Unabashed Skater here.

Yay! Thoughts???

This was surprising twist for me. Really surprising. I mean, she was on Jack's side. But now Jacket is on one side, and Skate is on another. Fine with me!

I'm guessing there's more to the story. Either that, or Kate really is a flake who changes with the wind.

I didn't see her choice to stay with Jack during the first two groups as a romantic choice - it was a choice to leave the island and to believe in Jack's leadership over Locke's. She wanted Sawyer to stay with her, but he didn't. Now that she is with him again, she is reexperiencing her feelings for him.

I thought his arguments for her staying on the island were very sweet and also accurate - what does she have back on the mainland besides a prison sentence? (Or so he thinks, she certainly wasn't in jail in TTLG.) Why shouldn't she stay and see what happens?

I think Kate really thought about what Sawyer said - she really doesn't have anything to go back to. She'd just be running again. And a part of her loves Sawyer - he knows her better than anyone - he knows her truth.

She'll at least stay the night - get cleaned up, have a roll in the hay with Sawyer, then who knows.

I swear! I HATE Sawyer!

He is such a sleaze!

I really want Kate to PUNCH SAWYER RIGHT IN THE KISSER! POW!

Then this!:chair:

I agree, Jenny and Joshypoo. I definitely think it was what Sawyer said. I agree that Kate originally did not stay because of romantic feelings for Jack. I am kind of surprised that she is (apparently) one of the Oceanic 6... no reason to leave the island, as far as I can tell.

Ugh, just another example of her flip flopping. This is the same girl who a few days ago used him because she was jelous that Jack was having dinner with another girl. And now such a passionate rage of jelousy about Jack being with another women doesn't bother her. At all. In fact she is leaving them alone on the other side of the island.
And I'm meant to not only BUY this, but actually LIKE her character? And they use the screentime on this (no doubt Kate will flip back again after a few hours and this will become another pointless notch in the triangle story like the past three seasons) while Claire's apparent loss of her best source of comfort doesn't deserve anything? Because there isn't enough "time"?

[/rant]

Haha, sorry, had to vent.

I agree, Jenny and Joshypoo. I definitely think it was what Sawyer said. I agree that Kate originally did not stay because of romantic feelings for Jack. I am kind of surprised that she is (apparently) one of the Oceanic 6... no reason to leave the island, as far as I can tell.
She specifically said she was with Jack because she believes he can get them off the island. It reminded me of the way she specifically told Locke and Sayid that she wanted to go back for Jack because she owed him that. Context.

I really liked the Skate scene because they were finally talking TO each other again, rather than at each other. Plus, we got their romantic theme music from "I Do", which was unexpected but added a sweeter note to the scene.

I thought his arguments for her staying on the island were very sweet and also accurate - what does she have back on the mainland besides a prison sentence? (Or so he thinks, she certainly wasn't in jail in TTLG.) Why shouldn't she stay and see what happens?

For one, if she is/gets pregnant..she'll die. I'd leave for that reason alone!

Just another of the many amazing twists in this episode!

Why was Sawyer's offer "sleazy"? He was basically asking Kate to marry him. The Michael Giacchino sentimental music certainly backed up that interpretation.

I just wish Kate had answered the question. I have ALWAYS wondered what she was so all-fired hot to go back to.

I loved that scene for two reasons -
1) I never have understood Kate's burning desire to go back to the "world". She's a smart woman and knows that there's a jail cell, at least, waiting for her. She's made a place of respect for herself on the Island and, while there are dangers, she has become a much better person there than she really ever was in the real world.
2) James laid it out. His reasons for not going back and why she shouldn't go back either. He wasn't conning her or anything like that and you can bet there will be NO taco night in Otherville! ;)
I've never declared whether I was a Jater or Skater before but I guess you can tell from this post which way the wind should blow IMO.
We know it won't last or are fairly sure but I was proud of James and I was glad Kate at least listened to him instead of going her own way.

I didn't see her choice to stay with Jack during the first two groups as a romantic choice - it was a choice to leave the island and to believe in Jack's leadership over Locke's. She wanted Sawyer to stay with her, but he didn't. Now that she is with him again, she is reexperiencing her feelings for him.

I thought his arguments for her staying on the island were very sweet and also accurate - what does she have back on the mainland besides a prison sentence? (Or so he thinks, she certainly wasn't in jail in TTLG.) Why shouldn't she stay and see what happens?


Okay, I'm not much a shipper but I thought I'd toss this in there, cuz it crossed my mind. While this episode ended up with the skater-moment you're discussing, did anyone think that when she and Jack were talking (before he said she should go on the mission), she was looking like she wanted to bring up the 'i love you' stuff from the finale? Just the look on her face, all warm and smiling, the way she looked at Jack it seemed she wanted to say something, but then Jack brought up business.

That's why the 'playing house' scenario, and her decision to stay came as such a shock to me.

Who knows, maybe it was all in my head. Looking forward to watching it again. :)

Am I the only one who noticed that Kate felt like she was yet again a prisoner in a domestic prison? "What, am I your prisoner now?" She's having the same doubts and claustrophobic feelings that she did when she was married to Kevin. She doesn't want to play house. Kate didn't decide to stay behind; she was taken prisoner.

And what was up with her sitting on Ben's bed? And the under-bed angle of Sawyer's shoes entering the room (reminiscent of when his dad killed his mom and then himself). I was getting some weird freudian vibes.

Am I the only one who noticed that Kate felt like she was yet again a prisoner in a domestic prison? "What, am I your prisoner now?" She's having the same doubts and claustrophobic feelings that she did when she was married to Kevin. She doesn't want to play house. Kate didn't decide to stay behind; she was taken prisoner.

And what was up with her sitting on Ben's bed? And the under-bed angle of Sawyer's shoes entering the room (reminiscent of when his dad killed his mom and then himself). I was getting some weird freudian vibes.

Yes, this is exactly how I saw it. That she wanted to leave. But she wanted to know why he chose Locke's side.

Am I the only one who noticed that Kate felt like she was yet again a prisoner in a domestic prison? "What, am I your prisoner now?" She's having the same doubts and claustrophobic feelings that she did when she was married to Kevin. She doesn't want to play house. Kate didn't decide to stay behind; she was taken prisoner.
I could be all wrong (of course!), but it seemed to me that Kate was just angry about being kept prisoner...as anyone would...and her claustrophobic thing had to do w/ specifically that. But once the "prisoner" thing was over I guess Sawyer's comments had an affect. At least temporarily she doesn't want to go back and risk prison. I can't imagine life on the island or w/ Sawyer as ever being "taco night-ish," but apparently something will happen to change her mind. Maybe Jack will go back & talk her into leaving.

I'm not a shipper, and I pretty much loathe Kate. But I adore Sawyer and was touched when he made his tentative 'proposal.' He seemed so vulnerable. You know it had to be hard for him to leave himself open to a rejection. Maybe Kate felt like she couldn't leave him right after that? If that were to be true, and she was that sensitive & caring, it would improve my opinion of her. But I remain skeptical.

I think the tiny Jate moment we see before Jack suggested Kate go with Sayid and Miles, needs to be juxtaposed against the Skate scene at the barracks.

When Sawyer questions her about what she has waiting for her on the outside world, I think in that moment, Kate wants to believe that she could have a real life, not as a prisoner but as the woman she tried to be in "I Do". (This is not to say that this is Kate's main preoccupation, just her mindset in the context of this post.) Like, somewhere in her mind, she could get off the island and lead a life with a man like Jack. She wants to believe that she's good enough to have that. HOWEVER, Sawyer made a good point, and let's face it, she has feelings for both of them. I think the argument Sawyer brought up will make her think, possibly change her mind or throw her into an even greater tailspin of stubbornness (at which point she'll return for Jack and get off the island.)

I agree that Kate didn't side with Jack ENTIRELY based on any romantic feelings she may have (but perhaps a smidge.)

But since we know Kate gets off the island, looks like we'll have to fill in the blanks until we know more information on the how and why.

I didn't see her choice to stay with Jack during the first two groups as a romantic choice - it was a choice to leave the island and to believe in Jack's leadership over Locke's. She wanted Sawyer to stay with her, but he didn't. Now that she is with him again, she is reexperiencing her feelings for him.

I thought his arguments for her staying on the island were very sweet and also accurate - what does she have back on the mainland besides a prison sentence? (Or so he thinks, she certainly wasn't in jail in TTLG.) Why shouldn't she stay and see what happens?

I totally agree. I've been asking myself this whole time why Kate wants to get back so bad. Despite the flashforward of her, she doesn't know what is in store for her back in the real world. For all she knows Sawyer is exactly right about handcuffs being the only thing waiting for her back there. If I were her or Sawyer I would defintely not want to leave.

But the fact that she isn't arrested and in jail when we see her and is actually driving a really nice car and seems to be on her feet is just crazy. I'm thinking that maybe the airline somehow worked out some kind of deal with the marhsalls to make up for what happened with the crash. Sayid mentioned a settlement in his flashforward and I've heard mention of a possible trial for Kate, so maybe there was one and she got off. I'm ready for Kate's flashforward for sure...I want to see what happened with her AND I want to see who "HE" is. The previews for next week showed Kate being shot by tons of cameras so I'm thinking next week will be her...we will see.

