From what i drew from the desert flashback it proves that the groups have traveled in the past. The polar bear had a hydra collar. Seems like the desert site was the island in the future. Would be interesting to see what else is out there. Just a thought.

Totally agreed. That was my first thought and I absolutely think that was the revelation.

so that would then have been a flash back ...or forward...

I can't explain it but it doesn't prove time travel. The bear was discovered in Tunisia which is in Africa I believe. You are saying that the lost island is really Africa in the future?

Yeah, I don't think it was time travel. It specifically said Tunisia. I don't know what it says really, but my first thought was that Charlotte is on the trail of Dharma, and that they had other research locations around the world... maybe.

plus who's to say it even was a polar bear, unless did someone say it was a polar bear, someone in the epi. not one of us, I could swear I heard something about prehistoric, well at least something that suggests the skeleton was ancient.

Yeah, I don't think it was time travel. It specifically said Tunisia. I don't know what it says really, but my first thought was that Charlotte is on the trail of Dharma, and that they had other research locations around the world... maybe.


Agreed. Dharma existed in Michigan. Why not Tunisia?

I think it's more a question of how did the bear get from place to place rather than timeframe to timeframe. The bear might have ended up in Tunisia the same way the Drug Plane ended up on the Island.

I need to go back and rewatch it though because depending on how deep the archeoligists dug, there would be a time issue if the bear ended up dying in Tunisia before DHARMA was even on the Island in the 60's-70's.

plus who's to say it even was a polar bear, unless did someone say it was a polar bear, someone in the epi. not one of us, I could swear I heard something about prehistoric, well at least something that suggests the skeleton was ancient.


it was specifically stated to be a polar bear in the episode.

plus who's to say it even was a polar bear, unless did someone say it was a polar bear, someone in the epi. not one of us, I could swear I heard something about prehistoric, well at least something that suggests the skeleton was ancient.

Either Charlotte or her assistant said it was a Polar bear.

I don't know about time travel...anything is possible, but I'd be more likely to buy into the fact that Dharma was doing research in many places around the world. Whoever Charlotte is she obviously knew about Dharma...and I think that the team in the helicopter might be after Ben because they somehow know his involvement in killing the Dharma team on the island.

As evidence against this, Charlottes partner says "Is it a dinosaur?" and she says something to the effect of it of being "millions of years off". If the island is in the past, those bones wouldn't be white and would look, well, like a sabretooth tiger's bones. There really wan't any petrification that had taken places from what it looked like (the bones were still bones, and not brownish-rock like million-year bones are.

Oh, and Tunisia was part of Pangea:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Pangea_pl_gi_ubt.png/533px-Pangea_pl_gi_ubt.png

Which means it was never underwater unless the island existed more than 250 - 300 million years ago.

EDIT: Also, Charlotte clearly says it is a polar bear, even giving the species and genus, then saying "A Polar Bear".

I think it's more a question of how did the bear get from place to place rather than timeframe to timeframe. The bear might have ended up in Tunisia the same way the Drug Plane ended up on the Island.

I need to go back and rewatch it though because depending on how deep the archeoligists dug, there would be a time issue if the bear ended up dying in Tunisia before DHARMA was even on the Island in the 60's-70's.


Good comments, I agree...some more like evidence of a portal of some sort than that of time travel, but we'll have to see I guess.

Regarding the dig though, Im not positive, but I dont think the dig site didn't look so deep...making 60's or 70's somewhat possible?

I'm not certain about time travel even though I think it's a big part of this all. I'm thinking the connection has more to do with energy. The death of the middle east's dominance and the begging of Island's (magnetic) energy dominance.

Just a hunch.

One unanswered question - was this a dig into rock strata from a LOOONG time ago, or hundreds of years ago, or is it recent? You wouldn't normally have an archeological site digging into soil layers mere decades old...

Unless something is spelled out for us in black and white, saying something "proved" something is often quite dangerous on this show.

When I saw the polar bear and it's ancient DHARMA/Hydra collar, I immediately assumed they were standing on the same plot of land (what is not Tunisia, possibly Tatooine!) that was once the Hydra Island. How that works, exactly, I do not know.

I'm not going to think too hard about this one. Some facts (and then speculation):

* Polar bears were being housed in cages on Hydra Island (site of the Hydra Station).

* Charlotte Lewis and her assistant gained access to a dig in southern Tunisia that featured a polar skeleton complete with a collar that featured the Hydra logo.

The logical conclusion? The polar bear skeleton that Charlotte uncovered is one of the polar bears that were being kept at the Hydra Station on the Island.

The question? What accounts for that polar bear skeleton appearing at that location?

The answer? The Island and southern Tunisia are one in the same. The same land mass, but seperated by "x" years.

The determining factor? Time. The Island clearly exists in the same universe as the outside (or real as Ben termed it) world but in vastly differant time periods. The Island in the past, the real world in the present (and future).

When I saw the polar bear and it's ancient DHARMA/Hydra collar, I immediately assumed they were standing on the same plot of land (what is not Tunisia, possibly Tatooine!) that was once the Hydra Island. How that works, exactly, I do not know.

why was it an ancient collar? i didnt really see anything ancient about it.

Desert Bear = Bunny 15

It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.

But dont ask me why.

Desert Bear = Bunny 15

It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.

But dont ask me why.

That's a good possibility actually,


Spoilers indicate that The Orchid Station will be visited at some point, and the side effect of the experiments being performed there produced a clone, twin, facsimile, whatever. The test subject we saw in the video was a rabbit, but as you suggest, what if the polar bear was experimented on? What's to say a human wasn't ultimately experimented on (Candle himself)?

Why is the leather collar still intact?

