Someone needs to come to Desmond's defense quick or hold me back before I slug him. He sees a helicopter and is all smiles? "Well, now look at that!" He seems to have forgotten what it cost to get it. I think it was pretty out of character after weeks of anguish trying to save Charlie's life, an experience that caused them to bond pretty closely, that he would just get over it and go off in search of answers about his Penny. He left a relationship in ruins to get here and his emotions don't even seem mixed. I had thought Charlie meant more to him than that and that he might have been somewhat traumatized at witnessing his death but I guess I was wrong. So disappointed in Desmond right now. That smile was a bad choice. He should have looked a bit more pained at the sight of the helicopter even if he was glad for it. He shouldn't be this happy to be right that Charlie had to die. Grrr....

Think how emotional that must be for him. But at this point, he can't bring Charlie back, but he does have the possibility of seeing Penny again. I think the latter is what he's happy about.

The only that bugs me is: Desmond had a premonition that Claire and Aaron would be on that heli--not himself. So.... wtf Des?

Well of course but I would think the events of the Looking Glass not to mention the prior several weeks would still be weighing on him. He doesn't seem to be grieving at all.

He might have been relieved about the whole Charlie thing. And now he can focus on getting back to Penny.

Someone needs to come to Desmond's defense quick or hold me back before I slug him. He sees a helicopter and is all smiles? "Well, now look at that!" He seems to have forgotten what it cost to get it. I think it was pretty out of character after weeks of anguish trying to save Charlie's life, an experience that caused them to bond pretty closely, that he would just get over it and go off in search of answers about his Penny. He left a relationship in ruins to get here and his emotions don't even seem mixed. I had thought Charlie meant more to him than that and that he might have been somewhat traumatized at witnessing his death but I guess I was wrong. So disappointed in Desmond right now. That smile was a bad choice. He should have looked a bit more pained at the sight of the helicopter even if he was glad for it. He shouldn't be this happy to be right that Charlie had to die. Grrr....

Remember though...he told Charlie that his vision showed Claire and the baby getting on a helicopter. He never said anything about himself getting on it.

Desmond may have lied to Charlie. Maybe his vision showed himself getting on the heli. And they never showed us what Des's vision was...he just told us. Whereas before, they always showed his visions.

Of course, the idea of this just adds fuel to the fire burning in you against Des right now...

Maybe he was smiling for the hope he will finally get the answer. Maybe he is thinking that Charlie didn't die in vain. Maybe he is just happy that there is a heli & that means the frieghter isn't the only way back to Penny.
I don't know. Please don't smack him. Charlie gave him a good whap with the oar & maybe his head is still all messed up.

The only that bugs me is: Desmond had a premonition that Claire and Aaron would be on that heli--not himself. So.... wtf Des?

I can only guess that all bets are now off since learning it was not Penny's boat. Maybe Des is checking it out to see if they are still rescuers or if they're bad news. But you're right, I could see him taking off at this point and not looking back and to hell with the fact that Charlie died for Claire and Aaron to be rescued. You would think he would feel a certain sense of obligation to them now to see that Charlie's sacrifice wasn't for nothing. But just as before, he seems to be out for himself again. It's like season three didn't even happen.

i think he just wants answers right now. Not pennys boat, ment Not PENNYS Boat. He must of been like WTF! They are only just taking them to the boat now though, the hele will ocme back and get everyone else.

I agree, PJ! I mean I know there is a lot of stuff going on right now, but there was a huge cost for this helicopter to even be here (Charlie's life). Instead of a smile, I would've prefered mixed emotions or even a look of guilt on his face. I honestly think back at the beach he was grieving over Charlie and feeling some guilt over it, but TPTB chose not to show it for whatever reason.

I think this epi was more about Sayid than any one else; I expect a Des epi will show
more emotion and grief; I think they both want answers right now as to what they
are flying every one to; once they see it is safe then they will go back for their
group a few at a time and have more about how they got that far; at least that is
what I assume will happen.

That's fine, I wasn't expecting much but for sheer continuity sake, if Desmond is onscreen he should seem SAD. If we saw Hurley and Claire walking and sharing a laugh right now it would seem ODD.

They still had Penny's picture, so even of Naomi is lying about being hired by Penny (and we don't completely know that yet) the freighter people are still the strongest link Des has to Penny right now.

That look between Frank and Dan suggests that they do know more about that picture, though. Will be interesting to find out what they're not saying yet...

No way Desmond has not forgotten anything. He has the best interests of both groups of people at heart.He was very angry when he confronted Frank. He is going with Sayid as a way to find out what is going on with this group of people. Of course he wants to see Penny again. He knows these freighter people probably work for Penny's dad. He had a premonition of Clarie and Aaron getting into a Helicopter. Who is saying that there is only one Helicopter? Who is saying that Frank's Helicopter does not return.

Desmond may have lied to Charlie. Maybe his vision showed himself getting on the heli. And they never showed us what Des's vision was...he just told us. Whereas before, they always showed his visions.