Kate should be in prison, she should pay for everything she did. The fact that she's free (from what we saw during the finale) is totally unrealistic.

Sawyer has a point here and is right. He's also very vulnerable and you know that when he says"playing house" he doesn't mean sex.
He doesn't want to leave the island and the fact that Ben told him he was nothing outside the island is not going to help him to think different.

Kate is not a prisoner of Sawyer. Like Jack said, he'll protect her. If she wanted to leave, Sawyer would let her go.

Alright, I admit I am a bit biased, as I adore Skate, but im not a big shipper.

I thought the scene was really beautiful on Sawyer's end. His vulnerability and dare I say, romanticism, was beyond adorable.

I know Kate goes, and I am not sure how it gets to that point, but right now, I am wondering if Sawyer really could be the HE even though I highly doubted and fought it after TTLG.

I absolutely loved their scene together. The fact that they asked each other why they'd chosen the side they had. It was so refreshing to have them actually talk honestly about their points of view even if they diverged. And Sawyer's reasoning was spot on based on what information he had at the time. Why should Kate expect anything but a long jail term without hope for parole?

It was beyond adorable to see him make his proposal to her, from a vulnerable emotional place. And the fact that Kate stayed is fantastic. I do love though how she questioned how long they could play house and he didn't know. He couldn't make any promises, but he obviously was willing to try and take the risk of commitment. Kate seemed to really want it to work too, and was won over by him (judging by her choice not to rejoin Jack's group).

What a lovely romantic and heartfelt scene. The underscoring of the music from I Do just made it all the more poignant.:inlove:

I thought the acting in that scene was some of the most horrendous ever, but other than that Kate didn't seem nearly as happy to see Sawyer as he was to see her and Kate isn't going "play house" with anyone for very long so it will be interesting to see what she's got up her sleeve.

She's just become really gross with all the flirting with Jack and then jumping back into bed with Sawyer. I'd love to see both men tell her to hit the road.


I guess having a daughter back in the real world isn't a good enough reason to want to go back? You know, maybe pull your life together, act like a decent respectible human-being and be a father to your daughter? There's no doubt the child is obviously better off without him if he truly feels that way.

i'd play house with sawyer anytime...anywhere:glomp:

Josh is a great actor and he played that scene so well. It must be so hard for someone like him to admit such things. He wants to stay with her. You could read everything in his eyes. That was beautiful from Sawyer's part.

I thought the acting in that scene was some of the most horrendous ever...Just curious why you feel this way. I know I've felt that way about other scenes, but this one didn't stand out to me as bad. I thought JH was spot on. I'm not a fan of Kate or EL so I don't often like her scenes, but I didn't think it was particularly bad.


I guess having a daughter back in the real world isn't a good enough reason to want to go back? You know, maybe pull your life together, act like a decent respectible human-being and be a father to your daughter? There's no doubt the child is obviously better off without him if he truly feels that way.
We already have seen indication that he doesn't plan to have any contact w/ her. He left her that big fat reward anonimously and probably felt that was all he could do for her. The guy hates himself. I believe he feels like the best thing for her is to not be in her life, not because he doesn't care, but because he does. I don't agree with that, but I do believe that the character does.

Just curious why you feel this way. I know I've felt that way about other scenes, but this one didn't stand out to me as bad. I thought JH was spot on. I'm not a fan of Kate or EL so I don't often like her scenes, but I didn't think it was particularly bad.

I don't normally find scenes that just jump out at me as bad, so I watched it again to see if I was just being overly harsh, but nope, it was brutal. Then add in the sappy music and you're supposed to be touched or drawn in emotionally or something and man those two just never got you there. Both actors have a very limited range and man oh man was that scene a glaring example of just how limited. It was horrible and should've been scrapped in favor of the scene with Miles, Sayid and Kate at the sonic fence IMO.

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be mean and usually don't critique any scene in LOST that harshly, but I just found it to be very forced and not the least bit touching or believable, not like in "I Do" when she asks him why he didn't tell her they were on a different island and he tells her he didn't want her to lose hope. That was real and touching and acted and directed well and believeable. That scene last night just didn't deliver, not for me anyway, but I'm sure there will be plenty that loved it.

I know this is being discussed in another thread (WTF Kate) but don't the characters recall that Kate may be pregnant, and pregnant women die on the island? So why is Sawyer trying to convince her to stay on the island? If he were such a committed guy like he's trying to be in this scene, he should leave the island with her and do the right thing that a prospective father would.
Does Kate's silence at the question just mean frustration in having just gone over that ground with him in the precious water-splashing scene in TTLG? She pretty much got shut out there, so in a way I can see the futility of bringing it up again. But the acting didn't convey it. So anyway, why stay? We didn't see her actually agreeing to stay, and she does leave the island, so maybe it's just for a last fling. Either way, it doesn't do anything for her character. We're a little tired of "conflicted Kate" here.

I know this is being discussed in another thread (WTF Kate) but don't the characters recall that Kate may be pregnant, and pregnant women die on the island? So why is Sawyer trying to convince her to stay on the island? If he were such a committed guy like he's trying to be in this scene, he should leave the island with her and do the right thing that a prospective father would.
Does Kate's silence at the question just mean frustration in having just gone over that ground with him in the precious water-splashing scene in TTLG? She pretty much got shut out there, so in a way I can see the futility of bringing it up again. But the acting didn't convey it. So anyway, why stay? We didn't see her actually agreeing to stay, and she does leave the island, so maybe it's just for a last fling. Either way, it doesn't do anything for her character. We're a little tired of "conflicted Kate" here.
LOL! I'm a little tired of any kind of Kate here!
Re: the pregnancy thing, I'm wondering if after her pregnancy scare w/ Kevin she took steps to ensure that she couldn't get pregnant. Perhaps that's why it doesn't seem like a big issue to her. If not, maybe her choice right now seems to either take her chances on the island or being locked up in a prison. She might think (at least for a few minutes) that it's better to risk the pregnancy thing.

Guys this scene was touching and all but A) they knew this episode would air on Valentines and needed some pleasant romanticism [that didn't end in bloodshed a la Sayid's future relationship] and B) set up the next episode which I believe is a Kate flashforward.

They had no idea when this episode would air when they shot it. They hadn't even decided when LOST would premiere yet, much less on what night. You're right though in that it was a contrived set up for what's coming up. There were a lot of contrivances last night.

I think Saywer's out in left field. I think Kate is there to make sure they don't kill Ben. I think clear back at breakfast with Ben a deal was made. I think Ben has already promised her a way off the island in exchange for being a mole. Sawyer's not ready to face his off-island demons yet so he wants to stay and pretend that all the things in his past don't count.

I don't know if Kate stayed willingly or not and I'm not interested in the triangle at all, but when Sawyer said "why don't we find out" I couldn't help but go "Aw!". The bug lug!
Yeah, the pregnancy thing would be a good reason to leave, but if there's plenty of birth control around why not stay?

. That was beautiful from Sawyer's part.

I think that Sawyer does have a heart in there somewhere. <swoon>

I may be crazy for mentioning this or there may be contradicting info I am forgetting, but when I think back to Kate and the Marshall scenes - Didn't it seem that he was a little TOO motivated to get her? Perhaps there was information on her that only he had that was destroyed in the crash, remember the stuff in the briefcase he had? IDK - what if she knows the information that would convict her was gone when the marshall died? What if at home, with her mom dead (right?), there isn't enough evidence to convict her and she knows she wouldn't go to jail? Please correct anything wrong in the post ( my memory doesn't always serve me well!!)

I think the tiny Jate moment we see before Jack suggested Kate go with Sayid and Miles, needs to be juxtaposed against the Skate scene at the barracks.

When Sawyer questions her about what she has waiting for her on the outside world, I think in that moment, Kate wants to believe that she could have a real life, not as a prisoner but as the woman she tried to be in "I Do". (This is not to say that this is Kate's main preoccupation, just her mindset in the context of this post.) Like, somewhere in her mind, she could get off the island and lead a life with a man like Jack. She wants to believe that she's good enough to have that. HOWEVER, Sawyer made a good point, and let's face it, she has feelings for both of them. I think the argument Sawyer brought up will make her think, possibly change her mind or throw her into an even greater tailspin of stubbornness (at which point she'll return for Jack and get off the island.)

I agree that Kate didn't side with Jack ENTIRELY based on any romantic feelings she may have (but perhaps a smidge.)

But since we know Kate gets off the island, looks like we'll have to fill in the blanks until we know more information on the how and why.

I totally agree. I've been asking myself this whole time why Kate wants to get back so bad. Despite the flashforward of her, she doesn't know what is in store for her back in the real world. For all she knows Sawyer is exactly right about handcuffs being the only thing waiting for her back there. If I were her or Sawyer I would defintely not want to leave.

But the fact that she isn't arrested and in jail when we see her and is actually driving a really nice car and seems to be on her feet is just crazy. I'm thinking that maybe the airline somehow worked out some kind of deal with the marhsalls to make up for what happened with the crash. Sayid mentioned a settlement in his flashforward and I've heard mention of a possible trial for Kate, so maybe there was one and she got off. I'm ready for Kate's flashforward for sure...I want to see what happened with her AND I want to see who "HE" is. The previews for next week showed Kate being shot by tons of cameras so I'm thinking next week will be her...we will see.

