This may seem like a crazy idea, but I just rewatched the episode and this came to me...


Matthew Abaddon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbadon), that ultra creepy guy, claiming to be an Oceanic Airlines's attorney, said to Hurley that he was there to give him a little upgrade. Then he mentioned a 'facility' where he could see the 'ocean'.

What if he meant 'The Island'?????

I mean, obviously, this guy does NOT work for Oceanic. So who does he work for?
In another thread, they are saying that this guy could actually be 'the devil'. Now, remember Cooper's definition of the Island? He said it was actually HELL.
I AM NOT saying the island is hell!!!!! But these are all little references or hints that when we put them together, we could arrive at certain 'entertaining' ideas.


Also, I think it is pretty safe to assume that Jack and the rest of the Oceanic 6 are gonna come back to the island. We know that Jack has been trying for a while without success. So they are gonna need somebody's else help in order to find the island back.
So Abbadon could be this person. He might have the right connections. Or he could actually be of a supernatural nature....

In a certain way, I picture him as CHARON (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_%28mythology%29), the Ferryman of Hades.

Or in a more generalized way, he could be defined as a psychopomp. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopomp)

Many religions have these kinds of guides to the UNDERWORLD.
The UNDERWORLD is generally defined as a place where dead souls go. Does it sound familiar?
Also, interestingly, UNDERWORLD is what the symbols on the timer translated to.

Let's take the Celtic counterpart, for example. Check this out....

Manannán mac Lir is the god of the sea. He is often seen as a psychopomp (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopomp), and considered to have strong connections to the Otherworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_World) islands of the dead, as well as to weather and the mists between the worlds. He is usually counted as one of the Tuatha Dé Danann (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuatha_D%C3%A9_Danann), although most scholars consider him to be of an older race of deities. He features, under slightly varying names, across early Irish (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_mythology), Scots (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_mythology), Welsh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_mythology), and Manx (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isle_of_Man) myth.

Gwyn ap Nudd (/ˈgwɨn ap ˈnɨːð/, sometimes found with the antiquated spelling Gwynn ap Nudd) was king of the Tylwyth Teg (the "Fair Folk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faerie)") and also, in later tradition, identified as the ruler of Annwn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annwn) (the Underworld). He escorted the souls of the dead there, and led a pack of supernatural hounds, Cŵn Annwn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C5%B5n_Annwn) (see also Wild Hunt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Hunt)).Now, since you are already there, take your time and check the Annwn entry, please!!!


And to make things even more interesting... I would also dare to say that Charlie was actually Matthew Abbadon. Pay attention to what Charlie said to Hurley: 'THEY NEED YOU, HUGO'. That helped Hurley to realized they need to go back. Doesn't he suggest that to Jack while playing basketball? He is trying to guide these people back to the island. WHY?
That is a very good question to which I have no answers right now....

Early attempt to make a theory out of this idea (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showpost.php?p=1737973&postcount=19)

Interesting theory. I'm not sure what to think of it right now, but the producers did say that this is not PURGATORY. They didn't say anything about hell, though. I, for one, would be very surprised if they actually go this route.

As for Matthew Abbadon, I agree that he may be the "ticket" back to the island. I ran his name through an anagram solver to see if any clues would come up. So far, I saw BOATMAN and BOATMEN. One interesting result is "WHAT BAD BOATMEN".

Interesting theory. I'm not sure what to think of it right now, but the producers did say that this is not PURGATORY. They didn't say anything about hell, though. I, for one, would be very surprised if they actually go this route.

As for Matthew Abbadon, I agree that he may be the "ticket" back to the island. I ran his name through an anagram solver to see if any clues would come up. So far, I saw BOATMAN and BOATMEN. One interesting result is "WHAT BAD BOATMEN".

Interesting. All I can think of is A Bad 'Un (A Bad One). :D

It's being floated around that he looked like smoke as he left the room... I'm at work and can't get to ABC to watch (no entertainment allowed.. LOL). Does anyone have a screencap of it?

I'm lovin' all your theories... I'm particularly a fan of your "one it - one out" theory, which I think might just be the answer to the show :)

Here, however, I have to disagree: In "Through the Looking Glass" Jack tells Kate that he owns a golden Oceanic ticket / pass... where did he get it from? Presumably from the same "lawyer..." (maybe not)?

If the ticket was really an aid to find The Island back, why is Jack still so desperately trying to find it?

The Golden Ticket Jack mentions is a ticket to fly Oceanic whenever and wherever he wants. Not to the Island. This is a way of compensating the O6 for their loss and suffering.

Okay guys! I found this as an anagram of Matthew Abbadon: ANATHEMA.

