The rockets timing was off...obviously there is a time continumiun here as the timers were off...that kills our string theory theory

It was off by like 30 mins if I remember right. Not sure how that figures into things yet. The last few eps have left my brain mush.

So, was it about 30 minutes difference? As in, on the island 30 minutes passed and outside only 2 minutes????

..Wouldn't that would mean that like, only 4 days have passed in the real world since the crash???

...Mind going into overdrive here!

There was a delay in how long it took the payload to reach the beacon. I wonder if this time difference gets longer, the further from the Island you travel.
Is time slower on the island, or is it something else?

the time difference depends on the angle of entry and exit. The Rocket came in at an angle that resulted in a 31 minute differnce. Daniel warned Frank to leave at the same exact angle as they came in, lest there be a great time discrepancy. (Interesting hint of things to come for the Chopper occupants?)
Also explains why Ben told Micheal to follow the bearing he told him to. Either to make sure Micheal didn't experience a time difference...or maybe to ENSURE that Micheal experiences a time difference?
And since radio waves propigate in all dirrections simultaneously, then the wave that enters and exits the barrier at the angle neccessary to experience no delta T is the wave that makes it to the recipient, thus radio communications are not affected by the time difference.

That scene reminded me of Back 2 The Future when Doc Brown showed Marty the time machine for the first time. He sent Einstein the dog back in time and when he returned the clocks were out of sync.

Score 1 for the time dillation theorists -- thumbs up!

That was EXCELLENT. And I *think* Dan's warning was b/c Lapidus could end up moving out of the current time... or something?

but the red sox won the series still....so that had to be a clue

The rocket scene proves that island time is slower than 'rest of the world' time. I think the key is knowing how long that the Freighties have been in the island until the rocket is fired. Assuming Daniel has been traipsing around for 6 hours, the island lost 30 minutes. The big question is how long has Daniel been on the island. It was dark when he landed and now appears mid-day. If this is true, the island loses a day every 12 rest of the world days, but they are able to maintain real time radio comms.

This would allow them to completely forecast things that are happening around the island, which completely explains how Ben knew the freighter (and the 815) was coming.

This is a huge reveal.

-Mad.Matt

so is this what was froeshadowed when hurley, listening to the radio playing old music, said it could be coming from any time?

but the red sox won the series still....so that had to be a clue
Time difference does not equal different time. ;)

in other words, just because two watches don't match doesn't mean the wearers of the watch experienced different histories.

The rocket scene proves that island time is slower than 'rest of the world' time. I think the key is knowing how long that the Freighties have been in the island until the rocket is fired. Assuming Daniel has been traipsing around for 6 hours, the island lost 30 minutes. The big question is how long has Daniel been on the island. It was dark when he landed and now appears mid-day. If this is true, the island loses a day every 12 rest of the world days, but they are able to maintain real time radio comms.

This would allow them to completely forecast things that are happening around the island, which completely explains how Ben knew the freighter (and the 815) was coming.

This is a huge reveal.

-Mad.Matt

Why is the Freighties length of time on the island the key? Is it coordinated to his satellite phone's time? Please explain.

It looks like there is a time desparity here no matter what the case.

Then how come Alex is only sixteen? If Time moved slower wouldn't peolpe also age slower? Because time would be occurring normally but the island is losing time compared to the real world which makes it slower . . .

This stuff really becomes confusing . . .

It looks like there is a time desparity here no matter what the case.

Then how come Alex is only sixteen? If Time moved slower wouldn't peolpe also age slower? Because time would be occurring normally but the island is losing time compared to the real world which makes it slower . . .

This stuff really becomes confusing . . .

I'm confused too. But it Richard Alpert's age must be brought up in this too...

If what Mad.Max said is true, then wouldn't the island be "decelerating" in time? Or, depending on the point of view, the rest of the world would be accelerating?

But it DOES confirm slow time! :)

What should have taken 1 minute took 31 minutes. This means time is slower on the Island than wherever the freighter is. This also means the freighter is outside, what I will now call, the "Snowglobe."

1 minute in the outside world = 31 minutes on the Island.

One hour in the outside world = slightly less than two hours on the Island

One day on the mainland = a little over 46.45 hours or a little less than two days on the Island

One week = 13.54 days on the Island

Four weeks = 54.15 days or slightly less than two months.

See, this is the problem. 31 minutes will exponentially make mainland time and Island time further and further apart from each other as time progresses. This is why Daniel had a very concerned look on his face.

I think we've also discovered the urgency of "going back and rescuing their friends."

I think we've confirmed that the hatch was keeping this from happening and it began after the hatch imploded.

How would they be able to communicate in real time if there is some sort of time warp?

That Charlotte character did exclaim in an astonished demeanor "You people have survived here THIS long" (I paraphrase). But is 90 to 100 days really all that long to be astonished at a group's survival on an island with plenty of food and so on? Has it been much, much longer to those in the real world? After all she did dig up a polar bear in the desert with a Dharma collar on it.

Time is certainly not right on this island.

Cool show indeed.

lets not forget, time is just a symbolic system invented by humans. even with this though, i definately think this was a HUGE reveal. but only 31 minutes? kinda lame. i agree with the notion that the further away from the island you are, the greater the time difference is

It was a 31 minute 20 second time difference.

See, this is the problem. 31 minutes will exponentially make mainland time and Island time further and further apart from each other as time progresses. This is why Daniel had a very concerned look on his face.

Exactly. That's what I meant by accelerating/decelerating.

EVEN WORSE!!!!! :biggrin:

It was a 31 minute 20 second time difference.

HEY!!!

The 31 minute time difference is NOT a constant!!

The time difference depends on the ange of entry or exit of the Snowglobe. Daniel made it clear to Frank that the path he takes to leave the Island must be the same as the path he took to come to the Island.

If Frank does not take the exact same path, which he no doubt will fail to do or else they wouldn't have brought it up in the first place, we will no doubt be seeing another time discrepancy, but this time between the Island and Desmond, Sayid and Frank.
But this time it will not be only 31 minutes.

Oops. It's actually 31 minutes 19 seconds. I just double checked it.

can someone do the math? 31 minutes 19 seconds to their 100 days? I have to go back but I think Jack said 100 days on the island


i teach chemistry...not math...lol...I use calculators nd dont know the formula...lol

A 31 to 1 time difference would get really big really fast. 90 days on the outside world would be over 2000 on the island. I think maybe it is only when coming or going that there is a time difference. Maybe you lose time coming to the island and gain it back when leaving.

Yeah, its not so much that the world and the island are running at different rates. Its that ENTERING/LEAVING THE ISLAND AT THE WRONG BEARING causes some type of time dilation. Hence when Faraday stressed to the pilot to leave at the right bearing, and why Ben gave Michael those bearings.

I think the Dan warning is so they dont run out of gas...an extra 1/2 hour will be a problem considering they're already low.

Obviously Daniel was expecting a time differenc of some sort or he wouldn't have had a clock sent in.

Time runs slower on the island, but it is not directly related to the time it took the rocket to travel to the island. One minute of rocket flight play-by-play on the radio took 31 minutes and a bit because that's how far off Daniel's watch has become since he landed. If he had done the experiment a day later, it would have appeared to have taken even longer.

This is exactly the conundrum, the difference gets greater the longer they are on the island. So this is the opening that Ben and the others have been using to influence events on the island. By monitoring events off the island, they will know far in advance what is coming their way. Which is why Ben was not the least surprised by 815 crashing. This is a HUGE advantage to defending the island, but know that their comms equipment is down, they are flying blind. The funny thing is that this is not exactly a profitable scenario. If it were the other way around (time in the world was slower than on the island), one could handily profit from that knowledge depending on what was happening on the island.

What could the industrialists leverage by having control of this time discrepancy?

Mad.Matt

That Charlotte character did exclaim in an astonished demeanor "You people have survived here THIS long" (I paraphrase). But is 90 to 100 days really all that long to be astonished at a group's survival on an island with plenty of food and so on? Has it been much, much longer to those in the real world? After all she did dig up a polar bear in the desert with a Dharma collar on it.

Time is certainly not right on this island.

Cool show indeed.

Not to mention the fact that people made an issue out of Lewis getting her Master's at 25.

I always wondered about this issue because Des downed the plane on Sep 22 and it seemed to sync up with what he thought the day was. Also Alex seems to have aged normally, meaning that sixteen years had passed since Danielle crashed.

However, Walt appeared to Locke older. Also, Ben could easily have faked the footage of the Red Sox. What I mean is that he could have gotten a copy of the tape which he did even though (theoretically speaking it happened 4 years ago assuming itys 2008 on the show in the real world.) Then he could have done the same thing with Juliet -- had Richard film Juliet's sister with Julian on the day he said he would and then just show it to her when the days synced up.

I'm still very confused . . . :confused:

I understand what everyone is saying...well...somewhat, cause this is makin my head spin! haha But an earlier post said this would give Ben the opportunity to know whats gonna happen before it does, which is untrue. He didnt know 815 was gonna crash and he didn't know Naomi landed on the island so even if he has a spy on the boat why didnt the "spy" tell him about Naomi coming there? I really don't know and I do agree that Daniel was worried that the helicopter would go out at a bad angle that would really screw with the time.

I don't think this is really any proof that time moves at a different speed on the island, otherwise, how would Daniel have been able to communicate instantaneously over the sat phone with Regina, who's not on the island? I think it's more likely that a time shift of 31 minutes occurs as something moves in or out of the "bubble" of the island.

