I thought it was quite telling that Sawyer backed off killing Ben (the first time) after he looked at Hurley and get the "no" signal. That, combined with last week's speech, tell me Hurley is really the leader of that group. Yes, they will follow Locke to the barracks for now, but they don't trust him at all. This could also be why Hurley felt so guilty in the FF, because he knows how instrumental he was in the actions of so many other survivors.

I thought it was quite telling that Sawyer backed off killing Ben (the first time) after he looked at Hurley and get the "no" signal. That, combined with last week's speech, tell me Hurley is really the leader of that group. Yes, they will follow Locke to the barracks for now, but they don't trust him at all. This could also be why Hurley felt so guilty in the FF, because he knows how instrumental he was in the actions of so many other survivors.



I don`t think so!

Well I don't know that Sawyer backed off because Hurley is the leader....it's just that he's more trusted then Locke and his word in terms of what's right and what's wrong carries more weight than Locke. People follow Locke because they believe he knows what he's doing...but they still don't really respect him...But Hurley is such a 'good' guy that he commands that kind of respect

Um ok, do you want to say more or just leave it at that? :rolleyes:

Edit: Sorry QE, your post snuck in between there.

I think Hurley is important in ways we don't know yet. Notice the looks Locke and Ben exchanged when he said he has seen the shack.

I guess they weren't expecting that one... Maybe Hurley is really the one Jacob wants to talk to, and is just as connected to the island as Locke? His visions last week telling him to go back tell me he is more instrumental than we know.

I disagree with Hurley as leader.

However, both Ben and Locke took notice when he said the cabin was in the other direction -- Hurley is SPECIAL TOO!!!

I thought it was quite telling that Sawyer backed off killing Ben (the first time) after he looked at Hurley and get the "no" signal. That, combined with last week's speech, tell me Hurley is really the leader of that group. Yes, they will follow Locke to the barracks for now, but they don't trust him at all. This could also be why Hurley felt so guilty in the FF, because he knows how instrumental he was in the actions of so many other survivors.I was actually discussing this with someone before the show aired tonight -- mainly about whether Hurley felt bad about going with Locke (as he told Jack) or if he felt bad about convincing a large group to do the same.

The fact that he has seen the cabin now, too, seems to imply that he is become more important in some way. Maybe he'll meet Jacob?

I'm not sure he would ever be a direct "leader" but he is becoming more influential.

I think Sawyer just trusts Hurley a little more than he trusts Locke right now.

Yeah, that was great when Locke and Ben both took note of Hurley's mention of the cabin. I wonder what Jacob wants with Hurley? I'll be happy to see a bigger storyline play out for him. And Jorge seems up to the challenge; I especially like the darker Hugo we saw in the flashforwards last week. He was brilliant in the premiere.

Anyways, more on topic, I dont know that he's their leader, but I agree with jennylee that because of his sway with the camp (and his empassioned speech about Charlie), these are the very days (or weeks) that Hurley will come to regret in the future. They do follow him, in a sense and he is perhaps, in some way, leading them into danger in some form.

I think Hurley is important in ways we don't know yet. Notice the looks Locke and Ben exchanged when he said he has seen the shack.

I guess they weren't expecting that one... Maybe Hurley is really the one Jacob wants to talk to, and is just as connected to the island as Locke? His visions last week telling him to go back tell me he is more instrumental than we know.

Yeah Locke and Ben were clearly surprised that Hurley saw the cabin. I thought anyone could see the cabin if they knew where it was, but that only special people could see/hear Jacob. Obviously, though, even being able to see the cabin is something special. And since Hurley found it on his own, he might be more important than Locke and Ben.

I don't think Sawyer really trusts Locke, maybe he just believes that Locke is on the right track in terms of these freighties and Jack is not? I'm not so sure if Hurley is the leader - but he definitely has a say in what's going on. And I'm really curious as to why he comes to regret it.

I thought it was quite telling that Sawyer backed off killing Ben (the first time) after he looked at Hurley and get the "no" signal. That, combined with last week's speech, tell me Hurley is really the leader of that group. Yes, they will follow Locke to the barracks for now, but they don't trust him at all. This could also be why Hurley felt so guilty in the FF, because he knows how instrumental he was in the actions of so many other survivors.


I noticed that too, jenny! I think you're right about the being part of the reason Hurley feels so guilty in TBOTE. I also thought it was pretty cool that Sawyer is using Hurley as his 'true north", so to speak. If he's ever looked to someone else for a reading on a moral compass, we haven't seen it. I think Hurley might find out just how "sucky" being a leader can be though.

Ever since TTID Hurley has definitely been more assertive and more important -- higher self worth.

This is why LOST is so astounding -- awesome character development from top to bottom. Just when you think you have a favorite it shifts and so on and so forth until they all become your favorite.

