Ben's closet was amazing . . . suits, cash from all over the world, and numerous passports (New Zealand, Switzerland, and others). Great game changer indeed.

I bet Sayid brought it to the attention of Ben that he knew about all of that and that is why he is the one working for him now.

I bet Sayid brought it to the attention of Ben that he knew about all of that and that is why he is the one working for him now.

I would also think that Sayid would be a pretty good employee for the type of work Ben is trying to accomplish off of the island.

I found the closet so tidy . . . it was like a Banana Republic back there!

I bet Sayid brought it to the attention of Ben that he knew about all of that and that is why he is the one working for him now.

Good point. It's interesting to see evidence that Ben traveled to and from the island more often than we think. The question is, what kind of business is he doing that's so secretive?

Very interesting reveal. I like that Ben is actually becoming "him." Twist and turns all over the place....

The passports and money reminded me of Jason Bourne (Bourne Identity).

So... does Ben come and go from the island? Or in the future, is he totally off of the island?

I think Ben, in the future, comes and goes via his wardrobe. Thankfully it's stocked with nicer threads than moth-eaten fur coats.

I think Ben, in the future, comes and goes via his wardrobe. Thankfully it's stocked with nicer threads than moth-eaten fur coats.

Ooh, like C.S. Lewis's The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe?!?!?

Ben has many faces.

Ooh, like C.S. Lewis's The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe?!?!?
Good connection!
A magic wardrobe, a magic box, and he's off to another world!

I thought the extra wardrobe was very amusing, although I do love the CS Lewis reference! I'm wondering if Ben still does come and go, now that the sub is gone and all that. Was he doing his own recruiting trips?

CS Lewish (the Charlotte reference....)
Maybe he does come and go from the wardrobe. lol. Who knows.

Ben is one crazy guy. I can't wrap my mind around him.

Did anyone get a screenshot of that passport that Sayid was looking at in Ben's fancy closet? It looked like the name was Dean Moriarty, but I couldn't be sure. Any ideas?

I was trying to see it, but I couldn't. I kinda have bad reception. I hope someone gets a screencap of it though.

Need screencap. Couldn't read it. If it is Moriarty.... he is the nemesis of Sherlock Holmes, of course. Archvillian. lol.

Ben's Swiss passport name is Dean Moriarty.

So...is it possible that Benjamin Linus isn't his real name, either?

No screencap here, but it definitely appeared to be a Swiss passport for Dean Moriarty.

Well, that was his name as a child, so I'm guessing that's his real name.

Jack Kerouac's reference interesting. Dean Moriarty is Jack Kerouac's real-life crazy friend Neal Cassady.

I bet Sayid brought it to the attention of Ben that he knew about all of that and that is why he is the one working for him now.

But when they got Sayid, it's not like he has a chance to push the bookcase back. Locke and company would have seen the hole and gone in to investigate. So, Sayid wouldn't have been the only one privy to this information.

Dean Moriarty is one of the main characters in Jack Kerouac's On The Road, a novel about friends on various road trips. Here's his wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Moriarty

Interesting Kerouac connection...

Dean Moriarty is Kerouac's name for a character very much based on the real life Neal Cassady in On the Road. Cassady was also an inspiration for the Greatful Dead song "The Other One."

Secret identities, traveling, Others...much to ponder in Slumberland tonight...

Everything is a choice. Why would the writers choose a Swiss passport for Sayid to open and discover Ben's mug? Something to do with neutrality and diplomacy? A clue into the future where they work together in Europe?

Didn't catch that but it's awesome if it is. Jack Kerouac is one of my favorite authors.

i think of dean moriarty

I wonder if he actually has ever used any of those passports. He seems to be the paranoid type so I don't think it's necessary that he would only have them if he used them.

There were a *lot* of different passports, I wonder how many languages he speaks.

I love the significance of names on this show. Faraday is my latest favorite, electromagnetism. Ha.

Alright, finally Kerouac and the Dead get props. And Cassady drove the Furthur bus on the '72 tour and was a key player in the Acid Tests (which were also odd social/psychological experiments, much like DHARMA).
I posted this in another thread, but perhaps it belongs here.
Why did the writers choose to have Sayid open the Swiss passport? In writing (especially in writing a show like LOST) every little detail is important. So why the Swiss passport and why Dean Moriarty?

Interesting. I may have to check that one out from the library,...

Thanks!

Good point. It's interesting to see evidence that Ben traveled to and from the island more often than we think.

There's only evidence that they exist, not that they were used. Though I agree it's likely.

Just another fun little numbers connection that popped up in this episode. Haven't really had any significant numbers show up for awhile so I thought this worth pointing out, for those who may not have caught it.

http://lost.cubit.net/s4inv/4x03_bensPassport.jpg

The passport lists Ben's birthday as being in 1962, and since it is presumably 2004 on the island, that would make him 42 years old. This is assuming that that particular piece of information on his passport is accurate.

Well, it also says his name is "Dean Moriarty."

Kerouac, anyone? :biggrin:

I still am confused by the rags he had "The Others" wearing. :shrug: The suits are mind boggling.

Ben's passport says Dean Moriarty as the name. Isn't that Sherlock Holmes's evil nemisis, Professor Moriarty?

Dean Moriarty was a character in Jack Kerouac's book "On the Road." Look it up on Wikipedia.

yeah, I thought Ben was born on Christmas. . but the year could still be right.
then again, maybe Ben makes himself younger on his fake ids, you know, to help him get in good with the ladies.

Oooh, fun. Thanks for that link. Moriarty was also Sherlock Holmes' uber nemisis.

CS Lewish (the Charlotte reference....)
Maybe he does come and go from the wardrobe. lol. Who knows.

Ben is one crazy guy. I can't wrap my mind around him.

Me either, LLaura! That was another jaw dropper! Cool clothes though and so many passports!

Dean Moriarty is one of the main characters in Jack Kerouac's On The Road, a novel about friends on various road trips. Here's his wikipedia entry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Moriarty


KUDOS, was researching relavence as well...

in "On The Road, Dean Moriarty represents the eternal flame of youth that was adopted by the rebellious youth culture of the Beat Generation. He is free from responsibility, �simply a youth tremendously excited with life�want[ing] so much to live and to get involved with people who would otherwise pay no attention to him� (Kerouac 4).

http://www.litkicks.com/DeanMoriarty

i thought "this was our Ben" hmm.

Interesting that Ben would feel an affinity to that character (I'm assuming, since he chose that alias).

Interestingly enough, Jack Kerouac's follow up book to "On The Road" is "The Dharma Bums."

I know the Dean makes it specific, but I prefer to think Moriarty relates more to Sherlock's nemesis.

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?

Very interesting reveal. I like that Ben is actually becoming "him." Twist and turns all over the place....

The passports and money reminded me of Jason Bourne (Bourne Identity).



I was thinking the exact same thing when I saw it.

There's only evidence that they exist, not that they were used. Though I agree it's likely.

If anyone can look closely enough to see if the passports have been stamped at all then we could find out pretty soon.

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?

maybe because a spinal surgeon landed on the island faster than he could book a trip using orbitz?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=108009&fullsize=1

Dean Moriarty is an anagram for "ordinary mate".
just throwing it out there. Any thoughts? any other anagrams? Do the anagrams matter anymore? haha.

Excellent q regarding why he couldn't leave the island for his surgery.

Maybe he felt he couldn't leave the island with the issue of the 815rs still unresolved? That it would endanger the island somehow??

