when John stabs her she dies from that wound. As if the island said, I now know your no good for this place.
Ben shot John in the chest left him to die and in no time John is back up and fine. Of course he is all about the island.
So is John unstoppable at this point? Can he even be killed, right now?

First- regarding Naomi.. My initial reaction to her "last" death while with Kate & on the SAT phone was "she's so faking that" - and then when her final words were Tell my sister I love her... I thought.. aha.. it's some sort of code - either we find out she has no sister or that was in fact some sort of an i'm in trouble code. Unless her sister's name is mega long.. it would make sense for her to mention her name.. Tell my sister Glendathegoodwitch I love her.. obviously I have no proof of her not death.. but it's a gut feeling so far..

I'd tend to think that John is as unstoppable as anyone else on the island right now. UNLESS (and quite possibly) the healing ability is tied into doing what the island wants done -= so the folks who do more (or can do more potentially) in what the islands interests are get that much more protection..

I
Ben didn't seem shocked because he wasn't. He knows what can happen on the island. Whether he knew that Locke would be okay or not I am not sure. Maybe he did it to see if he would be or not.


Then why would Ben even attempt to 'kill' him in that manner in the first place? If he practically expects Locke to get up and become a problem down the line, I'd be a lot more inclined to kill him in a manner by which to ensure he actually dies.


I just think that when Ben arrived at the cockpit and saw Locke there, there should have at least been a look exchanged between the two or some kind of reaction shot (either surprise or frustration) from Ben at Locke still being alive. At least for the sake of continuity and to remind fans of the issues between those two.

Ikonn, I agree with you, there should have been some kind of acknowledgment of what Ben had done to Locke. I also found it strange that Ben would so quickly choose to go with Locke's group. It tells me that Ben must be really scared of the boat people. Maybe Ben will now become Locke's servant for lack of a better word.

I don't really see Locke wanting to kill Ben. Surely he must not fear him at all now because it appears that he (Locke) cannot be killed. Also, he may need Ben and his information to try and evade the newcomers.

This is very strange how fast Locke was healed. After TTLG back in May, I was involved in a chat on another board that dealt with gunshot wounds on the island and it seemed that all gunshot wounds on the island (other than Locke's) were either fatal or took a longer time than most injuries to heal. Sawyer's wound took a long time, and Sayid's wasn't as long as Sawyer's but still took longer than most wounds. The theory on this chat was that because bullet wounds were caused by guns aka technology, they took longer to heal. Then of course Locke puts a wrinkle in all of this.

We all know how "special" Locke is and that he has a special connection with the island, but there is basically no evidence that he was shot at all when the Losties see him. I think it may have to do with the visit from Walt. Before Walt appeared, Locke was paralyzed again, because he had lost faith/hope, yet when Walt appeared and told him to "get up....you're not paralyzed", Locke wasn't paralyzed anymore. This renewed faith in the island and possibly a strong power of suggestion I think is what helped with the healing. Just my opinion though.

I know I'm not going to be able to explain what I'm thinking very clearly... my thought was that Locke was there in a sort of out of his body way -- with Hurley that is. So he wasn't actually there - at least in his shot body - but he was there real enough for Hurley to see him there (much like Hurley saw Charlie - who is dead, but there) I guess I'm thinking that they're sort of projecting - an out of body projection that is seen as them being in their body.. just a different body - which appears to be identical to themself..
:eek2:

I just think that when Ben arrived at the cockpit and saw Locke there, there should have at least been a look exchanged between the two or some kind of reaction shot (either surprise or frustration) from Ben at Locke still being alive. At least for the sake of continuity and to remind fans of the issues between those two.

Ben saw Locke before they met at the cockpit though, when Locke knifed Naomi in the back. It was a pretty intense moment so Ben's shock may have been overridden when he yelled at Locke to shoot Jack. Once the whole exchange with Locke and Jakc took place, Locke disappeared so Ben didn't get to investigate why Locke survived.

Then when they met at the cockpit, Jack jumped Locke and that whole melee occurred, and plus seeing Locke for the second time wasn't so surprising. Once they begin their trek back to the Barracks, I'm sure Ben and Locke will have it out.

I do want to point out that Ben keeps saying that all LIVING people on the island will die. Why doesn't he just say all people?