This would definitely touch the topic brought up by Fierro.


a·nath·e·ma
1.a person or thing detested or loathed: That subject is anathema to him.

2.a person or thing accursed or consigned to damnation or destruction.

3.a formal ecclesiastical curse involving excommunication.

4.any imprecation of divine punishment. 5.a curse; execration.

I'm lovin' all your theories... I'm particularly a fan of your "one it - one out" theory, which I think might just be the answer to the show :)

Here, however, I have to disagree: In "Through the Looking Glass" Jack tells Kate that he owns a golden Oceanic ticket / pass... where did he get it from? Presumably from the same "lawyer..." (maybe not)?

If the ticket was really an aid to find The Island back, why is Jack still so desperately trying to find it?
Thanks!!! Glad you like my theories!!!

As far as this one. I don't think this guy works for Oceanic at all!!!!!! That is why he didn't have any ID card. And in this case, 'ticket', doesn't mean literally a physical object!!!!! I'm just saying that he is the only way to get back to the island, because he is the 'ferryman'.
Jack's oceanic tickets have nothing to do with this theory.



As for Matthew Abbadon, I agree that he may be the "ticket" back to the island. I ran his name through an anagram solver to see if any clues would come up. So far, I saw BOATMAN and BOATMEN. One interesting result is "WHAT BAD BOATMEN".

Excellent anagrams!!!!

Interesting theory. I'm not sure what to think of it right now, but the producers did say that this is not PURGATORY. They didn't say anything about hell, though. I, for one, would be very surprised if they actually go this route.


I NEVER was a purgatory theory supporter. But there are some parallels that CAN NOT be ignored. And yes, you are right, they never said anything about HELL, did they?

Personally I believe the island is a real place. But it is not located in a normal place.
I mean, I have always been a supporter of the island being in a different dimension or reality.
Could it be Hell???? I don't know. It doesn't look like the way Hell is depicted in most religions. But certain things point towards it having certain hell-like features...
Remember Sun's comment that they were being punished there for things they have done in the world? That is the basic definition of Hell.

I always try to avoid the more religious aspects of the show because I am not very good at that, but, take the whispers for example...
Couldn't they be the 'souls' of dead people talking on the island?

Now, if the island is hell, where are ALL the bad souls???????
Where do the whispers come from????

Here's an idea for the whispers. Could they be a group from a parallel universe, or timeline? The whispers may not be directed at the people on the island that we see, but rather conversations with each other in that parallel universe/timeline.

I can imagine it now. The people in the parallel "place" are hearing the "whispers" of Hurley and Sawyer arguing! :D

Here's an idea for the whispers. Could they be a group from a parallel universe, or timeline? The whispers may not be directed at the people on the island that we see, but rather conversations with each other in that parallel universe/timeline.

I can imagine it now. The people in the parallel "place" are hearing the "whispers" of Hurley and Sawyer arguing! :D

That's what I always thought. So what is hell? Could it be another parallel universe in itself?
What is heaven, then? Another parallel dimension?
The island could be a way to connect Religion with Science. Faith VS Science!!!!!


I found some pretty neat connections and an interesting possible name for the Island....


GEHENNA (http://www.concordant.org/expohtml/DeathAndJudgment/TheGehennaOfFire.html)

Check the reference to ANATHEMA...

I hope not. I hope it's better than the Hell idea.

I definately agree that the man was not from Oceanic.

How about this...how do we know that Hurley didn't imagine the nurse, the dude, Charlie, the whole lot? If he's crazy...

Jack's oceanic tickets have nothing to do with this theory.

Aaah... ok. I see now where you're going with this. Guess my imagination is too limited that I couldn't see there might not be a connection, even though I got it that the lawyer is not with Oceanic... :laugh:

He's definitely a sinister character and I'm curious to find out where and how he all fits in. Do you think he's with Widmore or any of these mysterious entities? If so, how do they fit into your latest theory?

Aaah... ok. I see now where you're going with this. Guess my imagination is too limited that I couldn't see there might not be a connection, even though I got it that the lawyer is not with Oceanic... :laugh:

He's definitely a sinister character and I'm curious to find out where and how he all fits in. Do you think he's with Widmore or any of these mysterious entities? If so, how do they fit into your latest theory?

I don't know what to think of his nature....

Is he even human? Is he a native? Is he Jacob?

And so far, I can't find anything that can relate him with my 1-IN, 1-OUT Portal Theory.:frown:
I can't help but feel that this guy comes from a more supernatural origin, while the portal theory is more science-based.

I NEVER was a purgatory theory supporter. But there are some parallels that CAN NOT be ignored. And yes, you are right, they never said anything about HELL, did they?