In response to both of these posts: I agree that, once again, Kate is torn by who she thinks she wants to be and who she really is. At some point after she stays with Saywer, she'll leave. And I don't think Sawyer will be the "him" in LA. But I hope that she will go back to the island and that there Sawyer will be.

Also, as a note, I've always found it very weird that she wants to leave the island--even when she was fighting to get on the raft in S1, burning the pic off the passport and all. I think she is just so used to running running running. We know the last time she tried to stop running, she got married and played house, and it didn't work out. But as someone else posted, this time it's different. Sawyer is a totally different kind of guy who sees her for who she really is and is okay with it. They are both very flawed, but together they work. And the island is a different, special place.

So we'll see how long it lasts. Obviously she leaves the island, so it'll be ineresting to find out what changes.

I may be crazy for mentioning this or there may be contradicting info I am forgetting, but when I think back to Kate and the Marshall scenes - Didn't it seem that he was a little TOO motivated to get her? Perhaps there was information on her that only he had that was destroyed in the crash, remember the stuff in the briefcase he had? IDK - what if she knows the information that would convict her was gone when the marshall died? What if at home, with her mom dead (right?), there isn't enough evidence to convict her and she knows she wouldn't go to jail? Please correct anything wrong in the post ( my memory doesn't always serve me well!!)

I thought that, too. It's possible that the evidence he had with him, along with her mother's testimony, was all that could have convicted her. With that gone, Kate's perhaps not so convictable, especially if a jury nullifies based on her sympathetic plight as an O6. Perhaps those cameras were shooting outside a courthouse at her recent acquittal?

I, too, am not a shipper - but perhaps my Josh Holloway crush has me living vicariously through Kate... :) Anyways, I thought it was the beginning of a touching scene that got cut short by the rest of the action (though I assume we'll see more of their interaction next week). Also, I don't think she stayed as a prisoner, or that she stayed to play house - I think Sayid left without telling her, and as far as she knows, he's still around.

Furthermore (while we're on the topic), I think the "him" in the FF is her son. If Sawyer knew she was pregnant, he wouldn't let her stay, IMO. I think Sawyer gets stuck on the island but forces her to leave once they confirm she's pregnant.

I loved this scene, especially Sawyer's vunerability! I thought that JH did an awesome job there. But then I always love it when Sawyer shows Kate his softer side. It melts me like butter everytime! I could gush for hours....but I won't.

Instead, however, I really wanted to point something out about this scene which many people seemed to miss. Kate was never Sawyer's prisoner here, for the simple fact that she was the one with the gun!

I think that part of the reason she stayed behind was because she wasn't ready to say goodbye to James just yet. Maybe she wanted to see if she could still change his mind, or see if she could really see things from his prespective and be happy with that choice. Either way, I think her feelings for him kept her there--at least for the time being.

I think that Sawyer does have a heart in there somewhere. <swoon>
his heart is not hidden somewhere, he has a very big heart and he's begining to show his feelings even if it hurts. :)

I know this is being discussed in another thread (WTF Kate) but don't the characters recall that Kate may be pregnant, and pregnant women die on the island? So why is Sawyer trying to convince her to stay on the island? If he were such a committed guy like he's trying to be in this scene, he should leave the island with her and do the right thing that a prospective father would.
Does Kate's silence at the question just mean frustration in having just gone over that ground with him in the precious water-splashing scene in TTLG? She pretty much got shut out there, so in a way I can see the futility of bringing it up again. But the acting didn't convey it. So anyway, why stay? We didn't see her actually agreeing to stay, and she does leave the island, so maybe it's just for a last fling. Either way, it doesn't do anything for her character. We're a little tired of "conflicted Kate" here.

It's never been made clear that Sawyer knows that women who conceive on the island die. All he may know is that Claire and Rousseau managed to have babies safely, and that there are doctors and medical facilities on the island. And if Kate were pregnant, and they returned to the States, she'd go to jail and have the child taken from her immediately anyway. If Sawyer doesn't know that pregnancy=death on the island, he might actually think that Kate and any possible child would fare better on the island.

Why stay? There's always the possibility that she loves him.

I thought it was a wonderfully well done scene, calling to mind both their last conversation in Born to Run and that conversation in I Do when Kate tries to get Sawyer to flee the cages. It was what we almost never see in Lost--characters really talking to each other, explaining what they've been doing and why. I found it very moving, and Sawyer's last line in particular.

I thought the scene was okay, but Kate was very ambiguous with regard to why she was there. Why do I say that? Kate was not happy to see Sawyer initially. I'm sorry, but that's what I saw. She held that gun on him and never wavered. You would think that once she saw it was him, she would kind of be relieved and lower the gun. She didn't. Not only that but when Sawyer motioned to her to keep quiet, she ratted him out immediately. WTF?

I think Sawyer put his cards on the table, but not Kate. It was nice for Sawyer to finally express anything to Kate that wasn't a sexual come on (although he did have one in that scene) or a one-liner. I enjoyed hearing Sawyer express himself finally. At the same time, I don't get Sawyer's reasoning for wanting to stay. It makes no sense to me. What is on the island that's worth staying for for him? When Kate asked him that question, he simply countered with another question of "What's out there for you?" (or something like that). I can understand why Kate would want to stay, and Sawyer's reasoning for her staying makes much more sense - that is, if she's NOT pregnant. If she is pregnant, she needs to get off that island and soon.

Normally, Kate and Sawyer's scenes are pretty straightforward, and I can understand what each character is doing and why, but last night, it was full of WTF moments.

I think Saywer's out in left field. I think Kate is there to make sure they don't kill Ben. I think clear back at breakfast with Ben a deal was made. I think Ben has already promised her a way off the island in exchange for being a mole.
You may be right about that, wanders. I've wondered the same thing as well.

Sawyer's not ready to face his off-island demons yet so he wants to stay and pretend that all the things in his past don't count.

If I were Sawyer, that's what I would do? You make it sound like he's doing a bad thing.

Sawyer didn't ask Kate to stay because it was in any way in her best interest, he wanted her to stay because it was in HIS best interest. To me he is a weak man and very much still frozen in that little boy persona that was cast by his father's murder/suicide. He's scared to find out what kind of man he could actually become. Yet again he withdraws and acts for selfish reasons - he allowed Ben to get in his head with the comment that he would be nothing off the island and then tries to turn that same illogical thought process loose on Kate. So, she might as well stick around and "play house" 'cause misery loves company? In that moment you could see his words hurt her, see the hope drain from Kate's face before she caught herself. Well, we all know Kate doesn't do taco night and living out your life in a make believe house in a make believe village would be no more satisfying to her than the cherade that was her marriage to Kevin.

Sawyer does love Kate, but in a lustful way for the most part. And two thirds of their sexual encounters have been pity sex and jealousy sex. I don't think theirs is a healthy relationship at the moment. But, Kate is also a lustful woman (nothing wrong with that) and does have feelings for Sawyer. She is a commited person who sees things through and would IMO try to make it work with him .......in a relationship that was moving forward. And that is why she won't ultimately stay. She wants to go back (wouldn't move to the caves, tried to create a spot for herself on the raft) and will go back on her own if she has to, because she believes she can clear her name and it would appear that she is going to get the opportunity to do just that. I also think that while Sawyer plays on her fears, Jack gives her the courage to take that risk.

Does she choose to stay, or is she their prisoner? Neither I think. I believe that off-screen Sayid had a plan he shared with Kate going in. They don't blindly believe at this point that the "freighter 4" are necessarily trustworthy. Since they've stated their principle mission is to "capture" Ben, Sayid will use Charlotte to earn a trip to the freighter and find out what he can while Kate will attempt to learn from Ben who these new people are and what their business is with the island. Locke apparently agrees (with the first part) and follows through with the prisoner exchange (Miles for Charlotte).

Sawyer and Locke are leary of rescue while Kate actively wants to leave. We may find out that the previewed future skex might just be the biggest con to date - a means of emotionally disarming Sawyer so she can get access to Ben. She's gone to bed with him for lesser reasons in the past and she acted in a similar fashion to get into a bank's safe deposit box for the toy airplane. Meanwhile, Jack probably wouldn't be as enthusiastic about any plan that could scuttle their rescue and he frankly doesn't give a rat's a ss about Ben's safety either (for good reason), so Sayid conveniently tells him that Kate "chose" to stay behind with Sawyer - easy to see how Jack would believe him. It also pained him to consider that he was being spurned once again. It will no doubt prove to be another setback to the healing that has begun to take place in his relationship with Kate. And the triangle drags on........

They really need to lay the Kate/pregnancy issue to rest. Whether Kate reveals that she's sterile or "him" turns out to be a son, or we see her stash of birth control, we need to know why it's such a non-issue with Kate. Does Sawyer really not know that on-island pregnancy = death? Why wouldn't someone have warned him?

He knows but I think he has the condom stash from the plane. ;)

the scene was so adorable....James was so cute...and it's amazing they finally have a conversation about their future as a couple, because that what they are a couple and they are trying to make it work....
Kate has reason to leave the island and she wants him to go with her, if she is pregnant she needs James to go with her because if she goes to jail, he will be there to take care of their son. but until now James has NO idea what happen with pregnant women, i guess his reaction might be different, if he knows the woman he is deeply in love with have a death sentence because the pregnancy sure he will change his mind and go with her.

