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View Full Version : The Portrayal of Sawyer - Has he changed?


tolloli
02-01-2008, 01:54 AM
Just to throw it out there. I wonder if Sawyer's emotional growth will be followed by his death just like Shannon, Ana-Lucia, Boone, etc...

Any thoughts?

LadyJ27
02-01-2008, 01:58 AM
To do so would anger a lot of fans and potentially alienate a lot of viewers.
I think Sawyer's fate looks good for the time being.
Unlike many characters that have bit the dust after finding redemption, I feel Sawyer's story is just beginning.
I theorize that he will die before the show's end, but not until the last season and probably in a heroic moment (much like Charlie), possibly in a bid to save Kate's life.
Just my opinion.

Eight
02-01-2008, 02:01 AM
Well, Sawyer got his revenge but he still has a lot of bad karma. I wouldn't say he's becoming a better person by any stretch especially since he just killed (defensless) Tom in cold blood.

lomeinie
02-01-2008, 02:47 AM
Sawyer really does puzzle me sometimes at how considerate and sensitive he can be when he wants.

Case in point in tonight's episode he offered to talk with Hurley tonight about Charlie if he needed someone to talk to. And there have been some other times in the past I saw evidence he has a heart underneath that tough guy con man exterior he presents to the world - such as the conversation he had with Jack's father in the bar.

Given what we know about Sawyer's past, I guess he acts like he doesn't give a rip about no one but himself most of the time because he's been hurt so bad.

Electromagnetic Anomoly
02-01-2008, 02:51 AM
Maybe since he killed the real Sawyer (Cooper), he feels like it's time to shed his skin of the Sawyer we know, since it was a vengeance thing.
But Sawyer will always be Sawyer.

Cuttler
02-01-2008, 02:56 AM
He’s probably spent more time with these people consecutively then anyone else in his adult life. Sawyer was not one to stay in one place for very long. Now he’s been with these people day in and day out for 3 months. That would undoubtly have an effect on him.

lomeinie
02-01-2008, 02:57 AM
Maybe since he killed the real Sawyer (Cooper), he feels like it's time to shed his skin of the Sawyer we know, since it was a vengeance thing. Oh I don't know if he's really shedding any skin because as I said there's evidence in the past of him having a heart. And he certainly sounded like himself when he told Kate he was doing what he was always doing by surviving.

But Sawyer will always be Sawyer.Yep, I wouldn't expect anything less.

Nocturna
02-01-2008, 03:00 AM
I think it has more to do with the efforts Hurley made in the previous season to make Sawyer part of the group, and how Hurley went out of his way for Sawyer. Maybe he just feels like he owes it to Hurley to repay that favor.

Eight
02-01-2008, 03:05 AM
I think it has more to do with the efforts Hurley made in the previous season to make Sawyer part of the group, and how Hurley went out of his way for Sawyer. Maybe he just feels like he owes it to Hurley to repay that favor.

Excellent! I was gonna post the same thing but you beat me to it. :biggrin:

The only thing I will add is that the major theme of the show is the blurriness between good and evil, light and dark. That is exemplified in every character on the show.

Flotsam
02-01-2008, 07:09 AM
Sawyer has changed since he killed Cooper.

I love that not once did he call Hurley a nickname in this episode. He repeatedly called him by his real name, "Hugo". It's evident now that Sawyer respects and loves Hurley. This is a welcome change, in my opinion.

Noeland
02-01-2008, 07:25 AM
He did call him "essay" right before walking away.

I know the spelling is wrong . . .

workingmom
02-01-2008, 09:05 AM
Sawyer was very kind to Hurley - "wanna talk about it? - Charlie." "Holler if you need me." He was kind of being the big brother he was to Karl on the trek back from Hydra Island. I guess he's found out it isn't so bad to reach out to people.

I also noticed Sawyer was the voice of reason among the confusion on the beach when Desmond arrived in the boat with the news, thinking they should let Jack know. Then I guess Sayid's observation that the boat people would be monitoring their radio transmissions won out. (And Hurley throwing the walkie into the sea.)

