Are we 100% sure that myle's,dan's and charlotte's flashbacks were indeed flashbacks and not flashforwards?

this seems like a stupid question but dan was crying like he was sorry for what he had done and charlotte didn't seem shocked that the polar bear had a dharma collar and was in the desert. and was the woman that myles did a "reading" for possibly walt's grandmother?

Yeah, they were definitely flashbacks. We were being shown the Freighties' lives prior to their being recruited for this mission.

Remember, Naomi had told the Losties that 815 had been found at the bottom of the ocean with no survivors. Since Dan was watching the news clip of 815 being salvaged (which was what Naomi was talking about), we can deduce that it was definitely something that happened prior to the expedition.

oh yeah! i forgot that naomi said that, i thought she just said something along the lines of like "your alive?" not about it being found at the bottom of the ocean.

this seems like a stupid question but dan was crying like he was sorry for what he had done and charlotte didn't seem shocked that the polar bear had a dharma collar and was in the desert. and was the woman that myles did a "reading" for possibly walt's grandmother?

I thought it might be Walt's grandma too until I had a good look at the pictures on the wall. They aren't of Walt. Ecko and Yemi come to mind. :confused::confused: I'd post a link to a screen cap but I have no idea if they're allowed or not. I don't want any mods mad at me.

Yeah, they were definitely flashbacks. We were being shown the Freighties' lives prior to their being recruited for this mission.

Remember, Naomi had told the Losties that 815 had been found at the bottom of the ocean with no survivors. Since Dan was watching the news clip of 815 being salvaged (which was what Naomi was talking about), we can deduce that it was definitely something that happened prior to the expedition.

Couldn't Naomi have been telling a lie when she said that?

They weren't really there to save them, but she said they were.

However, when Daniel was watching the news of 815 and crying whoever was with him asked why he was crying and he said "I don't know" as if he could be experiencing something he already did.

Anthony Cooper also knew they found the plane off of Bali with no survivors in an episode from last season. If the freighties were all learning about it in their off island scenes, they were without a doubt flashBACKS.

Interesting thought. Linear time has been put in a blender with this show. That's part of it's appeal since last season's finale. They appear to be flashbacks, but nothing is what it seems to be on the surface with this show.

I'd bet they're just flashbacks, but Charlotte's and Daniel's scenes were certainly fuel for speculation. I really want to know why Daniel was crying, and didn't know why. Maybe he's a bit precognitive?

They made a point of showing each of these four people finding out about the discovered wreckage..
Naomi knew about the wreckage in Bali
Anthony Cooper knew about the wreckage in Bali

Pretty sure they made it very clear to be flashbacks based on us seeing each of them find out in real time about the finding of 815 in Bali

The thing we don't know, time-wise, is how much "real world" time passed between the crash and the discovery of the plane at the bottom of the ocean... Presumably, it took a while. Question is really whether island time and real world time are the same (which apparently they aren't). So island view is 90+ days since crash - don't know Naomi/Dan/Miles/Charlotte view...

charlotte didn't seem shocked that the polar bear had a dharma collar and was in the desert.

I don't think she should have to be. Ben said she's an anthropologist. That means she could easily be studying current or recent cultures. Let's suppose she was studying a more recent-but-vanished cult called "The Dharma Initiative." If she knew what the Dharma logo looks like and she'd gotten word of evidence of Dharma stuff in the Tunisian site, she'd go to investigate, just as we saw. And her finding of a Dharma logo would result in her feeling (and looking) gratified, just as we saw...

A lot of people are presuming that the dig site is ancient, but what we saw are reasonably fresh bones, that could have been nothing more than a test-animal that died before being shipped to the Hydra station, and that was buried because, well, in a place as hot as Tunisia, it was probably starting to stink...

The whole question of flashbacks vs. flashforwards is getting real complicated - Am thinking here that scenes of freighties learning about the finding is likely a flashback from their perspective but may be a flashforward from losties perspective since it could be more than 90 days of real world time elapsed between the crash, the finding, and then the "operation" led by Naomi...

I'd bet they're just flashbacks, but Charlotte's and Daniel's scenes were certainly fuel for speculation. I really want to know why Daniel was crying, and didn't know why. Maybe he's a bit precognitive?

Perhaps he's just sensitive??