Oh man...
Now that's an interesting take on things. It makes perfect sense too -- by telling Charlie he saw Claire and Aaron getting rescued, Charlie was a lot more motivated to give his life. The only problem with this idea is that Desmond tried to take Charlie's place right before he jumped in the water (then Charlie whacked him in the head with an oar). That still might not blow your theory, though. Desmond could have just felt guilty and had a change of heart.

That whole scene of Desmond and Juliet walking up to the group was weird. They seemed awfully happy AND awfully friendly with each other.

Desmond would actually be a good person to go to the boat, along with Sayid. He was in the Royal Navy, he understands boats, he knows about Widmore, he was a Dharma dupe, he has a different set of island experiences than anyone else. Plus, he has paranormal abilities.

I loved Charlie, but I don't think we're supposed to assume Desmond's forgotten his sacrifice... or never cared... or, even, lied. I think the photograph coming back into the story is a strong reason Desmond wants to see just who is on that boat. (Plus, we just don't have the time to show everyone reacting to Charlie. Unrealistic? Yes. Unfortunate? As a Charlie fan, hell yes. But that's how it goes in TV Land.)

Agreed. I think it will come to Des and his conflicted feelings. Right now though he saw an opportunity and he took it. Greiving takes time...theyre going through some hectic stuff right now, a shot at rescue and more. The greiving, I hope, will come later in a future episode when some of the blanks are filled in (and there were so many).

It's going to seem even stranger if he's all happy for three episodes and then suddenly sad somewhere down the line when he gets more screentime. That's just bad writing. Again, all he had to do was look a bit pained over the sight of the helicopter and I would have been satisfied. You would never have known he sent a young man to his death for it.

I'm with everyone else in saying that all Desmond wants right now is answers. I dont think him or Sayid have the intention of leaving the island forever at this point, I think Desmond just wants to know how the heck him and Penny figure into all of this.

And also we have to remember that Desmond's lived in total agony for three years without any contact with Penny. I'm sure he's very sad about Charlie, but at the end of the day love makes us do stupid things and I'm pretty sure Desmond would do anything if it meant getting back to Penny.

You know, sometime when something dramatic happens... emotions are something like a rollercoaster. Take Lex and Tim in Jurassic Park... when they sit at the table with all the cakes and start laughing... it's a relief for them: finally something good happens so they smile.

Desmond is just like that: finally something good. After all, being sad would have been like betraying Charlies memory for it would mean being sad at something someone died for.

Now if it was pain that we could read on his face SOMEONE would have still complained saying "HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY!! SOMEONE HAVE DIED FOR HIM TO BE THERE BLABLABLA" because there's always SOMEONE who can't get over some things.

But then again I guess all excuses are good to talk about good ol' DEAD Charlie and bring him in every single post.

I thought the same about Des smiling but after watching again I think Des and Juliet really want to go home. The sight of the helicopter must have been awesome! We haven't seen much of Des. I think we will see more about his feelings about Charlie. Let's hope.

Ya know, I think this season is looking like it will contain lots more division and strife. Hurley's comments to Sayid when he was 'captured' by Locke's gang was an indication among other things in the first couple episodes. As for Desmond, to think he might have lied about his visions in the end just so that he could get off the island to see Penny is not that much of a stretch. After all, if Charlie was going to die eventually, might Desmond not just say Screw Charlie, he can take one for Team Desmond...and Des gets one step closer to his love. It wouldn't be the first time we saw self-serving actions in the show...there's plenty, but the best example if murderous Michael.

People are savages in perilous situations concerning their own survival. It's a life or death sorta situation. Backstabbing and duplicity amongs our Losties could be a very real possibility in the future (and I dont just mean being out 'the loop').

Just a thought...

I thought the same about Des smiling but after watching again I think Des and Juliet really want to go home. The sight of the helicopter must have been awesome! We haven't seen much of Des. I think we will see more about his feelings about Charlie. Let's hope.

Exactly. Seeing that helicopter for those two especially, is a glorious sight. They have been trapped on that island for years. The helicopter symbolizes freedom, whether that is the ultimate results or not.

As for Charlie, we saw Desmond crying and looking sad throughout the entire premiere. I'm sure he still is grieving in his own way but I don't think we need to see it or have him comment on it constantly. Right now, he wants to know why they have his picture and how they know about Penny at all. He is counting on that fact alone reuniting him with her. He may be sad over Charlie but he only knew him for a couple weeks, while Penny is the love of his life.

I think that Desmond wanted on like Sayid did. They want to know who exactly are on "Not Penny's Boat", before returning to rescue the others. Meaning that if someone on the boat had a connection to Penny, and Penny doesn't about know it - Des needs to know why. I think he looked so happy to see the chopper to make it seem like his only intention is freedom. His vision of Claire and Aaron may still hold true, he never said it had to be the first helicopter to leave that would have them aboard.

Frankly, I didn't notice Des acting out of character but I would imagine he was glad to actually see the helicopter. I need to watch the flying out scene again. I was concentrating on Sayid's expression and really wasn't paying attention to Des all that much. We don't know what he and the rest have been doing while Jack's group was rounding up the freighties and Locke's group was looking for the cabin. It could be that he let himself grieve for a while and then decided to get on with it. He's pretty obsessive so he might be right back to grieving next week after he finds out what, if any, the connection to Penny is.
Or, it could be that he's on overload and is just trying to get through the day and hasn't really been dealing with anything except staying alive.