Chrysander
02-01-2008, 09:26 AM
Bang, let's not forget that only a few hours ago, Sawyer shot Tom, again for vengeance. Seems like that has just been swept away, Sawyer has calmed down again and seems to be in Nice Guy Mode. It is very odd, but then again Sawyer is very odd, and goes through very quick mood swings at times.

Lockefan
02-01-2008, 09:52 AM
I love Sawyer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It was such a sign of respect when he called Hurley "Hugo" in that moment, too. It was like, no sarcasm (which is so hard for Sawyer to drop the use of as a protection and his usual way of communicating with people, so that took EFFORT, baby), no chiding, just one human to another, one friend to another, do you want to talk about it?

I think Hurley got Sawyer's respect (though Sawyer would never admit this!) when he pulled that caring con on Sawyer to the tune that there was going to be a meeting about banishing Sawyer, so Sawyer had better try to win over some hearts and minds by actually being nice to people and doing some good things here and there. Even though Sawyer felt duped and irked about it when he found out, I think even more he respected Hurley for 1.) being able to con a con, and 2.) doing something very creative and outside-the-box to get Sawyer to realize that he needs the other LOSTIES and to be a part of their "society", and that he CAN be nice, it's okay, he can let his tough-guy guard down and be nice and might actually be rewarded for it. Hurley could never have been taken seriously or even listened to by Sawyer if he just walked up and said all that. So Hurley conned him. But it was a con that showed he cared. I think that won over Sawyer.

Also it didn't hurt that when Sawyer was out for blood because Hurley had taken some of his stuff, and he caught up to Hurley at the VW microbus (a.k.a., van, but I'm old enough to remember when the original VW vans like that were called "microbuses"), Hurley responded to Sawyer's accusatory approach with JOY at seeing that he was alive and okay, and with spontaneously throwing his arms around him and giving him a big ole bear hug!

I think, in short, that Sawyer has come to really care for Hurley and thus we got to the moment last night in which he called him "Hugo" and wanted to be there for him in his moment of grief.

So touching, moving and sweet.

Our Sawyer: one just never knows how that boy is going to act in any given situation, now does one?!

waltisfuture
02-01-2008, 10:01 AM
He did call him "essay" right before walking away.

I know the spelling is wrong . . .


I think this means brother or buddy .... something positive like that, so Sawyer was even taking it one step further than just calling him by his name. Loved this scene

COL_Richard
02-01-2008, 10:39 AM
I agree with the postings that Sawyer has changed since the strangling of lockes dad, the real TOm Sawyer. He has vindicated himself. His lifes torment and mission has come to fruition. he killed the man that took his parents away from him. This would of course be the pivotal moment for a whole personnal change. We has seen Sawyer transform slowly towards more of an integrated member of the group, rather than an outsider lookin in.

There has been several threads started regarding Sawyer calling him Hugo, but thats been taking place since the bet, the ping pong tournament. I agree with you (Lockefan) that largely this comes from Sawyer gaining respect for Hugo becasue Hugo sucessfully conned him, in the match which he hustled him, and with the whole fake " you better kiss up or youre out" vote thing. then of course, zooming in in the minibus and running over one of them others earned cool points too.

btw, esa, is an ethnic remark, but loosely it means home boy, buddy, compadre, along those lines

Since Jack has his head where the sun doesnt shine, Sawyer is the logical choice for a leader, and we have seen him take steps in that direction.

BlackLotus
02-03-2008, 08:42 AM
Sawyer seemed different in this episode - like he had changed.

trying to help Hurley and talk to him about Charlie's death showed a more sensitive side to him and i wondered if he has made peace with himself and offloaded some of his baggage now that he 'put and end' to the real Sawyer (Locke's dad) in 'The Brig' last season.

Are we seeing a new start for James ? or is it just the beginning of the end for him.....

Warne
02-03-2008, 08:48 AM
I don't really know what is happening to Sawyer - but I do know that the people who like Sawyer don't do it for his "emotional & sweet" side. But it might as well be the end of the "bad-***" Sawyer we've seen - LOST loves to evolve its characters. Just look at Shannon in the first episodes and then in the last ones before her death - I don't think she was even close to being the same person.

axpo23
02-03-2008, 09:10 AM
It definitely seemed there was a difference. I think it's always hard on a Lostie when another one dies, but I think he was realizing that Charlie died to help them leave. He was still a sarcastic dude in the finale. I hope he doesn't become too soft. :(

MiniMe
02-03-2008, 09:16 AM
Killing Cooper changed him and his portrayal. He hasn't been the same since that happened towards the end of last season.