I think about when Elizabeth Smart went missing and how national, maybe even global that story was, and when they found her the way they did, I knew people that got emotional. I guess mostly it was because sometimes you find yourself invested emotionally in things like that because you identify with someone associated with the tragedy. In my experience, it was mothers who cried bc she was missing, but then so relieved that she was found.

Perhaps Daniel was struck in that way as well??

Are we 100% sure that myle's,dan's and charlotte's flashbacks were indeed flashbacks and not flashforwards?

this seems like a stupid question but dan was crying like he was sorry for what he had done and charlotte didn't seem shocked that the polar bear had a dharma collar and was in the desert.

Hmm. A physicist, an anthropologist, a psychic... what do they remind me of?A Dharma orientation film! They studied exactly these things, didn't they?

What if they were all Dharma once... or had some connection or something?

What if Dharma is fighting back? :eek2:

After re-watching the episode, I realized something:

We were never given any idea of how much time passed between the crash and the jet's wreckage being found. Add the fact that Charlotte used the phrase, "And you've been living here all this time..." as if it's been more than just a few months.

I think this could very well be the best slight-of-hand that Darlton has served up yet. What if the wreckage was actually found TODAY...2008? What if the scenes we are seeing are set in OUR PRESENT TIME...or sometime years after the crash?

This fits in with the time anomalies that seem to happen with this Island. Explains why Charlotte was born in 79 and has her PHD. 25 is a little young for a PHD...but not in 2008.

Hmmm, I think Damon was right when he said they were screwing with our brains. :)

I have to disagree, for one reason.
All the flesh still on the pilot.
He would have been picked clean if to much time had passed.

That could be a continuity thing, or the fact that the wreckage was fake. They were also enclosed in the cabin of the plane.

I have to disagree, for one reason.
All the flesh still on the pilot.
He would have been picked clean if to much time had passed.

To answer the flas back/ flash foward question.
Naomi's was all about her making the trip to the island. How the whole mission depended on her.

I'd say flashback's, they were watching, listening, or reading the news about 815 being found. I agree that Daniel's scene seem to have more to it. Naomi did refer to him as a "head case" though ; ).


"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Right, but that doesnt say how long between the crash and when the wreckage was found.

Sure, to our losties, only 5 months has past. But on the outiside world, it's been a couple of years.

This also explains the C.S. Lewis Narnia reference. Thats how Narnia was in contrast to our world, except in those books, minutes in our world could equal months in Narnia.

Maybe this is why our Oceanic 6 is having even more of a hard time adjusting to their return.

Also explains what Dan was talking about with the light.

Also explains why Charlotte seemed so amazed.

I'd say flashback's, they were watching, listening, or reading the news about 815 being found. I agree that Daniel's scene seem to have more to it. Naomi did refer to him as a "head case" though ; ).


"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Right, but that doesnt say how long between the crash and when the wreckage was found.

Sure, to our losties, only 5 months has past. But on the outiside world, it's been a couple of years.

This also explains the C.S. Lewis Narnia reference. Thats how Narnia was in contrast to our world, except in those books, minutes in our world could equal months in Narnia.

Maybe this is why our Oceanic 6 is having even more of a hard time adjusting to their return.

Also explains what Dan was talking about with the light.

Also explains why Charlotte seemed so amazed.

A good point, but I have to refer back to a conversation that Hurley and Naomi had..

PARACHUTIST: Where am I?
HURLEY: Take it easy, you just had a giant branch...
PARACHUTIST: Where am I!
HURLEY: I dunno. You're on an Island. Are you here to rescue us? Are there more of you, can you make your phone work?
PARACHUTIST: Who are you?
HURLEY: Hugo Reyes. I crashed here on Oceanic Flight 815. A bunch of us survived, is that why you're here, were you looking for us?
PARACHUTIST: 815. Flight 815? The one from Sydney.
HURLEY: Yeah!
PARACHUTIST: No, that's not possible.
HURELY: Yeah I know. It wasn't easy but we found food, and a hatch...
PARACHUTIST: [Interrupting] No. No, Flight 815 they, they found the plane. There were no survivors. They were all dead.
HURLEY: What?!

and.. with Sayid.