I believe she'll never tell James if she's pregnant.

I'm not so sure that Kate willingly stayed behind. Kate could have been left behind as part of Sayid's trade.

She is a commited person who sees things through and would IMO try to make it work with him........
I think ex-husband Kevin might disagree.

...she believes she can clear her name and it would appear that she is going to get the opportunity to do just that. I also think that while Sawyer plays on her fears, Jack gives her the courage to take that risk.
How can she clear her name? She murdered her father. He may have been horrid, but she wasn't being threatened in any way & he was passed out drunk. And I honestly don't believe that Sawyer was 'playing on her fears,' he was simply stating the true situation. I've wondered for quite awhile & many people in diff. threads are commenting on Kate's seeming lack of forethought re: her return to civilization. I feel certain that when Sawyer was talking to her about staying and making his offer he was being completely guileless (yes, one of the few times)...opening himself up and risking rejection.

...And the triangle drags on........
And I imagine here is something we can all agree on -- pleeease, no more triangle!!!

I believe she'll never tell James if she's pregnant.
i think so too...or she will lie to him

and i don't think Kate wants to live a fake life like she did when she was Monica...she can't live in a lie...and seems like she is not in one in the FF...
she has a new life and she is doing on her own without any man , because she doesn't need to be with one who doesn't care or understand her.
that's why she is so scare to "play house" with James...but if they are gonna try it has to be off the island...

Re: Sawyer & Kate playing house!

In the words of the famous American Philosopher Paris Hilton..."that's hot."

I really want Kate to PUNCH SAWYER RIGHT IN THE KISSER! POW!


Do I even want to know why you have a link to a "save Kate" petition in your signature?? Is this some kind of spoiler????? :mad:

How can she clear her name? Judging by last year's season finale she looks like she accomplished just that. Whether its by a jury, circumstance, or intervention I can't say, but most prisoners aren't driving Volvos.

FYI - Sawyer is fully aware that women who become pregnant on the island die in childbirth - Kate point blank told him AND told him to consider the possibility that she may be pregnant. His response....."then let's hope you're not". Aw, that James, he's just so cute, isn't he? Such a romantic guy! :kiss:

Judging by last year's season finale she looks like she accomplished just that. Whether its by a jury, circumstance, or intervention I can't say, but most prisoners aren't driving Volvos.

FYI - Sawyer is fully aware that women who become pregnant on the island die in childbirth - Kate point blank told him AND told him to consider the possibility that she may be pregnant. His response....."then let's hope you're not". Aw, that James, he's just so cute, isn't he? Such a romantic guy! :kiss:

Actually, the women don't die in childbirth--they die before the end of the second trimester. I really don't recall Kate specifically telling Sawyer that women who conceive on the island die. This is their entire conversation from TTLG:

[In the jungle, the group have stopped to collect some water from a stream. Rose and Sun share anxious looks. Kate goes to speak with Sawyer]

KATE: Something's wrong.

SAWYER: Lots of things are wrong, Kate.

KATE: Jin, Bernard and Sayid, they should have caught up to us by now. I wanna go back to make sure they're all right.

SAWYER: Course you do.

KATE: What's that supposed to mean?

SAWYER: It means, Kate, there's always someone to go back for.

KATE: What's the matter with you?

SAWYER: Nothing.

KATE: [Sarcastically] Nothing?

SAWYER: I'm fine.

KATE: Why don't you just tell me what happened?

[Sawyer pauses, and Kate splashes him with water from the stream]

SAWYER: What you do that for?

KATE: To wake you up. Ever since you got that tape from Locke its like you've been sleepwalking. You don't care about our friends, fine, but its like you don't care about anything anymore. And since when did you start calling me Kate?

[Sawyer starts to go]

KATE: You know. They sent Juliet to check out Sun, but she was there to check and see if I'm pregnant too.

SAWYER: Well let's hope you're not.

This is the discussion from The Man Behind the Curtain, including Juliet's tape:

SAWYER: Good person, huh? You basing that on what? Wouldn't involve her taking you to one of their medical stations would it now, Mrs. Kwon.

SUN: How...?

[Sawyer plays the tape]

JULIET: Kwon is pregnant, the foetus is healthy and was conceived on-Island with her husband, he was sterile before they got here.

JIN: [Speaks Korean].

JULIET: I'm still working on getting samples from the other women, I should have Austen's soon. I'll report back when I know more.

JACK: Where'd you get that?

[The whole camp turn to see Jack and Juliet approach]

SAYID: Where have you been, Jack?

JACK: I asked you where you got it.

SAWYER: You really think you're in a position to be asking us questions?

JULIET: Turn the tape over.

SAWYER: Stay out of it.

JULIET: You wanna burn me at the stake, here I am, but first turn the tape over, press play.

[Sawyer does so, and the camp listen to another recording, this time by Ben]

BEN: Juliet, it's Ben. I'm sending three teams to extract Kwon the night after tomorrow. We won't have time to run Austen's sample, so if you determine that she or anyone else is pregnant, mark their tents and we'll take them too. Good luck.

JULIET: [To Sun] The night I saw your baby on the ultrasound, I told Jack what they were making me do.

SAYID: Why didn't you tell us?

JACK: Because I hadn't decided what to do about it yet.

SAYID: Yet.

JACK: I think we've got some catching up to do.

Sawyer wasn't present for the discussions of this issue in either One of Us or DOC. Could you tell me in which episode Kate tells Sawyer about this? I just don't recall.

It's never been made clear that Sawyer knows that women who conceive on the island die. All he may know is that Claire and Rousseau managed to have babies safely, and that there are doctors and medical facilities on the island. And if Kate were pregnant, and they returned to the States, she'd go to jail and have the child taken from her immediately anyway. If Sawyer doesn't know that pregnancy=death on the island, he might actually think that Kate and any possible child would fare better on the island.
That at least clears up the inconsistency in Sawyer's attitude. Well if Kate hadn't told Sawyer that pregnant women die, she sure should have earlier, and there's absolutely no reason for her to keep silent about it in this situation.

Why stay? There's always the possibility that she loves him. Well, to paraphrase Jack, at least she wouldn't have to be in love for very long. ;)

I thought it was a wonderfully well done scene, calling to mind both their last conversation in Born to Run and that conversation in I Do when Kate tries to get Sawyer to flee the cages. It was what we almost never see in Lost--characters really talking to each other, explaining what they've been doing and why. I found it very moving, and Sawyer's last line in particular. Except for explaining that little factoid that pregnant women die... I would think it would be a rather important topic of discussion in their relationship.
But Sawyer's speech was indeed a mirror of their conversation in Born to Run where he told her he didn't have anything worth staying for...this time it's turned on its head and he says he doesn't have anything worth going back for. I guess Sawyer's done some thinking on the way to Otherville and liked the little kitchens too. :rolleyes:

I think Kate was thinking of her own marriage when she said "How long can we play house?" She knows she'll crack in that sort of situation, and she is well aware of the cracks in their relationship as well, with or without domesticity.

And the promo for next week has Sawyer telling her he’ll keep her safe and Kate swooning. Now, why does strong, independent Kate need Sawyer to keep her safe? And why would that be a turn-on for her? I’ve been told time and time again that the best part of the Skate romance is that he respects her need for independence and doesn’t treat her as a little woman who needs protecting. This sounds like it’s getting to be Stepford Island, what with playing house and the big strong man keeping her safe.

Judging by last year's season finale she looks like she accomplished just that. Whether its by a jury, circumstance, or intervention I can't say, but most prisoners aren't driving Volvos.
Yes, it's very handy that we have FFs to help us, but Kate, et.al. aren't so lucky. She doesn't know that she'll be driving a Volvo. She has no idea that there's a Golden Ticket or any of the other stuff that we've had glimses of. So you can't use that reasoning for her decisions.

FYI - Sawyer is fully aware that women who become pregnant on the island die in childbirth - Kate point blank told him AND told him to consider the possibility that she may be pregnant. His response....."then let's hope you're not". Aw, that James, he's just so cute, isn't he? Such a romantic guy! :kiss:
So...he's supposed to hope she IS pregnant and therefore probably going to die? Like, "Gee, honey, I know you're probably going to die and that you were just using me to try to make Jack jealous, but let's cross our fingers!" Seems to me you have it in for him any way he turns.

And the promo for next week has Sawyer telling her he’ll keep her safe and Kate swooning. Now, why does strong, independent Kate need Sawyer to keep her safe? And why would that be a turn-on for her? I’ve been told time and time again that the best part of the Skate romance is that he respects her need for independence and doesn’t treat her as a little woman who needs protecting. This sounds like it’s getting to be Stepford Island, what with playing house and the big strong man keeping her safe.

Wait until you see the episode or another promo. He's saying that he will protect her from Locke. And there's a good reason he says it.

Wow, Sawyer has come a long way from the con with a death wish we met at the beginning of the series. He no longer wants to die, and he's not pushing people away - he's actually putting his heart on his sleeve and asking the woman he loves to stay - as someone else pointed out, its almost tantamount to a marriage proposal. A little over three seasons to bring him here, and it has been a great journey to watch. Thank you, PTB.