Ok, this is going to be hard to make clear.....
We know that Richard appears to be ageless. We also know that he has left the island. I wonder if there is something with the time that would cause Richard to appear to stay at a constant age. Like, when he leaves the island, he would age quicker off the island while he's there, right? Then when he returns, how would he end up growing younger again, or setting back to a previous age? If he time traveled back to the island at an earlier time, then everyone around him would be younger.
I am confused.

I'm still very confused . . . :confused:


I just want to know what time it is. :blink:

Eight how does the time difference work with your North Pole theory? (A theory I really like, BTW)

Oh forget it.
I tried.
You will all realise it soon enough...

but the red sox won the series still....so that had to be a clue

I think that's a the big Joke: The Sox won the series about a month after Oceanic 815 crashed. Then they won it again three years later!

The big clue here is when Jack mentioned, 'Man, I can't believe it's been 100 days since I've seen a game!' I believe that is what really confirmed to Dan what was going on.

That was such a weird off-the-cuff, give the audience some exposition dialog. He knows its been much longer than that.

Here is a great thread in the non-spoiler Theory section:

http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?t=87897

It (eventually) helped me understand the issues with time.

but the red sox won the series still....so that had to be a clue

How many times have the Red Sox won the World Series? ;)

Not to mention the fact that people made an issue out of Lewis getting her Master's at 25.

I always wondered about this issue because Des downed the plane on Sep 22 and it seemed to sync up with what he thought the day was. Also Alex seems to have aged normally, meaning that sixteen years had passed since Danielle crashed.

However, Walt appeared to Locke older. Also, Ben could easily have faked the footage of the Red Sox. What I mean is that he could have gotten a copy of the tape which he did even though (theoretically speaking it happened 4 years ago assuming itys 2008 on the show in the real world.) Then he could have done the same thing with Juliet -- had Richard film Juliet's sister with Julian on the day he said he would and then just show it to her when the days synced up.

I'm still very confused . . . :confused:

I think it will turn out that Walt has aged because he left the island, then returned. Alex has never left. She is 16 island years, in relation to everyone around her on the island experiencing the same time rate. I am just trying to figure out how Richard never aged at all.

The pilot didn't blink when Jack told him he hadn't seen baseball in 100 days, if there is some kind of time-offset it doesn't seem to be more than the 30 minutes observed.

I just want to know what time it is. :blink:

Eight how does the time difference work with your North Pole theory? (A theory I really like, BTW)

It boggles the mind becasue until tonight I had dismissed time warp theories or time dilation.

As it occurred though I knew the "payload" would not arrive. The thing I'll have to try to work out is that we suspect that they are contained within an EM snowglobe or such. I suspected that there was some kind of vortice or portal that took them to the island.

Perhaps the only time dilation or difference is while going through the portal?

Regina launches the rocket when Daniel asked. 30 minutes later it arrives. Perhaps the difference is the trip through the portal, but time on either side is in sync.

If time flows at two different rates then communication to and from the island would not be possible. If time on the island flows slower, then anyone getting communication from the island would hear a message sped up so fast it would just be a blip. Yet they talk to the ship in real time, the Flame station apparently had the internet among other forms of communication, and that guy who originally gave Hurley the numbers said he heard it off a deep sea listening post, presumably the message from the tower on the island before Daniel went and changed it. And lets not forget Sayid and Hurley picking up the music on the radio, again at normal speed.
Something else must be going on besides a change in the speed of time, there are too many instances that seem to contradict that.

I don't think this is really any proof that time moves at a different speed on the island, otherwise, how would Daniel have been able to communicate instantaneously over the sat phone with Regina, who's not on the island? I think it's more likely that a time shift of 31 minutes occurs as something moves in or out of the "bubble" of the island.


Good point about the live communication. Makes you think it is only upon coming onto or leaving the island that there is a time discrepancy.

Because...Ben left the Island and came back....and maybe ben could choose, "when" to come back to the "earlier" point he left the Island. Thus, it looks like Richard never aged.

I am agreeing with the fact the bearing you leave the Island determines how much further or behind in time you get to the outside world. After Jack's remark about not seeing a game for 100 days, Daniel knew they came in from years after the crash and that is what prompted him to emphasize with the pilot to stay on the bearing they came in on.

I think it will turn out that Walt has aged because he left the island, then returned. Alex has never left. She is 16 island years, in relation to everyone around her on the island experiencing the same time rate. I am just trying to figure out how Richard never aged at all.

Obviously Daniel was expecting a time difference of some sort or he wouldn't have had a clock sent in.

He was expecting that POSSIBILITY, but hoping to avoid it -- otherwise he wouldn't have been freaked out when the discrepancy was revealed.

Also, the difference can't be TOO extreme -- everybody brought up Charlotte's comment last ep about "you've been here THAT LONG?" but nobody paid attention to her follow-up directed at Claire: "Did you have the baby on the island?"

Think about it -- if Char was coming from 2008, 3 or 4 years in their future, she wouldn't have asked that question about such an obviously young infant. It wouldn't make any sense to ask if a baby that's less than a year old was born BEFORE or AFTER an event that happened several years ago!

- mnw

HEY!!!

The 31 minute time difference is NOT a constant!!

The time difference depends on the ange of entry or exit of the Snowglobe. Daniel made it clear to Frank that the path he takes to leave the Island must be the same as the path he took to come to the Island.

If Frank does not take the exact same path, which he no doubt will fail to do or else they wouldn't have brought it up in the first place, we will no doubt be seeing another time discrepancy, but this time between the Island and Desmond, Sayid and Frank.
But this time it will not be only 31 minutes.

I dont understand the science of it, but I will go with it! So if this is true, then Richard's agelessness could be because the Others didn't get this angle of entry right while traveling in the magic submarine. Richard took a different path back which resulted in a time discrepancy.

Just one more reference to Inner Earth. If you look at the various stages of Lost you can link all of the weird stuff to Inner Earth. Its my theory and I am sticking to it.

You forget...they are talking on SATELLITE RADIOS. I think that has something to do with it. Perhaps this time field only goes so far up..and so their radio signals are bouncing over the time discrepency? And remember, Sayid had said he never saw that type of radio before...perhaps they are engineered in a special way.

If time flows at two different rates then communication to and from the island would not be possible. If time on the island flows slower, then anyone getting communication from the island would hear a message sped up so fast it would just be a blip. Yet they talk to the ship in real time, the Flame station apparently had the internet among other forms of communication, and that guy who originally gave Hurley the numbers said he heard it off a deep sea listening post, presumably the message from the tower on the island before Daniel went and changed it. And lets not forget Sayid and Hurley picking up the music on the radio, again at normal speed.
Something else must be going on besides a change in the speed of time, there are too many instances that seem to contradict that.

the time difference depends on the angle of entry and exit. The Rocket came in at an angle that resulted in a 31 minute differnce. Daniel warned Frank to leave at the same exact angle as they came in, lest there be a great time discrepancy. (Interesting hint of things to come for the Chopper occupants?)
Also explains why Ben told Micheal to follow the bearing he told him to. Either to make sure Micheal didn't experience a time difference...or maybe to ENSURE that Micheal experiences a time difference?
And since radio waves propigate in all dirrections simultaneously, then the wave that enters and exits the barrier at the angle neccessary to experience no delta T is the wave that makes it to the recipient, thus radio communications are not affected by the time difference.

Yeah, Ive think you've nailed it. They need to go on that angle or the trip back to the freighter will take longer, and they might not have enough gas to make it...

I was expecting that shell to hit the copter.....whew!!!!!

;)

Here is how I think slot time works:
From the rocket we learned that 1 minute of Island Time (IT) roughly equals 30 minutes of Real World Time (RWT).

This means that for every 1 minute that ticks away on the island, 30 minutes tick away in the real world. So.
1 Min IT = 30 Min RWT
2 Min IT = 60 in RWT
1 Hour IT = 30 Hours of RWT
1 Year of IT = 30 Years of RWT

People on the island age normaly relative to island time and people in the real world age normally relative to people in the real world. But people on the island age much slower than people in the real world. For example:
Two babies born on the same day of the same year - 1 born on the island, 1 born in the real world.
After 1 year has passed on the island, the baby born there is 1 year old and has experienced 1 years worth of life. The baby born in the real world is not 30 years old and has experienced 30 years of life.

So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 9 years.

This might also be the basis as to why Richard Alpert has not aged. Maybe he was on the Black Rock and it crashed 600 years ago Real world time, but that would only be 20 years island time.

Here is how I think slot time works:

So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 3 years...

What world are YOU in again? In MY world, 3000 days is around NINE years -- maybe this explains why I've been so confused, though...

- mnw

If time is different, then how can they talk on the phone to people on the freighter? It doesn't make sense. There wasn't any waiting period between responses on the phone.

Here is how I think slot time works:


So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 3 years which is about how much older Walt looks.



No, 100 days in island time would only be about 110-120 or real world time. The island days are slower than the real world days.

I know a lot of you are thinking that maybe time is only a half hour different between the island and the outside world.

I have seen a couple of posts saying that the time is only lost or gained upon passing through the field.

Let me ask this, if that were the case, how would the scene disclosing the minor difference in time be written? Wouldn't it be a tad pointless to go through all the trouble of the foreshadowing of time discrepancies to have it just be a half hour that only occours when coming or going? Would a physicist come to the island to study a stable 1/2 hour time loss? Probably in the real world but not on TV.

Imagine the scene. Sayid is riding in the helicopter when they pass through the field, there is a flash, and suddenly Sayid is aware that he is now a half hour younger!!!

Awfully disappointing if you ask me.

I support the theory that time is exponentially lost/gained the longer you are on the island.

