Just speculation on my part but I think their lying and there is no freighter.

Disgree.

Locke (throgh Walt), Ben, Naomi, the freighties all said there is a boat.

I thought they'd need something big enough to fit a helicoptor on. Unless there is land nearby the island in the "real world." :eek2:

Ben said he had a man on the boat...so unless he's lying (which he does do from time to time ;)) there must be a boat that he managed to infiltrate

Plus, they were communicating with someone on something (George or whatever his name was). It could be something else, but its likely a boat.

There is definetly no boat. it seemed to staged. why was Miles lying there waiting for Jack like that??

If there is no freighter, then either

a) there must be a land mass close to the Island within flying distance of a helicopter,
b) there is another unexplored area of the Island containing the facilities from which these characters originate, or
c) the helicopter and/or the people are an elaborate illusion of some kind.

C is pushing it, even for LOST. They're not going to spend time building up new characters and giving them flashbacks just to reveal that it is all a manifestation of the Island.

B is just as unlikely. Ben would know about them, and nothing in his behavior would indicate even the most elaborate deceptions is taking place.

A is the most possible of these scenarios, but still highly unlikely; furthermore, if the Island is within flying distance of another land mass, it's basically the same difference from a story standpoint.

So much evidence supports the presence of an actual boat that the writers would have to do a tremendous amount of backpedaling to explain if in fact it did not exist. To the topic creator, what is your evidence and what alternate explanation for the Freighties' presence do you offer?

Charlie said there was a boat, just not Penny's. There has to be a freighter or the helicopter wouldn't be able to get there.

I agree,there is no freighter.I find it hard to believe that you can get to the island via ordinary methods of transportation.815 only crashed because Des turned off the islands protection system just as 815 was overhead,and I don't entirely trust Rousseaus account of how she got there.Julliete did not get to the island solely by sub....there would be no reason to drug her,unless it was to hide the true method of getting to the island.Desmond was unconscius and woke up on the beach.we don't know how long he was unconscious,its possible him and his boat were taken to the island by somebody unknown.

I believe the copter could have taken off anywhere on the planet(most likely somewehre near Portland) and through some unknown method almost instantly arrived at the island.

There has to be a freighter otherwise Ben would not have had any idea about Charlotte and the group. I want to say Michael is his mole on the freighter.

Ben had very specific knowledge of thier motives and thier lies to merely make a passable guess.

There has to be a freighter otherwise Ben would not have had any idea about Charlotte and the group. I want to say Michael is his mole on the freighter.

Ben had very specific knowledge of thier motives and thier lies to merely make a passable guess.


Well, he seemed VERY surprised when Naomi turned up.Had to hastily rearrange all his plans.

Abbadon was very specific that these 4 individuals HAD to go to the island.Its feasible that Ben and possible cohorts knew that Abaddon would choose these 4.

I believe the copter could have taken off anywhere on the planet(most likely somewehre near Portland) and through some unknown method almost instantly arrived at the island.


After seeing the screencaps of Naomi's phone, I wonder?

They may have arrived on the island the same way Eko's plane did...there has been speculation that Juliet was drugged to hide that they weren't actually traveling very far in the submarine. Maybe they can do the same with a helicopter?

Perhaps the reason Minkowski couldn't come to the phone was because he was noshing at Starbucks?
100%
Charlie said there was a boat, just not Penny's. There has to be a freighter or the helicopter wouldn't be able to get there.



Charlie said there was a boat because Naomi said there was a freighter. So far, is there any evidence that there is a freighter other than unreliable statements by questionable people? Ben may say he has a "man on the boat" because he doesn't want the Losties to know about whatever is really going on there.

The freighties knew immediately how to play their cards when Jack asked about the boat in TTLG.

I think so too, remember there was another copter that crashed while trying to bring Naomi. A freighter that has space for two helicopters? It must be huge.

Also, who was the pilot for that helicopter? Everyone seems to forget about the first helicopter.

If there's no freighter out there, then we need to stop calling them freighties ; ).
I'd bet the farm that there's some kind of "boat" out there, doesnt necessarily have to be a "freighter" ; ).



"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

LatestLostFan,
Very, very good point. :thumbsup:

I'd say either the Writers messed up, or that's a massive clue. Abbadon showed her the photos of the 4 team members, and Lapidus is clearly the Pilot for the group, so why wouldn't he have been the one to bring Naomi?

LatestLostFan,
Very, very good point. :thumbsup:

I'd say either the Writers messed up, or that's a massive clue. Abbadon showed her the photos of the 4 team members, and Lapidus is clearly the Pilot for the group, so why wouldn't he have been the one to bring Naomi?