I'm pretty sure Sayid and Desmond are just on a reconnaissance mission. I was actually happy to see Desmond make an appearance, and I think he's justified in wanting to know why Naomi lied to him and how she was in possession of the picture.

The lack of emoting over Charlie's death by Desmond and (last week) Claire is a continuity error, but personally I didn't even notice it until other people brought it up.

Desmond's desire to be re-united with Penny is stronger than any remorse felt over Charlie's sacrifice.

I thought the whole helicopter thing was weird anyway. I mean I guess I might've missed something but they didn't really explain what they were doing. The 3 of them were just kind of like "Okay lets go." Are they coming back? What is the explanation for going? I just don't get it. :shrug: I'm going to have to rewatch, I guess.

I think this is just bad continuity...much like the Hurley/Libby grief. Through the beginning of S3 Hurley is laughing and joking around the beach. Then his centric ep comes up and suddenly he is mourning for his girlfriend who died.

S1 had very good continuity with character's personal issues being carefully threaded and developed through each episode. So I think fans expect good continuity based on S1, but honestly - character continuity has been a mess since S2 onwards.

I'm sure once Desmond's centric ep comes up we'll see reflections on Charlie and his flashes (which appear to have stopped). These days it seems easier for the writers to lump a character's personal angst into their own episode and in the meantime just have them act however serves the plot best. I miss the care of S1, but...

That whole scene of Desmond and Juliet walking up to the group was weird. They seemed awfully happy AND awfully friendly with each other.

Desmond would actually be a good person to go to the boat, along with Sayid. He was in the Royal Navy, he understands boats, he knows about Widmore, he was a Dharma dupe, he has a different set of island experiences than anyone else. Plus, he has paranormal abilities.

not to mention his impeccable physique.

I just got to see the entire episode (I fell asleep before it started! GAH! ).

The impression I got about why Des was so slap-happy coming over the rise with Juliet was that he saw the helicopter. That up until that moment he didn't quite believe that rescue was possible or that his flash had any bearing on what was going to happen.

So you could look at it as him not mourning Charlie, if you want to. Or you could look it as relief that although he guided Charlie's decision to sacrifice so the group could be rescued, there is a true possibility of rescue at hand now that he sees the helicopter with his own eyes. In a sense it validates his influence on Charlie and Charlie's sacrifice. So he is relieved more than he is 'out of mourning'.

My take with Des over the past few episodes is that he wants to get to the bottom of all of this...he did not want Charlie to die...remember Des tried to go down there (to the looking glass) instead of Charlie and to do it himself - Charlie knocked him out. We don't necessarily know the ORDER of Desmond's flashes...I don't think he lied about Claire & Aaron getting on the chopper...we still have over 40 episodes when this could still transpire. Obviously Desmond wants to know why there are people there eluding to the fact (Naomi at least) that they were sent to find Des by Penny...Naomi brought the picture for that purpose...then Charlie talks to Penny & we come to find out that it was "Not Penny's Boat" Damn straight Des wants to figure out what the hell is going on. I don't see Des as that selfish anymore...he wants off the island & back to Penny - but I don't believe he wants it at the cost of his LOST friends and comrades. He is headed to the freighter for the same reason I assume Sayid is going...to assess the threat & figure out WHO these people are and what their intentions are...I hope this makes sense...I am barely awake. Just like Sayid & Jack always have an end game in sight; so does Desmond. I have faith in that! Last thought here - I don't believe that Sayid & Des intend to be going to the freighter and then home...I would assume they think they are coming back to the island once they have done surveillance & gotten answers...
Cheers,
Sunday

Desmond's desire to be re-united with Penny is stronger than any remorse felt over Charlie's sacrifice.

If that's true than he's not the brutha I thought he was. Trading in another man's life and family for his own is pretty cowardly, IMO. It's no better than what Michael did. Charlie would never have gone down there had Desmond not told him he had to die. And he used Claire and Aaron to convince him. That sounds like something Ben would do.

I think this is just bad continuity...much like the Hurley/Libby grief. Through the beginning of S3 Hurley is laughing and joking around the beach. Then his centric ep comes up and suddenly he is mourning for his girlfriend who died.

S1 had very good continuity with character's personal issues being carefully threaded and developed through each episode. So I think fans expect good continuity based on S1, but honestly - character continuity has been a mess since S2 onwards.

I'm sure once Desmond's centric ep comes up we'll see reflections on Charlie and his flashes (which appear to have stopped). These days it seems easier for the writers to lump a character's personal angst into their own episode and in the meantime just have them act however serves the plot best. I miss the care of S1, but...

I really think this is more the issue Cap. Characters get no development or continuity anymore unless it is their centric ep (or you're Kate).

everyman for himself.....desmond just wants to get back to penny....he doesn't care with who or how.....its the evil side of love...you don't care who you step on to get to the one you love....

