When Jack is leaving the gym Hurley says (paraphrase) " it wants us to come back" and " it'll do anything to get us back" . What is the "it"? Is he referring to the island?

I assume "it" is the Island.

Yeah, me too. I think 'it' is the island.

Most definitely, "it" is the Island.

Most definitely, "it" is the Island.

+1
And more so Jacob who is able to manifest charlie, and maybe manifest things in the lives of the other "Oceanic 6" ?

This IMO, was the most intriguing statement of the episode (and there were a lot to choose from!!) I found it curious that he didn't say "Jacob wants us to come back", or something to that effect... he specifically said that "it" wants them to come back, and that "it" would do whatever it took for that to happen.

So the question is: What the hell is "it"??? It definitely gave me the impression that this consciousness that the Island seems to exhibit is "alien" in some fashion... and I don't mean alien like, visitors from another world or anything necessarily; but more along the lines of something strange and foreign, yet sentient.

Seeing Charlie appear to Hurley was absolutely amazing... it makes me wonder that if some small part of the Island's "consciousness" if you will - was somehow able to leave the Island when the Oceanic Six left the Island.

I have seen other suggestions that maybe Jack, Hurley, Kate, and the other yet-to-be-named members of the Oceanic Six were in essence banished from the Garden of Eden. This seems perfectly plausible, and would fit perfectly with why Locke (a man of faith) would be content to spend eternity in what is essentially paradise, while Jack (a man of science) refused to buy into it all and demanded to return home. If they stay, they live forever in this "Garden" (think about Richard Alpert and his non-aging here), but if they leave, they remain mortal and are eventually doomed to perish.

This makes the Oceanic lawyer's (who I believe to be something from the Island) cryptic statement even more interesting, when he asked Hurley "Are they still alive?" Even stranger is if the Island was willing to let them leave, why does it now want them back so badly?? Another question is obviously - What were the terms of the Oceanic 6's agreement with (what I think will turn out to be) the Island that allowed them to leave, but to never speak of any of it? It obviously is something that is driving Hurley to near insanity, and judging by the end of TTLG it eventually envelopes Jack as well. But even with all these other questions I presented (which I think are definitely interconnected) the most burning one remains:

What exactly is "it", and why does "it" want them back so badly after allowing them to leave?

I think it is the island, and by island I'm refering to jacob/smokey/whatever the hell is controlling everything, the overall presence it has. I think it needs them to come back to save it and everyone.

I'm thinking it's the island too...and if that means the people who are controlling things then so be it.

I wonder if anyone who wants to leave can, but most people who come to "understand" the island don't want to. So maybe Jack and the Oceanic 6 were so desparate to leave they never came to understand the island until after they were back and had time to process things. It seems pretty clear they feel they made a mistake. And I'm sure Kate is probably in denial and deep down feels the same as Hurley and Jack. The question is, after the season finale and Jack's maps all over the place and flying all the time to try to get back...why can't he? If the island wants them back so bad and Jack wants to go so bad why can't he? Maybe all six have to be on the same page and go together at the same time?

i think you're right that "it" is the island, but i think that the guy who showed up at Hurley's is representative of whoever doesnt want them to return. he wants them to shut up. i think that charlie represents the island in that he wants them to return to save the rest left on the island. i think the ones left behind are being held there by whoever was on the freighter and that they are "bad" and the island is "good" and wants them tobe safe. ultimately the 6 will probably find a way to return to get rid of the bad ones and the survivors can decide whetherto stay or return to civilization. stay meaning people like hurley and jack who are not doing well back home. remember in the season 3 finale when ben aske jack if he just couldn't wait to get back to work and asked what he had to go home to? well, bearded jack didn't look like he was doing to well.