Also, Ben's medical emergency seems to have occurred at a point at which the Others were on the verge of mutiny/civil war, his connection to Jacob was in question--may have been a time he didn't feel he could afford to leave.

Do the other Others who are allowed to travel off-island, like Alpert and Ethan have similar closets and wardrobes? Or do they all use Ben's? Are all of those passports Ben's or is there one there (or several there) for each of our traveling Others?

http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=108009&fullsize=1

That passport doesn't look used at all.



Do the other Others who are allowed to travel off-island, like Alpert and Ethan have similar closets and wardrobes? Or do they all use Ben's? Are all of those passports Ben's or is there one there (or several there) for each of our traveling Others?

I think that we're supposed to believe that that room was just Ben's... so Alpert and whomever else would have their own.

...Based on the actual person Neal Cassady... good friend of Kerouac; driver of the bus Furthur; acquaintance of all the Beat writers; author; taker of LSD and amphetamines; dyer on railroad tracks, etc. A real "romantic" character, in other words.

Awww, he's a romantic at heart. Too bad about the mass murder thing. I think it fits with what we saw of his childhood. He's your quintessential "looking at the human race from the outside" brilliant-but-twisted, wasn't loved enough as a kid type of character.

I'm so happy Ben hasn't lived his whole life on the Island. It's going to make for some kickbutt flashbacks.

Sayid didn't have a chance to hide the secret closet again, so we must assume that Locke has been in there too. What could he do with this information?

http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Dean+Moriarty&t=1000

More anagrams

I mentioned this in another thread but I should probably put it in here too:

The £20 note in the drawer was the old version (stopped being printed in 2001), bearing a picture of Michael Faraday.

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?

Considering that Sayid had to seek medical attention in a Vet's office, I'm not sure where Ben would find the facilities to seek a major spinal operation, considering he's undercover using many aliases.

re: Cassidy . . . wasn't that one of Sawyer's cons?

...Based on the actual person Neal Cassady... good friend of Kerouac; driver of the bus Furthur; acquaintance of all the Beat writers; author; taker of LSD and amphetamines; dyer on railroad tracks, etc. A real "romantic" character, in other words.

Remember too that Richard Alpert (now Ram Dass) is the name of the one who synthesized LSD and began the experimentation with Timothy Leary.

Awww, he's a romantic at heart. Too bad about the mass murder thing. :D You are too funny! :D

It seems he or they used the closet a lot...the hardwood floor was scratched pretty bad form oppening and closing the bookcase.:confused:

I mentioned this in another thread but I should probably put it in here too:

The £20 note in the drawer was the old version (stopped being printed in 2001), bearing a picture of Michael Faraday.

Then it might be interesting as another wink towards Faraday, and not a hint as to how long the money has been lying there. There was a huge stack of Euro on top of the notes, and the Euro was only introduced as a currency in 2002.

This wasn't a shock to me. We've seen that Ben and The Others travel off the island to recruit people or do other work. I've just assumed that this was a normal thing for them in order to keep the island hidden, recruit new people, etc.

As far as not leaving the island to have the surgery, I think that Ben felt Jack was supposed to do it, since Jack was "delivered" to him right after he found out about the tumor. Also, he was using the situation to manipulate Jack, Kate, and Sawyer.

That passport doesn't look used at all.



I think that we're supposed to believe that that room was just Ben's... so Alpert and whomever else would have their own.

or not know about Ben's closet at all. He's not exactly forthcoming with information to everyone.

I think it's good that they revealed the time difference of 31 minutes on the island and Ben's closet in the same episode because I was thinking, "How does Ben have all this money?" and then I realized with the island being 31 minutes ahead of the real world, playing the stock market game would be a hell of a lot easier when you know the outcomes.

Then it might be interesting as another wink towards Faraday, and not a hint as to how long the money has been lying there. There was a huge stack of Euro on top of the notes, and the Euro was only introduced as a currency in 2002.

I just don't really understand: the English money was 4+ years out of date, yet still on the top of the drawer. This kind of implies he hasn't travelled many places within that time, or that the majority of work he was doing was in one place (such as mainland europe).

But I might be reading too much into it; perhaps the writers used the old £20 note deliberately simply because of the Faraday reference, and hoped no one would spot that it was out of date currency.


edit: I just realised I basically repeated what you said there, hah.

Money is in circulation long after they stop printing that version. I have a $5 bill from 1999 in my wallet.

Nice catch!

I was wondering 2 things about this closet when I saw it....

1) Is he keeping it secret from everyone or just some people?

2) Who in DHARMA owned this house before Ben moved into it?

If the room was built after the purge, it was still made in a way so as to keep it secret from some people but it would have been hard for Ben to build it without people knowing what he was doing so I think it was built as part of the original house; so who was using it before??

I was wondering 2 things about this closet when I saw it....

1) Is he keeping it secret from everyone or just some people?

2) Who in DHARMA owned this house before Ben moved into it?

If the room was built after the purge, it was still made in a way so as to keep it secret from some people but it would have been hard for Ben to build it without people knowing what he was doing so I think it was built as part of the original house; so who was using it before??

These are both excellent questions . . . .

I can't even venture a guess as to who may have owned the house with the hidden room prior to Ben. Is this still Ben's childhood home?

Is he bringing home all of the shirts, suits, and contemporary clothing from his travels? He's finding time to shop as well. I love that Ben's a bit OCD as well. Neat as a pin.

Just a little something fun that we picked up on in our viewing. The 'note' (cash) in Ben's drawer was old and it hasn;t been printed that way for some time. My buddy collects currency and noticed, so we freeze framed it in the DVR. There is no name on the note but he did a lookup to find a match and the man represented on it is.....

Michael Faraday

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jbourj/images/money/addition/faraday12.jpg (http://www-personal.umich.edu/%7Ejbourj/images/money/addition/faraday12.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

:) :) :) :)

EDIT: Sorry, just saw this brought up in the "Ben's Closet" thread. My Bad

I think it's good that they revealed the time difference of 31 minutes on the island and Ben's closet in the same episode because I was thinking, "How does Ben have all this money?" and then I realized with the island being 31 minutes ahead of the real world, playing the stock market game would be a hell of a lot easier when you know the outcomes.

I'm confused. I thought the island was 31 minutes BEHIND the real world?

Very nice catch M.A.!

Did you catch the name on the passport too? If so please share and investigat that as well!

Ben's ability to travel may have been restricted after Desmond pushed the button in the hatch.

We did see Ben once in someone's vision (Jin's?) in the Sydney airport.

I think the island is 31 minutes behind the real world.

Ben's ability to travel may have been restricted after Desmond pushed the button in the hatch.

We did see Ben once in someone's vision (Jin's?) in the Sydney airport.

That was in Locke's "vision" when he was in Eko's church...

Let's not forget that the passport was created April 1, 2002 and expires 2012.

Is this a phony passport devised on the island or did Ben really leave the island for Switzerland with a fake id?

In all probability, Ben has had passports for years and this could be a renewed version.

Interesting alias.

I would also think that Sayid would be a pretty good employee for the type of work Ben is trying to accomplish off of the island.

I found the closet so tidy . . . it was like a Banana Republic back there!

Double "aww": Dharma Drops from Banana Republic and Ben wearing suits. Suits! Vests!

*dies*

Ha! How like Ben and his ego to pick Moriarty for an alias. Which begs the question, of course - who is his Sherlock?