It's going to seem even stranger if he's all happy for three episodes
Des looked everything but happy in 1st EPISODE

Everyone forgot that he is on that Island more than 3 years. Most of them isolated in the hatch, few month's completely ALONE

Well of course but I would think the events of the Looking Glass not to mention the prior several weeks would still be weighing on him. He doesn't seem to be grieving at all.

What should he do? Cry and say "Waaah Wahh, poor Charlie died, WOE is me."

No, he should be relieved that they might finally be getting off the island.

Remember, Des was going to LET Charlie die so he could get off the island...now, all of a sudden you think he should be crying because Charlie died? THAT would be out of character.

-- J

And I would like to know, why the 1st person Charlie saw was Penny. Did she want to connect the Island or whatever?

Don't you think Desmond wants to know that either?

And I would like to know, why the 1st person Charlie saw was Penny. Did she want to connect the Island or whatever?

Don't you think Desmond wants to know that either?

Has Desmond actually told anyone that Charlie spoke to Penny via the LG communications? I don't think he has. Hurley just said "Charlie must of heard something..." rather than "Penny must have told him." So I think Desmond is being tight-lipped about Charlie speaking to Penny. Don't ask me why.

Remember, Des was going to LET Charlie die so he could get off the island...now, all of a sudden you think he should be crying because Charlie died? THAT would be out of character.

This is true I suppose. Desmond accepted Charlie's death as a necessary evil and assisted him on the path to his doom. It would be two-faced for Desmond to suddenly regret Charlie's death after he showed he was prepared to let it happen. However I'm a little disappointed that Desmond's main concern is his own rescue and seeing Penny, rather than seeing that Claire and Aaron are rescued. If he couldn't save Charlie then Desmond should at least be concerned about his dying cause being fulfilled. I don't like the idea of Desmond just being out for himself.

To be fair, it would be pretty irresponsible of the group to stick a woman with an infant on a helicopter (which has already nearly crashed once) to go onto a boat with a bunch of people who may or may not be there to kill them.

The boat has contact with the Island so once Sayid and Des make sure the coat is clear, they can radio back and the rescue mission can get under way.

I believe that Desmond has been mourning for Charlie (and still is), but at the same time, he has spent the last 3+ years on this island just thinking of getting home and seeing Penny again. Most of that time, he spent alone, stuck in a hatch, pressing a button. I'm sure he's glad he's had the Losties around, but at the end of the day, they have no idea what it's been like to be trapped on that island completely alone for all that time. Of course, he's happy at the prospect of getting home.

I'm hoping we see a Desmond centric episode which tells what he was thinking at that moment or before that moment. I was also surprised to see him come out laughing and talking with Juliet. Something had to have happened to change his mind so strongly and get on the helicopter and Im hoping we find out soon. This is a great subject pacejunkie.

Has Desmond actually told anyone that Charlie spoke to Penny via the LG communications? I don't think he has. Hurley just said "Charlie must of heard something..." rather than "Penny must have told him." So I think Desmond is being tight-lipped about Charlie speaking to Penny. Don't ask me why.
We don't know what he said and what he does not said, just because TPTB has been wasting a lots of time showing Kate's flirt with Jack or Sawyer:mad:

Most of that time, he spent alone, stuck in a hatch, pressing a button. I'm sure he's glad he's had the Losties around, but at the end of the day, they have no idea what it's been like to be trapped on that island completely alone for all that time

WELL said!

I thought the whole helicopter thing was weird anyway. I mean I guess I might've missed something but they didn't really explain what they were doing. The 3 of them were just kind of like "Okay lets go." Are they coming back? What is the explanation for going? I just don't get it. :shrug: I'm going to have to rewatch, I guess.

This is the problem I'm having with the episode also. I mean, I just don't get it. Wasn't Sayid all insistant at the very beginning about getting Naomi out of there? Then when the helicopter was about to take off he asks to take her at the last minute, like it was never brought up before? Wasn't that something that he insisted on at the beginning? Maybe I'm confused. I just don't know why Desmond was on there rather than anyone else. Why him after it was made clear it's not Penny's boat?

I expected a lot more reaction from Desmond regarding Charlie also. He was tormented for how long with his visions, trying to prevent Charlie from dying, and then he had to stand there and witness him die. He should still be a mess right now.
Maybe I just need to rewatch because I missed some things? I hope.

I agree with those who say that character continuity from episode to episode is not what it was in season one. That said, I guess there are some reasons Desmond might be portrayed as smiling as he approaches the helicopter:

--to plant doubts in our minds about whether Des is, in fact, just out for himself. TPTB like to keep the viewers guessing.

_because he's glad he's finally going to get some answers about why Naomi had the picture of him and Penny (and perhaps also why Penny was on that video screen in TLG). He did seem pretty angry when he asked Frank about it.

_because he had already resigned himself to Charlie's death, and in fact tried to help Charlie at the end, but is now at least glad to see that Charlie did not die in vain and they may have a chance for escape.