This might also be the basis as to why Richard Alpert has not aged. Maybe he was on the Black Rock and it crashed 600 years ago Real world time, but that would only be 20 years island time.

But Richard hasn't aged at all!!!!


I support the theory that time is exponentially lost/gained the longer you are on the island.


Plus we have Mittelos Bioscience which we all know means "lost time." Maybe it really means "lost in time."

Exactly! That radio signal could have been coming from a bearing that represents a time long ago (40s, I think).

So...if this bearing stuff is correct, then we need to ask ourselves...at what bearing did flight 815 come in at? Because that is the bearing they need to leave...and I believe Ben would be the only person to know that information.

so is this what was froeshadowed when hurley, listening to the radio playing old music, said it could be coming from any time?

But it DOES confirm slow time! :)

I think we've confirmed that the hatch was keeping this from happening and it began after the hatch imploded.


I am going back to read all the posts, but approx how many days (I guess island days?) since hatch implosion and current island time?

. I suspected that there was some kind of vortice or portal that took them to the island.

Perhaps the only time dilation or difference is while going through the portal?


Huh. I used to be (may still be but haven't given it much thought as of late) a big subscriber to the vortices theory, And this newest revelation actually seems to give it some credence.

It's like the pilot and his father who flew through the Bermuda Triangle, claimed to be enveloped in green clouds and ended up traveling a distance faster than possible. He concluded he had passed through some sort of portal.

Makes you think it is only upon coming onto or leaving the island that there is a time discrepancy.

Exactly!

I don't think this is really any proof that time moves at a different speed on the island, otherwise, how would Daniel have been able to communicate instantaneously over the sat phone with Regina, who's not on the island? I think it's more likely that a time shift of 31 minutes occurs as something moves in or out of the "bubble" of the island.

That's what I think too. Exactly. The time difference is just in the comings and goings from and to the island. Part of why Juliet had to be put to sleep to get there. Also when Richard is off of the island to video tape Rachel and Julian, it is the same date on and off island. Plus like you mentioned about the phone calls.

Sorry guys, but where are you getting 1 minute = 30 minutes? There are two different issues presenting themselves here, the real-time delay in the rocket being launched and actually landing, and the difference between the clocks. These are two different things.
We can assume that both watches were set to the same time the moment Daniel's helicopter left the freighter, and sometime between then and when he looked at it after the payload landed, it was 30 minutes behind. That does not mean it took 30 minutes for the payload to land, or a 1-to-30 time ratio. Two KEY pieces of info are missing: Exactly how long elapsed between the radio message of "Payload impact" and actual impact (this was not disclosed) although I guess we could assume that the scenes were being shot in real time, and second: How long has Daniel been on the island until he looks at his watch.

Mad.Matt

Also, if there was a time difference, how would that affect the light. Would the daytime/nighttime cycle be longer? Wouldn't the losties notice that.

What world are YOU in again? In MY world, 3000 days is around NINE years -- maybe this explains why I've been so confused, though...


Your right, good catch. I was typing 3000 and thing 1000.

No, 100 days in island time would only be about 110-120 or real world time. The island days are slower than the real world days.

How do you figure? If RWT is 30x that of IT then 100 days IT = 3000 days RWT.
Can you show the math for your 110-120? Thanks.

Madd.Mat said:
We can assume that both watches were set to the same time the moment Daniel's helicopter left the freighter, and sometime between then and when he looked at it after the payload landed, it was 30 minutes behind

I was assuming that the clocks were sync'd when the rocket was launched. That is when I would have sync'd the clocks if I were doing the experiment, not when I landed the helicopter.


If time is different, then how can they talk on the phone to people on the freighter? It doesn't make sense. There wasn't any waiting period between responses on the phone.

My guess is these people are well aware of the time differential and have technology that allows temporal communications. I know Daniel seemed to just discover the slow time effect, but I am talking about the people that are paying him. They already know.

Sorry guys, but where are you getting 1 minute = 30 minutes? There are two different issues presenting themselves here, the real-time delay in the rocket being launched and actually landing, and the difference between the clocks. These are two different things.
We can assume that both watches were set to the same time the moment Daniel's helicopter left the freighter, and sometime between then and when he looked at it after the payload landed, it was 30 minutes behind. That does not mean it took 30 minutes for the payload to land, or a 1-to-30 time ratio. Two KEY pieces of info are missing: Exactly how long elapsed between the radio message of "Payload impact" and actual impact (this was not disclosed) although I guess we could assume that the scenes were being shot in real time, and second: How long has Daniel been on the island until he looks at his watch.

Mad.Matt

I'm assuming both clocks were set at zero when the rocket was launched. When he compares them, the times are something like 2:30 and 3:00. That would mean on the island it took 2 1/2 hours to arrive, but its actual journey took 3 hours.

Using 30 minute time intervals, we get 5 of them on one clock and 6 on the other...

Thus Island Time is 5/6 the speed of Outside World time, if I've got that part right.

- mnw

Your right, good catch. I was typing 3000 and thing 1000.



How do you figure? If RWT is 30x that of IT then 100 days IT = 3000 days RWT.
Can you show the math for your 110-120? Thanks.



My guess is these people are well aware of the time differential and have technology that allows temporal communications. I know Daniel seemed to just discover the slow time effect, but I am talking about the people that are paying him. They already know.


Well...I guess that could explain the futuristic satellite phones they use. Could be some new form of technology that allows that type of communication.

Daniel stressed that the pilot was to follow the exact same way out as in....I assume that the helicopter did not take a straight path to the island as the shell would have to. Maybe there is a "map" with a correct way to get in & out that doesn't play with time.....hmmmm.

Richard knows how to leave the Island. So when he comes back, hardly any time on the Island has passed. However, you have to remember that everything is relative to our point of view on the Island.

We know Ben leaves the Island. So when he leaves the Island, hes going to age faster than Alpert. Thus Ben has aged, and Alpert hasn't...so it looks like Alpert has never aged at all. I think this is part of it. If they know how to leave the Island and choose how far back or ahead to arrive on the mainland, then that could explain that even further. They could even know how to control the ratio of time by entering or exiting at a certain point.

I think the sleight of hand about this show is the only date we know is when they crashed on the Island. Everything else has been expressed in relative time. "I got here three years ago" "I got here 15 years ago" but we are never given a year that Juliet or Russeau stumbled upon the Island. For all we know, Juliet could have arrived there in 1990. Russeau could have gotten there in the 1950s. I think it is dependent on the angle you enter the Snow Globe.

I knew something was up by the ambiguity of the flashbacks on last weeks episode. There was no mention of how long after the crash that they had found the wreckage. The only clue was when the newscast mentioned the year of the crash. If it was still 2004, why would she say, "In 2004"? So I believe our freighties are indeed from 2007 or 2008.

But Richard hasn't aged at all!!!!



Plus we have Mittelos Bioscience which we all know means "lost time." Maybe it really means "lost in time."

can someone do the math? 31 minutes 19 seconds to their 100 days? I have to go back but I think Jack said 100 days on the island


i teach chemistry...not math...lol...I use calculators nd dont know the formula...lol

They are actually on day 93 (our real time). I think Jack just generalized the amount of days they've been on the Island, Minnie. Like you, I'm not very good at calculating the time difference and I took three years of advanced math in high school, and, like you, I don't know what the formual would be. :biggrin: In my defense, and I need one, it's been 30 years since I did any kind of calculations. ;)

100%

I did try to calculate and what I got was they lost somewhere around 9.76 days in real world time if this is the 93rd day on the Island.

Here is how I think slot time works:
From the rocket we learned that 1 minute of Island Time (IT) roughly equals 30 minutes of Real World Time (RWT).

This means that for every 1 minute that ticks away on the island, 30 minutes tick away in the real world. So.
1 Min IT = 30 Min RWT
2 Min IT = 60 in RWT
1 Hour IT = 30 Hours of RWT
1 Year of IT = 30 Years of RWT

People on the island age normaly relative to island time and people in the real world age normally relative to people in the real world. But people on the island age much slower than people in the real world. For example:
Two babies born on the same day of the same year - 1 born on the island, 1 born in the real world.
After 1 year has passed on the island, the baby born there is 1 year old and has experienced 1 years worth of life. The baby born in the real world is not 30 years old and has experienced 30 years of life.

So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 9 years.

This might also be the basis as to why Richard Alpert has not aged. Maybe he was on the Black Rock and it crashed 600 years ago Real world time, but that would only be 20 years island time.
Good explanation because time is RELATIVE, which is a complicated subject, but perfectly explains the aging difference here.

middlenamewayne: That's a big assumption. Nothing was said or indicated about synchronizing watches at launch. Of course, I guess my observations go on assumptions that they were both synchronized sometime before Daniel landed. GEEZ I WISH THEY WOULD HAVE SHOWN HIS WRIST WATCH!!

I'm working on the assumption that the time on the watches was actual day "time", not a measured stop-watch interval. I'm also assuming that time on the island (not time during the trip to the island) is what moves slower.

So why is Walt the only one that looks older having left the island. Everyone else we see looks the same. Interesting that we haven't seen anyone in outside world in the flash-forwards that we have already met in a flash back to judge the age/time discrepancy.

Mad.Matt

Richard knows how to leave the Island. So when he comes back, hardly any time on the Island has passed. However, you have to remember that everything is relative to our point of view on the Island.

We know Ben leaves the Island. So when he leaves the Island, hes going to age faster than Alpert. Thus Ben has aged, and Alpert hasn't...so it looks like Alpert has never aged at all. I think this is part of it. If they know how to leave the Island and choose how far back or ahead to arrive on the mainland, then that could explain that even further. They could even know how to control the ratio of time by entering or exiting at a certain point.