I don't have the quote right in front of me but I'm 100% sure that they said the "survivors" are not DEAD.

That would exclude Purgatory as well as Hell.

In Revelations, Abbadon held the keys to Satan's prison.

i also thought that when he said a place with a view of the ocean he was referring to the island. i believe he was a "ferryman" of some sort

I had a slightly different impression of Matthew Abbadon.

First, I'd agree he probably didn't work for Oceanic airlines because of the business card conversation, but for a different reason. While something like that can reasonably happen (there have been times when I didn't have my cards with me, yet I do work for my employer...) when it does happen, it's normal to offer to _get_ a businesss card to the requestor. Here, it's more than likely that Abbadon wouldn't want Hurley to check up on any contact info on a business card because the info would have to be fake, so he never offered to get him one.

But his question to Hurley, to the effect of, "They're still alive, aren't they?" suggests to me that he was trying to get information out of Hurley and was looking for some reaction from him by catching him off guard after the sudden question. This is a common interrogation (and interview!) technique. I've used it in interviewing prospective hires for my employer; happily, I've never done any interrrogations...:biggrin: I'm suspecting he was trying to find out if any of those left behind on the island are still alive, and that might suggest that Abbadon doesn't know.

Now, we'd suspect that from Jack's "I'm tired of lying" line to Kate in the S3 finale, from Hurley's denial of having met Ana Lucia, and from last night's exchange between Jack and Hurley that they're keeping a big secret of some sort, I think Abbadon was trying to fid out what really happened and was hoping to entice Hurley to a more "private" retreat where Abbadon's people could "persuade" Hurley to tell all...

Those who know of my "Three Kings" theory know that I think that the three wealthy industrialists in the story background, Hanso, Widmore, and Paik, represent the past, present, and future controllers of the island, with Paik's people being Naomi's employer. Presumably, at the time Abbadon asked Hurley the question, Paik held the island, so in that theory, Abbadon would be an agent of one of the "Kings" shut out from the island; either Hanso or Widmore...

I don't have the quote right in front of me but I'm 100% sure that they said the "survivors" are not DEAD.

That would exclude Purgatory as well as Hell.

I think we all know they are NOT dead. No doubt about that. You can't die TWICE. Ask Boone or Shannon, for example.
What I am suggesting with Hell is that, perhaps, the island is a physical representation of something like a religious place. In this case, hell.
I mean, it is a concept very hard to grasp. But there are many many tales and legends about this kind of places. Every single religion of the world has an UNDERWORLD.
The island might just be that.
If you check Anwnn for example, it is said that the only way to get to it is by dying or 'almost' dying.


Or perhaps we could see it this way...
We are used to see GHOSTS in the realm of the living, right?
What if on the island is the other way around?

The losties could be living people in the realm of the DEAD. Which, by the way, it is called UNDERWORLD.

If the ticket was really an aid to find The Island back, why is Jack still so desperately trying to find it?

I think maybe they can't go back seperately. The Oceanic 6 must return together. That is why Jack tried to convince Kate...I think we will continue to see one of them trying to convince another in flashbacks until they each realize it's true.

Check this out! It is related to the Otherworld or Underworld, in this case, based on Celtic beliefs:

According to the Celtic beliefs, beyond the ocean lay the Isles of Paradise, lands inhabited by supernatural beings, where pain and disgrace are absent. In the Irish tradition, the ninth wave (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ninth_Wave) divides the land of the mortals from the Other World. Sterile women perform rituals at La Lanzada beach (Galicia), where nine successive waves wash over them and will help them become pregnant.100%
To summarize this theory in a few points:


1) The Island is an otherworldly place. The Underworld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld). It's the place where the souls of dead people go.

Examples of these places are:

Annwn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annwn), Elysian Fields (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium),Sheol (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/Sheol), etc.


2) Smokie is the guardian of this place. Much like Cerberus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerberus) for Greek Mythology, Anubis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anubis) for Egypt or Cŵn Annwn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C5%B5n_Annwn)in Welsh mythology.

*notice that they are all associated with dogs.

3) The Whispers are the dead people talking on the island.

If we consider the Island to be the realm of the dead. How come we don't see any ghosts? Where are they?
Simply put. They are there. They are all around. But only a few people can see them. But, of course, they all can hear them, as whispers.
Ben could see and hear his mother. Then he was recruited by Alpert. That seems to have been a sign of specialness.
He may have then chosen to communicate with Jacob.