Excellent posts. We have only seen two flash fowards of the oceanic 6. Hurley and Jack's lives were both going to hell. Someone that left with them had already died after getting back. We dont know who it is but Jack seemed more determined to get back to the Island after finding out one of the survivors had died. I bet the longer they decide to stay away from the Island more of the Oceanic 6 die

The thing that struck me about Charlie's appearance after Abbadon's was the theme of good and evil. Abbadon intimidated Hurley and exploited his fear and weakness. While Charlie appealed to his better instincts his courage and gentley told him the truth about his situation.Charlie gentley yet forcefully told Hurley he need to go back to the island. Whether it was Charlie or an apparition of the island, the forces of the island knew it was what he needed to see. The apparition gave the episode it's one note of hope, Hurley was nudged in the direction of returning to the island. My question is what sort of power does the island have in the outside world? Is it only over people who have been to the outside world? Or could it effect events for people who haven't been to the island?

I had mentioned this very thing in a previous thread, but it fell off, so I'll put it here. After watching last night's episode again, who's to say that the island isn't trying to lure Jack and Hurley back to the island by haunting them in some way.

My assumption has always been that it was a mistake to leave the island in terms of something bad happening to the Oceanic 6 after leaving, but after watching TBOTE I noticed some things. For one, when Charlie is visiting Hurley at the mental hospital, Charlie says to Hurley:

CHARLIE: You know what you have to do. You're hiding from it.

I didn't really think much of that comment, but clearly Charlie is planting a seed in Hurley's mind that he needs to go back. He's trying to get past Hurley's defenses with the words "They need you." It's just after this conversation that Hurley starts to have doubts about them leaving the island, and it comes up with Jack at the basketball court.

The second scene between Jack and Hurley is really interesting to me:

HURLEY: I don't think we did the right thing, Jack. I think it wants us to come back . . .
JACK: Hurley --
HURLEY: . . . and it's going to do everything it can to ---
JACK: We're never going back!

I didn't pick up on Hurley's comment the first time I watched it, but I caught it the second time: "It's going to do everything it can" to what? To get Jack and Hurley back on the island? To get all of them back? Could the "it" be haunting both Jack and Hurley, planting seeds of doubt about their decisions to leave until they want nothing more than to return. For Hurley, it's already happening in TBOTE; Charlie is the catalyst. Hurley IS the mess that Jack also becomes later.

I'm wondering if the island, or whatever "it" is, is doing whatever it has to do to Jack and Hurley off island to get them to go back. For Hurley, it's driving him to madness - to a point where he finally realizes that they were not suppose to leave, and they have to go back, which is what the island wanted all along. Jack is not at that point yet in last night's episode. However, he is clearly at that point in TTLG.

I recall that Ben desperately tried to keep Jack from leaving on the sub and so did Locke. There is constantly a mention of "work to do" and a purpose for everyone. So perhaps leaving the island isn't necessarily a mistake in terms of going home, but it's a mistake because the island had a specific purpose for the Losties (or very specific people), and once they left, it was imperative to get them back.

Excellent posts. We have only seen two flash fowards of the oceanic 6. Hurley and Jack's lives were both going to hell. Someone that left with them had already died after getting back. We dont know who it is but Jack seemed more determined to get back to the Island after finding out one of the survivors had died. I bet the longer they decide to stay away from the Island more of the Oceanic 6 die


Nice. Yeah, surely that coffin mystery will come centre-stage eventually. Now we know it's likely one of the Oceanic 6.

Nice. Yeah, surely that coffin mystery will come centre-stage eventually. Now we know it's likely one of the Oceanic 6.
i disagree that it's one of the oceanic 6. if it was, why would kate's reaction to jack telling her about the funeral be the way that it was. she had absolutely no interest. and when the funeral director asked jack if he was a friend or family of the deceased, he said neither. how could one of the 6 not be a friend. he doesn't have to hide the fact from the funeral director. he didn't know he was jack shepard. i think that the person in the coffin is someone involved with them getting off the island and keeping them from it......or maybe michael. why would kate or jack like him after what he did to them in the 2nd season finale. michael cannot be considered an oceanic 6.

i disagree that it's one of the oceanic 6. if it was, why would kate's reaction to jack telling her about the funeral be the way that it was. she had absolutely no interest. and when the funeral director asked jack if he was a friend or family of the deceased, he said neither. how could one of the 6 not be a friend. he doesn't have to hide the fact from the funeral director. he didn't know he was jack shepard. i think that the person in the coffin is someone involved with them getting off the island and keeping them from it......or maybe michael. why would kate or jack like him after what he did to them in the 2nd season finale. michael cannot be considered an oceanic 6.