Sorry, but the "island and tunisia are the same place" theories don't seem to add up. The locations, even if you are talking about 300 million years, do not add up. Tunisia was never an island. It was smack dab in the middle of the biggest land mass on earth.

why was it an ancient collar? i didnt really see anything ancient about it

Indeed, I found myself thinking about how fast an apparently leather collar (I may be wrong about the leather) would decay in such a climate. The scene made me think of discussions of the length of time Adam and Eve had been dead. Charlotte seemed pretty happy when she saw the Dharma logo.

Why is the leather collar still intact?

Sorry, but the "island and tunisia are the same place" theories don't seem to add up. The locations, even if you are talking about 300 million years, do not add up. Tunisia was never an island. It was smack dab in the middle of the biggest land mass on earth.

No offense, but we're not watching Nova. A million square pegs are being stuck in round holes on this show. To expect ace scientific commentary is expecting a bit much, and IMO takes away from the narrative.

But if Charlotte was on the island already in the "past" (with the Losties), why would she be searching for and so surprised to find Dharma (specifically one of the Hydra polar bears) later, in the "future"? You get what I mean? If she was already on the island in the past (present to us), why would she be there again in the future?

I really don't think the island and Tunisia are the same. Tunisia isn't an island, anyway, it's part of Africa. Africa is a very large continent, we already know the relative size of the island, doesn't make sense for them to be the same land mass.

Rather, I think it's simply another Dharma location, and obviously we were seeing flashbacks of all the Freighties before they got to the island (as is evident by Faraday's and Lapidas' scenes), and it was obvious that once Charlotte dropped into the water, she was extremely excited to be where she was, until she saw the Losties. Thus, she was obviously searching for Dharma, found something in Tunisia that led her eventually to the island.

In the amount of time it would take for the island to transform (in any natural way) into Tunisia, the collar would certainly be degraded.

Also, Charlotte looks at the newspaper claiming to have found Oceanic 815 in that scene- so that puts this particular scene squarely in the regular time of the show (2004, or whenever the fake plane was discovered). End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

No offense, but we're not watching Nova. A million square pegs are being stuck in round holes on this show. To expect ace scientific commentary is expecting a bit much, and IMO takes away from the narrative.

I looked that up after watching this episode not knowing a single thing about Tunisia. It took 2 seconds of google and wikipedia to provide some insight as to where that part of land was, and if we are discussing theories there is nothing wrong with providing real information about why this theory makes no sense. The writers do use research tools when writing the show.

My opinion is i seriously doubt the idea of *Tunisia* is the island in the past. And if I was in 5th grade reading about basic geology, I would definitely have brought these same points up. It's not exactly extreme science.

Furthermore, we can't cite wikipedia and google on every single theory on this board to prove and support our theories, but then say "oh you're looking too much into it" when someone uses the same tools to disprove the theory. That's hypocritical.

Specifically, the critter was referred to by its scientific name, Ursus Maritimus.

Desert Bear = Bunny 15

It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.

But dont ask me why.

Thank you. That is immediately what I thought of.

And while we don't know for sure the work going on in the Orchid station, it's pretty safe to say it involves some aspect of time. Now that question is. Is it Marty Mcfly Time travel i.e. past and future. Or away to go in and out of dimensions/portal like a door.

Could be the Polar bear wondered it's way to the Orchid station and went through the portal door into Tunsnia.

Side Note: This is what I love and hate about Lost. All the questions we are dying for answers too but also the frustration because we have to wait for our answers and come up with all these theories that usually leaves us kicking ourselves in the butt because we say "how come I didn't see that coming".

Did anyone see the movie The Prestige, starring Hugh Jackman? It was a while back for me, so forgive me if I screw up some of the details. In it, Jackman's character commissions Nicola Tesla to build a transporting machine, but the machine doesn't work quite as expected. What it actually does is produce clones. This is discovered while testing the device on a hat. The hat doesn't disappear. If I recall, everyone thinks the machine is broken, only to discover that the hat is simply being cloned, and the cloned hat materializing in a different location -- outside the building.

The island, or some device on it, may have the capability of doing something similar, making clones appear out of thin air at random locations all over the globe. The polar bear might have been the result of DHARMA's tests of that device back in the 60s -- a clone of the island bear magically materializing in Tunisia, collar and all.

ETA: For the record, I feel the condition of the collar to be a strike against time travel.

I definately disagree about that the polar bear is proof of time travel. It has been revealed before that DI has stations all over the world, Sri Lanka etc. The dessert we see Charlote excavating was once a DI facility. That is the way I see it anyway, and I think to conclude time travel from this piece of evidence is a reach; I am also not saying tt is not an option.

THIS DOES NOT PROVE TIME TRAVEL. I'm sticking to that until the end. there will be no time travel on the show. Desmond's flash was nothing other than that. I believe the polar bear was the remnants of some Dharma testing site before they went on the island. They will not add time travel to this show.

No offense, but we're not watching Nova. A million square pegs are being stuck in round holes on this show. To expect ace scientific commentary is expecting a bit much, and IMO takes away from the narrative.

Not watching Nova, but watching Lost, whose viewers comb through the show for clues and whose producers are too crafty to stretch believability by having bleach white polar bear bones and portions of a leather collar representing something that has been there millions of years. Narrative aside, this dig, to me, does not represent support for the "island resides in the past and becomes part of Tunisia" theory.

Either Charlotte or her assistant said it was a Polar bear.

We are not given any proof that this bear was one of the bear on the Island, or a bear that was on the Island at the same time as our heros. For the moment , it is only a polar bear with a DHARMA collar. Maybe Dharma was active in Tunisia.

But I begin to believe that the Island is a temporal singularity. The Black Rock, the Others in the 50's to 70's, and the Losties have all been caught up on the Island at different points in time and space.

One of the others is in fact from the Black Rock crew. Maybe the longest you stay on the island, the less chances you can leave it alive. Maybe the world goes decades while it is only a month on the island. Women can't conceive because of the time distortion.