I vacillate among all these possibilities.

remember when Locke did his sweat lodge magical mushroom trip and Boone took him on a wheelchair tour of the airport.. .. what was his comment regarding Desmond... something like" Dont worry about him... he is taking care of himself..." not too far fetched to believe ol' Desmondo is just a selfish POS. and just as the previous poster said... We never saw the flash sequence as we did in previous situations like when poor Charley was impaled with an arrow .....

Someone needs to come to Desmond's defense quick or hold me back before I slug him. He sees a helicopter and is all smiles? "Well, now look at that!" He seems to have forgotten what it cost to get it. I think it was pretty out of character after weeks of anguish trying to save Charlie's life, an experience that caused them to bond pretty closely, that he would just get over it and go off in search of answers about his Penny. He left a relationship in ruins to get here and his emotions don't even seem mixed. I had thought Charlie meant more to him than that and that he might have been somewhat traumatized at witnessing his death but I guess I was wrong. So disappointed in Desmond right now. That smile was a bad choice. He should have looked a bit more pained at the sight of the helicopter even if he was glad for it. He shouldn't be this happy to be right that Charlie had to die. Grrr....

Whoaaaa!!! Are you expecting an entire episode of people crying over
Charlie?! He's been trapped on the island for over 3 years. I'd be all
smiles too if a helicopter that I envisioned landed on an invisible island,
in which someone was carrying a picture of the woman I loved. Mourning
Charlie's death isn't gonna move the story line along, in fact it would
slow it down to a halt. I'm happy with the answers and storyline we have
been given in this past 3 episodes, granted it poses more questions and
speculations. I wouldn't give that up for an hour of crying over Charlie.
Theres time for mourning if and when they survive all of this.
:woohoo: <---- how Desmond should have acted

Whoaaaa!!! Are you expecting an entire episode of people crying over
Charlie?! He's been trapped on the island for over 3 years. I'd be all
smiles too if a helicopter that I envisioned landed on an invisible island,
in which someone was carrying a picture of the woman I loved. Mourning
Charlie's death isn't gonna move the story line along, in fact it would
slow it down to a halt. I'm happy with the answers and storyline we have
been given in this past 3 episodes, granted it poses more questions and
speculations. I wouldn't give that up for an hour of crying over Charlie.
Theres time for mourning if and when they survive all of this.
:woohoo: <---- how Desmond should have acted

But don't you think that Charlie's final message would at least give Des pause?

I agree that Desmond has been waiting a loooooong time for rescue, as well as wanting answers to how they got the picture of him. Let's face it--no one should have a copy of that picture except for Des and Penny, so how did Naomi get it??????

I got to say I was more annoyed by Sayid preaching to Miles - "Aren't you upset about Naomi? Because you don't seem very affected by her death. So much for friendship..."

I just found that line painfully ironic considering that one of their friends has just been killed and the Lostees don't seem very affected by it either. It seemed so hypocritical.

I'd say after Charlie dying for the sake of getting that helicopter there, he should be pretty relieved, if not overjoyed to see that it actually worked, and that he hadn't convinced Charlie to give up his life for nothing. I think a smile is more than in order.

But don't you think that Charlie's final message would at least give Des pause?
Possibly.. the picture of Penny is what is motivating him right now. Why? What? Where? etc.
Not poor Charlie!

Whoaaaa!!! Are you expecting an entire episode of people crying over
Charlie?! He's been trapped on the island for over 3 years. I'd be all
smiles too if a helicopter that I envisioned landed on an invisible island,
in which someone was carrying a picture of the woman I loved. Mourning
Charlie's death isn't gonna move the story line along, in fact it would
slow it down to a halt. I'm happy with the answers and storyline we have
been given in this past 3 episodes, granted it poses more questions and
speculations. I wouldn't give that up for an hour of crying over Charlie.
Theres time for mourning if and when they survive all of this.
:woohoo: <---- how Desmond should have acted

Thank you Electromagnetic Anomoly! Gees, calm down on the Des hate. He didn't 'send Charlie to his death', Charlie's death was cast in stone. Des saved him time and again, starting with when he was expecting to sacrifice himself to save all of them when he turned the failsafe key. Des and Charlie didn't have a relationship like Hurley and Charlie did, I think they only started talking when Des started saving Charlie's life (over and over again). He even tried to break the glass to get him out of the room filling up with water, but Charlie locked him out to save him. He was upset about Charlie, but there's work to be done.
Homey was stuck on that island for 3 years, the last 2+ months of which he was pushing a button every 108 minutes. He should be down right giddy to see a way off the island.
If anything, Claire's the one who doesn't seem as busted up as she should.
Don't be hating on Des, he's a good man!

I agree the exchange between Juliette and Desmond seemed out of place, however if that had been me (in Desmond's spot) - I think I would have reacted the same way! Charlie's death is not foresaken if people get on the heli! Just because it is not Penny's boat - doesn't mean it isnt a chance for Desmond to find her again! I would do the same thing!

Was Desmond's visions of the future only Charlie-centered? (I can't remember) Why did he not know this wasn't Penny's boat? (Sorry if this was discussed somewhere else - haven't seen it)

I just can't understand why Des got on that helicopter. He knew that the boat was not Penny's. Well, I guess Charlie's message that the boat was not Penny's does not mean that the boat is dangerous.