Me too. Sorry, I was high when I wrote that. What was I thinking?:confused:

Um, maybe its Jeremy Bentham after all, whoever that might be.

This is all particularly interesting in light of the conversation between Jack and Ben in the "missing pieces" clip where they are playing chess.
Supposedly you can't leave if the island doesn't want you to, yet they manage to leave and now it wants them back? I can't wait to see where this is all leading!

This is all particularly interesting in light of the conversation between Jack and Ben in the "missing pieces" clip where they are playing chess.
Supposedly you can't leave if the island doesn't want you to, yet they manage to leave and now it wants them back? I can't wait to see where this is all leading!

I'm wondering if that's part of what's driving Hurley and Jack to go off the deep end. They were not suppose to leave and now the island is haunting them to bring them back. Hurley is seeing Charlie, and maybe Jack is seeing his father, which is why he mentions him in TTLG. When Hurley said "It wants us back and it will do whatever it has to do" (paraphrasing), I thought that was a HUGE piece of information. It makes me change my mind that leaving the island was a mistake to thinking that the island wants them back, and those who stayed behind are now in trouble. Just a theory.

I'm on board with this haunting thing. Good thought...I cant wait to find out who another of the Oceanic 6 are and see how there life is post-island...

"And it's going to do everything it can to bring us back". Hurley says that to Jack during the Basketball scene. Is he talking about the Island? And if so, does that mean Vision Charlie was the Island?

Hurley said "HE didn't want us lo leave" instead of it, didn't he?

Nope. It was definitely "it".

For now I'm gearing towards the idea it's the Island itself. Or its will.

Charlie arrived in the garden of Santa Rosa accompanied by the Swan Hatch magnet sound.

But as I heard it again exerting it's 'draw-you-to-me' influence during the basket ball scene... make of it what you will.

I think he meant the island, yeah.

I'm getting the feeling that in between TBOTE and TTLG's flashforwards, Hurley either makes it back to the Island, or something terrible happens to him. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time TTLG's FF happens, only Jack and Kate are left on the main land, while the other 4 of the 6 have been sent/forced/willed back.

And of course, Jack being his stubborn self, missed the opportunity the other 4 had to go back, and is now severely regretting it. It really seems that Hurley is completely ready to go back at the drop of a hat.

Man I have to watch it again, but my impression is that Hugo said it twice during the basketball scene, the first time it sounded like he said he, the second it sounded like it. I am confused.

He said "it." I thought it was the most puzzling line of the entire epi. The island is sentinent?

From the Island action in TBOTE, it certainly seems as though Hurley is 'special'. He can see the cabin, he can see Jacob and Christian, and the cabin follows him around. So it makes sense that he is going to learn more about the island/Jacob this season and might therefore refer to the Island as sentient.

And it's also interesting that Jack was not surprised at Hurley's use of the word IT. so Jack must know something about the Island's powers by now as well.

And it's also interesting that Jack was not surprised at Hurley's use of the word IT. so Jack must know something about the Island's powers by now as well.

Agree. What I'd like to know is how Jack's understanding of 'It' came to be, considering how strongly agreed he argued against such a thing possible to Locke and/or Ben (although of the top of my head, I can't remember when that happened).

I'm getting the feeling that in between TBOTE and TTLG's flashforwards, Hurley either makes it back to the Island, or something terrible happens to him. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time TTLG's FF happens, only Jack and Kate are left on the main land, while the other 4 of the 6 have been sent/forced/willed back.

And of course, Jack being his stubborn self, missed the opportunity the other 4 had to go back, and is now severely regretting it. It really seems that Hurley is completely ready to go back at the drop of a hat.
Nice theory. It would certainly make it all the more interesting if 4 of the six returned to the Island.