I think the sleight of hand about this show is the only date we know is when they crashed on the Island. Everything else has been expressed in relative time. "I got here three years ago" "I got here 15 years ago" but we are never given a year that Juliet or Russeau stumbled upon the Island. For all we know, Juliet could have arrived there in 1990. Russeau could have gotten there in the 1950s. I think it is dependent on the angle you enter the Snow Globe.

I knew something was up by the ambiguity of the flashbacks on last weeks episode. There was no mention of how long after the crash that they had found the wreckage. The only clue was when the newscast mentioned the year of the crash. If it was still 2004, why would she say, "In 2004"? So I believe our freighties are indeed from 2007 or 2008.

So then how do you explain Alex aging 16 years on the island?

I knew something was up by the ambiguity of the flashbacks on last weeks episode. There was no mention of how long after the crash that they had found the wreckage. The only clue was when the newscast mentioned the year of the crash. If it was still 2004, why would she say, "In 2004"? So I believe our freighties are indeed from 2007 or 2008.

I agree with this. But, I know very little about baseball. Since this seems to be a clue or a time stamp, have the Red Sox won against the Yankees since 2004?

middlenamewayne said:
I'm assuming both clocks were set at zero when the rocket was launched. When he compares them, the times are something like 2:30 and 3:00. That would mean on the island it took 2 1/2 hours to arrive, but its actual journey took 3 hours.

Using 30 minute time intervals, we get 5 of them on one clock and 6 on the other...

Thus Island Time is 5/6 the speed of Outside World time, if I've got that part right.

- mnw

Is that what the clocks read? I go the 30:1 thing from a previous post. I agree that the clocks were probably sync'd when the rocket was fired. So 5:6 looks like the right IT:RWT ratio.
Every 5 minutes on the island = 6 minutes in the real world.

That kind of kills my Richard Alpert theory though.

So then how do you explain Alex aging 16 years on the island?
Because time is relative, and she has been on the island for 16 "island" years. You have to understand how relativity works. I didn't believe it at first.

From what I've read about Wormholes they cannot be Stable and Accurate at the Same Time, so if you were to go through one you cannot be sure Where or WHEN you would come out. My guess is that whoever is behind the "Team" coming to the island my think they have some kind of technology to control a passage through a wormhole, (or potal) Daniel may have figured out that there is a problem with this technology or maybe the wormhole moved? I don't know if that can happen? I am also betting Sayid is in a different Time than Kate Jack and Hurley. Something about Sayids FF seemed to be more in the future than 2007.

I posted a thread about Sayid being in a different time than Jack and Kate, I may ask the Mods to close it since it seem that subject may be more relevant here.

Because time is relative, and she has been on the island for 16 "island" years. You have to understand how relativity works. I didn't believe it at first.
100%

Because time is relative, and she has been on the island for 16 "island" years. You have to understand how relativity works. I didn't believe it at first.

Right...but people are saying that no one ages on the island, ie Richard. Alex has obviously aged since her birth.

So why is Walt the only one that looks older having left the island. Everyone else we see looks the same. Interesting that we haven't seen anyone in outside world in the flash-forwards that we have already met in a flash back to judge the age/time discrepancy.



Becasue Walt is the only one still growing. It's easy to notice the changes in a growing boy versus full grown adults.

As for the Red Sox - they haven't had to overcome the Yankees like they did so dramatically in 2004. Lapidus being a Yankees fan immediately knew Jack was talking about the 2004 World Series and NOT the 2007.

However, if it was suspected that there is a time difference (not sure how the outside world would know this unless it is Dharma) then they could have been briefed NOT to discuss anything after 2004 . . . although I don't know why that would matter since they're gonna kill them all anyway.

Still confused. :P

Right...but people are saying that no one ages on the island, ie Richard. Alex has obviously aged since her birth.

We don't KNOW that Richard hasn't aged, he just SEEMS like he hasn't aged. It may be that Ben leaves the island for longer periods of time and thus experiences more accelerated time and Richard may not leave that often or for that long.

Right...but people are saying that no one ages on the island, ie Richard. Alex has obviously aged since her birth.
Ben has aged since he came as a boy, but he I think he has also left and came back.

I agree that the clocks were probably sync'd when the rocket was fired. So 5:6 looks like the right IT:RWT ratio.
Every 5 minutes on the island = 6 minutes in the real world.


I wish someone would hurry up and post the EXACT times on the two clocks/watches. Meanwhile, I see that on this episode's Theories page on Lostpedia, someone has suggested an 84% ratio between island and outside world time. That would pretty much line up with the 5/6 comparative figure I came up with.

Woo Hoo! Score one for ME!!! (Until someone comes along and discredits me, at least.)

- mnw

As for the Red Sox - they haven't had to overcome the Yankees like they did so dramatically in 2004. Lapidus being a Yankees fan immediately knew Jack was talking about the 2004 World Series and NOT the 2007.


Right...but Jack's question was, did the Red Sox really win the World Series? In truth, the Sox won the series just this year. Lapidus, being a natural Yankees fan, responded to that as any Yankee fan would here on the main land. "Don't get me started," or something to that effect. Lapidus might think Jack is talking about this year.

You know...all of this probably has something to do with the Orchid orientation video.

I think in the process of experimenting and trying to control this time anomaly, they folded time onto itself so that rabbit appeared twice in the same period of time. Like they took a "past version" of the rabbit and somehow had it appear in the present along with the present version. Thus the reason they were so concerned about keeping them away from each other....because just like the Doc said in Back to the Future...the two items from different times occupying the same space could create a monumental disaster.

Add a death into this and you can have a Charlie who is there, but dead at the same time.

Going out of the snow globe and re-entering at the wrong bearing could also result in two of yourself. :)

Right...but people are saying that no one ages on the island, ie Richard. Alex has obviously aged since her birth.

Ok, this is going to be hard to make clear.....
We know that Richard appears to be ageless. We also know that he has left the island. I wonder if there is something with the time that would cause Richard to appear to stay at a constant age. Like, when he leaves the island, he would age quicker off the island while he's there, right? Then when he returns, how would he end up growing younger again, or setting back to a previous age? If he time traveled back to the island at an earlier time, then everyone around him would be younger.
I am confused.

How does this, and the time difference in general, relate to the fact that the women's uterus that was shown to Juliette before she came to the island appeared to be that of a women who was 70 years old? The answer that I rememeber Juliette getting was that the scan she was looking at was that of a much younger women.

This time thing is so confusing. :confused:

I agree with this. But, I know very little about baseball. Since this seems to be a clue or a time stamp, have the Red Sox won against the Yankees since 2004?

Yes they won their next championship in October 2007, though they didn't have to go through the Yankees this time to do it.

I'd read about this line in a spoiler printed in the TV Guide preview article before the season. So I was waiting to hear what the rest of the conversation was. I have to rewatch the episode but I think it's iffy whether Jack's saying they've been there 100 days and Frank not saying anything about the the other championship was possibly interrupted by something.

It should be noted though that this episode was probably written before October '07 so the writes may have been stuck especially if it turns out the "lost time" takes LOST into '08.

...another Darlton sleight of hand...

Right...but Jack's question was, did the Red Sox really win the World Series? In truth, the Sox won the series just this year. Lapidus, being a natural Yankees fan, responded to that as any Yankee fan would here on the main land. "Don't get me started," or something to that effect. Lapidus might think Jack is talking about this year.

Right...but Jack's question was, did the Red Sox really win the World Series? In truth, the Sox won the series just this year. Lapidus, being a natural Yankees fan, responded to that as any Yankee fan would here on the main land. "Don't get me started," or something to that effect. Lapidus might think Jack is talking about this year.

True. I'd need to see that conversation again becasue any Red Sox or Yankee fan wouldn't "want to get started" about hearing that the other team won.

However, Frank KNOWS they disappeared in 2004 so if it is 2008 in the outside world then wouldn't he say "Not only once but they won it again this year!" Unless of course, as I mentioned, they were briefed NOT to discuss anything after 2004.

True. I'd need to see that conversation again becasue any Red Sox or Yankee fan wouldn't "want to get started" about hearing that the other team won.

However, Frank KNOWS they disappeared in 2004 so if it is 2008 in the outside world then wouldn't he say "Not only once but they won it again this year!" Unless of course, as I mentioned, they were briefed NOT to discuss anything after 2004.

Right...that seems like a logical deduction. We're probably way off though. :biggrin:

Yeah, it is true that the clocks read like 2:30 and 3:00. Ragina(sp) did say it landed almost a minute after firing, though.

Ok, I have a somewhat confusing (at least to me) and possibly irrelevant question.

As Regina shoots the rocket to Daniel, she begins counting down the distance until landing. Now in my mind, as I was watching the scene, I pictured her sitting in front of some little radar image showing where the rocket was located and the path it was taking. Now, when she tells him that it's there, is that because on her radar or whatever, it has actually made contact with the island as she's seeing it. Or do you think she wasn't at all counting down from anything visual, but simply using a formula for it's speed and the location of Daniel's GPS?

I guess why I'm asking this is, that if she was actually looking at an image showing her where the rocket was located, she didn't mention seeing anything unusual. For instance it disappearing for a moment, or stopping in mid air or veering off course... whatever caused the 30 minute difference in her estimate and his receipt of the rocket.

Did any of that make sense to anyone other than me ? LOL

How does this, and the time difference in general, relate to the fact that the women's uterus that was shown to Juliette before she came to the island appeared to be that of a women who was 70 years old? The answer that I rememeber Juliette getting was that the scan she was looking at was that of a much younger women.