I'm really bummed about the prospect of no more Desmond on island. Him and his future flashes are my favorite things!:frown:

He knew that the boat was not Penny's.
But he wants to know who's this boat and why naomi had picture of him with Penny

I think that every character in Lost goes through a love 'em, hate 'em phase. I think they spent last season getting everyone to love good intentions Des...Now they are going to show that good intentions Des didn't have such good intent. I just hope when Desmond becomes a "bad guy" that I can tune in to see how many of you are completely hurt and dumbfounded. And I will laugh.

Well aren't you the charming one?

Oh geez. I was a really huge Chesmond fan. Heck, I still am! But I can totally understand his smile. Have you seen Kate's, Jack's faces when they saw the heli in the last eppy? They've only been on the island for 3 months. Des was there for 3 years, underground, bullied by an ex CIA and pushing a darn button, with no sunshine, with nothing else to do but listening to Mama Cass! OMG, try doing that for one month stay sane!

He will always carry the image of Charlie dying in front of him. One more thing to give him the sensation that he is a coward... one more failure. But now he has things to do. Many people were outraged when he stayed with Jack. Well, if it was you, wouldn't you want to know who sent Naomi after you and why?

Besides. They sent for him, Sayid wanted him on his side in that helicopter. They have a mission. And they haven't arrived to the boat yet.

But he wants to know who's this boat and why naomi had picture of him with Penny

He's definitely motivated by finding answers but as to what may be going on in his mind about Charlie who knows. I really don't think that someone who tried to fight to save someone so hard is just going to forget about him so easily.

Des's scenes last night were just for getting him on the helicopter, I don't think much thought was put into "character" at that point. Perhaps his grief will be dealt with later -- who knows we may even have another "haunting" by Charlie. Especially if Charlie is supposed to show up on the island in any future eppy's like Walt, because when Hurley talked with Charlie I got the feeling it was the first time he had actually seen him since his death because he said (something to the effect) - "You're dead. I'm not talking to a dead person".

To me at least it sounded like it was the first time - but that doesn't mean others on the island might not have seen him before that -- who knows maybe Claire will see him.

I just don't think Des was given enough screen time to deal Charlie's death yet so I'll reserve my opinion for later, however if there is no dealing whatsoever I think the writers made a mistake -- surely he's got to be feeling guilty.

Actually I was a little more disappointed with the answer that was given as to why the two groups split -- that some thought the freighties were there to rescue and other thought they were there to kill. No mention whatsoever about a warning from Charlie that the freighties weren't who they said they were. My hope is that they aren't just trying to erase his memory so they can move on.

Actually I was a little more disappointed with the answer that was given as to why the two groups split -- that some thought the freighties were there to rescue and other thought they were there to kill. No mention whatsoever about a warning from Charlie that the freighties weren't who they said they were. My hope is that they aren't just trying to erase his memory so they can move on.

Sayid is not going to give Miles any more information than is absolutely necessary. He's not going to tell him about the warning from Charlie.

Actually I was a little more disappointed with the answer that was given as to why the two groups split -- that some thought the freighties were there to rescue and other thought they were there to kill. No mention whatsoever about a warning from Charlie that the freighties weren't who they said they were. My hope is that they aren't just trying to erase his memory so they can move on.

That answer was for Miles' benefit and I think it was presented the way it was so Miles wasn't given too much information. It was a quick short answer that Miles would buy. Sayid had no reason to tell him everything they know.

Sayid is not going to give Miles any more information than is absolutely necessary. He's not going to tell him about the warning from Charlie.

Which reminds me. How much they actually know about the warning? From Hurley's speech in the first ep I concluded that Des didn't say anything about how Charlie got his knowledge ("he must have heard something" those were his words, no mention at all that he actually talked to Penny herself). Now, Des didn't see her on that screen? I remember him running to the door and shouting <Penny> when Charlie closed it... and he was pretty darn mad because at first he didn't realise why Charlie locked him out.

So, what do they know about the message?

When I rewatched the episode this morning, I paid particular attention to the Des and Juliet scene as well as when he's on the helicopter. For one thing, who knows what Juliet said right before they came into the clearing? No one and so we have no reference to why he was chuckling. Even in extreme grief, we can most of the time get humor. I know this first hand and can testify that one minute you think you will never smile again and, the next, something goofy or stupid happens or is said, you are able to make a little chuckle. So, he wasn't laughing it up like every day's a great day and he's so happy to be alive.
Then, we come to him getting on the helicopter. He's very serious in these shots and is looking straight ahead. Not eagerly, like you would when you're looking forward to something but looking down at that instruments or straight ahead like you're doing something you feel you need to do. I think he was going with Sayid to the boat so that he could find out how they had a pic of him and Penny whom they deny knowing! (I think they're lying and that they know her by another name but that's another thread in another time...;) ) I don't believe, given Des' behavior in the first epi and his behavior aboard the chopper, he has forgotten Charlie's sacrifice at all. I think he wants answers and is trying to get them in the most straightforward way he can think of.
As for the smile when he saw the chopper - 3 years and 3 months on the Island. It's a sight he never thought he would really ever get to see even if he is leary about the motives of those who are flying it.