4) Jacob. He is, of course, a ghost. But there must be something else about him that makes him different, powerful.
That's what the circle of ash is for. To keep Jacob inside that limited space.
His powers may have been witnessed during the TMBTC, when all that poltersgeist activity took place.
Also, the moving Cabin, in S4 Premiere may have been a sign of Jacob's ability to mess up with people's minds.


He could basically be considered the ruler (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underworld#Rulers_of_the_Underworld)of the Island as an Underworld realm. That would be why Ben refers to him as the person he responds to.

In this (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=86376) theory, Cerberus is Jacob's dog, literally. And this could just be the case. Many people, including myself, believe that Smokie shows signs of intelligence. But we might have been misled. He might do what he is just told to.
Then we have the hallucinations....
By popular belief, we would all agree that Smokie seems to be responsible for them. But, that could not be entirely true. Jacob could be the one behind the hallucinations. Then, if he needs to, Jacob would send Smokie to do its 'dirty' job. The best example of this would be Ecko's death.


5) Matthew Abaddon. He is a psychopomp. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopomp) He is the Ferryman of Hades.

Examples of these beings are:

Charon, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charon_%28mythology%29)Manaman Mac Lir (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manann%C3%A1n_mac_Lir)

His mission is to take the Oceanic 6 back to the Island, where they belong now. And if they refuse, he might have to kill them. He can't let them live off the island, now.

The person in the coffin might have been his first victim....

I'm definitely with you on the idea of Abbadon being the person or tool able to 'ferry' people back. I think that he, together with Charlie's ghost, are there to pursuade Hurley to return. While there are links between Abbadon and mythical figures such as the Ferryman of Hades, I think the writers are simply using those terms as reference points (in the same way as philosophers such as Locke and Hum), rather than this being a literal case of the island being the underworld. We'll see though. Abbadon is without doubt the ticket back to whatever and wherever the island is.

I have no doubt that there will be a reason why the 6 must return together. They don't have the weight to break some kind of barrier as individuals, but must do it collectively.

M

I think the writers are simply using those terms as reference points (in the same way as philosophers such as Locke and Hum), rather than this being a literal case of the island being the underworld. We'll see though. Abbadon is without doubt the ticket back to whatever and wherever the island is.

Now that makes perfect sense to me - and it would fit nicely with Fierro's Portal Theory as well... :)

I'm not quite on board yet with the idea that the Oceanic Six have to combine their strengths to find The Island, but I guess I'll just have to wait, watch and see... :)

I certainly didn't believe that Abbadon was an OA lawyer. I think it's more likely that he works for whichever group sent the freighter. That's a group that we know has an interest in the island.

I was also intrigued by the phrasing of his question to Hurley - "Are they alive?" - because while it's easy to assume he's talking about the Losties, what if he's asking about the freighter crew? We're all so het up with the idea that the O6 get rescued by the freighter somehow, but what if they don't? What if the crew that lands can't get off the island for some reason? That island seems to have a way of holding onto people that step on it, e.g. Danielle, Desmond.

In any case, Abaddon was very sinister in that brief appearance. I hope we get to see more of him.

I'm wondering if, at 16:20 (the ABC website version) Matthew does or doesn't seem to have pointy ears, a la Mr. Spock?
100%
But his question to Hurley, to the effect of, "They're still alive, aren't they?"



He asked, "are they still alive?"
100%
wesb said:
But his question to Hurley, to the effect of, "They're still alive, aren't they?"



He asked, "are they still alive?"

I was also intrigued by the phrasing of his question to Hurley - "Are they alive?" - because while it's easy to assume he's talking about the Losties, what if he's asking about the freighter crew? We're all so het up with the idea that the O6 get rescued by the freighter somehow, but what if they don't? What if the crew that lands can't get off the island for some reason? That island seems to have a way of holding onto people that step on it, e.g. Danielle, Desmond.

That was a great moment. Yes, he actually asked "Are they still alive?". This leads me to believe that he was referring to anybody who might still be on the island, and that, together with Charlie's appearance to Hurley, we were seeing an external force emploring Hurley to go back. I'm sure we'll see smoething similar happening to Jack, and leading him to the point where he calls Kate and realises it himself. I also think that the survival of certain people on the island is one of the secrets that Jack is asking Hurley whether he has revealed. Abbadon wants that information

I can't wait to see if we get more of Abbadon

... then why did he ask Hurley if they were still alive? Surely if he could get to the island he would go there and find out for himself.

I might be alone here but I also think he may be Dharma.

crandal87 - Because everybody is assuming that Abaddon doesn't know the answer to that question. I think he does though. I think he knows exactly what has happened, and his "Are they still alive?" question is designed to appeal to Hurley's guilt over leaving (which we see manisfested at the end of his conversation with Jack). Abaddon, together with Charlie's appearance, is designed to push Hurley to say to Jack that they should go back. Jack then says the same to Kate.