This time thing is so confusing.

Maybe, just maybe, and I am sure this theory is filled with contradictions, but just maybe people who show up on the island form the real world continue to age at real world time. So even though time on the island is passing slower, their bodies still behave as if they are in the real world. This would explain the fast healing effects on the island.

Here's something to consider:

We're all trying to figure out if time is different. It appears so based on Daniel's experiment. BUT HOW or rather WHY is time different?

I suspect they're trapped inside a giant EM snow globe at the North Pole. Well, we know that the poles have especially strong magnetic forces/properties. We also know that the earth itself has a strong EM field that encircles it.

SO what if the island is in an EM snowglobe at the NP -- wouldn't it have two or three times the "gravitational force" than say the rest of the earth? And if it has two or three times the gravitational force then wouldn't Einstein's Theory Of Relativity apply?

As I understand it as an object moves faster it gains more mass. More massive objects have a greater gravitational force which slows down time.

Course, its past midnight here and I'm getting punchy . . .

Ok, I have a somewhat confusing (at least to me) and possibly irrelevant question.

As Regina shoots the rocket to Daniel, she begins counting down the distance until landing. Now in my mind, as I was watching the scene, I pictured her sitting in front of some little radar image showing where the rocket was located and the path it was taking. Now, when she tells him that it's there, is that because on her radar or whatever, it has actually made contact with the island as she's seeing it. Or do you think she wasn't at all counting down from anything visual, but simply using a formula for it's speed and the location of Daniel's GPS?

I guess why I'm asking this is, that if she was actually looking at an image showing her where the rocket was located, she didn't mention seeing anything unusual. For instance it disappearing for a moment, or stopping in mid air or veering off course... whatever caused the 30 minute difference in her estimate and his receipt of the rocket.

Did any of that make sense to anyone other than me ? LOL

It is weird, because Regina seems to say it lands minutes after they launch it, but the timer reads 2:30. I think that would be 2 hours 30 minutes.

Here's something to consider:

We're all trying to figure out if time is different. It appears so based on Daniel's experiment. BUT HOW or rather WHY is time different?

I suspect they're trapped inside a giant EM snow globe at the North Pole. Well, we know that the poles have especially strong magnetic forces/properties. We also know that the earth itself has a strong EM field that encircles it.

SO what if the island is in an EM snowglobe at the NP -- wouldn't it have two or three times the "gravitational force" than say the rest of the earth? And if it has two or three times the gravitational force then wouldn't Einstein's Theory Of Relativity apply?

As I understand it as an object moves faster it gains more mass. More massive objects have a greater gravitational force which slows down time.

Course, its past midnight here and I'm getting punchy . . .

No...it makes sense. You bring to surface a very significant point here. There are some holes in it, but it's just an idea right now. We'll have to wait and see if this pans out.

Ok, I have a somewhat confusing (at least to me) and possibly irrelevant question.

As Regina shoots the rocket to Daniel, she begins counting down the distance until landing. ... Now, when she tells him that it's there, is that because on her radar or whatever, it has actually made contact with the island as she's seeing it. Or do you think she wasn't at all counting down from anything visual, but simply using a formula for it's speed and the location of Daniel's GPS?

I guess why I'm asking this is, that if she was actually looking at an image showing her where the rocket was located, she didn't mention seeing anything unusual.

It is indeed possible that she was going by coordinates that logically *should* be correct, rather than actually tracking the missile.

As for your query, in many of the time theories we've seen here, everything would seem "right" for the person on each end, though things are *actually* different (hence the term "relativity" -- it's all relative to who/where you are).

When I saw Penny's "real time" transmission and heard the Sat. radio conversations, I was ruling out the time differential. That is until I saw Dan scratching his head from the inside when the projectile showed up. One thing still bugs me. It was posted earlier:


Also, the difference can't be TOO extreme -- everybody brought up Charlotte's comment last ep about "you've been here THAT LONG?" but nobody paid attention to her follow-up directed at Claire: "Did you have the baby on the island?"

Think about it -- if Char was coming from 2008, 3 or 4 years in their future, she wouldn't have asked that question about such an obviously young infant. It wouldn't make any sense to ask if a baby that's less than a year old was born BEFORE or AFTER an event that happened several years ago!

- mnw

Was she just lying?

Here's something to consider:

We're all trying to figure out if time is different. It appears so based on Daniel's experiment. BUT HOW or rather WHY is time different?

I suspect they're trapped inside a giant EM snow globe at the North Pole. Well, we know that the poles have especially strong magnetic forces/properties. We also know that the earth itself has a strong EM field that encircles it.

SO what if the island is in an EM snowglobe at the NP -- wouldn't it have two or three times the "gravitational force" than say the rest of the earth? And if it has two or three times the gravitational force then wouldn't Einstein's Theory Of Relativity apply?

As I understand it as an object moves faster it gains more mass. More massive objects have a greater gravitational force which slows down time.

Course, its past midnight here and I'm getting punchy . . .

Anyone know about Faraday's Law of Induction? (yes, i said Faraday...)
Meg

SO what if the island is in an EM snowglobe at the NP -- wouldn't it have two or three times the "gravitational force" than say the rest of the earth? And if it has two or three times the gravitational force then wouldn't Einstein's Theory Of Relativity apply?

I am no quantum scientist, but I don't think anyone to date has linked magnetism to gravity. A large magnetic force would have no effect on the gravity. Einstien's Theory of Relativity addressed light, time, and space, but not gravity. He was working on a "unified" theory when he died, one that would explain gravity and tie it in with the time/space/light stuff.

It is indeed possible that she was going by coordinates that logically *should* be correct, rather than actually tracking the missile.

As for your query, in many of the time theories we've seen here, everything would seem "right" for the person on each end, though things are *actually* different (hence the term "relativity" -- it's all relative to who/where you are).

Right, I guess that does make sense. I think I just got myself screwed up with my involuntary little visualization as I was watching the show. My subconcious made me think that she was visually tracking it in some manner, when there was really no indication that she was. In fact, it would make no sense to me if she were, after the fact of course.

As for the relativity and it seeming right for the person on each end. Obviously, to Regina it seemed right, but to Daniel, that isn't the case. It seemed all wrong to him. I don't think that was just his reaction to her telling him it should be there either. He looked to me like he had an idea on his own of how long it should take to reach him. I do understand what your'e saying though.

My subconcious made me think that she was visually tracking it in some manner, when there was really no indication that she was. In fact, it would make no sense to me if she were, after the fact of course.

Yea, I sort of visualized this way as well when I was listening to her. Like she had a radar or something. She may have been, and I can't really wrap my head around what the radar would display when the rocket crossed the time rift.

There are actually three time differentials here: one when Regina launches the rocket, and we hear her point of view with the countdown; another when Dan sees the rocket crash, and checks the time; and a third which is from the point of view of the timer onboard the rocket.

For that timer, it has experienced RWT up to the barrier, and IT after it. It would be wrong to assume it's the same as Regina's time.

What fun!

can someone do the math? 31 minutes 19 seconds to their 100 days? I have to go back but I think Jack said 100 days on the island


i teach chemistry...not math...lol...I use calculators nd dont know the formula...lol


A chemistry teacher should know about conversions!!!:) 100 days would be equal to 8.58 years, assuming 31.317 time difference. Meaning 1 minute equals 31.317 minutes on-island, 1 hour would equal 31.317 hours, 1 day would equal 31-317 days, 100 days would equal 31317 days or 8.58 years.

The rocket circled around a time or two then found it's mark, the em fields threw it off

But it couldn't be a matter of time moving slower, but rather just a time shift having been made, right? Because after all, the seconds on each of the clocks were both ticking by at the same rate. And we were looking at it for, how long then? So say at least 5 seconds on the island goes by at the same rate as 5 seconds from an "outsider clock". So if there's a half hour time difference, wouldn't that mean the island's just exactly that long behind the rest of the world? That it's not exponentially getting bigger the longer it goes by?

So then how do you explain Alex aging 16 years on the island?


Right...but people are saying that no one ages on the island, ie Richard. Alex has obviously aged since her birth.



Alex is 16 years old, because she, and the people around her, and the island, are all moving at the same rate of time passage. She has never left the island.

Richard, and possibly Walt have left the island and returned. That's where the warping comes in. If Alex left and came back, she might appear out-of-time with those around her.

It seems like with Walt being at puberty, an accelerated growth rate at just the right time could make a big difference (as we have seen). Whereas, with grown adults, a year or so difference wouldn't be as noticeable.

But it couldn't be a matter of time moving slower, but rather just a time shift having been made, right? Because after all, the seconds on each of the clocks were both ticking by at the same rate. And we were looking at it for, how long then? So say at least 5 seconds on the island goes by at the same rate as 5 seconds from an "outsider clock". So if there's a half hour time difference, wouldn't that mean the island's just exactly that long behind the rest of the world? That it's not exponentially getting bigger the longer it goes by?

Once the clock is on the island it will represent island time. Assuming that both clocks were set to 0 when the rocket was launched, the fact that there was a 30 minute difference in the 2 clocks, with the island clock being slower, implies not a simple delta in time, but an actual differential in time passage.