That answer was for Miles' benefit and I think it was presented the way it was so Miles wasn't given too much information. It was a quick short answer that Miles would buy. Sayid had no reason to tell him everything they know.

I was not referring to the reason it might or might not have been presented by the character but the reason's behind why the writer's might have chosen to present it that way.That they may be pressing past the memory of the character of Charlie by simply dropping any mention of him. It isn't like they haven't done it before.

Which reminds me. How much they actually know about the warning? From Hurley's speech in the first ep I concluded that Des didn't say anything about how Charlie got his knowledge ("he must have heard something" those were his words, no mention at all that he actually talked to Penny herself). Now, Des didn't see her on that screen? I remember him running to the door and shouting <Penny> when Charlie closed it... and he was pretty darn mad because at first he didn't realise why Charlie locked him out.

So, what do they know about the message?

I think Desmond did tell the losties at the beach when he came ashore about what Charlie, did, writing on his hand, didn't he? I can't recall. I doubt he said anything about the fact that is was Penny who conveyed the info that it wasn't her boat.

And I also don't know if he got a glimpse of Penny on the video screen in TLG or just heard her voice before Charlie slammed the door. He did know it was Penny, though, I think.

And I also don't know if he got a glimpse of Penny on the video screen in TLG or just heard her voice before Charlie slammed the door. He did know it was Penny, though, I think.

mmpd, He did hear her and then saw a fleeting pic before the water got to the monitor. I'm sure that's a pretty haunting moment as well.

I'm sort of at peace with the fact that the Lostees aren't wandering around crying and depressed over Charlie's death. Two reasons for this -

1) Desmond knew Charlie was going to die and the rest of the Lostees knew he was going on a suicide mission. Only Hurley and Claire were naive enough to think Charlie would be fine (but even they knew about the flashes). So it would have been insincere of them all to wail in grief over Charlie's death when they clearly thought he was an acceptable sacrifice.

2) Charlie himself didn't want a big fuss over his death. He slipped away quietly. He tried his best not to cause Hurley and Claire any upset. In some ways I think that it would have been interesting if Charlie's sacrifice had a profound emotional effect on the group. But Damon has said he thinks there is no greater hero in storytelling than the unappreciated hero. So I think that's what they wanted Charlie to be. The only people who really appreciate him and mourn him are the fans.

HOWEVER while I don't expect floods of tears and endless depression over Charlie I really wish they would find time to have a memorial service for him. For one thing Charlie was a Christian man and while he cannot be given a proper burial there could still be prayers said for him. There was time to say prayers for Naomi. Charlie deserves something.

I was not referring to the reason it might or might not have been presented by the character but the reason's behind why the writer's might have chosen to present it that way.That they may be pressing past the memory of the character of Charlie by simply dropping any mention of him. It isn't like they haven't done it before.

I worry about this too, Mich. Damon said in his post-S3 that Charlie's presence would continue to be felt in the show, but after ep1 I don't only feel Charlie's absence. Not only is he not physically there, but nobody is talking about him or even acting like one of their friends has just died.

Mind you they seem to have forgotten the existence of Sun and Jin too.:rolleyes:

Mind you they seem to have forgotten the existence of Sun and Jin too.:rolleyes:

Yeah, I haven't seen anything in two episodes to indicate just where in the world Sun and Jin are either, Capt. F.

One of the biggest problems in the narrative of this show or any show that has not only character development but is also action packed is that the characters development gets shoved to the side while they're dealing with the action. 24 and, to some extent, Heroes suffers from this as well. In the narrative, they're still dealing with this threat/salvation and there hasn't been time to reflect and deal with Charlie and his sacrifice. Claire's just putting one foot in front of the other, like an automaton, which is how you would act if you were in her shoes and had lost someone you loved but were also trying your best to stay alive as well as taking care of your child who needs you. People have been criticizing the continuity of the show because of her reactions as well as Desmond's reactions. I think this shows a fundamental misunderstanding about how a lot of people deal with loss when they themselves are in the middle of a crisis. In this situation, it's only been a day since Charlie died and Hurley saved the beachies. All of them, however they're handling it, are in SURVIVAL mode - not we have nothing to do but wash clothes and play ping pong mode. When they were in ping pong mode, there was time to memorialise those who died. There's not time now. I think this is also what happens in war. Soldiers do not have time to mourn their dead or memorialize them. That happens after the crisis so maybe that's what the narrative in these episodes are trying to convey. As always, that's my word :twocents:

What a tempest in a teapot, people. So, Desmond sees the helicopter, smiles for a moment and all of a sudden he's "happy" and out of character? And what about the interaction with Frank the pilot? Angry and craving for answers. He wanted to know if they were somehow connected with Mr Widmore, and Frank and Daniel attitude was very suspicious, so he doesn't trust them and wants to go on the helicopter, and on the boat, to find out what is really happening, whether his visions were right, and whether Charlie died in vain or not.