And as for Kate, we've seen her fight her compulsion to run because of her feelings for Sawyer - she's made a lot of character growth (because of Sawyer's acceptance of her for who she is, I think), but I don't think she's ready just yet. The idea that they "play house" most likely, like someone else stated, reminds her of what happened with Kevin. She may want it, but she's scared she won't be able to do it. But guess what? She's decided to try. She is no one's prisoner, as lostnthesoutheast pointed out, she has a gun of her own, and Sayid said she decided to stay. Some people want to try and read more into this, but how much clearer can TPTB say it?

People keep pointing out Kate doesn't seem sure, and I agree, but that's to be expected when the series is only half over - the triangle will go the distance, so don't expect surety of anything on either side. And the fact that Kate and Sawyer are going to "break up" soon, knowing the triangle is guaranteed to continue, should be a big flashing neon sign that things are FAR from over for our two favorite convicts.



It's never been made clear that Sawyer knows that women who conceive on the island die. All he may know is that Claire and Rousseau managed to have babies safely, and that there are doctors and medical facilities on the island. . . .If Sawyer doesn't know that pregnancy=death on the island, he might actually think that Kate and any possible child would fare better on the island.Well said - she's likely to be in jail for a long, long time, and her child, if she's pregnant, would grow up without her.


Re: Sawyer & Kate playing house!

In the words of the famous American Philosopher Paris Hilton..."that's hot.":24: A dose of humor, very much welcome. Thanks, Lost Lenny. :laughing:


Yes, it's very handy that we have FFs to help us, but Kate, et.al. aren't so lucky. She doesn't know that she'll be driving a Volvo. She has no idea that there's a Golden Ticket or any of the other stuff that we've had glimses of. So you can't use that reasoning for her decisions.That's right. How is she to know some big-time, high-powered person and/or corporation is going to step in and offer her what she's been running for all these years?


So...he's supposed to hope she IS pregnant and therefore probably going to die? Like, "Gee, honey, I know you're probably going to die and that you were just using me to try to make Jack jealous, but let's cross our fingers!" Seems to me you have it in for him any way he turns.Point well made. :clapping:

The scene was beautiful and sweet it make me cry!

Me too!

But it's the same story all over again, sawyer is cute and shows her he loves her and she's just there, ready to hurt him again.
We are in season 4 and she's playing both sides again, this is really annoying now.

That at least clears up the inconsistency in Sawyer's attitude. Well if Kate hadn't told Sawyer that pregnant women die, she sure should have earlier, and there's absolutely no reason for her to keep silent about it in this situation.

Sun hasn't told Jin yet either, as far as we know.

And the promo for next week has Sawyer telling her he’ll keep her safe and Kate swooning. Now, why does strong, independent Kate need Sawyer to keep her safe? And why would that be a turn-on for her? I’ve been told time and time again that the best part of the Skate romance is that he respects her need for independence and doesn’t treat her as a little woman who needs protecting. This sounds like it’s getting to be Stepford Island, what with playing house and the big strong man keeping her safe.

Even a strong and independent woman will have moments when she needs a little reassurance, comfort, or just old-fashioned bucking up. In inviting her to "play house" with him, I don't see Sawyer as also offering her an apron and a crinoline, or asking her to not be the woman we already know he loves.

Judging by last year's season finale she looks like she accomplished just that. Whether its by a jury, circumstance, or intervention I can't say, but most prisoners aren't driving Volvos.

FYI - Sawyer is fully aware that women who become pregnant on the island die in childbirth - Kate point blank told him AND told him to consider the possibility that she may be pregnant. His response....."then let's hope you're not". Aw, that James, he's just so cute, isn't he? Such a romantic guy! :kiss:
No, Kate did NOT tell Sawyer that pregnant women die on the island, "point blank" or any other way. And the tape he had only referred to the Others being interested in kidnapping the pregnant women. If you're going to take a sarcastic tone - in what are supposedly your very first posts on a new forum, no less - it would help to have your facts straight.

She wants to go back (wouldn't move to the caves, tried to create a spot for herself on the raft) and will go back on her own if she has to, because she believes she can clear her name and it would appear that she is going to get the opportunity to do just that. I also think that while Sawyer plays on her fears, Jack gives her the courage to take that risk.

As pointed out by an earlier poster, the fact that Kate appears to be a free woman in the S3 finale implies absolutely no explanation of how that came about, much less does it speak to her motives for leaving the island some years before. Whatever Kate's reasons for wanting to go back, I don't think "clearing her name" has anything to do with it. If she wanted that, she wouldn't have been running half way across the world to evade the Marshall in the first place. What you call Sawyer playing on her fears, I'd call a reality check. And you'll have to point me in the direction of the scene in which Jack "gives her the courage to take that risk". I recall him teaching her a trick about dealing with momentary terror, but I have no memory of the scene you seem to be referring to.

But it's the same story all over again, sawyer is cute and shows her he loves her and she's just there, ready to hurt him again.
We are in season 4 and she's playing both sides again, this is really annoying now.

I agree that it's very, very annoying, Kate's continued playing of both sides of the Jack/Sawyer coin...it's beyond tired, beyond trite, especially since Sawyer and Kate have such a vastly more compelling relationship (IMO). However, I don't think she's "ready to hurt" Sawyer. It's been illustrated over and over again that she loves him, even though a part of her is still struggling against that fact. She's always had a fixation on pleasing Jack, being in his good graces, and unfortunately the writers have chosen to keep her mired in that. She admires the "good" man in Jack, and so she seeks his approval at every turn. Sawyer is the bad boy that she never wanted to fall for, but despite it all, she has. Why else would she choose to stay behind with him? (We all saw her face when Sawyer decided to go with Locke...she was absolutely heartbroken, but as she told him, she went with Jack because she believes he can get them off the Island.) Why else would she continue to have sex with Sawyer, even after finding out that pregnant women die on the Island? Why would she seek his company when she needed an emotional connection over her "jealousy" of seeing Juliet usurp her place at Jack's side? They're a complex couple, no doubt, but a helluva lot of fun to watch!

I agree that it's very, very annoying, Kate's continued playing of both sides of the Jack/Sawyer coin...it's beyond tired, beyond trite, especially since Sawyer and Kate have such a vastly more compelling relationship (IMO). However, I don't think she's "ready to hurt" Sawyer. It's been illustrated over and over again that she loves him, even though a part of her is still struggling against that fact. She's always had a fixation on pleasing Jack, being in his good graces, and unfortunately the writers have chosen to keep her mired in that. She admires the "good" man in Jack, and so she seeks his approval at every turn. Sawyer is the bad boy that she never wanted to fall for, but despite it all, she has. Why else would she choose to stay behind with him? (We all saw her face when Sawyer decided to go with Locke...she was absolutely heartbroken, but as she told him, she went with Jack because she believes he can get them off the Island.) Why else would she continue to have sex with Sawyer, even after finding out that pregnant women die on the Island? Why would she seek his company when she needed an emotional connection over her "jealousy" of seeing Juliet usurp her place at Jack's side? They're a complex couple, no doubt, but a helluva lot of fun to watch!

I think you have to look at it from Kate's POV to get a bead on her attitude with Sawyer in that scene. I think they were very close after she got back from rescuing Jack, but things changed for reasons we know but she doesn't. One minute, everything was fine with them and she was leaving his bed in The Brig because she was restless and couldn't sleep, and the next thing she knows, he's turned into a guy who is pushing her away and won't even talk to her. No explanation, despite her attempts to get one. He flat out says he want to go back to help the guys at the beach, but not with her. Then he no sooner gets back from that than he's leaving again with Locke, this time maybe forever and without even a "Goodbye and good luck." So I wouldn't be surprised if she were feeling she'd been dumped without even an explanation, and I can see her being pretty ticked off at him about all that, and with good reason. Now he wants her to pass up a chance to get off this crazy and dangerous island? Timing wise, I think it's a bit of a tough sell for Sawyer right at this moment because he's hurt her by shutting her out. OTOH, she didn't go back to camp Jack so I'm very curious to see what comes next for Kate and Sawyer.

FYI ....James doesn't know what happen to pregnant women on the island no even Jin does...only Juliet Jack kate and Sun know what happen to them...I don't see Kate telling him about it, and if he finds out it's gonna be to late she leaves the island and he stays behind, or someone will tell him...Juliet cuz she is the only one on the island who knows that

Also, I don't think she stayed as a prisoner, or that she stayed to play house - I think Sayid left without telling her, and as far as she knows, he's still around. This has occurred to me as well.

Furthermore (while we're on the topic), I think the "him" in the FF is her son. If Sawyer knew she was pregnant, he wouldn't let her stay, IMO. I think Sawyer gets stuck on the island but forces her to leave once they confirm she's pregnant.
I have also been thinking this. Even if he doesn't know YET that pregnant women die, he will. (I do think that he might have learned "off camera", just judging by the way he says "let's hope you're note" to Kate re: the possibility of her being pregnant.
The only thing that's holding me back from REALLY thinking that the "him" in the FF is her son is that she says "he'll be wondering where I am" paraphrase. I'm not sure a real young kid, possibly a baby (depending on how far in the future the FF is) would be left alone.....