This is the first episode where I actually started to believe that time is running much slower than the rest of the world and not just the 31 minutes that Daniel discovered. When Lapidus told Jack, don't remind me of that, about the 04 World Series, it seemed like he was talking about it like it was longer than a month or so ago it would have been. Perhaps the losties have been on the island for as many years as the show has been on, bare with me. It would explain certain throwaway lines, like when Jack told Sayid it feels like such a long time ago, and when he told Kate in TBOTE it feels like a hundred years ago we came out here. Or when Charlotte told Team Locke so you've all been living here this entire time. Plus if they have been on the island for years instead of months it would explain one reason the Oceanic 6 story is so big in the flash forwards.

Alex is 16 years old, because she, and the people around her, and the island, are all moving at the same rate of time passage. She has never left the island.

Richard, and possibly Walt have left the island and returned. That's where the warping comes in. If Alex left and came back, she might appear out-of-time with those around her.

It seems like with Walt being at puberty, an accelerated growth rate at just the right time could make a big difference (as we have seen). Whereas, with grown adults, a year or so difference wouldn't be as noticeable.

But how has Richard managed to stay "young"? That must play in somehow.

Doesn't Jack see the Red Sox win the World Series on a video tape? And on that tape don't they say that the Red Sox have won the "2004 World Series"

Also, I believe they are being blatently obvious with the big time difference. Walt getting bigger, people asking "you've been here THAT long," giving us a time frame on the island (100 days) so we don't forget.

Also, it is not possible for the Black Rock to be 600 years old. Dynamite, which is found in the ships hold, wasn't invented until 1815.

But it couldn't be a matter of time moving slower, but rather just a time shift having been made, right? Because after all, the seconds on each of the clocks were both ticking by at the same rate. And we were looking at it for, how long then? So say at least 5 seconds on the island goes by at the same rate as 5 seconds from an "outsider clock". So if there's a half hour time difference, wouldn't that mean the island's just exactly that long behind the rest of the world? That it's not exponentially getting bigger the longer it goes by?

I understand what you're saying. I think that is what some of the previous posters were getting at when they were referencing which bearing it enters the island on, being the deciding factor in the time that it enters on. In other words, had Regina fired the rocket from a different angle, it might have shown an hour time difference rather than 30 minutes.

Anyone also questioning this. There are 2 different ways to come and go from the island. The helicopter, and the submarine. How would a submarine pass through. Also, it is obvious that Ben leaves the island. He has passports from all over the world, and currency from all over the world.

I am no quantum scientist, but I don't think anyone to date has linked magnetism to gravity. A large magnetic force would have no effect on the gravity. Einstien's Theory of Relativity addressed light, time, and space, but not gravity. He was working on a "unified" theory when he died, one that would explain gravity and tie it in with the time/space/light stuff.

Believe me I'm no scientist either NOR a mathematician. So when I used the term "gravity" I mis-spoke. Wouldn't there be two or three times the gravitational force which results in a greater mass for the snow globe thus slowing down time?

I believe Einstein's theory was based on the fact that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. As a theoretical object approached that speed it would become more and more massive thus slowing down time.

So my thought is that the EM snow globe around the island is more massive than say every other spot on earth and therefore time is slower.

I hope that makes more sense.

Also, it is not possible for the Black Rock to be 600 years old. Dynamite, which is found in the ships hold, wasn't invented until 1815.

You're correct, the Black Rock is from the late 19th-Century. Confirmation came in the Lost Experience (http://lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:92DE8785E9.jpg).

I don't think the Black Rock has to do with the lost time discussion, more the Nigerian Drug Plane/Tunisian DHARMA Bear discussion.

Anyone also questioning this. There are 2 different ways to come and go from the island. The helicopter, and the submarine. How would a submarine pass through. Also, it is obvious that Ben leaves the island. He has passports from all over the world, and currency from all over the world.

It's that magic box crap he pulled with Locke. That'd be my guess as to how he would leave so often. And the time thing could play into how he could leave, be wherever he needs to be long enough and be back without much time passing.

Alex is 16 years old, because she, and the people around her, and the island, are all moving at the same rate of time passage. She has never left the island.

Richard, and possibly Walt have left the island and returned. That's where the warping comes in. If Alex left and came back, she might appear out-of-time with those around her.

It seems like with Walt being at puberty, an accelerated growth rate at just the right time could make a big difference (as we have seen). Whereas, with grown adults, a year or so difference wouldn't be as noticeable.

This makes no sense to me. It isn't pertinent to my question. Why isn't Richard aging if Alex is? Do you see what I mean?

Why isn't Richard aging if Alex is?

I hate to say this but I think that depends on whether the Island wants you to age or not, just as the Island healed Locke's paralysis but not Ben's, at least not as quickly as he would've liked. I think there'll be ways to predict how the lost time effects operate on the Island (I think it's getting clearer that's what Farraday's role in the story) so someone like Farraday will be able to manipulate them to an extent though.

I don't know if or how this would affect our calculations, but according to DocArzt's post about the deleted scene, in the rough cut of the ep the rocket's time lag was DIFFERENT from the 31 minutes in the aired version. (Maybe I should call this a spoiler, but it's already up in that post I referred to, in greater detail...)

- mnw

Also, I believe they are being blatently obvious with the big time difference. Walt getting bigger, people asking "you've been here THAT long," giving us a time frame on the island (100 days) so we don't forget.


I've also been reviewing a lot of s3 eps lately and when Richard's finally gotten Juliete to agree to come work with them, he says to her as he's smiling "I know 6 months seems like a long time to be away from everyone, but you won't believe how time flies there."

Another time issue ive been thinking about. Remember when they show Juliet's sister playing in the park with her new kid? Do they ever show the kid? Because that was supposedly a live feed that they were watching from the park, and if the time is that far off on the island, wouldn't the kid old? Juliet had been on the island for what, over 2 years? That kid would be like 18 years old.

The Elegant Universe - Einstein's Relativity (A Great Video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpbGuuGosAY&feature=related

It may help to give answers to some questins here.

I think something else you need to consider here is that the North and South pole are NOT the North and South MAGNETIC poles.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/29dec_magneticfield.htm

Interesting link of the day: http://www.psc.edu/science/glatzmaier.html

I think something else you need to consider here is that the North and South pole are NOT the North and South MAGNETIC poles.

How is this relevant?

If we are talking electro magnetism, people keep referring to the poles. That is the relevance. N/S Poles are not the same as N/S Magnetic.

just a quick thought: the island is in a constant state of acceleration, moving away from everything else. It is in a gravitational pit. This causes, of course, the time dilation effect we see with the rocket. Picture it as a dopler effect. From the Freighter's perspective, the island is moving away, shifting towards the red portion of the spectrum. When the ship fire the rocket to the coordinates where the island is supposed to be, it should have reached the island with no delay, but, as soon as the rocket entered the dilated time frame of the island, it started to be left behind, taking it longer to reach its target, because it was 'moving away' from the rocket.

Also, this might not have been always like that. I believe that the Swan's implosion might have something to do with this time dilation effects; most of all if we consider the Purple Sky Event.
If the time dilation started when the Swan's imploded, the sky turning purple might be explained as another doppler effect, this time from the Island's timeframe perspective, hence its purplish/violate hue, instead of red.

I have posted this article and links many many many times on these boards, so here I go again, because now it really seems relevant after this episode:

Likewise, light entering the stasis field would shorten in wavelength, becoming blue-shifted, so everything on the outside will seem to have a bluish tint in Ms. Still's perception. But while she experiences only one minute of time, thirty minutes worth of light energy will have entered her stasis field from the outside, making everything on the outside seem much brighter to her.
http://chronos.ws/phasing.html

In his 1966 book The Light of Other Days, sci-fi writer Bob Shaw posited a material he called slow glass. Depending on its thickness and tuning light entering one side could take no time, minutes, years to emerge from the other side. What if the snow-globe so often mentioned here were composed of a similar material? Light, or electro-magnetism, or time slows on entering the outer edge of the snow-globe, then resumes at the speed "c" on exit. Further, what if the thickness of the globe were uneven? Given an uneven globe, one would have differing time delays depending on the angle of approach. If the process reverses from entry to exit, (another huge presumption. Really. Why should it reverse?) the direction of entry would have to match the angle of entry for a traveler to return to the same time. Just a thought.

Back to the original poster's topic...Time is different off island and on!

Regardless of the reason, we have confirmation that time is different. Rockets travel at a predetermined speed. There is NO WAY that this rocket could have been off by that much time by some sort of mistake...that missile should have landed minutes before it did.

This episode (as usual...) answered a few big questions, and added a few more! Fantastic.

I'm still trying to bend my mind around this one. I took the physics sequence for non math majors so I'm having problems! If I'm understanding this correctly if you enter by the wrong bearing (not the one you left by) then you will arrive at a different time on the island than the one you left. Correct?

If Jack and Kate attempt to go back to the island and enter at the wrong bearing could this cause them end up on the island before they left? So they would be Adam and Eve?

Ok the differences can not be in time off and on insland. With all we've seen time off and on island have to be the same.

1. We know the absolute earliest the Dharma could have started was in 1977. Its unlikely but possibly that Ben was there the day it started. Doubtful as it looked like Dharma was well up and running. Still let's say he was there from day 1 and he was 8 or something. When he finally kills everyone he has aged some twenty years which when he figure out when the plane crashed, when Dharma started at the earliest it all adds up. Ben aged normally from the time he got to the island till when he gassed everyone. Ben did not leave the island once in that time cause that all Roger wanted to do was leave. He never could. Roger also aged accordingly. If time was different on island(slower) then Ben's first 20 or so years on island would be some 35-40 years time in the real world which does not jive with when Dharma was formed. It just doesn't work out.

