So, basically our guy that fell onto the rocks can communicate with people who have passed. This melds with some of the Desmond / Walt / Christian issues and people seeing them... It would make sense that this guy alone, and probably the rest of his crew, want to come to the island for this reason! The island is helping these individuals communicate in one way or the next with those who have passed. Quite possibly Hurley has always been able to do this and that's why he thinks he's crazy. Maybe Dave was a real person at one point and then Hurley kept on seeing his spirit - just as he's seeing Charlie's now. So how exactly is it explained scientifically?!

it appears locke can do it too

Yes, you're absolutely correct. I had too many thoughts going through my head but that was definitely one of them. It explains Locke seeing Jacob, Walt, etc. So, both Hurley and Locke have this capability? Who, then, is the bigger force to be reckoned with in regard to the island?!

If Ben can see Jacob, would that mean that he is capable of that too? He was also able to see his mother, who we know is dead, when he was a kid.

I got the impression that Miles needed equipment to do the communication while in the real world, but on the island--with Naomi--no equipment was necessary. I am assuming that Miles is actually communicating with the "dead" or "those trapped in another dimension" or whatever.

I think that's kind of the caveat right now - Ben isn't able to see/speak with them as well anymore, just as he was actually able to be inflicted with a tumor... He's kind of been losing his abilities.

I got the impression that Miles needed equipment to do the communication while in the real world, but on the island--with Naomi--no equipment was necessary. I am assuming that Miles is actually communicating with the "dead" or "those trapped in another dimension" or whatever.


I actually thought that the vaccum or whatever it was that Miles brought with him to the woman's house in his FB was just for effect...

I actually thought that the vaccum or whatever it was that Miles brought with him to the woman's house in his FB was just for effect...

I think it was to create a sound barrier so the woman wouldn't hear what he actually said to her dead son.

Yes, I think the vacuum was a decoy to make it look like he was "sucking" out the ghost. But it really just created white noise while he did his thing.

I think that Miles is coming to the island to communicate with Jacob and to hear/understand the Whispers. I HOPE!!

I actually thought that the vaccum or whatever it was that Miles brought with him to the woman's house in his FB was just for effect...

That's what I thought at first as well. And that might be the case.

I don't know about you guys but the ghost busters scene was a total jump the shark moment for me. I really don't like the ghost stuff at all. It's very gimmicky.

I don't know about you guys but the ghost busters scene was a total jump the shark moment for me. I really don't like the ghost stuff at all. It's very gimmicky.

I'm definitely with you, Avi, I am really not sure how to take it all in. I was perfectly content with the Losties seeing things like Christian on the island as some kind of product of the smoke monster or something, indeed with the island's or its own agenda. And last week when Hurley saw Charlie, I'd like to believe that was a genuine 'haunting' although that is certainly quite strange in and of itself because the show hasn't... really gone there, to death, have they? Ockham's Razor and the willingness inside of me to not involve the realm of spirits up to that point was perfectly satisfied... except now, Miles can apparently talk to the dead - and that brings something entirely unique but also something potentially excessive to the whole thing. Are we now to interpret that everything we've been seeing on the island and off up to this point could additionally be a result of the actual supernatural realm, meaning something beyond the smoke monster which is obviously a bit paranormal in and of itself? The idea that Miles can talk to Naomi after she's gone, but that it's actually Naomi and not an iteration of the smoke monster is slightly disturbing and I'm wondering why they're going there. I'm proud in a way that when they showed Miles doing his 'thing' they made it seem quite natural as if it really were something in the real world, but the show seems like it's becoming about something entirely different than what it tends to usually be about, and I'm just hoping really for a peaceful resolution of all of it. I completely trust the writers but I am sort of stunned and do feel, as you said, like it was a total 'jump the shark' moment and I'm feeling a bit unnerved or uneasy about it all. Any other thoughts?

I think that Miles is coming to the island to communicate with Jacob and to hear/understand the Whispers. I HOPE!!

thats exactly my thoughts too. instead of seeing it as miles talking to ghosts, i see it as miles has the ability to communicate with people in other demensions. death, to some, is expressed as an alternate plane of existence. jacob seems caught between planes, so someone like miles might be able to make contact.

I think that's kind of the caveat right now - Ben isn't able to see/speak with them as well anymore, just as he was actually able to be inflicted with a tumor... He's kind of been losing his abilities.

Maybe Ben had to "train" himself to be in harmony with the Island. He did spend a lot of time alone as a kid wandering around (I'd assume at least). He could have picked up on things and tried to hone his skills, which he did with his minimal gift. But, then he met the true naturals Locke and Hurley...

BTW, I need to search for/ start a new thread to discuss Locke's and Ben's reactions to Hurley's saying the cabin was the other way :eek2: :eek2:

I don't know about you guys but the ghost busters scene was a total jump the shark moment for me. I really don't like the ghost stuff at all. It's very gimmicky.

With all due respect, that is a pretty strong statement considering the meaning.

Some resolutions may involve that Miles reads memories trapped in particles. I dunno, but I'm not gonna assume that Miles is communicating with actual spirits or ghosts just yet. I read a theory that mentions an element Holinium. This element has intersting properties - some that may indicate Miles is not talking to spirits. That's if the two are connected. But, I'm just saying I'm leaving the jury out on this til I see more.

And, the new storylines are KILLER! No more Pikki, got the Freighties instead, way to go PTB! :clapey:

I don't know about you guys but the ghost busters scene was a total jump the shark moment for me. I really don't like the ghost stuff at all. It's very gimmicky.Yeah and I just don't care for the so called talking to the dead in general if it ain't happening on the island. Now Hurley seeing and talking to Charlie was different in my opinion and I think that's because Charlie died in the vicinity of the island. Granted I don't know how that entire conversation took place or how Charlie slapped Hurley but I can take that scene better than Mr. Ghostbuster Miles.

Well Miles could have been communicating with someone who's dead on the island for all we know. It's okay when it's a lostie or when Walt's got birds smacking against his windows in the real world. I really think that this stuff is where it was all going in the beginning. The fear that Walt's step dad had when he wanted Michael to take Walt. I really think this "dead" stuff has happened all along,..it just wasn't as blatent.

I'm definitely with you, Avi, I am really not sure how to take it all in. I was perfectly content with the Losties seeing things like Christian on the island as some kind of product of the smoke monster or something, indeed with the island's or its own agenda. And last week when Hurley saw Charlie, I'd like to believe that was a genuine 'haunting' although that is certainly quite strange in and of itself because the show hasn't... really gone there, to death, have they? Ockham's Razor and the willingness inside of me to not involve the realm of spirits up to that point was perfectly satisfied... except now, Miles can apparently talk to the dead - and that brings something entirely unique but also something potentially excessive to the whole thing. Are we now to interpret that everything we've been seeing on the island and off up to this point could additionally be a result of the actual supernatural realm, meaning something beyond the smoke monster which is obviously a bit paranormal in and of itself? The idea that Miles can talk to Naomi after she's gone, but that it's actually Naomi and not an iteration of the smoke monster is slightly disturbing and I'm wondering why they're going there. I'm proud in a way that when they showed Miles doing his 'thing' they made it seem quite natural as if it really were something in the real world, but the show seems like it's becoming about something entirely different than what it tends to usually be about, and I'm just hoping really for a peaceful resolution of all of it. I completely trust the writers but I am sort of stunned and do feel, as you said, like it was a total 'jump the shark' moment and I'm feeling a bit unnerved or uneasy about it all. Any other thoughts?

I feel the same as you. To me ghosts and supernatural would not be a real answer. I like the idea of different dimensions, time travel and things like that because they could put some science behind it and tie it all together. But tainting this with ghosts makes me think that the writers will take the easy way out with things like smokey and Jacob and just say "they're ghosts". It would take so much of the meaning out of it.

I agree it was a jump the shark.

Something about the way Miles communicated with whatever he was communicating with reminded me of the way that Smokey seemed to "scan" Juliet and Kate when they were hiding in the banyan tree last season.

Some resolutions may involve that Miles reads memories trapped in particles. I dunno, but I'm not gonna assume that Miles is communicating with actual spirits or ghosts just yet. I read a theory that mentions an element Holinium. This element has intersting properties - some that may indicate Miles is not talking to spirits. That's if the two are connected. But, I'm just saying I'm leaving the jury out on this til I see more.

I'd be fine if their is some science tied into it like you are saying. I was able to suspend disbelief up until the ghostbuster and it does have me concerned for what some of the resolutions will be. I think most of us would agree that "oh yeah those were ghosts" would be a pretty crappy for those of us that are trying to follow clues to figure this all out.

I am so happy to see that I wasn't going to be the only one who didn't like that whole Ghostbusters scene. I did laugh when I saw Miles' equipment reminded me of the " vessel" that Sam gets on Reaper. I just thought that the scene was totally out of left field.

Ok I have noticed that there are a considerable amount of you out there that didn't like the new Miles character and his occupation as a ghostbuster. I actually liked it a lot. I can understand people being weary of that though, thinking that the writers might have an easy way out now with explaining things like Jacob and the monster. But just think about it like this. Let's take Jacob and the monster. Judging from the way Ben has talked about Jacob and the way The Others regarded him, I seriously doubt he's something like a ghost. I did mention one time in another post that it's a possibiltiy he could be a poltergiest, but that was just speculation. I do think there is some element of the supernatural involved, but I don't think it's anything close to him simply being just a ghost. That would be boring and predictable. I don't think the writers would disappoint everyone in saying simply that Jacob is a ghost...it just doesn't add up that way anyway he would be a pretty weird ghost.