Oggie
02-03-2008, 09:20 AM
Sawyer seemed different in this episode - like he had changed.

trying to help Hurley and talk to him about Charlie's death showed a more sensitive side to him and i wondered if he has made peace with himself and offloaded some of his baggage now that he 'put and end' to the real Sawyer (Locke's dad) in 'The Brig' last season.

Are we seeing a new start for James ? or is it just the beginning of the end for him.....

I wouldnt say yes at this point. What we are seeing here is James being himself, nothing more. This is no new leaf for Sawyer. He's done this in the past, remember him calling off the con when he saw the little kid? James does have a heart, has always had it, and will always have it. But he has a darker side too. Guess what... All people are like that to one degree or another. If you went thru everything that he's gone thru, stop and put yourself in his shoes. He's lost people he's loved, he knows that kinda pain. So he was trying to be there to help someone else in the same boat. Dont for a second think that James is no longer capable of screwing over Hurley if he has to,

I'm not saying that Sawyer is a bad person, but I'm also not saying he's a good person. Locke sees things in black and white, but that's not really true for human nature.

IfeelsoLOST
02-03-2008, 09:35 AM
Yes, Sawyer shot Tom in cold blood, but what did he say to him when he did it????
"That's for taking the kid off the boat". Does anyone watching LOST really have sympathy for the character Tom????
He also states "I didn't believe him", when Hugo calls him out for shooting him.
To me, Saywer has always been a character that acts upon his gut instincts. I hope that won't be changing anytime soon.
I do agree with the posting that his character is in danger of disappearing. Locke's too. Especially since the true con man, was the focus of their inner struggles. Now that that issue has been resolved.......hmmmmmm....

Murdock
02-03-2008, 10:20 AM
James (I will not call him Sawyer anymore since I think he exorcised those demons when he killed Cooper) has not been using many nicknames. I will have to go over the transcript to confirm it (episode 401 and the last couple of season 3). He has also been calling Kate just "Kate", instead of "Freckles" and things like that.

James has definitely changed. I wonder how it will play out. Either he will revert because of some kind of trauma, or we will go along with him as he discovers who he really is.

Maxum
02-03-2008, 10:28 AM
I liked how Sawyer treated Hurley in TBOTE. He was aware at how crushed Hurley was regarding the impact of Charlie's death (and Libby's a few weeks earlier). It was really nice to see Sawyer put someone first.

With regard to whether or not he has changed, sure he's changed, but I'm not sure if it's for better or worse. Sawyer has shown at times that he is capable of being sweet and kind, but at the same time, he has shown that he will turn on you in a heartbeat (Sun's assault, hoarding, etc). He's also got a really hot temper, which has resulted in three separate murders.

The jury is still out on Sawyer. I can't make a decision based on one episode, but I did like what I saw in that first episode. The problem with Sawyer is that we know it doesn't always last. I have to wait and see.

james sharkington
02-03-2008, 10:40 AM
To do so would anger a lot of fans and potentially alienate a lot of viewers.
I think Sawyer's fate looks good for the time being.
Unlike many characters that have bit the dust after finding redemption, I feel Sawyer's story is just beginning.
I theorize that he will die before the show's end, but not until the last season and probably in a heroic moment (much like Charlie), possibly in a bid to save Kate's life.
Just my opinion.

That is completley what I think. I dont see Sawyer deing this season, but I think he will in a heroic way in the last season.

1DocLover
02-03-2008, 10:53 AM
I don't like the character of Sawyer much, but I have to say that in this eppy. he surprised me, and I actually felt for him. I don't see him changing dramatically any time soon. It's going to take a lot for him to just undo a lifetime of being "Sawyer". And whether or not anyone felt for Tom or not, you don't just kill someone in cold blood, who had their hands up and who had also surrendered. And as far as "taking the kid", I would imagine that wasn't Tom's idea. He was taking orders from someone else....Ben, Jacob. And who is Tom to say no to them. He did that to stay alive. Yes, he was an "Other" who held them hostage, but he did have a sincere quality and I think they tried to show that. Sawyer was wrong in killing Tom and Cooper. That is going to eat at him for while, imo, before we see any real change in him.