Ben may know how to revert the distortion damages, and this is the source of his power. He may have learned it from Jacob, who is de-phased from our time continuum.

Or maybe, the distortion is outside the Island and the Island is protected because of its magnetic field.

Guys, let's go over what we know.

-The polar bear had a Hydra collar. While there may be other Dharma stations around the world, I'd be willing to guess that the Hydra station on the Island is the only one.

-If the first premise is accurate, then some polar bear remains from the Hydra ended up in Tunisia.

Tie that to some other stuff we know:

-We know the island needed a beacon so that the sub could locate it.

-Eko's plane, which should have been nowhere near the South Pacific where the 815 crashed, somehow ended up on the Island.

There is other evidence, but I think it's pretty safe to say that from all that we know, the island has to be in drift. I don't think that it has anything to do with time travel, but it potentially has something to do with parallel universes or layered universes. They needed the beacon so the sub could locate the island while in drift. While drifting somewhere close to Africa, the drug plane crashed on the island.

Perhaps things that get buried on this island while it is drifting (or maybe even just things that die) get deposited in the islands current location in our world. If the polar died on the island while it was drifting through Tunisia, then the remains would be left in Tunisia. Maybe that is why the Others burn their dead instead of burying them? Maybe if some of the graves were dug up, they would be empty. I dunno. I'm not really sure where I'm going with this, but I'm almost positive there is some drifting/depositing going on, and I'm sure there is some pseudoscience out there to back this up.

Wow. That was a great first post.

Perhaps things that get buried on this island while it is drifting (or maybe even just things that die) get deposited in the islands current location in our world. If the polar died on the island while it was drifting through Tunisia, then the remains would be left in Tunisia. Maybe that is why the Others burn their dead instead of burying them? Maybe if some of the graves were dug up, they would be empty.Jack and Kate dig up the marshal's body in season one, and he's still there.

You all may be correct...and wrong.

I like the Polar Bear "wandering" into the Orchid station. Kinda like Poo.

How about the Polar Bear as test subject, such as Bunny 15, sent to another station off Island, Tunisia, maybe a different time than "now," like when the Orchid Video was shot. The transportation system much like in The Prestige, utilizing concepts from both Casmir and Tesla.

The Bear would then be subject to "Stated Goal: Repatriation accelerated deterritorialization of Ursus Maritimus through gene therapy and extreme climate change" or some such as depicted on the blast door map. Remember that thing?

That came to mind first thing.

Last episode people were talking about a hollow earth theory. I am more inclined to believe that than time travel, at least at this point.

The determining factor? Time. The Island clearly exists in the same universe as the outside (or real as Ben termed it) world but in vastly differant time periods. The Island in the past, the real world in the present (and future).

This is how I see as well. I don't understand how that works, exactly, but that seems to be the case.

Okay, I havent posted in a while so here goes. Way to go LostSasquatch btw.

I believe that DHARMA was doing gene therapy from DNA obtained from the Natives on the Island (Richard Alpert as an example). They can appear in random places at will, just like Bunny 15 did. This shows DHARMA obviously infused the gene therapy into the rabbits, so why not the polar bears? IT would seem that the polar bear was infused with this gene as well so it would appear in Tunisia.

This was a way for DHARMA to experiment not only on the possibility of teleportation among living animals, but also to test EXTREME CLIMATE CHANGE thru GENE THERAPY. Anyone else concur?

THIS DOES NOT PROVE TIME TRAVEL. I'm sticking to that until the end. there will be no time travel on the show. Desmond's flash was nothing other than that. I believe the polar bear was the remnants of some Dharma testing site before they went on the island. They will not add time travel to this show.

In the official Lost podcast on February 20th 2007 the producers confirmed Desmond travelled through time.

Carlton Cuse: So talk about Dam- uh Desmond's flashback, Damon. I can't say Damon and Desmond in the same sentence so. Did he really go back, or is that still questionable? What are the implications of his vision? And will he be able to harness this power?
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, I guess it wasn't really quite a flashback in the, in the conventional sense of the way that we do flashbacks on the show, you know, the reality of it is, this is more the experience that he had when he turned the fail safe key and obviously as evidenced by certain future memories that he's having during his flashback. Uh, for the first time in the history of the show we actually allowed a character to have an opportunity to make a different choice than they make before and, uh, Desmond doesn't. He is, he's, he, he is, he is course corrected by, by a certain mysterious, uh, older lady in a ring shop. So uh, uh what, what was your question?
Carlton Cuse (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Carlton_Cuse)No, that was fine, that was -
Damon Lindelof: Does that cover it?
Carlton Cuse: When it comes to an answer, that pretty much covers it. Well, we're - I suppose people want to know what does this mean?
Damon Lindelof: Was it really - did it really happen?
Carlton Cuse: Yeah did it really happen?
Damon Lindelof: Uh, yeah! I think it really happened. I mean -
Carlton Cuse: I think it did to.
Damon Lindelof: You know, one of the things that we've tried very rarely to do on the show is to, to play something as only having been imagined or dreamed. And you know, I'd, I would, I would say that in the global sense of things, that Desmond, back in, you know back in the, the year 1996, actually had that experience. Now, I would venture to guess that in future flashbacks of Desmond's, that they would be, treated as traditional flashbacks where he doesn't really have any awareness of his destiny, but in this particular instance, uh, we went outside the box a little.
Carlton Cuse: So talk about Dam- uh Desmond's flashback, Damon. I can't say Damon and Desmond in the same sentence so. Did he really go back, or is that still questionable? What are the implications of his vision? And will he be able to harness this power?
Damon Lindelof: Yeah, I guess it wasn't really quite a flashback in the, in the conventional sense of the way that we do flashbacks on the show, you know, the reality of it is, this is more the experience that he had when he turned the fail safe key and obviously as evidenced by certain future memories that he's having during his flashback. Uh, for the first time in the history of the show we actually allowed a character to have an opportunity to make a different choice than they make before and, uh, Desmond doesn't. He is, he's, he, he is, he is course corrected by, by a certain mysterious, uh, older lady in a ring shop. So uh, uh what, what was your question?
Carlton Cuse: No, that was fine, that was -
Damon Lindelof: Does that cover it?
Carlton Cuse: When it comes to an answer, that pretty much covers it. Well, we're - I suppose people want to know what does this mean?
Damon Lindelof: Was it really - did it really happen?
Carlton Cuse: Yeah did it really happen?
Damon Lindelof: Uh, yeah! I think it really happened. I mean -
Carlton Cuse: I think it did to.
Damon Lindelof: You know, one of the things that we've tried very rarely to do on the show is to, to play something as only having been imagined or dreamed. And you know, I'd, I would, I would say that in the global sense of things, that Desmond, back in, you know back in the, the year 1996, actually had that experience. Now, I would venture to guess that in future flashbacks of Desmond's, that they would be, treated as traditional flashbacks where he doesn't really have any awareness of his destiny, but in this particular instance, uh, we went outside the box a little.