And as for the monster....come on now how could that thing possibly be a ghost in the first place???? There is no explanation they could give me that would convince me that it's a ghost. FIRST OF ALL...ghosts CANNOT harm people, they cannot cross over into the real world and inflict harm on living, breathing people. Poltergeists can cause harm to people, but ONLY by harnessing anger in the supernatural realm and transferring it to energy in the real world when it gets built up enough, causing tangible objects to move around, which could cause harm to living people. Also poltergeists aren't visible to the naked eye, cannot make audible noises and certainly cannot conform themselves into illusionary beings, and if they could in any way I doubt it would be as a big cloud of smoke that makes mechanical noises and kills people randomly. Granted things are different on the island, but I seriously doubt it could change a spirit to the point of breaking EVERY law of the supernatural.

ALSO, what if he isn't something as simple as a ghostbuster?? What if he's more than that, someone who can possibly communicate with people not just trapped in limbo or the other side altogether, dead people, but with those that are trapped possibly in other dimensions? That would be interesting. Just because he had that vacuum-looking thing doesn't mean it's necessarily a ghost-busting tool and if you think about it, he really didn't tell the woman whose house he was in much at all about what he was doing. He was very short and vague and whatever he was doing didn't take long at all. We weren't given much with this guy, definitely not enough to just assume that the writers are introducing him as a way to get themselves out of explaining two of the biggest mysteries of LOST.

So rest assured people, the writers know that we are anticipating something sufficiently shocking and unexpected in the explanations of Jacob and the monster and I doubt the introduction of this new character is confirmation of them doing the opposite. Granted I could be wrong, I don't claim to know everything, I just hope I am right. I'm sure most of you would agree. I guess we will find out.

I don't know why you would like it. Obviously we need to watch it play out, but it has me worried. The island being different and special due to it's properties is one thing, but guys in the normal world seeing ghosts seems to cloud the issue and I have fears of writers having written themselves into a corner trying to establish a cheap escape route.

I'm actually a very forgiving person of this show and I'm often the one that rationalizes it for people I know so they can cope with the sometimes sketchy rules of the shows universe. But this one really falls outside the box and has given me a foreboding feeling. All I can really say about this one is, let's hope it's not what it appears to be.

Yeah that's all we can do at this point is hope. I have faith that the writers will give us what we want, and if not something exactly up to par with what we think it should be, a worthy alternative that is equally as satisfying, something we never thought about or actually didn't like before, but have come to approve of because of the way they made it work.

Personally I think he might be there to talk to the people who have died on the island. Quite obviously Jacob and Smokey are on a different level.

Personally I think he might be there to talk to the people who have died on the island. Quite obviously Jacob and Smokey are on a different level.

I would very much support that theory...THANK YOU for recognizing that Jacob and the monster are a different story!!!

Why does Miles bother people when we have had similar characters on the show already? Malkin was a psychic with ACTUAL psychic powers, who sent Claire on flight 815 knowing that it would result in her raising the child on her own? Isaac of Uluru was a legitimate healer, and his words about their being points of energy on the planet seem crucial into feeding the larger mythology of the show.

I'm not quite sure why Miles would bother anyone more than some previous characters.

I think the reason people would be worried about Miles even though there have been characters like him in the past is because those characters were simply one off and were used for specific plot points that weren't THAT plot affecting to begin with. With Miles being a regular, he can be used more often and it's worrisome how many times he might be used to do away with some of the show's mysteries.

But I have faith in the writers!

I don't at all mind the idea of Miles or anyone else on the idea talking to the dead actually.

The way I see it is that over the course of human history there have been tons of cases of people communicating with apparitions or being reincarnated and it seems to me that these things are real and do exist.

If that were to be true then they would only seem magical until we discovered the solid scientific basis behind them, much like a mobile phone or airplane would seem magical to a caveman.

It's also been said that our physical beings and thoughts in particular are nothing but energy vibrating at various frequencies so what if it was possible at the moment of death for the energy of someone's thoughts or soul to become locked onto this plane of existence outside the perceptions of all but a rare few?

As it happens I think people can and do communicate through their thoughts but it's a skill we've yet to properly master as a society. My cousin and I have often noticed that at times when we're doing a repetitive task (like taking a REALLY long walk) and we're not consciously thinking of anything, one of us will hum a tune and the other will be like "I was just thinking of that exact song."

It doesn't just happen with music it happens with lots of stuff and with different people, all of which I'm close to. I think this happens with us for a few reasons:

A, We're two people who know each other really well and have a lot in common i.e. similar frequencies of thought that our brains are familiar with

B, It only ever occurs at a time when or conscious brains have switched off and therefore are more open to receiving external stimulus (i.e. when sitting around, bored, not really thinking of anything)

C, It's always about a subject both of us is familiar with i.e. a song we both know the words to or a quote from a film we've both heard etc (which suggests that due to the immaturity of our psychic abilities we're unable to pick up info that is currently unfamiliar)


So taking all this into account I think it's highly plausible that someone with either a higher natural talent for this stuff or sufficient training could communicate with the deceased in a rational and scientific way.

What do you think?

Is anyone else worried that the introduction of the new Asian character, Miles, is leading up to a complete cop-out by the whole Lost team? So much of the show can be easily explained by supernatural causes (Jacob, Black Smoke, Invisible Island, the Numbers, etc.). Nothing in this show has been confirmed as supernatural, and then all of a sudden Ghostbuster Jr. comes along and can talk to the dead. I really liked the episode, but was really hoping that they'd have a rational, logical explanation for everything that happened. :drowsy:

I couldn't agree with you more, brother.

The real question is ,,,is anyone else not worried? The whole dustbuster er, I mean ghostbuster, business was lame.

Cop out?!?! NO WAY!!! I feel Miles has powers the same way Malkin does, or Desmond or Hurley. His are just a little different. He can communicate directly with the dead. He is half way between our world and 'another world'.

I don't think this is a cop out but a great new twist on the story. If the dead go to another realm and Miles is a link between the worlds, maybe Jacob is too...maybe all of our 'special' losties are too...they just haven't truly realized their powers yet.

Perhaps that's what the scene with Charlie and Hurley was all about....just in reverse, seeing it from the other point of view.

There are so many great possibilities and ways they can take this story.....not Cop Out...Far Out!!!!:D
100%
I thought the 'dustbuster' was maybe a homemade white noise machine.....he used it so his victims customers couldn't hear what he was really doing. i.e. robbing them

In their last PodCast, Darton said that the explanations would be a combination of the Supernatural and the PseudoScientific.

I agree the ghostbuster concept is kind of lame. Could this be nostalgia on Damon's part since he was a boy in the 80's and must have loved Ghostbusters? Spare us, please. :rolleyes: A retrofitted vacuum cleaner to communicate with the dead?

At least we can be glad it got Kate and Jack off the hook since Miles learned from Naomi's corpse that Kate was telling the truth about her death.

And it would be cool if, for example, Nikki and Paulo filled him in on how they were buried alive. But we still wouldn't care, so never mind. :rolleyes:

I think the vacuum was there to cover up his conversation with the spirit, didn't want grandma to know what he was really after.

I think the vacuum was there to cover up his conversation with the spirit, didn't want grandma to know what he was really after.

But it wasn't a true vacuum - it had some sort of disk sticking out of the end. Is that supposed to emanate a frequency ghosts can hear or something? It's been so long since I've seen Ghostbusters that I forgot what sort of equipment they used, but it was wacky stuff too.

Would be a great crossover if the boys from the show Supernatural showed up! Gotta salt and burn those bones to put the spirit to rest!

Heh, but seriously, I don't feel that it's a cop out. It opens a lot of doors to giving us a decent explanation about the supernatural stuff we've seen on the show so far (the girl who came back to life in Eko's flashback, the whispers, Jacob, the weird Charlie/Christian Shephard/etc. manifestations).

A retrofitted vacuum cleaner to communicate with the dead?


I thought it was fairly obvious that the vacuum cleaner wasn't really used. It was more of a distraction for the benefit of his clients. He didn't have a vacuum cleaner on the island when he "read" Naomi.

Same old argument.
Lost is Sci-Fi.

At least we can be glad it got Kate and Jack off the hook since Miles learned from Naomi's corpse that Kate was telling the truth about her death.


I don't have an inherent problem with the character of Miles, just the way he was presented. There has been so much in this show that could be possibly supernatural. There were possibly natural and supernatural explanations for just about everything that happened. What bugs me, is the fact that this is now a confirmed supernatural character, which leads me to believe that just about everything is going to be explained away in that manner. They could've introduced him and set things up that he may have been scamming people with the whole talking to the dead thing, but they confirmed that he can actually do it when he described exactly what happened with Naomi. I'm just frustrated that they decided to ditch the ambiguity that was really a driving factor for me. The possibility that it could natural or supernatural was something that I really liked, but always hoped that everything would've been explained in a natural way.

Since Naomi never saw where the knife that killed her came from I wasn't sure how she was going to communicate who really killed her to Miles and find the idea of a ghost buster a little silly, but maybe he's there to sniff out what's really going on in Jacob's shack.

There's a smoke monster, that shows people their lives (and who knows what else). There's a guy in a cabin that you can't see, unless you're special and looking at the right time. There's a guy who can see the future. There's a vanishing kid who speaks backwards. There are cursed numbers. We've dipped more than a toe into the supernatural and irrational before now.

Just wondering if instead of Miles "talking to the dead" there is time travel involved?
Could he have somehow traveled through time to "see" what happended?

Are you kidding? Miles is the best of all LOST worlds, part con man, part psychic! He's the perfect character for the island!

have to agree with Diablol. Miles rules!!!!!! i also agree that the dustbuster was just to make noise so that the victim couldn't hear that all he was really doing was robbing her. but i do think he really is psychic, although i don't understand why that woman's dead grandson would tell him where the money was hidden.

Are you kidding? Miles is the best of all LOST worlds, part con man, part psychic! He's the perfect character for the island!

Exactly! I totally agree.

Miles seems to be more of an homage to "The Frightners" than "Ghostbusters" I think.

He's not a ghostbuster, he is a ghost extortionist. Love it! He's my favorite Freightey so far.