But here is another riddle to ponder, why does kate seem so happy and at ease?

Just a few thoughts...

Up to this point, we're all assuming that the Oceanic 6 are all friendly toward each other and get along. This may not necessarily be the case. We don't know exactly who got off the island, but judging by Hurley's words about wishing he hadn't gone with Locke, if by some chance Locke got off the island, well, that doesn't really sound friendly. And if there's any chance at all that Locke is the one in the coffin at the end of last season, Kate might not be so prone to going to that funeral. I know all those details are just loose speculation, but I think we need to leave the door open for the possibilities that maybe not all the O6 got off the island the best of friends. Even Jack's visit to Hurley, while not UN-friendly, was more of a check up on the status of the secret than real concern for Hurley's plight.

And as far as Kate being at ease, while I agree she looks great, I don't think she necessarily looks happy.

Just a few thoughts...

Up to this point, we're all assuming that the Oceanic 6 are all friendly toward each other and get along. This may not necessarily be the case. We don't know exactly who got off the island, but judging by Hurley's words about wishing he hadn't gone with Locke, if by some chance Locke got off the island, well, that doesn't really sound friendly. And if there's any chance at all that Locke is the one in the coffin at the end of last season, Kate might not be so prone to going to that funeral. I know all those details are just loose speculation, but I think we need to leave the door open for the possibilities that maybe not all the O6 got off the island the best of friends. Even Jack's visit to Hurley, while not UN-friendly, was more of a check up on the status of the secret than real concern for Hurley's plight.

And as far as Kate being at ease, while I agree she looks great, I don't think she necessarily looks happy.


I can agree with this, seeing as how there isn't any evidence either way it's certainly worth entertaining. I could definitely see how some of the O6 may be on bad terms or not even acknowledge the other members any longer...depending on how things play out with their return home. For some reason I can totally see Sawyer coming back, cutting ties with the other 5 members, and completely living off his fame (and maybe fortune?) His comment to Kate was especially interesting: "Same thing I'm always doing Kate....survivin'..." In his eyes, maybe coming back to civilization he uses his fame to score the women (totally Sawyer), and to make money...that would definitely fall into the "surviving" category in the mind of a con man. :) Who's to say that they don't have book deals or TV appearances they are getting paid exorborant amounts for just to tell what they *can* tell.

While it's definitely in the realm of speculation... I could totally see this as a Sawyer move.... but maybe that's the "old" Sawyer, and not the "new" Sawyer we've seen the last season or so :)

He said "it." I thought it was the most puzzling line of the entire epi. The island is sentient?

I thought it's been clear for agggggeeeesss that's the case :) But I guess it isn't visually obvious. Also, I think that Jacob is a seperate entity to the Island, but that Smokey is like a tool or weapon of the Island, because Locke called it the Eye of the Island, so I don't think it's an entity onto itself.

BTW, sorry my thread had to be merged in here, I didn't see this topic about it :(

Pretty sure Hurley was reffering to the island yeah, but also that Abbaddon represented the people who wants the island, after all we know 6 of our people got home, we know nothing about these freighter people, for all we know they never made it off, and so the secret of the island is stuck with our oceanic 6.

So abbadon wants to get back and they know the ONE thing that would make one of the oceanic 6 to break their silence: Guilt.

They left almost 40 people behind, the first thing most rescue victims in their situation would say is "You gotta get back and save the rest!" but these Oceanic 6 are strangly silent about the rest of their crewmates, when confronted they probably acted evasive and lied badly.


It gives the people who wants the island a good emotional eargument to try to break one of the 6, Hurley must have seemed like a nice target concidering his meltdown.



One last thing: Im THROUGH considering dead people the manifestation of ANYTHING.
It fooled me all thru 3 seasons but no more, the dead ppl we see are all actually the people they seem to be, but comunicating from beyond the veil.
All expet Yemi, i dont know what he was, but i dont think he or anyone else was Smokey.


-Exodus

Has anyone thought that Hurley somehow makes it back to the island? When Jack comes to visit, Hurley says "I think it wants us to come back". Jack's reply is "We're never going back!"
What if Hurley makes it back...causing Jack to go into a deep depression that we see at the end of S3.