Indeed, I found myself thinking about how fast an apparently leather collar (I may be wrong about the leather) would decay in such a climate. The scene made me think of discussions of the length of time Adam and Eve had been dead. Charlotte seemed pretty happy when she saw the Dharma logo.


Leather does not decay very swiftly, especially in a desert climate. I have seen preserved
artifacts from Israel and Egypt, including leather sandals, that were a few thousand years
old. Preserved in the dry soil I am sure the decay rate is very slow. Not millions of years obviously,
but it could have been far in the past when the bear was buried.

While it is true that desmond DID travel thru time, my gut says that the polar bear had nothign to do with TIME travel but SPACIAL DIMENSIONAL travel a.k.a. teleporting. thats all I'm saying. My previous post explains it more.

I think this part of Africa acts as a "gateway". We have a switch taking place betwen Eko's brothers plane & the polar bear.....

[quote=caforrest I could swear I heard something about prehistoric, well at least something that suggests the skeleton was ancient.[/quote]




When asked if it was a dinosaur, she said, "Not by a few million years."

We would need to know what *layer* the Dharma bear was found in...if it was buried for millions of years, deep in rock/sediment, then that would open a different can of worms than if it was just lying near the surface and only a few years old.

Does anyone know if the colored flags have anything to do with depth? Also, it looks like the bear is just under the surface. There is a bit over a foot depth on the sides of that particular spot, but do we know how deep the entire dig is?

My best guess is that it is indeed time travel,but still in the experimental stage.The traveller pops out of existence,and then pops back into existence,but they have no control over where or when it pops back.At a guess,I'd say this polar bear popped into the Tunisian desert a couple of hundred years ago.No doubt the locals would have been amazed,and built some sort of legend or mythology about the beast,and thats how a cultural anthologist with connections to DHARMA realised the significance of the find.

i don't think that the bear proves time travel...i think it shows that darma was in more places than just the island.

-Eko's plane, which should have been nowhere near the South Pacific where the 815 crashed, somehow ended up on the Island.



The 815 shouldn't have been near Africa either.

To me, the Hydra Polar Bear incident seems very familiar to what happened with the rabbit in the Orchid Station. Teleportation/duplication of some sort.

To me, the Hydra Polar Bear incident seems very familiar to what happened with the rabbit in the Orchid Station. Teleportation/duplication of some sort.

Forgot about that "experiment"......this could be the key to why the polar bear is in Africa,,,,
now the question would be was it a mistake or was it sent on purpose???


bawstngrl

What a lame scene. can anyone say "jumped the shark?"

To me, the Hydra Polar Bear incident seems very familiar to what happened with the rabbit in the Orchid Station. Teleportation/duplication of some sort.



My feelings about the rabbit had to do with some sort of matter/antimatter situation...they can't be near each other. The Dharma bear in the dig wouldn't be antimatter, it wouldn't be reasonable.

If there was a time portal, the bear could have been sent back in time by accident, or even on purpose.

If it was on purpose, then that might imply that Charlotte knew exactly where to look and what she would find...she knew exactly where to dig to find the Dharma collar.


This further implies that she was aware of the experiments...meaning that she knows something about the D.I.? Why was she smiling with such glee?


What do y'all think?

How about the Polar Bear as test subject, such as Bunny 15, sent to another station off Island, Tunisia, maybe a different time than "now," like when the Orchid Video was shot. The transportation system much like in The Prestige, utilizing concepts from both Casmir and Tesla.
I mentioned The Prestige a few posts prior to yours, but seem to have been totally ignored :cool:

Indeed this seems like the most plausible idea. In fact, whatever it is I propose produced a duplicate of the polar bear in Tunisia (probably back in the 60s) may also have produced a duplicate of Charlie off-island prior to his death, memories and all.

If that's true, one might ask what do you have to do to get "cloned" and live off island? I don't know. It could be a device, and it could be something supernatural. I can't recall Charlie having experienced anything unusual but dying, but who knows -- that itself may be the key: your ticket off the island is your death on the island, and those who are aware of that (i.e., Ms. Klugh, Patchy) have no fear of death.

Following that train of thought, would that mean Jack, Kate, and Hugo were all killed on the island, same as Charlie?

When asked if it was a dinosaur, she said, "Not by a few million years."

We would need to know what *layer* the Dharma bear was found in...if it was buried for millions of years, deep in rock/sediment, then that would open a different can of worms than if it was just lying near the surface and only a few years old.

Does anyone know if the colored flags have anything to do with depth? Also, it looks like the bear is just under the surface. There is a bit over a foot depth on the sides of that particular spot, but do we know how deep the entire dig is?

I took that to mean 'not by a few million years' in evolution.