There's no reason to believe this is a cop-out. It's only been one episode for him. There's much more to come. TPTB know what they're doing. There will be deeper explanations for even Miles' abilities.

I found it very disturbing. I mean, the Miles character actually requires us to believe in ghosts, not only on the island, which is something we have been contemplating du to the whispers, but also out the outside world. That is really a huge move in the supernatural direction that i dislike.

I don't have a big problem with the answers to the show being supernatural, I'd prefer natural, but I can take either. The problem I have is with the committing, when there are 2 3/4 seasons left. If we know the answers can be explained supernaturally, I'm afraid I'll lose interest, because I'll assume everything is a ghost. The fact that we don't have any big answers is what keeps us all watching this show!

[quote=workingmom;1749430]I agree the ghostbuster concept is kind of lame. Could this be nostalgia on Damon's part since he was a boy in the 80's and must have loved Ghostbusters? Spare us, please. :rolleyes: A retrofitted vacuum cleaner to communicate with the dead? <<




Hey, I was thinking that it just *looked* like a vacuum cleaner. Perhaps he's sucking the souls into his machine? Maybe the machine generates some sort of frequency that tames the ghosts? Maybe the "white noise" is not a scam?
It was obvious that Miles was twitching and weird right before he started talking to the ghost, and it was obvious that the ghost showed him where the money was...

Maybe he has a machine to look like that in case anyone asks him...?

We've seen psychics before, Richard Malkin, his daughter, even Desmond saw flashes of the future. I am not sure why this guy would throw anyone off the interest of Lost. Think about the voices they hear? Does anyone think they are really underground others that can be heard through vents? I think we should all come to accept that things like this are a part of Lost, a lot of the characters have had supernatural experiences thus far. Im not sure why Miles is so different (well other than the dustbuster he took with him, but the fact he knew for sure how Naomi died proves he doesnt need the dustbuster to do his thing)

That vacuum cleaner was retrofitted to exhaust cold air. That's why Miles shivers after he turns it on. It was to force out the ghost who didn't want to be found. He didn't need it with Naomi because he knew Naomi and she was willing to talk to him.

I love lost.

Always have, Always will.

I loved last nights episode too. Just the whole ghost-whispering thing really seemed like a cop-out to me. *Everything* back home so far has been explainable through logic and science. Even the psychic, we later learned, was just a fraud, but you can't just explain away finding a few thousand dollars behind a bookshelf, and in a heating duct after talking with ghosts.

Even on the island, things like this were handled alot more delicately. You could believe one of dozens of different explanations for anything considered supernatural. This time though, it just felt heavy handed, like talking with the dead was forced down my throat as reality.

From another thread, which got locked due to poor moderating.

I happen to agree with your conclusion, just not your line of reasoning:

FIRST OF ALL...ghosts CANNOT harm people, they cannot cross over into the real world and inflict harm on living, breathing people.

Poltergeists can cause harm to people

Isn't this kind of contradictory? You say ghosts can not harm people, but go on to say that poltergeists, which are a type of ghost, can?

Granted things are different on the island, but I seriously doubt it could change a spirit to the point of breaking EVERY law of the supernatural.

Since when are there "laws" of the supernatural? Last time I checked, not everyone believes in ghosts, and even those that do can not agree on their form of existence. There are no laws of the supernatural in real life and the ones that exist in tv shows are made up by the writers. If TPTB decide that Smokey is the psychic manifestation of the island sent by Jacob the ghost to do his bidding, then that is what he/it will be. We may not like it, but we will not be able to say that they "broke" any "laws" of the supernatural in the process.

This whole scene did bother me quite a bit, but I'm not ready to call it a cop out yet.

He obviously knew that the kid had drug money stashed away somewhere. Maybe he just got lucky and immediately picked the right spot to look for it.
That of course explains neither why he puts on a show when nobody is in the room with him and why he wanted to see Naomi on the island to confirm Kate's story.

But I refuse to believe that TPTB introduced a confirmed supernatural character. That would suck.

Like somebody else said, I'm waiting for answers. Now I'm afraid that the answers will be: Locke saw the ghost of Walt. The black smoke is a ghostly apparition that can read minds. etc. etc.

It think the dustbuster was just so that his customers thought he was using "scientific" equipment. He didn't need it, his customers did.

Why does Miles bother people when we have had similar characters on the show already? Malkin was a psychic with ACTUAL psychic powers, who sent Claire on flight 815 knowing that it would result in her raising the child on her own? Isaac of Uluru was a legitimate healer, and his words about their being points of energy on the planet seem crucial into feeding the larger mythology of the show.

I'm not quite sure why Miles would bother anyone more than some previous characters.

Let's try this again.

Malkin was not a psychic. He had no ACTUAL powers. What he ACTUALLY was, was a fraud. Which he admitted in a later episode.

Isaac was not a healer. He too, admitted he had no powers, but was the location that did the healing.

From another thread, which got locked due to poor moderating.

Was locked due to a discussion already taking place here. I see you found the thread.

I don't have a big problem with the answers to the show being supernatural, I'd prefer natural, but I can take either. The problem I have is with the committing, when there are 2 3/4 seasons left. If we know the answers can be explained supernaturally, I'm afraid I'll lose interest, because I'll assume everything is a ghost. The fact that we don't have any big answers is what keeps us all watching this show!

You nailed it. I became invested in this show due to the prospect of all questions having a logical answer. Then everyone starting showing up in everyone else's backstories for no particular reason, and I knew they'd placed precedence on the cheap thrill, instead of a tightly written story. Now, it just keeps getting looser.

I don't have an inherent problem with the character of Miles, just the way he was presented. There has been so much in this show that could be possibly supernatural. There were possibly natural and supernatural explanations for just about everything that happened. What bugs me, is the fact that this is now a confirmed supernatural character, which leads me to believe that just about everything is going to be explained away in that manner. They could've introduced him and set things up that he may have been scamming people with the whole talking to the dead thing, but they confirmed that he can actually do it when he described exactly what happened with Naomi. I'm just frustrated that they decided to ditch the ambiguity that was really a driving factor for me. The possibility that it could natural or supernatural was something that I really liked, but always hoped that everything would've been explained in a natural way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Miles "described exactly what happened with Naomi." I thought Miles merely said "They're telling the truth, they didn't kill her" after "talking" to Naomi's body/spirit. That statement might have just been a ploy to get on the Losties good side, to gain their trust. (Obviously, Sayid didn't trust them; and even Jack was suspicious that Dan brought a gun along.)

Since Naomi never saw where the knife that killed her came from I wasn't sure how she was going to communicate who really killed her to Miles and find the idea of a ghost buster a little silly, but maybe he's there to sniff out what's really going on in Jacob's shack.

Well, Jack and Kate were standing in front of her when Naomi got knifed in the back -- so obviously, they're in the clear. ;)


Witchy

Cop out?
You mean in a show where numbers cause people to die and a giant smoke monster kills people?
No. I'm ok with it.
I do think it will make people drop off though, which is stupid because paranormal was mentioned in the first Dharma film.

I think the Monster can be explained in relatively real-world scientific terms. I just posted a theory in General Theories about what I think it is, but I definitely don't think it's just a ghost or spirit... or that the whole ghostbuster character is somehow just an easy way to explain all the mysteries the show has.

The problem is, throughout the entire season, one of the largest, if not *the* largest theme, is science vs faith.

Speaking with the dead cannot be explained by science, therefore it's a piss poor job by the writers to use it as a plot point.

My first thought when he plugged in the vacuum was that it was to create an EMF to attract the spirit or illuminate it for him, coulda been a blender. He didn't need it on the Island cause it seems to be one ginormous EMF. Also, she would have known who threw the knife cause she didn't die instantly, laid there pretending to be dead... hmmm kinda like Miles.

There's still room to offer a pseudo-scientific explanation for the "ghosts" on Lost. But I agree with those who say that last night's episode was nothing new in terms of ghosts. I believe that Charlotte Malkin spoke with Yemi off-island. How this off-island phenomenon works, I don't know.

And I guess I don't really care one way or another. I don't particularly care for ghost stories, but I love Lost and trust that the writers will continue to offer the most interesting and entertaining show on TV.

There's still room to offer a pseudo-scientific explanation for the "ghosts" on Lost. But I agree with those who say that last night's episode was nothing new in terms of ghosts. I believe that Charlotte Malkin spoke with Yemi off-island. How this off-island phenomenon works, I don't know.



Agreed. There doesnt need to be a straight up scientific explanation for it. There are however several theories about crossing planes of time, and if something like that is going on here, then the "ghosts" are not what we think of as ghosts, but people on another plane that are somehow visible, audible, whatever.

I just find it funny that this isnt the first time someone talked to a dead person on Lost but this times its causing such a stir. :shrugs:

I don't have an inherent problem with the character of Miles, just the way he was presented. There has been so much in this show that could be possibly supernatural. There were possibly natural and supernatural explanations for just about everything that happened. What bugs me, is the fact that this is now a confirmed supernatural character, which leads me to believe that just about everything is going to be explained away in that manner. They could've introduced him and set things up that he may have been scamming people with the whole talking to the dead thing, but they confirmed that he can actually do it when he described exactly what happened with Naomi. I'm just frustrated that they decided to ditch the ambiguity that was really a driving factor for me. The possibility that it could natural or supernatural was something that I really liked, but always hoped that everything would've been explained in a natural way.

Someone mentioned in another thread that the three people besides the pilot all had backgrounds in things that DHARMA was working on. I wonder if they are somehow going to tie it in that way? I do think it was strange the way they put him out there, but there must be a reason they included him. I wonder if he is going to have something to do with communicating with Jacob?