Perhaps at the moment Charlie seems forgotten by the other Losties, but we're only 3 episiodes in, and considering how things have been moving on so far, I expect many surprises in this season. After 3 seasons and 3 episodes, when I find some character's behaviour to appear a bit odd, I try to imagine myself in the situation. And from what I've seen so far, the situation at hand needs little time to stop and mourn: new people have come to the island; their agenda is far from being clear ("We want Ben Linus" said Miles. Why, to quesiton him, to kill him, to take him away? Who knows. In this episode he said they need to "locate him". And? Many questions remain unanswered); they may be a serious threat; things are moving and everyone has to be alert and focused on what's happening now. Perhaps in a few episodes there'll be a moment of peace and quiet, some dialogue with Claire or Hurley or Desmond, some melancholic pause when one says "I wish Charlie could be here". But not just now.

My 2 cents, of course.

Cheers
Rick

What a tempest in a teapot, people. So, Desmond sees the helicopter, smiles for a moment and all of a sudden he's "happy" and out of character? And what about the interaction with Frank the pilot? Angry and craving for answers. He wanted to know if they were somehow connected with Mr Widmore, and Frank and Daniel attitude was very suspicious, so he doesn't trust them and wants to go on the helicopter, and on the boat, to find out what is really happening, whether his visions were right, and whether Charlie died in vain or not.

Perhaps at the moment Charlie seems forgotten by the other Losties, but we're only 3 episiodes in, and considering how things have been moving on so far, I expect many surprises in this season. After 3 seasons and 3 episodes, when I find some character's behaviour to appear a bit odd, I try to imagine myself in the situation. And from what I've seen so far, the situation at hand needs little time to stop and mourn: new people have come to the island; their agenda is far from being clear ("We want Ben Linus" said Miles. Why, to quesiton him, to kill him, to take him away? Who knows. In this episode he said they need to "locate him". And? Many questions remain unanswered); they may be a serious threat; things are moving and everyone has to be alert and focused on what's happening now. Perhaps in a few episodes there'll be a moment of peace and quiet, some dialogue with Claire or Hurley or Desmond, some melancholic pause when one says "I wish Charlie could be here". But not just now.

My 2 cents, of course.

Cheers
Rick

Well said, Rick. We all have our favorite characters, and wouldn't it be wonderful if that favorite character got more face time, more talk, etc.? But the brutal fact is LOST has tons of characters and story to fit in one hour. It grieves me that my favorite character has only been seen a few times and given a few lines, but I'm not going to throw a fit over it. It is what it is. I would LOVE to see/know Des' real reaction to Charlie's death but I also accept the fact that we probably never will just because of the reality of the show.

To be fair, it would be pretty irresponsible of the group to stick a woman with an infant on a helicopter (which has already nearly crashed once) to go onto a boat with a bunch of people who may or may not be there to kill them.

The boat has contact with the Island so once Sayid and Des make sure the coat is clear, they can radio back and the rescue mission can get under way.

I believe that Desmond has been mourning for Charlie (and still is), but at the same time, he has spent the last 3+ years on this island just thinking of getting home and seeing Penny again. Most of that time, he spent alone, stuck in a hatch, pressing a button. I'm sure he's glad he's had the Losties around, but at the end of the day, they have no idea what it's been like to be trapped on that island completely alone for all that time. Of course, he's happy at the prospect of getting home.

Good post and I agree. When I first posted in this thread, I was thinking WTF Desmond. But now I'm thinking, it doesn't make sense for them to get Claire and Aaron and put them on the heli first. PLUS, Des was sent for. And he wouldn't be like "No, we have to send Claire and Aaron, even thought we have no idea who the people on the freighter are and if they are dangerous." He did see Penny on the screen, and I believe that he very much trusts what Charlie wrote on his hand--therefore, he needs to find out why Naomi has that pic of him and Penny together. He needs to find out if these people really are bad news and what the Penny connection is. Yes, he needs to know for himself. But he is helping all of the Losties, including Claire and Aaron.

And lastly I would say that, like usual, there just isn't enough time in each episode for enough emotional reaction and enough character development. It's been a problem for ages on the show. We all know it. And I think TPTB probably feel like they showed Des grieving already this season and they don't have time right now to show more of it.


I just found that line painfully ironic considering that one of their friends has just been killed and the Lostees don't seem very affected by it either. It seemed so hypocritical.

They have lost so many friends in such a short amount of time. And they are in constant life or death situations. Unfortunately, right now, they can't take a big pause and grieve over Charlie. And they don't have a body to have a funeral for. But I have a feeling, and I hope, that they will have some kind of ceremony soon, as soon as the action dies down a little.

Yeah, I'd assume a time would come when you'd get kind of numb to all the loses too. :(

It's REALLY been bothering me that Desmond doesn't seem to care at all. I mean, yeah...I get that he wants to go back and find Penny. But he knows that Charlie spent the last few seconds of his life warning him that it wasn't Penny's boat anyway, and therefore Naomi was lying.

You think he'd be a lot more weary of the freighters, and a LOT more remorseful that Charlie took his word that Claire and Aaron would be saved, and now they may not be anyway.