Spoiler comic book reference: In the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (by Alan Moore, who also wrote Watchmen), it is reveled that the "M" the good guys have been working for all along is not Sherlock's brother Mycroft, as earlier believed, but instead Sherlock's nemesis, the criminal mastermind, Moriarty. And he has been using the team to further his own nefarious purposes. If Ben = Moriarty, then what purpose has Ben been using our team for? Further - the members of the League were all carefully chosen and recruited by M. Another clue the passengers on 815 were not as random as we've been led to believe? Or a hint that the O6 will all be chosen to serve a future purpose, as Sayid will be?

Oooh, fun. Thanks for that link. Moriarty was also Sherlock Holmes' uber nemisis.

Yes, yes, yes! (I love Conan Doyle) :)

Professor Moriary's first name was James, though. BUT, in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, by Alan Moore, there is a character called Dean Moriarty. He is the grandson or great-grandson (sorry, I can't remember which) of the Professor Moriarty of Conan Doyle's books. It's a great little reference and, as with so many other character names in Lost, gives us another little insight into the character.

quizzical (I was replying to eyris as you were posting)- James Moriarty is the 'M' of Moore's books. Dean Moriarty is the grandson. I think we're being told that Ben is a descendant of the original arch enemy in Lost, whoever that will be.

yeah, I thought Ben was born on Christmas. . but the year could still be right.
then again, maybe Ben makes himself younger on his fake ids, you know, to help him get in good with the ladies.

On the Lostpedia, it says he was born on December 21st. ;)

It makes me wonder if the passport guy was originally supposed to be Richard Alpert but the writers had to change it to Ben since they lost the actor who plays Richard to that other show...seems we've been led to believe that Alpert has been going back & forth but not Ben now suddenly it's Ben going himself. Either way is interesting. I really did like the Richard character though & hope they don't have to do away with him completely. Maybe I'm offbase but it felt like there may have been a little creative juggling going on. Richard's Group treking to the temple is but a faint memory so far it seems. I wish all concerned would let that actor return to finish his characters story.

I'm confused. I thought the island was 31 minutes BEHIND the real world?
Actually, it's 31 seconds behind the real world...

Actually, it's 31 seconds behind the real world...

No, it's MINUTES, right?

There was a spoiler before the ep. aired that had the 31 seconds thing in there ... but when the final cut aired last night it had been changed to 31 minutes. DocArtz had something about that discrepancy on his website I read earlier.

Ben had to have Jack do the surgery. Remember that until his flashback, we along with the Others on the show, were under the impression that Ben was born on the island and had spent his entire life on the island. We don't even know that Richard and Ethan know he leaves the island for sure.

So, leaving the island for the surgery presents two problems. 1) Juliette knows about his tumor and 2) he would have to recover. Spinal surgery isn't exactly an in and out procedure, as we saw. It took Ben a week to recover even with the island's healing properties. Imagine how long he would have been away if he had the surgery off island.

Interestingly enough, Jack Kerouac's follow up book to "On The Road" is "The Dharma Bums."


good point. and i wouldn't be surprised if Ben's other aliases were the various names that Neal Cassady (Dean Moriarty in On The Road) went under in Kerouac's books....I believe he was Japhy Ryder in the Dharma Bums...

don't think Kerouac has too much to do with LOST but good reads nonetheless.

31 minutes and 20 seconds

I think it's good that they revealed the time difference of 31 minutes on the island and Ben's closet in the same episode because I was thinking, "How does Ben have all this money?" and then I realized with the island being 31 minutes ahead of the real world, playing the stock market game would be a hell of a lot easier when you know the outcomes.


Except the island is 31 minutes behind the real world.
100%
Ben had to have Jack do the surgery. Remember that until his flashback, we along with the Others on the show, were under the impression that Ben was born on the island and had spent his entire life on the island. We don't even know that Richard and Ethan know he leaves the island for sure.


Did Ben find out about the tumor the same day that Jack crashed on the island? He
could have left the island (perhaps) but instead a famous surgeon came to him.


What I want to know is why Ben had to hide his suits. There's no real reason they couldn't
be hanging in his closet. I can't imagine that's the room's primary use. Also, didn't there
seem to be other equipment in there?

Yeah, Dean Moriarty is the real hero of On The Road. It's an alias for Neil Cassady, whom both Jack Kerouac and Allen Ginsberg were desperately in love with. He was sort of the idealized man of that era for the beat generation; heroic, adventurous, beautiful, experimental, and so forth.In any case, On The Road is about being young, on a lot of drugs, and highly confused about life.

Richard Alpert is as gay as they come, too. I have a hard time thinking there's not some symbolic significance to using names that have such heavy connotations with the origins of this type of culture, these guys who adopted free-thinking progressive attitudes and combined them with Tibetan Buddhism to create a sort of distinctly American code of behavior. I just can't figure out what this all has to do with The Others, considering names like Alpert and Dean Moriarty seem to have more to do with Dharma initiative people, thematically, than anything else.

When Sayid is poking around in Ben's cabin, and comes across a drawer full of different currency, and another drawer full of passports of different countries, the passport on the top of the list is a New Zealand one.
It is actually a 'new' microchipped passport (that the U.S. government insisted the rest of the world used if they wanted to travel there) that was issued from the 26th Oct 2006 (the new ones are maroon in colour, the old ones are navy blue). So either there has been some mistake there, or this whole 'Time Travel' factor is in play again. Obviously if time has moved faster on the outside world, Ben would need an updated passport to travel.

What you think you lot?

Was Sayid led to find this closet by Locke and Hurley? The only reason Sayid and Kate went to Ben's house was because Hurley said that's where Locke stopped to get something before they left Hurley there. If it wasn't for the "trick" Sayid would never have found the closet, so was this the real reason for using Hurley as a Possum?:shrug:

ETA: I'm pretty sure the other show that the actor who plays Alpert starred in has been cancelled because of the strike. I remember hearing that on one of the Entertainment News programs.

When Sayid is poking around in Ben's cabin, and comes across a drawer full of different currency, and another drawer full of passports of different countries, the passport on the top of the list is a New Zealand one.
It is actually a 'new' microchipped passport (that the U.S. government insisted the rest of the world used if they wanted to travel there) that was issued from the 26th Oct 2006 (the new ones are maroon in colour, the old ones are navy blue). So either there has been some mistake there, or this whole 'Time Travel' factor is in play again. Obviously if time has moved faster on the outside world, Ben would need an updated passport to travel.

What you think you lot?

I think that Ben should stay away from New Zealand, we don.t want his sort here :P

...unless he's a useful opening batsman or decent with the new ball. :grin:

Good catch, benitals.

I think that Ben should stay away from New Zealand, we don.t want his sort here :P

Word my homie! :biggrin:

LOL! There are some serious problems with the passports, then.
The Brazilian one is all wrong too. Some words are written in English and others in Portuguese, and the insignia is not correct either.
It's written "Republica Federativa do Brazil" and "Passport", while it should be "República Federativa do Brasil" (with an S and an accent) and "Passaporte" in Portuguese.

" I'm pretty sure the other show that the actor who plays Alpert starred in has been cancelled because of the strike. I remember hearing that on one of the Entertainment News programs. "


I hadn't heard this before....... that would be great news...... if it were true then he could return in the yet to be filmed episodes. I'd like to see Richard return to the mix.

Awesome! Great catch!

I think the one name that was seen was Dean Moriarty. Whole bunch of threads with info on that.

Wow, the resemblance is unncanny...but you saw this in the episode? I need to take a closer look. I did a search and didn't fnd anything about Faraday ever being on an English bill, but admittedly I didn't look very hard. :) Still lookin'...