NAOMI: A ship. Freighter. About eighty nautical miles West of here. We're part of a search and recovery team.
SAYID: You told my friends the wreckage of Flight 815 was discovered. Did you mean the partial wreckage?
NAOMI: No. They found the entire plane off the coast of Bali. In an ocean trench four miles deep. They sent down cameras in these little robots to survey the wreck. The bodies were all there.
SAYID: Well, obviously we're not dead.
NAOMI: Obviously.
SAYID: So if you weren't looking for us, then who were you looking for?
NAOMI: [Looking at Desmond] Him. (she obviously lied about the Des thing)
SAYID: Desmond?

Naomi knew about the wreckage before she came onto the Island, and her comments were verified in 4x02. The drunk, head case, bone lady, and ghost kid were all part of her "team". Hence the shock of Charlotte when she meets survivors.


[I]"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Right, but lets say 6 months on the Island = 2 years outside the Island.

So it's possible that they found the wreckage in 2007. But when they get to the Island, only 5 months past for our Losties. So of course Naomi knew about the wreckage, because in the time she came from they found it. But it was years after the actual crash.

It's a flashback of events happening prior to their arrival on the island, but those events happened way after the crash of Oceanic 15 in 2004. :)

This could also explain the growth spurt enjoyed by Walt. :)

In other words, there is a time differential what is on the Island and the Outside World. The Flashbacks happened say, 2007...and in 2008 they assembled this group and sent them to find Ben. They arrive, and Charlotte acts as if these people have been on this Island since they crashed, and to here that would be four years ago...when it's only been about 5 or 6 months to our Losties.

This theory can play as to why some of the Island natives are so young still. You realize that nobody has ever told us WHAT YEAR they arrived on this Island...just how long ago they arrived.

Was desmond seeing the future? Maybe not...maybe he just got caught in the little space between Lost Island time and the time of the outside world. Thats definitely a nice "science fiction explanation" for it.

It can explain why all the old stuff is down in the hatch and why the only new thing was a washer and dryer. Perhaps their original washer and dryer broke down and the new one they brought in was after one or two years had passed on the Island making it over two decades in the real world.

This means each season of the show has been around one year for the outside world.

A good point, but I have to refer back to a conversation that Hurley and Naomi had..


PARACHUTIST: Where am I?
HURLEY: Take it easy, you just had a giant branch...
PARACHUTIST: Where am I!
HURLEY: I dunno. You're on an Island. Are you here to rescue us? Are there more of you, can you make your phone work?
PARACHUTIST: Who are you?
HURLEY: Hugo Reyes. I crashed here on Oceanic Flight 815. A bunch of us survived, is that why you're here, were you looking for us?
PARACHUTIST: 815. Flight 815? The one from Sydney.
HURLEY: Yeah!
PARACHUTIST: No, that's not possible.
HURELY: Yeah I know. It wasn't easy but we found food, and a hatch...
PARACHUTIST: [Interrupting] No. No, Flight 815 they, they found the plane. There were no survivors. They were all dead.
HURLEY: What?!

and.. with Sayid.

NAOMI: A ship. Freighter. About eighty nautical miles West of here. We're part of a search and recovery team.
SAYID: You told my friends the wreckage of Flight 815 was discovered. Did you mean the partial wreckage?
NAOMI: No. They found the entire plane off the coast of Bali. In an ocean trench four miles deep. They sent down cameras in these little robots to survey the wreck. The bodies were all there.
SAYID: Well, obviously we're not dead.
NAOMI: Obviously.
SAYID: So if you weren't looking for us, then who were you looking for?
NAOMI: [Looking at Desmond] Him. (she obviously lied about the Des thing)
SAYID: Desmond?

Naomi knew about the wreckage before she came onto the Island, and her comments were verified in 4x02. The drunk, head case, bone lady, and ghost kid were all part of her "team". Hence the shock of Charlotte when she meets survivors.


[I]"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

I like your theory Hanover, can you find more info to back up your thoery?? It would be very interesting reading.. I have seen "time lapse" theories before on here, but not much to back it up. Some deal with time running 10% slower on the island and some deal with days/months slower on the island. Wouldnt be kool if Jack and Kate return's to the Island only to find out that they've been gone for only 2 or 3 days?? lol.



"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

This means each season of the show has been around one year for the outside world.

Yep - seems like the off-island 'present day' is more or less in sync with ours. So even though they've only been there a couple of months in Island time, they've been lost since 2004 in real time.