My feelings about the rabbit had to do with some sort of matter/antimatter situation...they can't be near each other. The Dharma bear in the dig wouldn't be antimatter, it wouldn't be reasonable.

If there was a time portal, the bear could have been sent back in time by accident, or even on purpose.

If it was on purpose, then that might imply that Charlotte knew exactly where to look and what she would find...she knew exactly where to dig to find the Dharma collar.


This further implies that she was aware of the experiments...meaning that she knows something about the D.I.? Why was she smiling with such glee?


What do y'all think?

I agree....I got the impression that Charlotte was in awe once she was on the Island. I think she's going to be a pivotal player in explaining some of the Island's mysteries...

I took that to mean 'not by a few million years' in evolution.



Yes, I understand that aspect. I was thinking along the lines that it may have been a relatively nice structure (as opposed to a weathered one), yet not all that deep.

On the other hand, there have been recent discoveries in a general Egyptian area (you'd have to look it up) of exposed whale fossils...so depth might not be a factor.

Otherwise, C. obviously knew where and how to dig and find the collar! Otherwise, it would have already been uncovered. (duh)

Desert Bear = Bunny 15

It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.

But dont ask me why.

I agree, it's a tie in to the Orchid Video.

I also think being shown the Hydra station insignia was key. It tells us that this Polar Bear came from the Hydra station, which is from our Lostie's island, not from another station in Tunisia. Not that I don't think Dharma could have had a station in Tunisia, but I don't think they would have 2 stations in 2 different places named the same. To me, the Polar Bear having the Hydra insignia means it's from the Island.

I agree....I got the impression that Charlotte was in awe once she was on the Island. I think she's going to be a pivotal player in explaining some of the Island's mysteries...


It seemed to me that she was thrilled, excited, and happy...but that could have been her glee at surviving the fall.

On the other hand, maybe she's been hoping to come to the island (for her own reasons or for someone else?) for a long time?

It feels like she has something to do with, or has some knowledge of the D.I. experiments.

Two possiblities in my mind:

1) Polar bear finds the gate/portal to/from lost island (or is part of the incident or a Dharma Casimir experiment) and sometime in the 70s or 80s gets sent to the other side of the gate/portal in Tunisia - dies and decomposes over about 20-30 years.

2) Lost island is taking place in the past (probably hundreds of years ago) on a Volcanic island that ends up forming part of Africa. Many years later, polar bear is dug up.

My feelings about the rabbit had to do with some sort of matter/antimatter situation...they can't be near each other. The Dharma bear in the dig wouldn't be antimatter, it wouldn't be reasonable.

If there was a time portal, the bear could have been sent back in time by accident, or even on purpose.

If it was on purpose, then that might imply that Charlotte knew exactly where to look and what she would find...she knew exactly where to dig to find the Dharma collar.


This further implies that she was aware of the experiments...meaning that she knows something about the D.I.? Why was she smiling with such glee?


What do y'all think?

I agree. Charlotte clearly knows what she was looking for. Whether or not it was an accident - well - we know they were experimenting, so...

I can't even comment on the matter/anti-matter theory. I don't understand enough about it.

Here's a cent's worth (maybe):

Tunisia is at (roughly) 36 degrees 50 minutes north, 10 degrees 9 minutes east. If I did my math right, I think that the opposite side of the planet would be at 36 degrees 50 minutes south, 170 degrees 9 minutes west. That location points a little east of New Zealand. Could that be the location of the island?

Between the Orchid film, the "dead" (but "not in the conventional sense") comments, and "extra" Oceanic 815, it seems like there's a lot of instances of "doubling" of living things on the show. So, a "double" of the polar bear, on the opposite side of the planet might slot into such a overarching theme.

I think the polar bear appeared in Tunisia in exactly the same way that Eko's brother's plane (which could be in Tunisia by then) appeared on the island. There is some connection there, a worwhole or something like that, and maybe also conecting the island to the Bali crash site (if that is not a hoax, of course).

It's still disturbing that Hurley and Sayid heard the old music on their radio and that a lady called "Amelia" was with the Others.

Now, if Glenn Miller shows up...

People People :)

Most are missing the obvious here. Ask...why did the writers pick a desert?

That leads to Dharma wanting to find out if it was, in fact, genetic manipulation that caused the polar bears to survive--OR the Island itself. They got their answer--the Polar bear could not survive apart from the Island

This points to the larger concept of whether Locke and Rose will return to their original diseased state if they leave----the answer is yes.

That is the most obvious solution. Dharma brought a polar bear to the desert to test their work

Now, anyone who says there is no time travel on Lost should not even be responded to anymore. Its a confirmed fact. But this case doesnt have to be time travel. We dont have enough info to say. It could be something weirder than the obvious as stated by many of you.

Clearly CS Lewis was on the trail of Dharma in 2004. She already did NOT accept that the 815 crash was real as evidenced by her partners comments about her not believing it in any language. It is also clear her skills are tuned for further digs on the Island.

It also seems clear to me that Ben is wanted for the murder of Dharma Island staff. Whether the fantastic 4 know this is not so clear but what is clear is this is not just about retreiving Ben

Also the Desmond picture was Naomi's cover story, should she be caught by the others. She was to say she was there to rescue Desmond to hide the fact that they wanted Ben. So obviously, this group stole or retreived the info Penny gained in her search for Desmond

What if he was a test subject for the Dharma Transporter, like in Star Trek: The Motion Picture.
Island: "We sent him. Did you get him?"
Tunsinia: "Affirmative, but what we got, didn't live very long...fortunately."

I took it as a flash back, not forward, and it was a polar bear with the hydra symbol. Time travel is around the plot and I believe to become a larger part of it as the story unfolds.