Yeah, it turns out M.F. really was on a 20:

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/about/withdrawn_notes.htm

withdrawn from circulation in 1981

It's kind of shocking just how much time and effort is put into every tiny detail on this show.

withdrawn from circulation in 1981

Withdrawn 2001.

But Euros, also there, weren't issued until 2002. The 1000 Yen note seen wasn't issued until 2003.

So why keep obsolete British notes? Prop's gaff? (ABC only have drawers of fake 2001 £20s).

But you have Faraday.

On the Yen note, we see Hideyo Noguchi, the bacteriologist who discovered the cause of Syphillis, and ended up dying of Yellow Fever, while attempting to develop a vaccine for it. For most of his life, he had a crippled left hand. There is also a wad of 50 Euro notes, which uses a Renaissance architectural theme.

Wow, MatthewAbbadon, you've done a very excellent job of proving your mettle as a newbie to the Lage by catching that! Here's a screencap of the drawer (http://bp3.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R7VUBG3EfKI/AAAAAAAATvo/FdbfNot1bAU/s1600-h/lost.s04e03.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv_001517849.jpg), showing quite clearly the banknote in question.

So why keep obsolete British notes? Prop's gaff? (ABC only have drawers of fake 2001 £20s).Just a guess, but if Ben's able to leave the island and go to various times, he'd want to bring the correct currency for the day..

you say that the british notes are obselete but there are loads in circulation still over here. I have 4 in my wallet right now!

you say that the british notes are obselete but there are loads in circulation still over here. I have 4 in my wallet right now!


and here was me feeling all smug and rich because i have two,,a week before payday!!!!

they aren't obsolete,,,just not printed anymore,,there are still plenty in circulation

Forget the Dean Moriarty from On The Road (although it's a fantastic novel). The name is a reference to Alan Moore's The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.

In The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen there is a character called Dean Moriarty. He is the grandson or great-grandson (sorry, I can't remember which) of the Professor Moriarty ('James Moriarty') of Arthur Conan Doyle's books. It's a great little reference and, as with so many other character names in Lost, gives us another little insight into the character.

I think we're being told that Ben is a descendant of the original arch enemy in Lost, whoever that will be.

I'm surprised; 7 years after being withdrawn from circulation, there are still some about. All bank notes eventually get deposited at a bank. The banks will then have these exchanged for the new notes and the old notes are incinerated. Since 2001, you will not have gotten these notes from any ATM. The Faraday note is no longer legal tender, nor was it in 2004.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/news/2001/010.htm

Faraday notes haven't actually been printed since 1999. Withdrawn because they can be easily faked. And, of course, the Elgar £20 hasn't been printed since 2007, now the new Adam Smith notes are in circulation.

I'm surprised; 7 years after being withdrawn from circulation, there are still some about. All bank notes eventually get deposited at a bank. The banks will then have these exchanged for the new notes and the old notes are incinerated. Since 2001, you will not have gotten these notes from any ATM. The Faraday note is no longer legal tender, nor was it in 2004.

http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/news/2001/010.htm

Faraday notes haven't actually been printed since 1999. Withdrawn because they can be easily faked. And, of course, the Elgar £20 hasn't been printed since 2007, now the new Adam Smith notes are in circulation.
After 28 February 2001, bank branches will continue to accept these notes and they will, of course, remain payable at the Bank of England for all time

As saz9961 and Whos Ethan? have said, £20 notes aren't obsolete. They just revise the notes every few years - often in order to bring new ink-printing methods into play (to help counter forgeries). However, they also revise the notes as a simple way of using new English historical figures.

The Faraday note is no longer legal tender in shops, but they can still be exchanged for new, legal, notes in a bank.

As saz9961 and Whos Ethan? have said, £20 notes aren't obsolete. They just revise the notes every few years - often in order to bring new ink-printing methods into play (to help counter forgeries). However, they also revise the notes as a simple way of using new English historical figures.

The Faraday note is no longer legal tender in shops, but they can still be exchanged for new, legal, notes in a bank.
‘Legal tender’ is a term whose exact use is confined to legal circles.The vast majority of people accept notes and coin in financial transactions purely because it is a convenient and accepted way of doing business.

Absolutely. I'm a lawyer and I could have gone into the intricacies of the term, but it's relatively pointless for the purposes of the thread. For most people though the term 'legal tender', in everyday use, means notes and coins that can be used in exchange for goods and services. It is of course a fallacy, but like many terms, it has entered the everyday lexicon.

There does come a cut-off point for the redemption of those old notes at banks. For example, the old £1 note (withdrawn years ago and replaced by the £1 coin) is no longer redeemable at a bank.

Absolutely. I'm a lawyer and I could have gone into the intricacies of the term, but it's relatively pointless for the purposes of the thread. For most people though the term 'legal tender', in everyday use, means notes and coins that can be used in exchange for goods and services. It is of course a fallacy, but like many terms, it has entered the everyday lexicon.

There does come a cut-off point for the redemption of those old notes at banks. For example, the old £1 note (withdrawn years ago and replaced by the £1 coin) is no longer redeemable at a bank.
we still have the pound note in scotland,,and i have used bank of england pound notes recently.All notes issued since 1964 are redeemable at banks

Yep. If you have a Bank of England £1 note then you can still use it in Scotland. For others reading this, it's important to note that the Bank of Scotland prints Scottish currency notes, with the BofE printing notes for England and Wales, although they can each be used on either side of the border.

All shops and most banks in England and Walers will usually refuse to accept those BofE £1 notes now. You have to go to the Bank of England in order to exchange them for curent currency. The legal "legal tender" status of old notes is removed after a certain period of time (that period is not fixed and can change from note to note).

So, could this whole thing just be one giant acid trip? :biggrin:

Re the name Moriarty in the context of Sherlock Holmes, it's also worth remembering that Moriarty died at the Reichenbach Falls, which is in Switzerland .............

Because, if you are going to travel back in time to different locations, you better have the compatible currency (Nowhere Man had that same premise).

You know, that could lend itself to the time-differential between the freighter and the Island. It could explain why a lot of these coincidences really aren't coincidences. If you know how things are supposed to happen, then you could conceivably go back in time to set things up to happen the way you want them to. Ben is a master manipulator and knows the psychology of getting people to do things in a way that makes it seem like they've made the decision.

The Con is a big thread throughout this entire show.

Perhaps this is the science of time and th ordering of chaos.




Withdrawn 2001.

But Euros, also there, weren't issued until 2002. The 1000 Yen note seen wasn't issued until 2003.

So why keep obsolete British notes? Prop's gaff? (ABC only have drawers of fake 2001 £20s).

But you have Faraday.

On the Yen note, we see Hideyo Noguchi, the bacteriologist who discovered the cause of Syphillis, and ended up dying of Yellow Fever, while attempting to develop a vaccine for it. For most of his life, he had a crippled left hand. There is also a wad of 50 Euro notes, which uses a Renaissance architectural theme.

As saz9961 and Whos Ethan? have said, £20 notes aren't obsolete. They just revise the notes every few years - often in order to bring new ink-printing methods into play (to help counter forgeries). However, they also revise the notes as a simple way of using new English historical figures.

The Faraday note is no longer legal tender in shops, but they can still be exchanged for new, legal, notes in a bank.

Exactly. The other point people have missed, leading on from this, is that after 2001, you will not have been able to go into a bank, or currency exchange and drawn out a thick pile of old 20's as shown.

So, its either a props gaff; the dates on the notes mean nothing. Or the Sterling has been sitting in a drawer since at least 2001; no one from the Island has traveled to the UK since 2001. Similarly, they've been to mainland Europe/Eurozone since 2002, and Japan since 2003. I haven't figured out the other bundle of notes visible; they don't appear European.