Just unbelievable storytelling . . . .

I think Hurley is important in ways we don't know yet. Notice the looks Locke and Ben exchanged when he said he has seen the shack.

Yes. I was going to start a thread about that, but you've spared me the trouble.

The two "No, I'm Speshuler!" boys engaged in their little :censored: contest are now aware of another contender. Wait till they find out Jack's Daddy's ghost sent him on a mission the day they crashed (mobisode 13). :24:

I think Sawyer just trusts Hurley a little more than he trusts Locke right now.

Si. As we saw last week, Sawyer views Hurley as a FRIEND.

I think Sawyer just trusts Hurley a little more than he trusts Locke right now.

Well, I think nobody really trusts Locke right now. IMO people who joined his group did it only for Hurley's speech regarding Charlie, at least Hurley and Claire.

Thanks for all the thoughts all. :) Hurley certainly has come a long, long way. For me, even when he was trying to trick Sawyer into a leadership role last season, I thought of Hurley as the emotional leader of their camp. Locke may be able to physically lead them to the barracks and threaten and scare them into going with him, but Hurley was their real motivator. IMO of course!

Sawyer and Hurley have bonded and with all that Sawyer's been through, I think he looks to Hurley as someone with a sense of right/wrong that isn't muddled up with all the torture and murder stuff. Sawyer's this close to whacking Ben for payback for everything from thinking he had a pacemaker to the mindgame attempt regarding Kate. Sawyer's in a bad place right now so looking to Hurley might be the thing that helps him stay balanced, at least more balanced than he'd be on his own.

Hurley as the leader? Not yet for me - but he is a voice that the group respects and perhaps in time he will take on more of a leadership role.

I think most of the group are looking a bit at Hurley for guidance because he's the one who essentially started the split of the group. I don't think any of them followed Locke, but rather Hurley.
I don't think Hurley wants to be the leader of anybody, though (not that Jack wanted that, either :D). But last season, when the group was leaderless because they were all off on various Mission Impossibles in the jungle, he turned to Sawyer and tried to push him into a role where he accepted his role in the group.
I don't think Hurley has it in him to leada group the way Jack does. That doesn't mean Jack is the ideal leader, but I think Hurley would have a much harder time making hard decisions with grave results for others. I doubt he'd willingly take a leadership position.
In his speech he just expressed his own opinion and made a decision - he decided to put the information Charlie died acquiring over the obvious desire of the group to go and find their possible recuers.
As for Sawyer - I think he didn't look at Hurley in search for a decision as to whether or not kill Ben. He looked at Alex first, after Locke mentioned her. And when his eyes met Hurley, I don't think Hurley was even signalling him "no". To me the headshake looked as if Hurley was thinking "Don't do this, dude" and the headshake just expressed that thought.

I thought it was quite telling that Sawyer backed off killing Ben (the first time) after he looked at Hurley and get the "no" signal.


With that eppy last night, TPTB further cemented Hurley as the moral compass of the group, if not just the leader.

I agree with kerstin80 on this one.

Locke has the plan, but I agree the other Team Locke members look to Hurley as the soul of the team, so to speak. I doubt anybody would have joined Locke's team if it wasn't for Hurley stepping over the the line first. And the little Sawyer-Hurley interaction last night mentioned by the thread starter was another instance of Hurley's power within the team. It'll be interesting where they go with this.

I think Hurley would have a much harder time making hard decisions with grave results for others. I doubt he'd willingly take a leadership position.
In his speech he just expressed his own opinion and made a decision - he decided to put the information Charlie died acquiring over the obvious desire of the group to go and find their possible recuers.

Locke is responsible for their lives and responsible to make those decisions and they expect him to and have chosen to follow him so yeah, that's who died and made him king. Everytime people whine about Jack and who put in charge, the answer is the same.

It is true that nobody followed Locke, they followed Charlie's message and Hurley. I'd say every member of that group trusts Hurley more than they trust Locke, but Locke's the one in charge. Ben's the puppet master and he's the one who wields the real power there, but as far as the losties are concerned, Locke's the leader.

I do agree that Hurley isn't necessarily the 'leader', however, he is much more important than I think anyone gives credit for. It's been so long that we don't think about it anymore, but Hurley was the ones with the numbers. He was the first one with a true 'connection' to the island which originated from off-island. Now we find out he is one of the ones who leaves. Remember, Locke "isn't who we thought he was", according to Ben. This was a power play by Ben, obviously, at the time, but maybe both he and Locke can talk to Jacob, but like it has been suggested, the "one" that they have been waiting for who Jacob wants, is Hurley.

Locke wasn't summoned by Jacob, he was brought to him by Ben. Hurley on the other hand was just walking in the middle of the forest when the cabin came to him

You know, for the sake of the argument, I was thinking through the possibility of Hurley being the leader.