And while I am really tired of the deaths on the show, and as much as I don't like Sawyer, I wouldn't like for him to die. He may be a creep, but he does try sometimes. He also has a daughter and Cassidy who loves him very much, even though she knows what he's about and what he did to her. She still loves him. So, if he does make it off the island somehow, he does have things and people to go back for. The "heroic death" scenario is nice, but it can also get old fast.

Väinämoinen
02-03-2008, 11:22 AM
It's going to take a lot for him to just undo a lifetime of being "Sawyer".Which has been, first and foremost, a lifetime devoted to finding and confronting the man that killed his parents. He really didn't get much satisfaction from the confrontation, and killing him put that satisfaction permanently out of reach. I'd expect him to feel seriously adrift right now.

And of course what he *really* wanted was to have his parents back. Even if he has discharged his anger, there's still the grief underneath.

But for me, his use of the name Hugo just reminded me that he's one of two people on the island who know what Hurley is really worth...

--Väi

lostlocke
02-03-2008, 11:48 AM
I think Sawyer has become much less abrasive. In the beginning all he did was fight and I am happy for one, that he isn't like that anymore. It would be annoying. He still is a bad boy, no denying that but he has made friends with the other losties and has fallen in love and both these things I think has made him less angry!

flyer61055
02-03-2008, 12:07 PM
I think Sawyer has changed in that for the first time in his life there are people he actually cares about in his life, the Losties being the closest thing to a family he's ever had. His immediate concern and need to warn Jack that the people on the boat might be dangerous showed that he was genuinely afraid for them and his scenes with Hurley were wonderful, but Sawyer's always had compassion in him, he just doesn't let it show very often.

I don't think he'll ever shed his "every man for himself" mantra though or lose the selfish instincts that have allowed him to survive for this long. Yeah, Sawyer has changed some, but as we just saw, the family he has come to care about didn't mean enough to him to fight for them, turning his back on Kate and Jack who have been the closest thing to real friends he's ever known showing us that his growth is still limited to what's best for Sawyer.

Kaz4596
02-03-2008, 12:16 PM
I also think Sawyer has changed since the events of 'The Brig'
I think killing Cooper has changed him, he has been searching for vengance his whole life and while I don't think killing Cooper has made him a different person it has certainly made him less angry.

I loved the scene when he tried to console Hurley, Sawyer and Charlie weren't close but they were friends to a certain extent and I think Sawyer was sad to hear of Charlie's death. I've always liked scenes between Sawyer and Hurley and I hope this is the start of a great friendship between them. More Sawyer and Hurley scenes please! :)

lostchild
02-03-2008, 12:52 PM
I don't think he'll ever shed his "every man for himself" mantra though or lose the selfish instincts that have allowed him to survive for this long. Yeah, Sawyer has changed some, but as we just saw, the family he has come to care about didn't mean enough to him to fight for them, turning his back on Kate and Jack who have been the closest thing to real friends he's ever known showing us that his growth is still limited to what's best for Sawyer.

In Sawyer's defence, TBOTE made it fairly clear that everyone is kind of living "every man for himself" right now, by splitting into two groups. (yes, I realize they're in "groups", but everyone's individual motivation is to protect themselves be it on or off island.)


Also, and a few folks have already mentioned this to a degree, in terms of Sawyer evolving or regressing back to old habits, is indeed human nature. I realize this is a tv show and viewers expect a certain amount of "characteristic" qualities always present and accounted for in specific characters. However, beyond the epic sci-fi hoopla, LOST is about people. Stories.....are about people. They are allowed to change and grow and regress and do something unexpected.