As you pointed out, if time does pass a lot slower on the island it explains a lot of stuff and would in particular account for why they cast a young boy (Walt) as a regular/recurring character even though they knew the show would run over 5 or 6 years. They would have known that the actor would have grown so much in that time that it would be really noticeable. There had to be a reason why they went ahead anyway.

Also explains the cryptic remarks by the writers to the effect of "... If they've really been there for the amount of time they think they have".

We'll just have to wait for one of the freighties to give mention what date it is in real time.

If that theory is correct then that means for ever 4 months on the Island, one year passes in the outside world.

So, if Russeau landed 15 years prior to our losties...that SHOULD have been 1989...however, if we use the 4 to 1 ratio, we need to subtract 45 years from 1989 which means Danielle actually arrived in 1945. Sounds more like a Doctor Livingston Pith Helmet expedition for Danielle and her Husband. :)


I like your theory Hanover, can you find more info to back up your thoery?? It would be very interesting reading.. I have seen "time lapse" theories before on here, but not much to back it up. Some deal with time running 10% slower on the island and some deal with days/months slower on the island. Wouldnt be kool if Jack and Kate return's to the Island only to find out that they've been gone for only 2 or 3 days?? lol.



"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

However, when Daniel was watching the news of 815 and crying whoever was with him asked why he was crying and he said "I don't know" as if he could be experiencing something he already did.

Yeah, Daniel did seem in a right state when he was watching the news. Like he was going through depression or something!

Ok these time lapse theories are interesting but are we forgetting TPTB stated a long time ago this this is all logical, its not a dream , purgatory, etc...

Well, I guess its plausible then since this has nothing to do with a dream or purgatory. :)

This theory has as much merit is as a ghost haunting a cabin that appears in front of people meant to find it.

In fact, I guarantee you the only dates EVER mentioned or referenced by charcters on the Island during the last three seasons were 2004...in a conversation about when they crashed there...and the date the Red Socks won the world series. I just watched the first three seasons prior to this one, and I noticed that....

Ok these time lapse theories are interesting but are we forgetting TPTB stated a long time ago this this is all logical, its not a dream , purgatory, etc...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it in 'Not In Portland' where Ben takes Juliet to the Flame and shows her 'live' footage of her sister and nephew? The age of the kid would seem to jive with the amount of time Juliet had been on the island... as well as the date on the newspaper that Richard is holding... to me, this would kind of suggest that time is the same on and off the island...

Good point, but it doesnt mean that the footage couldnt have been pre-recorded. Ben seems to be well prepared for almost any "proof" people need for his lies.

Think of the advantage you have by having someone working for you in a place that is always four years ahead.....and being able to keep in contact with those people.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it in 'Not In Portland' where Ben takes Juliet to the Flame and shows her 'live' footage of her sister and nephew? The age of the kid would seem to jive with the amount of time Juliet had been on the island... as well as the date on the newspaper that Richard is holding... to me, this would kind of suggest that time is the same on and off the island...

It doesn't really matter whether the scenes we saw of Daniel, Miles, Charlotte took place two months after Oceanic 815 disappeared in 2004 or in 2007... To me they still are flashback, as in before-coming-to-the-island. While I consider flash-forwards all the "post-island" scenes we've seen so far (bearded Jack with Kate in the Season 3 finale, and Hurley in "The Beginning of the End").

Cheers,
Rick

..and lets not forget the moment Sayid and Hurley heard Moonlight Serenade on their radio...like an ancient broadcast from the past...

I was just about to post something similar Jacob.. in "one of us" flashbacks show's 815 going down (over the others home).. then the same day Juliet and Ben goes to the FLAME, where Mikhail is looking at the "feeds" from the news about the flight being missing.. (some may argue that the feed was from the future.. the current timeline of the losties 9/22/2004.. with the island being slower or the past). I agree, the timeline seems to be just about the same with Juliets sister and the crash.


"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

Hmm i have to agree that something is up with time but i dont think its as quick as you are estimating. In the S3 finale the date on the obituary is April 5th 2007. Assuming then that the flashforwards start at the end and work backwards based on that the hurley flashforward seemed to be before the jack one it would mean that perhaps they have been off the island for a bit of time before April 2007. If time is faster off the island than on it then to be something like the 4 year difference u say doesnt realy make sense. hmm i think i may have confused myself here...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it in 'Not In Portland' where Ben takes Juliet to the Flame and shows her 'live' footage of her sister and nephew? The age of the kid would seem to jive with the amount of time Juliet had been on the island... as well as the date on the newspaper that Richard is holding... to me, this would kind of suggest that time is the same on and off the island...