Do you remember the memos and letters we found on the Hanso Foundation website before Alvar posted his message? Hanso Founder posted the memo below to this site some time ago discussing the Life Extension Project and a disease at the Tunisia facility:

23 August - 2005

To: Hr. Per Lindquis..... Council
Hr. Tanar Ragna... Deputy Communications Officer
From Dr. Marvin Cancle
RE: The Hanso Life Extension Project

Mr Lindquist,

It appears that meo..ccal desease is has run it's course .... Tunisia facility.
While standard antibiotic treatment had been ineffective against ... the desease
massive antibiotic treatment immediately before exposure have proven effective at retarding and even preventing infection.

A fortuitous discover was made immediately after the first of the MRI scans of the
Theta and Omnikron groups. While the MRI scans showed no.... irregularities, some
subjects reported a warm sensation along their spine, expecially near the base of the cranium.

After the tests, at the 08.00 blood screening, a sharp decrease in infection was noticed.
Dr. Pev..nie ordered an immediate spinal tap which also yielded exciting results.

It did not take so long to link the MRI scan with the decrease in infectant. More scans were ordered and by 23.00 that night the disease was what we assume to be remission.

Unfortunately, no matter how intense or how long we exposed patients to high intensity magnetic waveswe were unable to remove the disease completely. We can only send the disease into a state of dormancy. Without op...... magnetic treatment ..... ...
re....re days or months later.

Namaste,

Dr. Marvin Hanso <huh???>
CHO Executive Committee" </huh???>
100%
I apologize. I think the memo I posted above was originally posted by drosing & I'm not exactly sure where drosing got it. There is mention that this memo may have been fake. I am trying to look into this further and work at the same time.

Desert Bear = Bunny 15 It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.
***
And while we don't know for sure the work going on in the Orchid station, it's pretty safe to say it involves some aspect of time. Now that question is. Is it Marty Mcfly Time travel i.e. past and future. Or away to go in and out of dimensions/portal like a door. Could be the Polar bear wondered it's way to the Orchid station and went through the portal door into Tunsnia.
***
To me, the Hydra Polar Bear incident seems very familiar to what happened with the rabbit in the Orchid Station. Teleportation/duplication of some sort.
I also think being shown the Hydra station insignia was key. It tells us that this Polar Bear came from the Hydra station, which is from our Lostie's island, not from another station in Tunisia. Not that I don't think Dharma could have had a station in Tunisia, but I don't think they would have 2 stations in 2 different places named the same. To me, the Polar Bear having the Hydra insignia means it's from the Island.
First thing I thought of was that rabbit.. not sure how it all relates just yet, though I don't see it supporting or proving time travel. For now, it seems to be to more indicative of dimensions or a portal - not different times.. as in 2008 vs 2006 or 2008 vs 1998 -- more like Point A-a or Point A-b with both points being geographicly the same, but located in totally different areas.. for example.. mirrored.. where I'm currently in NY on Feb 8th, 2008 in the winter... and you are currently in NY on Feb 8th, 2008 in the summer. mirrors..

Now, anyone who says there is no time travel on Lost should not even be responded to anymore. Its a confirmed fact.

Please provide a direct quote from TPTB if you are going to state that anything on this show is a "confirmed fact." I've never heard this confirmed. (Desmond's flashes are not confirmation that he actually time travelled.)

But I fully agree with everything else in your post.

Desert Bear = Bunny 15
It just 'appeared' in Tunisia, like the bunny in the Orchid vid.
But dont ask me why.

Yes but while bunny #15 reappeared in a bookcase the poor polar bear rematerialized inside solid rock. Ouch. I think two things are at work here. Once is time travel and the other is transportation. I think they were trying to use some sort of "time travel/temporal shift" to transport living beings.

So the bear was not a contemporary of the rock layer. It had not been transported back in time, died and become a fossil in a rock layer. It had just been "transported" there in the nineteen eighties and unearthed in 2004. Why polar bears? Because they needed a more human sized experimental animal? Maybe Dharma didn't design the technology that transported the bear. Maybe it was just a natural occurrence and one of the Dharma bears wandered into it by mistake.

Then Dharma used that portal/force/whatever to transport people to the island. Did anyone buy Ethan's explanation of why Juliet had to be sedated for the trip or really believe the natives used the sub to come and go? The Looking Glass station, the Swan station, the Orchid station, the "incident", the turning of the failsafe key and Desmond's trip to the past are all involved in this in some way. I just don't know how. :confused: My wild guess is that people are teleported via the Looking Glass station and from there the sub brings them to the barracks. Energy harnessed from the Swan powered the experiments at the Orchid that tried to focus/magnify this teleportation ability .

When the scientists needed an animal with a larger mass than number 15 the result was a polar bear encased in rock.

why was it an ancient collar? i didnt really see anything ancient about it.
Exactly. if that polar bear had been there for more than a few hundred years, wouldnt the collar be more worn out than that? Theres no way of telling how long that bear has been there. But it sure is interesting.

I think the desert was the site of a past Dharma station. I think Dharma had stations in several places throughout the earth. Maybe they were experimenting with the bears in the desert before they sent them on to the Hydra station on the island.

Dont know it proves 'time' travel but...

Maybe someone can give an answer to this:

Since the polar bones are white and essentially intact, which means recent death and the dirt around it was gravel; it was not embedded in rock:

What if this polar bear is the same bear that Sawyer shot?

can someone run with this line of thought? b/c we know that's not an ancient skeleton more like a 90 day skeleton covered with dirt.;)

I agree with most of you. Based on the Orchid video, I think that bunnies = polar bears to DHARMA as well and the collar was a method of tracking the animal like the way biologists tag animals to better understand the way they move/migrate. Here they are tagging bears to see where they end up in the past/future.

Even if it's simply a matter of Dharma having had a research station there, why would it be such a big deal to Charlotte to uncover a polar bear there? What is the practical significance of verifying that Dharma was doing research on polar bears there? Why would they bother burying a polar bear in the dirt when there are easier ways to dispose of it? No, I think there's something more going on that this.
I don't believe there is time travel going on, per se, but maybe time displacement. There is a subtle difference.