I think by flatlining these characters, LOST would end. I don't know about anyone else, but IMHO, these characters have to evolve (for good or bad) cause that's what people do. They may throw us for a loop, but sometimes the one person you think you know better than anyone else in the world, does that. it may take some getting used to, but then again, they're not changing at your schedule.

so, yes, Sawyer has been living on that island for practically 100 days, with a hot air balloon full of experiences that have undoubtedly changed him, even in a subtle way.

workingmom
02-03-2008, 12:53 PM
Sawyer's come a long way since they crashed, where in the beginning of Season 1 he was mainly just an aggravator and had his belligerence up around him like a wall. As several posters have observed, the Losties are the first real sense of family he's had, and Hurley has probably reached out to him the most (besides Kate). It was really sweet the way he tried to comfort Hurley. More and more Sawyer's finding it doesn't cost him to connect with people - much more than in the middle of Season 2 when he was all uncomfortable that everyone was glad he was back.
His big-brother talk with Hurley was a lot like his talk with Karl after they left the Hydra island. And Hurley's efforts to socialize him after he was back at the beach also helped. All of these took place before The Brig.
I disagree that it was the killing of Cooper that freed him. On the contrary, that is going to weigh heavy on him and I think it just made it easier for him to kill Tom without blinking for a moment. It's still eating him up (see Kate's nagging him in the S3 finale) and I think it will inform his actions as he comes to terms with the fact that getting rid of the original Sawyer didn't get rid of the Sawyer inside him.

Lee Adama
02-03-2008, 01:38 PM
Bang, let's not forget that only a few hours ago, Sawyer shot Tom, again for vengeance. I know this has been debated a lot. But I'm in the camp that thinks it was more than vengeance. Afterwards, Sawyer said he didn't believe Tom who had said he had given up. I think Sawyer was right about that.

I think Hurley got Sawyer's respect (though Sawyer would never admit this!) when he pulled that caring con on Sawyer This makes sense. I also think Sawyer responded to Hurley thinking of Sawyer as a leader. I think that made Sawyer feel better about himself and he appreciated Hurley doing that for him.

I think Sawyer has become much less abrasive. In the beginning all he did was fight and I am happy for one, that he isn't like that anymore. It would be annoying. He still is a bad boy, no denying that but he has made friends with the other losties and has fallen in love and both these things I think has made him less angry! I also think that just being in the plane crash brought out the anger in Sawyer. People get angry if their flight is diverted to another city or even just delayed. I can see how crashing would bring out extreme anger in a person.

I think Sawyer has changed in that for the first time in his life there are people he actually cares about in his life, the Losties being the closest thing to a family he's ever had. I agree. For the first time, Sawyer is in a society with good people. On the DVDs Holloway said that Sawyer is seeing that not everyone in the world is bad. I think Sawyer was so used to being around bad people, he had fogotten what it's like to be around kind, wholesome people such as Hurley.

Mr. Find
02-03-2008, 01:39 PM
Hands down, the funniest scene in many an episode was Sawyer leaning against the bus leisurely drinking something while Juliet was doing the digging.

That scene said it all.

deeannek
02-03-2008, 02:05 PM
I was thinking two things during the Sawyer Hurley conversation: 1. Wow that was nice! 2. How is Sawyer going to exploit this? Sawyer is my favorite but I am not convinced that he has changed. Part of this reasoning is the Sawyer promo that was shown Wednesday evening. It had Sawyer saying, " There is a new sheriff in town" and I believe that came from an epi where he betrayed Jack and Kate big time.

workingmom
02-03-2008, 02:20 PM
Hands down, the funniest scene in many an episode was Sawyer leaning against the bus leisurely drinking something while Juliet was doing the digging.

That scene said it all. :biggrin: The ant and the grasshopper.

I was thinking two things during the Sawyer Hurley conversation: 1. Wow that was nice! 2. How is Sawyer going to exploit this? Sawyer is my favorite but I am not convinced that he has changed. Part of this reasoning is the Sawyer promo that was shown Wednesday evening. It had Sawyer saying, " There is a new sheriff in town" and I believe that came from an epi where he betrayed Jack and Kate big time.
Here instead it was Locke who exploited Hurley and his grief about Charlie to join Locke's side. But I get what you mean about Sawyer - we've now been trained (as the Losties have) to expect an ulterior motive from him. I don't think there was in this case, though.

jane_eire
02-03-2008, 04:04 PM
What I want to know is why Sawyer's trying on an Irish accent.