If you've got £80 in Faraday 20s in 2008, they've come from someone's mattress. Although in theory, old notes can remain in circulation a long time; by some freak, they don't end up at a bank, in practice, new designs can replace old very quickly. If you refer the BofE press release of 2001 that I linked; 2 years after a new note was introduced, 83% of the notes in circulation will be the new design.



Of course, there could be sheer coincidence in the notes visible, and themes associated with the show.

Daniel Faraday shares a surname and a certain level of scientific intuition and Michael Faraday, who's likeness once appeared on a British banknote.

Marvin Candle, the 1 armed (right handed only) scientist who may have been dabbling in virology and vaccine development and Hideyo Noguchi, the Japanese scientist (also who had lost the use, effectively, of his left arm), who died of the very disease he was trying to develop a vaccine for.

Now Hideyo Noguchi was quite a dark character; he discovered the cause of Syphillus; allegedly this involved injecting children with the causative bacterium. Again, there could be drawn parallels between this and events on the Island.

And the 50 Euro note, with a Renaissance theme. The Renaissance of course was marked by the struggles between "Men of Faith" and "Men of Reason"., themes of which can be found on the Island.

Of course, it might well be wild coincidence.

It's kind of shocking just how much time and effort is put into every tiny detail on this show.

TPTB know this so they deliberately put "easter eggs" out there, in plain view like this one, where a nice screen shot can be taken and us Lost fanatics can dissect it to our heart's content. Sometimes they have meaning, sometimes they don't. Those who think otherwise can make the choice to just skip the thread. :)



The Con is a big thread throughout this entire show.



Yes, and Ben is running the biggest one.

Of course, there could be sheer coincidence in the notes visible, and themes associated with the show.

Daniel Faraday shares a surname and a certain level of scientific intuition and Michael Faraday, who's likeness once appeared on a British banknote.

Marvin Candle, the 1 armed (right handed only) scientist who may have been dabbling in virology and vaccine development and Hideyo Noguchi, the Japanese scientist (also who had lost the use, effectively, of his left arm), who died of the very disease he was trying to develop a vaccine for.

Now Hideyo Noguchi was quite a dark character; he discovered the cause of Syphillus; allegedly this involved injecting children with the causative bacterium. Again, there could be drawn parallels between this and events on the Island.

And the 50 Euro note, with a Renaissance theme. The Renaissance of course was marked by the struggles between "Men of Faith" and "Men of Reason"., themes of which can be found on the Island.

Of course, it might well be wild coincidence.

I think you've probably 'got' the connection there saz! The actual currency - and it's age - is actually a secondary issue, its the pictures they portray that have the most relevance! If we could work out what the other currency is we might be able to see a 'lost' link there too! :undecide:

Excellent stuff, saz

Aloha All...yeah i lol when i saw that.....Dean Moriarity the character was
based on real life beat/merry prankster Neal Cassidy.
no link here but Ben must have had On the Road discussions
at bookclub meeting....lol.Dean Moriarity nothing like BL.

The other bundle of cash you see most clearly are 100 Honduran Lempiras. The face you see is José Cecilio del Valle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:100Lempira.jpg

Known as the first President of the Central America, also nicknamed "El Sabio"; the wise. Judge and an amateur scientist (geology and botany). He was an early anti-slavery proponent, including abolition in the CA's Constitution.

Having a pile of Honduran cash in the drawer seems odd; why would they want to travel to Honduras?

I think we're being told that Ben is a descendant of the original arch enemy in Lost, whoever that will be.I knew Roger Workman was behind it all!

Re the name Moriarty in the context of Sherlock Holmes, it's also worth remembering that Moriarty died at the Reichenbach Falls, which is in Switzerland .............
And then Holmes came back in The Adventure of the Norwood Builder, which involved someone who'd built himself into a wall of a dwelling -- which could be what accounted for the "ghost" in the wall in Missouri that Miles "found".

Robert

Intersting how the "Master of Disguise" would choose masks for his bedroom wall art...

I knew Roger Workman was behind it all!

LOL :)

M

Ben had to have Jack do the surgery. Remember that until his flashback, we along with the Others on the show, were under the impression that Ben was born on the island and had spent his entire life on the island. We don't even know that Richard and Ethan know he leaves the island for sure.

So, leaving the island for the surgery presents two problems. 1) Juliette knows about his tumor and 2) he would have to recover. Spinal surgery isn't exactly an in and out procedure, as we saw. It took Ben a week to recover even with the island's healing properties. Imagine how long he would have been away if he had the surgery off island.

Excellent reasoning. I'm also thinking that if it was known among his group that he travelled, he wouldn't have had to hide everything in the first place. And what's up with all those clothes? Why the heck would you need so many in addition to your regular wardrobe?

Also, I'm assuming he did actually travel because the photo from last week looked like it was taken at an airport.

I wish we had more caps of Ben's closet. If he is jumping back and forth through time, he might have to have the appropriate wardrobe.

I wish we had more caps of Ben's closet. If he is jumping back and forth through time, he might have to have the appropriate wardrobe.

I was thinking the same thing. Anybody spot an orange plaid leisure suit among the hangers? :biggrin: Different wardrobes might be required of different locations, as well.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R7UP_uSXrJI/AAAAAAAAAUI/HjS65VWtKOE/s1600-h/hidden.room3.png

http://bp1.blogger.com/_8HhjIy50yEY/R7UP7-SXrII/AAAAAAAAAUA/a25IrVvJnho/s1600-h/hidden.room2.png

Dark has a couple of requested shots. You can't tell about the clothes but....why so many different suitcases? Unless, you need the appropriate one

Darn, no leisure suits. No paisley or plaid. It looks like a lot of business clothes, which you wouldn't really have any excuse to own (let alone in that quantity) living in a compound on a secluded island. Maybe that's all it is, just a hidden life. Which leads to the question of why he's deceiving his friends? And the first thing I think of is how he didn't hear Jacob talk to Locke, so he's apparently been deceiving them for a while.

The suitcases are just weird. Maybe he just really likes luggage?

" I'm pretty sure the other show that the actor who plays Alpert starred in has been cancelled because of the strike. I remember hearing that on one of the Entertainment News programs. "


I hadn't heard this before....... that would be great news...... if it were true then he could return in the yet to be filmed episodes. I'd like to see Richard return to the mix.

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=88721

Cane is not making new episodes this season. It will probably be officially canceled in May (although there is a slim chance it could be renewed).

No matter what disguise Ben puts on, it's pretty hard to hide his "Blue Bug Eyes." No mean spirit intended. But come on, he does have some distinct features.

In fact, it's reasonable that most people cannot hide themselves unless they put a mask on to cover all of their face.

But then there is the voice. Ben has a distinct voice and when Sayid went into the doggy hospital and the doctor spoke, I knew it was Ben.

Also because I was spoiled to that point of the story.

I knew it was Ben despite the way they tried to disguise the voice, mainly due to the way that he spoke, how he said things, etc.

Thank you for the CANE info.....I'd love to see the Richard Character return. It's not like there is a sortage of characters on LOST (many that I enjoy), but I found the Ricahard character very interesting & I liked the actor as well....oh well, we'll see.
I'm one that would also like to see more of Libby's Story.

Until more data is proven , I do not believe the island is 31 minutes behind. There's been a huge implosion of an electro magnet so powerful it can bring down a plane, so hwo knows what is going on with electronics.