There are these forces pushing them back to the island, in the same way that outside forces pushed them there in the first place. Abaddon is the way back this time. The writers don't name characters for no reason. :)

M

crandal87 - Because everybody is assuming that Abaddon doesn't know the answer to that question. I think he does though. I think he knows exactly what has happened, and his "Are they still alive?" question is designed to appeal to Hurley's guilt over leaving (which we see manisfested at the end of his conversation with Jack). Abaddon, together with Charlie's appearance, is designed to push Hurley to say to Jack that they should go back. Jack then says the same to Kate.

There are these forces pushing them back to the island, in the same way that outside forces pushed them there in the first place. Abaddon is the way back this time. The writers don't name characters for no reason. :)

M
couldn't agree more....

Abaddon really meant 'We both know they are still alive and in their fate is uncertain. Don't you want to come back to help them?';)

'upgrade'

;)

As for Matthew Abbadon, I agree that he may be the "ticket" back to the island. I ran his name through an anagram solver to see if any clues would come up. So far, I saw BOATMAN and BOATMEN. One interesting result is "WHAT BAD BOATMEN".


it does seem like he is a Charron-like character, some sort of sinister ferryman... that anagram is definitely pretty interesting. creeeeepy.

I've just realised that an anagram of SANTA ROSA is SATAN SOAR. Could be coincidence, but it ties into the underworld theme. Plus, didn't the writers say the heiroglyphics on the swan hatch countdown timer meant "Underworld"?

I've just realised that an anagram of SANTA ROSA is SATAN SOAR. Could be coincidence, but it ties into the underworld theme. Plus, didn't the writers say the heiroglyphics on the swan hatch countdown timer meant "Underworld"?

yes, sir.


I just posted in another thread that the origin of the Egyptian Underworld might come from an island which was submerged in the beginning of time. The submerged Island, called Island of Trampling, became a TOMB for the divine creatures that inhabited it. Therefore it became the generic Underworld where souls go.
Also, the catastrophe that ended up with the island's destruction or sinking is associated with 'The EYE of Horus'. Coincidentially, Horus lost an eye in a fight with Set (familiar?).
Some egyptian researchers make a connection between the Underworld and the word 'EYE'. It happens that Osiris, father or Horus, is the Ruler of the Underworld and his original hyeroglypth shows an eye and a throne.
Now, doesn't Carlton Cuse like to call the Island, EYE-LAND?

Following this line of thinking, what Carlton might mean is that the Island is the UNDERWORLD (EYE) LAND.



This is the place where I'm getting all this info:

http://books.google.com/books?id=ioXXW15VWGgC&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=island+of+trampling&source=web&ots=EOIv_WqGb-&sig=pnCPrJ9aj0rvDi-vvITogA1CHwI#PPA217,M1

Great work, Fierro. Can you point us to the thread you mentioned?

Cuse has indeed used that emphasis when talking about the 'island'. The first shot we see in Lost is of Jack's eye. Perhaps a simple visual metaphor for what this place is. The same with the eye(s) in Jacob's shed/hut/shack/cell.

Great work, Fierro. Can you point us to the thread you mentioned?

Cuse has indeed used that emphasis when talking about the 'island'. The first shot we see in Lost is of Jack's eye. Perhaps a simple visual metaphor for what this place is. The same with the eye(s) in Jacob's shed/hut/shack/cell.

No problem!

http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=87259&page=2

The thread deals with The Temple. It caught my attention because I had just read that 'The Halls of Records' is supposedly located in an underground temple in Egypt.
And what are these 'halls of records'? Well, it is said to be a library full of knowledge about anything you can think of. It's been compiled by very advanced ancient civilizations. Amongst the many myths that surround them, there's one that says that there are very powerful artifacts buried down there, like a time machine, for example.
It is a very interesting read.
It is believed that there are actually 3 halls of records. One of them is located on a very peculiar and relevant place, for us, a mysterious 'island'.
The island is called Poseidia, and it is said to be part of, hold on to your chair, Atlantis.

And, like I said in the other thread, if such library is hidden on the island, that could be a very good reason why people would want to get their dirty hands on it. Hence, the need of some kind of Knights Templar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar) order to protect it, aka. The Others/Hostiles.


Could Ben's magic box be housed inside the Temple? Could it be one of these mythical and powerful ancient artifacts?