Jack Sawyer
02-03-2008, 04:15 PM
To do so would anger a lot of fans and potentially alienate a lot of viewers.
I think Sawyer's fate looks good for the time being.
Unlike many characters that have bit the dust after finding redemption, I feel Sawyer's story is just beginning.
I theorize that he will die before the show's end, but not until the last season and probably in a heroic moment (much like Charlie), possibly in a bid to save Kate's life.
Just my opinion.

Absolutely. That sounds about right for Sawyer's arc. His story is just beginning but he's doomed in the end.

To the OP, I certainly did think he seemed rather cheerful/helpful in TBOTE in comparison to his dark and brooding demeanor in the finale. But with the death of Charlie, and the circumstances they're in, I guess he just decided to shake it off. Kinda hard to keep being gruff when everyone has just lost a dear friend, island-wise at least.
100%
Maybe since he killed the real Sawyer (Cooper), he feels like it's time to shed his skin of the Sawyer we know, since it was a vengeance thing.
But Sawyer will always be Sawyer.


Maybe so, but it didnt look like it was going to be that easy for him last we saw him TTLG. I guess Sawyer is just a man of many faces.

onelittlenumber
02-03-2008, 04:25 PM
I disagree that it was the killing of Cooper that freed him. On the contrary, that is going to weigh heavy on him and I think it just made it easier for him to kill Tom without blinking for a moment. It's still eating him up (see Kate's nagging him in the S3 finale) and I think it will inform his actions as he comes to terms with the fact that getting rid of the original Sawyer didn't get rid of the Sawyer inside him.

I agree with this comment. I think that killing Cooper has made him more introspective, which isn't freeing at all. I think we're just seeing Sawyer with less of a shell, less armor than before. That's been happening at least since he was almost summarily executed in cage-town. Facing one's own death probably does that to a person.

I think there's an arc for Sawyer, but it has less to do with a marked shift in character than a revealing of his hidden vulnerabilities (or what he thought was hidden).

Either way, I don't think he'll be killed off. I do think fans would be up in arms (myself included, though I hope that there's more to his story to be explored--I don't know where he can go from here).

Dezdemona
02-03-2008, 06:25 PM
I think the biggest difference in Sawyer is that he's become a much more serious man since killing Cooper. As mentioned by someone upthread, I also see him as being very much adrift at the moment. He's been running on anger for so long now and no matter what he was doing in his life, there was this one mission he always wanted to accomplish - find the original Cooper. That's done now, for better or worse. So the thing that gave him a sense of purpose is gone and he has to redefine himself.

He's never been happy about the man he became, i.e. a con man just like original Sawyer. Self-loathing was always a strong part of his makeup and I imagine it still is. However, I don't think he'll have the energy or the interest for conning as a lifestyle any more. I could be wrong, but I just don't see him being able to continue down that road. But that leaves him with no road... so that's why I feel he's adrift. Not who he was, but not who he will be either.

As for the other people in the group, despite his efforts to resist the process, he has formed attachments to these people. I can't imagine a S1 Sawyer making those overtures toward Hurely. He might have felt for the guy - I think he would have felt for the guy - but he wouldn't have done anything about it. That's new, being willing to accept having warmer feelings toward people and to act on them. He's lived his life in the underbelly, where everybody has ulterior motives, everybody uses everybody for something. Being with these ordinary, fairly decent people for this length of time.. just as himself, not as somebody playing a role, is a new experience for him. That's my guess, anyhow. Dealing with people on this basis is a learning process for him, and it's ongoing.

I loved that scene with him leaning on the van, drinking a beer, while Juliet did the digging. THAT, to me, is quintessential Sawyer. Philosophically, he's a quid pro quo guy. On a different occasion, he dug while she watched, so turnabout is fair play. I doubt if he'd stand there indefinitely - just long enough to feel the scales balance and make the point to Juliet. Perfect little character scene. :biggrin:

JackSackAndCrack
02-03-2008, 06:59 PM
What I want to know is why Sawyer's trying on an Irish accent.