Instead, however, I really wanted to point something out about this scene which many people seemed to miss. Kate was never Sawyer's prisoner here, for the simple fact that she was the one with the gun!


Exactly. She wasn't prisoner. They are basically having a heated conversation, and she could have left or fought him, etc. forced him to let her leave. Yes, she ratted him out to Sayid, but Kate thinks on impulse and thinks first about the "mission" at hand. Her first reaction is to make sure she alerts Sayid. As far as she knows, these two sides of Losties are now fighting factions, and she has to do what she can for her "side." Sure, she switches sides.... but when it comes right down to it, to me, it's really just Locke v. Jack, not half Losties v. half Losties. You know what I mean?

Do I even want to know why you have a link to a "save Kate" petition in your signature?? Is this some kind of spoiler????? :mad:

Don't worry, AK. Adam has had that petition going since like since season 2, maybe earlier. He's a bit overly emotional about losing Kate, even though there has never been any indication that we are ever losing her.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.
Yeah, yeah, we get it. Jack's an utter saint with a heart so true. Sawyer is lower than dirt.

Yeah, yeah, we get it. Jack's an utter saint with a heart so true. Sawyer is lower than dirt.

I never said that. Jack is definitely not a saint (perfect men are boring) and I actually happen to dig Sawyer. It's just that I think Jack is better for Kate.

Although I'm basically over Kate, no matter who she ends up with.

Sorry for the sarcasm. I'm just so tired of reading strongly biased comments and took it out on you. Not fair of me! As for being "over Kate" I hear that!

Again, sorry for my rudeness. I'll behave. :redface:

Sorry for the sarcasm. I'm just so tired of reading strongly biased comments and took it out on you. Not fair of me! As for being "over Kate" I hear that!

Again, sorry for my rudeness. I'll behave. :redface:

No problem. If we didn't bicker, we wouldn't be LOST die-hards. ;)

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.


I flat out disagree. And have no idea how the above comparison is meant to signify real love. But anyway, I'll attempt to explain. :)

As far as I was concerned it was completely a bad time for Jack to tell Kate that he loved her, when she'd just had a fight with Sawyer and was vulnerable, further muddying the issue. He could have said 'Because he loves you.' So lets not give Jack the noble card there. He knows without a shadow of a doubt that Sawyer loves Kate (WKD). And judging by the fact he saw her post-coital with him (I Do), and probably was aware of them having repeated tent meetings at the beach camp, I should think he assumes she's in love with Sawyer. Even though he defended Sawyer and apparently wasn't expecting Kate to jump into his arms (which she didn't by the way, what's stopping her?), it still was messing with Kate's emotions IMO.

Sawyer has defended Jack's judgment in I Do, and has initiated hugging him in front of everyone to welcome him back in OOU. His efforts to make peace with jack have often gone unsung, like in Exodus when he gifted him with his father's love. And besides there haven't been many times when Kate's had enough balls to complain about how Jack treats her to anyone else so it's not like there's been an opportunity for Sawyer to be all "Hey, Freckles, cut Jack some slack"

Sawyer wasn't personally holding Kate prisoner no matter how you spin it. She had the gun, she was the invader, the intruder trying to steal what the other team had. She'd gotten caught and was being looked after by the cushiest 'jailer' you could find on the island, the man who is so in love with he'd rather take a bullet to the brain than let her be harmed. Contrast that with the last time she was in Otherville...no wonder she was jumpy, her reunion with Jack led her to being imprisoned where Sayid and Ben were kept this time, and with handcuffs. So excuse me if I don't see Kate as being in any bad position in that scene. Sawyer's joke is even indication of how silly it is for her to be concerned.

Sawyer is offering commitment. He wants to try to be together as a long term couple. This is a huge breakthrough for the king of casual and deceitful relationships. What more does this guy have to do to prove that he's in all the way? He makes some really valid points and gives Kate a much needed reality check, but at the same time he only asks, he doesn't demand or order her to listen to him and go with his plan. As always, Sawyer leaves the ball in Kate's court. I for one was moved by how sweet and honest that scene was between the both of them.

Unfortunately Kate is hell bent on rescue for some reason, maybe she IS pregnant that would give her a valid reason to risk life in prison. We do know she gets off the island so presumably the playing house scenario is a wash.

I don't expect either one of them to act perfectly towards one another. This is Sawyer and Kate we are talking about. They both challenge each other, and aren't always on the same page (though they do seem to work in synch when it's something dangerous or tricky to overcome). They are both very flawed individuals with defense mechanisms they tend to fall back on. But for me it just makes it all that more satisfying when they do have their moments of connection and honesty - like in this scene. Even if they find they disagree. It was just great to see them actually talking openly about what they wanted or feared or didn't understand about the other person. It seems so clear (to me) that of course it's going to take so much work for them to stay together, but they both really really want it to work.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.
Since when Kate is Sawyer's prisoner. Watch the scene again, she has a gun, not him. :undecide:
Sawyer is not the definition of love but jack is? :eek2:
He was ready to die for her in "I do" and now he's asking her to live with him. He has more balls than Jack and Kate. He doesn't act like a 12 years old at least.

I really think you should stop thinking about who is better for Kate. She's not a prize. She's annoying. And both Jack and Sawyer deserves better than her. And I hope one day one of them will say that she's not good enough for them :)
It was ridiculous last season and it's going to be worse this season I presume.
This is not even interesting, it's like watching a very long and boring tennis game. ZZZzzz

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.
and kate's behaviour is the definition of what? :biggrin:

FYI ....James doesn't know what happen to pregnant women on the island no even Jin does...only Juliet Jack kate and Sun know what happen to them...I don't see Kate telling him about it, and if he finds out it's gonna be to late she leaves the island and he stays behind, or someone will tell him...Juliet cuz she is the only one on the island who knows that

I can't IMAGINE any of the Lostaways still being out of the loop on this vital information.

It's true that our merry little band often acts irrationally, but it would be simply inhuman not to share that bombshell with the group immediately--particularly with anyone who was showing signs of having a sex life. (If nothing else, the pregnancy=death thing has enormous gossip value, and gossip is surely the major form of entertainment here.)

Surely, surely, the doctor would have warned everyone. Even if the doctor was Jack.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.

Thank you for that short treatise on the perfect purity of Jack's love. I might point out, however, that some people might view a scene where a man witnesses a woman having a fight with her boyfriend, says a comforting word about said assy boyfriend, but but then slips in the fact that oh, by-the-way I love you too, as actually being kind of skeevy. The appropriate noble hero sentence there would have been "because he loves you."

As for your second point...I'll take it seriously since you seem to.

1. Kate is the one with a gun in her hands throughout the scene. Not prisonerish.

2. Threatening words or gestures from Sawyer in the scene = 0. Not jailerish.

3. Crux of the scene = a conversation about the future, about how each of them sees his/her future... the prospects for their individual lives off the island, the prospects for their relationship if they stay on the island together. They do have a relationship, and talking about that has nothing to do with Jack. It's not like Sawyer is trying to influence Jack's girlfriend or anything... because, you know, that would be skeevy.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.

Sawyer has never needed to defend Jack. Kate blindly puts Jack on a pedestal and refuses to recognize his sometimes appalling behaviour to her, while at the same time impuning Sawyer's actions when they are nothing but noble. For example, in The Hunting Party, Jack refuses to let Kate come on the mission to find Michael. His reasons for making her stay behind are mean and spiteful. Does Kate complain about his behaviour to Sawyer? No. Instead, at the end of the episode, she chases after Jack to apologize for supposedly screwing up a mission that was never going to succeed in the first place. In Through the Looking Glass, Sawyer tells Kate that he doesn't want her to go back to the beach with him to save Jin, Bernard and Sayid. He wants her to stay behind because he cherishes her and wants to protect her. Yet she badmouths him to Jack. No matter what Sawyer does, his actions are questioned. And no matter what Jack does, his are excused. So why would Sawyer ever have to defend him?

As for Jack being the model of real love: The last time he had a chance to get off the island, he was going to leave without Kate. Sawyer is giving Kate a choice. He doesn't trust the Freighter People. He knows that he has no life to go back to in the real world. He believes that she doesn't, either. Having the marshal on her tail again and the threat of imprisonment hanging over her head; what kind of life is that? He is taking a huge risk in showing her his love and asking her to stay with him. I don't see it as a selfish move. I see it as the action of a man in love, who wants to protect his lover from the outside world. Sawyer would never force Kate to do anything. He's not that kind of man.

Your assertion that Sawyer is holding Kate prisoner is so laughable that I can't seriously address it.

Guys, no shipper warring. C'mon. I started this thread stating that I'm unabashed Skater, but we made it through 7 pages without bickering. I understand both sides of the issue, but the topic in here is a possibility of a future with Kate and Sawyer, what the scene in question made us feel, etc.
Let's keep it at that or I'm going to close my own thread.

I'd like to point out an interesting juxtaposition here...

In TTLG, Jack tells Kate that he loves her -- without any expectations or strings attached -- and even defends Sawyer because he thought it was what Kate would want him to do.

