If Ben didn't want Jack to contact the people on the freighter, and didn't want them to come to the island for fear of them killing everyone, then why didn't he just tell Jack all the information he told John in the first place? Does this suggest the possibility that he actually wanted them to come? And if so, why?

I think maybe he was stalling for as long as possible, and finally broke down and spewed all of it when it looked as though Locke was actually going to kill him.

Then again, Ben is a master manipulator, so who knows what's really going on inside of his head?

I think maybe he was stalling for as long as possible, and finally broke down and spewed all of it when it looked as though Locke was actually going to kill him.

Then again, Ben is a master manipulator, so who knows what's really going on inside of his head?

True, but if he had said all of this to Jack, there's the outside possibility that Jack would've believed him. Besides, Ben was very desperate at the time to keep them from getting to the island.

I love how Ben has ABSOLUTELY no power right now (he's being led around like a dog between his beat-downs for crying out loud) yet he continues to successfully screw with people (Jack, Sawyer, Alex, Locke, etc.)

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's leading events in the direction of his choosing...

Something fishy about Ben...


You're finally realizing this now?! :)

Just kidding around.

The answer is simple -- Ben is a prisoner. Knowledge is power and the only thing keeping him alive. He has to dole it out in doses until he can get free.


I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's leading events in the direction of his choosing...


I found it absolutely chilling when Sawyer said that Ben already knew how he was gonna do away with them. Chilling becasue I think Sawyer foreshadowed his own fate with that line.

If Ben didn't want Jack to contact the people on the freighter, and didn't want them to come to the island for fear of them killing everyone, then why didn't he just tell Jack all the information he told John in the first place? Does this suggest the possibility that he actually wanted them to come? And if so, why?

That bugged me so much in the season finale. If Ben really did want to stop Jack from contacting the freighter because they really were going to kill everyone, then he could have just given him the whole story. the fact that he didn't, led me to believe he was lying once again.

Now that we know Ben is their main target, it seems clearer to me. If Ben had told Jack "don't call that freighter because those people are after me", jack would have called them even faster!

True, but if he had said all of this to Jack, there's the outside possibility that Jack would've believed him. Besides, Ben was very desperate at the time to keep them from getting to the island.

Jack? Believe Ben? Ha! ;)

Jack? Believe Ben? Ha! ;)

It was all Ben had at the time. He was so desperate, begging them not to call the freighter...you'd think out of desperation he would've spewed everything to Jack. Not that Jack would've believed him, but it was all Ben had to go on. He was already trying to get Jack to believe him by saying they were all going to be killed...so why not take it further if he'd really been that desperate?

It was all Ben had at the time. He was so desperate, begging them not to call the freighter...you'd think out of desperation he would've spewed everything to Jack. Not that Jack would've believed him, but it was all Ben had to go on. He was already trying to get Jack to believe him by saying they were all going to be killed...so why not take it further if he'd really been that desperate?

Ben's like the devil -- he mixes truth with lies, and nothing he does is without some degree of pre-meditation. I really believe it was a stall tactic.

Ben's like the devil -- he mixes truth with lies, and nothing he does is without some degree of pre-meditation. I really believe it was a stall tactic.

Wait...I think I'm missing your point. What do you mean by "stall tactic"? How would this benefit him if he really didn't want the "Boaties" to get to the island?

I have so much love for snarky Ben right now, I'm less inclined to care. He made the whole episode for me.

But yeah, that bugged me immensely in the finale. If it's another mindfrak and Ben's trying to play both ends, then I'll be happy to see him do it because he's glorious to watch. If it's just another plot contrivance then... oh, screw it! I've been watching Lost for two years now.

I suppose if he knows Jack's gonna be even more adamant to call the Freighter if he knows it's Ben they're after, he'd want to parcel every crumb of information he can throw and use it to stay alive. Anybody surprised he picked Locke to toy with? ;)

All Ben has now are his wits and his knowledge. Either he "knows" everything that is going to happen and is just playing his part in the drama, or he doesn't know so he's hoarding information to be used as needed and playing it by ear.

Given Ben's self-proclaimed ability to persuade people, it is a wonder that nobody has gagged him by now! I would have put a sock in his mouth first thing after tying him up at the radio tower!

I found it absolutely chilling when Sawyer said that Ben already knew how he was gonna do away with them. Chilling becasue I think Sawyer foreshadowed his own fate with that line.

Excellent point it seems like Ben always finds himself being underestimated by Locke. I thought it was one of the most gripping lines of the night, and what a revelation by Sawyer if it does happen that way. You almost have to think he is right since Ben's crew aren't no where to be found so you know Richard is lying in wait with the rest of the Others to take back control.

Given Ben's self-proclaimed ability to persuade people, it is a wonder that nobody has gagged him by now! I would have put a sock in his mouth first thing after tying him up at the radio tower!

Jack sort of did when he yelled at the group in TTLG: "DON'T talk to him!" Because he knows what he's capable of.

Ben reminded me of Keyser Soze again tonight. I had that feeling when he was first playing meek Henry Gale from Miiiinnesooootta in the hatch back in season two.

Jack sort of did when he yelled at the group in TTLG: "DON'T talk to him!" Because he knows what he's capable of.