:biggrin:your comment re: Locke being shot
was priceless--gave me a good chuckle--
the suspension of disbelief that this show requires continues to amaze me

this comment is in response to lostinthesupermarket's comment

I think he put on a new shirt, and did his best to stand tall and walk like a man.

I just noticed how after looking for Locke, Jack asks Kate "Did you find anything". I believe she was looking for his tracks. She says 'nothing, it's like he just disappeared'. Now, isn't Kate the island's queen of all tracking? She knew enough to know Naomi left two tracks. Why wouldn't she be able to find Locke's tracks?
Locke can fly......

Well Walt did show up after John got shot. And even though it was an island manifestation, it WAS a manifestation of Walt and Walt as we all know is special. Plus now that Locke has heard Jacob maybe they have a connection. So between the natural healing properties of the island, Walt's appearance and Jacob's possible intervention it makes sense that he would heal pretty fast. Not to mention we have NO idea what happened with Locke after his scene with Walt. For all we know he could have gotten out of that hole and gone to see Jacob. That would be cool. I'd very much like to see an entire episode devoted to Jacob with a flashback telling us what happened to Locke after Walt appeared to him....that would be a GREAT and very helpful episode. Talk about question-answering.

Locke can fly......

Sorry, but according to the thread asking why Jack squacked, it appears that:

Jack is the son of Icarus, and he's the one with the flying abilities

I definitely believe that the Island was responsible for healing Locke so fast, and I have said all along that there was a clue that we were missing in that scene specifically (there have been other people as well, but I didn't see a thread).

As far as I can tell, Ben shoots Locke in the same area his kidney would have been....but he *doesn't* have a kidney there!! Any other person would likely have died within minutes from the bullet shredding their kidney and internal bleeding.....thoughts?

I definitely believe that the Island was responsible for healing Locke so fast, and I have said all along that there was a clue that we were missing in that scene specifically (there have been other people as well, but I didn't see a thread).

As far as I can tell, Ben shoots Locke in the same area his kidney would have been....but he *doesn't* have a kidney there!! Any other person would likely have died within minutes from the bullet shredding their kidnet and interal bleeding.....thoughts?

I like the idea of all the possibilities, but truthfully, I think we might be reading into this too much. I think, and I'll emphasize 'think', the wound Locke had was simply NOT a mortal woun. Of course, the whole kidney removed thing has some merit; but, IF this were a show based on realistic bio-med-health matters, Locke likely would have died from an infection, if he didn't bleed out. Just a thought.

I can get that the lsland or Jacob or whatever healed him quickly, I still want to know why Kate couldn't find any sign of his trail when she could find Naomi without a problem. Both of Naomi's trails. Naomi must have had some training to know to make a phony trail.
So why didn't Locke leave a trail? Previously they've told us that the Others don't leave a trail...
Not really spoilery but...
I know it's been said this was explained in bonus footage on one of the dvds, but that doesn't help the non dvd buying audience. I can't believe they would just let that fact drop. I haven't seen that explanation so I'm having a hard time buying it. Why set it up only to explain it in bonus footage?

I think there are maybe a few inconsistencies just because of the huge amount of time since the writers worked on the last episode. That's lag enough to forget that the island takes two days to heal a broken leg.

Just some random strangeness here. But in the season finale of s3 and the first two episodes of s4 Ben has takin some nasty punches. Jack, Sawyer (twice) and the crazy Frech lady whose name escapes me at the moment, have all at least hit him. There's also probably some that I've missed. I mean it hurt ME to watch him repeatedly get the beatdown and he should probably have lost a few teeth if not had a concussion. Is this evidence that Jacob still backs him up to some extent? Or is it just lazyness on part of TPTB? Is island healing directly under the influence of Jacob? If so it is evidence that Jacob at least "needs" Linus alive, or is being forced to help him. Then again when he shot Locke he didn't seem quite 100% that Jacob wouldn't help Locke, so he obviously dosen't have complete controll over him...

Not sure if it has anything to do with Jacob, but I do find it amazing that for a man that has recently gone through major surgery has been able to take so many fierce beatings and carry on not 2 min. later. Perhaps it has something to do with the healing properties of the island.