Then I remembered when the others took Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. Hurley was there, too, but they sent him home. It was kindof weird how dismissive the others were of Hurley, but I just blew it off because I just figured he didn't have anything to offer the others, and he wasn't really a threat, so they let him go.

But now, we know that he has a connection with the island, Jacob, the shack, and not to forget, the numbers. He didn't have to be SHOWN the shack by Ben or anybody, like Locke did. And he knew the numbers prior to arriving on the island. And he didn't "struggle" to see Jacob, like Locke did. I don't think Hurley knew what he was seeing, but just the fact that he saw, and heard, what he did, is enough to prove his connection to the island.

So, is it possible that, knowing as much about the Losties as Ben seems to know, and being at least SOMEWHAT in touch with the island, that Ben recognized Hurley as a potential threat to his position (although, perhaps underestimated this position), but chose to stay neutral regarding him because no one else would recognize it (Hurley doesn't stand out as a natural leader) and encourage/press him into leadership? Hurley could be a bigger threat to Ben if Ben made a fuss over him than if he just let him be? So instead of keeping him locked up like he did with the other three, they let him go.

I agree with the idea that Hurley doesn't WANT to be a leader. It's not what he's drawn to. But, it would be interesting if it turns out that he has a bigger connection to the island and the big picture in general (which I think is inevitable from what we've learned so far)...

Thinking out loud...thots?

You know, for the sake of the argument, I was thinking through the possibility of Hurley being the leader.

Then I remembered when the others took Kate, Jack, and Sawyer. Hurley was there, too, but they sent him home. It was kindof weird how dismissive the others were of Hurley, but I just blew it off because I just figured he didn't have anything to offer the others, and he wasn't really a threat, so they let him go.

But now, we know that he has a connection with the island, Jacob, the shack, and not to forget, the numbers. He didn't have to be SHOWN the shack by Ben or anybody, like Locke did. And he knew the numbers prior to arriving on the island. And he didn't "struggle" to see Jacob, like Locke did. I don't think Hurley knew what he was seeing, but just the fact that he saw, and heard, what he did, is enough to prove his connection to the island.

So, is it possible that, knowing as much about the Losties as Ben seems to know, and being at least SOMEWHAT in touch with the island, that Ben recognized Hurley as a potential threat to his position (although, perhaps underestimated this position), but chose to stay neutral regarding him because no one else would recognize it (Hurley doesn't stand out as a natural leader) and encourage/press him into leadership? Hurley could be a bigger threat to Ben if Ben made a fuss over him than if he just let him be? So instead of keeping him locked up like he did with the other three, they let him go.

I agree with the idea that Hurley doesn't WANT to be a leader. It's not what he's drawn to. But, it would be interesting if it turns out that he has a bigger connection to the island and the big picture in general (which I think is inevitable from what we've learned so far)...

Thinking out loud...thots?

I like your line of thinking

I agree with hskr_n_hi with his theory too...

Hurley started out more as a comical character in seasons 1 and 2, and seemed to have been cursed. But that all changed in the Season 3 episode, "Tricia Tanaka Is Dead", when Hurley's luck changed and he was able to get the Dharma van running. This climaxed in the season finale when he drove over the others and "saved everyone." I guess that should have been a tip-off to us that his character would become more important in season 4. He has always been one of my favorite characters and so i am happy to see the emphasis shift a little from Ben, Locke and Jack to Hurley.

Yeah Locke and Ben were clearly surprised that Hurley saw the cabin. I thought anyone could see the cabin if they knew where it was, but that only special people could see/hear Jacob. Obviously, though, even being able to see the cabin is something special.
Yeah, that was a big "hey!" moment for me. On the personal growth/change side, I loved that Sawyer was willing to take a cue from Hurley. Who would have ever thought that would happen?! He's clearly developed quite a bit of respect for Hurley (I guess calling him Hugo now shows that too). Also, in the past few epis (end of last season & last week) Hurley was feeling useless...everyone implying that his help wasn't needed, he'd be in the way,etc. It's just interesting to me that the dynamic has changed.

If he is a leader why did they tie him up and leave him in a closet?

Dude, you need to spoiler font that like I did in the quote. That hasn't been shown on the show yet and I don't want you to get in trouble with the mods right off the bat.

I think that the reason that they are listening to Hurley so much is that they really don't know what to believe or what to do.Hurley isn't leading so much as having a great deal of influence. No one would have followed Locke unless Hurley had convinced them.Hurley is sort of Locke's P.R. and Sawyer is his muscle.

As for Hurley being a leader. That may not be his choice(it wasn't Jack's with the losties and it seems as if Ben was chosen by Jacob to lead the others -- he certainly wasn't their leader when he came to the island).