I don't think it's a cop out at all. I find it very fascinating. Many, many people believe that you can communicate with the dead, so that wasn't so far out there to be ridiculous. For pete's sake, we've seen freaky Walt, smokey, Jacob and the disappearing cabin, survivors of a clearly fatal plane crash, spontaneous healing - why would Miles communicating with spirits raise such an uproar? Further, we're not sure that the entities on the island are actually dead, but may be trapped between dimensions somehow. There still may be a plausible scientific explanation. FYI, if I recall, Kate told Naomi that Locke was the one who threw the knife in her back. Since Kate and Jack were standing in front of Naomi when it happened, Naomi likely believed her.

Look at the market place. Ghost Whisperer and Medium are successes. Reality shows about Ghost Hunters and psychics abound. When was the last time you saw a show about arcane science?

There will be some science involved before all this is over; Daniel is after all a physicist. But seeing/talking to dead people is far more believed in by the general audience than string theory or even, sadly, the theory of evolution. This is a business and tptb aren't naive in that regard.

Cardie

Kate told Naomi that Locke knifed her in the back-still and all the ghost buster thing is lame for this show-I said on another thread it would be better if he claimed to be a ghost buster and was really a con artist.

I dont know didnt really like the whole Ghostbuster thing! I hope locke or ben kill him!

You nailed it. I became invested in this show due to the prospect of all questions having a logical answer. Then everyone starting showing up in everyone else's backstories for no particular reason, and I knew they'd placed precedence on the cheap thrill, instead of a tightly written story. Now, it just keeps getting looser.

You do realize that characters appearing in other peoples backstories has been happening since the beginning of the show, right?

Sawyer appeared in Boone's flashback in "Hearts and Minds" which was episode 13. Sawyer also meets Christian Sheppard in "Outlaws" which is epsiode 15. We see Hurley on the TV during Jin's flashback in "...In Translation".

I don't see how being able to communicate with the dead (if that's even what we've seen) can be a cop out when in the 3rd episode Jack starts seeing his dead father walking around the island.

Since Naomi never saw where the knife that killed her came from I wasn't sure how she was going to communicate who really killed her to Miles and find the idea of a ghost buster a little silly, but maybe he's there to sniff out what's really going on in Jacob's shack.
Kate told Naomi that John Locke had thrown the knife in the last episode - so if Miles truly communicated with Naomi's spirit she could have passed on this information to him.
On the other hand, like someone said he could be just a con artist and saying this to win the Losties' confidence. There's no absolute proof that he can communicate with ghosts - a smart person would know that a vent is a good place to hide something, for example.

Sawyer appeared in Boone's flashback in "Hearts and Minds" which was episode 13. Sawyer also meets Christian Sheppard in "Outlaws" which is epsiode 15. We see Hurley on the TV during Jin's flashback in "...In Translation".

All of those things could be explained coincidentally. It's not that big of a stretch that Hurley was on TV, and other people saw him. I'm sure you'd all watch me if I won $150 million. It's not a problem with the potential of the events being orchestrated, anyone who's watched the show has to buy in to that. It's the confirmation of the supernatural that I have a problem with. There are ways to rationally explain all these people meeting in back stories. Maybe Dharma and Widmore secretly rule the world and have manipulated all these people their whole lives. That's probably not the case, but it could be. There's no way to explain Miles talking to the dead except for a supernatural cause. I guess that's my real problem. They were lazy and didn't craft the introduction of his character with any semblance of ambiguity. He can talk to the dead. Period.

As I said before, if they had even put the potential out there that he was conning that woman in his backstory, I would really like the character.

I'm always so surprised to see how many people are upset and shocked that supernatural elements are in the show - as if they haven't been there from the beginning? Like, everyone totally forgot about Walt's "abilities" when the possibility of Desmond seeing the future was first introduced.

So, no, I don't think it's a cop out. It's the same Lost it always was.

In answer to the OP - no, I don't think it's a cop out. We've seen enough 'apparitions' on this show that being introduced to a character who can talk to them direct is no big surprise. Whereas Locke talked to Boone using the Sweat Lodge, Miles clearly went through some kind of process in order to talk to the boy. Same difference really. You can argue that the island created Locke's vision of Boone, or argue any other explanation, but if you believe that Locke talked to Boone (and it wasn't simply in Locke's head) then you already believed that it was possible to communicate with the dead long before Miles showed up.

This show will explain those things though. I don't think it will ask you to simply 'Believe!'. Miles' ability won't be left without an explanation, and it will fit with what we've already been shown. Not everything has be down to the supernatural, but the writers may be attempting to provide us with their scientific take on why supernatural phenomena occur.

Agreed. There doesnt need to be a straight up scientific explanation for it. There are however several theories about crossing planes of time, and if something like that is going on here, then the "ghosts" are not what we think of as ghosts, but people on another plane that are somehow visible, audible, whatever.

I just find it funny that this isnt the first time someone talked to a dead person on Lost but this times its causing such a stir. :shrugs:

Diabolo seems to be on the same track as me. The 'ghosts' don't have to be ghosts as we traditionally think of them. As I've said - the writers have their own (possibly very scientific) explanation.

Well done to the man who stated that Lost is sci-fi. Sci-fi often relies on us believing the unbelievable.

I found it very disturbing. I mean, the Miles character actually requires us to believe in ghosts, not only on the island, which is something we have been contemplating du to the whispers, but also out the outside world. That is really a huge move in the supernatural direction that i dislike.

This show also requires us to believe that polar bears can exist on tropical islands. It asks us to believe that Richard Alpert does not age. I has shown us a man, Jacob, who apparently flashes in and out of physical existence. Expect the unexpected. As I said to Civi Got Lost, I really think that all of these things will fall in with the explanation that is revealed as we move toward Lost's endgame.

Peace
M

P.S. I confess to believing in 'ghosts'. I spoke to one once. So there you go - I'm biased ;)

Seeing Hurley on TV is the easiest part to call coincidence, although I dont know why that would have been broadcast all the way to Asia. But what about all the encounters with dead people that have happened? Christian, Boone, Shannon, Yemi? Its hard to explain any of that with science. Well unless you are willing to say everyone who has spoken or seen dead people is delusional. But Yemi came with a message, along with others who were dead. Eko saw and heard Yemi too. I guess seeing it from the other side is what makes it different.

All of those things could be explained coincidentally. It's not that big of a stretch that Hurley was on TV, and other people saw him. I'm sure you'd all watch me if I won $150 million. It's not a problem with the potential of the events being orchestrated, anyone who's watched the show has to buy in to that. It's the confirmation of the supernatural that I have a problem with. There are ways to rationally explain all these people meeting in back stories. Maybe Dharma and Widmore secretly rule the world and have manipulated all these people their whole lives. That's probably not the case, but it could be. There's no way to explain Miles talking to the dead except for a supernatural cause. I guess that's my real problem. They were lazy and didn't craft the introduction of his character with any semblance of ambiguity. He can talk to the dead. Period.

As I said before, if they had even put the potential out there that he was conning that woman in his backstory, I would really like the character.

Well, the part about the crossovers was meant for the guy who said he was invested in the show but then they started doing all these crossovers when in fact they've been there from the beginning.

I guess I don't see why that if Miles can speak with the dead and you not liking it makes it a cop out.

Charlie also appeared to Hurley. Off-island. Post-death. Hurley's apparent mental problems may explain that, but another patient saw Charlie. He was as real as Abaddon, who was seen by the nurse.

I guess I don't see why that if Miles can speak with the dead and you not liking it makes it a cop out.

It's not the fact that Miles can speak with the dead that I think is a cop out, I have no problem with that at all. If the answers to all the show's questions have supernatural answers, I'm perfectly fine with that.

What I think is a cop out, is introducing the character and flat out saying that he talks to the dead. There's no wiggle room, no uncertainty, no questioning. Every time they've introduced a character before, there have always been questions about them.The way they structured his flashback (everything happening with the "ghost" in a room by himself) and him talking to Naomi (having information he previously did not know), does not leave much speculation that he can't talk to the dead. I think it's somewhat shallow character developement, and I've come to expect more from Lost. That's all.

Let me repeat: I have NO problem with supernatural answers. I have problems with lazy writers.

If you think about it, miles is really indicative of Eli Straum's style, in terms of his color and lights usage. It really calls to light the effective cinematographic inventions of Orson Wells. The sled in this instance maybe aptly described as Jack and John's battle where one is homeward bound and one is bound by home. More appropriately, the "freighties" seem to represent the yin and yang dividing the line between the protagonists and the antagonists. The use of character ambiguity effectively serves as the foreshadowing of war.

Love,
Daniel

Why are so many of you accepting Miles "ghost whispering" at face value? He could well be another con man. There could also be some kind of DHARMA connection involved.

But Miles is a con artist. He could just be psychic and have intuited where the money was, rather than having a big convo with the kid. And all we know is that he said Naomi confirmed Kate's story. The viewer, in the room with him, never hears the dead speak.

So if all you're worried about is ambiguity, there's plenty to go around, although I do think that Miles is another "special" one that the island wanted to get hold of.

Cardie

It's not the fact that Miles can speak with the dead that I think is a cop out, I have no problem with that at all. If the answers to all the show's questions have supernatural answers, I'm perfectly fine with that.

But you said earlier that the introduction of Miles meant that things could end up being explained entirely by supernatural explanations, and that you weren't happy with that (post #12)

What I think is a cop out, is introducing the character and flat out saying that he talks to the dead. There's no wiggle room, no uncertainty, no questioning. Every time they've introduced a character before, there have always been questions about them.The way they structured his flashback (everything happening with the "ghost" in a room by himself) and him talking to Naomi (having information he previously did not know), does not leave much speculation that he can't talk to the dead. I think it's somewhat shallow character developement, and I've come to expect more from Lost. That's all.

True, but I don't see the difference between introducing Miles as a 'ghostwhisperer' and having Hurley talking to a Charlie who was clearly there.