My first thought was the island. But could it be Smokey? Who knows what we will see Smokey do before they get off the island. But my guess for now is the island ... seems Hurley now feels like Locke - that the island is alive. :biggrin:

I thought it was obvious they were talking about the island.

I think it is the island as well. I also think that the coffin and the obit happen much later in tthe future than when Jack meets with Hurley.

Jacob asked Locke to help him. Perhaps the one or ones who were destined to help Jacob left the island before they helped him, forcing the island or Jacob to call for their return?

I'm just confused that if the Island will do anything to get them back (the Oceanic 6), why does Jack get on planes EVERY weekend to hope for a crash and way back to the Island. If the Island knows all the details about space and time, wants them back, and Jack ultimately wants to go back, wouldn't he have been back much easier? Of course, this will all be filled in during the coming weeks (with only two flash fowards, a lot has to still happen for any clarity whatsoever).

There is no doubt that the Island wants them back...the problem is that apparently no one knows how to get there...except maybe Hurley who sees things...

And as far as Kate being at ease, while I agree she looks great, I don't think she necessarily looks happy.

I think she looks better when she's all filthy. Oh, and I wouldn't exactly call her demeanor in that scene "happy", either. She looked mostly concerned and a little bit frustrated that Jack was all messed up and called her out to the airport in the middle of the night for no good reason.

I'm equally intrigued about the part where the Charlie apparitions says to Hugo "You know what you have to do". What? What does Hurley have to do? Something in particular to get back?

What if you have to die to get to the island, and what if that coffin looked all distorted and short because it's a wide coffin that contained Hurley? And what if Jack was attempting suicide not to end it all but to get back to the island too?

Gosh my head is spinning, what if the losties are no more real than ghost charlie or ghost Christian, they just never realized it? And who's to say ghost charlie and ghost christian aren't real too just not the way we concieve real? uggggghhhhhhh

Yeah I know I'm just thinking out loud, going off

I'm equally intrigued about the part where the Charlie apparitions says to Hugo "You know what you have to do". What? What does Hurley have to do? Something in particular to get back?

What if you have to die to get to the island, and what if that coffin looked all distorted and short because it's a wide coffin that contained Hurley? And what if Jack was attempting suicide not to end it all but to get back to the island too?

Gosh my head is spinning, what if the losties are no more real than ghost charlie or ghost Christian, they just never realized it? And who's to say ghost charlie and ghost christian aren't real too just not the way we concieve real? uggggghhhhhhh

Yeah I know I'm just thinking out loud, going offI think what Charlie meant was what Hurley has to do is go back to the island.

As for Hurley painting an igloo -- I liken that scene and moment to the one in Close Encounters of the Third Kind when Richard Dryfuss' character build's a scale version of Devil's Tower in his living room. The people who were "called" to Devil's Tower didn't know why they had those images stuck in their head -- drawing and paintings of Devil's Tower.

As with Hurley he is having North Pole imagery stuck in his head and he only surmises that "IT wants us to go back."

Just a few thoughts...

Up to this point, we're all assuming that the Oceanic 6 are all friendly toward each other and get along. This may not necessarily be the case. We don't know exactly who got off the island, but judging by Hurley's words about wishing he hadn't gone with Locke, if by some chance Locke got off the island, well, that doesn't really sound friendly. And if there's any chance at all that Locke is the one in the coffin at the end of last season, Kate might not be so prone to going to that funeral. I know all those details are just loose speculation, but I think we need to leave the door open for the possibilities that maybe not all the O6 got off the island the best of friends. Even Jack's visit to Hurley, while not UN-friendly, was more of a check up on the status of the secret than real concern for Hurley's plight.

And as far as Kate being at ease, while I agree she looks great, I don't think she necessarily looks happy.
That is a totally awesome theory considering Locke doesn't want to leave the island. maybe he was forced to leave creating some kind of bad vibe between jack and kate. it is so a possiblity he was in the coffin.