Yeah - I agree, I thought of that myself and the date shown on the newspaper in the video feed of her sis was consistent with the date that Juliet expected to see, given her time on the Island.

Whereas they could have had pre-recorded footage from the 'past' (in present day terms) ready, it's really unlikely that they'd just happen to have one on the day that Juliet expected to see. Unless.. they had always planned to show her that clip and had recorded it and kept it archived to be trotted out at the appropriate 'on island' time. IIRC it's not like Juliet had demanded the feed, it was a surprise sprung on her by Ben when it became really clear she was having doubts. Could have just been fortuitous that the time it was to be shown to her coincided with the time she was having real doubts.

It always struck me as weird that by the time Ben and Juliet had walked to the Flame station to see the video feeds after the crash, there was full international coverage apparently coming in. Surely the plane at that state hadn't been missing for long enough to have reached 'global headlines' status (it would only have been an hour or two late)? I know people here remarked about this at the time.


What we really need to know is either the date that Rousseau was shipwrecked on the Island or of course for the Freighties to tell us the current real-world date. That would sort things out.

Good point, but it doesnt mean that the footage couldnt have been pre-recorded. Ben seems to be well prepared for almost any "proof" people need for his lies.

Think of the advantage you have by having someone working for you in a place that is always four years ahead.....and being able to keep in contact with those people.


I find this point to be an excellent one! This would prove that Richard Alpert is not the master of travel we thought he was when he had to travel to/from the island in a matter of minutes when he went to tape the "live" footage of Rachel and her son at the park...hmmmm ! ! !

If you think about it...Ben always just offers up something like that.

Jack didn't go, "Prove to me that the Red Socks won the World Series!"

Juliet didnt go, "Prove to me that my sister and her baby is okay!"

There was no coincidence...Ben knows about these people and knows what to show them in case they get out of his control.

Yeah - I agree, I thought of that myself and the date shown on the newspaper in the video feed of her sis was consistent with the date that Juliet expected to see, given her time on the Island.

Whereas they could have had pre-recorded footage from the 'past' (in present day terms) ready, it's really unlikely that they'd just happen to have one on the day that Juliet expected to see. Unless.. they had always planned to show her that clip and had recorded it and kept it archived to be trotted out at the appropriate 'on island' time. IIRC it's not like Juliet had demanded the feed, it was a surprise sprung on her by Ben when it became really clear she was having doubts. Could have just been fortuitous that the time it was to be shown to her coincided with the time she was having real doubts.

It always struck me as weird that by the time Ben and Juliet had walked to the Flame station to see the video feeds after the crash, there was full international coverage apparently coming in. Surely the plane at that state hadn't been missing for long enough to have reached 'global headlines' status (it would only have been an hour or two late)? I know people here remarked about this at the time.


What we really need to know is either the date that Rousseau was shipwrecked on the Island or of course for the Freighties to tell us the current real-world date. That would sort things out.

Well how do we explain Desmond then? If time was moving slower on island, and Desmond being in the hatch for 3 (on island) years, that would mean many more years would have passed off island. Yet, he wasn't really shocked to learn that he caused 815 to crash in September of 2004....

He should have been floored, like..."2004?! But it's only supposed to be _______!!!"

True...all I'm saying is that it feels like they were keeping things very ambiguous as to how much time passed between the plane going down and when it was found. I've re-watched that episode twice now...and there's absolutely nothing in it that could say how long ago the plane had crashed prior to finding it. Even the newspaper that Charlotte reads the headlines from you cant read the date. They never say either way if was months or years. If you've seen enough M. Night films, thats usually your first clue not to assume anything. :)

Even the Grandson's room had nothing to even give us a hint about if it was 2004 or 2008...it was all wood panelling, pin-ups and football posters. Charlotte's scene was in Tunisia. Jeff Fahey's scene was in the Bahamas...and Dan's flashback was just a face shot of him crying. None of the newstories overheard said, "This confirms that Flight Oceanic 15, which disappeared on its voyage from Sydney to Los Angeles xx years ago did indeed crash..."