I have another theory about the closet, I don't believe it, but what if the closet is "the magic box". I don't believe it because if you had a magic box, why would you need a submarine and a runway?

I believe there is only one bearing to get off/on the island safely. Everything else is affected by the "bubble" encircling the island. It distorts the angle of rockets, the trajectory of helicopters, and makes it impossible for 2 people to find from a post at one of the poles.

There was a fair amount of speculation that the picture Miles had of Ben appeared to be taken in an airport. The finding of the passports supports this. Ben IS traveling to and from the island, be it real time or not. The photograph Miles had was taken on one of these trips and revealed to whoever cares (Abaddon) that Ben is alive and well and is still in control of the island.

Why would Ben have a Swiss passport with an English name like Dean Moriarty? I thought that was weird.

I think KeepingAwake had a great explanation. I think once the plane crashed, Ben couldn't leave the island with all that was going on.

I guess we'll have to wait and see whether Locke found the closet or not, but I'm going to assume that right now what's on his mind is not investigating the houses to find out about Ben and the Island, but what is he supposed to do with the new people and the freighter? I kind of thought that Locke would be preoccupied with capturing Sayid and Kate and that maybe he left the closet alone.

Another troubling thing that a poster brought up was that there were some pretty big marks on the floor as though the bookcase had been moved a lot. It would be pretty easy for anyone to spot.

Why would Ben have a Swiss passport with an English name like Dean Moriarty? I thought that was weird.

Elementary, my dear Watson!
As any fan of Sherlock Holmes will tell you, Professor James Moriarty met his end (or so we are told) locked in mortal struggle with said Holmes near Reichenbach Falls in Switzerland.

I don't know if that is the connection we are meant to make, but it's the one I made. :)

So, leaving the island for the surgery presents two problems. 1) Juliette knows about his tumor and 2) he would have to recover. Spinal surgery isn't exactly an in and out procedure, as we saw. It took Ben a week to recover even with the island's healing properties. Imagine how long he would have been away if he had the surgery off island.

Sorry, it still bothers me. It's not as if Juliette thought he couldn't leave the Island, and it's not as if she didn't know others (like Alpert and Ethan) could leave. Juliette was being held by Ben until she finished her work. Then she thought she herself would be allowed to go home. There was a reason for Ben to hide is ability to come and go from the Losties, but not from his own group.

And now that we know Ben has been secretly coming and going from the Island with fake passports and plenty of money, it just doesn't quite add up that he was afraid of someone discovering his identity off-Island. Why would he choose to have a delicate operation (which could have left him paralyzed) in a dirty operating room meant for polar bears, with no cutting-edge equipment? And he clearly couldn't rely on the healing properties of the Island to help him get better at that point, since the Island had already allowed him to get the tumor in the first place. :confused:

There's something wrong about it. Keep in mind, the tumor story-line took up almost all of Season 3. It wasn't some 2-episode arc like Nikki and Paulo. It was a MAJOR deal that was supposed to help explain, at least in part, the Others' motivation for harassing the Losties in the way that they did.

I don't think we have enough information yet to know why Ben didn't leave the Island to have his surgery. There's definitely more to it than what they've shown us so far.

Theory - Dean Moriarty: "On the Road"


Ben once having been part of the vast evil rich business men organization of corporate greed (Widmore et al) is now a rougue, a traitor. Perhaps he originally had the misguided ideals of "Dean Moriarty" in On The Road & thought at one time that these men represented a way for him & his followers check out of society/government & it has now back-fired so he has to kill them all & those connected to it because what they came to be is the opposite of his original intention. Let alone the fact Ben's closet truly represented someone who was "On the Road"


It is the character of Dean Moriarty, in Jack Kerouac's On The Road, who represents the eternal flame of youth. He is free from responsibility, simply excited with life wanting so much to live and to get involved with people who would otherwise pay no attention to him. Dean embodied the spirit of the immortal Beat Generation itself .Post-World War Two, the fifties saw the arrival of "juvenile delinquents" who adopted an ethic at odds with most Americans. The character of Dean Moriarty is literally and figuratively the firebrand of the invincible youth culture, the con-man with the shining mind. The passionate madness of life and rebellious con-man life-styles evinced in the character of Dean Moriarty are symbolic of the counter-culture of his (perhaps his father's) generation.

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?

Good question my guess would be that even thou he could leave the island thru the sub, and obviously had enough money to afford such an operation, he knew there where people after him on the outside world, secondly the healing properties of the Island would make an Island surgery MUCH more preferable to a mainland one.

-Exodus

did sayid leave the secret door open thus leaving it for Locke to find?

Yes, he did leave the door open, and I wondered about that. I went back and forth over what I thought would have happened, and I really came to the conclusion that Locke is so pre-occupied with what he is doing right now that he may not have looked in the closet.

It seems like Locke doesn't really need to know any information about Ben. He doesn't seem concerned with that right now. I think he has so much on his mind that it wouldn't have been a priority for him to look in there. That's my take on it.

Yes, he did leave the door open, and I wondered about that. I went back and forth over what I thought would have happened, and I really came to the conclusion that Locke is so pre-occupied with what he is doing right now that he may not have looked in the closet.

It seems like Locke doesn't really need to know any information about Ben. He doesn't seem concerned with that right now. I think he has so much on his mind that it wouldn't have been a priority for him to look in there. That's my take on it.

I think it's a good possibility that Locke already knew about the closet and wanted Sayid to find it, or someone wanted it to be found. Why else would they use Ben's place as the ambush house? Why not just use the house that Hurley was tied up in for the ambush? They chose Ben's house for some reason.

But how did Sayid and Kate know which house was Ben's? Only Locke entered the house when they went to find Jack, Sayid was tied up to the swing set and Kate went to Jack's house and then was thrown into the rec hall.

I don't think Locke found Sayid in the closet. That is something they would have shown us.

Yes, there were scrapes on the floor but they weren't huge. They only mean something if you happen to be looking for them.

Sorry, it still bothers me. It's not as if Juliette thought he couldn't leave the Island, and it's not as if she didn't know others (like Alpert and Ethan) could leave. Juliette was being held by Ben until she finished her work. Then she thought she herself would be allowed to go home. There was a reason for Ben to hide is ability to come and go from the Losties, but not from his own group.

Well, he definately was hiding it though. We already know that, remember? He had been telling them all along that he was born on the island and that he had spent his whole life there. That's important to him maintaining his position somehow. He was holding other people on the island, like Juliette, who wanted to leave, all with the understanding that he had never left. So he couldn't just up and say, well, I guess I'll have to go ahead and leave this magical healing island now that I've got a tumor. It wouldn't jibe with his cover story that The Others had been swallowing.

So, its not a matter of making people think he COULDN'T come and go. It was a matter of his established story that he WOULDN'T come and go.

Yes, he did leave the door open, and I wondered about that. I went back and forth over what I thought would have happened, and I really came to the conclusion that Locke is so pre-occupied with what he is doing right now that he may not have looked in the closet.

It seems like Locke doesn't really need to know any information about Ben. He doesn't seem concerned with that right now. I think he has so much on his mind that it wouldn't have been a priority for him to look in there. That's my take on it.


Yes. Locke who humble at first and willing to take in everything, has gotten overconfindent and seems to feel he is the Island/Jacob's conduit. Where as Ben takes EVERYTHING in, analyzes it and then uses that information to expoit people and accomplish what he wants.

Although it does not seem this way now, but Ben is still the puppetmaster over Locke. Locke has the drive to ask Jacob what to do next like a good soldier, but Ben seems to know why he can't find him :undecide:

Money is in circulation long after they stop printing that version. I have a $5 bill from 1999 in my wallet.

