So through the first two seasons we saw how many twists of fate it took to get Hurely, Jack, Kate, Sayid, etc on to flight 815. Perhaps they weren't the only ones who were supposed to be there. We Frank, the Captain say he was supposed to be there but wasn't, so now Seth is dead and Frank is on the island where he was supposed to be. We saw Faraday cry at the beginning of the episode, perhaps they all were supposed to be on the flight. The island draws the people there who are supposed to be there.

Interesting, but I don't buy it. I suppose in the long run, they were meant to be there (although, if Jack wasn't meant to make the call off the island and lock was right, which is possible), but given Naomi's disagreement with the selection in the FB, I would have to say that there are other reasons they are on the island, and I definitely can't agree that they were all meant to be passengers on the plane.

After Frank told the Oceanic Supervisor that he was meant to be the pilot on September 22, it made me think of an interesting theory--

what if Frank, Charlotte, Miles, and Daniel were all supposed to be on the plane? It would explain why Daniel was crying when he saw the footage of the plane at the bottom of the ocean and why Charlotte was almost in a way trying to convince herself that it actually crashed. Abbadon said to Naiomi that these four people were selected for a reason, and that reason is that they were all supposed to be there in the first place.

That is what i was thinking. That is why Niomi died so quickly, she was never ment to be on the island.

Ooh! Good theory and a valid one because people don't end up on that island without some reason behind it.

Oh I like that!

I get the feeling though, that the flashback between Naomi and Abaddon occurred AFTER Abaddon had already recruited the 4 freighters... but the 4 were just kind of waiting for the word. Like, Abaddon had them all getting on 815, but called them back and made them wait until the "Wreckage" was found until they were properly sent away, hence Daniel crying when the wreckage was found... he knew this was his cue to go on some crazy suicide mission.

Maybe?

Ooooooooooh, I love this theory, I hope your right, I would love to see why they should have been there, and why they weren't.

Oh, wow. Really good reason for Daniel crying at the beginning (it still confused me, until now), and Frank's reaction as well.

Sort of like a "the island doesn't want them there because they weren't on the plane in the first place" scenario.

Yes, I think this is a fairly good explanation for all of this. Definitely explains Daniel and, obviously, Frank.

OP- I'm not sure about your assessment of Charlotte, though. Her character intrigues me the most out of all of them because she seems to know a lot more about the island than the others do. And she had an encounter with the skeleton of a polar bear in the middle of Tunisia. :D

Oooh, I like this theory.

I'm so glad there are folks smarter than me to think up stuff like this!! That thought never occurred to me...but it makes good sense!

Good work!

It would explain why Daniel was crying when he saw the footage of the plane

Good one! This is the best reason for the crying that I have read on this board.

Perhaps like the pilot, they all called the Oceanic 1-800 number and that is how Abaddon got their names for his recon group.

Great thoughts. Good theory, lets roll with it.

"LOCKE: That's why you and I don't see eye-to-eye sometimes, Jack -- because you're a man of science.
JACK: Yeah, and what does that make you?
LOCKE: Me, well, I'm a man of faith. Do you really think all this is an accident -- that we, a group of strangers survived, many of us with just superficial injuries? Do you think we crashed on this place by coincidence -- especially, this place? We were brought here for a purpose, for a reason, all of us. Each one of us was brought here for a reason.
JACK: Brought here? And who brought us here, John?
LOCKE: The island. The island brought us here. This is no ordinary place, you've seen that, I know you have. But the island chose you, too, Jack. It's destiny."



"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

It could be but I'm not so sure about Daniel. When Daniel starts crying and the lady asks Daniel why he was crying, he said he didn't know. If he was supposed to be a passanger on flight 815 and he missed the flight for some reason then I think he would have said "I was supposed to be on that flight" and that was the reason he was crying.

It could be but I'm not so sure about Daniel. When Daniel starts crying and the lady asks Daniel why he was crying, he said he didn't know. If he was supposed to be a passanger on flight 815 and he missed the flight for some reason then I think he would have said "I was supposed to be on that flight" and that was the reason he was crying.