In truth they never will find a Hall of Records, as that is a term referencing the frequency grids that create our reality, nothing more and accessed until consciousness evolves at the end of the program. Our reality the Masonic (mother sound) Program began in the Middle East (Giza plateau) and so it shall return at the end of linear time.
The object of finding any object, the Holy Grail (http://www.crystalinks.com/holygrail.html), the Ark of the Covenant (http://www.crystalinks.com/ark.html), the Akashic Records (http://www.crystalinks.com/akashicrecords.html), Shambhala (http://www.crystalinks.com/shambhala.html), Atlantis (http://www.crystalinks.com/atlantis.html), etc. is about the quest to find sacred knowledge, the keys that will unlock the truth about reality - who are you? why are you here? what is your soul's purpose? The answer: We exist in a holographic projection, a biogenetic experiment in linear time and emotion, created by electromagnetic grids through which we virtually experience. The program will soon end having come full circle in the cycles of time. It's about knowledge.





Also, check this out:


One of the problems with the Sphinx is that the right shoulder, the area marked by the cross, keeps cracking. The Egyptians have been trying to patch it to keep it together. The head is also falling off. Thoth told me that the head will fall off and that, in the neck, there will be found a large golden sphere, which is a time capsule. The Egyptians are doing everything they can to keep the head and right shoulder from falling off. Thoth also told him that everything was set up at a higher level so that the Halls of Records would be discovered before the end of 1999. Thoth said 148 sets of three people would try to enter the Halls of Records, until one of these sets, coming from the West, would open the doorway by making a sound with their voice. Inside there would be a spiral staircase going into an underground room. The Japanese have the technical ability to see this room clearly enough with instruments to detect a clay pot in the corner.
There are three channels that go out from this room. If you know how to read it, the clay pot will tell you where to go and what to do. Thoth said that the three people from the West would enter and go down the right channel. If you go down the wrong channel, or if you are not the right group of people, you will die- a real "Indiana Jones"- type scene. If you are one of the chosen three people you can walk right in without any problem.
These three people eventually will come down a long stone hallway lit on its own with no lights; that is, the air itself would be luminous. High up on the left side of the wall would be etched forty-eight sacred geometry drawings. These are the illustrations of the chromosomes of Christ-consciousness-- The first one being the 'flower of life'.
At the end of the hallway there is a slight right hand turn into a large room. Sitting on the raised shelves of this room is physical evidence of the existence of civilization on this planet for the last five and a half million years.
At the front of the room is a stone. At the top of the stone these three people would find something like a photograph, an image of themselves. Beneath the images in the photograph they would find their names- not necessarily the names they were given at birth, but their true names. Underneath the names would be a date, which would be that actual day. Thoth said that each of these three people will be allowed to remove one of these objects and take it out.


Does Jacob's list have anything to do with that?
100%
I just remember something that might give some support to the theory that, somehow, the powers of the island could extend to the outside world....
Remember when Ben told Juliet that Jacob in person would take care of Rachel's cancer?
Basically, what he implied was that Jacob could leave the island and cure her by being close to her. Of course, we don't know if he was lying or if, by that time, he had already captured Jacob within the circle of ash.
But it seems possible then that special people can take some of the island's powers with them and use them off the island.
So if Abaddon is an Island Entity, it is not that crazy to think that he could be responsible for creating vivid hallucinations in the real world, also. And just like Jacob, who can physically cure something as serious as cancer, perhaps his hallucinations can be as physically real as they seem to be on the island. By this I mean that they can be experienced by many people at the same time. Like Charlie, for instance.

I mean, we know that Jack saw his dead father on the island, right? That was possible the first hallucination of the show. But at that time, we didn't have any confirmation about these visions being on just one person's head or a collective thing. I think that so far, Kate's Black Horse seems to be the only case of a vision being seen and touched by more than one person at a time. Am I right? But well, then we have Yemi creating a real fire in Ecko's tent...
Anyways, In the Beginning of the End, we learn that Hurley could see Christian also, a person to whom he has no ties or relationships. So these hallucinations can be seen by people who don't even have a connection to the person being 'reproduced' in the vision.

Now, what Island entity do we know who is capable of producing such things?

Jacob, perhaps?

If, according to this theory, Smokie is just a dog and Jacob is the master, what if Abaddon is actually Jacob?



Now, could it be possible that, after the Oceanic 6's rescue, Locke managed to set Jacob free?

And now he wants/needs those people back to his island for some reason?

I've always thought that Ben actually lied to The Others about who was or who wasn't on Jacob's list. So it's possible that some or maybe all of the Oceanic 06 were actually on the infamous list.
I have even taken this idea further in this (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=86093) thread, stating that Jack could actually be the person supposed to take over Ben's role. Everything seems to indicate that Locke would be that person, but again, it could just be misdirection on TPTB's part.
For example, just like Ben, Jack was the first one to see a dear dead person on the island. Wasn't that a sign that Richard interpreted as Ben's being special?
Then he was chosen as leader of the Others, under Jacob's power, of course.