Did anyone see the movie The Prestige, starring Hugh Jackman? It was a while back for me, so forgive me if I screw up some of the details. In it, Jackman's character commissions Nicola Tesla to build a transporting machine, but the machine doesn't work quite as expected. What it actually does is produce clones. This is discovered while testing the device on a hat. The hat doesn't disappear. If I recall, everyone thinks the machine is broken, only to discover that the hat is simply being cloned, and the cloned hat materializing in a different location -- outside the building.

The island, or some device on it, may have the capability of doing something similar, making clones appear out of thin air at random locations all over the globe. The polar bear might have been the result of DHARMA's tests of that device back in the 60s -- a clone of the island bear magically materializing in Tunisia, collar and all.

ETA: For the record, I feel the condition of the collar to be a strike against time travel.

i like where yo are going with this, imagine in the end of lost they discover hundreds of themselves.....what if the island is waiting for the correct version of each person on the island? mebe the smoke is the essence of those that died on the island like mebe it is 4 jacks 8 kates 15 hurleys 16 sharons 23 boones and 42 charlies (kidding about the numbers) but really, what if in the end there is just adam and eve, everyone else dies with all their copies except for the one male and one female of the chosen. yeah i am rambling but man oh man i think whatever happens the last season is going to make our heads spin in a dark vs light, good vs evil battle of many dimensional copies all coming to do battle with eachother imagine 300 lockes vs 300 sawyers all a different shade of good and bad but none the same as the next. explains 2 mikhails methinks. the hydra is a multi dimentional portal kind of like the dark mirror on stargate sg1. imagine that in every dimensional world the topography is a little different like china is 300 miles to the left of where it is in our world or mebe japan has twice the land mass etc...would explain why the polar bear got to the middle of africa....

I agree, it's a tie in to the Orchid Video.

I also think being shown the Hydra station insignia was key. It tells us that this Polar Bear came from the Hydra station, which is from our Lostie's island, not from another station in Tunisia. Not that I don't think Dharma could have had a station in Tunisia, but I don't think they would have 2 stations in 2 different places named the same. To me, the Polar Bear having the Hydra insignia means it's from the Island.


I tend to agree that it's probably from the same station, but there's no reason that
Dharma couldn't have used the Hydra to refer to the project rather than the station
itself. There could be a lot of Hydra stations across the world all engaged in the same
sort of research. In some ways that makes more sense than assuming that every
single station has a unique insignia - if you believe there are stations off the island that is.

I'm on board with teleportation and believe the others were continuing Dharma's work by studying Walt who seems to have that ability. He also seems to be getting a handle on it as well (no longer speaking backwards).

According to TeenyThor, this is what happened:

The polar bear stepped into the "magic box" and was transported to Tunisia.

Here's the back story as told by TeenyThor at the dinner table. (I'm paraphrasing as best as I can remember.) Papa P. Bear or Jr. P. Bear did something bad. (Peed on the wood floors, over slept, i.e. hibernated a few days too long, or consumed all the porridge.)

At any rate, this P. Bear (Jr. or Sr. we don't know) did not want to incur the wraith of Mama P. Bear so he took off for a long walk and discovered the "magic box" by accidentally eavesdropping on Ben showing Locke how it worked and who was in it. After Ben and Co. left, P. Bear, tried to do the same thing.

P. Bear had never been to the Med so he wished himself to the Med and he ended up in Tunisia. After a few days of enjoying the sun and the sites and drinking root beer Icees on the beach, he died of a massive heat stroke in the dessert still wearing his P. Bear collar and Ray-Ban Wayfarers.

This P. Bear was not "smarter than the average bear." Not even close.

By the way, in Tunisia, there is also a Syndicate (X-Files) office. (Think bees and Dharma corn. Makes sense now, don't it?)
P. S. As to the question of time travel TeenyThor replied: "Time travel is not the answer to everything unknown."

I've not noticed anyone mentioning Charlotte's disregard for the Tunisian man and just fobbing him off with a massive wad of cash she obv had prepared for resistance.

It's almost as if she knew or expected what she was going to see and where to find it, she was in a hurry and just wanted to see the Dharma Hydra collar?

She is an anthropologist for the Dharma Initiative, I think. Which means she is more interested in humans than animals.

Anthropology is the study of the evolution, nature and future of human beings. I think she really wants to see Richard Alpert...

The polar bear has changed only place, NOT time.

It was teleported to the desert and died there, maybe at the 80's. It doesn't mean it went thru time.

In fact, whatever it is I propose produced a duplicate of the polar bear in Tunisia (probably back in the 60s) may also have produced a duplicate of Charlie off-island prior to his death, memories and all.

If that's true, one might ask what do you have to do to get "cloned" and live off island? I don't know. It could be a device, and it could be something supernatural. I can't recall Charlie having experienced anything unusual but dying, but who knows -- that itself may be the key: your ticket off the island is your death on the island, and those who are aware of that (i.e., Ms. Klugh, Patchy) have no fear of death.

Following that train of thought, would that mean Jack, Kate, and Hugo were all killed on the island, same as Charlie?

I just wanted to say I think this is an interesting theory.

I'll admit I have no idea what the answer is to the "island vs real world" riddle, but I've always wondered if there is some significance to death in one of those worlds not equal to the same thing as death in the other world. I don't think we're talking "The Matrix" here, that one or the other world is a simulation -- that would reduce the significance of death overall to the storyline, and the writers would probably also judge that as a cop-out -- and yet... something about the deaths in these two worlds keeps standing out as "not quite final". Why, I'm not sure, but I can't shake the notion that death on-island is really something similar to a ticket back to the "real" world. Seeing Charlie in Hugo's flash-forward was almost enough to convince me... if only Hugo wasn't so prone to hallucinations.