Not in the UK. When they change to a new note, it's a completely different style, they withdraw the old ones and give you a cut off date to use the old ones by, after which stores won't accept them.

So it means that they were deff there from a long time ago, and he hadn't had need for them since, unless we weren't supposed to realise that they were no longer valid.

I laughed when I saw the hidden wardrobe as I always refer to Ben as Mr Benn.

Mr Benn is a character from a 70s British cartoon who would go into a fancy dress shop, a magic shopkeeper would appear and give him a costume. He would go into the dressing room and disapear out a magic door at the back into a different world/time/dimension.

After seeing Bens closet, I think that is exactly what he is doing! LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Benn

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?

I thought about this one and I came up with he heals faster on the Island. If he had this surgery elsewhere it come have taken substabtially longer to heal.

Not in the UK. When they change to a new note, it's a completely different style, they withdraw the old ones and give you a cut off date to use the old ones by, after which stores won't accept them.

So it means that they were deff there from a long time ago, and he hadn't had need for them since, unless we weren't supposed to realise that they were no longer valid.Ah....but what if he had to go back to that time? He certainly couldn't have current money that hadn't been minted yet.?????
100%
Ben was hiding the fact that Bonnie and Greta were in the looking glass. So who knows what Ben has been hiding from the Others.

S3E22 Mikhail: You told us The Looking Glass was inoperable...flooded.

S3E22 Mikhail: I thought you 2 were on assignment in Canada?

Just another thought, what was Ben going to do with Bonnie and Greta? He couldn't have them telling the OTHERS that he had been hiding the Looking Glass from them.

It not like costumes are new here we had the motley boat crew and Mr friendly's rag tag team

It not like costumes are new here we had the motley boat crew and Mr friendly's rag tag team

Actually, the hidden room suggests that Ben was going off island frequently to recruit Others. There are several things to suggest this:

The photograph the Freighties carry was taken off the island

The many different changes of wardrobe

The numerous passports and currency, one of which was for Nigeria

Actually, this contradicts what Ben said when he told Locke he never left the island.
Of course he lied about being born on the Island too, so im sure the questions about the secret room will be revealed in the next episode.

That passport doesn't look used at all.

His passport would not be stamped on the picture page when entering a country, but they
do all look pretty pristine.

It's just one of the names that has been taken onto the serie to make people come up with theories. Just like CS Lewis. TPTB are having a lark with it.

Everything is a choice. Why would the writers choose a Swiss passport for Sayid to open and discover Ben's mug? Something to do with neutrality and diplomacy? A clue into the future where they work together in Europe?

Jean-Jacques Rousseau was born in Geneva. Just because somebody speaks French... ;)

Switzerland borders Germany, France and Italy (among others) all countries mentioned in LOST and is home to some of those mountains Penny doesn't like - the Alps.

It's also famed for its secretive banks - and Ben's stripy shirts are very banker like. :biggrin:

(there's a Moriarity in the book I'm reading - but her name's Maude)

I have a hard time deciphering anything from that picture. There seems to be evidence to support any theory one brings up. However, I do think the Ben in the picture was dressed more like the Ben in Sayid's recent episode than how he looks on the Island. So I would support the thoery that he was traveling at the time.

I've always thought he's been coming and going whenever he pleases. He's the man of many disguises, the master manipulator, the "Man Behind the Curtain".

As for the clothes, I recognize them from the 70s, maybe his disco "island" fever phase.:biggrin:

When the photo was flashed in the "pop-up" version of Confirmed Dead that aired before The Economist there was a note that the photo confirmed that Ben was lying when he said that he had never been off the island.

I agree that this is pointing towards ben travelling back and forth as he pleases - why would he need passports and money?

I believe we will find out soon that Ben is much more powerful than simply leading a few "Others" on the Island. His off-Island work must be VERY important.

I've always thought he's been coming and going whenever he pleases. He's the man of many disguises, the master manipulator, the "Man Behind the Curtain".

As for the clothes, I recognize them from the 70s, maybe his disco "island" fever phase.:biggrin:

Really? I totally saw the clothes as contemporary, and rather sharp.

Actually, yeah - I just checked out DarkUFO, who had a nice screencap here: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

Ben's a total metrosexual in the 'real world'. :biggrin:

No one really addressed my question, which is:


Why would Ben need to hide his clothes from anyone? Why couldn't they just hang
in his closet with all his other clothes? It wouldn't be unusual to have them. The money
and the passports, sure, but why build a room mostly for clothes?!

No one really addressed my question, which is: Why would Ben need to hide his clothes from anyone? Why couldn't they just hang
in his closet with all his other clothes? It wouldn't be unusual to have them. The money
and the passports, sure, but why build a room mostly for clothes?!

Why would someone who lives on a tropical island and never leaves need a 15 or 20 sets of business clothes? I think that would arouse suspicion pretty quickly.

No one really addressed my question, which is:


Why would Ben need to hide his clothes from anyone? Why couldn't they just hang
in his closet with all his other clothes? It wouldn't be unusual to have them. The money
and the passports, sure, but why build a room mostly for clothes?!

If he takes on different personas with different agendas and guises on each of his trips, then perhaps they are more like costumes rather than clothes for a holiday??

Why would someone who lives on a tropical island and never leaves need a 15 or 20 sets of business clothes? I think that would arouse suspicion pretty quickly.

This is assuming that the other Others inspect Ben's normal closet regularly, right? :)

Just kidding. I agree with you that a normal island dweller would not need nearly that many nice suits and shirts, snappy dresser though he is. I don't think a normal island dweller would need nearly that many pieces of luggage, either.

WHAT exactly is the purpose of this room? Does it just contain his 'off-island' gear, or is there a deeper meaning to it than that?

To me it just seems like this is a safe secret room for Ben to safely stash his passports and money for whatever off island trip he may need to take under whichever persona he needs to become, hence the different clothes. I really dont think there is that much more to it. x

To me it just seems like this is a safe secret room for Ben to safely stash his passports and money for whatever off island trip he may need to take under whichever persona he needs to become, hence the different clothes. I really dont think there is that much more to it. x

I agree with you :) - just thought I'd throw the question out there anyway!

This new info begs the question ... if Ben can leave the Island at will, why didn't he leave to get his spinal surgery?
Also how could he leave the island and not be missed? I would think that in such a small community like the Others have it wouldn't take long for anyone who came up missing to have their absence noticed.

http://wordsmith.org/anagram/anagram.cgi?anagram=Dean+Moriarty&t=1000

More anagrams

Those are funny! but after hearing Ben purr Karrrrrl last week :thud: the idea of his 'dynamite roar' is more than alluring.

Cultured, witty, well groomed and organised... Ben's gay isn't he?

Also how could he leave the island and not be missed? I would think that in such a small community like the Others have it wouldn't take long for anyone who came up missing to have their absence noticed.

Somehow, I think it is all TIME related. Not sure how yet, though.

Those are funny! but after hearing Ben purr Karrrrrl last week :thud: the idea of his 'dynamite roar' is more than alluring.

Cultured, witty, well groomed and organised... Ben's gay isn't he?

Ahaha, that made me :lol: so hard.

Why would someone who lives on a tropical island and never leaves need a 15 or 20 sets of business clothes? I think that would arouse suspicion pretty quickly.


It's not a matter of what he needs, but rather of what he has. Do other people
routinely go through his closet to choose his outfits or what? What does he need
golf shirts for? Maybe sometimes he wants to get dressed up, like on special
occasions. Would it be weird if Juliet had a little black dress in her closet?