I agree with you -- I think it would've been the most natural response had that been the case.

I think he was crying because of a connection with 815 and the Island.. him saying "I dont know", is exactly what I would expect him to say.



"dude, you got some Arzt on you"

It could be but I'm not so sure about Daniel. When Daniel starts crying and the lady asks Daniel why he was crying, he said he didn't know. If he was supposed to be a passanger on flight 815 and he missed the flight for some reason then I think he would have said "I was supposed to be on that flight" and that was the reason he was crying.

I agree I don't see why he wouldn't have just said hey I was supposed to be on that flight. I don't think everything has to be revealed in such a mysterious way. So I'm just going to assume if he was suppose to be on that flight that is how he would of responded. Also where was Danny at when he heard the news?

Maybe he didn't want the woman to know he was supposed to be on the flight.

Is that why smokey took the pilot? Because he wasn't supposed to be there.

But why would Abaddon want them on the island of this is true?

Is that why smokey took the pilot? Because he wasn't supposed to be there.

If this is true, perhaps smokey is the reason for our Losties surviving, and it chose not to save the ones who died.

Late in the series, I could imagine a crazy special effects shot of smokey grabbing the Losties out of the sky as the plane comes crashing down, and setting them all down gently and unconsciously, while those who were not meant to survive (or who smokey just didn't have enough tendrils for) are left to die. :eek2:

We saw the survivors wandering around outside of the fuselage and the wreckage. I don't remember anyone inside of the cabin of the plane living through the crash, but it's impossible to tell how long it was between the crash and Jack waking up. I could imagine smokey's tendrils yanking the chosen survivors out of the fuselage as it came down. We saw what it was able to do to Eko. Who knows how far it can extend its reach.

I think he was crying because of a connection with 815 and the Island.. him saying "I dont know", is exactly what I would expect him to say.I][/B]

I would think "That's so sad." would be better and more likely. I think Daniel may have had some Room 23 type treatment like Karl.

I was actually working on a theory along the same lines. Here's part of it:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frank was supposed to be piloting flight 815 the day it crashed. If he had been working, it would not have crashed. The people on board were meant to be on the island, and Frank was the guy that was capable of navigating through whatever force engulfs the island, to bring the plane down safely. He too was meant to be on the island.

Abaddon states that Frank is a competent pilot. This is evidenced by how he sat that helicopter down neatly, in the midst of an electrical storm, in spite of it being struck by lightning.

When Seth Norris took Franks place as pilot that day, the course of fate was altered. Frank was supposed to be on the island and was capable of getting everyone there safely. Seth Norris was not.

Now the course requires correcting. Day one on the island – Seth is "removed" by Smokey. Later, Frank is sent to the island with a new group, to take his intended place there.
Course corrected.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At the time I wrote that, Frank was the only one that stood out to me as "meant to be there". But an anthropologist, a physicist, and a medium - it makes perfect sense that they might have been intended to be on the plane, especially if the plane was meant to land there, and all the people on it were chosen.

Sticking with the course correction idea.... I wonder if 3 of the people who have died there, were NOT meant to be there. Maybe when Charlotte, Dan and Miles didn't make the flight, 3 others took their seats. Then on the island, they were removed because they weren't supposed to be there. (ultimately, people who were killed by Smokey or the island, like Seth and Joanna the professional swimmer who drowned.)

I am also pondering the idea that Charlie's death was another course correction. When Desmond went back to 1996 and interacted with Past Charlie, he said something that caused him NOT to get on the plane. But Island Charlie is already there in the future that Desmond already experienced. So we have two Charlie's in the universe.

It was AFTER Desmond met Charlie that he met Ms. Hawking and got the lecture on fate and course correction. And it was AFTER this time travel event that Desmond began seeing visions of Charlies death. Then when Charlie appears to FutureHurley, he tells him, "I'm dead, but I'm here." Thats because Island Charlie is dead, but Past Charlie went on with life.