In TE, Sawyer essentially holds Kate prisoner, and never once has he defended Jack to Kate. Plus, he's doing what he wants (going with Locke) and is trying to convince her to follow him, in spite of the fact that her instinct was to go with Jack toward rescue.

Jack's behavior is the definition of real love. Sawyer's? Not so much.

going back to the beach was dangerous James and Jack knew it, and Jack sticked up for James...well that's what i saw...

In TE WHAT????????? Sawyer holds Kate prisoner??? who has the gun?????? Oh Kate... did James lock the door??? Ehh nop and she made clear that the only reason she went with Jack is because he can get them off the island Period. why she needs to get off the island..few reasons i believe !!!!
and if i watch the episode on ABC yeah i did...James asks her to move in with him...to play house how adorable is that...and at least try...

As far as I was concerned it was completely a bad time for Jack to tell Kate that he loved her, when she'd just had a fight with Sawyer and was vulnerable, further muddying the issue. He could have said 'Because he loves you.' So lets not give Jack the noble card there.
Zoriah, I thought everything you posted was well said. But the above portion particularly stood out to me because I remember arguing about that same incident last season to no avail. I thought I was the only one who considered Jack's declaration extremely & selfishly ill-timed. But here you are and saying it so well. Thank you! (And I know I shouldn't be talking about this because it's last season, but I just couldnt' help it!)

Unabashed Skater here.

Yay! Thoughts???

This was surprising twist for me. Really surprising. I mean, she was on Jack's side. But now Jacket is on one side, and Skate is on another. Fine with me!


I can see why she would stay. I mean she was obviously flirting with Jack and instead of responding he suggests that she go with Sayid to the Barracks. She asks about being in possible danger with Locke. Jack says that Sawyer wont let Locke do any harm to her. Jack exploited Sawyer's feelings for Kate as a reason to send her to the other group to spy. Jack is not even caring for Kate at this point he just wants to get off of the Island and playing human chess with the group.

Thank you for that short treatise on the perfect purity of Jack's love. I might point out, however, that some people might view a scene where a man witnesses a woman having a fight with her boyfriend, says a comforting word about said assy boyfriend, but but then slips in the fact that oh, by-the-way I love you too, as actually being kind of skeevy. The appropriate noble hero sentence there would have been "because he loves you."
Well, too bad the writers' strike ended and fans couldn't begin writing scripts, huh? ;)

It was pretty clear that Jack's ILY was delivered without any strings attached, without any expectation or request for reciprocation. Just a chance to express one's feelings before it's too late. Kind of like Kate sleeping with Sawyer the night before his supposed execution - to express her feelings before it was too late. And Jack hasn't pulled a move on Kate in the time since that line - to the contrary, he reminded her that she had a boyfriend on the other side of the island.

You know what's skeevy (i.e. disgusting or sleazy)? Seducing women and stealing their life savings. Playing on the emotions of a friend and woman you've been trying to seduce, and using her for a power play con. Recruiting another friend to attack an innocent woman to expedite that con. Then gloating about it when she finds out.

Sawyer's come a long way since then, in terms of ceasing to betray his fellow survivors, and I think his appeal to Kate was heartfelt but once again defeatist and looking out for number one. He appears to have fallen for Ben's mind game and believes there is no future for him back in the world, so why bother.

I thought the whole scene was nicely acted, except for the one line, "How long, Sawyer? How long do you think we can play house?" That line was the only one that didn't work for me.

Regarding the "skeevy" move...Im no shipper, but I'd like to see Jack and Kate together in the end. Sawyer will make the ultimate sacrifice along the way, ya know? Maybe save her life, or Jack's (who knows), but he's a goner.

But anyways, regarding the skeevy move, I've always felt that Jack was making his move there, with the 'I love you' line. He was letting his feelings be known. Sure, its skeevy, but then again Ben screwed up Jack's chances when he tossed the other two in cages for convenient cage-sex. Kate and Jack were separated, and well, shucks, thats just unfair!:biggrin: Basically, all's fair in love and war. ;)

It was pretty clear that Jack's ILY was delivered without any strings attached, without any expectation or request for reciprocation. Just a chance to express one's feelings before it's too late. Kind of like Kate sleeping with Sawyer the night before his supposed execution - to express her feelings before it was too late. And Jack hasn't pulled a move on Kate in the time since that line - to the contrary, he reminded her that she had a boyfriend on the other side of the island.

That's one way to read it, but I'm still going with those who think that Jack's "I love you" was poorly timed and weird in context. The very point you make about there being "no request for reciproccation" should, I think, be amended by saying that there was no opportunity for reciprocation. While I do believe that Jack has feelings for Kate, I don't believe that he has any real intention (or even desire, perhaps) of being in a relationship with her; he's had opportunity enough to make something happen but he continually keeps her at arm's length instead, to the point of essentially telling her she should go be with her boyfriend when she flirts with him. I think that Jack chose that moment to put his cards on the table because he knew that nothing could come to a head at that point by him saying that. He gets the relief of getting it off his chest without the stress of actually, you know, having to do something -- and he also has effectively reeled her back in as close as he's going to let her get by reexciting her curiosity about his feelings just when she's getting in deep with someone who actually is available to her on an emotional level.

He [Sawyer] appears to have fallen for Ben's mind game and believes there is no future for him back in the world, so why bother.Well, Sawyer might be a bit pessimistic when he says that there's nothing for him to go back to in the so-called "real" world, but from the flashforwards we've seen so far, it certainly seems that he's not totally unjustified in fearing that if he leaves the island, his life will just be more of the same, which to be sure wasn't very great or something that he's proud of. We've seen in Jack, Hurley, and Sayid's flashforwards that they all essentially return to their old ways: Jack is a drunk with depression and Daddy issues again, Hurley is teetering on the edge of sanity again, and Sayid is working as an assasain, again making violence his profession. Any progress they made away from those paths on the island seems to have been all for naught. Sawyer is absolutely right if he's able to recognize that life on the island has give them all a clean slate and that it will be all too easy to fall back into their old ways if they leave. Not to mention that it's just plain common sense to assume that Kate will be heading to jail if she leaves the island. I really don't understand why she wants to leave unless she does know that's she's pregnant, especially since she's been so anti-rescue in the past.

Well, too bad the writers' strike ended and fans couldn't begin writing scripts, huh? ;)

It was pretty clear that Jack's ILY was delivered without any strings attached, without any expectation or request for reciprocation. Just a chance to express one's feelings before it's too late. Kind of like Kate sleeping with Sawyer the night before his supposed execution - to express her feelings before it was too late. And Jack hasn't pulled a move on Kate in the time since that line - to the contrary, he reminded her that she had a boyfriend on the other side of the island.
I agree Jack's BILY had no strings attached or expectations. However, that doesn't make it any less inappropriate IMO. Remove Jack and Kate from the equation and make it about three other people, and perhaps you'll see my point.
You know what's skeevy (i.e. disgusting or sleazy)? Seducing women and stealing their life savings. Playing on the emotions of a friend and woman you've been trying to seduce, and using her for a power play con. Recruiting another friend to attack an innocent woman to expedite that con. Then gloating about it when she finds out.
Agreed. Sawyer hated himself for what he was, and with good reason. He doesn't want to go back to being a grifter or to the kind of life he lived before, which indicates much progress has been made. I hope he'll continue to move in a positive direction. On the other side, we've yet to see if Jack has left behind his obsessive need to stalk or intimidate the women he's romantically involved with. The fact that Kate refused to take his calls any more in the S3 finale did give me a little cause for concern, but I'm hoping that he too will have progressed toward being a better person in hisrelationships with women in the future.
Sawyer's come a long way since then, in terms of ceasing to betray his fellow survivors, and I think his appeal to Kate was heartfelt but once again defeatist and looking out for number one. He appears to have fallen for Ben's mind game and believes there is no future for him back in the world, so why bother.
Other than the Great Gun Caper, I'm blanking on any other occasion that could be interpreted as betraying his fellow survivors, so I'll move on to your next point. Has he fallen for Ben's mind game? Possibly. He does have a tendency sometimes to be defeatest, and Ben played on his insecurities about not being well-educated or equipped to make a place for himself on the right side of the law. I think he's gotten comfortable with having friends and helping to defend them, so he can be OK with the person he's being now - like he doesn't have to hate himself every minute of every day. Maybe he's afraid he'll lose that if he goes back.

As for his appeal to Kate, I agree it was heartfelt but I don't think he's was just looking out for #1. Where he might be defeatest, Kate tends to be impulsive and to deal in fantasy instead of cold hard facts. (Marrying a policeman? Hardly realistic.) So I think the questions Sawyer asked her about what she was hoping to find back home were a much-needed reality check. She was under arrest when they crashed, and for some heavy charges. So even if they manage to slip in under the radar and she's not apprehended upon arrival back home, she'd always be looking over her shoulder worrying in case someone recognized her. The way she reacted to his questions, it looked as if she hadn't even given this any thought. Kate tends to block out things she finds unpleasant to think about. And when that fails, she blows them up.

JMO, of course.