Sorry if this is off-topic. It does sort of go along with the "dead & buried polar bear on-island becomes long-lost buried artifact off-island" concept. BTW it sure would suck if Klugh or Patchy were confident they could get off island somehow and only to wind up becoming fossils somewhere in the long-lost past.

Incidentally, the Losties' buried dead vs others' funeral-pyre-at-sea scene would seem to support your theory, if the Others wouldn't want Coleen to travel to the "real" world.

No way...I think all it proved was that Dharma has been around for a long time, doing their expiriments all over the world. I never once thought it proved time travel.

Not watching Nova, but watching Lost, whose viewers comb through the show for clues and whose producers are too crafty to stretch believability by having bleach white polar bear bones and portions of a leather collar representing something that has been there millions of years. Narrative aside, this dig, to me, does not represent support for the "island resides in the past and becomes part of Tunisia" theory.


I completely agree. I can't see this show succumbing to such an improbable scenario like that when fans scan screencaps for miniature dates and text.

It was teleported to the desert and died there, maybe at the 80's. It doesn't mean it went thru time.
I agree. I think teleportation was hinted in the Orchid video.

Has it been proposed that the reason why there was a polar bear in Tunisia might be because Dharma had to transport such specimens from the North Pole to the island and they were using Tunisia as a connecting point?
Perhaps the bear died for some reason in Tunisia and somebody left it there, on purpose or not?

There was a theory floating around DarkUFO based on the ARG saying that the island might be close to Santorini, which is pretty close to Tunisia. Interesting, ugh?

Or perhaps they were importing the polar bears from a zoo in Tunisia?

Or somebody put that there to be found by Charlotte?

Even when I am pretty fond of Time 'travel' theories, I don't think (so far) that this particular case is the result of such thing.

If the bones had been human and found with a Dharma/Hydra id bracelet near by, would people be saying aha time travel and or teleportation? Or would we be saying, it looks like Dharma may have done research at this location or perhaps travled through here on the way to the island?

The only thing I see the bear bones proving is that a polar bear died.

In reply to Charlotte's treatment of the Tunisian man and her discovery of the polar bear: I am reminded of Indiana Jones and the Lost Ark.

How did Indy know? The Nazis (dharma? tunisian gov't?) were digging in the dessert and somebody spilled the beans. So when Indy (charlotte) arrives, he already knows he's going to find the well of souls (the polar bear), sneaks right past the guards (charlotte bribes), has already met with the "bible experts" (dharma experts) before his trip, so he has all the clues and what hole to stick the pole in (where to find the collar).

He even had a run-in with an Asian man (ha ha) who tried to steal the medallion with the "numbers" (:eek2:) engraved on the back, which would give the location of the ark (island, bear, transporter, what have you), and one of his friends was captured by a frenchman! (Danielle....okay, she has nothing to do with Charlotte, but it's fun...)

I agree. I think teleportation was hinted in the Orchid video.
Teleportation? Really? I'm not so sure... Anyway, what's the Orchid video?

From what i drew from the desert flashback it proves that the groups have traveled in the past. The polar bear had a hydra collar. Seems like the desert site was the island in the future. Would be interesting to see what else is out there. Just a thought.

Not sure time travel is proven.
After all we do know for certain that the polar bears were on the Island with the Hydra station in cages. When the Losties arrived they encountered a polar bear on their island. Which means the bears physically moved to the other island, by a boat, swam etc.

Perhaps an experiment gone bad forced the bears to removed, dumped and hidden.

Sure, nothing stays buried very long in LOST, but the middle of a dessert seems like a good place to bury something to me. It's remote and unassuming.

I'm sure whoever placed it there, didn't expect it to be found, but it's a great vehicle to move the show forward and put it in a new light.

DHARMA, OFF THE ISLAND?!

that was my WTF moment.

I took the scene like Charlotte knew it was there. She found what she was looking for.
In regards to the DHARMA find, I think it only proves DHARMA exists off-island also, and that they used to keep a polar bear to test its ability to withhold extreme conditions.

And it seems didn't work as it is dead. On the island however, it seems like they have found the answer as a polar bear is living on the island.

Actually, the polar bear proves the hollow earth theory. He crawled out of one of the many tunnels which lead to the Island underneath the North Pole. That's why Charlotte wanted to "open it up."

I don't think the polar bear in the desert proves time travel, teleportation, Hollow Earth, or any such theories.

I think it is clear that one of Charlotte's goals is to determine whether the polar bear in Tunisia is related to polar bears on the island.

Toward that end I would submit this - that the polar bear in Tunisia was the same age as the bears on the island - perhaps the same litter. And Dharma separated the bear to Tunisia to see or quantify the effects of anti-aging that the island had!

The bear in Tunisia was the control, and it is long dead. If Charlotte can prove that the island bears were born around the same time - we have concrete proof about the speed of aging on Lost Island.

So in my opinion - time anomalies, yes. Time travel, no.

Toward that end I would submit this - that the polar bear in Tunisia was the same age as the bears on the island - perhaps the same litter. And Dharma separated the bear to Tunisia to see or quantify the effects of anti-aging that the island had!

The bear in Tunisia was the control, and it is long dead. If Charlotte can prove that the island bears were born around the same time - we have concrete proof about the speed of aging on Lost Island.

So in my opinion - time anomalies, yes. Time travel, no.

Nice theory.

I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand that the bear is just a bear in Africa. The location of the bear is not any stranger than finding bears in a tropical jungle. It makes sense that the bears are being transported from their natural habitat into different environments for testing.

No need to delve into a hollow earth, time travel, island mass changing explanations.

I don't know why it is so hard for people to understand that the bear is just a bear in Africa.
Please remember that until the answers are given, all our guesses -- even yours -- are just theories, however more plausible yours may be.

i dont think the bear proves time theory, but there were about six other things in the show that do...