FutureCharlie now seems to be an omniscient course-correcting entity like Hawking, trying to guide him back to the island. He may have been the spirit of dead Charlie or a now all-knowing version of Past Charlie. Maybe a combination of the spirit/essence of both somehow. Still pondering that part.

And from another angle, what happens when people who were meant to be there leave? So far we know that Jack has a driving obsession to go back.

Sorry to get a little off topic. But I was going for a theme of people who were meant to be there, and the Island's removal of those who were NOT meant to be there.

If this is true, perhaps smokey is the reason for our Losties surviving, and it chose not to save the ones who died.

Late in the series, I could imagine a crazy special effects shot of smokey grabbing the Losties out of the sky as the plane comes crashing down, and setting them all down gently and unconsciously, while those who were not meant to survive (or who smokey just didn't have enough tendrils for) are left to die. :eek2:

We saw the survivors wandering around outside of the fuselage and the wreckage. I don't remember anyone inside of the cabin of the plane living through the crash, but it's impossible to tell how long it was between the crash and Jack waking up. I could imagine smokey's tendrils yanking the chosen survivors out of the fuselage as it came down. We saw what it was able to do to Eko. Who knows how far it can extend its reach.

This is true. Maybe smokey even pushed the plane off the cliff when Boone was up there. The only thing I forsee that may not add up is that I do not think Smokey can fly very high (Dr. Suds would suggest that this is due to electromagnetic coils under the ground that allow him to levitate). I do not know why he cannot fly high but I know he cannot jump over the sound fence. He has no ups....Maybe he should morph into Michael Jordon.

very good theory man, that hadn't crossed my mind

As a side note, during the scene where Daniel was crying, he kind of came off as an invalid. Someone who is resigned to their home with a caretaker doing everything for them. Like he's sorta mentally incapacitated. I'd really like to find out why someone that clearly unsuited for a commando mission was important enough to send.

I'm not sure. If Daniel was meant to be on the plane, and saw it crash, then why was he crying tears of grief? I know if a plane that I was meant to be on crashed, yes I'd be sad for everyone else but I'd be pretty damn relieved that I wasn't meant to be on that plane. That's an odd reason for crying about the plane crash in my opinion, though I can't think of a better reason.

I was actually working on a theory along the same lines. Here's part of it:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Frank was supposed to be piloting flight 815 the day it crashed. If he had been working, it would not have crashed. The people on board were meant to be on the island, and Frank was the guy that was capable of navigating through whatever force engulfs the island, to bring the plane down safely. He too was meant to be on the island.

Abaddon states that Frank is a competent pilot. This is evidenced by how he sat that helicopter down neatly, in the midst of an electrical storm, in spite of it being struck by lightning.

When Seth Norris took Franks place as pilot that day, the course of fate was altered. Frank was supposed to be on the island and was capable of getting everyone there safely. Seth Norris was not.

Now the course requires correcting. Day one on the island – Seth is "removed" by Smokey. Later, Frank is sent to the island with a new group, to take his intended place there.
Course corrected.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
At the time I wrote that, Frank was the only one that stood out to me as "meant to be there". But an anthropologist, a physicist, and a medium - it makes perfect sense that they might have been intended to be on the plane, especially if the plane was meant to land there, and all the people on it were chosen.

Sticking with the course correction idea.... I wonder if 3 of the people who have died there, were NOT meant to be there. Maybe when Charlotte, Dan and Miles didn't make the flight, 3 others took their seats. Then on the island, they were removed because they weren't supposed to be there. (ultimately, people who were killed by Smokey or the island, like Seth and Joanna the professional swimmer who drowned.)

I am also pondering the idea that Charlie's death was another course correction. When Desmond went back to 1996 and interacted with Past Charlie, he said something that caused him NOT to get on the plane. But Island Charlie is already there in the future that Desmond already experienced. So we have two Charlie's in the universe.

It was AFTER Desmond met Charlie that he met Ms. Hawking and got the lecture on fate and course correction. And it was AFTER this time travel event that Desmond began seeing visions of Charlies death. Then when Charlie appears to FutureHurley, he tells him, "I'm dead, but I'm here." Thats because Island Charlie is dead, but Past Charlie went on with life.