Sorry if this has been discussed before but im sure i recognise the swiss passport that Sayid found in the secret closet
I swear i seen one similar in a flashback, think it was Juliets

Anyone else get a similar feeling?

Also how could he leave the island and not be missed? I would think that in such a small community like the Others have it wouldn't take long for anyone who came up missing to have their absence noticed.

People thought Bonnie & Greta were on assignment in Canada, so people coming and leaving the island was not that unusual. Richard, Ethan left to get Juliet. We just haven't had a current circumstance where Ben has left the island, that we know of.

Why do you suppose Ben was willing to put himself in Jack's dubious surgeon's hands if he clearly had other options?

The only passport I recall, was the fake one that Eko had bought.

Why do you suppose Ben was willing to put himself in Jack's dubious surgeon's hands if he clearly had other options?

I cannot claim credit for this thought, but it has been said that he truly believes the island sent Jack to him and he had to do the work of convincing Jack to do the surgery. I guess it worked :)

Why do you suppose Ben was willing to put himself in Jack's dubious surgeon's hands if he clearly had other options?


1. Jack was a famous surgeon who had worked 'miracles'. Nothing dubious there.

2. Didn't Hendry find out about the tumor not long before 815 crashed and brought a
surgeon to him?

3. Along the lines of #2, Henry thought it was fated that he needed a surgeon and one
suddenly appeared.

It's not a matter of what he needs, but rather of what he has. Do other people
routinely go through his closet to choose his outfits or what? What does he need
golf shirts for? Maybe sometimes he wants to get dressed up, like on special
occasions. Would it be weird if Juliet had a little black dress in her closet?

Well...YEAH. I think it would be pretty weird if Juliet had a little black dress in her closet. Doesn't mean that the other Others would find it weird, after all, she didn't know she was coming to a tropical island when she packed.

Ben, however, wanted people to think he had lived on the island his entire life, and if he had a closet full of business suits that he never wore, I think it would get around this little community and people would find it odd.

Lol. Why are we debating this point again?

Lol. Why are we debating this point again?

My thoughts exactly!! Lol!! It's just a room full of clothes and a safe place to stash his passports and money. I don't know about anyone else but I never got the impression the 'others' knew anything less about frequent trips off the island e.g. recruiting Juliet. Why wouldn't Ben be a part of this?? I think some are reading waaaay too much into this!! x

Really? I totally saw the clothes as contemporary, and rather sharp.

Actually, yeah - I just checked out DarkUFO, who had a nice screencap here: http://losteastereggs.blogspot.com/

Ben's a total metrosexual in the 'real world'. :biggrin:

I was referring to the clothes he was wearing in the photo, not those in his secret room.

Cassady drove the Furthur bus on the '72 tour and was a key player in the Acid Tests (which were also odd social/psychological experiments, much like DHARMA)....why the Swiss passport and why Dean Moriarty?

This early post was sorta ignored. I want to point out that if they went to the trouble of selecting the first name Dean w/Moriarty, they did it on purpose - Dean Moriarty being one of the characters in Jack Kerouac's On the Road -- so I agree it's a reference to 1960s experiences.

More '60s: As pointed out by poster Joe Hogan in a recent JWoods blog http://www.powells.com/blog/?p=2910#more-2910 (the only Lost blog I am aware of that treats Lost as literature) Timothy Leary's book, "The Psychedelic Experience: A Manual Based on the Tibetan Book of the Dead" was co-written by ... get this ... one Richard Alpert. Cool, hunh?

Get this redux, the book suggests the psychedelic experience takes one through steps similar to the Buddhist concept of Bardo - steps in the afterlife that one must pass through (usually with the aid of chanting monks). The sights seen in each Bardo must be ignored because they are manifestations along the path to enlightenment. You follow this one, you will be destined to hell, you follow this one, you will have to start all over again. But if you stay your course, you will be saved. Similarly, LSD visions, we are told, as merely constructs of the mind, are to be learned from but not taken seriously. Stay on the path and you will come out the other side unscathed. (Ignore that horse in the jungle, Kate!) This, of course, is why they call it a "trip."

As for why Ben might be traveling back in time, I don't think it's "to recruit Others," as an earlier post suggests. I agree it's an "ordering of chaos," as someone else here said. (sorry- I can't figure out how to quote more than one post in the thread!) Perhaps Ben's mission is to course correct. Perhaps he is just trying his best to fix things.

Well...YEAH. I think it would be pretty weird if Juliet had a little black dress in her closet. Doesn't mean that the other Others would find it weird, after all, she didn't know she was coming to a tropical island when she packed.

Ben, however, wanted people to think he had lived on the island his entire life, and if he had a closet full of business suits that he never wore, I think it would get around this little community and people would find it odd.

Lol. Why are we debating this point again?


Exactly. Why wouldn't Juliet pack something nice with her in case she had a meeting
or there was some formal event to attend? If I was going away for 6 months I'd take
a suit with me in case. Besides, who says Ben never wears his suits?


This is an issue to me because Ben seemingly went out of his way to utilize a secret
closet in his own house. This raises the point of who exactly he was hiding these items
from and why. So many people in this thread just assume that it's because Ben doesn't
want The Others to know he comes and goes from the Island. If that's the case then
that means he feels he cannot be secure even in his own house. I mean, who is he
hiding the suits and suitcases from? Certainly his inner circle must know unless Ben
went shopping at Brooks Brothers himself and came back with a few suitcases of suits
unknown to anyone. The room is not so much a secure place to keep valuables as it is a
place to hide items from at least some of his own people.


This does imply some combination of: 1) Ben told his people he never leaves, 2) If he
does leave it has to be a secret, 3) Somehow wearing a suit when he travels is important
(why does he dress up when he travels?), 4) Wearing a suit would give him up.


I find it interesting that Ben's 'double life' has him as a businessman, as if his hippy
commune friends would freak if they knew that he was working for The Man (or was
The Man) or even had some suits in his closet, God forbid.


"Ben, what's that? An Italian suit? Dude, what kind of stiff would wear that? I thought you
said that we should throw off the yoke of our corporate masters, man. Why are you
spending the co-op money on the uniform of the establishment? Freakin' hypocrite."

For the curious, here's a screencap (http://bp0.blogger.com/_RrObyQ3XzcY/R7VVNW3EfMI/AAAAAAAATv4/hFjuKO6bf7g/s1600-h/lost.s04e03.720p.hdtv.x264-ctu.mkv_001533949.jpg)...

Now I'd like to know which Dean Moriarty the writers are referencing... probably both! :)

Yes, yes, yes! (I love Conan Doyle) :)

Professor Moriary's first name was James, though. BUT, in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, by Alan Moore, there is a character called Dean Moriarty. He is the grandson or great-grandson (sorry, I can't remember which) of the Professor Moriarty of Conan Doyle's books. It's a great little reference and, as with so many other character names in Lost, gives us another little insight into the character.

quizzical (I was replying to eyris as you were posting)- James Moriarty is the 'M' of Moore's books. Dean Moriarty is the grandson. I think we're being told that Ben is a descendant of the original arch enemy in Lost, whoever that will be.

I haven't read Black Dossier yet - is that where Dean comes in? Anyway, it could be a nod to both our theories. :biggrin:

It is indeed Black Dossier, and yes I'd subscribe to your theory. I've certainly never waivered from the belief that they Losties were chosen to be on that flight. Locke is right.

Maybe each passport represents a country where you can enter and leave the Island...