2. Rcihard has left the island before and yet has not aged a day it would seem. If you leave the island and age faster when off, then he would be a lot older instead of appearing not a day older. Only way that would be possiblye is if he never EVER left the island. We know he was gone to recruit Juliet and he stayed behind when Ethan took her to the island. Not to mention its very unlikely Richard only left the island 1 time in all his life and managed to come off as the Mittlos rep so well. He more than likely was off island numerous times and yet never aged.

3. Desmond also discredits this theory as the day he crashed synches up with the plane crash of 815 being three years later. Cause in actuallity if time is so different on island then his three years on island would have ended up being close to 5 years off island. Desmond states the three years he was on island correlates with off island time.


4. Looking at Iman to discredits this theory as we have a rough outline of when he was on island and his time in the Gulf War. The time although rough in theory no way shows and big time difference.

The only thing going in this theory is Walt and the clocks. Walt I think, something else is happening to him. Something the others did to him in Room 22. The clock thing must speak to something else. Maybe this vector everyone is talking about but from the 4 instances we have on hand, time can not be moving tha much slower on and off island. Although never mind in the fact that the radios would not synch up at all. So the time off and on island is the same. Somewhere in the middle it is different.
100%
The vectors don't work either because of Desmond. The idea you have to enter and exit the same vector to not be affected by the time bubble doesn't fit with Desmond. Remeber he triede to get off island all of season 2. Some 30 days. Yet he never managed to. Which seems to point to the fact that there is only ONE vector which you can leave or enter the island (N 355). Which shoots the vector idea dead as for this idea to work, there would need to be numerous vectors to enter the island from and you would need to leave on the same one you came in. Although everything we have seen indicates there is only one way on and off island which means time would not change for that one vector. Its not possible to have a time bubble between the island and the real world if there is only one door to enter and exit. The theory only works if there is many vectors to exit and enter the island which is not the case according to Ben and Desmond and Mikhail. According to them there is only one vector on and off island.


To me it ssems turning the key slowed time on the island by 31 minutes. Not saying that its a 31 minutes to 1 min. Just saying that for 31 minutes when the key was turned timed slowed on the island. Which would mean now the ilsand is 31 minutes slower than the real world and in 1 billion years the island is still only thrity minutes slower than the real world. It was a one time thing that is not gradual. Why is this important to the show. Who knows, obviously it has something to do with the show or it would be here but its the only logical explination. The vector idea and the gradual slowing of time don't jive with everything we have seen in the first 3 seasons.

Think about it -- if Char was coming from 2008, 3 or 4 years in their future, she wouldn't have asked that question about such an obviously young infant. It wouldn't make any sense to ask if a baby that's less than a year old was born BEFORE or AFTER an event that happened several years ago!

Charlotte may be aware that the team was expecting a time shift/ difference of some sort. She could have been mentally gauging how much of a difference there was. By asking if Claire had the baby on the Island, should we assume Charlotte has information that Claire was pregnant while flying on 815? If so, Charlotte would easily confirm, in her own mind, that the Losties had REALLY been there THAT long. It fits perfectly. She knew Claire was pregnant in the real world, 2004. It is now real world 2008, let's argue. Charlotte's inflection even wnet along with a mental confirmation wih her questions.

Make sense? Hook 'em ;)

You know...all of this probably has something to do with the Orchid orientation video.

I think in the process of experimenting and trying to control this time anomaly, they folded time onto itself so that rabbit appeared twice in the same period of time. Like they took a "past version" of the rabbit and somehow had it appear in the present along with the present version.

Going out of the snow globe and re-entering at the wrong bearing could also result in two of yourself. :)

This is how Einstein explained hypothetical time travel and the possibility of wormholes. Each would involve an occurance of folding the space-time "fabric" onto itself at any given point. I have gotten comfortable with this notion having followed the science of Hiro Nakamura's time traveling on Heroes. :biggrin:

In a related note, take out a piece of paper. Draw a horizontal line. This represents the Island's time line - the perspective from which we analyze the time effect, and our "1" for all comparisons. Now, on the left side of the paper, slightly below your first line, draw another line, but at a slightly downward angle (say 15 degrees down, to the right). This is the Real World's "Parallel" timeline, "relative" to the Island's time. (But, remember that to Real World timeline travelers, like the Freighties pre-Island, this time line is not downward, it is level - Relative time). If you go so far as to make equal increments on both lines, say one centimeter apart, then draw vertical (90 degree) lines from the Island timeline to the (sloping) Real World timeline, you will see how the difference in associated values between will increase as you move to the right (advance in measured time).

This is parallel times/ universes. They are relative based on the orientation of their unique timelines/ space-time continuums. Also, consider that "Universal time" would be the entire left side of the paper (or the starting point for all timelines if you will), moving straight across to the right. Therefore, "Universal time" always moves in a horizontal manner, thus creating the relativity of differently orientated timelines within the government of Universal time - the vertical marker to compare differences among timelines.


Ok, I have a somewhat confusing (at least to me) and possibly irrelevant question.

As Regina shoots the rocket to Daniel, she begins counting down the distance until landing. Now in my mind, as I was watching the scene, I pictured her sitting in front of some little radar image showing where the rocket was located and the path it was taking. Now, when she tells him that it's there, is that because on her radar or whatever, it has actually made contact with the island as she's seeing it. Or do you think she wasn't at all counting down from anything visual, but simply using a formula for it's speed and the location of Daniel's GPS?

I guess why I'm asking this is, that if she was actually looking at an image showing her where the rocket was located, she didn't mention seeing anything unusual. For instance it disappearing for a moment, or stopping in mid air or veering off course... whatever caused the 30 minute difference in her estimate and his receipt of the rocket.


It's been discussed (in response to your post), but that is the question of the night! :biggrin: We need either Daniel's thoughts, verbatim, or Regina's perspective to figure this out for sure. We have our confirmation, but too many variables are missing to postulate a firm "time differences" formula, IMHO.

SO what if the island is in an EM snowglobe at the NP -- wouldn't it have two or three times the "gravitational force" than say the rest of the earth? And if it has two or three times the gravitational force then wouldn't Einstein's Theory Of Relativity apply?

As I understand it as an object moves faster it gains more mass. More massive objects have a greater gravitational force which slows down time.

Eight, you make a great point. According to Einstein, more massive objects create a greater distortion, or depression in the space-time fabric. This why more massive objects have a greater gravitational force, the "fabric" in their vacinity is "deeper" and causes objects to get pulled in faster with less chance of escape. But, I don't think it is because of EM. See below. I think EM is a secondary by-product of the element creating the mass and the mass itself. EM and gravity are related forces, influenced in tandem by their "parent" masses of matter.

See below, but I am not sure about speed causing an object to gain mass.

I am no quantum scientist, but I don't think anyone to date has linked magnetism to gravity. A large magnetic force would have no effect on the gravity. Einstien's Theory of Relativity addressed light, time, and space, but not gravity. He was working on a "unified" theory when he died, one that would explain gravity and tie it in with the time/space/light stuff.

But, a larger magnetic force would lead one to presume a greater concentration of "massive" elements, such as iron. More iron = more mass (for a specified locale). maybe I'm stretching (I need to stretch ;)).

Wouldn't there be two or three times the gravitational force which results in a greater mass for the snow globe thus slowing down time?

I believe Einstein's theory was based on the fact that nothing can travel faster than the speed of light. As a theoretical object approached that speed it would become more and more massive thus slowing down time.

So my thought is that the EM snow globe around the island is more massive than say every other spot on earth and therefore time is slower.

I'm with you on the "something has a greater force" part of this. Mass makes sense. Whether it's the North Pole or not really doesn't apply to this part of your theory, only that the island's specific location in on top of something of "greater" mass.

As far as an object growing more massive as it moves faster, I do not recall. But, that would not necessarily translate to the object weighing more as well would it? Because weight is a relative measure of one's mass versus the specific gravity where the weigh-in takes place, correct? So, if an object is moving close to the speed of light across the space-time continuum, and it gains terminal mass, would it gain weight, lose weight, or stay the same? I don't know if that's relevant, but it's related...

LOL, I just had a vision of a super massive object moving super fast then, WHAM it gets wrapped in the entire space-time fabric and, BOOM it all blows into nothing. I wish I could draw what I see, maybe it's what would happen if the Swan's fail safe hadn't been set. (Think of a throwing a bowling bowl 1000's of miles an hour into a blanket strong enough to obliterate all of the matter in both upon reaching the terminal collision). Whoa! :eek2:

just a quick thought: the island is in a constant state of acceleration, moving away from everything else. It is in a gravitational pit. This causes, of course, the time dilation effect we see with the rocket. Picture it as a dopler effect. From the Freighter's perspective, the island is moving away, shifting towards the red portion of the spectrum. When the ship fire the rocket to the coordinates where the island is supposed to be, it should have reached the island with no delay, but, as soon as the rocket entered the dilated time frame of the island, it started to be left behind, taking it longer to reach its target, because it was 'moving away' from the rocket.

Also, this might not have been always like that. I believe that the Swan's implosion might have something to do with this time dilation effects; most of all if we consider the Purple Sky Event.
If the time dilation started when the Swan's imploded, the sky turning purple might be explained as another doppler effect, this time from the Island's timeframe perspective, hence its purplish/violate hue, instead of red.

Fierro, you are my hero Mr. Portal Snow-Glober. I am convinced and 100% in your camp. You have ALL of the basis covered with all the information we have thus far, and it ALL fits.