We still don't know about Charlie and who he was speaking for when he told Hurley that they needed him -- who is they? The remaining losties on the island? The others? The newbies? Who exactly was Charlie representing?It's not clear.

If the only people that can lead the others are those that can see Jacob and communicate with him the island may be calling Hurley back to lead them which would mean that Ben and Locke may be deceased. Leading in that respect would simply be transferring orders from Jacob to the rest of the group.

So, is it possible that, knowing as much about the Losties as Ben seems to know, and being at least SOMEWHAT in touch with the island, that Ben recognized Hurley as a potential threat to his position (although, perhaps underestimated this position), but chose to stay neutral regarding him because no one else would recognize it (Hurley doesn't stand out as a natural leader) and encourage/press him into leadership? Hurley could be a bigger threat to Ben if Ben made a fuss over him than if he just let him be? So instead of keeping him locked up like he did with the other three, they let him go.
I love your whole post. You said it so much better than I could have by tying in Hurley's island connection.

So maybe my thread title wasn't the best one - Hurley's not the "leader" -- but what is he exactly? I like that someone called him their "moral compass." I don't think Locke can compete for that role! :biggrin:

Dude, you need to spoiler font that like I did in the quote. That hasn't been shown on the show yet and I don't want you to get in trouble with the mods right off the bat.

We would really, really appreciate it if you would report posts that need to be spoiler fonted instead of posting in the thread. You never know when or if the original poster will be back in the thread and see your post, and a lot of posters can be spoilt in the meantime (over two hours in this case!). Thank you.

I like the title "Moral Compass" as well, jenny! Which it itself, connotes being some kind of leader.

The fact that he has seen the cabin now, too, seems to imply that he is become more important in some way. Maybe he'll meet Jacob?

To take this further, if Hurley actually met Jacob BEFORE Locke (and Ben) did...

Locke has the plan, but I agree the other Team Locke members look to Hurley as the soul of the team, so to speak. I doubt anybody would have joined Locke's team if it wasn't for Hurley stepping over the the line first. And the little Sawyer-Hurley interaction last night mentioned by the thread starter was another instance of Hurley's power within the team. It'll be interesting where they go with this.

If TPTB end up exploring Hurley as a potential leader, I wonder how Locke will feel if/when he finds out. It might bring out how Locke truly feels about some of the other people, because he wants to stay on the island, and other people, like Hurley, want off the island.

Hurley has become Sawyer's friend. He isn't seen by Sawyer as a leader in any way shape or form. I don't think anyone else sees Hurley as a leader, at the moment anyway.

Hurley has become Sawyer's friend. He isn't seen by Sawyer as a leader in any way shape or form. I don't think anyone else sees Hurley as a leader, at the moment anyway.

You're right about Hurley becoming James' friend. I wouldn't be so sure about Sawyer not seeing him as a moral leader or something like that. I wonder if they will continue this trend with Hurley or not? Should be interesting...

Yeah, that was great when Locke and Ben both took note of Hurley's mention of the cabin. I wonder what Jacob wants with Hurley? I'll be happy to see a bigger storyline play out for him. And Jorge seems up to the challenge; I especially like the darker Hugo we saw in the flashforwards last week. He was brilliant in the premiere.

Anyways, more on topic, I dont know that he's their leader, but I agree with jennylee that because of his sway with the camp (and his empassioned speech about Charlie), these are the very days (or weeks) that Hurley will come to regret in the future. They do follow him, in a sense and he is perhaps, in some way, leading them into danger in some form.

Seems like to me that they have always been telling us how important Hurley is. He was the ticket taker, ushering people to their "destiny" in Locke's dream. He has seen the shack. I still believe he "caused" himself to win the lottery, and also made the Dharma drop of food appear on the island. Maybe the image we saw earlier of Hurley in robes can be associated with Moses, leading his people to freedom.....but I don't think that is necessarily what Hurley is leading them towards. Because of his own feelings of lack of self-worth, I think he doesn't even understand the power he has at this time. I believe his removal from the island is more of necessity for the newcomers, than it is salvation for Hurley. Why else would Charlie contact him and no one else?

Seems like to me that they have always been telling us how important Hurley is. He was the ticket taker, ushering people to their "destiny" in Locke's dream. He has seen the shack. I still believe he "caused" himself to win the lottery, and also made the Dharma drop of food appear on the island. Maybe the image we saw earlier of Hurley in robes can be associated with Moses, leading his people to freedom.....but I don't think that is necessarily what Hurley is leading them towards. Because of his own feelings of lack of self-worth, I think he doesn't even understand the power he has at this time. I believe his removal from the island is more of necessity for the newcomers, than it is salvation for Hurley.

Good points, Nobody! (It seems funny writing that. :grin:)
Why else would Charlie contact him and no one else?

We don't know, yet, that Hurley is the only one that Charlie's appeared to. ;)