Whether it's introduced right at the start or at a later point, surely it's all bad charcter development according to what you've said?`

It's not the fact that Miles can speak with the dead that I think is a cop out, I have no problem with that at all. If the answers to all the show's questions have supernatural answers, I'm perfectly fine with that.

What I think is a cop out, is introducing the character and flat out saying that he talks to the dead. There's no wiggle room, no uncertainty, no questioning. Every time they've introduced a character before, there have always been questions about them.The way they structured his flashback (everything happening with the "ghost" in a room by himself) and him talking to Naomi (having information he previously did not know), does not leave much speculation that he can't talk to the dead. I think it's somewhat shallow character developement, and I've come to expect more from Lost. That's all.

Let me repeat: I have NO problem with supernatural answers. I have problems with lazy writers.

So, if Miles can talk to the dead and there is no ambiguity in the matter, you feel like that's a cop out, lazy writing or shallow character development? We'll have to agree to disagree.

I don't even think it was 100% definitively shown that Miles can speak with the dead, even though I'm hoping he can because I love supernatural / sci-fi stuff.

I didn't really mind the ghost talking stuff, but I think I can see where a few peoples ire is up. I think the point they are trying to make is this:

all of the other "dead" people & possibly supernatural stuff we have seen and the folks we have seen communicate with/experience them had this huge air of ambiguity crafted around them such that it could be explained by mechanizations, the mysteries of the island itself - whatever they turn out to be, true paranormal stuff or a combination (did Locke really see and talk to Walt, or was it the island, jacob, smokie; Claire's psychic, was he conning her on behalf of someone else or really see what he said; Yemi and Eco, did Walt kill the birds thru his power or coincidence, etc)

in the scenes with Miles, it was much more slanted to him having the ability, and no real ambiguity - I think people are bit upset because they are concerned that the writers are going to a) do away with with any scientific and just now use supernatural as cannon & b) that they aren't mysteries then anymore- they are just simply supernatural experiences. I think many of us were hoping for more hybrid, But more importantly they have kept us hooked on the possibility that in some cases it is more than just supernatural and so are they going the way of all these mysteries we were wondering about for years are really just "oh people with special powers" cuz that feels like a different story than the one we've been watching.

personally, I don't think thats what they are implying or the way its going to go, but I can see how it came across this way and would be disappointing.

I hated the ghost whisperer part at first, & wrote a blog about it here:
http://thatpants.blogspot.com/2008/02/open-letter-to-lost.html
In thinking about it again, I guess I've been okay with all of the other supernatural elements of Lost up until this point (&, it's true, Miles very well may be a con artist)...I think it's just frustrating to have yet another mystery introduced to us, with so little of the current mysteries being addressed. I'm hoping that Michael & Walt show up soon (& there seem to be many hints that they will), which would be at least one of the buried ideas coming back to life.

Since Naomi never saw where the knife that killed her came from I wasn't sure how she was going to communicate who really killed her to Miles and find the idea of a ghost buster a little silly, but maybe he's there to sniff out what's really going on in Jacob's shack.

yeah i kinda felt the same way!

when he came back and said to Dan that they didnt kill her....i was like "wait a sec, she didnt see Locke, for all she knows Kate and Jack could have planned it".... and also he didnt respond to Naomis "ghost" like he did the grandson, there was no conversation, or talking out load to Naomi...which i thought was weird....he might be a fake....or he might be like Whoopie Goldberg in GHOST!

who knows!

Why are so many of you accepting Miles "ghost whispering" at face value? He could well be another con man. There could also be some kind of DHARMA connection involved.

Here's my take on that:-

Miles' 'ghostwhispering' is real. He wasn't conning anyone. Well, certainly not the boy's mother.

There was no apparent ambiguity in

Miles "Which room is it?"
Woman "It's upstairs at the end of the hall."

Miles told her not to come upstairs. He then turned on his machine, either to cover up what he was saying to the boy, or to open some kind of communication channel with him. Miles then appeared to go through some kind of change. He told the boy that he was causing his grandmother pain by staying. He then told the boy that telling him the money's location was the only way that would stop. All of this was told entirely from Miles' perspective. There was no ambiguity. None of it was done to benefit the grandmother in order to maintain the illusion. Miles was clearly aware of what was happening, and he found the money.

The only 'person' that Miles conned was the boy. The 'ghost'. Miles persuaded the boy to tell him where the money was so that, presumably, the boy could leave whatever limbo he was in and journey onwards, safe in the knowledge that the money would be given to his grandmother. "You may go now". The ghost left believing that his grandmother would get the money.

Miles then kept it for himself, thereby conning the ghost.

Naomi described Miles to Abaddon as a 'ghostbuster'. She didn't question this, although she did go to lengths to question Abaddon's logic of sending the 4 out as a team. Abaddon must trust Miles' ability in order to send him out there.

As I said though, I'm biased ;)

There is more to Miles than him being able to talk to ghosts,maybe he has an ability to communicate with people from a parallel time/alternative world.

maybe when he does this communication there are subtle changes to the world.

that would maybe explain the photoframes changing


http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/715/lostqg6.jpg

I think it is part of a larger con being run by Abaddon to get Miles into the group. Perhaps Miles thinks that he can speak to the dead, but also, consider that the whole situation could easily be set up: the money planted, the knock, et cetera by Abbadon and his people. The only person we know for sure who Abbadon has communicated the plan to is Naomi.

We don't know exactly how Miles got in touch with the grandmother, or who she is working with/for - if any one. Same would seem to hold true for the number that the pilot dialed, as well as the archeology dig, both of these could've easily been set up by the Abaddon clan to prove something to their prospective travellers. In the case of he pilot, remmeber that his TV "went on the fritz" for a moment, and then came back - a clue?

I really hope this is how it plays out, because speaking to the dead and finding thousands of dollars in the wall is pretty ridiculous.

-bagua

Is anyone else worried that the introduction of the new Asian character, Miles, is leading up to a complete cop-out by the whole Lost team? So much of the show can be easily explained by supernatural causes (Jacob, Black Smoke, Invisible Island, the Numbers, etc.). Nothing in this show has been confirmed as supernatural, and then all of a sudden Ghostbuster Jr. comes along and can talk to the dead. I really liked the episode, but was really hoping that they'd have a rational, logical explanation for everything that happened.

I personally feel like Miles' ghostbusting/death-talking thing could be interesting. I highly doubt it'll answer all the supernatural questions, but we might learn more about what death really is on the Island. Miles might start to feel some strange occurrences and realize that something is up with the deaths. Maybe Jacob/the cabin will even come into play.

(But I wouldn't worry about everything suddenly being explained. This is Lost!)

If it's a set up by Abaddon then why wasn't the Pilot wearing his wedding ring in the Pilot in season 1? He also wasn't wearing it in the deleted scene between he and Claire (although that scene isn't considered canon).

What would be the reason for sending Miles to the island if he doesn't have any apparent ability? The other three do, although of course they're not involved in professions that could be called unbelievable. Also, how was Daniel coerced into going to the island? Charlotte could have been set up by the placing of the polar bear, but where was the setting-up of Daniel?

Of course...

This image (from the pilot, of the pilot's hands) shows that a ring IS there.

http://http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6wN-sBE6iI/AAAAAAAATZ0/6qdTdVKcW6w/s640/seths_ring.JPG

Of course...

This image (from the pilot, of the pilot's hands) shows that a ring IS there.

http://http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6wN-sBE6iI/AAAAAAAATZ0/6qdTdVKcW6w/s640/seths_ring.JPG

Your link doesnt work (at least for me)

So taking all this into account I think it's highly plausible that someone with either a higher natural talent for this stuff or sufficient training could communicate with the deceased in a rational and scientific way.

What do you think?

I think that's a darn well-written post and I think it made me ease up a slight bit reading it. I'm STILL suspicious of their inclusion of the actual deceased/departed soul real ghost thing from this episode, and still a little worried that it will be used to explain some of the other things going on in the island where other explanations are... perhaps more intriguing or different?

All the same, though, if the appropriateness of ghosts is at question in this thread I think you are probably correct as well in relating what you said about people who are related and those kinds of connections. Things like twins being connected mentally or psychically, that sort of thing... and we do of course have Richard Malkin, the psychic. Except he claims to Eko he's a fraud - but we also have that weird bit about his daughter coming back to life as well so... then again, it COULD be something that was very subtle in the past and, I do believe the writers know where they're going, it just still was quite a shock to me.

Still, if Lost is actually a show about connections between people, and the levels of reality... then i guess ghostbusting isn't a horrible addition albeit new and terrifying to those like me who don't see answers coming anytime soon =)

I watched the Pilot about half an hour ago and couldn't spot the ring. As always, I'm happy to be proven wrong. Your link isn't working for me though

Thanks
M

I've always been thinking that it was like the old Quantum Leap show, where people (kids, animals) could see Sam as he was because of their brain waves matching a certain pattern.

I was thinking that Miles has the same ability as Desmond to see flashes of the future, or perhaps past (in a time and place where he wasn't present) and that he has learned to control these flashes and exploit them for his own gain. The "ghost whispering" is just part of the con to keep his ability secret.

I think there's a lot more to the fact that the picture frames on the wall changed then people understand. They made a point to show us these pictures twice. What is the purpose of them changing? I think that will be an important aspect to this flashback.

I agree about the frames - I wonder if Miles somehow inadvertently did something to change the frames via some kind of time travel situation when he was in the boy's bedroom.

There are so many great possibilities and ways they can take this story.

That is the problem with the ability to see dead people. The writers can now introduce anthing and make it plausible. Two head guys with hair still on the top of their hends but their faces are upside down. Scully is only a few episodes away

When Miles entered the supposedly haunted room and started talking, what he said just didn't fit the situation. He almost sounded sarcastic as he started out - as if he knew what he was talking to wasn't the woman's grandson. And it doesn't sound to me like he's trying to convince it to leave as much as he's trying to convince it to give up a secret. "I would like to tell your grandmother that you've gone, but I can't do that until you tell me where it is." And then, after he finds the hidden spot, almost as an after thought as he leaves the room, "Oh, you can leave now." It sounds like whatever he was talking to was waiting for permission before leaveing! Maybe whatever it is was sent there to haunt the room and discover the stache and then Miles came to find the stache...