Maybe he was drunk.
lol

"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Wow! interesting...
It kind of does appear to be off the coast of Cali or Oregon.

As discussed in the thread called "minkowski is in the US", the display on the sat phone (and why would you need a sat phone if there really were a ship off shore), indicates that the people they are talking to are back in Northern California.

Therefore, I think they are flying their helicopters in through the same wormhole that was being accessed by the Others, and by DHARMA, out of Portland Oregon. There is no boat!

Regardless, Ben's story about having a man on the ship is pure nonsense. They don't show Charlotte's reaction after he said, "because I have a man on their boat." But, if he DID have a man on their boat, the last thing he would do is admit it in front of Charlotte, therefore compromising him. However, saying it when he doesn't, causes paranoia and accusations on the boat that he's assuming exists. Furthermore, Naomi caught him completely by surprise, which wouldn't have happened if he had a man on the boat. He's had no opportunity with contact with anyone since then, so he knew all this biographical information on these four since before Naomi came. He may or may not have a source within Abbadon's organization, but he certainly hasn't had contact with them recently.

LatestLostFan,
Very, very good point. :thumbsup:

I'd say either the Writers messed up, or that's a massive clue. Abbadon showed her the photos of the 4 team members, and Lapidus is clearly the Pilot for the group, so why wouldn't he have been the one to bring Naomi?


Assuming that there is a "higher purpose" for the four new arrivals (not just a simple retrieval mission), it makes sense to keep Lapidus off of the helicopter with Naomi. Why not send them all over at once? Because Naomi was, presumably, chosen for her capability for this kind of mission, but perhaps not her 'special skill.' She was sent over to scout things out, but perhaps, the others didn't go along on the first mission because there was no guarantee that it was safe and they would survive the trip. (A fair assumption considering the outcome of helicopter 1.)

I tend to side with the Folks who think that this is not just a mission to get Ben, and instead, they've all been hand-picked for specific reasons. They need to be on the island - or at least someone wants them there for another purpose. It looks like Naomi may have been expendable whereas the other four were not. They sent her to make sure someone could definitely make it to the island and make contact.

Why Naomi didn't question Lapidus' absence from the first helicopter, I don't know. So far as she knew (so far as we saw in the FB), that was his purpose on the mission. I suppose we can only hold on and wait to see just how deep the rabbit hole goes...

First post from a newbie....

Anyway, I'm not recalling....did we actually see Naomi's helicopter crash? It was in trouble, she did bail out, but did it crash?

I don't see any reason to insist that Lapidus should have been on the first helicopter. He was part of a team...a team of four....that was on the second helicopter. Why send him on the first, when his team is to go in second? If Naomi was indeed a scout, it'd be a smooth move for them to get her AND the team's pilot wasted on the first mission!

I am still wondering why Naomi came in alone to begin with.
100%
Why would'nt more people bail out if it might crash, it's a lie.

First post from a newbie....

Anyway, I'm not recalling....did we actually see Naomi's helicopter crash? It was in trouble, she did bail out, but did it crash?

We didn't exactly see it. We heard it, heard it having trouble and then saw a big splash in the water.
Ben's comments seem confirm there is a boat, but if there isn't one than Penny's question "What boat?" could mean that she is part of the group and is looking for Des while the rest of the folks have their own agenda.
Could Ben have said "I have a man on their boat" just to gauge Charlotte's reaction? If there isn't one, would she fess up after hearing Ben say that?

The thing is, from what we saw with Abbadon, Naomi was far from a mere scout. She was going to be the one to keep Miles, Charlotte, Faraday and Lapidus alive. To get them in and out without anyone dying.

And then there's Miles' backwards speech to Naomi's dead body.
He seems to be telling her to "see it through".

Just on a practical note, helicopters don't carry that much fuel in them. There has to be a fuel source somewhere nearby. I do believe that there is a boat for this reason and because Ben directly states that he hs someone on their boat. If there was no boat, Charlotte likely would have blown his spot.

I don't think there is a boat, I think they are close to a larger land mass like the Pacific Northwest. The screencaps from the sat phones seem to show the connection is with Portland or somewhere near there. Also, from one of the teaser clips for 04x03 there is a potential clue:
Sayid says if he brings Charlotte back from Team Locke safely will Frank take him to the boat and Frank says if he brings Charlotte back safely he will take him off the island. NOT TO THE BOAT, BUT OFF THE ISLAND. Sound familiar? I don't know why the Losties would fall for it again?

No freighter?? But a fighter that size couldn't get this deep into space on its own! Look it's headed towards that small island! That's no island, that's a -------