Think of it this way...what if it was that crash that prompted Charlotte to begin her search for the Island to begin with? It certainly does feel as if "she knows better" when her friend asks her how many times is she going to read that headline before she believes it's true....and when she finds the polar bear, it's almost like a, "See? I told you!" expression.

Well how do we explain Desmond then? If time was moving slower on island, and Desmond being in the hatch for 3 (on island) years, that would mean many more years would have passed off island. Yet, he wasn't really shocked to learn that he caused 815 to crash in September of 2004....

He should have been floored, like..."2004?! But it's only supposed to be _______!!!"

are you people forgetting that juliet knows to the EXACT SECOND of how long shes been on the island so when shes shown the news paper in the video via live feed she isnt surprised so this is evident enough for me

That could be a continuity thing, or the fact that the wreckage was fake. They were also enclosed in the cabin of the plane.

That cant be a continuity thing, they made it a point to say the plane was too far down to recover the bodies, and then showed a body with more flesh than should even be there after three months, let alone 3+ years between the fish and the salt water. They would have to know someone would pick that up, its a pretty big error if its an error. Being enclosed in the cabin would still allow for salt water to affect the bodies.

On lostpedia, in the production notes section for this episode, it states that this is the furthest back a flashback has gone in the series. I am not sure if they know something there that we don't, but it would appear they are correct.

On lostpedia, in the production notes section for this episode, it states that this is the furthest back a flashback has gone in the series. I am not sure if they know something there that we don't, but it would appear they are correct.

Well it is hard to argue against that, but I have also been getting the feeling that we were watching flashforwards. There was something very knowing about the way Faraday was watching that Television. It was like he was being revisiting the pain. It reminded me a lot of how Jack and Hurley acted. Also, I really felt that Miles knew that he would find money and those Little Yellow Bags. I know he can "speak with the dead" but it just seemed like he was talking to someone he knew.

The problem with Miles crying when watching the wreckage is that when the woman in the room asked him what was wrong, he said I dont know. I just feel that if it was some experience he had, then he would know what he was upset about.. It seemed to me that he was overwhelmed with emotion and he himself didnt know why.

If the outiside world is ahead, they could definitely pre-record it.

Ben to Richard: "Go and get some footage of Juliet's sister so that we can have it for later. We know there will be a point when she wants to leave and we just can't let her do that."

The point is, Ben knows EVERYTHING about these people can knows exactly what he needs to manipulate them. If he's that smart, then he's smart enough to think ahead.

are you people forgetting that juliet knows to the EXACT SECOND of how long shes been on the island so when shes shown the news paper in the video via live feed she isnt surprised so this is evident enough for me
100%
You just said it yourself. Saltwater...that would have preserved the bodies.

That cant be a continuity thing, they made it a point to say the plane was too far down to recover the bodies, and then showed a body with more flesh than should even be there after three months, let alone 3+ years between the fish and the salt water. They would have to know someone would pick that up, its a pretty big error if its an error. Being enclosed in the cabin would still allow for salt water to affect the bodies.

On lostpedia, in the production notes section for this episode, it states that this is the furthest back a flashback has gone in the series. I am not sure if they know something there that we don't, but it would appear they are correct.

salt water would not preserve the bodies, it would bloat them and cause the flesh to deteriorate. Cells need a healthy balance of salt, and ocean water has too much salt to be healthy. Thats why you cant drink salt water. It would certainly not preserve them. Now if you told me the ocean temperature was extremely low and cold, you might have an argument. But given the location of Bali, I dont think that is the case. Dont forget sharks and fish, they would help make them skeletons quickly.

..and lets not forget the moment Sayid and Hurley heard Moonlight Serenade on their radio...like an ancient broadcast from the past...

This may be happening at the same time that Sam, in Find815, hears the classic broadcast about Amelia Earhart.

Here's the timeline as I understand it:

Day 1
Flight 815 crashes on Wednesday, Sept. 22. 2004.

Day 87
The guys find Naomi on Friday, Dec. 17, 2004, who by this time already knows about the wreckage being found in an ocean trench.

This tells us that between September 22 and December 17, the wreckage site in the trench was found.

The flashbacks of the "boaties" all occur within a day or two of each other because the news in those flashbacks is still about finding the wreckage site.

These flashbacks must be happening between September 22th and December 17. Let's say a week before Naomi lands on the Island she is given the assignment to go to the Island. That puts the latest date of finding the wreckage site on Day 80, Friday, December 10th, 2004.