He appears to have fallen for Ben's mind game and believes there is no future for him back in the world, so why bother.
Other people have replied to diff. aspects of your post, & though I agree w/ their comments I won't repeat them here. I just wanted to say that I don't think Sawyer has fallen for Ben's mind game. He's been a wreck ever since he killed Frank Sawyer (can't remember the guy's real name). That's all that he's focused on his whole life. And once the opportunity actually came to him, he didn't want to do it but ended up doing it anyway. He never had any plans beyond that moment. So in his mind he has no reason to go back. I think Ben's observation was painful to him because that's how he really felt, not because it was a mindworm. Sawyer has always been his own worst enemy, & he still is.

As for his appeal to Kate, I agree it was heartfelt but I don't think he's was just looking out for #1. Where he might be defeatest, Kate tends to be impulsive and to deal in fantasy instead of cold hard facts. (Marrying a policeman? Hardly realistic.) So I think the questions Sawyer asked her about what she was hoping to find back home were a much-needed reality check. She was under arrest when they crashed, and for some heavy charges. So even if they manage to slip in under the radar and she's not apprehended upon arrival back home, she'd always be looking over her shoulder worrying in case someone recognized her. The way she reacted to his questions, it looked as if she hadn't even given this any thought. Kate tends to block out things she finds unpleasant to think about. And when that fails, she blows them up.
Re: Kate, exactly! I keep wondering what she imagines life w/ Jack would be like once they're rescued. Does she really think she'd fit in w/ the other surgeons' wives around the pool at the country club? I can't figure out where her mind is at. If she can't do taco night, she certainly isn't going to be able to do cocktail night either.

And, Dezdemona, your last line about Kate, priceless! :laughing:

For one, if she is/gets pregnant..she'll die. I'd leave for that reason alone!

My thoughts exactly! have you all forgotten that Kate and Sawyer slept together more than twice already!! the odd's are - shes pregnant! and we all know that you die if your pregnant and give birth on the island. So that would be my guess for the reason she wants to leave so badly. other than that Sawyer's right, she has nothing to go back for.
unless, this has been a theory of mine for some time now, Sawyer and Kate were together for the first time on the other island (like alkatraz) maybe conception is different there than from the main island, and it wont affect her like the other women who i'm guessing got pregnant on the main island - just a thought.

anyway - good to see them together again :) I loved that scene in Ben's house - good ol' fashioned Skate, just the way i like it :)
100%
Sawyer is offering commitment. He wants to try to be together as a long term couple. This is a huge breakthrough for the king of casual and deceitful relationships. What more does this guy have to do to prove that he's in all the way? He makes some really valid points and gives Kate a much needed reality check, but at the same time he only asks, he doesn't demand or order her to listen to him and go with his plan. As always, Sawyer leaves the ball in Kate's court. I for one was moved by how sweet and honest that scene was between the both of them.

Unfortunately Kate is hell bent on rescue for some reason, maybe she IS pregnant that would give her a valid reason to risk life in prison. We do know she gets off the island so presumably the playing house scenario is a wash.

I don't expect either one of them to act perfectly towards one another. This is Sawyer and Kate we are talking about. They both challenge each other, and aren't always on the same page (though they do seem to work in synch when it's something dangerous or tricky to overcome). They are both very flawed individuals with defense mechanisms they tend to fall back on. But for me it just makes it all that more satisfying when they do have their moments of connection and honesty - like in this scene. Even if they find they disagree. It was just great to see them actually talking openly about what they wanted or feared or didn't understand about the other person. It seems so clear (to me) that of course it's going to take so much work for them to stay together, but they both really really want it to work.

couldn't have put it better myself!!

At some point in everyone's life their comes a time to account for what you did with it. Did you waste it, or did you value it? IMO Sawyer's not ready to face the music; by staying on the island he is avoiding any reconcillation of what he's done in his miserable past. He can't move on with his life or a relationship with Kate until he does - he's certainly gotten no peace from murdering the original Sawyer in the brig. I get that he hates himself....but its time for him to change! I am tired of his character wallowing in self hate and self pity.

Kate gives him a reason to want to change, but how can he expect her to love him unconditionally unless he can first love himself? And I hate when he tries to transfer his own insecurities about his future to Kate with the whole "we're just a couple of fugitives, there's nothing waiting for us out there except a pair of handcuffs" thing. Someone called it a reality check...I call it despicable. Kate sees the potential Sawyer has to be a loving, caring, better person, but she still needs him to turn that corner.

Taking their chances in the real world comes with a lot of risk and wouldn't be easy, but Kate is not going to stay put with Sawyer and play house as she so accurately put it. Back in her past she had strong feelings for Kevin, but with each passing day it became increasingly evident to her that she would never find happiness because she was simply playing house with him. Maybe Kate is more justified in her desire to leave the island and Sawyer more justified wanting to stay. Perhaps Kate would fare better in a courtroom the he would. She once told the marshall there were extenuating circumstances or something to that effect and he commented on the plane that she should tell her story to a jury; that maybe they'd believe her. Believe what? Maybe we will find out in her FF.

Kate has bounced between Jack and Sawyer for three seasons. She fights with one and runs to the other. Most recently Sawyer has dissed her on the pregnancy and given her a cold shoulder (yeah, I know, its the self hate thing - see the top of this post). So, again she looks to cozy up to Jack. But Jack firmly, but gently has taken her to task by pointing out the elephant in the room. He loves Kate, but is letting her know that so long as she's sleeping with someone else the flirting is inapropriate. He wants Kate to be certain of where Kate's heart lies. He's made it clear where his own heart lies and has put himself on the sidelines; the contest is between Kate and Sawyer.

Neither of these two guys ever experienced true love in their lives before they crossed paths with Kate. Jack does not try and cling to her, instead he risks everything by letting her go hoping that she will return. And you can see the terrible disappointment on his face when she doesn't immediately come back with Sayid. And with Sawyer you can see the unspoken agony and desperation in his soul when he asks her to stay with him. So, in whose arms will Kate find her true love and redemption? Its been a compelling story line and in my opinion, effectively written.

And I hate when he tries to transfer his own insecurities about his future to Kate with the whole "we're just a couple of fugitives, there's nothing waiting for us out there except a pair of handcuffs" thing. Someone called it a reality check...I call it despicable.
You call it despicable because of your bias against Sawyer and your Kate-love. There wasn't anything despicable about it. Kate's the one on the run from the authorities at this point, not Sawyer.

Most recently Sawyer has dissed her on the pregnancy and given her a cold shoulder (yeah, I know, its the self hate thing - see the top of this post). So, again she looks to cozy up to Jack. But Jack firmly, but gently has taken her to task by pointing out the elephant in the room.

I love (or is it hate?) the adjectives you use above to prove your points. In my mind all it does is underscore your bias...Sawyer disses & gives the cold shoulder, St. Jack firmly & gently corrects her. Please.

So, in whose arms will Kate find her true love and redemption? Its been a compelling story line and in my opinion, effectively written.
I would think her redemption has little to do w/ what man she decides to end up playing house with. You talk about how Sawyer needs to reconcile what he's done in his "miserable past" but not Kate. Why isn't she to be held accountable? As far as I'm concerned she is the least capable of the three of having a healthy relationship, and none of them are in a particularly emotionally healthy state for such a thing. I really think Kate would be a bad deal for either guy...unless she faces her past and her own demons. The girl is a basket case.

I've found the triangle stuff to be neither compelling nor effectively written. There have been many scenes in this story line that seem no better to me that poorly written fan fiction...something some 14-year-old girl would concoct in her journal & her daydreams. If some of it were more interwoven with the more important storylines, then maybe I could see the point. But it never seems that integrated to me. Just stuff tacked on for the shippers, taking time away from the more compelling stories & characters.

She once told the marshall there were extenuating circumstances or something to that effect and he commented on the plane that she should tell her story to a jury; that maybe they'd believe her. Believe what? Maybe we will find out in her FF.
There are extenuating circumstances in everyone's life. Plus, since Kate never lies or manipulates we can believe everything she says. :rolleyes:

Hey, AboutBunnies, sorry I don't spend enough time here to have figured out how you cut and paste the quotes, ***Mod edited*** But a funny thing happened when I tried - I drug the mouse over your "Kate-love" quote, hit right click and the pop up window asked "translate to English?" LOL I was like "yeah" 'cause I really have no idea. If you mean do I think she can do no wrong, show me where I said that. That I hold her character to a different standard? No, I think they're both flawed and need to answer for what they've done. The difference between them is ............ she does! (que the previews). Is it the sole reason she wants to go back home? I don't know, but it certainly becomes a big part of her existance once she gets there. And even though she can't predict what the outcome of her day in court might be she's had to consider the possibility of prison while she considers going back - yet she still chooses rescue. Here's a bit of "Kate -love" for you: I think my little "girlfriend" has a bigger pair than your little "boyfriend"

You appear to be a die hard Sawyer fan...whatever. And I'm obviously "biased" - no , but not a fan of the character (JH is doing a great job). I Love the adjectives you use to prove your points Thanks, thats why I chose them. Sawyer disses and gives the cold shoulder Yes, and your point is??????? Did I miss the part where he sent her flowers and chocolate in the season opener? I've found the triangle stuff to be neither compelling, nor effectively written ***Mod edited***

Sadly, it seems that yet another thread about Kate and Sawyer has somehow been turned into a Jate vs. Skate-/Jater vs. Skater-thread. *sighs* And just like those threads, this thread is closed now...