Erm, whuut? When was that?

Anyway I think Sawyer's story is pretty much done with. He killed the real Sawyer who ruined his life, avenged his parents, is nice to people now, etc.

To top it off Kate seems to be falling more and more for Jack, although i don't want to get into the love triangle as i hate it and it doesn't interest me.

I'm not saying KILL HIM OFF, but...he just seems like a secondary character to me now. Where as he seemed integral to the story late season 2 - early season 3.

I think Jack, Locke, Desmond, Kate and Hurley are the interesting ones now. Although i guess this could all change in the next few episodes.

CalvinHobbes
02-03-2008, 07:11 PM
Anyway I think Sawyer's story is pretty much done with. He killed the real Sawyer who ruined his life, avenged his parents, is nice to people now, etc.

I think Jack, Locke, Desmond, Kate and Hurley are the interesting ones now. Although i guess this could all change in the next few episodes.

I don't agree. I don't think Sawyer will change that easily and I don't think Hurley's time in the spotlight will be long-lived. The way I interpreted the change was that he couldn't talk about killing Cooper to anyone (Kate in particular) but he could talk about Charlie's death with Hurley. It's like talking to someone in a bar, someone you don't know very well (Christian Shepherd, for instance). It seems like the people he has the least invested in or the least to fear from are the easiest for him to talk to in a crisis. Not that he will talk about what's eating him but he will talk.

woland
02-03-2008, 08:31 PM
Sawyer has always combined the selfish and the selfless both were in this episode when he tried to comfort Hurley and went with Locke instead of staying with Kate. He has changed from the first season to now. He's more about protecting the community than he was in the first season. His journey over the series has been and will be to become a better person.

Jack Sawyer
02-03-2008, 08:39 PM
Sawyer has always combined the selfish and the selfless both were in this episode when he tried to comfort Hurley and went with Locke instead of staying with Kate. He has changed from the first season to now. He's more about protecting the community than he was in the first season. His journey over the series has been and will be to become a better person.


...and then he'll die. :(

Guinevere
02-04-2008, 12:40 AM
I'm also in the camp that thinks that James has changed, mostly for the better. And for those who say "Well he killed Tom in cold blood!" In the heat of the moment and knowing just a wee bit more about Tom than, say, Hurley, I can't say that I blame him. But that's another debate and most people aren't going to change their mind about what he did at this point anyway.

He was willing to go back and try to help Sayid, Jin and Bernard.
He tried to protect Hurley from the flying bullets or any potential flying bullets after Hurley barrelled into the beach camp.
He wanted to warn Jack immediately that Naomi was lying.
While grousing, he still "cowboyed up" and took off with the other Losties to warn Jack and the rest of the bunch.
He was concerned about Hurley and gave him an opportunity to talk about it but respected that Hurley just needed to push through and then told him to holler if he needed him.
There are some that thought him going with Locke was selfish and maybe it was. However, he knows some things that other people don't know about Locke and about the Island and/or the Hostiles. I don't know that he's had an opportunity to reconcile what happened at Black Rock and how that all came to be. All he knows is that there's a new threat to the Island that Charlie warned them about and, for once, he doesn't want to be in the line of fire. He's tired. He's worn down and if these folks are on the up and up, they'll find the Otherville Losties and he can make some decisions then.

None of these things are things James would have done in Season 1 and probably even Season 2. He's been through the equivalent of boot camp where they tear you down and then build you up. It's going to be interesting to see what happens with him in the next 3 seasons.
I'm also in the camp that believes he will die in the last season while making a sacrifice for Kate or Hurley or even Jack.

woland
02-04-2008, 12:55 AM
I think the shooting of Tom was important because it was portrayed as an ambiguous moment. Tom was an evil SOB and after everything Sawyer had endured in the hydra and the destruction the losties had incured at the hands of the others it is understandable he would be angry and want Tom to pay. Besides that he swore as far back as season two to take revenge on Tom for stealing Walt. And the driving force for Sawyer's life off island was revenge for his parent's death, even though he killed Cooper that is still a driving force in his character, so his killing of Tom is perfectly understandable. And I did cheer him on whe he shot Tom. At the same time he did shoot an unarmed man, which is why Hurley said he surrendered to underline that fact. But Sawyer did go back to save the three at the beach so a dark act within a selfless one, which is the key to his character.