Then, on the Island, when he supposedly speaks to Naomi, why is he so confidant that Kate told the truth and Locke killed Naomi? Naomi didn't know for sure, so why would talking with her spirit confirm this for him? Maybe he got the info from another source...

I don't really know what this would mean... What do you think?

It's only a guess, but I figure after your dead. You may have the insite to know what happened to you.

I don't think Miles cared if the ghost in that room left or not.All he wanted was the money.

Now I'm wondering how much money it was and did that money pay for his trip to the island?

C'mon, I know that they like to mess with the viewers, but isn't speaking with the dead enough? How much convincing do you need? The bedroom AND Naomi? He seemed to let off them pretty quickly after 'talking to her' when he seemed pretty convinced they had killed her right beforehand.

I, for one, am convinced. He's talkin, and they're dead. :)

It's funny, I thought the whole ghost thing was a cop out too--only I thought that after watching TMBTC. The ghost of the 815ers (Christian, Boone, etc) never bothered me. I really liked the Yemi storyline too. But there was just something about Ben's mother's ghost visiting him, followed by the ghostly Jacob in the creepy cabin, that just really rubbed me the wrong way. It all had such a Tales From The Darkside feel to it that seemed like a big step down (in my opinion) for Lost to take.

Eventually I got past it. But my expectations have been lower because of that episode. This time around it didn't bother me, but I am sure that is due to my earlier disappointment.

I just can't accept that they would use ghosts to explain away all the island mysteries that they have so carefully crafted the last few seasons.

I think he is as well, and I believe he is on this mission to speak to the dead on the island. IMO prepare for some of the whispering to come to light.

MrsH - Do they have to be 'ghosts' in the traditional understanding of the term? In my first post on this thread I suggested that we might be seeing the writers attempting to provide a scientific explanation for what we perceive to be apparently supernatural apparitions. The altering of the photo frames is very important. Did we witness time travelling? If so, would it be unreasonable to suggest that 'ghosts' are simply time travellers, rather than the spirits of dead people, and that Miles somehow (possibly through time travelling himself) "crossed paths" (to borrow from Diabolo's post) with another time travellers?

We've seen Desmond do it. We saw him take a physcial object with him (a paint can). Anything's possible in this show, but I think it has always been that way.

M

. . . He almost sounded sarcastic as he started out - as if he knew what he was talking to wasn't the woman's grandson. And it doesn't sound to me like he's trying to convince it to leave as much as he's trying to convince it to give up a secret. "I would like to tell your grandmother that you've gone, but I can't do that until you tell me where it is." And then, after he finds the hidden spot, almost as an after thought as he leaves the room, "Oh, you can leave now." It sounds like whatever he was talking to was waiting for permission before leaveing! Maybe whatever it is was sent there to haunt the room and discover the stache and then Miles came to find the stache...



But before that he told him that he wasn't doing his grandma any good by staying there. in fact he was scaring her.

Now I'm wondering how much money it was and did that money pay for his trip to the island?

Or for the Dharma Initiative...

I think he is special. I don't think one gets a job with Abaddon by being a fake.

I agree about the frames - I wonder if Miles somehow inadvertently did something to change the frames via some kind of time travel situation when he was in the boy's bedroom.


glad somebody is discussing the frames.

i started a thread but it got locked.

when Miles was in the car there was a close up of him turning the key,,just as the radio was saying that 815 had been found,2 months after it was lost.Could this be a visual clue linking Desmond turning a key,2 months after 815 got lost?

So if that flashback was simultaneous with Desmond turning the failsafe,maybe the others were too.

Maybe Dan knew why he was crying,,Des turns the key,and pffft he no longer knows why he was crying.

Frank is watching the TV,,,,Des turns the key and pffft the TV goes all snowy,,maybe before the keyturn the pilot had on a ring,afterwards..no ring

i cant think of even a tenous link for Charlottes flashback

When we saw dead people before there was always a twist or a feeling that it wasn't a ghost because they were physically there and it wasn't really them. I think you know what I mean when on Lost the appearance of the dead always felt like somehow it wasn't a ghost, that it was more of a vision or possibly a doppleganger.

This whole thing is the jump the shark moment with the common run of the mill medium type of ghostbuster. I hated it and I have a very bad feeling the writers are building in the generic supernatural elements to write themselves out of a corner with smokey and jacob.

Things being supernatural is NOT an answer. Supernatural is basically a way to describe the unexplainable i.e. a non-answer. If we are expected to follow clues that lead to logical conclusions the answers will need to be substantial.

Of course...

This image (from the pilot, of the pilot's hands) shows that a ring IS there.

http://http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R6wN-sBE6iI/AAAAAAAATZ0/6qdTdVKcW6w/s640/seths_ring.JPG

Yep. You can see it when he hands Jack the radio, and later when he puts the radio down on the seat. I retract what I said before, although I still don't believe that Abaddon has set the four of them up. Miles' ability is genuine.

Michaud - I think you are right, they are not "ghosts" or "spirits" in the traditional sense. I think the changing picture frames were clues to that there was some kind of alteration in the time line. I think Miles is controlling his ability to cross time lines for evil purposes. Not saying this very well, but I think it is something of this nature - not spirit channeling in the traditional sense.
Rebelscum - interesting idea about the keys.

C'mon, I know that they like to mess with the viewers, but isn't speaking with the dead enough? How much convincing do you need? The bedroom AND Naomi? He seemed to let off them pretty quickly after 'talking to her' when he seemed pretty convinced they had killed her right beforehand.

I, for one, am convinced. He's talkin, and they're dead. :)

Gah but it's so lame! We're all just hoping that it's actually something else is all.

I think the whole "Oh and you can go." was just to show us how much of a jerk he was.

What I think is a cop out, is introducing the character and flat out saying that he talks to the dead. There's no wiggle room, no uncertainty, no questioning. Every time they've introduced a character before, there have always been questions about them.The way they structured his flashback (everything happening with the "ghost" in a room by himself) and him talking to Naomi (having information he previously did not know), does not leave much speculation that he can't talk to the dead. I think it's somewhat shallow character developement, and I've come to expect more from Lost. That's all.

I don't think that the character of Miles Straume is all that crystal clear. Actually, I find none of the 4 new characters introduced in Confirmed Dead to be plain or prone to easy labelling. We don't know much about them. But speaking of Miles only now, I find his attitude interesting and the character quite mysterious (why did he not want Faraday to say his full name, for example?).

Despite what we have seen in Miles's flashback and on the island with Naomi, I'm not that ready to be convinced about his supposed "powers" and I am left intrigued enough to keep giving a damn about him (which, to me, is a sign of a decently-written character). As for Lost in general, I'm going to watch all of it until the end, no matter what.

Cheers,
Rick

i would only consider it a cop out if the writers hadn't dropped so many hints since season 1 that there were ghosts on the island, or that walt had some sort of telekinetic power. if anything, i consider it a payoff that we're finally getting confirmation that these things exist in the world of Lost.

...is that we now know for sure that the writers of Lost are including ghosts in the plotline. This was debated at some length at the end of last season when some speculated whether Jacob might possibly be a ghost or not. But it appears that with the appearance of an actual ghost hunter in the list of characters that we now can say with certainty that including ghosts in the theories and explanations for things in the plot is open game.

I agree. Ghost are now relevant to the central story in lost hopeful this will lead to more info on Jacob.

Yea he's a jerk. Think he uses his power to speak to the dead to help himself financialy.

Yah my guess is that they want to use him to possibly figure out the whispers everyone hears in the woods and/or try to tap into what the Smoke Monster is. Could even be there to try to tap into why people see dead people.

I have a feeling no one from Dharma or the outside world knows about Jacob... only the Others and some of the Losties know of him.

I happen to agree with your conclusion, just not your line of reasoning:
Isn't this kind of contradictory? You say ghosts can not harm people, but go on to say that poltergeists, which are a type of ghost, can?
Since when are there "laws" of the supernatural? Last time I checked, not everyone believes in ghosts, and even those that do can not agree on their form of existence. There are no laws of the supernatural in real life and the ones that exist in tv shows are made up by the writers. If TPTB decide that Smokey is the psychic manifestation of the island sent by Jacob the ghost to do his bidding, then that is what he/it will be. We may not like it, but we will not be able to say that they "broke" any "laws" of the supernatural in the process.


Ok I didn't contradict anything. If you actually would have paid attention to what I said about the poltergeists being able to cause harm to people you would know that. I said that ghosts cannot harm people, but poltergeists, which we all know are a completely different kind of ghost altogether, can possibly cause things to happen in which people are harmed by their actions. It's simply a difference between two separate entities, not a contradiction.

Concerning the comment made about the "laws" of the supernatural...I didn't mean necessarily that there was a set in stone group of laws binding what elements of the supernatural are possible and what are not, I guess I could have said rules or something but it doesn't matter because you're missing the point. I was simply stating that there ARE rules that most of the time must be followed. That's all it was ok. And I'm sure people professionally involved would be able to tell us about these actual laws if they exist, so I'm not ruling out anything. Also just because there are some people who may not believe in some things involving supernatural phenomena doesn't make any less relevant. It is still something that is happening on the island and must be recognized if you don't want to be extremely disappointed in the future.

Let's try this again.

Malkin was not a psychic. He had no ACTUAL powers. What he ACTUALLY was, was a fraud. Which he admitted in a later episode.That was what he told Eko, but what we have seen on the show indicates otherwise. Also,

in the LOST season 3 DVDs there is discussion of an earlier draft of The Brig in which Malkin appears on the Island along with Cooper, so he clearly has a larger part in the mythology. Likely he is another person manipulating the causality of events like Mrs. Hawking and Brother Matthew.