So, it takes 80 days from the time of the crash to the discovery of the wreckage. Makes sense.

No time travel. No time warps. No time shifts. No wormholes.
And I don't have to stretch my imagination to force events to make sense.

Also, during this time, Charlotte could have learned enough about Dharma to know that a polar bear found in the Sahara desert of Tunisia is possible. After all, she did know to look for a collar and looked pleased, not surprised, to find it.

By the way, on Day 57, Wednesday, November 17th, Hurley and Sayid hear "Moonlight Serenade" (The Long Con) on a radio. This could be happening at the same time Sam hears the Amelia Earhart broadcast.

A few days later, the Christiane I finds the wreckage of 815. That means the wreckage site in the trench was found a few days after Day 57.

Back to the date of the "boaties" flashbacks... around Day 60, Saturday, November 20th give or take a day or two.

Its irrelevant anyways since this plane crash was faked.

Also, according to the news story that Dan was watching, the sub that found the wreckage had been patrolling that area for sunken ships the last two months. That means that they would have had to plant the wreckage within two months after the plane went down. That means two months prior, that plane wasn't there.

The fact is, Matthew Fox has said that we would be getting answers such as, "WHEN is this Island."

CS Lewis reference could easily be referring to Island time vs. Mainland time.

So, I guess we'll see. All I know is Charlotte acted like they've been gone a lot longer than four months. We didnt get any information about how long it took them to find the wreckage. We were never given any clues as to when any of those flashbacks was taking place in relationship to the crash. Even Naomi's and Matthews meeting was in a non-discrept office that conveniently offered no clues.

I believe Darlton is hiding that truth on purpose and it will be one of those moments when we're going to pick up our jaws off the ground.

"(We're) going to get into questions that the audience is just dying to start finding out about," he promised, like, "what is the island, where is this island, when is this island."
-interview in Entertainment Weekly.

Its amazing that people refuse to believe in wormholes or time differentials when this show has shown us a column of smoke that can pick up a man and smash him into a tree.

salt water would not preserve the bodies, it would bloat them and cause the flesh to deteriorate. Cells need a healthy balance of salt, and ocean water has too much salt to be healthy. Thats why you cant drink salt water. It would certainly not preserve them. Now if you told me the ocean temperature was extremely low and cold, you might have an argument. But given the location of Bali, I dont think that is the case. Dont forget sharks and fish, they would help make them skeletons quickly.

I thought it might be Walt's grandma too until I had a good look at the pictures on the wall. They aren't of Walt. Ecko and Yemi come to mind. :confused::confused: I'd post a link to a screen cap but I have no idea if they're allowed or not. I don't want any mods mad at me.

Why/How would Eko or Yemi have a baseball trophy in their room? Weren't they in Africa? Maybe I missed something, but I doubt there are Little Leagues in the jungle. ;)

Ever since "Minkowski" answered the phone, there has been a lot of talk about the reference to "Minkowski Time" which is was developed by a scientist named Minkowski to support Einstein's relativity theory - says time is not a separate dimension from space, rather another dimension of it (so all time occurs at once like all space does)... The "light doesn't scatter right" remark from Faraday could be a reference to the experiment from which the alternate universe theories come... Am liking the theory that the island will turn out to be some sort of portal...

Yeah, they were definitely flashbacks. We were being shown the Freighties' lives prior to their being recruited for this mission.

Remember, Naomi had told the Losties that 815 had been found at the bottom of the ocean with no survivors. Since Dan was watching the news clip of 815 being salvaged (which was what Naomi was talking about), we can deduce that it was definitely something that happened prior to the expedition.


Thats the exact reply I was about to give, they are deffinetly flash backs.

... are seeing are set in OUR PRESENT TIME...or sometime years after the crash?

This fits in with the time anomalies that seem to happen with this Island. Explains why Charlotte was born in 79 and has her PHD. 25 is a little young for a PHD...but not in 2008.
...

My wife was completing her teaching at 24, finished her dissertation at 25, though her adviser wouldn't officially approve it w/ revisions until she turned 27.

Its irrelevant anyways since this plane crash was faked.

Also, according to the news story that Dan was watching, the sub that found the wreckage had been patrolling that area for sunken ships the last two months. That means that they would have had to plant the wreckage within two months after the plane went down. That means two months prior, that plane wasn't there.