02: 45:03 (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107979&fullsize=1)
03: 16:23 (http://gallery.lost-media.com/displayimage.php?pid=107980&fullsize=1)

The time difference

the time difference depends on the angle of entry and exit. The Rocket came in at an angle that resulted in a 31 minute differnce. Daniel warned Frank to leave at the same exact angle as they came in, lest there be a great time discrepancy. (Interesting hint of things to come for the Chopper occupants?)
Also explains why Ben told Micheal to follow the bearing he told him to. Either to make sure Micheal didn't experience a time difference...or maybe to ENSURE that Micheal experiences a time difference?
.And since radio waves propigate in all dirrections simultaneously, then the wave that enters and exits the barrier at the angle neccessary to experience no delta T is the wave that makes it to the recipient, thus radio communications are not affected by the time difference


thanks,,thats the clearest explanation I've seen to explain why simultaneous communication is possible.

now,hopefully Dan or Frank will ask what time it is nex time they phone Regina

True. I'd need to see that conversation again becasue any Red Sox or Yankee fan wouldn't "want to get started" about hearing that the other team won.

However, Frank KNOWS they disappeared in 2004 so if it is 2008 in the outside world then wouldn't he say "Not only once but they won it again this year!" Unless of course, as I mentioned, they were briefed NOT to discuss anything after 2004.

When they were briefed, they were told the passengers of 815 were all DEAD. So the freighties wouldn't have been briefed to tell the passengers anything.

Looking at Fierro's avatar of a wormhole, couldn't we just be talking about a time shift, rather than time dilation? Maybe it takes 30 minutes (from an outside point of view) to travel through this wormhole (or partway therethrough, wherever Lost island resides).

The difference in time doesn't have to mean that what should take one minute, takes 30. The rocket's clock could have just shifted back 30 minutes from off-island time when it came through the wormhole. We don't actually know how long the time was from firing the rocket to rocket landing.

So, if an object is moving close to the speed of light across the space-time continuum, and it gains terminal mass, would it gain weight, lose weight, or stay the same? I don't know if that's relevant, but it's related...

The weight of an object is its mass times the force (or acceleration) of gravity on it. Weight is relative. Mass is not -- except when approaching the speed of light! The faster an object goes, the more and more massive it becomes, which, in turn, makes it harder and harder to increase its speed. It's a Catch-22.

This is why nothing with mass can ever travel at the speed of light. The amount of energy needed to accelerate the object can never catch up to (much less, overcome) the increasing mass of the object. After a certain point, the object becomes so massive that it can no longer increase in speed. The only thing that can travel at light speed is light itself, or photons, which have no mass at all.

One of the ways in which TPTB may try to explain the time travel elements on the Island is through wormholes, which theoretically can allow objects to travel faster than the speed of light. In order to achieve a stable wormhole, though, one must create a patch of space-time which not only has NO mass, but must have NEGATIVE-mass. This could be what those rascally Dharma folks were up to in the Orchid Station! Theoretically, it is possible to create a patch of negative-mass through which objects could be allowed to pass at faster than light speed. And if you are travelling faster than the speed of light, then you are most definitely traveling through time. :-)
100%
If I'm understanding this correctly if you enter by the wrong bearing (not the one you left by) then you will arrive at a different time on the island than the one you left. Correct?

Yes. Assuming there is more than one bearing by which one can enter and leave the Island.

Imagine that the coordinates are not just bearings, but directions to particular wormholes through which one can enter and leave the Island at various points in space/time. The only way on or off the Island is through one of these wormholes, which would have very particular coordinates.

If you don't find the correct wormhole (or rabbit hole, as TPTB like to tease us), then you're going to end up someWHEN you don't want to be. Either coming onto the Island or after you leave the Island.

It's a neat theory, but only time (and more episodes) will prove if it's correct.

If Jack and Kate attempt to go back to the island and enter at the wrong bearing could this cause them end up on the island before they left? So they would be Adam and Eve?

Yes. They could be Adam and Eve. If they go through the REALLY wrong wormhole, they could even end up hanging out with the jokers who built that 4-toed statue. :-)

The £20 notes in Ben's drawer of his secret room ceased to be in circulation back in 2001. I don't know if that's significant or not: they may have only been used because of bearing a picture of Michael Faraday...

I love smart people.....excellent posts Lord....I couldnt have said it better myself

Right...and giving Ben an advantage if he know exactly how to use that. It could explain how certain "coincidences" seemed engineered...like Juliet's husband being hit by the bus.

I'm still trying to bend my mind around this one. I took the physics sequence for non math majors so I'm having problems! If I'm understanding this correctly if you enter by the wrong bearing (not the one you left by) then you will arrive at a different time on the island than the one you left. Correct?

If Jack and Kate attempt to go back to the island and enter at the wrong bearing could this cause them end up on the island before they left? So they would be Adam and Eve?

Now we need to work out how this makes the women die during pregnancy/delivery. If the time dillation has any affect.

What about the Xray's Juliet was shown? Does this help to explain why the women are older on the inside?

My head is spinning. Can this mean that the Oceanic 6 can find a bearing that could take them BACK to before Locke killed Naomi?




D/


Here is how I think slot time works:
From the rocket we learned that 1 minute of Island Time (IT) roughly equals 30 minutes of Real World Time (RWT).

This means that for every 1 minute that ticks away on the island, 30 minutes tick away in the real world. So.
1 Min IT = 30 Min RWT
2 Min IT = 60 in RWT
1 Hour IT = 30 Hours of RWT
1 Year of IT = 30 Years of RWT

People on the island age normaly relative to island time and people in the real world age normally relative to people in the real world. But people on the island age much slower than people in the real world. For example:
Two babies born on the same day of the same year - 1 born on the island, 1 born in the real world.
After 1 year has passed on the island, the baby born there is 1 year old and has experienced 1 years worth of life. The baby born in the real world is not 30 years old and has experienced 30 years of life.

So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 9 years.

This might also be the basis as to why Richard Alpert has not aged. Maybe he was on the Black Rock and it crashed 600 years ago Real world time, but that would only be 20 years island time.

good point about alpert, but what about Alex? she seems to have aged normally? walt too?

good point about alpert, but what about Alex? she seems to have aged normally? walt too?

Anyone ON the island will appear to others ON the island to age normally. Its only when you leave and come back that you would appear to have aged more; ie Tall Walt.

One problem - Alpert did leave to recruit Juliet.

So perhaps the angle of departure is a key component.

Originally Posted by teksmith http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/images/FuselageGreen/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thefuselage.com/Threaded/showthread.php?p=1762166#post1762166)
Here is how I think slot time works:
From the rocket we learned that 1 minute of Island Time (IT) roughly equals 30 minutes of Real World Time (RWT).

This means that for every 1 minute that ticks away on the island, 30 minutes tick away in the real world. So.
1 Min IT = 30 Min RWT
2 Min IT = 60 in RWT
1 Hour IT = 30 Hours of RWT
1 Year of IT = 30 Years of RWT

People on the island age normaly relative to island time and people in the real world age normally relative to people in the real world. But people on the island age much slower than people in the real world. For example:
Two babies born on the same day of the same year - 1 born on the island, 1 born in the real world.
After 1 year has passed on the island, the baby born there is 1 year old and has experienced 1 years worth of life. The baby born in the real world is not 30 years old and has experienced 30 years of life.

So if the Losties have been there around 100 days, then its been about 3000 days of real world time, which is about 9 years.

This might also be the basis as to why Richard Alpert has not aged. Maybe he was on the Black Rock and it crashed 600 years ago Real world time, but that would only be 20 years island time.


This can't be right - the flashforwards we've seen so far take place in the present. OUR present. Three or four years is the most that can have passed in the real world.

an earlier post said this would give Ben the opportunity to know whats gonna happen before it does, which is untrue. He didnt know 815 was gonna crash and he didn't know Naomi landed on the island so even if he has a spy on the boat why didnt the "spy" tell him about Naomi coming there?

Oh you know the spy is going to show up in like 2 days, and he'll be all "Ben, there's a woman coming!", and Ben will be like, "You came in on the wrong bearing! She got here days ago!"

Looking at Fierro's avatar of a wormhole, couldn't we just be talking about a time shift, rather than time dilation? Maybe it takes 30 minutes (from an outside point of view) to travel through this wormhole (or partway therethrough, wherever Lost island resides).

The difference in time doesn't have to mean that what should take one minute, takes 30. The rocket's clock could have just shifted back 30 minutes from off-island time when it came through the wormhole. We don't actually know how long the time was from firing the rocket to rocket landing.

Unfortunately, you can't see all the labels I put on that graphic. You can see the original here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worm3.jpg

Now, for those unfamiliarized with my portal theory, this pretty much summarizes it. The Entrance to the island is a black hole located in the pacific. The Exit is a white hole located in the indian. Those are the mouths of the WORMHOLE.
The island sits right there in a distorted region of spacetime in what's called the Throat of the Wormhole.
But why isn't the island crushed by gravity or the singularity?

There are 2 extra factors preventing this:

One is the Casimir Force, mentioned in the Orchid Video. This force keeps the walls of the throat from closing in on the island, creating the Snowglobe effect. In the graphic, you can read 'negative energy'. Well, that is exactly what you need to achieve such force.
The island might be ON the surface of the snowglobe (picture it as a balloon), rather than INSIDE of it.

The Second extra factor might be the addition of extra dimensions into this wormhole.

In other words, we are not talking about a regular blackhole, but a Five Dimensional one.

This makes LIFE inside it, POSSIBLE. (http://www.newscientist.com/channel/fundamentals/mg18925381.200-life-inside-a-black-hole.html)


Now if we assume not only that we haven't died on the way into the black hole, and that we can see the light which has an infinite blue shift we would be able to see some weird things. If we looked away from the singularity at the centre of the black