Isaac was not a healer. He too, admitted he had no powers, but was the location that did the healing.Isaac NEVER said he did not have any powers. He said that he uses the energy of Uluru to heal people, but to me that doesn't imply that anybody could do the same thing. It takes someone "special," like Isaac, to do it, just as there are other special people on Lost with other abilities.

My point is that people are jumping to conclusions about the "ghostbusting" scene without even giving Miles's character a chance to play out. This is not the first time we've been confronted with supernatural circumstances, and certainly not the first time characters have spoken with the dead.

When we saw dead people before there was always a twist or a feeling that it wasn't a ghost because they were physically there and it wasn't really them. I think you know what I mean when on Lost the appearance of the dead always felt like somehow it wasn't a ghost, that it was more of a vision or possibly a doppleganger.

This whole thing is the jump the shark moment with the common run of the mill medium type of ghostbuster. I hated it and I have a very bad feeling the writers are building in the generic supernatural elements to write themselves out of a corner with smokey and jacob.

Things being supernatural is NOT an answer. Supernatural is basically a way to describe the unexplainable i.e. a non-answer. If we are expected to follow clues that lead to logical conclusions the answers will need to be substantial.

I totally agree with you! Although like I stated above, I started getting that cheap ghost vibe back in TMBTC. I felt like Richard' s interest in Ben was strictly based on Ben's ability to communicate with the dead, and thus that Ben would be able to communicate with Jacob their ghostly leader. The whole thing really rubbed me the wrong way.

Is anyone else worried that the introduction of the new Asian character, Miles, is leading up to a complete cop-out by the whole Lost team? So much of the show can be easily explained by supernatural causes (Jacob, Black Smoke, Invisible Island, the Numbers, etc.). Nothing in this show has been confirmed as supernatural, and then all of a sudden Ghostbuster Jr. comes along and can talk to the dead. I really liked the episode, but was really hoping that they'd have a rational, logical explanation for everything that happened. :drowsy:

After recovering from the Pikki era, TPTB have my undivided attention. I don't think there is a cop-out bone in their body. Besides, even if this is about Miles simply talking to ghosts, it is only one element and will not become THE mystery of or answer to the Island.

Perhaps the trees are obscuring the forest...

Yah my guess is that they want to use him to possibly figure out the whispers everyone hears in the woods and/or try to tap into what the Smoke Monster is. Could even be there to try to tap into why people see dead people.

Well yeah, ghosts have been present in Lost since day one, we just haven't realized it. Off the top of my head I can think of when Jack sees his father in the first season and when Ana Lucia's ghost speaks to Eko in a dream in season 2.

Oh yeah, and the whole Boone communicating with Locke thingie from season 3.

Considering that I'm not sure how else they would tie that up besides getting someone to talk to these spirits.

But then again this is Lost and for all we know Miles will be killed by smokey in 4 episodes time:)

Glad you liked my post Canand!

Well yeah, ghosts have been present in Lost since day one, we just haven't realized it.

Exactly. Up until this episode there was still the element of doubt about whether what we were observing were ghosts or some other thing. But now we know for sure that there are ghosts in Lost. Either that or Miles knew already that there was drug money in the house, and knew precisely where to find it in the wall, and we were shown all the ghostbuster stuff just to throw us off. But I doubt that is the case.

Ok I just wanted to let everyone know. I guess I'm being punished for something because a post of mine was taken out of here AND someone changed the title to this thread. I DO NOT think this storyline is a cop out first of all ok. I like the storyline, I started this thread in response to the people who don't agree with it and think that it is a cop out. So please ignore the title. The original title was "Don't worry Miles is not an easy way out"....I responded to someone who posted something in my thread and accused me of doing something I did not do so I simply responded to him and I guess the monitors of this forum thought I was arguing. If so I am sorry, I do not wish to deter from discussing LOST in this thread and I didn't mean to become argumentative I was just responding and defending my view on the subject. Plus I was accused of meaning something I did not mean and all I was doing was explaining that. Oh well..ANYWAY I LOVE LOST and don't wish to get off subject. So with that I like this plot twist a lot and am glad they are going in this direction with things. I have always thought there was an element of the supernatural involved with LOST, especially after Jacob, so I'm glad they are making that more evident now.

Rorrim,
I don't know, I'm just guessing, but it might be that your Thread has been merged with an existing one on the same topic. That would explain the change in title. It happens quite a lot on the Ep-specific boards because there are so many people posting and starting threads at the same time.

But like I say, I'm just guessing.

Thanks for the help Lucidity. I just wrote a thread to the administrators though in that section and just asked them about it and apologized if I did something wrong. I'm just kind of confused. But hopefully that will be cleared up. I don't like the title being "cop out" though...I definitely don't think it is a cop out.

Lucidity is right, your thread was merged for being a duplicate. The title that stays is the one that started the thread first. Also there is no need to post in the admin section, you can report one of your posts with your concerns next time. We get the message that way faster. I still don't know what you are talking about someone posting their name in red tho.

Ok so they merged my thread with another because they are very similar topics. I don't like this though because the guy who write Cop Out disagrees and I do not. My thread was for reassurance purposes to the people who think this storyline with Miles is an easy way out. I have to disagree with that and that was my whole point.

It's going to be ok everyone. The writers know what they are doing. And just because Miles is here now does not mean it is any kind of cop out. I mean I can understand people being cautious and thinking it may be possible. But even if there is some supernatural element involved in the eventual explanation of certain unresolved issues, I don't think it will be done in a way that will disappoint. I mean this is LOST and unless you just don't like anything about it but are still watching for some reason, you mostly likely are going to be satisfied with whatever they do. I have hope, and I know most of you have some as well.

100%
Well in the post that I mentioned of the other guy, he had quoted my original post. And in the part that says...Originally posted by blank....my name was there of course but it was in red instead of the normal white. I thought that was strange so I just figured that meant I was in trouble or something....lol....I don't know I'm still learning about the specifics of the whole posting in a forum thing.
100%
THANK YOU very much for the name change....much better!!!!!!!!!!!
100%
OOOOOOHHHHHHHH that's why it was red. LOL I feel like an idiot. Thanks guys for your help!!!!! AND thank you very much for changing the title to the post. The one you picked is perfect. I didn't realize they were merged. That makes sense. I was wondering why there were so many posts....I was like I don't remember having that many...has there been that many today only????.....lol....but no most of them are from his thread....lol. Oh well. At least people are responding to the general topic and that was my original intention. Again thanks for your help!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know why anyone has a problem with Miles. Yeah he's a snarky twit but it's not like we haven't seen that before --- a snarky con man? :rolleyes:

Oh wait they'd rather have no supernatural explanations. UHH excuse me this is LOST
It's always been bent toward that somewhat. Smoke monsters and Locke who predicts weather, Desmond who has a psychic hotline, visions of Jack's dad, Mr. Echo's bro, and Kate's horse. Do people think science explains them --- Post traumatic stress right?

Personally I can't wait to see Miles confront the whispers or Smokey. Will he hear anything? Will he hear dead people --- say Christian telling Dr Jack about a sibling?

Yeah the vacuum was --- gimmicky. I just thought it was a noise filter so he could hear what he wanted to. I thought the ghost buster name was more a joke on us because Drew knew we'd end up calling Miles that.

Ok I have noticed that there are a considerable amount of you out there that didn't like the new Miles character and his occupation as a ghostbuster. I actually liked it a lot. I can understand people being weary of that though, thinking that the writers might have an easy way out now with explaining things like Jacob and the monster. But just think about it like this. Let's take Jacob and the monster. Judging from the way Ben has talked about Jacob and the way The Others regarded him, I seriously doubt he's something like a ghost. I did mention one time in another post that it's a possibiltiy he could be a poltergiest, but that was just speculation. I do think there is some element of the supernatural involved, but I don't think it's anything close to him simply being just a ghost. That would be boring and predictable. I don't think the writers would disappoint everyone in saying simply that Jacob is a ghost...it just doesn't add up that way anyway he would be a pretty weird ghost.

And as for the monster....come on now how could that thing possibly be a ghost in the first place???? There is no explanation they could give me that would convince me that it's a ghost. FIRST OF ALL...ghosts CANNOT harm people, they cannot cross over into the real world and inflict harm on living, breathing people. Poltergeists can cause harm to people, but ONLY by harnessing anger in the supernatural realm and transferring it to energy in the real world when it gets built up enough, causing tangible objects to move around, which could cause harm to living people. Also poltergeists aren't visible to the naked eye, cannot make audible noises and certainly cannot conform themselves into illusionary beings, and if they could in any way I doubt it would be as a big cloud of smoke that makes mechanical noises and kills people randomly. Granted things are different on the island, but I seriously doubt it could change a spirit to the point of breaking EVERY law of the supernatural.

ALSO, what if he isn't something as simple as a ghostbuster?? What if he's more than that, someone who can possibly communicate with people not just trapped in limbo or the other side altogether, dead people, but with those that are trapped possibly in other dimensions? That would be interesting. Just because he had that vacuum-looking thing doesn't mean it's necessarily a ghost-busting tool and if you think about it, he really didn't tell the woman whose house he was in much at all about what he was doing. He was very short and vague and whatever he was doing didn't take long at all. We weren't given much with this guy, definitely not enough to just assume that the writers are introducing him as a way to get themselves out of explaining two of the biggest mysteries of LOST.

So rest assured people, the writers know that we are anticipating something sufficiently shocking and unexpected in the explanations of Jacob and the monster and I doubt the introduction of this new character is confirmation of them doing the opposite. Granted I could be wrong, I don't claim to know everything, I just hope I am right. I'm sure most of you would agree. I guess we will find out.