So, I guess we'll see. All I know is Charlotte acted like they've been gone a lot longer than four months. We didnt get any information about how long it took them to find the wreckage. We were never given any clues as to when any of those flashbacks was taking place in relationship to the crash. Even Naomi's and Matthews meeting was in a non-discrept office that conveniently offered no clues.

I believe Darlton is hiding that truth on purpose and it will be one of those moments when we're going to pick up our jaws off the ground.

Its amazing that people refuse to believe in wormholes or time differentials when this show has shown us a column of smoke that can pick up a man and smash him into a tree.

For purposes of discussion let's say that what was found on the bottom of the ocean is a "wreckage" and what occurred on the Island is a "crash."

1. It's relevant because if the airplane wreckage was faked, then the search was faked also.

2. The bodies looked pretty fresh for being at the bottom of the ocean.

3. Charlotte is B.S.ing Team Locke. She is trying to earn their trust by faking being amazed and trying to act humble. After Ben reveals her stats, her "face" comes off and we see in the act of being caught.

4. I wouldn't say Dalton is hiding the truth. The truth is that this is still a work of fiction and as storytellers, they do know how to weave a good tale. I don't know how you would define "truth" in a work of fiction.

5. From "Smokie" to wormholes and time differentials: until I see a stargate or a time tunnel, hmmm, I don't see the connection.

6. When PAW (producers and writers) and actors from the show talk about "when the island is" etc, that sounds like PR. It sounds like what PAWs from other shows do to create buzz about a show. It's in the PAW Playbook. Really.

Remember: There is talk "within" the show and talk "about" the show.

We're not disputing whether these things happened prior to them arriving. What we are debating is whether they arrived from some year after the crash.

1. Charlotte seemed to sound like they've been living there for awhile...more than four months.

2. The flashbacks never give us any clues as to what year they take place in or explain the time between the plane getting lost and the plane being found.

3. Charlotte Staples Lewis...C.S. Lewis. In the Narnia books...one minute of our time was like months in Narnia. So Charlotte's name is a clue. Maybe 4 months = 2 years on the mainland or something.

4. If # 3 is true....Since Ben has had people on the mainland, they could sort of tell him what the future is going to be, thus that could explain why he always seems to know so much about what's going to happen and his ability always to be one step ahead of everyone. Also explains why things that seemed like coincidences aren't really coincidences.

5. This could explain Walt's growth spurt. If he indeed did get off the Island and somehow ended up getting back, time is faster on the mainland, thus his sudden tallness.

6. This could explain the washer and dryer in the hatch. They bought that washer and dryer a couple of years after the hatch was built...which means decades could have passed on the mainland, thus, the modern washer and dryer. :)

7. Years have never been used as a reference for when someone landed on the Island. They always go, "three years ago" or "15 years ago." The only concrete date we know is the date the plane went down. That was emphasized in seaond three. We really dont know how much time had passed after Jack and Desmond met. In fact, we really dont know how much time passed between most of the events in any of our losties lives. I think that was deliberate too.

It's just a theory...I've been wrong before, so we'll just wait and see what happens. But remember, I've just watched the first three seasons prior to this one and thats why I noticed that peculiar ambiguity as to what happened, and when, and how much time has passed between, before and after the events we've seen in flashbacks.

Thats the exact reply I was about to give, they are deffinetly flash backs.

If there is any sort of time dilation / differential between on-island and off-island time, then it would have had to have been caused when Desmond turned the failsafe. When the sky turned purple, maybe it created some sort of nexus that slowed down time on the island?

That would also explain why, as Tom mentioned in "The Glass Ballerina," the Others' communications went down right after the sky turned purple. If there's a time dilation (created by turning the failsafe), people on the island would lose contact with people in the outside world, if time suddenly begins moving more slowly on the island.

Is there a date on the newspaper that Charlotte looks at in the desert

It's just a theory...I've been wrong before, so we'll just wait and see what happens.

1. I agree. But, then who hasn't been. ; )

2. "... we'll just wait and see what happens." That's always good advice.
100%
Is there a date on the newspaper that Charlotte looks at in the desert

It was quick and fuzzy*. Probably more clear on the DVD or on Hi Def.


* Geez, that sounds bad. You know what I mean.