Now, if this is true, and Jack is destined to become the new leader of the 'others' (who the losties will turn to), Abaddon is definetely gonna pay Jack a visit, as he did with Hurley, to mess up with his mind, until he decides he/they have to go back.
And judging by last season' s finale, it is very probably that Jack's downward spiral was the result of Abaddon's mind manipulations.
By the way, I made another thread here (http://thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=87299), contemplating this idea:

Remember Jack's comment about his father being still alive?

Well, doesn't that remind you of Hurley seeing Charlie off the island?????

Like I said in that thread, Charlie is to Hurley as Christian is to Jack. That is the way Abaddon/Jacob/The Island is manipulating Jack in order to deliever messages so he can finally change his mind and WANT to come back to the island.
100%
Just a couple of more thoughts:


Remember Ben's comment 'Every LIVING person on this island will be killed.'?

At that time, lots of people, found it, of course, pretty weird and redundant. After all, what kind of NON LIVING person could inhabit the island?

Well, how about...GHOSTS? Of course, Ben knows the real nature of the island as an afterlife place and thats' why that sounded natural to him. But I think it was more of a very subtle clue from TPTB...


Another nice coincidence....

'He walks amongst us, but he is not one of us'. Jack's tattoo might have several layers of interpretation. In this case, it could mean that Jack is a living person walking in the land of the DEAD.

Fierro - I'm totally digging your idea and everyone's contributions!

I ran an anagram generator on Mathhew Abaddon as soon as the epi was over, and I noticed the "BOATMAN" ones, but it didn't ring any bells until I started reading about the River Styx, and the name of the "boatman" who ferry's newly dead souls from the banks of the living to the Underworld. Amazing. And incredibly interesting. I brought this up in another thread (one of yours I think, Fierro), and I mentioned how TPTB have said all along that the Losties are not in Purgatory. OK, I can agree with that... but what if they have *FOUND* Purgatory?? That would mean that Purgatory/Underworld is a real place that the Losties kind of accidentally stumbled onto. (OK - so the plane crash was more than a stumble, LOL).

But the more I think about it... it all makes sense (at least in my head..LOL). DHARMA was known to be conducting electromagnetic as well as parapsychology-based research and experiments on the Island. Perhaps DHARMA came upon the realization that the intense electromagnetic properties as well as the presence of strong parapsychological forces was because the Island literally is the doorway to the Underworld? The Incident could have been caused when DHARMA accidentally opened this door temporarily, and realizing what they had done, used the Swan station as a band-aid to patch the hole they put in the door.

I came across a very interesting painting of the River Styx boatman on his ferry, with an image of Cerebus on the opposite side; guarding the doorway to Hades:

http://www.mythweb.com/encyc/gallery/styx_c.html

Maybe Jacob looks to be so powerful in our eyes, because he has the ability to still influence events on both sides of the plane of existence: the living and the dead. His statement to Locke ("Help Me") could have been a plea to simply get him off of the plane of our existence so that his soul could return to the Underworld.

It's kind of a bad/funny analogy, but maybe there is a 'Ghostbusters' type technology working here? Jacob could have been out venturing about the Island (outside of his normal realm), and Ben actually discovered and employed a means to "detain" him in our plane, to interrogate him and teach him the secrets of the Island. Jacob may have been dead for centuries, and maybe his fear/hate of technology comes from not being able to understand the means Ben is using to keep him detained on the plane of existence?

As far as Abaddon, I get the sneaking suspicion that he is playing the role of the "boatman" on the River Styx. He is the ferryman that will ultimately be able to take the Losties back to the Island where they should be. I think his question to Hurley ("Are they still alive?") was a reference to the 6 who left the Island. He is trying to bring them back to the Island where they should be, just because they "accidentally" discovered the Island doesn't give them the right to leave.

Also worth noting is that in Greek mythology (where this talk of the Boatman and Cerebus comes from), it was common for the living to place 2 gold coins over the eyes of the dead as a means for them to pay the "fare" to the boatman when crossing into the Underworld. Maybe this explains the shows fixation with eyes?

With Abaddon playing the role of the boatman, Smoky playing the role of Cerebus, and the glyphs on the hatch timer translating to "Underworld", I think this all fits together great. Maybe Smoky was so active and loud the first couple of nights the Losties were on the Island because it suddenly sensed the arrival of a large number of souls to the Island (the dead passengers), but also sensed other strange/unfamiliar presences as well (the survivors). He has always been described as a "security system" for the Island.