james_sawyer
02-04-2008, 01:02 AM
I think that Sawyer is even more messed up now than he was before. He dedicated his life to finding the real Sawyer, and searched for years. He even assumed that man's identity in the process. To do that...and then to have it end...it's almost like not having anything left to live for. He doesn't know how to be James Ford. The only life he knows is the one he made for himself while trying to find the very man who ruined it in the first place. I think killing him was very bittersweet for Sawyer.

woland
02-04-2008, 01:38 AM
Guinevere
I think if any character dies to save everyone it'll be John Locke, and I think it will come at the end of the series. It would fit Locke's whole messiah vibe.

Guinevere
02-04-2008, 02:13 AM
I don't know about that, woland. I think Locke has a very different destiny and it's probably on the Island. That doesn't mean that he won't ulitmately sacrifice something else for the Island but I don't think it will be his life.

woland
02-04-2008, 03:41 AM
I realize more losties will die before the end of the show, especially if that spoiler about Claire is true, but I wonder sometimes is anyone in the original cast going to make it to the end of the show? I realize if you make a show about survival loss of life has to be addressed to make the stakes real. I correct myself Vincent will make it to the end of the show.

lomeinie
02-04-2008, 04:07 PM
For anyone worried Sawyer is losing his snarky, sarcastic edge with his trying to help Hurley by being his sounding board, I wouldn't. In the past Sawyer had a few times he displayed a little consideration for someone besides himself and honestly while I think he does have something of a heart underneath that tough guy exterior I also think he's been hurt too much in the past to completely expose the fact he does have a heart. I think he'll keep on being his usual snarky and sarcastic self, and then just when you leat expect it is when he'll show a little consideration for someone else, like he did for Hurley in this last episode we watched.

Oh and I hope they're not planning on killing Sawyer off as it would miff me pretty bad since over the last couple of season I started to like him even though I still do not trust him. (Plus Josh Holloway is pretty easy on the eyes too *blush*)

Ocean7
02-04-2008, 04:32 PM
I realize more losties will die before the end of the show, especially if that spoiler about Claire is true, but I wonder sometimes is anyone in the original cast going to make it to the end of the show? I realize if you make a show about survival loss of life has to be addressed to make the stakes real. I correct myself Vincent will make it to the end of the show.

sawyer can't die. it is a main character. the most intriguing and entertaining of the show. i don't even accept a heroic death near the end of season 6. i hope, after six year of loyalty to the show, not only a good ending, also a happy ending for the most beloved losties. real life is sad enough. and sawyer's life to. jjabrams said he is a star wars fan. me to. han solo live. and take the lady. this is a joke, but... what i mean is that if i spend a lot of hours (in the case of Lost, more than 50 hours, maybe more than 150 near the end of the show: tv, dvd, blu-ray, forums, etc.), i'll be really angry for the trick of another "unexpected" death.i dont' even wanna know the reasons. you can always find a "good" reason. it's not the point. karma, the isle rules, extreme sacrifice and redemption, etc. in a tv series you'll have something like a symbiotic connection with your favourite character. you'are happy when he is, sad when he is, etc. kill him after three season should be like cheat and betray a fan trust.
lost is becoming a show about people and not only mysteries.
autors say from the beginning that is also a show about hope and redemption. i think redemption doesn't come only with extreme sacrifice of yourself. or, at least, not only in its literal meaning. it is too cheap uses this formula over and over again during the show. i don't like this growth of deaths expect to happen before the end of the show. for example, sawyer has other two very interesting path of redemption: the love for kate (in season 1 "i never fallen in love with a woman"; in season 2 "i love her") and the friendship with the other losties, in particolar Jack ("you are the closet to a friend i have". Hurley and Sawyer are already friend). i really hope they can be the luke (jack), han (james) and leia (kate) of third millenium.

Guinevere
02-05-2008, 01:41 AM
Darlton has already said in a podcast that the ending would be bittersweet. I took that to mean that there wouldn't be a happy ending for everyone or even most of them.