But why would he say "Hi i am Benjamin Linus" to Naomi he knew that her and her people were after him? Do you think he was trying to get a reaction of her to help Jack believe that he shouldn't be calling these people with the satellite phone?

All I can think of is the constant reminder of people double backing and creating dumming trails.. Ethan did it..Naomi.. this tells me one thing..
Ben could be too.. and I wouldnt put it past him.

I've often wondered why Ben couldn't be honest with the Losties from the start, or at least tell Jack he needed a surgeon to remove his tumor. Maybe Ben had to make sure first that the Losties weren't the "bad guys"? But he had detailed files of all of their lives. Ben has to have had contact with the outside world to obtain that info on all of them, yet, he had the communications jammed. Ben also knew all about the freight people.

I'd like to know where Richard Alpert is.


He would stand a better chance of surviving these freight people if he's be more upfront with Jack and the rest.

I just wanted to say that I love the title of this thread! As soon as I read it I cracked up. Of COURSE there's something fishy about Ben -- it is why I love to hate him --- he's always up to something and messing with somebody's mind. Just like Juliet said, "it could be that he wants to scare us, or it could be that they are coming to hurt us." Ben in a nutshell. (Yes, I realize that wasn't an exact quote).

You guys are right. Ben used the line "If you phone her boat, every single living person on this island will be killed" to try and prevent Jack and company from making the call, and then Ben would be free from harm (at least from the freighties).

More evidence that they really aren't going to kill everyone is when Ben told Sawyer he won't stand a chance with Kate if he leaves with the freighties. How can you leave with the freighties if they are going to kill everyone? Of course he was trying to get under Sawyer's skin, but don't you think his spy would've alerted him that they are planning to kill everyone?

Ben's just looking after himself, the natives, and the island, but now has to resort to other ways to convince the Losties that these new guys are bad news.

But why would he say "Hi i am Benjamin Linus" to Naomi he knew that her and her people were after him? Do you think he was trying to get a reaction of her to help Jack believe that he shouldn't be calling these people with the satellite phone?

You're right. "Hi, I'm Benjamin. I don't believe we've had the pleasure.." was part of his plan to break Naomi into showing her true objective. Then the Losties would know that their rescue was not the freighties primary objective. :biggrin:

You guys are right. Ben used the line "If you phone her boat, every single living person on this island will be killed" to try and prevent Jack and company from making the call, and then Ben would be free from harm (at least from the freighties).

More evidence that they really aren't going to kill everyone is when Ben told Sawyer he won't stand a chance with Kate if he leaves with the freighties. How can you leave with the freighties if they are going to kill everyone? Of course he was trying to get under Sawyer's skin, but don't you think his spy would've alerted him that they are planning to kill everyone?

I think Ben is telling the truth. He only made that crack to Sawyer because Sawyer thought they were going to get off the island. He wanted to get a hold of Sawyer's gun when Sawyer beat him up (he only picked fights with the people that had guns) . Ben was desperate to get Alex away from the area telling Daniella to take her and run. He knew about the gas masks. He couldn't risk having Alex with the natives because she was a traitor and probably wouldn't be safe there anymore either. She stood a better chance with her mother.

Ben's just looking after himself, the natives, and the island, but now has to resort to other ways to convince the Losties that these new guys are bad news.

You're right. "Hi, I'm Benjamin. I don't believe we've had the pleasure.." was part of his plan to break Naomi into showing her true objective. Then the Losties would know that their rescue was not the freighties primary objective. :biggrin:Yes. But I think Jack listened on some level. Then Charlie backed Ben up and Jack found those gas masks and some kind of hazardous material (probably nerve gas of some sort). Jack can be dense sometimes (particularly when a blond is involved;)) but he isn't stupid. If he doesn't come around, Sayid will. Sayid has great instincts.

I agree with the people saying that ben is only giving out little bits of info to stay alive.Ben has always been supremely confident (look back at when he was a prisoner in the swan he knew he would get out) of doing what he needs to survive.He also has a group of others walking to the temple right now so he must have a back up plan. His introduction yo naomi was just him being provaocative and seeing what peoples reactions were. Plus naomi may not know that the other boat people are after ben because out of the 5 people that came from the boat wouldnt naomi be the choice to have the picture of ben since she was the one abbadon thought would keep the other four alive

what if its a major effort for him to get off the island.. he is really good at pushing buttons, using opposite Psychology to get the right out come. things that bother me with him and juliet.. she never faultered when they discussed jack from the ? station.
when he professed his tatics, she never gave any indication that it was out of the normal.

Ben will do what it takes to get what he wants or needs to be done. He's the scarest of all the issues on that island.

I'd like to know where Richard Alpert is.


He went to the Temple (?) with Cindy, the kids, and all of those other folks.

I love how Ben has ABSOLUTELY no power right now (he's being led around like a dog between his beat-downs for crying out loud) yet he continues to successfully screw with people (Jack, Sawyer, Alex, Locke, etc.)

I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he's leading events in the direction of his choosing...

That's precisely why Jack said, "I don't trust him with anyone but me". Ben is a master manipulator, he makes Manson look like a chump.