FutureCharlie now seems to be an omniscient course-correcting entity like Hawking, trying to guide him back to the island. He may have been the spirit of dead Charlie or a now all-knowing version of Past Charlie. Maybe a combination of the spirit/essence of both somehow. Still pondering that part.

And from another angle, what happens when people who were meant to be there leave? So far we know that Jack has a driving obsession to go back.

Sorry to get a little off topic. But I was going for a theme of people who were meant to be there, and the Island's removal of those who were NOT meant to be there.

Wow. Just wow. That's some interesting stuff there. I like it. I need to think about this some more, lol.

If this is true, perhaps smokey is the reason for our Losties surviving, and it chose not to save the ones who died....
I could imagine smokey's tendrils yanking the chosen survivors out of the fuselage as it came down. We saw what it was able to do to Eko. Who knows how far it can extend its reach.

Apparently not far enough to reach over the sonic fence and kicks someone's butt.

I think that Abaddon (just like Penny) saw something (a blip on a radar, maybe) when the hatch blew and that is why he found the island. The people he recruited might have vested interest in finding Ben, but mostly I think the are just people Abaddon found that he could easily persuade.

Apparently not far enough to reach over the sonic fence and kicks someone's butt.


Yup.

And apparently being around explosions (like a plane blowing up) isn't smokies forte (ala the dynamite in S1's finale)

I think that Abaddon (just like Penny) saw something (a blip on a radar, maybe) when the hatch blew and that is why he found the island. The people he recruited might have vested interest in finding Ben, but mostly I think the are just people Abaddon found that he could easily persuade.

I really don't think Abbadon is working for his own interests. He is definitely just the goto-guy for a larger authority.

great theory about the "course correction".

the first thing that popped into my head was the that the reason Miles was supposed to be be on the flight was that he was originally supposed to be in australia to "read" richard malkin's (the psychic) dead daughter but before he could board a plane she woke up and eko was called instead, hence the course correcting.

but then we have yemi, and maybe eko actually was supposed to be there, and now i've confused even myself. i still think it's a wondeful theory though.

WOW. Excellent theory...it all makes sense.

It's important to remember the supposed "Oceanic Representative" who came to see Hurley and wanted to take him somewhere "peaceful" (obviously the island) is the same guy that organized the Rescue team.
Obviously whatever organization he's behind wants certain people to be on the island, and Hurley, being special, is probably an essential one. That's why he wants Hurley back, that's why he wants those people who were supposed to be on 815 to go to the island.

This is true. Maybe smokey even pushed the plane off the cliff when Boone was up there. The only thing I forsee that may not add up is that I do not think Smokey can fly very high (Dr. Suds would suggest that this is due to electromagnetic coils under the ground that allow him to levitate). I do not know why he cannot fly high but I know he cannot jump over the sound fence. He has no ups....Maybe he should morph into Michael Jordon.

You guys are right about that, I had forgotten the sonic fence fiasco. I guess the only thing that can salvage my theory is that maybe Smokey was a lot stronger and had less limitations to what it could do at that crucial moment, due to the crazy electromagnetic phenomenon that occurred when Desmond failed to press the button the first time.

But why the fake plane at all? If they were supposed to be there, just get them there, why plant a fake plane in a trench?
I was kinda thinking, that there is another reason to get them to the island....
OK, Charlotte found Dharma stuff in the dessert, she seemed like she knew exactly what that hydra symbol meant, she was looking for it. The pilot, knew that wasn't the right plane in the ocean. Miles, communicates with dead people. Daniel knows about forcefields and junk.
Maybe they knew too much? Maybe they were put there on the Island cuz it's so hard to get off and Abbadon didnt want them blowin up his cover about this mystery island?? And that's why the friegher people they tried to contact could care less they made it to the island safely. they want to leave them there, not enough fuel to get back.
But then how do they know about Ben??? and how do the Losties get off? ahhh!!!
the more i think about this show the more it drives me crazy and the more i just want to make sense of everything!!!!
anyone else think they ended up there to be kept out of sight?