This is a lot of info coming from all different areas of my head, so I'm going to stop for now; but I'd love to know what you all think. I think Fierro is on the right track here...

Did no one see the black, kind of smoky shadow on the door when Abbadon left? It is very clear, especially in slo-mo. It is also very creepy. Could it be possible that Abbadon is a manifestation of the smoke monster? That is the impression my family and I got. It would fit with what Hurley said in the gym scene with Jack about "it" wanting them back and doing anything it could to get them back. It would mean Smokey can get off the island, or at least appear to people who have been on the island. It is all very fascinating. Seems the show is getting more supernatural in nature. Love it.

hey fierro !

i posted this over at general theories, thought i'd post it here too

my thinking about Abbadon is that he is one of the others. I think he may have been one of the slaves that arrived on the Black Rock and has lived on the Island ever since except for business trips to the world (just like alpert who i also suspect arrived on the black rock)

when the freighter people took over the island the remaining others probably had to go into hiding and Abbadon happened to be off island at that point - so he was stuck, unable to go back.

he targets hurley, knowing that they had been on the island, to try and find out information about what happened to his people and organize an attempt to get back.

I think Abbadon is what the Redemption song clue is about


Old pirates, yes, they rob I;
Sold I to the merchant ships,
Minutes after they took I
From the bottomless pit.
But my hand was made strong
By the 'and of the Almighty.
We forward in this generation
Triumphantly.
Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfil de book.

Won't you help to sing
These songs of freedom? -
'Cause all I ever have:
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs;
Redemption songs.even a reference to an 'abyss' in there!
jiving with the meaning of the name abbadon - "Angel of the Abyss"

ANATHEMA


Wans't this how the obituary read.The letters were scrammbled and know one knew who they belonged to. I think it is Adabbon in the coffin. Someone should check the obit against this anagram.

Okay so I'm getting on board with the Underworld theory. A lot of imagery and symbols seem to fit. I'm a bit confused about how living beings can survive in an underworld. And the idea of what happens to a soul when it dies while already residing in an underworld.

This also brings up the issue of the blatant Protestant/Catholic tropes of the show. If our Losties are in an Egyptian underworld of sorts, how does the presence of these Christian elements (Eko's stick, Claire and Aaron being baptized, crosses and prayers on and over graves, etc.) affect the characters and/or the wholly other ideological underworld? If they are actually in such a place.

In Revelations, Abbadon held the keys to Satan's prison.
Appearantly, everyone just kind of glossed over this, but I think it's important and insightful.

Revelation 20 describes Abaddon as an angel who holds the keys to the Abyss. He captures the Devil and casts him into this abyss for 1000 years.

An Abyss is a bottomless pit, often the deepest part of the ocean floor. So if Abaddon threw the Devil into the sea...wherever he threw him might then become known as the Devil's Sea.

The Devil's Sea is an area in the Pacific where pop culture notes ships and planes disappear under strange circumstances. Some claim that it is on the agonic line, where magnetic north is equal to geographic north. According to the ever-reliable wikipedia, "Among the phneomena reported in the Devil's Sea are the loss of ships and planes, numerous ghost ships, unidentfied craft and USOs, missing time, and is even said to explain the disappearance of Amelia Earhart." Coincidentally (likely not) there is an elderly lady named Amelia on the island.

Okay so I'm getting on board with the Underworld theory. A lot of imagery and symbols seem to fit. I'm a bit confused about how living beings can survive in an underworld. And the idea of what happens to a soul when it dies while already residing in an underworld.

This also brings up the issue of the blatant Protestant/Catholic tropes of the show. If our Losties are in an Egyptian underworld of sorts, how does the presence of these Christian elements (Eko's stick, Claire and Aaron being baptized, crosses and prayers on and over graves, etc.) affect the characters and/or the wholly other ideological underworld? If they are actually in such a place.
There are a couple of tales about living people going to the underworld and even getting out. Greek, Celtic, etc. They all have their folkore regarding this issue.
What I am trying to say with this theory is that Dharma is the joining point between the scientific part of the tale and the mystical/legend-like part of it.
From a scientific point of view, they could just say that the island exists in a different dimension. What ancient cultures used to describe as the UNDERWORLD, could be called 'parallel universe, different dimension, etc, in modern times.
It is not jsut the Egyptian Underworld. It is THE UNDERWORLD. It doesn't matter what religion you practice.

APOLLYON, or, as it is literally in the margin of the AV of Revelation 9:11, "a destoyer," is the rendering of the Hebrew word Abaddon, "the angel of the bottomless pit."