You mentioned that smokey couldn't be a ghost, because ghost's can't cross over into the real world, etc. , but I also thought that polar bears didn't exist on tropical islands until this show came around! This show has taught me to expect the unexpected for some time now.......to say smokey is definitely 100% not a ghost is to say you haven't watched much Lost , or something?! Just sayin!

I am under the belief he isn't a 110% ghost whisperer anyway....I believe he went to Walt's grandmothers, but Walt isn't dead yet therefore he was communicating with Walt's projection----------Naomi believes he is a Ghostbuster but infact he has a connection with the Island somehow

yeah i kinda felt the same way!

when he came back and said to Dan that they didnt kill her....i was like "wait a sec, she didnt see Locke, for all she knows Kate and Jack could have planned it".... and also he didnt respond to Naomis "ghost" like he did the grandson, there was no conversation, or talking out load to Naomi...which i thought was weird....he might be a fake....or he might be like Whoopie Goldberg in GHOST!

who knows!

Kate told Naomi that Locke was the one that knifed her in the back. Right before Naomi gave distress signal in the phone.

There is more to Miles than him being able to talk to ghosts,maybe he has an ability to communicate with people from a parallel time/alternative world.

maybe when he does this communication there are subtle changes to the world.

that would maybe explain the photoframes changing

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/715/lostqg6.jpg


Whoa...nice catch, RS...!!

I watched the dang thing TWICE and didn't catch that. Very Cool. And, I'll come back to that in just a minute, but I want to address the INITIAL QUESTION:

Is this Miles thing a cop out? NOPE. Not at all! I think the storyline is great, and I think his character is great. He's cocky and high-strung, (now there's some back story I'd like to see. heh.) and he's pretty funny, too.

"...You're from Oceanic 815!! WOW!! How's that?"
:biggrin:

LOL!! I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE A COUPLE SCENES WITH MILES AND SAWYER...It's gonna be hysterical! (maybe poor BEN won't get beat up for a couple days. heh.)

Well, I don't kinda don't get the cop out stuff. But, hey--it's cool if some of y'all think that. I personally don't, and I think that's cool too, so, I don't think ANYTHING in this show is or ever has been a cop out...!! "Everything happens for a reason"...THE BIG DOGS know what it is. I think we all just gotta buck up and RELAX. ya know? I totally think they know what they're doin' and hey--it's THEIR story...not OURS. If you don't believe in the stuff, cool. If ya do, that's cool, too. But, hey--ya gotta admit--THIS SHOW IS THE BEST THING THAT'S BEEN ON TELEVISION SINCE "TWIN PEAKS". We just gotta let it all play out...

Yeah, there's polar bears in the desert and on a tropical island. There's Smokey, Jacob, and a bunch of people who can get LITERAL DOSSIERS on PLANE PASSENGERS who crashed there...the numbers. The Dharma Inititiave. Rose's cancer is supposedly gone. Sun & Jin are pregnant. LOCKE CAN WALK. Desmond can see stuff. Walt has some weird thing. The island has properties that people are definitely interested in. Not to mention all the connections, coincidences, tie-ins...I think we've BELIEVED IN A LOT!! (and how much of THAT could be considered Supernatural? or metaphysical or SOMETHING but not normal?)

I'm GLAD that a bunch of people got together, and got this stuff together, and allow us to tag along on the ride with them...THE WRITERS AND DEVELOPERS ARE ASTOUNDING...the story is cool, and hey--it's TELEVISION. ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN. Just kick back and enjoy the ride until 2010...It's gonna be a blast.!!

Yeah, well, I'm a little long-winded...sorry.

Now...back to the RS "picture frame" and the Miles thing in general:

Could the picture frame possibly be "course correction" when something happens one way or the other...ya know? I'm gonna back and watch that scene!! What was the ORDER of the frames in the scene? Was the nicer frame BEFORE OR AFTER he did whatever he did upstairs in that bedroom? Or did someone in the prop/scenery department just decide that the frame (whichever one) was tacky and they changed it, and chalked it up to continuity and/or WE wouldn't notice?

...ya just never know!

As far as the psychic/ghostbuster/ghost whisperer/con man/WHATEVER HE IS thing...I'm not totally convinced WHAT Miles is--YET. And just hear me out. It might all be nonsense, but it might be something that y'all might say...OHHHH YEAH...

----Miles said "his guy at the police station" told him that the lady's grandson was murdered, which is why Miles charged granny 200.00 instead of 100.00... If he was PSYCHIC, wouldn't he have KNOWN this without the assistance of "his guy at the police station"?

----when he gave Granny the cash back, he said "It wasn't as hard AS I THOUGHT IT WAS GONNA BE."...ummmm, okay...wouldn't he have KNOWN that, too?

----if he was, in fact, psychic, wouldn't he also have known (well, I'd think anyway) that Jack & Kate didn't kill Naomi--ya know?

I don't think it's as much PSYCHIC as it might be that he has a "dead ear", or whatever ya wanna call it. You know what I mean, I hope--ya know how the little kid in THE SIXTH SENSE "saw dead people"?-- maybe he only HEARS 'EM. Is that psychic? I don't know...he hasn't talked about FUTURE STUFF. It's all PAST stuff. So, who knows? Maybe Miles has to be in some sort of proximity (near a body, in their room) to get stuff...and maybe that little contraption emits some sort of sound (to cover up moving heavy furniture, OR...) that attracts spirits Y'all think he has that little thing on the island? He "talked" to Naomi okay without it.

...Okay...that's my dos centavos. Hope it all makes sense...it did to ME...heh.

PEACE--Kath

I'm with the shark-jumpers. The introduction of confirmed ghosts (particularly off-island) is in conflict with everything the show has established since Season 1. Every time in the past (at least during the first 2 seasons) when someone has seen a "ghost," it has been accompanied by the possiblity of a rational(-ish) explanation. Jack's father in White Rabbit is a reaction to stress and lack of sleep, Ana-Lucia is a dream, Yemi is a vision created by the smoke monster, etc...

Saying outright that there are indeed ghosts is tantamount to saying "Hey, it's magic!" No explanations are ever needed or given to explain magic, because magic just is.

Good stories keep their plots internally consistent. Parameters established at the beginning must be followed throughout. It's integral to suspension of disbelief. It's why people accept the supernatural in, say, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but wouldn't if it suddenly appeared in The Wire.


Sure, there have been some outlandish things in Lost, and some people clearly started watching the show with the belief that, hey, it's just magic! But I'm with the group who suspended much of their disbelief under the premise that "this is no ordinary island" and the established paradigm that even the craziest of plot developments (Locke can suddenly walk!) will have at least some pseudo-scientific rationale. Polar bears on a tropical island? Dharma brought them there! Locke heals really fast? The electromagnetic anomaly has a healing affect on human physiology!

Ghosts are among us and can talk to people from beyond the grave?

"Yep!" is not a rational answer to this question.


As an aside, I've felt they've been treading very close to the supernatural/scientific line since Desmond's run-in with Ms. Hawking. They came even closer with the poltergeist-like Jacob. But having Miles communing with a dead drug dealer in Inglewood isn't even in the same league. It shouldn't even be in the same series.

I am still clinging, desperately, to the hope that there is some other explanation. Please don't let it just be magic...

After recovering from the Pikki era, TPTB have my undivided attention. I don't think there is a cop-out bone in their body. Besides, even if this is about Miles simply talking to ghosts, it is only one element and will not become THE mystery of or answer to the Island.

Perhaps the trees are obscuring the forest...


AMEN BROTHA!!! (or sister...lol):biggrin:

I'm with the shark-jumpers. The introduction of confirmed ghosts (particularly off-island) is in conflict with everything the show has established since Season 1.


Please tell me where this has been confirmed.

We don't really know anything yet. We've seen some things, but we can't be sure of WHAT we saw.

I'm with the shark-jumpers. The introduction of confirmed ghosts (particularly off-island) is in conflict with everything the show has established since Season 1. Every time in the past (at least during the first 2 seasons) when someone has seen a "ghost," it has been accompanied by the possiblity of a rational(-ish) explanation. Jack's father in White Rabbit is a reaction to stress and lack of sleep, Ana-Lucia is a dream, Yemi is a vision created by the smoke monster, etc...

Saying outright that there are indeed ghosts is tantamount to saying "Hey, it's magic!" No explanations are ever needed or given to explain magic, because magic just is.

Good stories keep their plots internally consistent. Parameters established at the beginning must be followed throughout. It's integral to suspension of disbelief. It's why people accept the supernatural in, say, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but wouldn't if it suddenly appeared in The Wire.


Sure, there have been some outlandish things in Lost, and some people clearly started watching the show with the belief that, hey, it's just magic! But I'm with the group who suspended much of their disbelief under the premise that "this is no ordinary island" and the established paradigm that even the craziest of plot developments (Locke can suddenly walk!) will have at least some pseudo-scientific rationale. Polar bears on a tropical island? Dharma brought them there! Locke heals really fast? The electromagnetic anomaly has a healing affect on human physiology!

Ghosts are among us and can talk to people from beyond the grave?

"Yep!" is not a rational answer to this question.


As an aside, I've felt they've been treading very close to the supernatural/scientific line since Desmond's run-in with Ms. Hawking. They came even closer with the poltergeist-like Jacob. But having Miles communing with a dead drug dealer in Inglewood isn't even in the same league. It shouldn't even be in the same series.

I am still clinging, desperately, to the hope that there is some other explanation. Please don't let it just be magic...

Do all of you REALLY think the writers are going to just say YEAH THAT'S THE ANSWER and be done with it?? At first I just thought it was some LOST fans being worried but now I'm starting to become shocked at the behavior of people who proclaim to be true fans of this show. People you know this show, and you know the writers and producers. This is just the beginning of a very complex and drawn out process. How do we know that the writers aren't doing this on purpose t